I just got into Necromunda at their new release and I must say I like the game. As far as the Delaque go, their old models were very Matrix nice but very Matrix. These new models seem to hit a more modern cult movie appeal. I like it. I think it stands out from the other chaos cults or genestealer cults and are more uniform and not so rag tag. I am looking forward to picking up these models when? they become available.
KT is a lot more balance than Necromunda, mainly the point limit prevent snowballing/old team crushing new team in a campaign. Dying in a campaign is less punishing and you do not have to worry about funding to recruit member/buying equipment.
Necromunda is not meant to be a competitive game, lots of randomness involve, like the scenario and random deployment. Every group can have their own houserule, it also need a good Arbitrator/GM to keep the campaign going and the game fair.
I just got into Necromunda at their new release and I must say I like the game. As far as the Delaque go, their old models were very Matrix nice but very Matrix.
Except that the originals predate The Matrix by about 3 or 4 years. These new ones clearly borrow from Dark City, which they also predated.
The originals didn't have any of the inhuman feel to them that these new ones do; and with the studio paint jobs being in brown dusters, any comparison of the originals to the Matrix or Dark City was rather tenuous. Apart from the shirtlessness, the old models have more of a western or 20s gangster vibe to them.
Baxx wrote: It's funny seeing the various responses and the range between them, some saying these are awful or not having any characteristic of Delaque, other saying these are awesome and spot on.
I think they're awesome. I just don't think they're Delaque minis.
I think they could have been awesome, but for a few problems. The gun bits that scale randomly between 150% and 300% (often on the same gun), for example.
I just have no idea why they were used here, instead of a Delaque gang.
Juves are around but they don't really have a specific iconic model as yet; the kits are pretty easy to make up as juves though; just give them basic heads and weapons. However its one thing many hope we might see added to the range as time goes on - esp now that GW has released the core houses.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: My big question is whether or not this is it for plastics.
Anyone heard whispers whether there is anything past the original 6?
Enforcers, Pit Slaves, Redemptionists (maybe not needed after the new Cawdor), scavies, ratskins... any chance of any of them coming in plastic?
That would be the "season 2" of this game. Same as Blood Bowl season 2 when they get the Elves. Assuming this game making enough profit to get the seal of approval.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Enforcers, Pit Slaves, ... ... , scavies, ratskins... any chance of any of them coming in plastic?
In plastic? Remains to be seen.
They're doing Enforcers, they've said as much. When, where or how is anyone's guess.
If they do do "the next 6" (Ratskins, Scavvies, Pit Slaves, Enforcers, Reds, Spyrers) I'd expect Enforcers or Scavvies first. A plastic Spyrer kit would be ace, but given the low model count they might be cosigned to resin hell.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Redemptionists (maybe not needed after the new Cawdor)
You take that back!!!
And they've been quite clear that Cawdor and the Reds are different, and will continue to be different.
I don’t play Necromunda (never have done either), but, I was at B&G this weekend and saw the models in person. They looked absolutely incredible. Seriously incredible.
Erm, I’d probably say Guardsmen size but not as wide across the shoulders/arms as they aren’t bulked out by the pads and lasgun poses. That’s going off instinct and memory though, as I didn’t even think about comparing them to other models outside of their painted appearance.
Kdash wrote: I don’t play Necromunda (never have done either), but, I was at B&G this weekend and saw the models in person. They looked absolutely incredible. Seriously incredible.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Enforcers, Pit Slaves, ... ... , scavies, ratskins... any chance of any of them coming in plastic?
In plastic? Remains to be seen.
They're doing Enforcers, they've said as much. When, where or how is anyone's guess.
If they do do "the next 6" (Ratskins, Scavvies, Pit Slaves, Enforcers, Reds, Spyrers) I'd expect Enforcers or Scavvies first. A plastic Spyrer kit would be ace, but given the low model count they might be cosigned to resin hell.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Redemptionists (maybe not needed after the new Cawdor)
You take that back!!!
And they've been quite clear that Cawdor and the Reds are different, and will continue to be different.
They've also suggested that Spyrers might become an "environmental hazard" of one model, rather than a player gang. With any luck we'll see brat gangs making a return instead. If the upper spire inhabitants (where the Brat gangs come from) are the 1%, then the Spyrers are the upper crust of that society; the 1% of the 1%, as it were.
For example, the D'Arquebus family were mid-level functionaries for an upper-spire Noble House, and Lexandro D'arquebus was a fairly well-respected member of the Lordly Phantasms brat gang. A Spyrer, by comparison, would be a direct member of House Ran Lo, Catullus, etc. The guy that Belladonna was supposed to marry probably had a Spyrer rig in his wardrobe.
I'm sticking with the "Brats should be the gang, Spyrer rigs should be 'endgame' equipment they can buy" view, but Brats as the gang and Spyrers as "hazards" would be cool as well. Anything that doesn't involve actual Spyrer gangs.
Yodhrin wrote: I'm sticking with the "Brats should be the gang, Spyrer rigs should be 'endgame' equipment they can buy" view, but Brats as the gang and Spyrers as "hazards" would be cool as well. Anything that doesn't involve actual Spyrer gangs.
This! Absolutely this.
Sadly, that's based on my experience of Spyrers tending to draw the sort of player you wouldn't necessarily want in a narrative campaign. The gang itself also just doesn't do much outside of break faces with ease. Very little post-battle sequence for them.
Give us better armed Brat Gangs that can build up to be Spyrers? Yes!
Even in the lore Spyrers are utterly broken when encountering Gangs. You'd be throwing down two or three gangs against one enemy model in order to beat many of them - esp since in the game you're hard-restricted on what tricks you can pull.
Brats on the other hand would be the classic all gear no idea faction - high value high quality gear, but with low stats and thus a higher chance of failing. Sure in the lore many are pretty well trained, but its nearly always shown that for all their training they are inexperienced in gang style warfare of the Underhive.
Always found that Necromunda camapigns worked best when run by a GM as a narrative experience and as part of that gangs like spyers and enforcers should be run and used by the GM for narrative purposes only and not available to players.
It could go either way - Guilders in the lore certainly tend to err more on the side of hiring gangs (then hiring the gang's rival for more profit and to pit gangs against each other to weaken them).
They are not "as" powerful as Upper Spyer Nobels who have money and access to the best of the best, indeed guilders can vary and be armed with not vastly better gear than Underhivers.
They could be a basic mercenary force or could be forces unto their own - although I'd hope that the main focus remains the gangs.
Overread wrote: Even in the lore Spyrers are utterly broken when encountering Gangs. You'd be throwing down two or three gangs against one enemy model in order to beat many of them - esp since in the game you're hard-restricted on what tricks you can pull.
Brats on the other hand would be the classic all gear no idea faction - high value high quality gear, but with low stats and thus a higher chance of failing. Sure in the lore many are pretty well trained, but its nearly always shown that for all their training they are inexperienced in gang style warfare of the Underhive.
AH mentioned Brat gangs and their Jetbikes on twitch as something that they'd like to do after the Outlander gangs were done
Yodhrin wrote: I'm sticking with the "Brats should be the gang, Spyrer rigs should be 'endgame' equipment they can buy" view, but Brats as the gang and Spyrers as "hazards" would be cool as well. Anything that doesn't involve actual Spyrer gangs.
I believe it was discussed on the last Necromunda show on Warhammer TV, but the gist of it as explained to me by Owen barnes at the FW/Necro open day was that Spyrers should be so powerful and impressive that a game against them is one of survival; as such, letting one player control one is a little unfair. Instead, it'd be some sort of thing that would appear during a game between two gangs; like the rogue cyborg scenario from GW4. Two gangs fighting over some jusnk when the Predator turns up, basically.
As well as the Underhive zones represented by the Zone Mortalis tiles and the lower areas of Hive City represented by the Sector Mechanicus scenery, you could have a good low-Spire campaign using the new Sector Imperialis terrain or similar, and everyone plays Brat gangs. Or out in the wastes with Orlock mining convoys, Cawdor scavenger patrols, Escher harvesting teams, etc. Kitbash vehicles from the Goliath truck, the Ork buggies, Adeptus Mechanicus walkers, Sentinels, etc. Four distinct environment zones, and then there's the space station.
Delaque is the only gang I truly anticipated. I have mixed feelings about the redesign. It looks gorgeous. But I will miss the matrix/riddik look. The look less like a gang and more like a cult, which is something I’m not sure I’m completely happy with. Makes them more unique but less “delaque” I guess
They are conversion bliss now though
Overread wrote: Even in the lore Spyrers are utterly broken when encountering Gangs. You'd be throwing down two or three gangs against one enemy model in order to beat many of them - esp since in the game you're hard-restricted on what tricks you can pull.
I like the dissonance here - thread in which a lot of people said a gang can take on space marines (even though a few malnourished hobos with rusty pipes can give them equal fight...) is now making spyrers into some unbeatable boogeymen (even though a single Astartes should be able to tear all but most experienced spyrers apart with trivial ease...) despite the fact they are just regular humans, and a lot of spyrer gear and tactics are pretty stupid. Take the dual power fist or lighting claw suits - really? You want to close into melee range with foes wielding plasma guns and melta weaponry? Unless these suits are somehow laughably more durable than things like Terminators, Canoptek Wraiths, Meganobz, Wraithguard and other things regularly dying to them in 40K, or unless Necromundan meltagun is so bad it would be S4 in 40K, the very first fight of such spyrer with a veteran gang would result in gang leader or heavy trying on pretty spiffy new suit with a few patched up holes...
Conversely, I really hope GW makes scenario featuring SM hunting for candidates in the underhive with appropriately absurd stats (like every single one being rerollable 2+) to drive home just how difficult a fight with someone with reflexes far beyond best humans would be, someone who doesn't know fear, doesn't tire, knows his weapon perfectly and can hit smallest opening with perfect accuracy, someone with battle plate that laughs at everything but your biggest guns and warns him about ambushes, someone who faced enemies far more dangerous than you will ever be hundreds of times and triumphed.
Yup, that sure sounds like equivalent of fighting a few hobos who didn't eat whole week and are lit by candles everywhere to make a better target, hobos who can nevertheless still beat your ass
I know what is off about these Delaque, the choice of paint scheme. Sure they are sneaky backstabbing baldies. But the original delaque had a beige/brown trench coat as the colour scheme not black.
I'd be interested to see them painted up in there proper style not this neo-matrix/dark city cenobite look.
I like the dissonance here - thread in which a lot of people said a gang can take on space marines (even though a few malnourished hobos with rusty pipes can give them equal fight...) is now making spyrers into some unbeatable boogeymen (even though a single Astartes should be able to tear all but most experienced spyrers apart with trivial ease...) despite the fact they are just regular humans, and a lot of spyrer gear and tactics are pretty stupid. Take the dual power fist or lighting claw suits - really? You want to close into melee range with foes wielding plasma guns and melta weaponry? Unless these suits are somehow laughably more durable than things like Terminators, Canoptek Wraiths, Meganobz, Wraithguard and other things regularly dying to them in 40K, or unless Necromundan meltagun is so bad it would be S4 in 40K, the very first fight of such spyrer with a veteran gang would result in gang leader or heavy trying on pretty spiffy new suit with a few patched up holes...
Orrus have force fields as well as bolt weapons buiult into their fists. Malcadon are spiders, they ambush, trap and immobilize with webbing, descend from the rafters upon unsuspecting prey.
Irbis wrote: Yup, that sure sounds like equivalent of fighting a few hobos who didn't eat whole week and are lit by candles everywhere to make a better target, hobos who can nevertheless still beat your ass
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: @Irbis OK, silencers make more sense. But the weapons still look too clumsy for the models to me. Like Dark Eldar with Ork weapons.
DE was my first thought upon seeing these too. They have nice techy human guns, but gaunt, spindly dudes with daggers. Old Delaque were thench coat gangsters, these guys have robes.
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: @Irbis OK, silencers make more sense. But the weapons still look too clumsy for the models to me. Like Dark Eldar with Ork weapons.
DE was my first thought upon seeing these too. They have nice techy human guns, but gaunt, spindly dudes with daggers. Old Delaque were thench coat gangsters, these guys have robes.
These guys are wearing trench coats as well, they’re just keeping them buttoned up instead of the more usual open style you see.
And they have armoured colours and rebreathers built into the coat. And big armoured belt buckles.
No one is saying you can't like them, but can we not try to make it out as if they're the same as the be-goggled trench-coat gangers that Delaques are?
H.B.M.C. wrote: And they have armoured colours and rebreathers built into the coat. And big armoured belt buckles.
No one is saying you can't like them, but can we not try to make it out as if they're the same as the be-goggled trench-coat gangers that Delaques are?
Nobody's pretending they're literally the same as the old models, most of us just don't agree that they're some egregious additional level of different from the old concept compared to the other modern gangs. I liked the old gangers fine, but their theme was a bit naff compared to most of the other gangs and to their own background material - I'd have preferred the new models be a bit less inhumanly tall, but Dark City-meets-Lynch's Dune is a lot more thematic than a whole gang of Neo & Riddick's illegitimate love children.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And they have armoured colours and rebreathers built into the coat. And big armoured belt buckles.
No one is saying you can't like them, but can we not try to make it out as if they're the same as the be-goggled trench-coat gangers that Delaques are?
You said Sigmarines are identical to Space Marines so I'm not sure if you can argue here.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And they have armoured colours and rebreathers built into the coat. And big armoured belt buckles.
No one is saying you can't like them, but can we not try to make it out as if they're the same as the be-goggled trench-coat gangers that Delaques are?
I think that’s a fair criticism. Out the ‘Big 6’, I feel Delaque are the biggest departure from the originals. The other 5 just had existing elements accentuated. Here? I can see why those that like the originals won’t necessarily like these ones as a Delaque Gang.
Don’t think anyone is actually saying they’re a rubbish look overall.
Cawdor changed as much as the Delaque did - moreso if you consider their background. Van Saar are also a pretty radical update too, IMO.
