Say what you will about Prodos, but the quality is there in their casts. Those figures do look really nice, too. I wouldn't mind getting my mitts on the Sundown Enforcers.
SPM said that they would use the Legends KS to streamline the (gakky, bloated, slow, unplaytested) FK rules to speed gameplay. They spend months with their thumbs up their butts until backer revolt forces them to do something.
No problem, Deke gaks out a turd of a Beta, with radically new mechanics, totally broken balance, zero playtesting, and gets called on it. Deke gaks out more gakky Betas, randomly changing all sorts of things, and backers are like "WTF?" as they see the rules whipsawing all over the place with no rhyme or reason.
SPM then hires an actual rules designer (Justin) and tasks him with unfething what Deke wrought. It takes him a month to do that, and the result requires new components that are not present in FK. Justin declares victory, as it's no longer pure gak if you play it the way that he intends. I tapped out during this time, as the game was clearly not going to be anything that I had wanted to play.
Justin then turns his eye toward co-op Arcade mode, and revamps that along similar lines. I didn't follow this, but assume it's broadly similar.
tl;dr If you started playing the original version or Forgotten King "Classic", the Legends rewrites of the rules are nothing like either of those. Further, it appears the new play aids won't be provided to existing / previous backers. It's probably slightly faster, but not necessarily smoother.
Ever since we announced Relic Knights: 2nd Edition, one of the most common questions we’ve received is, “what about model quality?” In our initial announcement article, we talked about the steps we have been taking to ensure that your Relic Knights: 2nd Edition experience is dominated by the stunning models your battlefield deserves.
Today we’re going a step further to show you some samples of actual resin production models from the 2-Player Starter set. The models are still on the sprue and have not received any cleanup. They’re also blown-up significantly larger than the actual physical pieces—far larger than the actual piece is in real life. Despite this, the detail holds up to remarkable levels. The quality captured speaks for itself, so let’s get straight to the pictures!
We start off with one of the burly Sundown Enforcers that make up Bang-Bang’s Radiant Cadre. A squad of three Sundown Enforcers are included in the 2-Player Starter. Each model is big and burly standing on a 40mm base. This model is entirely single-cast. All you need to do is glue it to its base and it’s read to play and paint. You can see the incredible detail captured on the model including the armor’s detailing and even the little chips and scratches suffered in battle.
Next is a Dark Pinion, part of Tahariel’s Void Cadre. A squad of three Dark Pinions are included in the 2-Player Starter. Once again this model is single-cast and ready to see action. Like the Enforcer, the Dark Pinion has lots of different layers to its armor that show up brilliantly in the cast with nice clean edges and even undercuts. Of particular notice is the circle detailing on the hip which not only is nice and clean, but has a very delicate inset circle that is captured perfectly.
The Radiant Questing Knight, Bang-Bang is a gunslinger extraordinaire and displays some extraordinary detail befitting such a personality. In contrast to the Sundown Enforcers and Dark Pinions, which are all hard edges and armor, Bang-Bang is all about graceful curves and soft fabrics. Of particular note are the creases in her shorts, and at the shoulders and elbows of her jacket. These are small, delicate creases on a model that is only 32mm tall and nonetheless translate perfectly from the sculpt we previewed earlier. The skirt of the jacket on the back-angle also shows some very subtle depth and movement from the gather along the hips to the slight tug of the fabric along the bottom of the jacket’s trim. Let’s not forget those perfectly sculpted abs and belly button. Bang-Bang has done a crunch or 10 in her time we wager. Bang-Bang also has some very delicate hard detail, such as the bullets around her boots, the sheriff-star belt buckle, and her six-shooters. The guns are particularly notable as they are tiny pieces, but you can easily make out the detail of the hammer, cylinder, and sights.
The Void Questing Knight, Tahariel is a simply stunning. She also demonstrates how well multiple types of detail are captured. The hard lines of her staff’s headpiece are sharp and well defined, including the thin and delicate components that overlap. The soft folds of her robe are soft and luxurious, and the subtle creases in her stockings are evident with clarity. Of particular note is Tahariel’s face. Her eyes, eye brows, and mouth are all easily visible and beautifully represented. Even the small nose, which is characteristic of Relic Knight’s anime influences, is realized perfectly.
As you can see, we’ve put an incredible amount of care and love into revitalizing Relic Knight’s signature look and making sure the models delivered to you are true representations of the art, expertly translate from sculpt to model, and are breathtaking to behold. We look forward to showing you even more exciting Relic Knights content on our Kickstarter, February 27, 3:00pm EST.
Be sure to sign up for a reminder email so you can be there from the beginning!
WOW!
Those are a BIG improvement over RK 1.0 miniatures.
And these are...Prodos' Unicast then?
I mean, did we already 'know' this?
Can anyone comment on how this game plays?
Diceless - but is it any good - or fun?
Game was a little rough around the edges and had a few balance issues.
However it was always fun and played at a breakneck pace after you got used to the rules.
It made pretty good use of multi level scenery and and benefitted from that and a fairly dense table coverage or at least a good mixture.
I still have all my stuff even though some of it was godawful, however the big stuff and knights was mostly nice.
I will back for a new rule book and maybe a base set since the models are much improved.
Game just needs to change the 'pushing' and 'falling' damage rule, as well as the abundance of blocks and damage negations. Hopefully v2 does that as v1.5 only changed some of it
SPM said that they would use the Legends KS to streamline the (gakky, bloated, slow, unplaytested) FK rules to speed gameplay. They spend months with their thumbs up their butts until backer revolt forces them to do something.
No problem, Deke gaks out a turd of a Beta, with radically new mechanics, totally broken balance, zero playtesting, and gets called on it. Deke gaks out more gakky Betas, randomly changing all sorts of things, and backers are like "WTF?" as they see the rules whipsawing all over the place with no rhyme or reason.
SPM then hires an actual rules designer (Justin) and tasks him with unfething what Deke wrought. It takes him a month to do that, and the result requires new components that are not present in FK. Justin declares victory, as it's no longer pure gak if you play it the way that he intends. I tapped out during this time, as the game was clearly not going to be anything that I had wanted to play.
Justin then turns his eye toward co-op Arcade mode, and revamps that along similar lines. I didn't follow this, but assume it's broadly similar.
tl;dr If you started playing the original version or Forgotten King "Classic", the Legends rewrites of the rules are nothing like either of those. Further, it appears the new play aids won't be provided to existing / previous backers. It's probably slightly faster, but not necessarily smoother.
Glad I didn't back Ninja Bloodbowl or Legends then. Are there any fan rules for regular SDE and FK you would recommend?
So the Kickstarter for Relic Knights: 2nd Edition starts tomorrow. I'm guessing it will not match the first Relic Knights Kickstarter in amount raised ($910K), but do you think it will match the other KSs that Ninja Division has had?:
-Way of the Fighter - $90K
-Rail Raiders - $340K
-Ninja All Stars - $530K
-SDE: Forgotten King $1.15M
-SDE: Legends - $1.29M
I think $400-500k is a fair estimate for Relic Knights 2, given that SDE pulls about $1.2M and RK is clearly the red-headed stepchild by comparision. The problem is that RK is very "fetch", and SPM keeps trying to make RK happen...
I hope they do a mini only pledge. I am not sure I care to pick up the game, but the minis have potential in other systems. Namely the two troopers have potential. Rip the silly gun sword out of the jump pack trooper's hand and put a proper weapon in and you have something that could work for Tau battlesuits. If you are up for conversions, the same goes for the Helgast super soldiers (or as Space Marine support figs).
Lots of info in there, go click. Some highlights:
*Full pics of the Radiant / Void cadres in the box. (All the ones we've seen here +a new solo.)
*New starter box cadres look like they'll have Questing Knights rather than Relic Knights.
*Two KS-only "pinup" models featured here, and two other Darkspace sculpts (the new Bayonetta and the hard-to-find Hero of Time pieces).
*Surprisingly, Moffett and Kenobo still have their old, awkward sculpts. D'aw.
*There's at least 3 new models in the stretch goals and a new Void cadre – the Seraphim – that I haven't seen before.
*Oh, and the box does come with that terrain.
Gah, sorry about all the edits.
Shipping will be done in waves: Bravo, SPM. The timetables look a little too rosy, imo, but void alone knows where they're at in production.
For those of us uninitiated in the actual game (never mind owning entire PAINTED factions) what's the difference between questing and relic knights?
Stats and abilities?
The new starter looks good. I would've preferred they kept at getting the plastics even better rather than just switch to resin, but at least you guys have convinced me that it'll be more robust resin than some of the other companies out there use.
Edit- also saw the starter is being done in unicast resin. Interesting!
Soda Pop has done pretty good about sweetening those Kickstarter pledges as well. Going to need more than a few pinups to convince me to part with my $$$....
Or at least put some more stretches up for more Noh.
When somebody develops a strong connection to Esper they pick up a cyper and become a questing knight (lower points cost, fewer abilities)
and as their connection to the Esper deeps and strengthens some Questing Knights acquire a Relic, often in situations of extreme stress which is usually in the form of a giant shape changing robot (higher points cost, more/stronger abilities)
eg When Princess Mayla was in danger during a race her racing vehicle transformed into a relic which ended up saving her
Questing Knights are on foot and relatively cheap.
Relic Knights ride big mechs and generally cost 2-3x the points.
Stats and abilities are generally completely different. They're pretty akin to the Epic Warcaster model in Warmachine, but for most of them the Relic came first and they added a Questing option later.
I would've preferred getting those Noh Scouts as a freebie rather than the Scribes that'll be unlocked eventually, but that's just my bias for giant monstrous humanoids showing.
February 2018 for delivery is taking the piss. Was ready to back for a few pieces, but I am not sure about backing with a year long release date given how abysmally poor they are at delivering on time.
Maniac_nmt wrote: February 2018 for delivery is taking the piss. Was ready to back for a few pieces, but I am not sure about backing with a year long release date given how abysmally poor they are at delivering on time.
"Lets schedule delivery during Chinese New Year! I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong!"
Maniac_nmt wrote: February 2018 for delivery is taking the piss. Was ready to back for a few pieces, but I am not sure about backing with a year long release date given how abysmally poor they are at delivering on time.
"Lets schedule delivery during Chinese New Year! I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong!"
If ND are delivering Feb, during CNY, then production has to complete prior to the start of CNY. Recall that it takes something like a month for things to transit from China to the US for delivery. So basically, ND is planning to produce right after the Holiday 2017 period ends. Which isn't a bad strategy, as this is probably a lull for toy-related manufacture. Then, get the stuff packed and on the boats prior to CNY start.
Enforcer power armor was an early power armor used by Alliance exploratory fleets. Known for its durability, dependability, and ease of maintenance it performed a vital role in allowing the Alliance to expand throughout its first systems, the galaxy, and beyond. In time, the Enforcer armor was upgraded to a more sophisticated armor, and the Alliance slowly decommissioned its existing Enforcer suits. Nonetheless, the rugged Enforcer armor remained a valuable commodity and is sold to trusted planets, law enforcement groups, and colonists in need.
Does anyone know who is producing the Resin's. I've read a few comments about PRODOS involvement. If this is the case then I'll more than likely pull my pledge.
(Yes, I'm a PRODOS AVP backer who's yet to recieve their stuff after 3 years and now they've the front to take pre-orders for V2 of a Game)
TheSecretSquig wrote: Does anyone know who is producing the Resin's. I've read a few comments about PRODOS involvement. If this is the case then I'll more than likely pull my pledge.
I don't know who's doing the casting here, but I can confirm that Prodos has done casting for their other resins. Some of those models are in this KS; while it's possible that they have multiple production partners, that seems unlikely (especially since the figures in the box set are unicast, which is a Prodos-specific technique as far as I know.)
JohnHwangDD wrote: OK, yes for the shoulder lights, but no ears, no license plate? How is that a Patlabor?
They're both big robots, duh!
I'm pretty impresseed with what they've shown. Will be getting at least a Questing Knight pledge, as they look to be adding a good number of resculpted units as freebies, and their later releases looked like quality stuff from what I've seen.
I'm experiencing an awful lot of faction envy right now - I have most of the 1st edition Black Diamond stuff so the things of most interest to me are the Void and Black Diamond. The models for the former seems underwhelming compared to the Radiant stuff (Sundown Enforcers!) while Darkspace Squall and the resculpted Diamond Corp look pretty bland compared to many of the other offerings (Hardshell, Scribes, Oneshot, Breachers, Sarva Scouts..)
