So, since our codex has arrived early due to GW's very own Mek technology shooting the codex into close combat, it's finally time to have a look at what changed for us orks from 6th edition:
7th Edition:
Spoiler:
1) Shooting
- (Combi-)Skorchas no longer shoot at the same time as burnaz, potentially leaving either out of range to hurt anything.
- Focus fire is gone. Putting half your mob in cover is no longer a disadvantage.
- Artillery can move and shoot.
2) Assault
- You can now charge vehicles and monstrous creatures you can't hurt
- You can move through space smaller than your base while charging - Charging through difficult terrain is -2"
- 'urty syringe only gives a reroll if your strength is higher than target
3) Characters
- When a character overkills is opponent in a challenge, the excess wounds are allocated to the unit. No more sergeants taking one for the team
- When the unit has no one left to fight, they will pile in the challenge and can allocate wounds to the challenge. No more characters stalling a mob of boyz for one turn by challenging the nob
- Any character can be your warlord
- New warlord tables, some pretty useful for orks
4) Vehicles
- Rams no longer take distance traveled into account, but gain +1S from reinforced ram's +2AV
- Vehicle explosions are S4 for everyone, inside and outside
- Can't explode vehicles without AP2/1 unless open topped
- Passengers of open-topped vehicles now suffer hits from template weapons
- Deff dreads and Killa Kanz got Hammer of Wrath
5) List-building
- Can take any number of detachments with at least 1 HQ and two troops
- Lost Tau, Necrons, and Imperial Guard as allies of convenience
- Can now ally "come the apocalypse" factions
Codex: Orks: faction-wide special rules
Spoiler:
- Kept Furious charge
- Need Warboss to call Waaagh!
- Waaagh! goes back to allowing running and charging during the same turn
- Waaagh! is now called before rolling for reserves
- Got 'ere we go, which allows to reroll one charge dice. All orks have 'ere we go
- Mob rule changed: On a failed moral or pinning test roll D6 instead:
1 Born to Fight: If in combat, pass, otherwise fail
2-3 Breaking Heads: If character in unit, pass and take d6 S4 hits, otherwise fail. Wounds cannot be allocated to ork characters (wounds disappear if only characters are left)
4-6 Squabble: If 10 or more orks in unit, pass and take d6 S4 hits, otherwise fail
- Orks can choose to use an Ork Warband Detachment with 3 HQ 9 Troops 3 FA 3 Elite 3 HS 1 LoW 1 Fortification instead of the normal one. If they do 1 HQ and 3 Troops are mandatory. Units of 10 or more models that roll 10" or more on the charge have Hammer of Wrath. No objective secured.
- Formation requiring exactly 6 Boyz mobs, 1 unit of Nobz, 1 unit of Gretchin, 1 mek and a Warboss allows for unlimited Waaaghs! Has Hammer of Wrath rule above as well
Ork psychic powers
Spoiler:
Primaris: Frazzle, 24" S6 AP3 blast witchfire (1 WC)
1: 'ead banger, 24" focused witchfire, causes wound on failed T test with no cover or armor saves allowed (1 WC)
2: Warpath, same as before (1 WC)
3: Da jump, same as previous 'ere we go. When you roll doubles for scatter, entire unit must snap-fire (1 WC)
4: Kill bolt, 18" S10 AP 2 beam (2 WC)
5: Power Vomit: S7 AP2 template (2 WC)
6: Da Krunch: S2D6 AP4 Large Blast, Barrage, if you roll a over 10 you get another one until you roll 10 or under, or everything is dead. (2 WC)
Ork warlord trait[I]
Spoiler:
1 Prophet of the Waaagh!: The Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule. If the Warlord already has the Waaagh! special rule then, in addition to the usual effects, all friendly models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule gain the Fearless special rule when he calls a Waaagh!, until the start of their next turn.
2 Bellowing Tyrant: The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12″ of him, re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests.
3 Like a Thunderbolt!: The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12″ of him, can re-roll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range.
4 Brutal but Kunnin’: The Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn.
5 Kunnin’ but Brutal: The Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn.
6 Might is Right: The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile.
[i]Additional Malstrom Missions
Spoiler:
If your Warlord has the Orks Faction, these Tactical Objectives replace the Capture & Control Tactical Objectives (numbers 11-16) described in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules.
- Shoot an enemy unit off the board,
- Kill the an enemy in a challenge with your warlord (d3 VP if you kill the enemy warlord)
- Destroy an enemy unit in your assault phase (more units gone, more points)
- Three units must turbo boost, move flat out, ram or run 6" or more (6" only for running, any distance for athers).
- Secure a random objective (roll a D6 when drawing the card),
- Charge more than 10 inches.
HQ
Spoiler:
- Warboss no longer makes Nobz troops
- Warboss now calls the Waaagh!
- Big Mek no longer makes Deff Dreads troops
- Big Mek can now take MA and KFF or MA and Tellyporta-Blasta (short range S8 Ap2 blast, instant death/auto pen on sixes)
- Big Mek can now take Bike and KFF or Bike and SAG - Big Mek may take a killsaw
- Big Mek gets a KMB instead of a TL shoota when switching to MA - Weirdboy and Warphead upgrade dropped in price
- Weirdboy no longer randomly cast powers
- Weirdboy may generate powers from Sanctic Demonology, Malific Demonology and Power of the Waaagh!.
- Weirdboy has force staff (+2S AP4)
- Weirdboy generate an extra warp charge if at least 10 orks nearby. When he does and fails to manifest a power he takes a S2 hit, no saves allowed
- Mad Doc Grotznik gives Fearless, Rampage and FNP - New! Able to field a regular mek for every HQ chosen, takes no slot. May join infantry or artillery units. Meks can still be taken as part of Burna/Loota units
- Meks can take Kill Saw, KMB, Kustom Mega Slugga, Rokkit, Kombi weapons and grot oilers
- Mek tools fix vehicles on a 5+ but no longer shake vehicles
- New! Able to field a painboy as HQ - Pain boy can take boss pole, warbike, grot orderly and attack squig
- New! Badrukk is now a HQ choice, small drop in points
- Badrukk has the Kunnin’ but Brutal Warlord trait
- New! Zagstruk is now a HQ choice
- Zagstruk has the Bellowing Tyrant Warlord trait
- Zagstruk causes S8 AP2 Hammer of Wrath attacks
- Zagstruk no longer allows his unit to assault after deep strike
- Zagstruk no longer executes his unit
- Wazzdakka is gone. Fluff claims he has left with his own Waaagh! of bikers.
- Ol' Zogwort is gone. Fluff claims he has left with his own Waaagh! of mad- and weirdboyz.
Elite
Spoiler:
- Mega-Armoured Nobz have the option to take a pair of killsaws (Powerklaw with armour bane)
- Mega-Armoured Nobz may take boss poles.
- Mega-Armoured Nobz are bulky
- Nobz slightly cheaper, bike upgrade more expensive, so biker nobz are the same as before
- Nobz can buy 'eavy armor for less points
- Nobz lost the ability to purchase painboyz or cybork
- All units (including nobz) are now lead by a boss nobz, same stats but character
- Tank bustaz got a small price drop
- Tank bustaz are no longer limited in their target choices. Instead, Glory Hogs gives an additional VP if they score first blood by killing a vehicle
- Tank bustaz' tank hammers are S8 AP3 unwieldy but costs 15 points now
- Tank bustaz' bomb squigs are now AP4 and no longer hit own vehicles
- Tankbusta bombs have become Meltabombs.
- Tank bustaz may take Trukks as dedicated transports
- Tank bustaz get the tankhunter special rule
- Tank busta nob can no longer take tank hammers, and gets no discount on his klaw. He doesn't trade it for the rokkit anymore though.
- Tank busta nob cannot upgrade to klaw or big choppa anymore, because he is missing a close combat weapon to trade (not intended?)
- Burna boyz are slightly more expensive
- Burna boyz may take Trukks as dedicated transports
- Meks from Burna units get a discount on their killsaw
- Kommandoz gained Stealth
- Kommandoz can have Nob and Snikrot
- Snikrot can be fielded solo, or joined to a unit of Kommandoz
- Snikrot's has fear, can still arrive from any board edge, his shroud replaces stealth
- Snikrot does not take up a force organisation slot if you have any Kommandoz at all (does not need to join them).