The old Delaque would make good Venators or even just armed "civilians", I think. At least, that's what I'm going to do with mine. It's not much of a stretch to modify the Downtown Dust-up scenario to arm the civies with rifles rather than stub guns.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Cawdor changed as much as the Delaque did - moreso if you consider their background. Van Saar are also a pretty radical update too, IMO.
I'd argue that the Cawdor minis don't look that much different to the originals. They're missing the hoods, and gained a lot of candles, but that's about it. You could argue that their weapons are very different, but they've changed the aesthetic of all the weapons for each gang to make even basic weapons distinct between gangs.
Van Saar are the next biggest radical departure, but are still wearing armoured bodygloves like their predecessors. The main difference with them is the facial hair. They're all radiation'd out and dying, so they don't all have wonderful beards and moustaches like the Van Saar of old.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I think that’s a fair criticism. Out the ‘Big 6’, I feel Delaque are the biggest departure from the originals. The other 5 just had existing elements accentuated. Here? I can see why those that like the originals won’t necessarily like these ones as a Delaque Gang.
Don’t think anyone is actually saying they’re a rubbish look overall.
'Least you get what I'm saying.
lord_blackfang wrote: You said Sigmarines are identical to Space Marines so I'm not sure if you can argue here.
I get what you're saying too. I just think it's a change for the better.
The scavenger look for the Cawdor is a pretty big change. That's all new to this edition, whereas the change to the Delaque is more emphasising their existing traits, I think. For example, I could see using these Delaque alongside the old ones as some sort of religious cult (not necessarily in the context of a Necromunda gang, perhaps) with the new models being the inner circle and the old ones the newer recruits who haven't been inducted yet - the main sticking point for me would be the different style of weaponry. For example, as a Chaos Cult gang - use the old models until they get their first advance, then swap them for a new model.
Whereas with Cawdor, I'm not sure I'd want to combine the new and old like that.
I think it's great that the starting gangs have grown further apart in concept and rules. I mean, other than their available skill tables, all the 6 gangs in Oldcromunda were the same. The start of a campaign was basically who did well at the start as the identity of the gang did not develop until half the gang started getting advances.
With Newcromunda the differences are right there from the beginning. Yes, I'd like it if there were some new Goliath minis with some more mundane weapons (Shotguns and Autoguns especially), but I like that their signature weapon (Stubcannon) is unique to them, how Lasguns are the signature weapon of the Escher (although the 5 cred cost for Lasguns makes Laspistols a terrible investment - but that's a balance issue).
I like the really rough industrial look of Orlocks, and the way that Van Saar don't lower themselves to 'shotguns' and 'autoguns', but have las-versions of all of them. Cawdor's scavenged approach makes them unique, and the poor-man's Custodes weapons are a nice touch.
Still can't make out what the Delaque's are meant to be armed with yet...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think it's great that the starting gangs have grown further apart in concept and rules. I mean, other than their available skill tables, all the 6 gangs in Oldcromunda were the same. The start of a campaign was basically who did well at the start as the identity of the gang did not develop until half the gang started getting advances.
With Newcromunda the differences are right there from the beginning. Yes, I'd like it if there were some new Goliath minis with some more mundane weapons (Shotguns and Autoguns especially), but I like that their signature weapon (Stubcannon) is unique to them, how Lasguns are the signature weapon of the Escher (although the 5 cred cost for Lasguns makes Laspistols a terrible investment - but that's a balance issue).
I like the really rough industrial look of Orlocks, and the way that Van Saar don't lower themselves to 'shotguns' and 'autoguns', but have las-versions of all of them. Cawdor's scavenged approach makes them unique, and the poor-man's Custodes weapons are a nice touch.
Still can't make out what the Delaque's are meant to be armed with yet...
autopistols and autoguns, I think. The one with two knives, back middle, has a distinctive autgun muzzle poking out from behind his back, and even the silenced pistols and rifles have the forward sight on the muzzle that is part of the visual definition of a 40k autopistol/gun. and one with some sort of long rifle. A little bit less varied than the other gangs; I hope there's some more options on the sprue.
Lets not forget that Necromunda likely has access to the rare Hollywood Silencer! So its a true silencer not just a suppressor*
*note due to the questionable build quality, maintenance and regular potential dunking in acidic surfaces and drips from above; the quality of a silencer's performance is questionable at best and thus might be closer to a suppressor in actual use if a ganger doesn't maintain their weapon well or bought/stole it from the wrong ganger.
The Delaques are very nice if somewhat different to my expectations. I think my favourite thing about all the new models is that they change the setting in two major ways. Firstly, the new ones are effectively paramilitary forces rather than gang warfare. Secondly, gangs like Goliath and Delaque are effectively abhumans.
If forced to choose between them, I prefer the old metals and prefer the notion of low down gang warfare. But with the new Necromunda I can venture into the also very interesting notion of paramilitary warfare with an abhuman twist.
Part of me wishes they just remained faithful to the old aesthetic with the new models but it is arguably better that now there are two distinct aesthetics to choose from.
I like these Delaque miniatures, but I'm not sure if I'd call them proper "Delaque"... they're kinda on the line. For Necromunda there is a certain amount of that 70's - 80's street gang and punk aesthetic and vibe for many of the gangs. Van Saar were partially defined by being outside that, Delaque however were definitely part of that prevailing street gang aesthetic theme. These minis are firmly outside that and closer to the advanced future aesthetic of Van Saar than the rest. They feel more professional and well funded, less street gang and more large scale organized crime. Maybe thats better keeping to how they operate but its a distinct visual shift. I kinda want to put fedoras on them.
I prefer the handgun size in the concept. The models turned out kinda comical. They dont look like they would be able to even handle the kickback from those guns. I hope they all are psykers cause they don't look like theyd stand a chance against the other gangs. Bummed the male rebreather head from the concept also didn't make it into the kit. I need to see the sprues before making final judgement on these guys.
zedmeister wrote: I must admit that, despite the silenced weapons and what looks to be a sniper rifle, the lack of web guns is a (minor) disappointment.
So you can tweak things to make it more interesting? You'll need to tweak the game just to get it going! The necessity of tweaking will be prominent before the first game is over.
Those Delaque look fantastic. Never was a fan of the old ones, they sat down in the sump with Goliath for me. These though? These look uniquely 40k (which is to say they rip of a bunch of aesthetic style from Dark City to Lynch's Dune, but in a way that feels like a pleasant homage rather than a straight copy). They're nice enough that I may actually branch out this time around and pick up more than one gang.
I'm also glad that just holding off has paid off and I don't have to sweat all the little supplements or the boxed set. Looks like I can tell my group the wait is over, Necromunda is finally back!
Ronin_eX wrote: They're nice enough that I may actually branch out this time around and pick up more than one gang.
I've bought each and every gang released so far, including stuff for the White Dwarf gangs. I'll be getting these, too. Blood Bowl hasn't done this for me and I like that game even more.
I'm also glad that just holding off has paid off and I don't have to sweat all the little supplements or the boxed set. Looks like I can tell my group the wait is over, Necromunda is finally back!
Thargrim wrote: I prefer the handgun size in the concept. The models turned out kinda comical. They dont look like they would be able to even handle the kickback from those guns. I hope they all are psykers cause they don't look like theyd stand a chance against the other gangs. Bummed the male rebreather head from the concept also didn't make it into the kit. I need to see the sprues before making final judgement on these guys.
The guns don't look any more out of scale than the ones every other 40k model is waving around, to me. It's just one of those things, like large heads and hands, that most wargaming models tend to have.
Thargrim wrote: I prefer the handgun size in the concept. The models turned out kinda comical. They dont look like they would be able to even handle the kickback from those guns. I hope they all are psykers cause they don't look like theyd stand a chance against the other gangs. Bummed the male rebreather head from the concept also didn't make it into the kit. I need to see the sprues before making final judgement on these guys.
The guns don't look any more out of scale than the ones every other 40k model is waving around, to me. It's just one of those things, like large heads and hands, that most wargaming models tend to have.
Except Corvus Belli, Wyrd, Warcradle, Para Bellum... I could go on but point is there are plenty on manufacturers who are more than capable to producing incredible minis with wonderful designs and _in proportion_ features.
Personally, I think they are okay models overall but the enormously out of proportion guns are the biggest let down especially comparing to the concept art.
Thargrim wrote: I prefer the handgun size in the concept. The models turned out kinda comical. They dont look like they would be able to even handle the kickback from those guns. I hope they all are psykers cause they don't look like theyd stand a chance against the other gangs. Bummed the male rebreather head from the concept also didn't make it into the kit. I need to see the sprues before making final judgement on these guys.
The guns don't look any more out of scale than the ones every other 40k model is waving around, to me. It's just one of those things, like large heads and hands, that most wargaming models tend to have.
Except Corvus Belli, Wyrd, Warcradle, Para Bellum... I could go on but point is there are plenty on manufacturers who are more than capable to producing incredible minis with wonderful designs and _in proportion_ features.
Personally, I think they are okay models overall but the enormously out of proportion guns are the biggest let down especially comparing to the concept art.
The word you're looking for is willing, not capable. GW has an established style and like it or not (I prefer more realistic proportions myself), they'll keep doing oversized and disproportionate stuff that fits with their style and existing range.
Thargrim wrote: I prefer the handgun size in the concept. The models turned out kinda comical. They dont look like they would be able to even handle the kickback from those guns. I hope they all are psykers cause they don't look like theyd stand a chance against the other gangs. Bummed the male rebreather head from the concept also didn't make it into the kit. I need to see the sprues before making final judgement on these guys.
The guns don't look any more out of scale than the ones every other 40k model is waving around, to me. It's just one of those things, like large heads and hands, that most wargaming models tend to have.
Except Corvus Belli, Wyrd, Warcradle, Para Bellum... I could go on but point is there are plenty on manufacturers who are more than capable to producing incredible minis with wonderful designs and _in proportion_ features.
Corvus belli have their own problems with proportions, and I think the weapons and heads are only less distorted, not "accurate". But that doesn't really matter; by the rest of the range those guns aren't out of proportion; they're just long because of the silencers.
If they made them "accurate", people would complain that they're armed with ridiculously small guns, and look wimpy compared to the other gangs.
Its also harder to do smaller detail in hard plastic compared to metal miniatures. Even though GWs plastic is some of the best compared to others its still not quiet there yet compared to metal and resin.
The proportions are starting to change a little now though but at the same time the miniatures are getting bigger.
Painting Infnity models is a huge pain in the ass with their tiny appendages and weapons. There’s a reason for heroic scale after all. I think you need to go to 40mm before true scale becomes worth it. Also one of the reasons that GW has increased scale along with slowly correcting proportions. Also, what looks good in a photo blown up on a screen is very different to what looks good when held in the hand. I feel that sometimes people are so used to just looking at 3x actual size minis painted by Angel Giraldez that they forget what’s actually practical for most gamers out there.
Mymearan wrote: Painting Infnity models is a huge pain in the ass with their tiny appendages and weapons. There’s a reason for heroic scale after all. I think you need to go to 40mm before true scale becomes worth it. Also one of the reasons that GW has increased scale along with slowly correcting proportions. Also, what looks good in a photo blown up on a screen is very different to what looks good when held in the hand. I feel that sometimes people are so used to just looking at 3x actual size minis painted by Angel Giraldez that they forget what’s actually practical for most gamers out there.
Thats the primary reason I don't play infinity even when I live in his "capital city" (As Nottingham is to GW). I'm a very bad painter, and I'm bad at paiting space marines with their lack of details and disproportionated limbs... I tremble with the mere idea of trying to paint any infinity miniature.
I really hope the compiled books will turn out good as the N17 game is amazing and deserves clear rules. However my hopes are low given thei track record, and especially as there have been no (?) rumors of FW/GW contacting Yaktribe, Dakka-Baxx or other Necro clusters/rules ninjas for help with proof-reading. A shame really - and an opportunity missed.
And now something slightly off-topic (sorry):
I would like to recommend buying/reading the new Blck Library publication ”Wanted: Dead”.
Set in Necromunda the book (full of dirty deeds - and also dirt cheap!) follows an Escher gang.
I got it tonight at release (as an ebook, after midnight) and read it in one go. Really well written apart from a few minor flaws (widespread knowledge about Space Marines, a lesbian cliché romance and unrealistic combat full of time consuming dialogue).
Buy it to support Necromunda. Highly recommended!
Widespread knowledge about Space Marines, depending on the specific knowledge, is forgivable for the denizens of Necromunda.
After all, the Imperial Fists maintain a Chapter recruitment keep in Hive Primus, so the locals should be aware of the Marine presence and regular sweeps for recruits.
I've got the books coming in tomorrow, fingers crossed, so I'll give it a read and see what it's all about, then if I don't forget return to give a spoiler-free reply.
Honestly I think it's better. The alternating activation take the all-or-nothing nature of the Pinning rule and throw it away. The extra missions help quite a bit, and there are real differences between starting gangs now.
kendoka wrote: And now something slightly off-topic (sorry):
I would like to recommend buying/reading the new Blck Library publication ”Wanted: Dead”.
Set in Necromunda the book (full of dirty deeds - and also dirt cheap!) follows an Escher gang.
I got it tonight at release (as an ebook, after midnight) and read it in one go. Really well written apart from a few minor flaws (widespread knowledge about Space Marines, a lesbian cliché romance and unrealistic combat full of time consuming dialogue).
Buy it to support Necromunda. Highly recommended!
The ‘widespread knowledge’ amounts to our heroine being aware that Space Marines are tall and have deep voices. It’s even mentioned in the story that she saw holopicts when they came to ‘Munda to recruit.
Also, when did lesbian romances become a cliché at Black Library? I must have missed that!
Could someone fill me in on the compendium being released? Seems I totally missed that news/announcement. Will I finally be able to buy the rule book separately and/or not have to spend another $120 on the Gang War books? If I could buy a single rule book and a single gang war book I would be so back into Necromunda right now.
Could someone fill me in on the compendium being released? Seems I totally missed that news/announcement. Will I finally be able to buy the rule book separately and/or not have to spend another $120 on the Gang War books? If I could buy a single rule book and a single gang war book I would be so back into Necromunda right now.