Hopefully the rest of the Black Diamond range will pick up as the KS progresses.
You're probably talking about the Darkspace models. They'll be available during special promotions and at conventions, but won't be available for retail or on SPM's webstore.
They really shouldn't be called a KS exclusive, but it's probably worth noting that they're more limited than the base kits.
That is bad-ass. I have been pleasantly surprised/tempted by the quality of the new sculpts.
I'm assuming all the minis they show the sculpts/paintjobs on for the KS page are either new sculpts/old sculpts staying put for the time being? (From what I read - it seems like all the old sculpts are being retired once stock runs out?)
All old sculpts will be retired and switched to resin. Some immediately, and some when their current stock runs out. There's a doc.google somewhere listing which they are
Maniac_nmt wrote: February 2018 for delivery is taking the piss. Was ready to back for a few pieces, but I am not sure about backing with a year long release date given how abysmally poor they are at delivering on time.
The plan is to ship it in Waves. Most of it ships in Wave 1 this summer(several of the sculpts are at retail right now) probably in August. This includes the 2 player starter box set, new cards, most of the single figures, a few of the minion squads etc.
Some of it ship late in 2017 (2nd Edition Rulebook(double softcover in a slip case like the Infinity N3 rules), Diamond Corps resculpt, Hardshell, Noh Render resculpt, Kyojin Berserker resculpt, Savra scouts, Ophanim)
A few come in early 2018. (Voidbreak rulebook, Vaultus)
There's some cool stuff being revealed. I'm a little disappointed that no big items, like Relic Knights are actually being included as freebies. It feels like most of the unlocks so far have been paid add-ons. I also find it odd that they don't have faction bundles as add-ons.
I'm not surprised that the RKs and such are paid items - that's the only way to drive extra revenue. And it's not like this is going to be a big seller. RK is a labor of love to themselves, that they share with a niche fanbase.
Maniac_nmt wrote: February 2018 for delivery is taking the piss. Was ready to back for a few pieces, but I am not sure about backing with a year long release date given how abysmally poor they are at delivering on time.
The plan is to ship it in Waves. Most of it ships in Wave 1 this summer(several of the sculpts are at retail right now) probably in August. This includes the 2 player starter box set, new cards, most of the single figures, a few of the minion squads etc.
Some of it ship late in 2017 (2nd Edition Rulebook(double softcover in a slip case like the Infinity N3 rules), Diamond Corps resculpt, Hardshell, Noh Render resculpt, Kyojin Berserker resculpt, Savra scouts, Ophanim)
A few come in early 2018. (Voidbreak rulebook, Vaultus)
Have they explicitly stated that break out? When I read through it was not clear what was shipping when. Given past experience with SPM, on two different projects and observing a third, they are always late, even with long and apparently padded timelines.
Maniac_nmt wrote: February 2018 for delivery is taking the piss. Was ready to back for a few pieces, but I am not sure about backing with a year long release date given how abysmally poor they are at delivering on time.
The plan is to ship it in Waves. Most of it ships in Wave 1 this summer(several of the sculpts are at retail right now) probably in August. This includes the 2 player starter box set, new cards, most of the single figures, a few of the minion squads etc.
Some of it ship late in 2017 (2nd Edition Rulebook(double softcover in a slip case like the Infinity N3 rules), Diamond Corps resculpt, Hardshell, Noh Render resculpt, Kyojin Berserker resculpt, Savra scouts, Ophanim)
A few come in early 2018. (Voidbreak rulebook, Vaultus)
Have they explicitly stated that break out? When I read through it was not clear what was shipping when. Given past experience with SPM, on two different projects and observing a third, they are always late, even with long and apparently padded timelines.
It's from a combination of their pledge calculator spreadsheet(which says what piece is is in what wave) and their front kickstarter page near the bottom(which explains the three waves and links them to specific "parts" of whichever year.)
Regarding Prodos this post from one of the updates says they're doing all the resins for this, and it's all unicast, although some of the larger things may still be multipart
Soda Pop Miniatures 7-time creator
Superbacker
about 4 hours ago
All new models use the unicast method of sculpting and production to minimize the number parts required for assembly. In many cases this will result in a single piece model. Other more complex models (think knights and large models) may require 2 or more parts. In the 2-Player Starter Tahariel is the only model which requires any assembly. (She is two parts, you need to glue the ring to her back.)
As we move into tooling for other models, we will be happy to share the number of parts required for assembly.
-- nekodachi
I've seen Unicast minis that had nothing to do with Prodos (actually from a local 'caster here in Utah). Prodos don't have any exclusivity on unicast minis.
odinsgrandson wrote: I've seen Unicast minis that had nothing to do with Prodos (actually from a local 'caster here in Utah). Prodos don't have any exclusivity on unicast minis.
They are being manufactured by Prodos. They have been doing all the resin miniatures for them for quite some time.
Unicast is different than single piece miniatures. You can tell the difference because of the poses, the undercuts and designs of them. Although it technically is a proprietary process which is why they couldn't patent it. I have yet to see someone create the same quality and designs that has been put out by Unicast.
Not really any KS questions answered; this is more about why they streamlined the system and tweaked rules to favor offense.
EDIT: Whoa, bit of a bombshell around 40 minutes – they're planning on including cards for ALL models, including the Kingdom Death crossovers, the Penny Arcade models and the special edition metals. (Gah, I hope they re-release Ayu Beat.)
New relic knight up. Not a fan of the way she's holding her sword and how she seems to have no legs
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looking at the RK KS and the Miniature market RK section, the 'special prices' listed under the RK KS is very close to the MM prices for some of the items.
Eg. Shattered sword questing knight is 12.79 on the MM site but 12 on the RK KS. What's more interesting is the MSRP cause RK is listing his MSRP as 20 dollars while on MM it's RRP is 15.95. The RRP for MM is correct though considering I've cross-referenced it with PP RRP and MM RRP so either ND is planning to jack up prices or they're messing with RRP
@sining, I live two miles from Miniaturemarket, I can tell you they don't do a huge markup on what they pay for on a lot of lines. They deal in volume. So them giving almost a 25% discount is almost normal for most things, which is about the 'normal' Kickstarter discount price you see. You just won't find the exclusives there.
I'm talking about RRP not Sales price. If you look at RRP, it's 15.95, and the sales price is discounted from there. However, on Sodapops KS page, RRP is 20 dollars for the same model and sale price is 12usd.
The question is WHY is the RRP so different on the KS page.
I've cross-checked the RRP for Privateer press stuff with PPs website and MMs website and they're identical. It's just Sodapops that's weird.
Not really any KS questions answered; this is more about why they streamlined the system and tweaked rules to favor offense.
EDIT: Whoa, bit of a bombshell around 40 minutes – they're planning on including cards for ALL models, including the Kingdom Death crossovers, the Penny Arcade models and the special edition metals. (Gah, I hope they re-release Ayu Beat.)
Yeah- it sounds to me like they were trying to go as broad as possible in their definition of "Legacy Minis."
From the way he was talking, I thought it was possible that they might include the Candy with the huge soda cannon. But Kingdom Death Candy and Penny Arcade characters are definitely in.
That makes me very happy. Gabe and Tycho get to keep playing.
spiralingcadaver wrote: ...Why do some of the stretch goals say KS exclusive (and are free) but have MSRPs listed?
To tell you what a fantastic baaahgain you're getting.
So how many projects will Prodos be casting for? RK2, AvP2, and Vanguard, at least.
Something I learned from Alien Assimilation KS (four years and running) is to avoid companies running multiple projects. That's obviously a generality, but I'm not seeing a track record for Prodos that, say, CMON and Reaper has (not that some backers are satisfied with theirs, either).
ced1106 wrote: So how many projects will Prodos be casting for? RK2, AvP2, and Vanguard, at least.
I believe that is pretty much it. There are still some small ones offs and smaller stuff, but I believe most of those were pushed out and delayed in some aspects. Oh they still have DemiGods which is supposed to be in casting currently but technically that isn't their project, that was an offer to save that KS... which could have been a great PR move, if they finished delivery of outstanding AvP.
Vanguard is finishing sculpting so probably in production with AvP2. There will be a few months before RK2 gets a pledge manager, finishes sculpting on everything and then is ready for production. So by that time, given how long it took for LOAD manufacturing, they should have completed the others. But that technically doesn't mean anything because I have no real idea of the size of the facilities or what the capacity is. From what we've seen though the UniCast production system is relatively faster than traditional methods which still meshes with my theory on how they are achieving what they are doing (previously discussed in the UniCast thread).
IIRC, a number of RK1 backers were (very deservedly upset) with SPM over exclusives tied to the original RK project, specifically the (retroactively non-) "exclusive" RK crossover SDE minis.
Well, at this point looking at the funding trend, Soda Pop Miniatures will be lucky to reach $500K. I'm thinking the $300K-400K range is becoming more likely. It seems like this Kickstarter is missing some of the "wow" factor that helps drive other miniature Kickstarters.
I've been disappointed that the majority of recent stretch goals are just things unlocked for purchase. Who the hell wants that? Stretch goals should be free stuff! Isn't that the point?
Do you think Soda Pop Miniatures will throw in some more unique miniatures? Perhaps a Relic Knight or two?
I really can't imagine SPMwon't add more free units.
They've got Scribes (Doctrine), Purifiers (SSP) and Pit Crew (Cerci) as free units: That's all Radiant-aligned, which puts Void on a real backfoot in terms of getting models into early adopters' hands. (Squall might be a minion, too, to be fair, and she's free. We already know Moffett and Kenobo are minions.) Note, too, that they've tossed in 2 add-on models (rather than upgrade kits), and they're both for free units: Scribe Shield Construct and the Purifier Divine Healer.
I think it's fair to guess that SPM plans to add a starter minion unit to each of the 6 core factions. I can see the wisdom to this (it encourages players to pick up a paid non-Void, non-Radiant knight so they can come away with two cadres), but I can also see a downside ("My pledge came in, but now I have a mess of free miniatures I can't use and no one else really wants ..."). Personally, I would have allowed $130+ backers to choose a free cadre rather than unlocking a bunch of unrelated units that can't be used w/ the Questing Knights in the core set, but I suspect this KS is targeting existing players more than it's targeting new ones.
I think it's also interesting to note that the core units from the cadres seem to be getting nice, new resins as a paid upgrade. (Corsairs and Diamond Corps so far. Of the other 4, the only we've seen is Kyojin Berzerkers, which are not going to resin. Fortunately, the Noh actually look decent in the restic.)
On the issue of final funding:
If we assume that a) I'm right about the plan to give the 6 core factions a free minion unit +upgrade, that puts us 5/12 (possibly 6/12) of such goals introduced; b) the final KS is intended to feature those free minions; and c) SPM isn't playing around with the notably hidden stretch goals, then we can get an expected projection of around 350k to 420k. That seems to jive with the graphs above. (That's a lot of "ifs," I know.)
(There's also a decent argument to be made that such free minions should have unlocked early, and that could point at a significantly slower KS than expected.)
They have had a lot of paid stretch goals - but the freebie pile seems pretty nice to me, and they've kept the stretch goals at every $5,000 - so they are still going through them at a pretty good clip.
One thing holding me back is wanting to make sure I avoid all the old, kinda crappy sculpts. Am not sure how to pick up a faction while doing that.
Sorry - wasn't clear on that - am aware everything in the KS is new - but I mean like, if I want to pledge for the KS and pick up say the Doctrine faction (or any faction really) - I don't think I can do that as of yet without avoiding all the old crap?
I'm not massively bothered by loads of freebies. Yes it would be nice to get a load and whatnot but I'm just here to get this project out and successful.
Why every single female model must have Marie-Claude sized breasts? ok, technically some have a bit smaller, but still almost the same, some variety would not hurt.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Why every single female model must have Marie-Claude sized breasts? ok, technically some have a bit smaller, but still almost the same, some variety would not hurt.
I guess according to Soda Pop, everyone who likes anime must also wants all their anime ladies to have basketball-sized funbags? Perhaps to prevent the game being played in public
How does it work with pledges after the Kickstarter ends (using a pledge manager)? Does the company running the Kickstarter do the charge, or is it still Kickstarter?