- Snikrot and his unit gain the Shrouded USR on the turn he arrives or is deployed, but it replaces their stealth.
- All Elite choices have stikkbombs
Troops
Spoiler:
- Nobz leading boyz may take combi-shootaz
- Boy Nobz leading boyz can only get 'eavy armor if entire mob is upgraded
- Boy Nobz cannot gain one of the special weapons, but may buy combi-shootaz
- Slugga boyz have gained stikk bombs for free
- Shoota boyz have gained stikk bombs and have increase by one point per model
- No limit on units you can upgrade to 'ard boyz
- Boyz get rokkit for 5 points less
- Gretchin dropped in points, but need to buy squighound (totals to old price)
- Grot pod may now choose to make one attack at double strength
- Squighound causes d6 S3 hits on the gretchin rather than outright eating thems
Fast Attack
Spoiler:
- Dakkajets, Burna bommers and Blitza bommers only fire one additional shot with their assault guns during a Waaagh!
- Bitza bommers bombs are now S7 AP2 large blast, armorbane
- Blitza bommers shoot rear armor on their 10-12 result when dropping a bomb
- Deff koptaz 5 points cheaper
- Deff koptaz no longer need to pay points for their ranged weapon upgrades
- Storm boyz have dropped in price
- Storm boyz can now be fielded in units of 30
- Storm boyz can now use their jump packs to run 2d6 in addition to moving 12". If they do, they take dangerous terrain tests.
- Storm boyz can benefit from the Waaagh!
- Warbikers got a massive price drop to 18 per bike
- Warbikers can be fielded in units of 15
- Warbikers no longer get 4+ cover. Instead, they gain +1 cover while turbo-boosting
- Buggies 5 points cheaper
- Buggies can be taken in units of 5
- Buggies can gaine the Outflank USR - New! Trukk can be chosen as fast attack choice
- Trukk dropped in price
- Trukk upgrade to Rokkit now free
- Trukk rule "Ramshackle" downgrades penetrating hits to glancing hits on a 6+
- No more size limit on units to buy trukk
Heavy Support
Spoiler:
- Killa Kanz have gone up in price per model, but weapon upgrades are cheaper. Kan with rokkits is the same as before, kan with grotzooka is 5 points more than that.
- Killa Kanz can now have up to 6 walkers per unit
- Killa Kanz must roll a d6 after losing more than 25% of their unit. If they roll 1 or 2, the entire unit is shaken. Panic roll is increased by +1 for every 3 kanz or 1 deff dread nearby.
- Killa Kanz get Grot Riggers for 5 points per model
- Killa Kanz get a Kan Klaw instead of a DCCW, being +2S AP2.
- Deff Dread and its options have become a little cheaper (100 points for all-klaw dread)
- Deff Dreads now use power klaws instead of DCCW (no functional change)
- Deff Dreads now get an additional attack from their first pair of PKs - Deff Dreads get Grot Riggers for 10 points
- Zzap gunz now roll a d6 on strength 11 and 12. On a 1-3 it Get's Hot!
- Battlewagon has gone up in price
- Battlewagon can upgrade to killkannon for half the old price
- Battlewagons can get grot riggers for 10 points
- Flash Gits had a small price drop
- Flash Gits' snazz guns trippled their shots
- Flash Gits no longer have any upgrades but ammo runts
- Flash Gits may take battlewagons as dedicated transports
- Flash Gits now have Boss Poles instead of 'eavy armor
- Flash Gits are lead by a Kaptin, same stats but character
- New! Lootaz now in heavy support
- Lootaz got a small price drop
- Lootaz may have a trukk as dedicated transport
- New! Gorkanaut AV13/13/12 Walker
- Gorkanaut has a S6 AP4 Assault 3d6 weapon, two rokkits, skorcha and two TL big shootas
- Gorkanaut has rampage
- New! Morkanaut AV13/13/12 Walker
- Morkanaut has a S8 AP2 small blast weapon, two rokkits, a KMB and two TL big shootas
- Morkanaut can take a KFF - Both walkers have a Klaw of Gork (or Mork), which is S10 AP1 concussive
- Both walkers can take Gort Riggers for 20 points
- New! Mek Gunz combine old big gunz entry and four new artillery guns
- Mek Gunz may have up to five gunz per battery each with up to four gretchin
- Mek Gunz cannot take runtherds
- Kannon, Lobba and Zzap gun got price drops
- Bubblechukka is large blast and rolls one d6 for both strength and AP - Smasha gun is S4+d6 AP1
- Kustom Mega-Kannon is S8 AP2 small blast, Get's Hot!
- Traktor-Kannon is S8 AP3 Skyfire and automatically immobilizes fliers when at least glancing them. FMC get -3 to their grounding check.
- Zzap gun got Get's hot! and has a 50% chance of getting hot again when strength is above 10. Still shakes on glances and pens.
- Each Mek Gun determines their random rolls by itself. So five zzap guns, 5x 2d6 for strength
- Looted wagon has been removed from the codex, readded by White Dwarf
- Looted wagons had a massive price drop
- Looted wagons' "Don't press dat." is now rolled in the shooting phase and forces you to move flat out. No longer prevents disembarking.
- Looted wagon can no longer take boom gunz, option for killkannon instead
Lords of War
Spoiler:
- Ghazghkull Thrakka is now a Lord of War
- Can take attack squig and ammo runts.
- Lost +2 attacks on the charge from Adamantium Skull, gets Eternal Warrior and Cybork instead
- Thrakka no longer give 6" runs on his Waaagh!
- Instead, MA models in his unit (including him) may run during that turn
- Give flat 2+ invul until next turn
- Can no longer call the Waaagh! at any time
- Stompa is in the codex
- Stompa can take Grot Riggers and extra Supa-Rokkits
Wargear
Spoiler:
- KFF is now a 5++ save against shooting for models within 6" (not units!). While embarked, only the transport gets the save, no extending bubble, no protection from flamers or explosions for the passenger
- SAG only kills the Mek now, no one else
- SAG is Vortex, which causes the large blast to become destroyer and to jump every shooting phase until you roll double.
- Big Choppa is AP5
- Cybork is 6+ FNP now, no invul, doesn't stack with painboyz
- Git Findas give +1 BS when model remained stationary. Available to all HQs - Attack Squig gives one reroll to hit per combat
- Boss pole: Each time a unit that includes at least one model with a Bosspole rolls on the Mob Rule table, you may choose to re-roll any result other than a Breaking Heads(2-3) result. You must accept the result of the re-roll
- Waaagh! Banner went up in price, still nobz only
- New! Kustom Mega Sluggas for Meks: S8 AP2 Get's Hot! Pistol
Vehicle Upgrades
Spoiler:
- Red Paint now only increases Flat Out moves
- Deff Rollas are d3 S10 AP4 hits only when DoG is faile now. Also increases front armor by 2 while ramming. Dropped price by half.
- Wrecking ball is 3" S9 AP4 Assault D3 now
- Grot Riggers provide the IWNDUSR to vehicles
- Boarding planks add +2" to charge when charging from an open-topped vehicle
- Grabbin Klaw can no longer grab skimmers
Relics
Spoiler:
- Ded shiny shoota is a 6 shots twin-linked shoota, rolls of 1 hit one of your own units within 6", can't hit own unit or self.
- Warboss Gazbag’s Blitzbike has a twin-linked S6 AP3 Assault 3 gun on it and can turbo-boost 18"
- Hedwompas choppa is a +2 str, AP5, rending choppa that beheads on a roll of 6 (insta death).
- Da Finkin Kap gives your warlord an additional trait from the strategic list in the BRB.
- Lucky Stixx is a Waaagh! banner for +1 WS. In addition the user can choose to reroll any failed to hit, to wound or saving throws they make. If they fail 3 of these rerolls in a single turn they are removed as a casualty.
- Da Fixer Upperz: Mek tools that succeed to repair on a 3+, big mek only. Says meks can use it, but meks can't get relics
- Relics are unique per army, every character can take only one relic
Supplement: Waaagh! Ghazghkull Special rules
Spoiler:
- Biggest an’ da best: Warlord must always issue and accept challenges, if your warlord kills a character in challenge, he rerolls to wound for the rest of the game.