The Compendium release is two parts. One part is the full rules of the game. The second is a Gangers book which has all the equipment, lore and gang details all in one place for each of the 6 great houses released thus far (including Delaque).
I don't recall any mention about Chaos Cultists or Genestealer Cults being in the book though so they might remain WD/website releases for those rules for now.
AS for when we don't have a date, but considering how full a release preview it was I would guess before or very soon after Christmas.
Could someone fill me in on the compendium being released? Seems I totally missed that news/announcement. Will I finally be able to buy the rule book separately and/or not have to spend another $120 on the Gang War books? If I could buy a single rule book and a single gang war book I would be so back into Necromunda right now.
Here’s my original post as taken from the Warhammer Community article.
No release date yet but likely to be alongside Delaques and this side of Christmas. Pure speculation on my part but I reckon the Rulebook will be £25 like Killteam with the Compendium £30 like the Bloodbowl one.
Overread wrote: Even in the lore Spyrers are utterly broken when encountering Gangs. You'd be throwing down two or three gangs against one enemy model in order to beat many of them - esp since in the game you're hard-restricted on what tricks you can pull.
I like the dissonance here - thread in which a lot of people said a gang can take on space marines (even though a few malnourished hobos with rusty pipes can give them equal fight...) is now making spyrers into some unbeatable boogeymen (even though a single Astartes should be able to tear all but most experienced spyrers apart with trivial ease...) despite the fact they are just regular humans, and a lot of spyrer gear and tactics are pretty stupid. Take the dual power fist or lighting claw suits - really? You want to close into melee range with foes wielding plasma guns and melta weaponry? Unless these suits are somehow laughably more durable than things like Terminators, Canoptek Wraiths, Meganobz, Wraithguard and other things regularly dying to them in 40K, or unless Necromundan meltagun is so bad it would be S4 in 40K, the very first fight of such spyrer with a veteran gang would result in gang leader or heavy trying on pretty spiffy new suit with a few patched up holes...
Conversely, I really hope GW makes scenario featuring SM hunting for candidates in the underhive with appropriately absurd stats (like every single one being rerollable 2+) to drive home just how difficult a fight with someone with reflexes far beyond best humans would be, someone who doesn't know fear, doesn't tire, knows his weapon perfectly and can hit smallest opening with perfect accuracy, someone with battle plate that laughs at everything but your biggest guns and warns him about ambushes, someone who faced enemies far more dangerous than you will ever be hundreds of times and triumphed.
Yup, that sure sounds like equivalent of fighting a few hobos who didn't eat whole week and are lit by candles everywhere to make a better target, hobos who can nevertheless still beat your ass
I don´t want to see any Primaris or other SM ruining Necromunda. This game is about gang warfare and has no place at all for the most recent Uber-Dudes that GW deemed necessary to flood the market with. They should stay where they are and that´s in 8th 40k.
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Thargrim wrote: I prefer the handgun size in the concept. The models turned out kinda comical. They dont look like they would be able to even handle the kickback from those guns. I hope they all are psykers cause they don't look like theyd stand a chance against the other gangs. Bummed the male rebreather head from the concept also didn't make it into the kit. I need to see the sprues before making final judgement on these guys.
GW´s guns were always too large. They call it heroic scale.
Automatically Appended Next Post: New Delaque: 10/10
But I like so far all new Necromunda models with the exception of the ugly Escher cat. I do hope they sell the Delaque book separately because I won´t buy the compendium as it will be riddled with the same mistakes as the previous books. It would also be more than just a bummer, if they decide to drop the Redemptionists.
Could someone fill me in on the compendium being released? Seems I totally missed that news/announcement. Will I finally be able to buy the rule book separately and/or not have to spend another $120 on the Gang War books? If I could buy a single rule book and a single gang war book I would be so back into Necromunda right now.
Even if those single books got countless contradictions in them? What they need to do now is large amount of proof reading, proper editing, unification, problem fixing, rules clarifications, preferably some layout and no more inconsistent weapon profiles!
Ok I am totally lost, Seems i missed something big. The rulebook was in the box set.... so it is being replaced by a book that also includes all the content that is in all the Gang war supplements so far? This is really confusing to say the least.
They kept doing updates in Gang war so this new book will make them all pretty much toliet paper or do you still need them?
angel of death 007 wrote: Ok I am totally lost, Seems i missed something big. The rulebook was in the box set.... so it is being replaced by a book that also includes all the content that is in all the Gang war supplements so far? This is really confusing to say the least.
They kept doing updates in Gang war so this new book will make them all pretty much toliet paper or do you still need them?
The new rule book is an updated version including FAQs and other updates. The Gang War compilation has everything from the Gang War books in it. So if you buy these two books then yes, you can wipe your butt with the ones you already have.
Awesome how GW totally wipes out all their books almost as fast as they print them. About the same sense as buying a computer the day you buy it it is outdated. Fantastic. A reason why I stopped buying codexes they did the same thing with indexes.
I think i will hold off on buying these as the only thing i would really be adding is the stuff for the newest gang. I am sure they will add more non gang stuff and then put out more books probably one by one again then maybe do a massive book at the end. I am done with feeding them money for books.
Mymearan wrote: The new rule book is an updated version including FAQs and other updates. The Gang War compilation has everything from the Gang War books in it. So if you buy these two books then yes, you can wipe your butt with the ones you already have.
Did they say that everything in the Gang War books would be reprinted in one of these two larger rulebooks? My impression is that these rulebooks were something more, and something less, than just a reprint.
I would wager once you combine the rules they would condense down a fair bit. Heck they can just print one set of rules and then the option for players to use them on a 2D or 3D table (since you just leave out the elevated terrain rules and you've got the game on 2D). So that in itself cuts out a huge chunk.
Plus things like equipment lists with prices get revised and reprinted several times so, again, by cutting down and combining you save page counts there.
kendoka wrote: And now something slightly off-topic (sorry):
I would like to recommend buying/reading the new Blck Library publication ”Wanted: Dead”.
Set in Necromunda the book (full of dirty deeds - and also dirt cheap!) follows an Escher gang.
I got it tonight at release (as an ebook, after midnight) and read it in one go. Really well written apart from a few minor flaws (widespread knowledge about Space Marines, a lesbian cliché romance and unrealistic combat full of time consuming dialogue).
Buy it to support Necromunda. Highly recommended!
The ‘widespread knowledge’ amounts to our heroine being aware that Space Marines are tall and have deep voices. It’s even mentioned in the story that she saw holopicts when they came to ‘Munda to recruit.
Also, when did lesbian romances become a cliché at Black Library? I must have missed that!
IMHO: If you compare how much Cawdor knows about the Emperors golden boys, she knows way too much. Even using the term ”Space Marine” is off (”The Yellow Giants” might have worked though). Much cooler if everything offworld is extremely vague. Holopics is not the same as FB or our news channels.
Cliché in the *way* it is written, not *that* it is written.
Full of cringe ”get your hands off my woman!”-dialogue and -action, etc.
Simply a pointless love story badly shoehorned into an excellent novel.
Thanks to everyone for the answer to my question, totally missed the Necromunda information in that update. Very appreciative for the links and information.
Looks like I'll finally be able to get into Necromunda without spending hundreds of dollars on the rules and I should be able to talk some folks locally into it now also. GW is likely to get a bunch of money from me once they release all of this. I just could not justify close to $300 (starter set and Gang War books) on getting the rules for Necromunda. If I can spend ~$80 for the rules and then a couple hundred on the models I am cool with that. Plus with a workable cost of entry I can hopefully get some local people into it also.
angel of death 007 wrote: Ok I am totally lost, Seems i missed something big. The rulebook was in the box set.... so it is being replaced by a book that also includes all the content that is in all the Gang war supplements so far? This is really confusing to say the least.
They kept doing updates in Gang war so this new book will make them all pretty much toliet paper or do you still need them?
First of all: The rules / books / whatever for Necromunda is a complete train-wreck. It is totally confusing!
I can try to give a short summary:
1) The "rulebook" in the box set is not the rulebook for the full game. It is the rulebook for the boxed game. It is a separate system which has alternative skills, scenarios, weapons, costs, stats... everything. The ONLY thing you would want to keep from this book is the core mechanics and 2d rules. Those are still in use for the "full" system. 2) The Gang War books expands on the core mechanics and 2d rules from the rule book by adding the "real" game, ie proper skills, weapons, costs, stats, scenarios, campaigns, skirmish, pets, brutes, bounty hunters, mercenaries and 3d rules. Which means that most of the content of the rulebook is replaced by content from the Gang War books (except the core mechanics and 2d rules).
The problem with N17 is the rulebook is tailor made for the boxed content. So you got a rulebook specifically made for Goliath, Escher, no juves, no pets, no campaign, no 3d, very few weapons, almost no skills... Compare this to the direct opposite: The Killteam book. It is sold separately because it is not tailor made to the contents of the Killteam box.
What everyone has been waiting for is a rules compilation for the "full" N17 game. So we want all the rules combined, none of the contradictions and flaws of the original books and we want a single game system, ie no demo rules limited to the boxed game only.
During the past year, this awful rules mess has caused countless discussions, questions and confusion!
I expect that we will see the following contents:
Rules compendium: -core mechanics (from original rulebook) -2d rules (from original rulebook) -3d rules (from Gang War 1) -weapon stats (from Gang War books and new weapons stats for Delaque release) -psyker rules (from Gang War 4 and (possibly) new psyker rules/abilities for Delaque release) -skills from Gang War books
Gang compendium: -6 house gangs from Gang War books -pets, hangers-on, brutes, hive scum, bounty hunters (from Gang War books) -weapon costs (from Gang War books) -gang composition (from Gang War books) -Dominion campaign (from Gang War 4) -possibly Turf War campaign with updated elements from Dominion campaign (from Gang War 1 and 4) -scenarios, hopefully updated and fixed (from Gang War books and Leader's accessories pack) - and more (...)
What we will (hopefully) NOT see in the rules compendium or gang compendium are. -Goliath and Escher (from original rulebook) -weapons, stats, costs (from original rulebook) -scenarios (from original rulebook)
To answer your question: all previous books will be toilet paper yes. They will include incorrect weapon stats, flawed scenarios, incorrect weapon traits, rules, skills, campaign components, contradictions... just a complete mess.
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Overread wrote: I would wager once you combine the rules they would condense down a fair bit. Heck they can just print one set of rules and then the option for players to use them on a 2D or 3D table (since you just leave out the elevated terrain rules and you've got the game on 2D). So that in itself cuts out a huge chunk.
Plus things like equipment lists with prices get revised and reprinted several times so, again, by cutting down and combining you save page counts there.
I have combined all the rules, and it is condensed to 130 pages (no fluff or illustrations). I would expect the books to include fluff, illustrations and a little bit more air so to speak, so maybe 200 or 300 pages total.
IMHO: If you compare how much Cawdor knows about the Emperors golden boys, she knows way too much. Even using the term ”Space Marine” is off (”The Yellow Giants” might have worked though). Much cooler if everything offworld is extremely vague. Holopics is not the same as FB or our news channels.
Cliché in the *way* it is written, not *that* it is written.
Full of cringe ”get your hands off my woman!”-dialogue and -action, etc.
Simply a pointless love story badly shoehorned into an excellent novel.
Spoiler:
The Space Marine reference is half character half narrator when its made, so in a sense its not limited to just ganger understanding of the universe, but could easily be the narrator giving a bit of flavour into the description whilst also trying to tie the gangs to the 40K world at large. I would rank it a casual style of writing for Necromunda in so much as its not viewing things strictly from the pure ganger point of view.
That said there's an ex-guardsmen who had the rare chance to return home (or was sent home/escaped home) so there's every chance that she could have fought alongside or encountered Marines and thus brought home that story, or brought home others from the Regiment she was posted to from other guardsmen. So there's avenues whereby that knowledge could have seeped into the gang level at least for this gang.
One thing that becomes abundantly clear as you read the Necromunda books and short stories is the sheer variety of gangs and places in the Underhive. Some gangs are little more than wild animals or crazed believers. To the Ratskins the world outside of even just the Underhive is a total mythology; big walls and tall ceilings or even the open world is totally beyond their comprehension and space itself would likely drive them mad with how vast and open it is. To them the Emperor is a pure god who protects from afar. From there you've got crazed Cawder who are believers too, but in the burning and cleansing of fire and the control over others that their warped belief lets them have. Escher, Goliath and the other Great Houses have varying levels of understanding. From those born in the Hives through to those who have run down from the Spire for various reasons or who fell from the Spire. So there's loads of ways that individual Gangs could pick up on info about the world outside of the Hive.
Similarly how they behave is very variable; some gangs are held together only by the next job and coin that comes from it. With members ready to backstab and take over - a gang of Janes (Firefly) if you would. Others hold stronger loyalties and even love between each other and are more willing to honour those bonds. Others feel pressed into their behaviour and react to situations in ways that they would rather not, but which they feel they must by how violent the world have been to them. Others are half nuts or totally nuts. There's even family groups that have tight bonds and strong loyalties.
Let's not forget that there's a huge difference between Cawdor's worship of mythological Custodes and having any actual knowledge about Space Marines. Especially with the Imperial Fists presence, as previously noted.
Regarding SM (actually any) knowledge in the underhive.
Although there *could* be widespread knowledge in the underhive regarding Space Marines and other off-world stuff it is far more likely (and cool) that the citizens knows very little outside of what is needed to survive on a day-by-day basis.
As for *any* kind of news trickling its way downhive I imagine it beeing in the way of many years old rumors, stories retold and old recorded pictfeeds that have been looped ten thousand times (becoming almost unreadable) behind a bar. The main flow of info would obviously be pure propaganda.
Gangs being as isolated as if in a Borneo djungle is much more fluffy than them surfing the web(way) for the latest about Space Marines. Especially since we really (x1000) need a setting without them.
Imperial Fists may recruit from Necromunda - but so do Genestealer and Chaos cults as well - without the citizens knowing anything.