It seems like Kickstarter is very clear that its services aren't subject to chargeback for non-delivery.
Basically, it is better for the charge to be on the pledgemanager (the company) instead of Kickstarter itself, if you are worried about needing to do a chargeback down the road?
Soda pop use their own online store as the pledge manager they create a part that's separate to the main store that backers can access they create an account for you or if you used the same email address for both KS and an existing SPM account they use that. The PM works exactly like their store you add items to your cart and checkout to finish they give you credit equal to your pledge and it comes off the total at check out if you go over your credit you pay the difference in the normal way.
As it's store credit I doubt you could charge back against it (only any part that is in excess of your pledge) any chargeback would probably be against the KS pledge.
if the company uses a PM to collect shipping or add more stuff you'll get charged for that when the PM closes (eg backerkit) or immediately you submit it
If you're worried about doing a chargeback down the road i'd advise staying away from KS full stop as you usually will be out of time by the time you realise something is wrong
(although stuff paid for via PM would probably be counted as a purchase rather than a crowdfunding payment)
DaveC wrote: Soda pop use their own online store as the pledge manager they create a part that's separate to the main store that backers can access and they give you credit equal to your pledge to spend and it comes off the total at check out if you go over your credit you pay the difference in the normal way.
Thanks! So it sounds like the safest way is to pledge the $25 level to get the pin-ups (through Kickstarter), then use the pledgemanager after campaign end for everything else above and beyond that.
If you're worried about doing a chargeback down the road i'd advise staying away from KS full stop as you usually will be out of time by the time you realise something is wrong (although stuff paid for via PM would probably be counted as a purchase rather than a crowdfunding payment)
My credit card is awesome about chargebacks, (because they are rare). Most credit card companies are very accommodating as long as you don't abuse the privilege, especially when there is non-delivery of items purchased at retail (like a pledgemanager). That is the case even a long time after promised delivery, because it shows that you waited more than just a short period of time to try and resolve the issue. The key is documentation - the original delivery date and documentation of follow-up with the company after that date has passed.
The women in the two re-sculpted unit (diamond corps and corsairs) are both sensibly sized and wearing reasonable armor (especially compared against the men in the units).
I'd prefer RK had more variety in their body shapes too.
I'd prefer RK had more variety in their body shapes too.
Funny enough, the Noh have got you covered there. Whilr their women may be scantily clad and well endowed, their men actually seem to have a good range of body types.
DaveC wrote: Soda pop use their own online store as the pledge manager they create a part that's separate to the main store that backers can access they create an account for you or if you used the same email address for both KS and an existing SPM account they use that. The PM works exactly like their store you add items to your cart and checkout to finish they give you credit equal to your pledge and it comes off the total at check out if you go over your credit you pay the difference in the normal way.
As it's store credit I doubt you could charge back against it (only any part that is in excess of your pledge) any chargeback would probably be against the KS pledge.
So if I just pledge $2 to gain access to the special online store ($1 pledge, plus $1 store credit), can I then use my credit card for the remainder of my order in that special store?
Basically, after some thoughtful planning, I think I only want the new rulebook and the upgraded cards, and maybe some Wave 1 items that I know will ship immediately (Dahon, etc.).
Indeed. Whilst you're getting a grab bag of minis from across the factions, the list-building rules mean you only need a knight and you're good to go with what you get in the QK and RK pledges. Once Magnus is unlocked you'll have Void, Radiant, Cerci, and Black Diamond knights included, so you'll only need to add one if you want to play any of the other four factions.
So is this like a complete rules overhaul? BecauseThe rules were probably the main complaint that my group had when we tried to play it. Kickstarter looks pretty good and their models look better.
Complete rules overhaul that they're actively testing and taking feedback on. Take that for what you will as I'm not sure what the state of the game is currently, but I've always wanted to give it a try.
You're also looking at getting close to 30 free figures via stretch goals (if not more than that if the total keeps climbing) with the 130 pledge, plus the figures in the actual 2 player starter, which brings the average cost of the figures down to somewhere between 3 to 4 dollars each for resin/ unicast figures.
Yup - I wound up pledging myself last night (despite not having painted anything for more than a year now) is quite a bit of freebies tacked onto the base pledge and a nice variety of minis. Will hold off on any add-ons until the pledge manager though (and seeing more WIP stuff of a lot of the later things).
I'll have to get those Sailor Scouts eventually but I don't think I'll pledge. I like the game, but I've played it maybe 5 times total, throwing another 150 euro at it just doesn't seem like a good use of resources no matter how many minis I get.
Really wish they had broken out the big guns earlier on this. Those Novitates and Avatar of the Void would have helped move things along faster. 3 hours to go, and not sure we can get to the latter. Maybe they'll just open it anyways? It would be a shame if we somehow didnt unlock the model they were using to advertise Void Break.
I think this is a pretty good deal overall. For $130 you get rules and 45 resin models. It's not CMON numbers, but I don't really have enough time to paint all I get from CMON anyways!
Are we able to change pledge levels and add funds for add ons post campaign? I'm Interested in relic knight pledge level but don't have enough money till I get paid next week.. :/
anab0lic wrote: Are we able to change pledge levels and add funds for add ons post campaign? I'm Interested in relic knight pledge level but don't have enough money till I get paid next week.. :/
Every 'hobby KS I have backed has let me change from a £1 (or equivalent) lvl to a higher one.
although the two KS exclusive minis may not be available when you if you jump in at $1 now... the text on the KS implies it but it's not been soda pops position in the past and could be just to encourage pledging now
but whatever goes on there you should be fine upgrading for the rest post KS
With an hour to go and only a couple hundred left to close the spread, it looks like the mecha musume is going to be included in the pledges as well.
Not a bad deal for 130, considering how many figures, books, updated cards for all models, heck, even cardboard terrain to play on are going to be included.
They've confirmed multiple times in the comments that you must pledge at least the $25 level to get the 2 Pin ups other than that you can pledge what you like and change level or add in the PM. If you pledge $1 and upgrade all you will miss out on is the 2 Pin Up versions of the miniatures but regular Fiametta comes with the pledge anyway and Marie Claude can be added for $12.
Alright thanks guys, I'm in at $25 for now... glad this is a no customs fees BS kickstarter as I can see myself spending quite a bit here. Hope we can hit 400k!
I think they already said it will be available, since they posted "BAM! Adam wins the prize" in response for his request to just let us buy it anyways.
Dragonback Peaks: Tile Pack is a world expansion for games of Super Dungeon Explore. The tile pack includes beautifully illustrated double-sided dungeon tiles for the fiery underground halls of the Dragonback Peaks and tile effect cards, ensuring that no game is ever the same. This tile pack also includes Fire Flower creeps, the native flora of Dragonback Peaks, known for spitting fire and charring many an unprepared adventurer, and their respective Arcade and Classic Mode cards.
Now Available at the Soda Pop Store!
DrunkQuest: Tin Packaging DrunkQuest™ is a drinking game for 2 to 6 players that is an actual drinking game! DrunkQuest™ is a fantasy-based card game with fast-paced gameplay and a sense of encouraged competition - and drinking. This fast, fun, drinking game mixes quick card game mechanics with classic fantasy adventure themes to create a party game like no other!
In DrunkQuest™ players must defeat monsters in Drunk Combat! Each monster has a drink value that must be taken in order to defeat it. But it's not easy when other players are trying to stop you from defeating your monster using their cards to add drinks to the difficulty or even stealing it for themselves. Each monster defeated grants a level. The first player to reach level 6 wins!
Figure here is the best place to ask, Way of the Fighter is up on the store as part of their pledge manager, I had no interest in it at the time but now I'm backing Relic Knights some resin Anime themed civilians are appealing, can I just buy em and get them send as part of the Kickstarter order as its on the store site?
That is how previous Ninja Pop KS went.
They give the backer store credit, and create bundles equivalent to the KS pledges... and announce its open in the updates
Testudo Tower is a new dungeon boss for games of Super Dungeon Explore. This expansion box includes the new dungeon boss, Testudo Tower, and six hardshell Demolition Expert creeps. The expansion box also includes Classic and Arcade Mode Cards for monsters, as well as themed Explore Cards and Treasure Cards, making it a fun addition for fans of Super Dungeon Explore.
The ground trembles and shakes with each step of the mightiest of all rocktops, the Testudo Tower! The biggest and coolest of all rocktop crushers, Testudo Tower rules the rough and rocky caverns beneath the Dragonback Peaks. Easily seduced by the allure of flashy trinkets, and determined to keep up with the latest fashion trends, the Testudo Tower happily sells his services to the highest bidder.
Super Dungeon introduced the world to the whimsy and charm of chibi-miniature board games, inspired by classic video games, and continues to be the leader in providing a fun and lighthearted family board game experience. Strongly supported with dozens of expansions that provide new Heroes, monsters, dungeon tiles, and gameplay options, Testudo Tower is sure to join the Super Dungeon family of products as a staple of family game nights worldwide!
JohnHwangDD wrote: I don't think the SDE 2.0 / Legends minis are the problem. That's relatively easy, as the render work has already been done.
It's more how late they are coupled with it looking like nothing physical has been done. Renders may be done, but there is building the molds, casting samples, vetting samples, modifications to the mold, and then production. It doesn't need to be now, but it seems that nothing is running in parallel and their latest update was a shamless plug for more cash ($90 for 12 minis), of which 2/3rds don't have a prototype or render, for a game they cannot even get out the door. Right now, like NAS, it seems they will try to push it all through at once, and again have delays due to that.
I think it isn't so much the delay (although that is getting a bit daft given we are over a year behind schedule), it's the multiple follow on kickstarters and then the current poor update involving high dollar sets of figures. I previously backed NAS, and it was delayed by 6+ months, and had mediocre to poor customer support when it did launch (the game is fine, I play a simplified version with my daughter and she likes it, but it also was not well planned out). Given a 16 month delay on this one....
Pretty, but highly unreliable. for those who already have/play SDE, this is fine. For those, like me, looking to get into the game it's 'eh'. It's why I did not chip into the Relic Knights set, even if I would have enjoyed painting some of the models. For Sodapop, going forward, I will wait until it hits the shelves.
I backed Legends, and that will likely be my last SPM/ND-related purchase. I passed on NAS and RK2 because I thought the underlying game lacking. Based on the rules support, I just can't see myself giving these guys any more money.
I'd guess that if they gave the go ahead for the legends minis now they'd be on the hook for finding and paying for long term storage while the rules were finalised then printed as none of the places that do assembly will want (or have space) for the stuff to hand around for long.
So they'll be waiting to coordinate the printing and mini production
We got some really great feedback last week - and wanted to find a different way to visually share with you our progress week to week. I hope this helps, as always, we are keen to stay as transparent as able. Your love, time, and investment make this all possible! We are working on a visual progress bar for all our working elements that will greatly help you know at a glance what is going on!
Here is the texty version - pretty graphics to come next week:
Super Dungeon Development - 33% (Wave 1 is ready for layout, Wave 2 assets will be ready when Wave 1 of Relic Knights is completed)
Artwork, Sculpting, Layout - 33% (All character, treasure, item, and board art is complete, most of the sculpts are done, waiting to see production samples for the bosses of legends)
Pre-press and Manufacturing - 33% (Most of Wave 1 sculpts are approved, next step after layout is to check Wave 1 eproofs)
Fulfillment - 0% Wave 1 -
SDE 2.0 - 80% (This Wave includes SDE 2.0 Classic, Frostbyte Ravagers, Crownguard, and the two heroes/mini bosses. This stuff just needs to be laid out after Way of the Fighter)
Wave 2 - (x) - 40%
Wave 3 - Legends - 0% (Ninja Deke is hard at work)
It's exceedingly underwhelming.
They don't have anything ready. Legends (and presumably all of the promised campaigns)? 0%
But they're working on Pet Parade!
OMFG. Fail so hard.
Not another fething penny after these fethers deliver Legends.
Rail Raiders Infinite is a chibi sci-fi western board game for 2 to 4 players engaged in a shakedown of the Interstellar Express space-rail. Featuring beautifully illustrated, double-sided traincar tiles and stunningly whimsical chibi Soda Pop Miniatures, Rail Raiders Infinite draws the eyes as players draw their guns in this space-age western stick up. Mixing quick card mechanics and dueling dice battles, players bum-rush the rail to take away the biggest haul of double-dollars in the wildest heist this side of the galaxy!