- Da boss is watchin’: +2 to mob rule result, but causes d3+3 rather than d6 hits. This means that units of 10 or more punch each other on a 2+, a 1 requires a character to pass.
- Detachments and formations from this supplement cannot take relics from the codex.
- Can have a Great Waaagh! Detachment, which consists of 2 HQ 8 Troops 5 Elite 3 FA 3 HS 1 LoW and 1 Fortification, 1HQ 2 Troops 1 Elite are mandatory. For every unit, you roll a d6, on a 6+ the unit may deep strike. Troops get +1 to this roll.
Warlord Traits
Spoiler:
1. Supa-Shootist: Warlord has BS 3
2. Waaagh! Mongerer: Warlord's unit has crusader
3. Madboy: Warlord has the Rage USR 4. Kunnin' Plan: Warlord and his unit gain outflank
5. Kalling in a Favour: One of the warlord's weapons becomes master-crafted. Can't be a relic.
6. Dead 'ard: Warlord gains FNP
Relics
Spoiler:
- Choppa of da Ragnarork: Big choppa that gets a stackable +1S -1AP bonus for the rest of the game if it caused at least one casualty during an assault phase.
- Big Bosspole: Fearless
- Da Supa-Cybork:FNP, EW, Relentless
- Da Killa-Klaw:PK, can chose to trade all attacks for 1 Attack with the instant death special rule
- Mega Force Field: 4++ KFF - Killa-Dakka: Random weapon, decide before game. Can be Deff Gun, Skorcha, Supa-Shoota, Zzap Gun, Grotzooka or Bubblechucka
Formations
Spoiler:
1) Council of Waaagh!
- Requires: Ghazghkull Thrakka, Mad Dok Grotznik, 1 Big Mek, 2 Warbosses, 1 unit of nobz with a Waaagh! Banner
- Boss Mob: All models in unit must deploy together, ICs cannot join or leave the unit
- Banner of da Great Waaagh!: As long as Waaagh banner is still alive all models in unit are fearless! and have +1 WS, friendly Ork models within 12" reroll failed morale and pinning checks
- Ghazghkull’s Leftenuntz: Both Ork warbosses have +1WS
- You get two additional rolls on the Waaagh Ghazghull warlord traits (reroll duplicates) and apply both to Ghazghkull Thrakka on top of his Prophet of the Waaagh!
- Get Biggest an’ da Best and Da Boss iz Watchin’, so if you lose both the Waaagh! banner and Grotznik, you will not be able to pass mob rule tests unless you roll a .
- While questionable, nothing prevents you from not picking Thrakka as a warlord
- Formation costs at least 614 points
2) Ghazghkull's Bullyboyz
- Requires: 3x 5 model MegaNob
- All models gain +1 WS, Fear, Fearless.
3) Da Vulcha Boyz.
- Requires: Boss Zagstrukk and 3 units of stormboyz
- Dead on Target… ish: All units must start in reserves and must arrive via deepstrike, but scatter only d6 - ’Ard ’Itterz: All hammer of wrath attacks of Zagstrukk's unit gain shred as long as he lives. Other units don't.
- Vulcha Skwad: May form all units into one big mob. if you do, Zagstrukk cannot leave the unit. Counts as 3 units for VP purposes when destroyed.
- Get Biggest an’ da Best and Da Boss iz Watchin’, so there is little reason to buy boss poles. If Zagstrukk is your warlord, he must fight challenges.
4) Blitz Brigade
- Requires: 5 Battlewagons, all Battlewagons must have rams or deff rollas
- All battlewagons gain scout
- Know Yer Limitz:: Embarked units cannot charge during the first turn if the battlewagon used scout.
5) Dread Mob
- Requires: 1 Big Mek, 1 Painboy, 2 Gorka or Morkanauts (any combination), 3 Deff Dreds, 3 units of exactly 3 Killa Kanz
- Wall of Steel: All models gains hammer of wrath that inflicts d3 wounds
- All models from the formation have 'ere we go, enabling walker to reroll one charge die and benefit from a Waaagh! if it's called by a warboss/Thrakka from another detachment.
6) Boss Snikrot's Red Skull Kommandos
- Requires: Snikrot and 4 units of kommandos
- All units have the stealth rule replaced with shroud until the turn after they arrive
- Snikrott must join one unit
- Al units must be put into reserve, but you only make one roll for reserves for all units in formation
- All units in formation enter from the same board edge, controlling player determines table edge
- On the turn they arrive, if a unit doesn't shoot, it may reroll failed cover saves
- Get Biggest an’ da Best and Da Boss iz Watchin.
7) Green Tide
- Requires: 1 Warboss and 10 Units of boyz
- No transport can be taken and warboss cannot take warbike
- If the Green Tide ever rolls a "Breaking Heads" or "Squabble" result on the Mob Rule table, any resulting hits are allocated by the Formation's controlling player.
- Models in the Green Tide gain Hammer of Wrath in any Assault phase in which they successfully charge an enemy unit and the dice rolled for their charge range is 10 or more before modifiers. Note that the unit does not need to move the full distance rolled to gain this effect.
- If the Warboss for this formation is your Warlord, can use the Waagh! special rule each and every turn after the first.
- Warboss and the ten boyz mobz must form a single unit
- Get Biggest an’ da Best and Da Boss iz Watchin
- This unit, like all others from the supplement, cannot take relics from the ork codex
Sanctus Reach: The Red Waaagh! Formations
Spoiler:
1) Mogrok's Bossboyz
- Requires: 3 Big Meks, 1 Warboss, 1 Lvl 2 Weirdboy
- Big Mek Mogrok: The controlling player must nominate one Big Mek in this formation to be his Warlord (Mogrok). Mogrok
always has the Kunnin’ But Brutal Warlord Trait.
- Very Kunnin’: Before deployment, the controlling player can nominate up to D3 friendly Ork units; these units gain the Acute
Senses and Outflank special rules. The controlling player also adds +1 to any attempts to Seize the Initiative.
2) Gorkanaut Krushin' Krew
- Requires: 3 Gorkanauts
- Escalating Rivalry: At the start of each game turn, look up the current game turn number on the following table. All models in
this Formation gain the special rules listed on the table. 1- Nothing, 2- Furious Charge, 3- Furious Charge & Hatred, 4+ Furious Charge, Hatred & Shred.
Sanctus Reach: Stormclaw Dataslate
Spoiler:
Grukk Facerippa - Warboss with 'eavy armor, kombi-rokkit, PK, attack squig and boss pole
- Always has the Bellowing Tyrant warlord trait
- For 16 additional points he gets 5+ FNP and Shred on his PK.
Formations
Spoiler:
1) Skark's Skull-Nobz
- Requires: Skrak (unique boss nob) and 4 Nobz with specific wargear, no options
- All models have 'eavy armor
- Skrak has Slugga/Choppa and boss pole
- Nob load outs: Slugga/Choppa, Slugga/Combi-Skorcha and Ammo Runt, 2x Slugga/PK and boss pole
- For 2 points you get Hammer of Wrath on Skrak only
2) Rustgob's Runts
- Requires: Rustgob (unique runtherd) and 10 gretchin
- Rustgob has a squighound, no further options
- For 5 additional points you get... nothing! Wait, wat?
3) Krumpa's Killa Kanz
- Requires: Krumpa (unique Killa Kan character), 2 Killa Kanz
- Krumpa has a grotzooka and counts as Deff Dread for Cowardly Grots! tests
- One kan is equipped with big shoota, the other has a rokkit
- Krumpa pays 5 points for his character status and counting as deff dread
4) Grukk's Rippin' Krew
- Requires: All of the above formations and Grukk
- What Grukk Says Goes: Reroll all pinning, moral, fear and Cowardly Grots! tests while Grukk is alive
- Tellyport Attack: All units have deep strike. If you reserve the entire formation, they arrive on turn 1.