But Escher aren't "the citizens". Despite the name, the gangs aren't just average people. And, to quote Lord Fishface, the knowledge "that Space Marines are tall and have deep voices" (and called Space Marines) isn't really a problem. I mean, yeah, I agree with you that the mysticism and backward knowledge is a great element of the setting, but it's just hardly unlikely for an Escher to know such passing things about a Space Marine, especially given the Space Marine presence there. It'd be different if she started spouting the Lexicanum article on the Imperial Fists' history or something. There's a reasonable likelihood that she has seen or even met a Marine in person, or knows someone who has.
Genestealer and Chaos cults are much more secretive about their recruiting process than the Imperial Fists are, I imagine. Not to mention that they can easily pass for dirty humans while the appearance of a single, giant, bright yellow Space Marine would be big news all around. Even regarded as a significant religious event by many. Said holopic would probably have even been taken on Necromunda rather than being a fun selfie from Armageddon she got from Fistbook.
The only ones have to worry about (for arm size) is if buy Van Saar from forge world (upgrade packs), some options are women only. From someone who has bought ever necrmunder thing available, the plastics from GW are awesome and the resign from forge world are normal.
As in talk of Sm etc, that is interplanetary stuff, our concern is the small stuff like you know food and supplies.
What impression will the game designers give when streaming about the rules? Will they just brag about the good stuff, or confess they have made a mess during the past year and is now going to fix everything? I've had some first-hand experience with some of the creators of N17 and they don't seem to be care or even comprehend many of the problems they put in print.
I would have hoped for a grittier lo-tech version of Delaque than the current miniatures, even if they are very nicely designed for what they are. I felt the same about Van Saar. Also, the trenchcoats look really dysfunctional for running, climbing ladders etc, but then again I love the Cawdor models (just the Blanchesque lo-tech look I love and prefer) and those guys run around with lit candles on their heads and shoulders
I kinda view the new delaque as you turn around and they are just there, you never actually see them sneak around they are just creepily popping up while you wonder how they even managed it. Adding to the reasons people dont like dealing with delaque.
Baxx wrote: Probably talking about the Delaque sprue.
What impression will the game designers give when streaming about the rules? Will they just brag about the good stuff, or confess they have made a mess during the past year and is now going to fix everything? I've had some first-hand experience with some of the creators of N17 and they don't seem to be care or even comprehend many of the problems they put in print.
Well let's not pretend you're interested in being pleased, ja?
Away with you troll.
I definitely won't be missing this stream. Hopefully they show off the Delaque sprue, dice, and give at least a brief overview of both new books. I'd also like to know if they plan on re releasing the accessories pack, or at least repackaging those tokens and templates into a new pack.
With the potential for the complete gang book and rule book I'm on the cusp of finally getting back into Necromunda ...but if they feth this up, it may well mean I give the game a pass and just move on. If the new books are anywhere in the realm of how awful the current printed materials are...I don't think i can give them money in good conscience. I've never seen a more poor product than the rulebook from the main box, etc.
So if you're reading any of this GW...don't cock it up. Please. Give us a professional product. I'm not the only one in my group or local area who has been put-off by the way GW launched Necromunda. We're all more or less waiting for compendiums. Let's see how they do.
Well let's not pretend you're interested in being pleased, ja?
Away with you troll.
It is impossible for anyone to be pleased with how the rules are written and released so far. The pending compendium is their last chance to make it right. If they fail miserably this time, N17 will most likely be reserved for those hardcore enthusiasts that kept playing the game in the dark and developed the community edition. My impression is the game developers doesn't care or are not aware of all the problems that has been discussed and house-ruled countless times on various forums (especially yaktribe forum). I hope to see this being addressed and fixed in the rules compilation, and will be pleased if it is. But if they just brag about whatever else and the same problems persists, I'm not gonna be pleased, no.
Tcumulative Gang War way of adding rules isn't perfect - most notably in the fact that weapons profiles aren't always consistent - but I don't have a huge problem with the way it was done. To be clear, Necromunda being released in 2017 with all six gangs and all the rules now available wasn't an option, so saying "they should have released all the rules at once" is irrelevant - the later material didn't exist at the time of publication, and some of it probably couldn't have been done prior to release anyway. For example, the Cawdor gang; the rules and background and miniatures all fed back on each other as the design progressed, and the miniatures wouldn't have been sculpted before the game was released. Some of the scenarios in later books were there due to player feedback, so again, couldn't have been in the initial rules.
I didn't have any problems running a campaign and adding in the new material as it was published.
As for rules fixes, that's a tricky one for any company; do you create new material, or revise the old? If you do the former, people complain about errors. if you do the latter, they complain there's no new material, and whatevcer you do, people complain there's no "support". I don't understand the reluctance of the more vocal players to just make changes to things they don't like in games, myself.
In terms of the books. They need to work on their consistency sure.
But, when we first found out, I did say that for me whether or not they're worth it would depend solely upon the content. I accepted that periodicals help keep the game selling, and that may be necessary to keep it in production. No problem there. But if they were just fobbing us off with a smattering of rules, I'd be unhappy.
Me, I've got all the Gang War books so far. And on balance, I'm happy with what I've paid for.
When it comes to the compendium, if it collects everything in one place, and does a general tidy up, that'd be reason enough for me to invest.
Well let's not pretend you're interested in being pleased, ja?
Away with you troll.
Baxx has done more to make Necromunda playable than GW has. What have you done?
What has he done? A genuine question; I've managed to run and play in two Necromunda campaigns since the release of the new game. I literally couldn't have done that without GW, and yet I don't remember Baxx helping me out there ...
For those of us who were there when the first Necromunda came out, we got rules in drips and drags too. All the outlander rules, wasteland guys and alternate gangs in citedal journal, gang war and white dwarf. Now we are getting unique gangs with unique rules instead of 6 photocopies who just picked different skills. Harder to balance and so many more options as well as new plastics instead of metals. Sometimes it’s hard to remember how long it took to roll out the old stuff.
I still haven’t bought in as my hobby budget is really low right now and I’m waiting for a compendium and wanted to see the core 6 gangs before I decided.
A compendium could find favor with me - there was a brief flurry of interest in the game around here which died out before I even got to play. But a stable, complete set of rules with a good campaign could make all the difference, especially with all the gangs out.
On the subject of the rules, I'd also like to comment that I've never heard of a Necromunda group that didn't house rule their campaign up the wazoo.
Seriously. Pretty much the only thing peeps had in common across groups was how movement, shooting and combat was resolved. Everything else was tinkered with, rejigged, reviewed, reworked and occasionally replaced entirely.
There's even multiple articles on Warhammer Community with examples of this. It's positively encouraged.
Anyone who becomes a rules lawyer for a campaign game is a buzzkill in my book, and not someone who'll be invited back.
Yeah, we've had to make a few on the fly rulings in our games. One thing that I will mention - the current game is clunky when you have to cross reference 4-5 books to play a single game. For an example of a recent game: Van Saar V Goliath playing the Escort mission in Zone Mortalis with the dangerous tiles. 5 fecking books. Rulebook, Book 1 for Goliath and campaign rules, Book 2 for the tile rules, book 3 for the Van Saar and book 4 for the scenario. That was a tiresome game!
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On the subject of the rules, I'd also like to comment that I've never heard of a Necromunda group that didn't house rule their campaign up the wazoo.
Seriously. Pretty much the only thing peeps had in common across groups was how movement, shooting and combat was resolved. Everything else was tinkered with, rejigged, reviewed, reworked and occasionally replaced entirely.
There's even multiple articles on Warhammer Community with examples of this. It's positively encouraged.
Anyone who becomes a rules lawyer for a campaign game is a buzzkill in my book, and not someone who'll be invited back.
And? So? But? Therefore?
None of this is an excuse for a shoddy product. If anything, it's proof that the game needed to be home-brewed/patched into oblivion.
Maybe you don't remember, but when GW combined the Rulebook and the Sourcebook into a single standalone release, called "Necromunda: Underhive", it shipped with all the same errors from the original books. Nothing was fixed. People are afraid of a repeat here.
Theophony wrote: For those of us who were there when the first Necromunda came out, we got rules in drips and drags too.
That's not even remotely true. Necromunda was feature complete upon release. Outlanders was a massive rules expansion. Outside of Pit Slave gangs pretty much everything that came after was optional/experimental, with very specific exceptions (Chaos Cults were an official gang).
Theophony wrote: For those of us who were there when the first Necromunda came out, we got rules in drips and drags too. All the outlander rules, wasteland guys and alternate gangs in citedal journal, gang war and white dwarf. Now we are getting unique gangs with unique rules instead of 6 photocopies who just picked different skills. Harder to balance and so many more options as well as new plastics instead of metals. Sometimes it’s hard to remember how long it took to roll out the old stuff.
I still haven’t bought in as my hobby budget is really low right now and I’m waiting for a compendium and wanted to see the core 6 gangs before I decided.
Those of us who were there when the first Necromunda came out will recall that GW as a company was a fraction of the size with a fraction of the resources they currently enjoy. Lets not pretend it's somehow beyond them these days to create a rules product that consisted of the six new-styled and fancified gangs, a Dominion-style campaign system, and the accompanying items, it simply doesn't fit with their present-day business strategy to release rules without models, or to take on any risk that can be avoided. And, given it is in fact a choice rather than an unavoidable necessity, it's perfectly fair if people want to criticise that choice.
It's also perfectly fair to acknowledge a version of N17 that didn't fit GW's present business strategy has essentially zero chance of being made while still pointing out the problems the approach that was taken caused. The mayfly-gamer is obsessed with "ongoing support" and won't touch anything that doesn't have a regular and continuing release schedule to go with it, but they're not the people who buy multiple forces, run demo games, run campaigns, and keep systems like this going for years & years after GW and the mayflies have flitted off elsewhere, and a lot of that type of person were put off by not having a completed core experience available, something that wouldn't be radically upended every couple of months.
Folk need to stop trying to equate Outlanders et al - which was the original version of "ongoing support" - with the core game Necromunda, which regardless of having less distinctive gangs was a complete and functional experience. Indeed the reason it lasted long enough to need and justify further content was that the complete and functional core experience was so good. I very much hope that these two books will provide that core going forward, and that they will be of a higher standard of quality in terms of editing and proofreading than has been the case up until now, but I am extremely glad that I elected to stay well clear of the rules unless and until such a compilation was released because from what I've seen of the folk who did attempt to follow along with the release model it was bloody nightmarish trying to run a campaign. It's also worth noting that the present strategy could begin to backfire - if people begin to grasp that the folk buying content as it's release are essentially engaging in a paid beta test for the future (hopefully)superior compiled version, enough of them could begin joining the abstainers to wait for that version that GW decide the sales aren't there to justify its creation, despite the fact that the sales would only be absent because of GW's own strategy.
Yodhrin wrote: Indeed the reason it lasted long enough to need and justify further content was that the complete and functional core experience was so good.
That and virtually every GW game got a mid-sized box expansion.
WFB got Warhammer Magic (and then Chaos got their own box). 40K got Dark Millennium. The original Space Hulk got two. Blood Bowl got Deathzone. Quest differed in the way they handled new releases, and in Space Marine 2nd Ed every race (or groups of races) got a mid-sized box release for all their stuff. Hell, Epic's biggest expansion was a full-sized box.
It was the way GW did things back then, and in the case of Necromunda it could have never come out and the game still would have been 'complete' as written. The idea that Necro's release method then and now are in any way similar is nonsense.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Tcumulative Gang War way of adding rules isn't perfect - most notably in the fact that weapons profiles aren't always consistent - but I don't have a huge problem with the way it was done. To be clear, Necromunda being released in 2017 with all six gangs and all the rules now available wasn't an option, so saying "they should have released all the rules at once" is irrelevant - the later material didn't exist at the time of publication, and some of it probably couldn't have been done prior to release anyway. For example, the Cawdor gang; the rules and background and miniatures all fed back on each other as the design progressed, and the miniatures wouldn't have been sculpted before the game was released. Some of the scenarios in later books were there due to player feedback, so again, couldn't have been in the initial rules.
I didn't have any problems running a campaign and adding in the new material as it was published.
As for rules fixes, that's a tricky one for any company; do you create new material, or revise the old? If you do the former, people complain about errors. if you do the latter, they complain there's no new material, and whatevcer you do, people complain there's no "support". I don't understand the reluctance of the more vocal players to just make changes to things they don't like in games, myself.
Why do I pay this kind of money if I have to fix everything myself? I bought the game with the expectation that this was a complete game. If they had labeled the game as "early access" or "in constant change and development" I wouldn't be disappointed or have much to complain about. I'd also think twice before purchase.
One option would be to release the game now, in November 2018, instead of November 2017. I don't think anyone would complain if GW kept Necromunda secret and released it now instead.
You had no problems figuring out how Toxin worked? How Blaze worked? How charging worked? How to balance blast weapons? How melta worked? How rending worked? What the correct profile of a lasgun is? How changing armour affects gang rating? Then you are quite unique, because these and many more topics spawned countless discussions during the past year from other players who did have many problems playing a campaign with unclear/missing/conflicting rules.
When it comes to the compendium, if it collects everything in one place, and does a general tidy up, that'd be reason enough for me to invest.
I have already done that: collect EVERYTHING (and I mean EVERYTHING), general tidy up.
I need more for this compendium to be interesting (of course I'll buy it regardless): -fix unclear rules & scenarios -no more duplicate weapon profiles -balance to blast weapons -explain changing armour's effect on gang rating ++
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On the subject of the rules, I'd also like to comment that I've never heard of a Necromunda group that didn't house rule their campaign up the wazoo.
Seriously. Pretty much the only thing peeps had in common across groups was how movement, shooting and combat was resolved. Everything else was tinkered with, rejigged, reviewed, reworked and occasionally replaced entirely.
There's even multiple articles on Warhammer Community with examples of this. It's positively encouraged.
Anyone who becomes a rules lawyer for a campaign game is a buzzkill in my book, and not someone who'll be invited back.
It's not only encouraged but required for N17. It is impossible to play as-is.
What has he done? A genuine question; I've managed to run and play in two Necromunda campaigns since the release of the new game. I literally couldn't have done that without GW, and yet I don't remember Baxx helping me out there ...