Rail Raiders Infinite is a rousing railway rummage like no other! Strongly supported with dozens of expansions that extend the game with new raiders, bots, traincar tiles, game cards, and gameplay options, Rail Raiders Infinite is sure to be a staple of game nights worldwide!
Legendary figures created by Edgar Rice Burroughs and Robert E. Howard are brought to life as highly detailed 32 mm resin miniatures, for your Pathfinder Worldscape RPG adventures! Preorder yours today! #gencon #booth2827 (http://sodapopminiatures.com/preorders-21)
*models supplied unassembled. Item will start shipping on 08/21/2017
not terribly keen on anything but the Thark, and that seems too short (I seem to remember the were twice as tall as John Carter?)
PS. That Red Sonja is a Roy Thomas creation. Howard's has nothing to do with chain mail bikinis, and is instead a character in an Ottoman siege on Vienna in the 16th century.
Bronze Age says they are scaled for 32mm battles, and thus 54mm high. That fits with Burroughs' description of them. I just bought a Carter and a Deja's Thoris stand-in. Both are very well done. Sometime down the road I will get a Thark to paint as Tars Tarkas.
INCOMING!
Soda Pop Miniatures and Ninja Division proudly announce the launch of GUTS, collectible tanks and soldiers to enhance your tabletop gaming. GUTS is designed for fans of World War II, and miniature gaming. Making history fun, collectors young and old, will enjoy painting and playing with the expanding line of GUTS miniatures. Cast in high quality metal and resin, these miniatures will be a joy to collect and paint.
Preorder Today!! http://sodapopminiatures.com/guts
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and
Take to the stars in a future full of magic, mystery, and technology in Starfinder, the new Roleplaying Game from Paizo, the creators of Pathfinder. Start your Starfinder adventures off with these iconic heroes, cast in high quality resin, available for the first time at Gencon. Come recruit your crew at the Ninja Division Booth, #2827, we will see you there.
Available for Preorder now:
http://sodapopminiatures.com/starfinder-miniatures
They look about right, I am sure there is a market for them out there, Advance wars popularity shows the aesthetic is popular, but they would need an interesting game, probably boardgame, for them to sell, I do not think the market is big enouph for them to stand alone, except ,maybe? if they are targeted for Asian market?
Seneca wrote: Maybe I'm the only one, WW2 chibis seem to me to be in quite bad taste. But again, maybe it is just me.
It's not just you. It's one thing to have 'cute' soldiers and tanks (lord knows I love me some Advance Wars), but to represent the actual war so 'on-the-nose' like this is quite another. By all means have designs inspired by real-world military (case in point, AW does exactly that), but make up your own nations/factions/etc and background, and put some distance between the silly fun miniatures game and a real-life war that remains in living memory for some, else it can come across highly disrespectful.
It's not just you. It's one thing to have 'cute' soldiers and tanks (lord knows I love me some Advance Wars), but to represent the actual war so 'on-the-nose' like this is quite another. By all means have designs inspired by real-world military (case in point, AW does exactly that), but make up your own nations/factions/etc and background, and put some distance between the silly fun miniatures game and a real-life war that remains in living memory for some, else it can come across highly disrespectful.
I don't remember anybody complaining about Heroes of Normandie, Rivet Wars, Hogan's Heroes, little green army men, or any of the thousands of disrespectful toys, games, movies, and tv shows that have happened in the past 70 years. Is it disrespectful to set a comedy in a concentration camp? Is it disrespectful to have games where the allies fight supernatural Nazis, like Achtung Cthulhu!, Zombie Army Trilogy, Hellboy, Shadows Over Normandie, Wolfenstein, or you know, Indiana Jones? I think BattleLore has fairly cute figures (dwarves riding on cows), but there's an Agincourt scenario in it. Is that in bad taste too? Is there a time limit on disrespect?
At some point, we, as a culture, have to move on from the past so that we can learn from it and play with its concepts in order to produce new works of art and commerce. These Guts figures aren't worthy of even the mildest outrage. It's open season on WW2 and has been for quite a while.
Other than the antennae on the mantis space lady figure, those are some nice scifi minis. From a quick google search, the starfinder label is apparently the scifi game from Paizo, makers of Pathfinder.
It's not just you. It's one thing to have 'cute' soldiers and tanks (lord knows I love me some Advance Wars), but to represent the actual war so 'on-the-nose' like this is quite another. By all means have designs inspired by real-world military (case in point, AW does exactly that), but make up your own nations/factions/etc and background, and put some distance between the silly fun miniatures game and a real-life war that remains in living memory for some, else it can come across highly disrespectful.
I don't remember anybody complaining about Heroes of Normandie, Rivet Wars, Hogan's Heroes, little green army men, or any of the thousands of disrespectful toys, games, movies, and tv shows that have happened in the past 70 years. Is it disrespectful to set a comedy in a concentration camp? Is it disrespectful to have games where the allies fight supernatural Nazis, like Achtung Cthulhu!, Zombie Army Trilogy, Hellboy, Shadows Over Normandie, Wolfenstein, or you know, Indiana Jones? I think BattleLore has fairly cute figures (dwarves riding on cows), but there's an Agincourt scenario in it. Is that in bad taste too? Is there a time limit on disrespect?
At some point, we, as a culture, have to move on from the past so that we can learn from it and play with its concepts in order to produce new works of art and commerce. These Guts figures aren't worthy of even the mildest outrage. It's open season on WW2 and has been for quite a while.
The difference for me is, that in most of games/movies etc you mentioned, the Nazis are presented either as straight out villains, or are parodied or otherwise made fun of. In many cases there are also some tropes that come into play like the connection of Nazis and the supernatural. And while Hogans Heroes made fun of them (btw it played in a POW camp not a concentration Camp) I doubt that gutz will have the wits that this show had. In general it looks like they wanted to copy rivet wars but they didn't thought it through. Aside of that I just Think that chibi style simply doesn't fit that theme.
And I don't wanted to make a general Statement, I just wanted to express what I think and feel when Ich see this.
The difference for me is, that in most of games/movies etc you mentioned, the Nazis are presented either as straight out villains, or are parodied or otherwise made fun of. In many cases there are also some tropes that come into play like the connection of Nazis and the supernatural. And while Hogans Heroes made fun of them (btw it played in a POW camp not a concentration Camp) I doubt that gutz will have the wits that this show had. In general it looks like they wanted to copy rivet wars but they didn't thought it through. Aside of that I just Think that chibi style simply doesn't fit that theme.
First of all, with regard to the concentration camp, I was referring to Life Is Beautiful.
Second, there were millions of German soldiers, many of which died basically as kids. There were fathers, sons, brothers, teachers, husbands, butchers, mechanics, writers, and professions of every sort. Not every Nazi soldier was a sadistic psychopath that experimented on prisoners in concentration camps. Some of them were border guards, messengers, cooks, and secretaries - and many of them were victims to politics out of their control.
The Allied soldiers were not angels either and committed their fair share of wartime atrocities, like killing civilians, children, and unarmed soldiers. War is never clean and it is never just the good guys versus the bad guys. There were villains on both sides and heroes on both sides - at least at the soldier level - but history is written by the victors, and so they get the better PR.
But at some point, we're going to make little plastic miniatures out of soldiers - out of real people who killed and died - and at the point that we are already denying that for our entertainment, why does making them chibi suddenly matter?
It's not just you. It's one thing to have 'cute' soldiers and tanks (lord knows I love me some Advance Wars), but to represent the actual war so 'on-the-nose' like this is quite another. By all means have designs inspired by real-world military (case in point, AW does exactly that), but make up your own nations/factions/etc and background, and put some distance between the silly fun miniatures game and a real-life war that remains in living memory for some, else it can come across highly disrespectful.
I don't remember anybody complaining about Heroes of Normandie, Rivet Wars, Hogan's Heroes, little green army men, or any of the thousands of disrespectful toys, games, movies, and tv shows that have happened in the past 70 years. Is it disrespectful to set a comedy in a concentration camp? Is it disrespectful to have games where the allies fight supernatural Nazis, like Achtung Cthulhu!, Zombie Army Trilogy, Hellboy, Shadows Over Normandie, Wolfenstein, or you know, Indiana Jones? I think BattleLore has fairly cute figures (dwarves riding on cows), but there's an Agincourt scenario in it. Is that in bad taste too? Is there a time limit on disrespect?
At some point, we, as a culture, have to move on from the past so that we can learn from it and play with its concepts in order to produce new works of art and commerce. These Guts figures aren't worthy of even the mildest outrage. It's open season on WW2 and has been for quite a while.
The difference for me is, that in most of games/movies etc you mentioned, the Nazis are presented either as straight out villains, or are parodied or otherwise made fun of. In many cases there are also some tropes that come into play like the connection of Nazis and the supernatural. And while Hogans Heroes made fun of them (btw it played in a POW camp not a concentration Camp) I doubt that gutz will have the wits that this show had. In general it looks like they wanted to copy rivet wars but they didn't thought it through. Aside of that I just Think that chibi style simply doesn't fit that theme.
And I don't wanted to make a general Statement, I just wanted to express what I think and feel when Ich see this.
Wait, how is it better if the German soldiers (many of whom weren't nazis) are presented as cartoon villains and parodies?
SUPER DUNGEON: TWILIGHT KNIGHT from KINGDOM DEATH – A refresh on one of our most popular crossover miniatures for Super Dungeon, the Twilight Knight returns to Super Dungeon with an all new sculpt of this immensely popular hero. The Twilight Knight will be available at Gencon, and the Ninja Division webstore.
I'd like to see them return to Ninja All-Stars at some point, and despite their insistence that they haven't given up on the series just yet, everything is out of stock or on clearance everywhere with no sign of returning. The game needed some work, but the potential was (is?) high.
It's not just you. It's one thing to have 'cute' soldiers and tanks (lord knows I love me some Advance Wars), but to represent the actual war so 'on-the-nose' like this is quite another. By all means have designs inspired by real-world military (case in point, AW does exactly that), but make up your own nations/factions/etc and background, and put some distance between the silly fun miniatures game and a real-life war that remains in living memory for some, else it can come across highly disrespectful.
I don't remember anybody complaining about Heroes of Normandie, Rivet Wars, Hogan's Heroes, little green army men, or any of the thousands of disrespectful toys, games, movies, and tv shows that have happened in the past 70 years. Is it disrespectful to set a comedy in a concentration camp? Is it disrespectful to have games where the allies fight supernatural Nazis, like Achtung Cthulhu!, Zombie Army Trilogy, Hellboy, Shadows Over Normandie, Wolfenstein, or you know, Indiana Jones? I think BattleLore has fairly cute figures (dwarves riding on cows), but there's an Agincourt scenario in it. Is that in bad taste too? Is there a time limit on disrespect?
At some point, we, as a culture, have to move on from the past so that we can learn from it and play with its concepts in order to produce new works of art and commerce. These Guts figures aren't worthy of even the mildest outrage. It's open season on WW2 and has been for quite a while.
The difference for me is, that in most of games/movies etc you mentioned, the Nazis are presented either as straight out villains, or are parodied or otherwise made fun of. In many cases there are also some tropes that come into play like the connection of Nazis and the supernatural. And while Hogans Heroes made fun of them (btw it played in a POW camp not a concentration Camp) I doubt that gutz will have the wits that this show had. In general it looks like they wanted to copy rivet wars but they didn't thought it through. Aside of that I just Think that chibi style simply doesn't fit that theme.
And I don't wanted to make a general Statement, I just wanted to express what I think and feel when Ich see this.
Wait, how is it better if the German soldiers (many of whom weren't nazis) are presented as cartoon villains and parodies?
It isn't better, and I'm also critical of many other portrayals as well. Mostly because I believe that presenting Nazis as monsters also ridicules what happened. Considering that this atrocities were committed by humans not monsters. And presenting soldiers from both sides in such a cutesy way is disrepectful for me. Disrepectful to the victims and heroes.
A revisit to NAS would be nice, but does not seem in the cards as it isn't a bright shiny.