Sanctus Reach: Hour of the Wolf Formations
Spoiler:
1) Kaptin Bradukk's Flash Gits
- Requires: 2 Units of 10 Flash Gits, Kaptin Badrukk
- Kaptin Bradukk's Flash Gits: May be joined into one unit, worth 3 VP then.
- Kustomized: Snazzguns become master-crafted
2) Grukk's Goff Killmob
- Requires: Grukk, Skrak's Skull-Nobz, 3 Units of at least 20+ Slugga Boyz (no weapon upgrades of any kind), Gorkanaut, 2 Deff Dreads, 1 Unit of 3+ Killa Kanz
- Fear
- Grukk's Killboyz: Boyz and Nobz reroll charge range
3) Skyboss Wingnutz' Air Armada
- Requires: 3 Dakkajets, 1 Burna Bommer, 1 Blitza Bommer, one Dakkajet must be a Flyboss
- Airborne Horde: Planes that leave combat airspace have all their hull points and one-shot weapons restored.
Please point out any mistakes I made and add anything I missed!
With the Waagh ability I think base 30 Boyz before upgrades with a Painboy for 230pts is going to be good. Move 6" Run D6" Assault 2d6". And 50pt FNP is like 90pts of boyz for 50pts unless its vs S8+. I think 6" Move +6" Disembark +d6" Run +2d6+2" charge out of boarding Plank Vehicles could be good.
HQ is a bit Crowded, but the Ork FOC helps with that, not having Objective Secured is going to hurt, but how many OS units will be able to hand around a unit of Boyz anyway.
I can't wait to actually have the codex in hand, but it appear to be fairly well internally balanced and outside of a few gripes ie Mob Rule, no HQFOC Modification, Ghaz as LOW, etc I think its going to be a good book and gives us a taste of things to come for 7th, LOW in the Codex.
In our meta we have for the longest time gone shooty with counter assault elements. Maelstrom is still new tho my mobile marines managed to loose to a more static necron army recently.
I'd like to see FA and Troops get a more important role for orks. Stormboyz zooming forward, warbikers moving and mowing down enemies with their dakka gunz. Trukkerz and grots grapping objectives. Mek gunz providing firepower support. Right now I wonder if biker KFF mek and biker painboy is worth it for protection for the spearhead, pointwise.
I play 1500 points mostly. If possible I'd love to use the ork formation and a CAD for HQ, FA and HS ad libitum. Grots are so nice once in a while.
So, allegedly, we call the waaagh! And can run and assault? Also, if we take a grot screen, a unit of nobz, and six units of boyz with a warboss we can call the waaagh every turn?
Zagman wrote: Move 6" Run D6" Assault 2d6". And 50pt FNP is like 90pts of boyz for 50pts unless its vs S8+. I think 6" Move +6" Disembark +d6" Run +2d6+2" charge out of boarding Plank Vehicles could be good.
I think this could be a slight return of the BW rush that I enjoyed in 5th.
Also curious how the Ork detachment with a bunch of Dakkajets would work. Extra shots per turn, is extra shots per turn.
Billagio wrote: Deff Rollas a d3 S10 AP4 hits now. Also increases front armor by 2. Dropped price by half.
Can I have armor 16 BWs pls
wow really? increase front armour by 2? I hope that's true... is there a max on AV? I mean you can't take a BW to AV16, right?
I think the max is 14, would be sweet if it can go higher.
EDIT: Although in the rulebook it just says "Armour Values typically range from 10 to 14, depending
on which side of the vehicle is being attacked". Does not explicitly say it cant go above 14. Guess we will have to wait and see
Billagio wrote: Deff Rollas a d3 S10 AP4 hits now. Also increases front armor by 2. Dropped price by half.
Can I have armor 16 BWs pls
wow really? increase front armour by 2? I hope that's true... is there a max on AV? I mean you can't take a BW to AV16, right?
Well, there is an AV15 building legal.
That increase would for rams only though. I'll clarify it in the OP.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I really like the additional mek rule though. You can dump hidden killsaws in your boyz mobs that way, and unlike marines the Mek is still two attacks base, making it a lot less sucky than those hidden marine fists.
This book is not proof that GW took a giant gak when creating the Tyranid Codex. Im truly happy for you ork players. Looks like an amazing codex to play.
Let's brainstorm unit synergies because, so far, this codex looks like the codex of a bunch of Ork Boyz running in front of a bunch of Kustom Mega-Kannons, and that seems boring.
I have been trying to make the new walker wall with 3 'Nauts (at least one of which is a Morkanaut, for the KFF), 3 30-strong units of Ork Boyz, and 3 Painboys.
The Painboys give the Ork Boyz FNP, the 'Nauts in front give the Ork Boyz cover, and the KFF gives everything an invulnerable save. I can't figure out what I can use to replace Lootas in this list, though - or, at 2,000 points, if I would even have enough points for anything else!
Gray1378 wrote: This book is not proof that GW took a giant gak when creating the Tyranid Codex. Im truly happy for you ork players. Looks like an amazing codex to play.
I play both Nids and Orks. This book is probably on the same level as the Nid book. That is, a sidegrade at best with a bunch of WTFF things like Orks no longer getting Invulnerable saves in CC at all.
I feel like with the new waaagh, ere we go, boarding planks and the shoota boy increase its probably best to go mech with slugga boys and leave the shooting to the looted wagons, big gunz, gits and lootas.
Anything not mentioned in the orginginal post remained unchanged, so Doc Tools still give 5+ FNP.
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streamdragon wrote:
Gray1378 wrote: This book is not proof that GW took a giant gak when creating the Tyranid Codex. Im truly happy for you ork players. Looks like an amazing codex to play.
I play both Nids and Orks. This book is probably on the same level as the Nid book. That is, a sidegrade at best with a bunch of WTFF things like Orks no longer getting Invulnerable saves in CC at all.
This thread is supposed to be about playing with the new codex and edition. Please keep it free of complaints, the other threads already full enough of that.
Billagio wrote:I feel like with the new waaagh, ere we go, boarding planks and the shoota boy increase its probably best to go mech with slugga boys and leave the shooting to the looted wagons, big gunz, gits and lootas.
I doubt that the price increase for shootaz will ruin them. For a battlewagon unit, you'll be paying 140 instead of 120 points, and supposedly the nob upgrade got a price drop, so the total increase is a little less.
With the drop in cost of fast units, pretty sure biker armies can be very viable. (though you still need 3 troops)
Imagine. For ~300 pts you got 15 bikers ( with pk nob), Their jobs will be to go and grabs objectives.
If the objectif is far away or unclaimed : I turboboost there ( T5 3+ cover 4+ Armor and maybe more with a KFF mek biker or a painboss -can it go on bike? )
If it is claimed by opponent: well... 45 Twinlinked dakkagun, followed by waaggh & assault should do.
How are people feeling about the Looted Wagon? It comes in at AV11 with transport capacity and a gun (including option for skorcha) at a price roughly equivalent to a trukk w/ boarding plank. It takes up a Heavy Support slot, but in the era of multi-FOCs, and with the price increase of Battlewagons, does anyone think they have a place amidst a fast AV10/11 mechanised army? It's slower than a trukk, but if you can force target division by say, putting boyz with a character in the wagon and MANz missile in a trukk nearby, it might make it close enough to dump a unit onto something and cover it with templates or big shoota fire. It also gets a (very) cheap deffrolla upgrade.
I'm really interested to know if anyone thinks they're worth it at a cost slightly above a trukk, compared to one.
Gratlugg wrote: How are people feeling about the Looted Wagon? It comes in at AV11 with transport capacity and a gun (including option for skorcha) at a price roughly equivalent to a trukk w/ boarding plank. It takes up a Heavy Support slot, but in the era of multi-FOCs, and with the price increase of Battlewagons, does anyone think they have a place amidst a fast AV10/11 mechanised army? It's slower than a trukk, but if you can force target division by say, putting boyz with a character in the wagon and MANz missile in a trukk nearby, it might make it close enough to dump a unit onto something and cover it with templates or big shoota fire. It also gets a (very) cheap deffrolla upgrade.
I'm really interested to know if anyone thinks they're worth it at a cost slightly above a trukk, compared to one.