I've played a continuous campaign for 1 year now, and it was literally impossible to play using the rules as written. It was a requirement to update, combine, house-rule and make a solid rules document. What I have done is making the rules compendium and updating it with every new publication. It was so well received I was given free Dakka Contributing Member status for it. I've also spent a lot of time discussion how to fix the rules over at yaktribe (along with many others).
For the record: I am 100% behind Baxx regarding the current rules being ruined by inconsitency and lack of proof reading.
In my book he is a true hero and his work with clearing up the rules is the only reason we still play N17.
As for the release schedule: I have no issues with the drip feed. On the contrary it has given me time to collect everything. I have even bought all books - even the latest Gang War ones that I hardly opened...
Given the history I have little hope in the compendiums adding much to the quality of rules - but with them we can atleast try to find answers to all of the problems without handling five versions of the rules.
All I can say is that I bought the game on release and played a campaign from then until shortly after Gang War 4 came out, and we managed to do so with few problems. We did come across some things that needed discussion, so we did so and carried on. I used Yaktribe for their gang manager, but none of use ever bothered haunting rules discussions online. I don't recall any of Baxx's listed things causing more than fifteen minutes' discussion, and some of them never came up.
Also from yaktribe about the rulebook
They are hardback books, about the same size each as the old 40k/WFB rulebooks (I'd say about 200 pages each from the look of it).
The books have everything published in the previous books (they did mention Dominion but not Turf War though) but not the WD gangs
They are a new version of the rules that includes player feedback and have been reformated.
There a few new stuff (if I heard correctly, something called "house sub-plots"?)
There won't be a GW6 but Delaque rules will be available separately. In what form exactly will be revealed in the coming weeks.
Limited edition slipcase with both books will also be available [pictured].
New rulebook updated, reformatted, tidied up. Includes dominion campaign, plus new material: house subplots. Every previous scenario is in there.
All 6 house gangs, pets, brutes, dramatis personae, hired guns, trading post.
Everything published in books - WD gangs "not in final state yet"
It is more balanced, edited, proofread
Delaque rules will also be available separately, in yet to be announced form (next week)
Delaque background most changed from before. Clearer identity, but left some mystery to the imagination. Hinted at abhuman/alien influence? Slightly taller than other figures.
Gunshroud - stealthy.
Throwing daggers, longlas as heavy, stiletto knives.
Rebreather possibly because they need a different atmosphere?
Digilasers, webgauntlet (pistol), shockstave, and more webby stealthy thingies
Plasma, melta, grav, heavy flamer
Lascannon not an option (aside from Trading Post)
Spyker as brute - telepathy, blasting people with their *mind*
Robot with sensors Spekter, detection, some defensive measures but little attack. Background: bonded to master, grown from part of their brain
Delaque tactics: play at start, after deployment, move D6 obstacles, alternatively add or remove D3.
Play when enemy ranged, intelligence check, if failed attack fails and ends.
After priority, swap positions two of your models
Enemy may not target one of your models for a turn, unless that model attacks
Any round after first, darkness (pitch black) in effect for rest game - lights off!
General: Play when hit by ranged, another friendly fighter of your choice able to be hit gets hit instead.
At start after deployment, 3 fighters may make shoot (basic) action.
Pre-battle sequence. One opponent's fighter may not be selected in pre-selection.
Pre battle when choosing crews. Enemy -1 BS, WS, intelligence, plus 2 cool (drunk)
"Game sold very well in the retail stores"
Working on idea to incorporate guilders. Ally for gang, representatives in your gang. Not as whole gang.
Subplots. Started development early this year. Meant for GW3, no space, 4, no space, now in compilation.
4 tables, fitting card suits. Extra money as rewards on one whole table, so choose what you require. They represent missions from Nobles.
Add to reputation on other table. Experience on third. Fourth allows drawing extra tactics cards during the game.
Cards for scenario thingies are in Dominion campaign rules, but actual cards may well be re-released soonish.
Phyrr cats: resculpted to improve them, thus delaying release.
The rule-book open up with a lot of background, including new stuff (for instance, a timeline for Necromunda)
They spend time rewriting, editing and proofreading the rules
No more "advanced rule" non-sense apparently, they reorganized the rules.
They separated statuses and conditions:
Very nice, a Brute "psyker"! Hopefully they took great care updating rules according to user feedback this time (they hardly have before).
Delaque leader has gone up 5 credits, Champ lost some Initiative, but otherwise very similar to the old gangs of legend pdf. Oh, and finally the champ (and hopefully gangers) no longer have better armour than their leader.
Hardback would be expected (Blood Bowl almanac also is hardback). Somewhat more pages than expected, perhaps to fit most if not all of the fluff and artwork.
Did not expect WD gangs based on earlier rumours (they would fit better in a separate compendium). Maybe we won't see the WD scenarios either?
Maybe we get Delaque as a free pdf treat, but the old Gang War books will still be toilet paper.
I think old rumour was a "cult uprising" book in future, which will likely be where chaos and genestealers go with their own brutes and more extended chaos mutations, along with maybe a special campaign type .
Ey versatile got big buff, can now CC at long range, doesnt count as being engaged (means you can make a good charge with them now). And the armour vs blast weapons in cover is in, thankfully nerfing van saar plasma canons.
flak being 5+ vs blast, 3+ in full cover (4+ in partial) getting undersuit will give you 2+ vs blasts 6+ vs multi meltas
Mesh armour in cover+ undersuits also do similar, sure its expensive but you can atleast get a save, carapace and heavy carapace will also stand up pretty good now.
Glad the Delaque rules will be released separately. Not happy the WD gangs aren't going to be in the compilation. Kinda defeats the purpose of a compilation if you ask me...
Delaque getting the psyker of the brutes isn't surprising. I expected that we'd get full psyker rules alongside Delaque in GW6. Of course, there is no GW6, but we're getting it anyway.
Either way, it's good to see Newcromunda coming out of Early Access. Shame that those of us who bought the Season Pass still have to buy the full game again, but Version 1.0 should be a big improvement over the buggy beta.
I'm pretty thrilled with what I saw and heard in the stream so I'll be getting the new books. I emailed gw a while back and asked them if they could put that map in a book along with paying slightly more attention to necromunda the planet as a setting. So I'm glad to see the map made it in. Only bummer is they didn't zoom in on the Delaque sprue or let us really see any detail of it. The dice look good too.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not happy the WD gangs aren't going to be in the compilation. Kinda defeats the purpose of a compilation if you ask me...
It seems likely that there are more models coming out for GSC (we know of one for sure) and cultists (Chaos is getting new stuff soon, and I assume some of the Blackstone models could qualify), so I'm guessing the WD gangs will come later, in a more complete capacity.
Hmm, shame Delaque don't get a unique heavy weapon (such as a really powerful sniper rifle as mooted earlier in this thread), but then... they do seem loaded for bear with webguns, throwing knives, psychic powers. Here's hoping they have a funky type of unique grenade at least.
Cannot wait to get my hands on them. Very glad to see that quarterly releases will continue (I just wish FW were as regular).
Phyrr cats being delayed is sad, but that they are reworking them is very interesting to hear so I'll look forward to seeing what they've changed around with the cats! Did they mention why they were changing them? Last we saw were resin or masters so its quite a surprise that they are reworking something that appeared near finished.
BrookM wrote: It may have been because the previous designs looked more like oversized rats than cats.
To be fair the way the sump pools and general toxic air of the Underhive is I can well see that a feline would probably lose most of its fur down there. Though yes I do recall some pushback against the designs, I think probably caused by the fact that the cats only artwork up to that point was very traditional "tiger" style rather than skinless rattish
BrookM wrote: It may have been because the previous designs looked more like oversized rats than cats.
To be fair the way the sump pools and general toxic air of the Underhive is I can well see that a feline would probably lose most of its fur down there. Though yes I do recall some pushback against the designs, I think probably caused by the fact that the cats only artwork up to that point was very traditional "tiger" style rather than skinless rattish
I was under the impression that the phyrr cats were imports, not native, so they wouldn’t necessarily be mutated. Though I bet the ones gangers can get their hands on are not exactly thoroughbred show champions…
BrookM wrote: It may have been because the previous designs looked more like oversized rats than cats.
To be fair the way the sump pools and general toxic air of the Underhive is I can well see that a feline would probably lose most of its fur down there. Though yes I do recall some pushback against the designs, I think probably caused by the fact that the cats only artwork up to that point was very traditional "tiger" style rather than skinless rattish
I was under the impression that the phyrr cats were imports, not native, so they wouldn’t necessarily be mutated. Though I bet the ones gangers can get their hands on are not exactly thoroughbred show champions…
Even if they got top breeds, the toxic atmosphere and general hazards down there would likely have their impact on the cats. Plus if they are numerous enough to be obtainable then chances are there's some localised breeding going on down there.
Looking at the page for Gang Composition, Champions are unlimited after the first game and doesn't have the Reputation limitation from Turf War. This is inline with Dominion Campaign, but would completely break Turf War. They used similar wording for the cult pdfs, totally ignoring the necessary limitations for Turf War. If Turf War is still a thing in the compilation, they must write the champ rep limitation somewhere else (not shown) or change the income mechanics. Otherwise, Turf War is gone.
Either way, it's good to see Newcromunda coming out of Early Access. Shame that those of us who bought the Season Pass still have to buy the full game again, but Version 1.0 should be a big improvement over the buggy beta.
Haha yes exactly. To be honest I'm gonna be happy spending money for the core rules one last time if they get it right this time. Looks very promising.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not happy the WD gangs aren't going to be in the compilation. Kinda defeats the purpose of a compilation if you ask me...
It seems likely that there are more models coming out for GSC (we know of one for sure) and cultists (Chaos is getting new stuff soon, and I assume some of the Blackstone models could qualify), so I'm guessing the WD gangs will come later, in a more complete capacity.
Ok, fair point on the Chaos Cultists.
GW's no model/no rule policy hits them the hardest as they have so few minis available, and they're pretty much only armed with autoguns or autopistols/CCW. Sure, you can convert, but GW don't like people converting these days.
If Cultists are getting a proper kit, then that's good.
GW's no model/no rule policy hits them the hardest as they have so few minis available, and they're pretty much only armed with autoguns or autopistols/CCW. Sure, you can convert, but GW don't like people converting these days.
If Cultists are getting a proper kit, then that's good.
That's generally true in most cases and games, but I am surprised the amount of combinations you can do in N17 using official rules. You can have genestealer cults or chaos cults with multi-meltas, thunder hammers, plasmas, meltas, power swords and whatnot!?! I converted a bunch of genestealer cults and half of them are not even legal in kill team.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not happy the WD gangs aren't going to be in the compilation. Kinda defeats the purpose of a compilation if you ask me...
It seems likely that there are more models coming out for GSC (we know of one for sure) and cultists (Chaos is getting new stuff soon, and I assume some of the Blackstone models could qualify), so I'm guessing the WD gangs will come later, in a more complete capacity.
Ok, fair point on the Chaos Cultists.
GW's no model/no rule policy hits them the hardest as they have so few minis available, and they're pretty much only armed with autoguns or autopistols/CCW. Sure, you can convert, but GW don't like people converting these days.
If Cultists are getting a proper kit, then that's good.
The kit is full of juicy shotguns, so I'd be surprised if they didn't get good access to those either.
Baxx wrote: That's generally true in most cases and games, but I am surprised the amount of combinations you can do in N17 using official rules. You can have genestealer cults or chaos cults with multi-meltas, thunder hammers, plasmas, meltas, power swords and whatnot!?! I converted a bunch of genestealer cults and half of them are not even legal in kill team.
I get the options are there, but I'm more talking about the Chaos Cultists actually getting a proper kit. They were a one-and-done starter set release for the last edition of 40K, and have eked along with a tiny kit that has a few of the minis that were available in that starter kit. For a concept that's as old as Chaos itself, it's a shame that they've never had any real attention. I hope that changes, and that those changes are reflected in updated Chaos Cult rules.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not happy the WD gangs aren't going to be in the compilation. Kinda defeats the purpose of a compilation if you ask me...
It seems likely that there are more models coming out for GSC (we know of one for sure) and cultists (Chaos is getting new stuff soon, and I assume some of the Blackstone models could qualify), so I'm guessing the WD gangs will come later, in a more complete capacity.
Ok, fair point on the Chaos Cultists.
GW's no model/no rule policy hits them the hardest as they have so few minis available, and they're pretty much only armed with autoguns or autopistols/CCW. Sure, you can convert, but GW don't like people converting these days.
If Cultists are getting a proper kit, then that's good.
They would benefit a little even if the Blackstone Fortress Traitor Guardsmen were released in a box. You'd get some lasguns, laspistols, chainswords, and flamers, at least. Heck, since they EXIST, maybe GW will update the cultists options to take them into account.
Chaos Cult is one of those "(almost) anything goes" gangs, no clear depiction, the concept of a chaos worship cult also allow vast amount of models to be used.
The fact that Delaque have an ability that lets them move the scenery around at the start of the game really isn't helping to diminish the Dark City vibe is it!
Re: chaos cult, I would love to see a couple of unique weapons (grenades or ammo, really) available for each of the four gods - with the caveat that a cult could only go for one set at a time.
Tavis75 wrote: The fact that Delaque have an ability that lets them move the scenery around at the start of the game really isn't helping to diminish the Dark City vibe is it!
I hadn't even considered that. That's awesome.
Also - they don't have "normal" names. They use nicknames.
Tavis75 wrote: The fact that Delaque have an ability that lets them move the scenery around at the start of the game really isn't helping to diminish the Dark City vibe is it!
I hadn't even considered that. That's awesome.
Also - they don't have "normal" names. They use nicknames.
From what I recall, the current chaos rules are a 'stand-in' until the FW team gives them the same treatment as the gangs.
That was always the goal - think the designers said that back early into 17
I always wondered how Delaque obtained everyone's secrets, there was no reason for them to be trusted and they had no special tech or really any reason to have better spies than anyone else.
I like this psyker idea though, creepy as can be. The illustration looks like the psyker guys in Blackstone Fortress.
Dr Mathias wrote: I always wondered how Delaque obtained everyone's secrets, there was no reason for them to be trusted and they had no special tech or really any reason to have better spies than anyone else.