On the sci-fi minis:
The antennae should have been left off or come as wires that you could pin in. As is both models look clunky with the pillars sticking out.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I don't think chibification makes anything more awkward or uncomfortable than actual minis (or scale model kits) do
As a semi-serious rivet counter, making the tanks chibi bothers me in ways that actual scale minis don't. The way they handled the drive wheels, the idlers, etc. on those tanks really grinds my gears. They deliberately did some of the translation / modeling in a lazy and cheap way, and it shows very clearly.
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Sqorgar wrote: I'd like to see them return to Ninja All-Stars at some point, and despite their insistence that they haven't given up on the series just yet, everything is out of stock or on clearance everywhere with no sign of returning. The game needed some work, but the potential was (is?) high.
Like SDE, NAS has some very nice minis tied to iffy rules. For a while, I was thinking about buying a couple Clans for house rules, but have since walked away from that. Rules development takes too long, and I have other rules projects with higher priority. Like fixing SDE.
PsychoticStorm wrote: They look about right, I am sure there is a market for them out there, Advance wars popularity shows the aesthetic is popular, but they would need an interesting game, probably boardgame, for them to sell, I do not think the market is big enouph for them to stand alone, except ,maybe? if they are targeted for Asian market?
I would argue that Advance Wars is popular first of all because it is an excellent solo player wargame.
Years ago I started to make a Hall Wargame of Advance Wars, which I called Advance Wars Solid. It never got finished, of course, partly because of the lack of suitable SD style models.
Between these figures, the SD style Girls Und Panzer kits, and some of the cool Japanese capsule toy style models, it may be time to reactivate the project.
Well that is a bummer... I was looking forward to a unpainted one that I could paint. I mean yes I can strip the paint and paint it, but that isn't the same. Apparently, it will be prepainted.
This will be a full- pre-painted figure. Stands around 11" tall.
This stuff is going to be available on their website, right?
I just let go my Twilight Knight recently, and she was probably my favorite SDE figure. Now granted, the details were somewhat naff on mine, and she was on a basic SDE base, while this one has the typical Kingdom Death faces.
Ninja Division has signed a license with Games Workshop to create a card game under the Warhammer Fantasy property for the tabletop games market.
DOOMSEEKER™
Doomseeker is a tabletop card game, created by David Freeman and John Cadice, where players take on the role of a mighty dwarf slayer. Each player’s character is sworn by the slayer’s oath to seek a glorious death in battle for a crime committed or stain on that dwarf’s honor. The slayers eschew worldly pursuits, dye their beards and hair in fierce and fiery reds and oranges, tattoo their ruddy flesh, take up their weapons, and wander the old world seeking their doom battling monsters and enemies of their race.
The Doomseeker card game pits players against one another to see who can die the most glorious death! Push your luck, challenge the denizens and monsters of the Old World, with each victory bringing you more glory, and ultimately your death can be met at the hands of a truly worthy foe! Slotted for release in Spring 2018, Doomseeker will be a boxed card game with cards, dice, and tokens needed to play.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I heard they'd licenced something in the gencon chatter but this actually says what it is.... seek a glorious death and pray you don't get killed by the ubiquitous giant rat, or snotling
Yup. SPM chose not to deliver RRI in the retail box that they showed in the Campaign. Also, they didn't bundle in any of the card sleeves, the 5 dice for each of the Expansions. And they shorted players on the blinds. This was done across the board, for all US backers, and appears to be a deliberate penny-saving action.
It's been 2 full business days since these issues were raised, and it's been radio silence from SPM the entire time.
As a result of this, several SDE:Legends backers are now pursuing refunds, given the lack of a delivery date and the now high uncertainty toward actual delivery fulfillment, while others are speculating as to the financial solvency of the company.
Unfortunately, Soda Pop really only makes some interesting anime style miniatures, and that's about it. They aren't known for interesting or good rules, the latest relic knights playtest is a mess, their current board and card games are crunchy ameritrash in the bad way.
So, unless they plan to put T&A on all the trolls on these cards, not sure what they're expecting to do with this license?
Apparently they have responded via facebook although I can't find it myself(but clearly not via an official update yet but i'll give them a pass as they may well still be recovering/returning from gencon)
I will update everyone with the situation and solution. As some kits were packed in China missing screens, slips, and some dice. We know who needs what, it was easy to track down, and are prepping mailers to get everyone thier stuff.
so they seem to be addressing it and it's so obviously wrong I can't see it being a conscious choice on their part, much more likely a screwup in the production instructions to the factory, or a mistake by the factory
(I wonder if that's part of the reason the rest of the world stuff is still in China, they caught but kept quiet about the issue and held production to fix it as mailing separate replacements overseas would be a killer)
(photo posted on facebook by Tim Salisbury)
the above shows what at least some people seem to be getting in the way of boxes so the Lock Box isn't as bad as some seem to be making out (plain box but I bet some were counting on selling the retail version and just keeping the bonus minis to paint. So not having the retail box is an issue as it is clearly show on the KS that you get both (and it's what they've done before with for example Forgotten King) so I'll wait to see what happens with that
Yup. SPM chose not to deliver RRI in the retail box that they showed in the Campaign. Also, they didn't bundle in any of the card sleeves, the 5 dice for each of the Expansions. And they shorted players on the blinds. This was done across the board, for all US backers, and appears to be a deliberate penny-saving action.
It's been 2 full business days since these issues were raised, and it's been radio silence from SPM the entire time.
As a result of this, several SDE:Legends backers are now pursuing refunds, given the lack of a delivery date and the now high uncertainty toward actual delivery fulfillment, while others are speculating as to the financial solvency of the company.
Honestly - it's being ridiculously overblown.
Here's what's missing:
3 blinds for a dice-based mini-game that was included as a free stretch goal. Easily replaced by any piece of paper/cardboard/book etc.
Cardsleeves - am not really sure what these are for - as I can't see them giving out 200+ card sleeves to everyone (to cover every card inlcuded in the game).
10 dice - 5 from each expansion - this needs to be fixed before hitting retail. (as the expansions bump up the max player count) But for backers - we already got 40 dice - enough for 8 players (the game, with expansions, only supports up to 6).
A box. The game (and all the free extras) comes in a nice, attractive box that neatly holds all the cards, etc. I'd guess at some point Soda Pop realized there really wasn't a need for a bonus box to hold all the extras. It would be kinda dumb to literally ship everyone an empty box.
I get people are upset about SDE: Legends being so late. But it really just seems like people are looking for a reason to throw a fit here. Soda Pop (having just gotten back from Gen Con) also sent out an update today mentioning the missing components and offering to ship them (for free) to anyone who contacts them.
Will also say - upon first inspection - am very pleased with the quality of the minis. Very minimal mold lines compared to the stuff that came with SDE: TFK. (some of which were a nightmare to clean - a longtime problem with SDE minis).
It's completely overblown because you have absolutely everything you need to play/enjoy the game of Rail Raiders Infinite - which is what you pledged for.
Nobody pledged for the game to get an extra box, or 10 more redundant dice, or cardsleeves - people bitch about those things as "fake stretch goals" during campaigns.
And it's fine to want it remedied (which, again, Soda Pop is offering to do) but the level of tantrum in the KS comments is ridiculous.
Schmapdi wrote: It's completely overblown because you have absolutely everything you need to play/enjoy the game of Rail Raiders Infinite - which is what you pledged for.
Nobody pledged for the game to get an extra box, or 10 more redundant dice, or cardsleeves - people bitch about those things as "fake stretch goals" during campaigns.
And it's fine to want it remedied (which, again, Soda Pop is offering to do) but the level of tantrum in the KS comments is ridiculous.
Sorry, but when a company states clearly what is to be delivered and then doesn't deliver it, it is a big deal. When I buy a car, if the stereo isn't the higher-end that was promised, I'm still going to be pissed even if the car itself is all I needed.
And everyone is missing the big picture here. This is the kinda thing that companies do when they are under financial pressure. Its called "cutting corners" and then hoping the customer doesn't care. Combined with the fact that the Relic Knights 2 Kickstarter made about half of what they were expecting is worrisome. I'm really hoping they aren't using the proceeds from more current Kickstarters to cover the cost over-runs on their past Kickstarters. And its starting to feel like they are....
The Trollslayer Card Game is a head-scratcher. For many, SPM's strength has been their world-building and interesting modelling ideas, not their rules-design. So to take a already-existing license and then build rules for it is... strange.
I really wish SPM would focus on their two premiere games and get those right. Everything else is a distraction - and its pissing me off.
I'd initially thought the card game (and since card games can pull in much better money than minis games for an equivalent outlay) was going to be from a new designer,
but no it's by the two leads on Relic Knights, Cadice and Freeman
so they've either been thinking about this when they should have been dealing with the as yet unfinished SDE Legends and Relic Knights,
or the game they've announced is a long, long way off (and that I doubt as there's no point paying the licence fee until the game's basically done, it just doesn't make financial sense)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'd initially thought the card game (and since card games can pull in much better money than minis games for an equivalent outlay) was going to be from a new designer,
but no it's by the two leads on Relic Knights, Cadice and Freeman
so they've either been thinking about this when they should have been dealing with the as yet unfinished SDE Legends and Relic Knights,
or the game they've announced is a long, long way off (and that I doubt as there's no point paying the licence fee until the game's basically done, it just doesn't make financial sense)
Or it's a card game they made a long time ago and sat on for a long time, or it's a reskin/minor reworking of an existing card game, or it's something they worked on in between breaks of SDE/Relic Knights as a way to not go insane, or ...
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'd initially thought the card game (and since card games can pull in much better money than minis games for an equivalent outlay) was going to be from a new designer,
but no it's by the two leads on Relic Knights, Cadice and Freeman
so they've either been thinking about this when they should have been dealing with the as yet unfinished SDE Legends and Relic Knights,
or the game they've announced is a long, long way off (and that I doubt as there's no point paying the licence fee until the game's basically done, it just doesn't make financial sense)
Or it's a card game they made a long time ago and sat on for a long time, or it's a reskin/minor reworking of an existing card game, or it's something they worked on in between breaks of SDE/Relic Knights as a way to not go insane, or ...
I mean... they've failed to get those games right after multiple tries now. I assume once they hired Justin to take care of things they were more or less out of the picture.
So I noticed that Sodapop has started selling their base inserts, except instead of being able to order just 30mm or 40s or 50s, they give you a bunch of them at once and you're probably going to be stuck with leftovers
They're pretty awesome. Pretty much the best PVC thing to come out of Relic Knights 1. I'm just amazed it took so long to sell them, but sad they don't let you pick sizes.
Our next stretch goal hero is Cola, from Soda Pop Miniatures!
Cola from Soda Pop Miniatures and Ninja division is going to lend his aid the Wanderers Guild to take on Elder Bane and his Cult of the Deep! He is a Soda Bombardier, smashing soda bombs to give his friends buffs and his enemies loads of problems! This cross over model is a playable expansion hero that comes with his own model, hero card, starting equipment, and initiative card!
Cola is also our first paid hero add-on. He'll cost $12, so if you want to pick him up just add $12 to your pledge! You'll be able to pick him during the pledge management phase with the money credited to your pledge.
**Important Note: He will not come with a Super Dungeon Explore card. This is due to the visual stylistic differences between the games. **
Here's the full design:
We are so excited to finally be able to reveal this amazing news! Let us know what you think in the comments, and as always #keepcalmandwanderon!
Maniac_nmt wrote: You know, if these guys really have started production on SDE and have models like they appear to claim, why aren't they showing them?
Surely they have some prototypes?
In theory, production started last week, so in theory, they should be able to show actual production miniatures, not just pre-production prototypes.
Paizo and Ninja Division Publishing are excited to announce a new project that will be launching on Wednesday, September 27, 2017. Both companies are keeping the details close to the vest until then. However, all are encouraged to pay close attention to the websites for both companies (Paizo.com and NinjaDivision.com), as well as their social media sites on Facebook and Twitter on Wednesday at 12 p.m. EST for all the details on this exciting new adventure.
more minis? more delays on the already announced minis, we wait to find out
Some of the minis offered here are the same that were preorder last month. Creator advised:
"Hi there Bill,
The miniatures you have pre-ordered are still on the way. We will be fulfilling your pre-orders of the promotional line we did for Gencon. We wanted to include those designs in this Kickstarter to give other people a chance at getting some, as they will come from the same manufacturer, and be less limited. This does not effect your order, and those miniatures are in process to get out to you and other pre-orders right away. For those reading this - we had a short period we offered a promotional pre-order of 8 of the Key Iconic characters from the Starfinder RPG for the last 45 days. They are now included in the campaign if you missed them there."