Well, it's cheap enough to actually work like a rhino. It's a little harder to kill than your trukk, and the skorcha is a nice add-on. I wouldn't go for more weapons or the killkannon simply because it dies too easily (rhinos are infamous enablers for first blood) and most of those will be snap-fired anyways (or not at all when you roll "Don't press dat"). It might work well with bikes and storm boy armies, since it has the same movement distance, unlike the trukk which blast away 24" a turn while bikes might want to use their dakkaguns and storm boyz only get that far with luck.
So, it's no longer a strict downgrade from a battlewagon, but still a niche unit.
I am definitely considering biting the bullet and investing in 'ard Boyz for trukks. With the morale change, trukks being even more of a death trap for our troops, and orks remaining as vulnerable to shooting (and high initiative in assault) as ever, it might be worth it to sacrifice points somewhere in return for a 4+ armor save.
I'm not sure if that or dedicating more points to babysitting HQs (like painboys) is the way to go, though.
I feel like the new codex is trying to push Ork Boyz back into an assault role. 'Ere We Go, the changes to Waaagh!, the changes to Boarding Planks, the increase in points for Shootas... Didn't I also read somewhere that Mob Rule doesn't effect Ork Boyz in close combat?
Does anybody else get the feeling, to maximize the options for our Ork Boyz, we should be building our lists in that direction?
What we've seen of the new codex doesn't seem to imply that we should necessarily be shooting or assaulting primarily. To me, it just looks like they have ruined the Ork Boy being the be all, end all cornerstone unit of the army. Maybe we're meant to pull from the rest of the codex and tailor our lists to more specific strategies now.
Zog Off wrote: I feel like the new codex is trying to push Ork Boyz back into an assault role. 'Ere We Go, the changes to Waaagh!, the changes to Boarding Planks, the increase in points for Shootas... Didn't I also read somewhere that Mob Rule doesn't effect Ork Boyz in close combat?
Does anybody else get the feeling, to maximize the options for our Ork Boyz, we should be building our lists in that direction?
As long as orks number at least 10 and have a character, they can't fail moral checks in close combat. Outside of combat, a mob rule roll of 1 makes them fall back.
I'm really dissapointed in the codex but not because i think it's bad, it's just units i collected for 3 years are nerfed and I don't have almost anything that was buffed . But I wanted to ask how would you kit out your foot warboss now ? And can a relic chopa really see play because I'm so tempted to make savage orc warboss in to 40 k warboss with that pose agh )))
I'm honestly having a hard time deciding if the T6 from a bike is better or worse than the 2+ of Mega Armor. Power fists will go through either like butter, but S10 at least won't ID the T6 bike-boss.
I'm not sure the choppa relic is worth it in any build. I considered suggesting you run a warboss on bike with it, but at the end of the day, even if you strike at initiative before power fists you're unlikely to melt through enough, say, marine armor saves to quell the inevitable counterattack (or worse, be challenged into submission).
Edit: though, use of the lucky stixx to reroll your attacks with the choppa and potentially score some more instant death rending hits could work, even though now you're putting mutiple relics onto a model without access to an invulnerable save in combat.
idk, i just think the ork formation with green tide is the way to go. with some pain boys, warboss, and extra meks, backed by whatever points you can spare for lootas.
that's the direction I'm going to head in anyways!
the changes to waaagh ere we and sluggas being cheaper now, im honestly excited. are warbosses restricted to only one now?
i just can't wait to get the book so i can roll tide!
zachwho wrote: idk, i just think the ork formation with green tide is the way to go. with some pain boys, warboss, and extra meks, backed by whatever points you can spare for lootas.
that's the direction I'm going to head in anyways!
the changes to waaagh ere we and sluggas being cheaper now, im honestly excited. are warbosses restricted to only one now?
i just can't wait to get the book so i can roll tide!
Slugga boys are the same price as in the last codex, they just got stikkbommz.
If you're ever going to give your warboss a big choppa, give him 'eadwompas choppa. It's 5 points less than a PK, and still brings him up to S7, 8 on the charge. Any to wound roll of 6 will automatically outright kill anything barring invulnerable saves or EW, a roll of six to pen a vehicle will also grant another d3 armor penetration, though no AP2. Considering the amount of attacks a warboss has, that's pretty scary, no MC would want to pick a fight with him.
I'm struggling to decide on the overall composition of my list. As of now, I have a fleet of trukk boyz with support in the form of Lootas and a Blitza (or Burna) Bommer. From here I want to add MSUMANz missiles, and after that is where I'm stuck. Should I add a lot of HQs to babysit the trukk boyz? Should I drop the points for a battlewagon or two? Replace some trukks with looted wagons? Buy buggies? My understanding is that, even in the new book, if you're going with trukk boyz you need low AV saturation and -speed-.
How about taking a Strategic warlord trait and an extra one with the "finkin cap". If you got the "infiltrate 3 units" you can place a defence line in the middle of the field with 3 big ork mobs behind it. First turn move in with bikes/battle wagons etc. and get a great turn 2 assault.
Also possible to add a mega armour warboss with the "lucky stic" to stay up front to reroll those 2+ mega armour rolls.
dunno if this is all possible but I really like to see that codex..!!
I think there are some exciting possibilities for this book, and my mind keeps going back to Trukks and Bikes despite my being a Bad Moon who prefers Flash Gitz and MANZ. Strategy change is in the air as well, of course. I almost feel like charging straight ahead into the fight (the normal Ork taktik) might not be the way to go all the time.
I'm thinking 3 Battlewagons with Killkannon and 4 Rokkits Defrolla and Grots. This will be on the board, moving up slowly and laying down some nice firepower. Flash Gitz on board for some more anti infantry firepower. Right behind them a biker star: Zhadsnark, Painboy, Big Mek w/KFF, full unit of Warbikes. Between the KFF for Battlewagons and the BW blocking LoS, this could be a nice way to force your way up the board. Trukk Boyz behind the Battlewagons or on the flanks to fly out and get objectives, supported by Zhadsnark and crew to hit like a late game blitz. Add in Tankbustaz, more Warbikes or whatever else you feel you need in support...perhaps some Traktor Kannonz.
I wouldn't combine an ordnance weapon with rokkits, since most of them are going to miss. Either use big shootaz, or simply leave them at home. Either way, I've never been too impressed with the killkannon, it simply lacks punch and range.
I think it does pack some punch, although it is not gonna ID any Space Marine Captains anytime soon (nor pen any mid-high armour vehicles...). But it still does wound almost anything on a 2+, so I think it's still a good gun.
I gave them a spin during last edition, and even perfect hits were... underwhelming. Since they just dropped in price and haven't changed otherwise, it's pretty much the same now.
Does anyone see any great benefit to putting Kaptin Badrukk in a unit other than Flash Gits now? It seems that the combination of firepower and leadership should have a lot of utility, but his weapon is just a bit too specific to put him in a lot of units.
I don't think my list will change too much, I play at 1500 and usually run 2x30 squads of shoota boyz, with nobz, pk, (now they'll have BP's) and 2 warbosses with pk, cb, bp. Sprinkle in some deffkopats and warbuggies, lootas, and a nob squad and that's pretty much what I do.
The obvious things are putting the boss poles on basically anything that can take them now, removing cybork bodies from my warbosses, and so on.
I do feel strongly about painboyz though when it comes to 30 boy squads. With my gretchin squad manning the aegis defense line / quad gun, I think that qualifies for 3 HQ's?
I was thinking of doing Mad Dok Grotznik, Painboy, Warboss. Because of the way challenges work, I like having two power klaw characters in each squad so regardless one would always be able to do work., hence the two warbosses attached to my boyz in the original lists. The painboyz aren't great in melee combat, so that's why I was thinking about the Mad Dok, he still has a power klaw and would let me keep that aspect of my list in tact while he also gives the 5+ FNP. I like the idea of a big mek with a kff or a weirdboy even but with the new Waaaaaaagh! 1 Warboss seems pretty essential.