I like this psyker idea though, creepy as can be. The illustration looks like the psyker guys in Blackstone Fortress.
Psyker trickery (mind reading, invisibility) and by lurking 24/7 all days everyday paparazi style, nobody knew doing nothing would paid off like that,
Baxx wrote: Looking at the page for Gang Composition, Champions are unlimited after the first game and doesn't have the Reputation limitation from Turf War. This is inline with Dominion Campaign, but would completely break Turf War. They used similar wording for the cult pdfs, totally ignoring the necessary limitations for Turf War. If Turf War is still a thing in the compilation, they must write the champ rep limitation somewhere else (not shown) or change the income mechanics. Otherwise, Turf War is gone.
Either way, it's good to see Newcromunda coming out of Early Access. Shame that those of us who bought the Season Pass still have to buy the full game again, but Version 1.0 should be a big improvement over the buggy beta.
Haha yes exactly. To be honest I'm gonna be happy spending money for the core rules one last time if they get it right this time. Looks very promising.
One last time ..... when it comes to GW and their excessive publications I can promise you this will not be the last.
deep in a club in the underhive, abandoned by his brothers, rocking forever in a set that never ends, if you can find him, if you've got enough drugs to entertain him then maybe you can hire the Hairmetal Axman
the new rulebooks
Got a guided read through of the new rulebooks, and they look really good. they’ll be up for pre-order within a couple of weeks, individually and with a limited edition bundle with the slipcase.
The core rulebook has been completely organised and laid out. The core book has a nice chunk of background and maps at the beginning, and the ‘basic’ and ‘advanced’ rules have been complied into just being ‘rules’. so no more flicking through to find certain parts of the same rules. the book also has all the GW scenerios, and the domination campaign, as that was decided to be the better and more popular of the two systems. They’ve also took the time to tidy up some language and other things in this as well (will be covered in the FAQs). For example, the ‘pistol’ weapon trait has been renamed ‘sidearm’ so to avoid confusion with the Pistol category in the trading post. same goes for the lower ‘wargear’ title in the house lists being renamed ‘personal equipment’ so the rule “all fighters can take wargear” refers to armour, grenades, and personal equipment clearly. also the reputation restriction on how many champions you can have is completely gone, to match the GSC and Chaos cults lists.
Its important that I say that these compiled books don’t outright invalidate your existing rulebook and gang war books. the rules, as they should be being played, will be staying 99.9% the same. the new books simply collects it all together, takes the opportunity to clear some things up. Personally feel they’re still very much worth it.
Regarding the gangs book, this contains the 6 house gangs, brutes, pets, hangers-on, named characters, bounty hunters, and hired scum rules, as well as the trading post, weapons stats and traits, and the skills lists as well. This is well laid out with the gangs in alphabetical order, each with their couple of pages of lore at the beginning. there is also some new artwork scattered into both books.
House Delaques
got to have a look at Delaques house list quickly and there’s some really cool stuff on it. they’ve got probably the best special weapons list out of the core 6 gangs, but only have the heavy flamer in their heavy weapons list as big loud weapons don’t fit their MO, but burning the evidence does. (remember you can still get the rest in the trading post). they’ve got a Flechette pistol, and throwing daggers are in the regular weapons list alongside your standard rifles. they’ve got grav and web weapons in their pistol and special weapons lists as well. won’t detail their brute and pet as they were shown on twitch a few days ago, and later posted all over social media already.
YEAR TWO and even future.
With the core 6 gangs now (functionally) out, and the rulebooks compiled, I’m sure sure you’re all wondering where next. well I can tell you it won’t just be spending year two doing ‘outlanders’. Let me be clear, the gangs from the outlanders expansion WILL be coming. but they will not all be lined up as the next four gangs, there will be other gangs released in amongst them. SG will be keeping up the ‘plastic release every quarter’, but did say that they might not all be gangs. I said would that mean that things like the brutes might be getting plastic kits instead of resin like some of the Blood Bowl big guys, but they wouldn’t give a straight yes or no, only that could. they’ve already got the next two gang kits finished, and all of the main rules/lore stuff written that will be released this year, with the following several years planned out, so its safe to say that Necromunda is going to be supported for quite some time. Also got confirmation that Necromunda stuff will be at the HH weekender, but looks like it will more than likely take a back seat this time round compared to being ‘equal partners’ like this year.
intrigued to know what those 2 gangs are if they arent outlanders.. Maybe genestealer cults and chaos cultists? as in 40k they will have new things
If it comes true will be awesome (I bought all the rules so far but treated them as testing rules, the entire thing would be released again when the last gang of the major 6 came out). Hopefully before Christmas this is released (cause of all presents etc I have to buy for people, I want something for myself, before my extravagance budget runs out).
I don't think he was saying the next two gangs definitely aren't Outlanders, just that Outlanders aren't going to be the next four gangs released one after another, ie they might do Outlander >other > Outlander > other, or a pair of Outlanders and then a break to do other things etc.
Now I'm worried that plastic Brutes means that the next quarter's release will be a single brute, and it'll take 2+ years to get minis for all of them.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Now I'm worried that plastic Brutes means that the next quarter's release will be a single brute, and it'll take 2+ years to get minis for all of them.
Remember that GW didn't say plastic brutes, that was garro putting words in their mouth.
The core rulebook has been completely organised and laid out. The core book has a nice chunk of background and maps at the beginning, and the ‘basic’ and ‘advanced’ rules have been complied into just being ‘rules’. so no more flicking through to find certain parts of the same rules.
the book also has all the GW scenerios, and the domination campaign, as that was decided to be the better and more popular of the two systems.
I'm interested to see if those include the scenarios from the GW1 or the Leader's Accessories Pack. Or rewritten again into a 3rd version. Also, that probably excludes the white dwarf scenarios, so probably will not be a 100% complete collection.
Dominion may very well be better, but I don't think there's much data saying it is more popular. Keep in mind, Turf War campaign was released November 2017. This campaign was the only one played until August 2018, when Dominion was released. That's just 3 months ago. I imagine most players would want to test out the new campaign during this time (having played Turf War for 9 months), so if it is more popular, that could be simply because it is new.
They’ve also took the time to tidy up some language and other things in this as well (will be covered in the FAQs). For example, the ‘pistol’ weapon trait has been renamed ‘sidearm’ so to avoid confusion with the Pistol category in the trading post. same goes for the lower ‘wargear’ title in the house lists being renamed ‘personal equipment’ so the rule “all fighters can take wargear” refers to armour, grenades, and personal equipment clearly.
That's very good, we've seen many complaints about this.
also the reputation restriction on how many champions you can have is completely gone, to match the GSC and Chaos cults lists.
That's somewhat strange actually, because the limitless champs are actually a result of the Dominion Campaign. The cults v1 had the same champ limit as everyone else. They removed that limit for the cults v2 when Dominion campaign was released.
Its important that I say that these compiled books don’t outright invalidate your existing rulebook and gang war books. the rules, as they should be being played, will be staying 99.9% the same. the new books simply collects it all together, takes the opportunity to clear some things up. Personally feel they’re still very much worth it.
I would argue differently. The compiled books completely invalidates and outdates the existing rulebook (almost completely garbage by now) and large parts of the Gang War books. Every time they released a new rules document (book, pdf, white dwarf article) they ALWAYS change something. The longer you look back, the more has changed. If you still decide to use the existing books instead of the new compilation, be aware that you'll have numerous contradictions and conflicts, which means if you don't know what exactly book AND page to look for a certain weapon stat, trait, skill, cost, scenario or anything else, chances are you're getting incorrect information. There's also many changes in the new compilation that you can't find anywhere in any existing publication.
For those who have been collecting the various Gang War publications, don’t worry – you’ll receive a free booklet featuring the Delaque rules in December’s issue of White Dwarf!
Insane Ivan wrote: I wonder if, with these new rulebooks, they will also discontinue the Necromunda starter box, and release the tiles separately?
They might release the tiles separately, but the Underhive box is still a good one-stop starter box and represents a discount over buying everything separately. I wouldn't expect Underhive to be discontinued unless a new starter box came out (which is possible if they go with a "season two" theme for next year's releases)
I'd like to see the Necromunda take a page from Kill Team. I wouldn't say no to mission cards, themed killzones, and not having to go through Forge World.
For those who have been collecting the various Gang War publications, don’t worry – you’ll receive a free booklet featuring the Delaque rules in December’s issue of White Dwarf!
Hopefully the Delaque booklet rules will be identical to those of the compendium. If not, it's Necromunda as usual.
H.B.M.C. wrote: How much taller are these Dalque's compared to other Necromunda miniatures? Are they Primaris sized as well?
And this time I'm getting the dice. Held off on every faction, waiting for Delaque dice.
I'm guesstimating based on the bases and some shonky work in MSPaint, but they look to be somewhere around 34-35mm tall, compared to the 32mm modern "baseline" human, while Primaris are up in the 40mm range.
TBH I was a bit put off by it at first, but I'm now more hyped about this one gang than I was to hear Necromunda was coming back in the first place. My only worry is how I'm going to get gangers holding more basic rifle weapons two-handed - with Goliaths I could crack on with converting stuff right away since they have a good mix of arm poses on the sprue, but there doesn't look to be a single set of basic "holding a gun with both hands" or "aiming a gun" type poses for Delaque.
For those who have been collecting the various Gang War publications, don’t worry – you’ll receive a free booklet featuring the Delaque rules in December’s issue of White Dwarf!
Wierd thing to say - anyone who buys white Dwarf gets that right?
Will likely pick up the collected editions as stopped getting Gang War as they were such a mess.
Yeah, but not often recently and seeing as the last few gangs needed a GW book, this one breaking the trend is odd.
Or good at least. Maybe they're starting to feel frustration from the shop floor regarding the sheer quantity of books needed so far....
Back in the day (set my Zimmer frame aside) there was free rules and resources on WD almost every issue. Funny old thing, it made me go out and buy models and gak. Funny that.
Davidian wrote: Yeah, but not often recently and seeing as the last few gangs needed a GW book, this one breaking the trend is odd.
Or good at least. Maybe they're starting to feel frustration from the shop floor regarding the sheer quantity of books needed so far....
Back in the day (set my Zimmer frame aside) there was free rules and resources on WD almost every issue. Funny old thing, it made me go out and buy models and gak. Funny that.
They have more free rules in WD today then they ever had, at least back when I was reading it last (late 90s). Often there are rules for several games in an issue. Campaigns for LotR, new rules for their board games, gangs for Necromunda, balls for Blood Bowl, scenarios for various games, stuff like that... the big difference is that they don't really do free rules for AoS or 40k, only for the smaller games, which is a shame.
So just under 50 quid together from a discounter. Not cheap certainly, but not unexpected given GW's typical hardback prices. I really hope we get some genuine, honest pre-release reviews(rather than shill'y "previews") because given the issues so far I kinda want to know in advance that they're not riddled with typos and misprints.
I’d imagine more likely regarding the Starter box is they would put the new £35 rule book in place of the one in there..
Or potentially even just leave the box having the older rulebook as in their eyes it was “99.9% still usable/valid” or whatever they said.
I’d say there won’t be a new starter box with year two gangs, as the new things coming from outlanders and beyond are more offshoot and unusual than base 6.
Though an expansion box with two new groups/gangs and some variant scenery (plastic style stuff maybe), Without the rulebook, I could see that.
(Like Rogue Trader for Kill Team did perhaps?)
They could include the new Rulebook and a sheet describing the skills and personal equipment on the fighter cards and an instruction to pick up the Gangs of the Underhive book if you wish to expand.
I mean, you could just make a slipcase yourself with a printer and a few pennies worth of paper & cardstock.
Sometimes I "get" why people find limited editions appealing(even as I find the entire concept of using artificial scarcity to imbue objects with a sense of false exclusivity - and everything that whole "I have something you don't because money, neener neener" sentiment implies - vomit-inducing), but when it's stuff like "Oh yeah you get...err...a bookmark?" or slipcases etc, I just can't see the point.
The cheapest I can find that might be suitable is 9x A4 sheets of 2mm thick card, for £4.74 I'll need at least three sheets for a Necromunda slipcase. Then I'll need some good quality black paper to cover it with, and a couple of sheets of good gloss-finish paper to print the outer sides with. Easier to just buy the set from GW, as I'd be ordering the two books anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, I might pick up some of that card - it'll be handy for printing additional tiles for Space Hulk and the like.
Nothing wrong with a snazzier but more expensive option that (in your opinion) makes your stuff look cooler,
and generally if I liked one of these LE deals and could afford it i'd probably go for it even if it was limited, it's much more about the cool thing I get rather than having something that others can't, especially something as ephemeral as a codex
(i'd have got the LE Genestealer cult one if I hadn't needed my cash for the new minis at the time)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Nothing wrong with a snazzier but more expensive option that (in your opinion) makes your stuff look cooler,
and generally if I liked one of these LE deals and could afford it i'd probably go for it even if it was limited, it's much more about the cool thing I get rather than having something that others can't, especially something as ephemeral as a codex
(i'd have got the LE Genestealer cult one if I hadn't needed my cash for the new minis at the time)
I don't have a problem with collector editions, I have a problem with limited editions. Some people want the fancy hardback, some folk are happy with the paperback, cool each to their own, the problem arises when it stops being about offering choice and becomes about trying to play on snobbery and FOMO to drive extra sales. Which isn't to say that everyone who buys limited editions is a snob, just that limited editions are designed to appeal to snobby people since they can have not just a "better" version, but more importantly a "better" version that many other people can't have.
AndrewGPaul wrote: The cheapest I can find that might be suitable is 9x A4 sheets of 2mm thick card, for £4.74 I'll need at least three sheets for a Necromunda slipcase. Then I'll need some good quality black paper to cover it with, and a couple of sheets of good gloss-finish paper to print the outer sides with. Easier to just buy the set from GW, as I'd be ordering the two books anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, I might pick up some of that card - it'll be handy for printing additional tiles for Space Hulk and the like.