Interesting that they're running this one under the Ninja Division Publishing banner as '1st created'
perhaps the moaning about the SDE Legends and Rail Raiders delays was felt to be too toxic
or perhaps it's actually this Lazy Squires Games they mention in the FAQs actually doing it and just using the greater recognition of the Ninja Division brand (the name only brings up a single google hit for one of those mail drop of a million companies places so must be really new)
I'm tempted to say the least. Lots of random xenos? Sign me up!
Especially with all them reptiles and multi limbed humanoids...
From the FAQ What type of material are these figures made out of?
The models in the Masterclass series are high quality resin. Resin provides amazing detail bringing out the highest fidelity of these masterfully sculpted models.
Its nice to see they are following on CMONs garbage way of handling KSes. NEw kickstarter while most of our others are not done, or missing lots of items. But hey this wont strain any resources at all! Everythings fine here!
Get my missing rail raiders items and put the nail in the coffin for SPM
I must admit I was a little annoyed to realise the Way of the Fighter KS all the RoW rail raiders backers had to wait for so they could double up on the shipping wasn't actually total fulfilment of that project
they haven't even started making the minis for it yet (although they say they're designed) and are now planning a 2nd wave to deliver those but the project was only meant to deliver last month so if they only needed to wait a month or so for the minis they could have delivered all at once and probably within the 6 month late you kind of expect for KS
they say this on pre-paints in the comments (which I admit I wasn't aware of them planning to do but obviously I missed that press release)
Hi Jeroen
Yes, we are working with Paizo on a pre-painted line of miniatures for the broader market of players so there will be a growing line of pre-paints over time. These, however, are much slower to make, so as that range grows, we have an opportunity to get you a HUGE range of miniatures specific to Starfinder as soon as possible. This will go a long ways to enhance your player communities, and get your adventures going full steam until the pre-paints can catch up. (Also, these models are SOOOOO crisp and awesome - pre-paints are made from different materials, and dont look as nice if you want to put a little color on them. )
so it does sound a bit iffy for the prepaints showing any time soon if these will be quicker
Pre-paints are still scheduled for November and there haven't been any announcements otherwise - it will be a more limited selection though and probably not as nice as the resin models.
Interesting. I was going to get the prepaints but maybe I will see how far this one gets. I don't like the idea that ND is preemptively hedging their bets by forming a new company that coincidentally insulates them financially while still banking on their other name recognition. It smacks too much of having their cake and eating it too when they've apparently got issues with ongoing/prior campaigns judging from the comments.
warboss wrote: I don't like the idea that ND is preemptively hedging their bets by forming a new company that coincidentally insulates them financially while still banking on their other name recognition.
Ninja Division official company name is Ninja Division Publishing, LLC they didn't form a new company. That is at least what I found from a post from 2012 when they were hiring a Marketing Manager which lists the company as Ninja Division Publishing, LLC. They did, however, create a new Kickstarter account under Ninja Division Publishing instead of using Soda Pop KS account.
warboss wrote: I don't like the idea that ND is preemptively hedging their bets by forming a new company that coincidentally insulates them financially while still banking on their other name recognition.
Ninja Division official company name is Ninja Division Publishing, LLC they didn't form a new company. That is at least what I found from a post from 2012 when they were hiring a Marketing Manager which lists the company as Ninja Division Publishing, LLC. They did, however, create a new Kickstarter account under Ninja Division Publishing instead of using Soda Pop KS account.
Thanks for the clarification. Swap "kickstarter account" in for "company" in my previous post and it does make it less worriesome as there are some people not at both companies (albeit several big names like John at both) and legitmate reasons for doing so.
Asmodai wrote: Pre-paints are still scheduled for November and there haven't been any announcements otherwise - it will be a more limited selection though and probably not as nice as the resin models.
I assume the plastics will be much cheaper, even prepainted. Resin might be worth it for me if they have a large range of spaceships compared to the four(?) coming out in plastic.
Asmodai wrote: Pre-paints are still scheduled for November and there haven't been any announcements otherwise - it will be a more limited selection though and probably not as nice as the resin models.
I assume the plastics will be much cheaper, even prepainted. Resin might be worth it for me if they have a large range of spaceships compared to the four(?) coming out in plastic.
Much cheaper? It looks like they'll be $8 a mini if this entry on paizo's site is still valid for the prepainted sets ($40 for 5 normal sized characters).
Asmodai wrote: Pre-paints are still scheduled for November and there haven't been any announcements otherwise - it will be a more limited selection though and probably not as nice as the resin models.
I assume the plastics will be much cheaper, even prepainted. Resin might be worth it for me if they have a large range of spaceships compared to the four(?) coming out in plastic.
Much cheaper? It looks like they'll be $8 a mini if this entry on paizo's site is still valid for the prepainted sets ($40 for 5 normal sized characters).
Hmmmm. I was mixing up the Miniature Market price with the MSRP. Three spaceships for $27 is on the high side of acceptable, but 3 28mm heroes and a ship is a bit much to ask $30 for. So, unless the resins are even cheaper, I guess the whole range is a write-off...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok, I didn't realize this was live yet. I am definitely going to wait for retail.
Yeah, I was a bit surprised at the cost of the prepaints. Unless the paint jobs are better than the old SWM and DDM lines' rares I'm familiar with, it seems a bit steep for prepaints. I wasn't impressed with the pathfinder prepaints either but I dont know if ND was involved.
Ninja Division had planned to release the pre-painted Starfinder Miniatures in the fall of 2017. However, due to a rigorous approvals process and our commitment to release the highest quality product possible, we will be delaying the release of the following products until March of 2018:
NJD060101 Starfinder Miniatures: Iconic Heroes Set 1
NJD060102 Starfinder Miniatures: Iconic Heroes Set 2
NJD060201 Starfinder Miniatures: Pact Worlds Fleet Set 1
NJD060301 Starfinder Miniatures: Corpse Fleet Set 1
In other news regarding releases from Ninja Division Publishing, it was also announced today that the Way of The Fighter arcade-style fighting game will be delayed until the first quarter of 2018 in order to make sure that all Kickstarter backers of the project have their pledge rewards fulfilled prior to any trade release.
Glad I got a refund on Relic Knights a few months ago. ND/SPM are clearly out of their depth now, instead of focusing on the games they already have that they haven't the resources to finish they keep adding more presumably to pay for the earlier games - there's a name for that . It all seems to have started to go wrong with the split from CMON I think they thought they could emulate what CMON were doing and become publishing house with a load of games the problem is they haven't the know how or resource to do it.
I'm still in for SDE I'm not going to look for a refund there it's their flag ship game I think they'll do whatever they can to save that one if SDE fails it's game over for ND/SPM.
Wondering if I should grab a refund while it's still being offered...
If I were you, I'd read the RRI, WotF, RK2 and Starfinder comments in addition to the SDE:L comments to get the "big pictures" of what SPM/ND is doing as a company. SPM seems to be falling short on everything, including their most recent promises.
Today, SPM said they were 4 weeks backlogged on admin (i.e. refunds). In reality, refunds have not been processed in over 3 weeks. However, in a week, "ND" will receive their Starfinder funds from KS. At that point, I expect to see the logjam break on refunds. If you want a refund, I'd submit on Monday, at the latest. Otherwise, that money will be spent on SDE Wave 1, and refunds will be "delayed" again.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DaveC wrote: Glad I got a refund on Relic Knights a few months ago. ND/SPM are clearly out of their depth now, instead of focusing on the games they already have that they haven't the resources to finish they keep adding more presumably to pay for the earlier games - there's a name for that . It all seems to have started to go wrong with the split from CMON I think they thought they could emulate what CMON were doing and become publishing house with a load of games the problem is they haven't the know how or resource to do it.
I'm still in for SDE I'm not going to look for a refund there it's their flag ship game I think they'll do whatever they can to save that one if SDE fails it's game over for ND/SPM.
SPM/ND can't juggle 4 games, and it's amazing that anyone thinks they can successfully deliver a 5th. CMoN has a core of guys who understand business, and can actually manage things. I think SPM will do their best and eventually deliver Wave 1, but if they run out of money, well, so much for Wave 2...
SPM/ND removed me as a Backer of the Legends KS in order to censor me in the comments, but in reading things, it's not gone well.
Refunds are running over 30 days to process, and it looks like others are getting antsy.
Starting the new year, and it's obvious to many backers that SPM/ND won't make their mid-April delivery estimate, given that they haven't even started production of Wave 1, much less gotten anything on the water.
If anyone is still backing Legends, I'd strongly advise to get your refund request in by Feb 7th, before SPM/ND arbitrarily cuts off refunds without any notice.
Time to thank my lucky star again that I disliked enough sculpts (like orcs and resculpted dragon babies) to not back Legends. I spend way too much on FK. I might hunt down the Von Drakk Manor stuff and stop thinking about SPM stuff. The Owlbear hatchlings and ghosts were so damn cute, though :(
Hmm. I got my RRI pledge yesterday, so that's one KS off the list for me. I still have Legends going.
I know, I should ask for a refund...but I'm still torn. On one side, it's not looking well and it's been so long I don't really expect much from the game...on the other, the main reason I pledged was the miniatures and I still want them.
I'm aware it will take time if I ask refund anyway.
To be honest, I don't really want SPM to fail. I like this company and what they're doing (mostly miniatures, I admit - never really played Ninja All Stars, but I love their design). I'll wait a bit more and see...and if it fails, well, too bad for me, I guess.
@Sarouan - it's not a question of whether you want SPM to fail, it's really a question of whether one recognizes that SPM is already failing as a company.
If you look at the facts, SPM has been failing to deliver on anything of what they've said for the past several months. By failing to show signs of available cash flow (e.g. processing refunds, tooling Wave 1+), SPM is actually showing every sign of a company that is about to go under. If one were to look at their balance sheet, and include outstanding KS activity, they're almost certainly bankrupt: i.e. SPM owes things to KS backers that they no longer have the financial resources to deliver. That's a lot of the reason SPM has rebranded as "ND" and is taking on every other bit of anything that makes a penny for them. They spent a *lot* of money getting into publishing and distribution, along with expanding their range from SDE into RRI, NAS, WotF, etc. That money obviously came from SDE's coffers, and it's not really paid off, hence the huge delays that we're seeing. And they don't want to admit it, hence the radio silence about anything hard or real.
I am not sure on the not wanting to fail part, you are really against them for so long time, iirc it started because you did not like how the rules (d)evolved and snowballed ever since.
To be entirely honest I am hard to think you been positive about them or not encouraging someone to drop their pledge.
You may be right, that will not change the fact you seem to be really pushing on them to fail.
I have been unhappy with SPM's direction for a very long time, particularly how they've *completely* changed the rules, but that is very different from wanting them to fail.
Once it became clear that SDE's "Classic" rules were becoming something I didn't want to play (because they are objectively badly designed: slow, tedious and badly balanced), I walked way from those rules. But that wasn't a big deal, because I'd been working on alternate rules following the Forgotten King's rules debacle. I spent a *lot* of time developing multiple rulesets (Shadow Delve, Adorable Mayhem!, Attack of the Dire) specifically to continue using their existing SDE product, with the notion of adding more SDE product to the pile.
The problem for me is that there is nothing positive to say about them. For the past several months, SPM/ND has not actually done anything positive with respect to SDE. It's been all lies and smoke. Not a single bit of transparency or honesty from them. They're basically acting like Palladium for Robotech or any of the other scumbag scammers. I pointedly, and repeatedly asked SPM them for evidence that one could believe in them as a company, that they were actually doing the things they said they would, so that they could be held accountable to the backers. SPM/ND consistently failed to do so. They would say they would do something, and then completely fail to follow through. And then, they would ignore any related request, as if it would go away. Their behavior has been fundamentally dishonest for months.
So yes, for several months, I've been pointing out that they're a bad company. But wishing they would fail? Not really. Simply reporting the facts that they are failing.
If they actually had any good news to report about the SDEKS I had backed, I would have fairly credited them for that. For example, when they actually processed my refund in a timely fashion (because I'm a very squeaky wheel), I credited them for doing so. OTOH, when they held up others for over a month (because they were ignorable), I called them out for that, too.