I'd also probably change from the koptas to the buggies just to not have to deal with the koptas leadership. Ideally at 1500 I think it would look something like this, with 20 points to spare, (1480)
1500
(HQ) (300)
Warboss – PK, BP - 90
Mad Dok Grotsnik – 160
Painboy - 50
(Elite) (0)
(Troops) (578)
29 shoota boyz 3 big shootas /w nob leader, PK, BP – 263
29 shoota boyz 3 big shootas /w nob leader, PK, BP – 263
14 gretchen /w 1 runt herder - 52
(Fortification) (100)
Aegis Defense line /w quad gun – 100
(Disclaimer! Don't have the leaked book so some of this could be off, I think Gretchen points cost may have changed, nob leaders on boyz squads, etc)
I am also a casual player, so this may look absolutely awful to you, but it's worked for me so far! Just putting my thoughts out there for 7th / the new book.
Perfect Organism wrote: Does anyone see any great benefit to putting Kaptin Badrukk in a unit other than Flash Gits now? It seems that the combination of firepower and leadership should have a lot of utility, but his weapon is just a bit too specific to put him in a lot of units.
He kinda goes well with a unit that's not good at shooting anyways, like MANz or nobz. If he's the only one shooting, there is no antisynergy.
Otherwise, a unit of kustom mega-kannons sound like a good home for him.
Jidmah wrote: I wouldn't combine an ordnance weapon with rokkits, since most of them are going to miss. Either use big shootaz, or simply leave them at home. Either way, I've never been too impressed with the killkannon, it simply lacks punch and range.
True, but what that combination does bring is versatility, threat and endurance for a decent amount of points. With all firing, there is some nice anti-MEQ. Just Rokkits are good vs Armor, so don't fire the Ordnance. The main job is blocking LoS with overlapped armor 14 and granting 5++. Of course, this is all theoretical at this point.
Perfect Organism wrote: Does anyone see any great benefit to putting Kaptin Badrukk in a unit other than Flash Gits now? It seems that the combination of firepower and leadership should have a lot of utility, but his weapon is just a bit too specific to put him in a lot of units.
Badrukk.
I could see him going with tankbustas, or maybe even lootas.
I agree that the problem with him is the specialness of his gun, its mid range strength but low ap. He has no real hand to hand mojo so you either put him with a shooty unit, or put him in a unit that doesn't want to run but has hth mojo.
With lootas the strength of the gun is the same, but his is less range than the other lootas, he also could bring with him some ammo runts which would give the unit rerolls.
With tankbustas his gun is near the strength of a rokkit, and if the unit has some tankhammerz he has some hth defense.
I could also see him in a 5 man kommando squad that has 2 rokkits or 2 burnaz, which would also give Badrukk stealth under the new dex, and outflank if you wanted.
I wouldn't put him with MANz or Nobz as they want to run..and if badrukk runs hes not shooting so why did you buy him anyways.
How are you guys gonna tackle heavy armoured targets: Leman russ tanks and MC with 2+ saves?
Previously my best bet were small units of warbikers with a PK. Not quite sure now. Speeding mega nobz forward looks to put plenty of pressure on the opponent, but a savvy player will just wreck their trukk in turn 1 half of the time.
The Home Nuggeteer wrote: Orks get all this gak and half my characters are cut and my name is retconned. Damn. Anyway will the move to HS cut down on lootas.
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Overlord Thraka wrote: I think some Codex Re-writing is in order... This sucks. I'd much rather have 'Eavy armor on Flashgitz for example
at least you didnt get half your characters removed and a taurox.
Doubt Lootas are going anywhere. They're still reliable anti-vehicle and anti-flyer. Mek Gunz are good, but also $46 a pop and lots of Ork players already have their lootas.
While I weep for Marbo and Bastonne (both of whom I used in my guard counts-as), at least you still get invulnerable saves and Valkyrie/Vendetta squadrons. We still can't even squadron Dakka Jets.
The Home Nuggeteer wrote: Orks get all this gak and half my characters are cut and my name is retconned. Damn. Anyway will the move to HS cut down on lootas.
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Overlord Thraka wrote: I think some Codex Re-writing is in order... This sucks. I'd much rather have 'Eavy armor on Flashgitz for example
at least you didnt get half your characters removed and a taurox.
No but we got our invuls removed, cover removed and bunch of HS slots
The Home Nuggeteer wrote: Orks get all this gak and half my characters are cut and my name is retconned. Damn. Anyway will the move to HS cut down on lootas.
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Overlord Thraka wrote: I think some Codex Re-writing is in order... This sucks. I'd much rather have 'Eavy armor on Flashgitz for example
at least you didnt get half your characters removed and a taurox.
No but we got our invuls removed, cover removed and bunch of HS slots
Guys. No one is more upset about the insane/ inane Ork changes than me, but can we keep this thread positive, please?
We need honest talk about what to do to keep us competitive.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Could someone explain why I would use the FoC from the codex, instead of just doing a normal double FoC?
Hammer of wrath on roll of 10+ doesn't seem worth it.
I think my course of action is going to be clear. I've always enjoyed CC most with Orks. Dakka is fine and all, but nothing feels better than slaughtering tanks by beating on them with my Choppa and Klaws. I've always loved Kanz anyway, and being able to pack 6 in one slot is AWESOME to me, even with their Panic rule now. I'm probably going to end up getting my mitts on 2 Morkanaughts, slapping KFF on them, and setting up a Kan wall with 5++ Invul bubbles, with Boyz taking up the rear (or possibly front, depending on scenario). Maybe field a Big Mek with another KFF for once the Boyz end up getting a little too far from the overlap bubble. Kanz and Naughts will drop rokkits and templates on the enemies, with little Meks inside the Naughts to keep the thing running, Painboyz with the Boyz to keep em stitched up.
If I'm feeling really risky (Which I usually am), I feel my Weirdboyz will see a lot of play with our new table. The witchfires are awesome, or being able to tele my blob of Boyz in while they try to deal with my invul walkers is always a neat idea as well. Maybe Ill run 2 Weirds in 30 strong blobs, keep them behind the Walkers, and try to pop off a teleport and open fire/charge the next turn into select targets, all while my walkers continue to hail fire on them.
Please keep complaints about the codex out of this threads, this one is about tactics. There are at least three threads which are full of complaints, keep them there. Especially so for codices other than the ork codex.
mrfantastical wrote:Could someone explain why I would use the FoC from the codex, instead of just doing a normal double FoC?
Hammer of wrath on roll of 10+ doesn't seem worth it.
Well, two reasons:
1) You don't want four troops, but three HQs. At low point levels this might be a bigger issue than in larger games, but I don't really see a use for gretchin anymore, so I don't want a bunch in my list just to enable more HQs.
2) You are playing in an environment which forbids multiple detachments. A couple of tournaments have already announced that they are banning multiples CADs due to shenanigans certain armies can pull off, the main offender here apparently being necrons.
10" also isn't that hard to archive when you have 'ere we go and get +2" from boarding planks. You can also buy your warboss a Finkin' Kap and try to either get the +1" warlord trait from the BRB or the rerollable charge range from our warlord table.
Melevolence wrote:I think my course of action is going to be clear. I've always enjoyed CC most with Orks. Dakka is fine and all, but nothing feels better than slaughtering tanks by beating on them with my Choppa and Klaws. I've always loved Kanz anyway, and being able to pack 6 in one slot is AWESOME to me, even with their Panic rule now. I'm probably going to end up getting my mitts on 2 Morkanaughts, slapping KFF on them, and setting up a Kan wall with 5++ Invul bubbles, with Boyz taking up the rear (or possibly front, depending on scenario). Maybe field a Big Mek with another KFF for once the Boyz end up getting a little too far from the overlap bubble. Kanz and Naughts will drop rokkits and templates on the enemies, with little Meks inside the Naughts to keep the thing running, Painboyz with the Boyz to keep em stitched up.
If I'm feeling really risky (Which I usually am), I feel my Weirdboyz will see a lot of play with our new table. The witchfires are awesome, or being able to tele my blob of Boyz in while they try to deal with my invul walkers is always a neat idea as well. Maybe Ill run 2 Weirds in 30 strong blobs, keep them behind the Walkers, and try to pop off a teleport and open fire/charge the next turn into select targets, all while my walkers continue to hail fire on them.
Note that you can also add Meks to your boyz mobs for emergency repairs and generally a more fluffy look in the army. IMO weirdboyz would also work well in a mob of flash gits or tank bustas, since they can lay down a mean shooting the turn they deep strike.