I'd buy cheaper, thinner cardstock and laminate it together to the desired thickness(this often ends up cheaper, I suspect because the thinner stuff is what schools tend to buy in bulk and leftover overproduction gets shifted to arts & crafts brands), clad it in regular printer paper with whatever design you want, then seal that with a layer of non-yellowing sticky back plastic.For a slipcase, you'd be better buying large sheets and plotting out a pattern that's designed to fold up to give the final shape. Hell, if you're also going to clad the interior facing, you could get away with recycling cereal box cardboard for the structural part.
The slipcased set price hasn't been announced, has it? I've seen the prices for each book separately earlier in this thread, but not for the limited edition.
When this has been done previously, Horus Heresy book 3 came with a slipcase but also the two original army list books and an additional art book. Imperial Armour book 10 didn't charge anything, IIRC, of the slipcase for the two Badab War books.
Yodhrin wrote: So just under 50 quid together from a discounter. Not cheap certainly, but not unexpected given GW's typical hardback prices. I really hope we get some genuine, honest pre-release reviews(rather than shill'y "previews") because given the issues so far I kinda want to know in advance that they're not riddled with typos and misprints.
-Hi, today I'm gonna review the new awesome Necromunda rule book compilations!
-Wow, look at this artwork.
*ignores conflicting rules*
-All existing rules are included.
*ignores left out rules and rules that have changed*
-And new content for Delaque, great!
*ignores contradictions*
-All in all, looks like another descent book. Thanks for watching.
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AndrewGPaul wrote: They could include the new Rulebook and a sheet describing the skills and personal equipment on the fighter cards and an instruction to pick up the Gangs of the Underhive book if you wish to expand.
Update on this the dollar prices might be Canadian in which case the GBP price is £30 and £25 respectively.
BoLS is the original source need to wait for another source like Faeit who back up the prices with price list images. They have the Delaque gang price correct at $40 but that was already known but the Battleforces appear to be Canadian prices (or GW bumped the price)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Nothing wrong with a snazzier but more expensive option that (in your opinion) makes your stuff look cooler,
and generally if I liked one of these LE deals and could afford it i'd probably go for it even if it was limited, it's much more about the cool thing I get rather than having something that others can't, especially something as ephemeral as a codex
(i'd have got the LE Genestealer cult one if I hadn't needed my cash for the new minis at the time)
I don't have a problem with collector editions, I have a problem with limited editions. Some people want the fancy hardback, some folk are happy with the paperback, cool each to their own, the problem arises when it stops being about offering choice and becomes about trying to play on snobbery and FOMO to drive extra sales. Which isn't to say that everyone who buys limited editions is a snob, just that limited editions are designed to appeal to snobby people since they can have not just a "better" version, but more importantly a "better" version that many other people can't have.
AndrewGPaul wrote: The cheapest I can find that might be suitable is 9x A4 sheets of 2mm thick card, for £4.74 I'll need at least three sheets for a Necromunda slipcase. Then I'll need some good quality black paper to cover it with, and a couple of sheets of good gloss-finish paper to print the outer sides with. Easier to just buy the set from GW, as I'd be ordering the two books anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, I might pick up some of that card - it'll be handy for printing additional tiles for Space Hulk and the like.
I'd buy cheaper, thinner cardstock and laminate it together to the desired thickness(this often ends up cheaper, I suspect because the thinner stuff is what schools tend to buy in bulk and leftover overproduction gets shifted to arts & crafts brands), clad it in regular printer paper with whatever design you want, then seal that with a layer of non-yellowing sticky back plastic.For a slipcase, you'd be better buying large sheets and plotting out a pattern that's designed to fold up to give the final shape. Hell, if you're also going to clad the interior facing, you could get away with recycling cereal box cardboard for the structural part.
I've bought a fair number of limited editions models, but purely cos I want to have a complete collection of models, and feel pissed off when I miss one. So I think snobbery is a reason people get LE stuff, but another reason is that they are a bloody limited aspect of a collection- if you want the collection, you've got to get your mitts on the LE.
Of course, models are harder to replicate than cardstock.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Nothing wrong with a snazzier but more expensive option that (in your opinion) makes your stuff look cooler,
and generally if I liked one of these LE deals and could afford it i'd probably go for it even if it was limited, it's much more about the cool thing I get rather than having something that others can't, especially something as ephemeral as a codex
(i'd have got the LE Genestealer cult one if I hadn't needed my cash for the new minis at the time)
I don't have a problem with collector editions, I have a problem with limited editions. Some people want the fancy hardback, some folk are happy with the paperback, cool each to their own, the problem arises when it stops being about offering choice and becomes about trying to play on snobbery and FOMO to drive extra sales. Which isn't to say that everyone who buys limited editions is a snob, just that limited editions are designed to appeal to snobby people since they can have not just a "better" version, but more importantly a "better" version that many other people can't have.
AndrewGPaul wrote: The cheapest I can find that might be suitable is 9x A4 sheets of 2mm thick card, for £4.74 I'll need at least three sheets for a Necromunda slipcase. Then I'll need some good quality black paper to cover it with, and a couple of sheets of good gloss-finish paper to print the outer sides with. Easier to just buy the set from GW, as I'd be ordering the two books anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, I might pick up some of that card - it'll be handy for printing additional tiles for Space Hulk and the like.
I'd buy cheaper, thinner cardstock and laminate it together to the desired thickness(this often ends up cheaper, I suspect because the thinner stuff is what schools tend to buy in bulk and leftover overproduction gets shifted to arts & crafts brands), clad it in regular printer paper with whatever design you want, then seal that with a layer of non-yellowing sticky back plastic.For a slipcase, you'd be better buying large sheets and plotting out a pattern that's designed to fold up to give the final shape. Hell, if you're also going to clad the interior facing, you could get away with recycling cereal box cardboard for the structural part.
I've bought a fair number of limited editions models, but purely cos I want to have a complete collection of models, and feel pissed off when I miss one. So I think snobbery is a reason people get LE stuff, but another reason is that they are a bloody limited aspect of a collection- if you want the collection, you've got to get your mitts on the LE.
Of course, models are harder to replicate than cardstock.
Well yes, so you've correctly identified the reason I don't like limited editions, because not everyone can complete the collection when parts of it are limited availability. By the time the snobs and the folk with enough disposable cash on hand and the ebay scalperscum have had their turn, there's rarely any left for the plebs who have to work to a budget, and if they just dropped the artificial scarcity nonsense the only people losing out are the snobs and the scalperscum, so everybody wins.
Well yes, so you've correctly identified the reason I don't like limited editions, because not everyone can complete the collection when parts of it are limited availability. By the time the snobs and the folk with enough disposable cash on hand and the ebay scalperscum have had their turn, there's rarely any left for the plebs who have to work to a budget, and if they just dropped the artificial scarcity nonsense the only people losing out are the snobs and the scalperscum, so everybody wins.
Oh, yeah, I don't like them either! My hobby budget for the month has been snatched by a LE I didn't want to miss on more than one occasion, that has resulted in me delaying plans that I thought were safer to hold off on.
Update on this the dollar prices might be Canadian in which case the GBP price is £30 and £25 respectively.
BoLS is the original source need to wait for another source like Faeit who back up the prices with price list images. They have the Delaque gang price correct at $40 but that was already known but the Battleforces appear to be Canadian prices (or GW bumped the price)
OK ignore my last post prices are now confirmed per my original post (£35 and £30). Still no word on the price for the slip case set.
I am a fanboy and will probably buy the slipcase version.
Heck, I even bought the LE Genestealer cult one because the hazard stripes on it reminded me of Necromunda
Looks like the the cloaks will have a lot of seams and such to fill in once done gluing. They did a terrible job at showing us the sprue on that livestream last week. I am intrigued by the apparent confirmation of more plastics next year though.
I do think there will be another compilation book anually just like blood bowl. If you already have all the gang war books you might wanna wait for the compilation 2.0 or god knows what in another year from now. This is one of the things that drives me nuts about gw games. I kinda hope they move to a cheaper spike magazine style of expansions going forward. Im still probably gonna get both of these new books but I know it ain't gonna end there.
Thargrim wrote: Looks like the the cloaks will have a lot of seams and such to fill in once done gluing. They did a terrible job at showing us the sprue on that livestream last week. I am intrigued by the apparent confirmation of more plastics next year though.
I do think there will be another compilation book anually just like blood bowl. If you already have all the gang war books you might wanna wait for the compilation 2.0 or god knows what in another year from now. This is one of the things that drives me nuts about gw games. I kinda hope they move to a cheaper spike magazine style of expansions going forward. Im still probably gonna get both of these new books but I know it ain't gonna end there.
Think of it as a "reverse auction", like publishing hardback novels first at a higher price. I mean, you could wait until Christmas 2019 and get a compilation of everything released in 2019, but you won't be able to play with any of that stuff in the meantime. YMMV as to what's more important.
No no no, they can't keep changing the core rules. What we get now is the final basis of the game, what future expansions will build on. What we will see in the future may be magazines similar to Blood Bowl's Spike, but they're gonna expand, not replace what we already got. So you won't see a compilation version 2.0, but we may see a 2nd compilation with all new stuff collected. Just like Blood Bowl is now getting a 2nd almanac, not replacing or changing anything in the core rules, but adding and expanding.
Danny76 wrote: I’d imagine more likely regarding the Starter box is they would put the new £35 rule book in place of the one in there..
Or potentially even just leave the box having the older rulebook as in their eyes it was “99.9% still usable/valid” or whatever they said
Given that the 'starter box' is marketed as a self contained game, there's almost no way they're replacing the content of that box. It has it's own odd rules(that didn't make the rest any clearer) for running it as a one off board game. I hope those aren't cluttering up the new books myself, it'd save a bit of space and help massively with the confusing rules design if they didn't need to be kept separate.
Sorry I haven't read all the responses since was released that my favourite gang is finally coming out (bought everything Necro so far but been waiting for them). Just saw today (I work a lot).
Australian Prices
So if I'm correct the Delaque box, dice and cards will be $115 (as has been normal for all gangs).
Anyone have an average price on:
Rulebook?
Gang of Under Hive?
Special Slip Case Edition?
The prices mentioned already in the previous page of this thread are $60 and $50 for the individual books; it's not clear whether that's USD or CAD, though. We'll find out for sure in three day's time.
AndrewGPaul wrote: They've already said that the new rulebook is laid out differently - the "basic / advanced rules" split is gone.
Yeah but that's the layout, how the rules are ordered. In addition, we will see massive changes compared to the original rule book. Most notably, much of the content of the original boxed rulebook will be deleted, they will simply be excluded in the "full" Necromunda rules set. For example we will no longer have the skills, scenarios, Escher & Goliath gang pages, weapon stats, costs, trading post and armoury from the original rulebook. Change in the layout (no more basic / advanced sections) is of course also a good thing.
The All-new, All-singing, All-dancing Necromunda Rulebook
The shiny, new, 192-page hardback Necromunda Rulebook that’s up for pre-order on Saturday compiles all of the core rules released to date in a single volume. If you’re a fan of ultra-violent gang warfare in the underhive, or are looking for an excuse to finally get involved, then this book has everything you need to learn and play the game, develop your gang and even arbitrate a campaign with your gaming group! Here’s the lowdown of the full contents of the rulebook…
The book kicks off with a detailed background section that introduces the setting of the game, from the anatomy of the hive spire itself to the six Clan Houses that vie for dominance of its underhive. Building upon the foundations of its predecessor in Necromunda: Underhive, the new rulebook then introduces the full game rules, compiling all the additional core rules content previously only available in Gang War issues 1-4. This includes guidelines on how to run a standard Dominion campaign:
There are also a total of 12 standard scenarios to play – six using Sector Mechanicus terrain and six set on a Zone Mortalis battlefield – and a further 13 (including two multiplayer) scenarios in the Arbitrator Tools section, which builds upon the Dominion rules and helps you run your very own campaign. After all, campaigns are awesome fun to take part in, and many players find running their own bespoke campaign the most rewarding way to play the game. If you’re after further guidance, be sure to check out the Arbitrator’s Guidebook article series on the Warhammer Community website and get engaged on the Necromunda Facebook page.
The Necromunda Rulebook also incorporates all the amendments made via errata released to date and provides additional clarity to tidy up any FAQs. When combined with the gang rosters, full Trading Post and wargear rules found in Necromunda Gangs of the Underhive, you’ll have everything you need to play and develop your gang, trade archeotech for rare and exotic weaponry, and carve out your own underhive empire. It presents a great way for new players to get started or for veterans of Necromunda to collate all of their resources into a handy two-piece of rules manual and companion book.
This hardback book is available separately, but you can instead pick up the limited Slipcase Edition that includes both the Necromunda Rulebook and Necromunda Gangs of the Underhive.
However, if you seek to cast aside your allegiance to the Clan Houses, you can even throw in your lot with a Genestealer or Chaos Cult – free downloadable PDFs for which can be found here:
Do you have a favourite gang (or cult), such as the agents of House Delaque who are also available to pre-order this weekend? If so, let us know in the Facebook comments.
So we'll get the 12 scenarios from GLAP (Gang Leader's Accessories Pack) plus some of the scenarios from the GW books (Gang War 3,4). 13 scenarios including the 2 multiplayer scenarios.
White Dwarf scenarios probably excluded: 12) Claim the Spire (3d) 13) The Gauntlet (2d)
Then we have 16 remaining scenarios, but only 11 of these will be included in the compilation: 14) Last Stand 15) Escape the Pit! 16) Downtown Dust-up 17) Shoot-out 18) Caravan Heist 19) Spook Harvest 20) In the Dark 21) Archaed Hunters 22) Prison Break 23) Monster Hunt 26) The Hit 27) Settlement Attack 28) Escape! 29) Murder Cyborg 30) Escort Mission 31) Fighter Down
Always said the game needed more scenarios. Having them in one place will be good.
Now... will they be different to the Gang Leader Pack missions? Will they be explicit in how you pick gangs (some say "use the rules for random selection", and then the rules for random selection will say "the mission will tell you how many to randomly pick from" in and endless loop of mis-written rules).