Or, let me spin this a little differently: Why aren't YOU personally praising President Donald Trump for all the good things he's done? That's the exact analogy. There's basically nothing to say.
Em because I am not a US citizen? and while USA does affect many minor countries globally, it is has nothing to do with us? Besides why praise him or not praise him on a forum about wargames and boardgames?
On the actual conversation I think your "campaign" may have caused more damage and delays from people you persuade them to flee than SPM incompetence, you are after all as you admitted quite influential.
I don't know if their project is deliverable, I see they do sell other products and seem to go otherwise well, but their KS projects are quite the train-wreak.
To be fair, Soda Pop seem to be spinning their wheels. SDE has missed all dates supplied so far, typically with nothing to show for it.
Kickstarter is, effectively, a venture capitalist site for the masses. The problem is that there is little recourse when folks don't live up to their deliverables and then obfuscate about them.
To make matters worse, they started loosing credibility when they began to run multiple new campaigns with nothing to show for the first. I'm glad RRI finally got sent, but SDE, and Relic Knights are in trouble, then they've got other projects that are in the works and all went late.
It is not unreasonable for people who put up money to be grumpy that there is no delivery and no end in sight. Essentially the lesson should be, buy and support nothing from them until it releases. They cannot be trusted to hit their dates (I gave them the benefit of the doubt after how long NAS was to ship, but am glad my co-backer was also having doubts over SDE, as it got ridiculous).
...and then there was Relic Knights, who seems to be following the tradition set forth by its forefathers of taking forever and a day with no end in sight.
I admit I stopped following the updates and comments from Legends since a long time, especially when they became too focused on rule previews and complains. How the game is balanced isn't really what I'm after - it's really the art design and the miniatures. I know I will barely play the game at all.
Kickstarters projects tend to have more and more delays and are less interesting these times in comparison to before, IMHO. So I think Legends will be the last one I will support.
Censorship isn't a good thing, to me. Sure, it's not enjoyable to see constant negativity in the comments, but there is always a reason behind. Just shutting people up isn't the answer, from my point of view.
I still want the miniatures...and I think if I'm pulling the plug out now, there is a certainty I won't get them. Yes, I know, I must be stupid for still clinging to that hope, but hey...I waited that long and I already gave that money two years ago. Getting it back now would certainly be good, but it's not like I made my current budget hoping to have it right now...
Yes, but only partially so. The basic sculpts are out, but the Starfinder Masterclass minis have yet to emerge.
"Production" means that they are making the actual product (minis, in this case) that will go to the backer / consumer. This would be piles of miniatures in trays, along with stacks of boxes and so forth.
Right now, ND is only showing digital renders of proposed product from their design team. That is all very inexpensive (relatively speaking) stuff that counts as days of designer labor. Some would say that ALL of the concept and design work should have been completed prior to KS launch, but maybe SPM needed KS money to pay the designer.
SPM/ND haven't even done any of the pre-production work like 3-D printed masters, much less hard tooling and verification, before "pressing the button" to make 1,000s of each item, and packaging them for shipment, prior to delivery of getting final product into backer hands. That's the stuff that starts to cost real money, and SPM isn't anywhere near there at this point.
Right now, Starfinder is where Legends was 18-20 months ago: Pledge Manager open, and asking for more money.
At this point, it looks like SPM is out of cash, with bankruptcy looming. I would be shocked if SPM survives the year.
I would strongly advise people to wait for SPM/ND product to hit the shelf (immediately followed by MM clearance) before spending any money on their product.
Alliance seem to be trying to move to an exclusive distribution model (they've now got one with Asmodee which is pretty huge in terms of their market share)
so it's not impossible that staying with Soda Pop (who don't want to play that game.... or havn't been invited to?) would have been a foolish move for SSE
or JohnHwangDD might be right
but
Way of the Figher is real and they will have stock as that's why the Rail Raiders stuff was delayed for us in Europe so WoTF could ship in the same containers, (although the WoTF has yet to ship in Europe it is here and just waiting for a list of addresses from Soda Pop
I'd warn against making predictions that Relic Knights 2 won't be delivered, that Ninja Division will go under (declare bankruptcy), etc.
I've been fairly critical of ND in the past (some of their recent decisions have frustrated me to no end). But KS delays are commonplace these days, and ND had run into the normal challenges faced by small companies (key personnel with sickness, etc.).
Curious to see how things turn out, but best not to speculate, reason being it can create worry and make more people request refunds - a spiral which then ends in self-fulfilling prophesy...
And why shouldn't anyone predict the looming failure of SPM/ND?
There is a very big difference between a "commonplace" delay, and the outright shenanigans that SPM/ND are pulling and the bald-faced lies that go with them. SPM/ND are lying with respect to goods to be delivered and financial obligations, so that makes them cheats and fraudsters to boot. This is ALL based on by SPM's actual words and actions, and would be defensible in a court of law, along with California's anti-SLAPP law).
Commonplace delay is simply that, a delay. But the actual business of delivering the Kickstarter continues. The business continues to deliver on its obligations and fulfills its financial obilgations in a timely fashion. Tangible progress continues to be demonstrable, and the only visible change is that the timeline is extended from the previous estimate.
In the case of SDE:Legends, SPM/ND has made absolutely no effort to deliver the KS to backers. They have made repeated claims about being ready to enter production, but and those deadlines have been glaringly missed without any update or comment. When pressed for evidence of progress, or even some sort of plan, SPM is completely silent - because they have no progress to show, and no plan to ever deliver. The only "production" that SPM has shown are pre-production masters and white packaging. Not the piles of miniatures and stacks of print that people had expected.
Lately, the only time they bothered to communicate is when they came hat-in-hand for more money (i.e. Starfinder), and even then, they rebranded as "Ninja Division" (the 2nd) because the SPM brand was overly tainted by both the SDE and RRI KS debacles. During this time, SPM/ND stated refunds were available, and said they would be processed within a certain timeframe, first several days, then a week or two, then the claimed a month backlog. At this point, multiple backers are stating that SPM has delayed refunds for months, multiple months, and that SPM is now refusing to acknowledge demands for payment owed as agreed.
As for my speculation, well, the latest run on refunds in the SDE:L KS isn't my doing. SPM force refunded me a while ago, specifically to prevent me from commenting in the KS. At this point, it's the KS backers themselves finally figuring out that SPM has been lying to them for months, and that there is absolutely no way for SPM to deliver as most recently promised. There simply isn't enough time in the year Previously, this was a reprisal that SPM applied to Insider714, who had openly questioned SPM's financial health, along with RRI backers who had tried to warn Starfinder backers about SPM's shenanigains.
And looking at RRI, SPM surprised backers by cutting corners on packaging (which allowed them to save on shipping). They also unilaterally held up shipment in to further save on shipping. Then they unilaterally replaced several larger pledged items with a handful of (much smaller & cheaper to produce and mail) playing cards. Then, they tried to cheap out on SDE packaging, and only relented when backers referred back to the Campaign page of what SPM was offering.
It all adds up to an excessive amount of penny pinching and cash holding that is indicative of a company that is broke, if not actually bankrupt. At this point, the only way I'd believe SPM not to be bankrupt is for them to release their Big 4 audited tax returns for review.
Mark my words, these are the last gasps of a company that is about to go under. Not a company that is merely delaying delivery.
Look, you may be right, you may be completely wrong, but what you say is just a speculation on your part without any real evidence, on top of the fact you were negative about them even when they were delivering, it is not a really neutral opinion you have, hence why I said earlier you simply what them to fail.
Why should they give you (or anybody else) their financial records? aren't those secret? the industry behaves with them as if they are a fully functioning company is that an indication they are doing ok?
Look, you may be right, you may be completely wrong, but what you say is just a speculation on your part without any real evidence, on top of the fact you were negative about them even when they were delivering, it is not a really neutral opinion you have, hence why I said earlier you simply what them to fail.
Why should they give you (or anybody else) their financial records? aren't those secret? the industry behaves with them as if they are a fully functioning company is that an indication they are doing ok?
The evidence is how SPM is not spending money: * RRI stretch goal non-delivery * RRI non-retail packaging * RRI substitution of SGs * RRI non-US fulfillment delay * SDEL split into Wave 1 & 2 * SDEL Wave 1 production not started * SDEL non-retail packaging * SDEL refunds delayed for months * SDEL Updates suspended indefinitely * Justin out ALL of those are where SPM is cutting corners and not delivering against their promises, and the common thread is that they ALL cost money. One or two of them in isolation aren't an issue, but combined, they form a pattern that provides clear proof that the company is lacks the cash to provide refunds or deliver product. The fact that they no longer communicate except to ask for money only adds to it.
Again, it's not me wanting them to fail; rather, it's me seeing that they are a failed concern, that they are no longer a viable company, and are no longer capable of delivering Legends. If they were viable, then those would have been minor setbacks, and they would have started actual production by now. And they would have communicated that to the backers, and processed the refunds that they promised to people. Instead, they've gone from testable lies to silence.
Also WRT financials, please read more carefully. I believe that SPM is bankrupt, that their liabilities exceed cash on hand. I can be persuaded otherwise, by verifiable proof, which would be their audited financials. They are not a secret, as evidenced by their publication by all public companies, although I can understand why SPM would want to keep them a secret.
As evidenced by SSE/S7 terminating their business partnership with ND, the industry clearly does not act as if they are a fully functioning company. SSE/S7 voted with their feet, giving a very loud and clear "No Confidence" in ND going forward.
Finally, you need to distinguish between "being negative" and "assessing the facts". There are NO positive facts related to SPM/ND, and haven't been for a very long time, well, aside from them managing to raise some money on Paizo's Starfinder property. But that positive is heavily colored by SPM/ND having to rebrand themselves to do so, trying to get around the fact that SDEL and RRI were both hugely overdue and failing KS... But you tell me this: If SPM/ND is actually a healthy company, by what basis would you say so? What are they doing that makes you think so? Do you have any evidence that they are fulfilling any of their business obligations, as opposed to the growing litany of voices to the contrary? Go on, I'm a patient man.
I'm not a RRI backer (dodged that bullet!), but I have been following the RRI comments from time to time, as RRI backers had been alluding to SPM's bad behavior on that KS, and were concerned it would carry over to SDEL. As I understand it:
SPM has been basically ignoring RRI and not giving them the Updates that they had originally promised, then promised to restore (at the time of the Starfinder campaign, after several disgruntled RRI backers started bombing the "ND" Starfinder campaign).
In short, during the KS campaign, SPM showed RRI retail packaging for the base game, and unlocked SGs for additional blinds and stuff. When KS backers received their stuff, everything was packed into the KS-exclusive "bonus" box, replacing the retail game packaging; however, SPM was delivering retail product in the retail boxes. SPM simply up and decided not to include the retail box that was shown in the campaign.
Then, as backers unpacked their stuff, they were consistently short-packed, missing all but one the SG-unlocked blinds.
Then, non-US backers found out that they weren't getting shipment until it could be combined with another SPM delivery, so they were iced for months, without any way to get refunds.
Ultimately, instead of providing the blinds, etc. that were promised during the KS, as backers had expected, SPM announced that everybody would get a few cheap cards instead of the slightly more expensive items that they were supposed to deliver.
From a contracts POV, SPM unilaterally breached the contract and pushed an inadequate cure without informing the backers. SPM refused to acknowledge refund non-US requests due because they had claimed the 8-week window had passed, even tough the non-US backers were heavily delayed.
It's a complete failure of business ethics.
And all this time, SPM has basically refused to communicate with the RRI backers who have been demanding answers to their legitimate grievances.
I fully expect ex-RRI backers to show up in force to burn down any other SPM/ND project going forward.
1. the stretch goal for a fancy KS box meant the retail box got removed (although the actual KS info suggested we'd get both)
2. There was a stretch goal for card sleaves (but never enough to cover all the cards so it was always going to be pointless unless you bought extras) which it turned out they couldn't get done for some reason (too expensive?, manufacturers wouldn't take such a small order? too long a waiting time? who knows, I've certainly has crazy long waits for sleave restocks from Swan and FFG so that might be true)
so we got given a few extra loot cards which for actually playing the game is better (although not what we backed for)
I never got my RR kickstarter, got my way of the fighter one minus miniatures, which is most of what I wanted. Oh well Rising Sun and Smog should be delivered soon. SDE is never coming out as far as I can tell
Hmmm...they certainly sent updates a less lot frequently than in the first months, but from my point of view as a RRI and SDEL backer (and everything SDE before, to be honest), it's not as bad as you are saying here.