The gaining of Hammer of Wrath comes in before modifiers, so the +2 from the boarding plank isnt benefitial in achieving this. Obviously Ere we go is still a benefit since you can opt to reroll one of the two dice. I'm no good at math hammer but that should give a pretty reasonable chance of rolling a 10.
is green tide using the formation a wash? i haven't played it in 6th or 7th, but you can get 180 boyz with toys in the squad for 1500 (we play 2k games around here). that leaves alot of room for warbosses and other characters and units.
I would want to find ways to include fast objective secured troops into the list. If orks dont look like they can do this option well then I would look to find ways to be as lethal as possible against armies that can do fast mobile obj secured lists well.
I like the boarding planks option alot. I think heavy armor, trucks and planks is where I will start OR the FOC that allows for multiple WAAAGHS!!! per game.
Mathhammer for 'ere we go is pretty much creating a spread sheet and comparing rerolls to no rerolls.
When you do, it becomes obvious that you should not reroll any 4's or higher unless you are already failing the charge.
If you alway reroll your lowest dice if it'S 3 or less, the average charge distance is 8.23".
If you always reroll your lowest dice, it's 7.92".
If you never reroll your lowest dice, it's 7", obviously.
If you reroll all rolls if they are 3 or less using the ork warlord trait, it's 8.5".
If you add the extra inch using the BRB warlord trait using 'ere we go as described in the first line, it's 9.23".
So basically, don't take a risk if you made the charge and a lower roll would fail you. If you didn't, then try to reroll your lowest dice. If you make it anyways and you want more orks in combat, reroll a dice below 3.
Also, the BRB charge+run trait is vastly superior to the ork charge+run trait.
zachwho wrote: is green tide using the formation a wash? i haven't played it in 6th or 7th, but you can get 180 boyz with toys in the squad for 1500 (we play 2k games around here). that leaves alot of room for warbosses and other characters and units.
can the gun lines kill that many orks by turn 2?
An unbuffed wave serpent can kill 6-7 boyz a turn, plus maybe another one due to mob rule. So, five wave serpents mean at least two mobs gone by the end of turn 2. You might not lose everything, but I wouldn't bank on having enough boyz to kill their stuff if you don't bring some sort of protection (FNP or KFF).
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koooaei wrote: Emm, how's our no-objective-secure for a 3 HQfoc different from plain unbound than? Just warlord trait rerolls?
Damn, i'd better have 0-3 additional slots like IG did.
Hammer of Wrath for units of 10 or more orks rolling 10" or more to charge. Basically one unit randomly ruining their target once per game.
HOW is unimpressive to say the least. Firstly, only the ones in basse contact will cause HOW. Secondly, it's s3. So, statistically, to kill 1 marine you'll need 9 HOW's. It's not that easy to bring 9 in base contact. And if you're allready close enough, it won't matter cause you'll have 50+ s4 attacks anywayz. So, not impressed with HOW. It feels like less reliable soulblaze. I mean even less reliable.
On the bright side is that it's at least something. But realistically, to make boyz work we'll have to play double foc or unbound anywayz cause you need warbosses and painbosses en masse. Or walker spams backed with big gunz and lootas. Will still need 2foc or unbound.
Isn't the HOW taken at Str 10 from the ruling of it? swear i read that in the rumours thread when they were leaking the dex's juices all over da forum
I have been looking at dred listsby incorporating some IA8 stuff, which looks reasonably promising. KFFnaught + mega + meka dred sounds good fun, with some dreds as OS troops from IA8. Combined with bikers / buggies seems a good option. not much OS but meh, more a fun orky list.
I think buggies are looking pretty strong. keep them barebones, 25pts, rokkits, squad of 5 for 100 pts. thats 5 TL rokkits that can outflank. barebones as i think grot riggers is pretty useless and trakks might be situational considering that on a full unit its the same as an extra buggie.
Multiple units of buggies could be nice and strong. plenty of target saturation for cheap. I think this edition we will see more wagon trukk lists, but less BW rush lists.
a looted wagon kitted with rokkits and tankbustas in a force with plenty of looted wagons could have potential. They are as cheap as a trukk almost and excellent gun platforms, not intended to withstand much fire, but for the cost you could bring a shed load.
looted wagon wih flash gits and 4 big shootas?
can you still stick a Megaarmoured HQ in a transport and still soak the wounds by rolling them against him? or is it now every model takes a hit?
MANz missiles are still pretty effective imo, not much changed on their end bar ramshackle.
If anyone has got any dread or walker heavy lists they think could be effective please share your thoughts really hoping to play walker heavy this ed.
zachwho wrote: is green tide using the formation a wash? i haven't played it in 6th or 7th, but you can get 180 boyz with toys in the squad for 1500 (we play 2k games around here). that leaves alot of room for warbosses and other characters and units.
can the gun lines kill that many orks by turn 2?
If you're using the formation, make sure to get prophet of the waaggh as warlord trait : 180 boys fearless every turn that's a bingo. haha.
// Or if this is allowed, take Gazzy as warlord of the formation.
My gut instinct is that vehicles, as a whole, are a trap. And explosive trap that hungers for Ladz. RIding in them, running near them, heck, turn one STANDING near them, they're all primed and ready to explode. Yes, popping tanks is harder in 7th by a considerable margin, but it still leaves me nervous.
As such, cheaper bikes have really stepped up (in TheoryHammer) as a better alternative to Trukkboys. I'm thinking gobs of proper footsloggers, backed by some long range firepower, with bikers taking the fight to the foe at first. Go ahead and jink those guys: Twin-linked at 6 isn't that much worse than twin-linked at a 5, and you pick up a 4+ cover save in the process. A lack of tanks means opposition heavy weapons aren't that useful, and you can just Green Tide all up in their face.
A big part of thise is the expansion of 'eavy armor on the front ranks, giving the 4+ save that you need to shrug off Tau guns and Marine bolters for a while, while the front rank gives the following crew a 5+ cover save. Only the first rank gets 'Eavy armor, everyone else staying cheap and numerous.
So, Bikers on the flanks, 'Ardboys in the middle, backed by everyone else, and just start going up the middle with the every-turn WAAAGH! bonus. Adding all the cool toys is nice, but, well, "Boys before Toys" and all that.
Wakshaani wrote: My gut instinct is that vehicles, as a whole, are a trap. And explosive trap that hungers for Ladz. RIding in them, running near them, heck, turn one STANDING near them, they're all primed and ready to explode. Yes, popping tanks is harder in 7th by a considerable margin, but it still leaves me nervous.
I would agree. Trukks are still not good even with grot riggers and boarding blanks. You would be relying on getting first turn and a lot of luck.
Troops
- 12 Shootaboys with Plated Klaw Nob and Pole in a Trukk with a Ram
- 12 Shootaboys with Plated Klaw Nob and Pole in a Trukk with a Ram
- 12 Shootaboys with Plated Klaw Nob and Pole in a Trukk with a Ram
- 12 Shootaboys with Plated Klaw Nob and Pole in a Trukk with a Ram
Elite
- 12 Burnaboys
Fast Attack
- 8 Bikers with Klaw Nob and Pole
Support
- Battle Wagon with two Big Shootas, Plates, Ram
- 6 Lootaz
- 6 Lootaz
Now with the KFF getting nerfed I think I'll swap the Bigmek for a Waaaghboss with Mega-armour to get that Waaagh.
Also adding a Painboy to the BW for some extra protection.
Since I don't yet know the exact points of the new burnaboys I've penciled them in at 18 points per boy.
I'll also add grot riggers to my BW cause feth yeah grot riggers.
So all in all I'm back at 1500 points and all thats changed is that I traded my Mek with a Waaaghboss and added a Painboy.
5x trukks and 3x wagons loaded with boys and HQs. it all just seems fragile... tide and vehicle heavy lists.
I'm not being a negative Nancy, i know we need some play testing, but the loss of fearless and the new kff have me scratching my head on how to get the bone to the other side with some meat still on it!!
zachwho wrote: the trukk rush list could have potential i guess.
5x trukks and 3x wagons loaded with boys and HQs. it all just seems fragile... tide and vehicle heavy lists.