What the little preview seen, it seems the 12 scenarios may be identical or almost identical to the GLAP 12 scenarios. The rest of the scenarios certainly need some tweaking as you say. Some with minor details, some need more change. I actually asked one of the game developers about the case you point out, but didn't get any satisfying reply, only "refer to the other place" as you say...
Two reasons I can think of. Those two gangs might get revised again in future, especially if they start to explore some of the setting outside of the Hive Primus undercity. Or they wouldn't fit in the book. Those two PDFs come to 25 pages, plus presumably another dozen for the Venators. If the Gangs of the Underhive book is 192 pages like the Rulebook, adding that material would take it up to 232 pages (IIRC, you add pages to a book in multiples of 8 due to the way the sheets are printed, folded, cut and bound); This may or may not be feasible.
Hopefully as some sort of hired gun that doesn't appear every game, rather than just adding them as a Brute or the like. I mean, they're nowhere near their 2nd ed 40k level, but I don't want to be seeing them every time
*Compilation may not actually compile all the rules.
It's a compilation of the gang war books, not sure what else people expected. Until there's a necromunda branded kit with genestealer cult or chaos cult on it just be glad they're letting you download the things rather than having to track down old white dwarves.
I think Cultists and Genstealers are not in the main book because they don't have any Necromunda brand boxed sets.They are currently addon rules that allow you to use models from another game brand in this game.
GW might keep it like this and let the Necromunda team focus on adding "pure" Necromunda factions and forces; or they might address it by giving both of those factions their own unique Necromunda style models and boxes.
Grinshanks wrote: Am I being thick, or does the new gangs of the underhive book NOT include GSC or Chaos Cults, which remain download only?
The Compilation books that Games Workshop makes never include everything. Check out Blood Bowl, there are stuff that's missing there too!
For Necromunda, Games Workshop decided to skip some content: -Turf War -At least 5 scenarios (we don't know which yet) -White Dwarf scenarios -GSC, Chaos, Bounty Hunter gang
When the book is released, we may find more that they left out too. There may be some validity to having a personal compilation (of EVERYTHING) after all... The main benefit with these compilation books is actually that they reset the rules and release a complete game at version 1.0 like they should have from the start. What we've seen so for looks promising, which means you don't have to tweak the core mechanics just to make it work, and hopefully generate less questions and discussions about how the game is supposed to work with all the broken rules and all. A secondary bonus is that we get them compiled in one document, so we don't have multiple books and countless reprints of the same skills, armoury, trading post and so forth.
They never cared to admit it. They could very well have included both, I know I have in my compilation and I think Aarhun did so too in the reddit compilation. With the exclusion of Turf War campaign in the official compilation, it seems you are right when you say Turf War is deprecated. Up until the preview, this was only speculation.
The thing about Turf War was it seemed a little...thin. Like, do we really need a framework for what amounts to a neverending campaign? We never used to before with the original and Mordheim, folk just set some arbitrary limit of gang/warband rating after which a gang would be retired and restarted/replaced and then played.
Dominion, by contrast, is useful. It provides the kind of defined and contained experience we used to have to rely on fan-made supplements for.
I don't argue that not having Turf War in there is a reduction in value compared to a "true" compilation...but it seems to me like it was fat that could be cut without really negatively effecting the final product. Besides which, there will be a fan-made "Lawn Conflict" version floating around within a couple of months most likely.
Overread wrote: I think Cultists and Genstealers are not in the main book because they don't have any Necromunda brand boxed sets.They are currently addon rules that allow you to use models from another game brand in this game.
GW might keep it like this and let the Necromunda team focus on adding "pure" Necromunda factions and forces; or they might address it by giving both of those factions their own unique Necromunda style models and boxes.
I think they are not in the main book because GW loves to put out books every few months so why give it for free when they can charge another $40-60 for it in a future book when they include a little more new content. I am sceptical about buying the rulebook as i think they may put out a new box set with a condensed paperback rules included in a few months. Then will they not only have got me for 4 Gang war books and the original box set but also for an extra 60 on a new rule book.
If you buy the rulebook tomorrow and then a new box set with paperback rulebook comes out, you've not lost out - unless you want another copy of the miniatures and tiles from the box set.
AndrewGPaul wrote: If you buy the rulebook tomorrow and then a new box set with paperback rulebook comes out, you've not lost out - unless you want another copy of the miniatures and tiles from the box set.
Considering they keep everything in the box the same. I honestly think they may introduce the non-gang types through a box with possible a gang as I think they are using the badzone delta 7 tiles? for the new book? I don't have any confirmation on this yet. But that would make not only the rules but also the tiles invalid.
You are correct if they keep everything the same then it would be a waste, however, if they were to say release a softback rulebook with a gang (Delaque would be a strong strategy here as they are getting a WD printing) and like a cultist or genestealer cultist or possibly maybe even a new nemesis in a boxed set in Q1 or Q2 with different tiles then i might also have thrown even more money into the pit of non recover (GW publications). If it were to be say a new set with Delaque and chaos cultists or cult of redemption, pit slaves, or ratskins. I could see this being a feasible Q1 release.
It is the main reason I will probably only get the rulebook and skip the Gangs book entirely atleast to keep some shred of sanity at the rate GW keeps invalidating its previous publications I am surprised the ink is even dry.
Chaos cults and gsc aren't in the book because they are not the final form of those gangs. The warhammer community page had an interview where they said that reason
It is the main reason I will probably only get the rulebook and skip the Gangs book entirely atleast to keep some shred of sanity at the rate GW keeps invalidating its previous publications I am surprised the ink is even dry.
That's why these 2 books are so important. We get a solid foundation that future expansions can expand upon, instead of invalidate! The state we'll be in after this complete rules reset is similar to the original Necromunda. A basis for core rule mechanics and 6 house gangs.
Will the WD Delaque follow the original format or the updated format, which would make them useless to owners of the old books (and, obviously, redundant to owners of the compendium).
lord_blackfang wrote: So here's an interesting thought.
Will the WD Delaque follow the original format or the updated format, which would make them useless to owners of the old books (and, obviously, redundant to owners of the compendium).
Or some random third format since no gang material has been released in a slim, standalone book, and who knows what production team worked on it. Fun!
Any eta on the resin cawdor weapons? Seems like those take forever to get released. Sucks for people starting Delaque as well cause theirs probably won't be out till march or something crazy.
Going by the New Zealand site the slipcase edition is the same price as both books together £55 $110 and is limited to 1200 copies - not sure if that's a regional limit or overall but expect it to go fast.
Looking at them properly I love them even more...but it's still really disappointing there are no options for having any of the rifle weapons held two-handed or aimed. Even the warband's signature "heavy" gun is just slung on a back-carrier :/
I'd say I hope the FW set will fix it, but A; I'm not sure if they do different poses, or just the existing arms with different guns swapped on? and B; they probably won't have room in the kits once you count all the hand flamers...
EDIT: I will say though - it's a fantastic touch that the heaviest armour panels on their battle-trenchcoats is on the back
DaveC wrote: Going by the New Zealand site the slipcase edition is the same price as both books together £55 $110 and is limited to 1200 copies - not sure if that's a regional limit or overall but expect it to go fast.
Weird that they took the pic of the BACK of the slipcase edition. The artwork shown on the books does not appear on the front of the books, so those must be the backs of the books.
That gang price is shocking... The "colonial" tax in the US for a Necromunda gang is 57% (20£ (non-VAT) to $40). The "colonial" tax in NZ for a Necromunda gang is 90% (20 pounds to $70.55-both prices shown without their respective VATs).
They're really excellent looking miniatures with some really cool weapon designs. Is the web thing like a web gauntlet? I can't really make out what it is.
I also wish the GW website listed the weapons that are in there. It's hard to tell what most things are.
Still look nothing like Delaques, but they're very pretty.
The ranged weapons seem to be:
1 long rifle
1 suppressed autogun
1 shotgun
1 flechette blaster
3 suppressed autopistols
1 hand flamer
1 laspistol
1 grav pistol
2 suppressed pistols that are subtly different to the autopistols. Flechette pistols perhaps?
1 holstered pistol
The stub pistols look kinda like the autopistols. The web gauntlet is cool though, hopefully the resin fw kit has one actually on the arm and in use. The resin heavy flamer was already confirmed. Do delaques get regular lasguns on their house list? I'm inclined to think not.
I think with a little converseion work you could actually swap around alot of those torsos so not all the girls will be hunched. I find the necromunda kits actually chop up and convert quite well, managed to make crouching escher and cawdor from the kits for pose variety, as well as some stepping up onto objects poses with some smart cutting at the knee joints. Delaque will likely be toughest, though if you are good with green stuff you could likely open up the coats. In fact the way some of the coats appear to go together you could likely easily cut back into them, or bend the bottom halves should you want more underneath shown.
Biggest bumber is I think rifle is in a full bag/holster so cant really be converted easily to be being held though if the guns are modular you might be able to reconstruct it with the barrel from the sniper, Shotgun looks like best piece to do this with.
So there are ebook versions of the Necromunda books finally which is good news, especially as the ebook are much cheaper here. Pricing is bizarre though. Physical rulebook €8100, ebook ¥4800, physical gangs book ¥6900, ebook ¥5800! What's up with that?
I found it unusual that you get a discount for buying the limited slipcase edition. In Aus I ordered it for only $180, while if I ordered the new rule book ($98) and the Gangs of the Underhive ($84) individually it would have been $182. Most times it would have been the same price or a little more, so I was happy about that. I also thought it was gunna be around $200 (looking at the NZ this morning and comparing to Aud) so was happy with the $180 price point.
Also, the epub versions are below the exchange rate in NZ.
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Spectral Ceramite wrote: I found it unusual that you get a discount for buying the limited slipcase edition. In Aus I ordered it for only $180, while if I ordered the new rule book ($98) and the Gangs of the Underhive ($84) individually it would have been $182. Most times it would have been the same price or a little more, so I was happy about that. I also thought it was gunna be around $200 (looking at the NZ this morning and comparing to Aud) so was happy with the $180 price point.
I was expecting that; wasn't sure why most people seemed to think otherwise. Most of their book bundle deals work out a little cheaper than buying them all separately. You're doing better than us in the UK, where the slipcase edition is the same price as both books individually.
Yodhrin wrote: Looking at them properly I love them even more...but it's still really disappointing there are no options for having any of the rifle weapons held two-handed or aimed. Even the warband's signature "heavy" gun is just slung on a back-carrier :/
I'd say I hope the FW set will fix it, but A; I'm not sure if they do different poses, or just the existing arms with different guns swapped on? and B; they probably won't have room in the kits once you count all the hand flamers...
EDIT: I will say though - it's a fantastic touch that the heaviest armour panels on their battle-trenchcoats is on the back
And most long guns are in holsters The perfect covered-ops design for Imperial guns and they're covered up. Cutting arms up or swap them for shooting poses is easier, so if FW gives a decent selection of guns I will actually buy something from them, postage be damned.
The poses make me think that at least on of FW's designers doesn't believe shooting poses are worth it, Cawdor has basically zero (unless you count slightly-levelled-pistol as shooting) and Delaque are not better. Grenade throwing and showing your new gear is cool and all, but it wouldn't hurt to have someone actually shooting, would it. At least reposing arms is easier than resculpting gun bodies.
Overall I have to say I really like their look and will get them, but as a kit it is kinda bad. I hope FW will do a second sprue per gang one day for juvies and more options for the existibg gangers.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Also, the epub versions are below the exchange rate in NZ.
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Spectral Ceramite wrote: I found it unusual that you get a discount for buying the limited slipcase edition. In Aus I ordered it for only $180, while if I ordered the new rule book ($98) and the Gangs of the Underhive ($84) individually it would have been $182. Most times it would have been the same price or a little more, so I was happy about that. I also thought it was gunna be around $200 (looking at the NZ this morning and comparing to Aud) so was happy with the $180 price point.
I was expecting that; wasn't sure why most people seemed to think otherwise. Most of their book bundle deals work out a little cheaper than buying them all separately. You're doing better than us in the UK, where the slipcase edition is the same price as both books individually.
Ye I Look at NZ price point first cause is first released on the day of release for pre-orders (unless someone else says their country is first).
The consolidated book deal has not been like that in Aus ever. Is always same cost or $1 or $2 more expensive (obviously special additions are double the cost).
EDIT: I personally think Necromunda isn't selling as well as hoped so projecting it at a lower sales point (though the Delaque/cards and dice still cost me the same as other gangs)
The consolidated book deal has not been like that in Aus ever. Is always same cost or $1 or $2 more expensive (obviously special additions are double the cost).
EDIT: I personally think Necromunda isn't selling as well as hoped so projecting it at a lower sales point (though the Delaque/cards and dice still cost me the same as other gangs)
I just looked at the Australian prices for the Horus Heresy books; all the bundle deals there are cheaper than the cost of the individual books (for example, HH black books 1, 2, 3 are 180, 180,180 AUD. The bundle of three is 390 rather than 550).
To be honest, the fact that the Necromunda bundle costs less in Australia rather than being the same price is just an artefact of their price conversion.
Excellent! The lack of digital books for this game had vastly annoyed me previously.
The use of digital books is an abomination, print is the only valid way to go. Not only is it far batter to handle and to switch back and forth but also does it conserve information much more secure - the amound of decayed data in Epubs is to damn high.
The use of digital books is an abomination, print is the only valid way to go. Not only is it far batter to handle and to switch back and forth but also does it conserve information much more secure - the amound of decayed data in Epubs is to damn high.
The use of digital books is an abomination, print is the only valid way to go. Not only is it far batter to handle and to switch back and forth but also does it conserve information much more secure - the amound of decayed data in Epubs is to damn high.
Pfff. Chalk and paper, modern hum-buck, that stuff will never catch on. Stick to clay tablets, that stuff is far superior. Wait a sec, writing?! That is work of the wicked, only way to remember the deeds of our heroes is through oral traditions.
fantastic. Never was a fan of the old ones, they sat down in the sump with Goliath for me. These though? These look uniquely 
The perfect covered-ops design for Imperial guns and they're covered up. Cutting arms up or swap them for shooting poses is easier, so if 