They kept doing updates, even if they didn't have much to say and they were more spaced in time. While I think they indeed seem to have taken a bit too many projects at the same time (and wasn't really sure of their strategy of redoing the whole game system after the kickstarter was funded), to say it's a complete failure of business ethics feel a bit too much to me.
After all, RRI pledges are being delivered. Sure, SDEL seems to have some way before that step.
Not saying it's going smoothly, far from it, but I have seen much much worse as a Kickstarter.dealing company.
I fully expect ex-RRI backers to show up in force to burn down any other SPM/ND project going forward.
I dunno... I got my RRI pledge and everything is fine inside. I think it's more general for Kickstarters, though. I feel like they are less interesting than in the past, with delays becoming more common. It really feels more like pre-orders with a much higher waiting time. So yeah, I think I'll be good waiting for the product to be in stores. Who knows what I will be playing in one or two years later, after all.
I'll admit that I follow ND/Soda Pop/whatever perpipherally... I'm curious what portion of their crowdfunding efforts that they were involved in (whether solo or as a big name partner) were delivered without a major hitch? (as in on time or <6 months late with all rewards as promised in quantity and quality). I pledged on their dual project with Palladium (Robotech Tactics) and that is still stuck in the mud (albeit for the last 3 years solely because of Palladium) but their prior effort to that (relic knights) suffered from a lot of problems as well.
I can't speak to WotF or RK2, as they didn't interest me at all.
RK2 the last comment was on Jan 5: "My mom has been doing poorly for some time, and I am told there are likely only a few days left. So I'll be taking some time away, and I'm not certain when I will be back."
On Jan 17 they sent an update that boils down to "On the model side, we had a brief setback when we discovered that an incorrect mold had been made for the starter set. The generic tonnerian stalker had been made instead of Miss Kaylee. We have already corrected this, and sent a new Miss Kaylee master on to the manufacturer to get molds made. In the meantime, we are still just waiting for our slot to come up for model production to begin on the other items. Once that begins, I'll do what I can to get some pictures to share."
The starter was supposed to deliver in Feb, so they still have time.
The comments are full of people who requested refunds and are getting no response.
Rail Raiders was a total mess. They announced North America had shipped in August, but only actually shipped to most of the US. It's almost like they don't know the difference between the country and the continent, as they seem to use North America and United States interchangeably.
When I requested a refund 2-3 months later so I could just buy it at my LGS, they said they would cancel my shipment if I wanted, but no refunds. It finally arrived last Friday, 5 months after I could buy it on store shelves, 2 months after I could buy a Black Friday special from them directly.
The offer to cancel my pledge and keep my money was the last straw. Hopefully they treasure that $100, because I will never pay a single dollar for an item bearing their name again.
brettness37 wrote: The offer to cancel my pledge and keep my money was the last straw. Hopefully they treasure that $100, because I will never pay a single dollar for an item bearing their name again.
Yeah, that's not good customer service when you're not even having a plan to deliver. No doubt non-US is going to suffer mightily going forward. Did you have to pay Customs / VAT when it finally did arrive?
As for buying stuff, I had only wanted the Midnight Tower stuff from Legends, but it's looking like that won't ever be produced.
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Bossk_Hogg wrote: Ugh, I just realized they are apparently done w US shipping, but I never got mine. Wish me luck on this gak show...
Oh, that's not good. The plus side is that your stuff should have been produced, so they should be able to ship it without too much hassle or delay. Keyword "should"... Still, it's not like you're asking for a refund...
brettness37 wrote: The offer to cancel my pledge and keep my money was the last straw. Hopefully they treasure that $100, because I will never pay a single dollar for an item bearing their name again.
Yeah, that's not good customer service when you're not even having a plan to deliver. No doubt non-US is going to suffer mightily going forward. Did you have to pay Customs / VAT when it finally did arrive?
As for buying stuff, I had only wanted the Midnight Tower stuff from Legends, but it's looking like that won't ever be produced.
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Bossk_Hogg wrote: Ugh, I just realized they are apparently done w US shipping, but I never got mine. Wish me luck on this gak show...
Oh, that's not good. The plus side is that your stuff should have been produced, so they should be able to ship it without too much hassle or delay. Keyword "should"... Still, it's not like you're asking for a refund...
Good luck, though, you're still going to need it.
Nah, they had a shipping hub in Canada, so none of that. Being told it should be shipped "in about a week" 5 months ago kind of took any shine off that not paying extra fees may have added though hahaha
Sweetheart Candy is a limited edition Super Dungeon model that is only available for order during the month of February. Preorders will close March 1, at 12:00am MST. We will then do a special made-to-order production run of this adorable new version of Candy, just for you!
Sweetheart Candy is only available during the month of February. Don't miss out, order yours today!
Sweetheart Candy will be made-to-order after preorders close March 1. Anticipated delivery is April 2018.
Glad to see them doing things like this- small print run items in manageable quantities that can help inject more cash rather quickly back into the company.
Love the artstyle, will probably be happy with the final model quality...
...and then I attempt to figure out those rules and I remember why I get so frustrated with SDE's rules.
I truly do wish this game played more along the lines of Heroquest than what it currently does.
I may grab one if it helps ensure my pledges show up though.
I understand it is related to the 14 february, but I don't really like that kind of move...especially when they just put the artwork and not the actual miniature, you know...
It's sad to see they seem to go on that road of "limited for a special time only" for SDE...
The other thing to consider with SPM is how many of their KS went to retail BEFORE fulfilment to backers. Every campaign, SPM promise that this will not be the case. Every Campaign its in Retail first. Relic Knights may have been a year late for US Backers, but for the RoW it was 18 months and sold in Retail. Rail Raiders, in Retail before Backers.
Another thing to consider is their choice or resin manufacturer. Everyone’s favourite Polish Company, PRODOS Games. PRODOS, who’ve still over 1,800 backers out of 2,200 yet to have their pledges fulfilled for AVP KS from 5 years ago. It’s been in retail so long they’ve released a 2nd edition and still over 400 backers yet to receive anything. This company, is who SPM are using to produce their resins, for RK v2 at least. Not very ethical.
Also consider what’s been happening at SPM since SDE Legends went live. To put this into context, PRODOS Games used funds from their AVP KS, to pay for their previous KS. Spartan Games launched a KS for Dystopian Wars, to receive a cash injection. Then before fulfilment, launched a new KS for Armada, again for a cash injection, and then went bust. There have been a few companies in recent years running Multiple KS and using £$£$ from the new one to pay for the overspend on the older one. With all the late and multiple KS from SPM, I’m beginning to wonder. I’ve said if they launch another KS this year, I’ll be looking go get a refund on my SDE and RK.
TL;DR
*Supposedly Ninja Division ran a majority of this project for the parts that count.
*Palladium expected to FUND WAVE 2 with profit from RETAIL wave 1.
*Wave 2 will never exist, Exchange credit for Wave 1 material.
*Backers have to pay shipping to get product.
Relevant parts to Ninja Divison/SodaPopMiniatures:
So, we decided to contract with another company with a good reputation and experience in all the areas where we lacked direct experience ourselves. We considered a few companies, and decided upon Ninja Division/Soda Pop Miniatures. We liked what they had to say, they were knowledgeable, enthusiastic and confident, had been working with Cool Mini or Not, Games Workshop and other top-flight companies, and had been involved in 8 or 9 successful Kickstarters. Plus, they had a hit game of their own, Super Dungeon Explore, as well as having been involved with the creation of other games. When we inquired about the company, industry people spoke very highly of them and the products they had worked on.
Ninja Division was brought on to do the heavy lifting: Build and run the Kickstarter, select the manufacturer/broker in China, choose the manufacturing process, choose the type of plastic, provide Palladium with the cost estimates, handle logistics and deal with all the ins and outs and many, many nuisances of manufacturing in China. Ninja Division was also to create the game and hire talented sculptors and artists to create the 3D sculpts, cards, design elements, packaging, and essentially create the game and the Kickstarter from the ground up, or as they liked to say in those early days, “handle 90% of everything.”
Also another tidbit
In theory, by making and releasing the Wave One products to the retail market, we could sell enough of them to produce Wave Two rewards. Even if Palladium saw little or no initial profit from it, we figured we would make up for it with later sales as the game line grew and found its place in the market. Not ideal, but it seemed like our best choice at the time.
After getting free work from Paulson and completely screwing him over, Palladium decides to lay the blame of their failed project on Ninja Division as well. Ninja Division recently got out of their abusive relationship with CMON, no need for Palladium to kick a recovering horse.
I think Ninja Division has already over a year now accused them of been in a state that they will never be able to deliver because they decided to do it their own way instead of allowing them to handle it like they should.
wasn't there at leas one "heated argument" between Ninja Division higher stuff and Palladium on the robotech updates?
* Forgotten King was delivered about 4 months late, and complete.
* Ninja All Stars was due Dec 2015, delivered a month late, and complete.
The rest of SDE/ND's KS efforts have not gone nearly as well:
* Tentacle Bento (under original "SDE") was suspended for being rapey...
* Relic Knights (under CMoN) was 1 full year late.
* RRT (under Palladium) was 1 full year late for Wave 1, not a lick of progress on Wave 2 in the 2+ years since Wave 1 delivered.
* Rail Raiders was due Oct 2016, and they only started non-US fulfillment this month, 15 months late.
* SDE Legends was due Dec 2016, currently running 14 months late, with no delivery in sight.
* Starfinder (licensed from Paizo) miniatures will be late, but they're not admitting it in the Pledge Manager.
I can't speak to WotF or RK2, as they didn't interest me at all.
WotF delivered wave 1 (the game). They're currently showing off progress on wave 2 (the resin minis used to replace the card standees).
Relic Knights 2 doesn't look like it is in trouble. I'm expecting some delays on it, because I just always expect some delays, but so far nothing seems like a big deal.
As for the others- when is Starfinder supposed to deliver? Because those minis are all resin- the timetables aren't the same as they are for Chinese manufacturing.
Rail Raiders has now completely delivered. The worst of it was simply the ROW delay- it is always worse waiting when someone else already got their stuff. But now that I have my stuff, I don't care that it was late.
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JohnHwangDD wrote: ND should respond to what PB is saying about them, either to confirm or deny.
I don't know that they need to. I mean, Palladium isn't really saying anything substantial about ND.
In other Palladium excuse posts, he claimed that he thought ND was supposed to do more than they did (for example, they told him that he shouldn't ignore his backers so much).
From what I can tell, he wouldn't listen to ND, so they fulfilled their legal obligations and got out of there.
JohnHwangDD wrote: ND should respond to what PB is saying about them, either to confirm or deny.
Nah. Nothing will be gained for them by wading back into the Palladium swamp again. Besides, as you've pointed out, they've gak their own bed several times and have yet to fully clean the sheets. It's better that they concentrate on their wholly owned mess.
Each Tusk Raider must strike out on their own to harness their mount, and most simply never return. Those who succeed gain a powerful ally to combat the Dark Counsul But the walrus is only loyal to its rider, and may turn on others who come too close!
This new resin, multi-part model is a must-have to anyone's Super Dungeon collection! This raider is sure to dominate any field upon which he enters, bellowing his war cry as his massive mount does the same! Their noise will echo through the dungeons and their presence will fill any board or display case!
The Tusk Raider has arrived!
oh and the Twilight Knight crossover with Kingdom Death is back in store too
JohnHwangDD wrote: ND should respond to what PB is saying about them, either to confirm or deny.
Nah. Nothing will be gained for them by wading back into the Palladium swamp again. Besides, as you've pointed out, they've gak their own bed several times and have yet to fully clean the sheets. It's better that they concentrate on their wholly owned mess.
Actually, they'd learn a lot about how backers react when you pull the rug out from under them. Mark my words, a year from now, if SPM pulls the plug, it'll be the same kind of vitriol
. It all seems to have started to go wrong with the split from CMON I think they thought they could emulate what CMON were doing and become publishing house with a load of games the problem is they haven't the know how or resource to do it.