I'm not being a negative Nancy, i know we need some play testing, but the loss of fearless and the new kff have me scratching my head on how to get the bone to the other side with some meat still on it!!
Do Painboys use a HQ slot? or can you choose one per actual HQ like the Meks?
I've been playing Orks since 3rd and I have to say getting them to the other end of the table has ALWAYS been the problem lol.
Now, that being said it's not all doom and gloom. With the way that Maelstrom games work the enemy can't just hang back and shoot at you all day.
The biggest buffs that I've seen so far are in the now way overcrowded HS section. New Big Gunz, Morkanaught, BW getting IWND, and Lootaz being 2/3 their old cost. It's going to be tricky but I think if you can balance out that section you can really support the rest of the army with serious firepower.
The Trakktor cannon will be a big boon against Waveserpent spam and FMC's alike.
Solar Shock wrote: Isn't the HOW taken at Str 10 from the ruling of it? swear i read that in the rumours thread when they were leaking the dex's juices all over da forum
I have been looking at dred listsby incorporating some IA8 stuff, which looks reasonably promising. KFFnaught + mega + meka dred sounds good fun, with some dreds as OS troops from IA8. Combined with bikers / buggies seems a good option. not much OS but meh, more a fun orky list.
I think buggies are looking pretty strong. keep them barebones, 25pts, rokkits, squad of 5 for 100 pts. thats 5 TL rokkits that can outflank. barebones as i think grot riggers is pretty useless and trakks might be situational considering that on a full unit its the same as an extra buggie.
Multiple units of buggies could be nice and strong. plenty of target saturation for cheap. I think this edition we will see more wagon trukk lists, but less BW rush lists.
a looted wagon kitted with rokkits and tankbustas in a force with plenty of looted wagons could have potential. They are as cheap as a trukk almost and excellent gun platforms, not intended to withstand much fire, but for the cost you could bring a shed load.
looted wagon wih flash gits and 4 big shootas?
can you still stick a Megaarmoured HQ in a transport and still soak the wounds by rolling them against him? or is it now every model takes a hit?
MANz missiles are still pretty effective imo, not much changed on their end bar ramshackle.
If anyone has got any dread or walker heavy lists they think could be effective please share your thoughts really hoping to play walker heavy this ed.
Hammer of Wrath is resolved at I10, so any marine you kill using it will not be able to strike back. You might also be thinking of Zagstrukk, who has S8 AP2 HoW attacks.
Adding Morkanauts to a dreadmob list also seems like the obvious thing to do. I wouldn't use Mekkadreads though (unless you really want a walker HQ), the Morkanaut is pretty much better in every aspect. The mega dread is still nice.
I somehow doubt the usability of buggies (and koptas) since five rokkits will to very little to most vehicles except shave off a couple of HP. I'll give them a try though, and I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise.
As for all the looted wagon plans, keep in mind that you can only fire one weapon at BS2 when moving or none at all when moving fast. Even though people say that orks don't mind snap firing, losing half your hits still hurts on single-shot weapons.
One thing that I am a bit annoyed about though, how are we supposed to get a dreadmob going when they didn't increase Dreadnoughts to units of 1-3 while removing the ability to take them as troops when you get a Big Mek in there?
BigmekRatsmek wrote: Since I don't yet know the exact points of the new burnaboys I've penciled them in at 18 points per boy.
Burna boyz are 16, and they can now have a trukk on their own.
Tank bustaz have dropped to 12 per ork and got a metric ton of buffs, as well as access to dedicated trukks. Maybe an option for your list? They are also very easy to build. Just collect all the rokkit boyz from your boyz mobs, convert a pair of tank hammers and you've got yourself a brand new unit of tank bustaz
More Dakka wrote: One thing that I am a bit annoyed about though, how are we supposed to get a dreadmob going when they didn't increase Dreadnoughts to units of 1-3 while removing the ability to take them as troops when you get a Big Mek in there?
By using the IA8 Dread Mob list, that's what I'll be doing for the foreseeable future.
I just hope they don't up the points on Spanna Boyz to reflect the more expensive shootas, that is the change I am the most annoyed by.
Also, regarding Lootas and Burnas: Their cost reduction/increase was said to be 5pts per unit, not per model, making it a 1pt per model decrease/increase. So 14pt Lootas and 16pt Burnas. Not 10pt lootas and 20pt Burnas.
yeah, idk what the best combination of HQs will be in trukk rush list.
i know I'll a warboss for the formation, what else must i take?
I'll most likely have 2 if i can have big meks with kffs, so that's 3, then 3 lil meks with killsaws. i don't know, i need the freaking codex lol.
Seems to me that if biker Mek w/KFF is a thing... It'll be a thing that'll get used a lot in certain lists:
BW SPAM
Biker NObz
I've been wanting to run my old 5th BW list, but with the Nerf to KFF in a transport I may have to stick my Big Mek behind the wall o AV14 BW's as they move up the field.his 6" Bubble should be able to cover at least 5 BW's.
More Dakka wrote: One thing that I am a bit annoyed about though, how are we supposed to get a dreadmob going when they didn't increase Dreadnoughts to units of 1-3 while removing the ability to take them as troops when you get a Big Mek in there?
Field four units of boyz and two HQs?
Just field two CAD like this:
CAD: Bad Moonz
CAD: Deff Skullz
HQ Big Mek, mega armor KFF, Finkin' Kap (he's the warlord, because you want rerolls to run/charge on your walkers)
Mek, killsaw
Bik Mek, mega armor, KFF, Da Fixer Upperz (Repairs dreads and Morkanauts)
Mek, killsaw
Troops 20 boyz, nob, boss pole
20 boyz, nob, boss pole
20 boyz, nob, boss pole
20 boyz, nob, boss pole
What's interesting, is I'm seeing a lot of tournaments saying you can use 1 CAD and 1 'other' detechment.
- Orks can choose to use a detachment with 3 HQ 9 Troops 3 FA 3 Elite 3 HS instead of the normal one. If they do 1 HQ and 3 Troops are mandatory. Units of 10 or more models that roll 10" or more on the charge have Hammer of Wrath. No objective secured.
That would let you run 15 units of truk boys. It's like greentide on wheels.
I notice several discussions of tactics/lists are including individual units from the IA8 Dread Mob list. While some of the Dread Mob units note that they can be included in the 40k Codex: Orks (e.g., Zhadsnark, Warkoptas, Grot Tanks) other units don't (e.g., Lifta Wagon, Big Trakk). In 6th edition, it seemed reasonable to bring the Dread Mob list as an allied detachment but now in 7th edition are we allowed to pick and choose individual units from the Dread Mob list...acknowledging that IA8 hasn't been FAQ'd/updated to reflect the changes to the new Codex: Orks?
What has been people's experience with bringing individual Dread Mob units?
Karl Hammer wrote: I notice several discussions of tactics/lists are including individual units from the IA8 Dread Mob list. While some of the Dread Mob units note that they can be included in the 40k Codex: Orks (e.g., Zhadsnark, Warkoptas, Grot Tanks) other units don't (e.g., Lifta Wagon, Big Trakk). In 6th edition, it seemed reasonable to bring the Dread Mob list as an allied detachment but now in 7th edition are we allowed to pick and choose individual units from the Dread Mob list...acknowledging that IA8 hasn't been FAQ'd/updated to reflect the changes to the new Codex: Orks?
What has been people's experience with bringing individual Dread Mob units?
Well, actually most units can be fielded as part of an ork army, including the big trakk. The only one that can't, from the top of my head, are cybork slashers, junk trukks, the lifta-droppa, the painboss and the self-destructing gretchin mobs.
The warboss got nerfed fairly hard by removing his Invulnerable save, but did we even need the warboss in the first place? The only real reason to take one was because a biker warboss / nob unit was our most reliable method of killing tanks and monstrous creatures. Now we've got Kustom Mega Kannons and other S:8 spam to deal with those.
Likewise, the Kustom Force Field got reduced in effectiveness, but was it really worth the investment before? I only really took one because I had to have a HQ and the Big Mek / KFF combo was the best available. Once battlewagons full of shoota boys got nerfed, the KFF was looking a little useless anyway.
Now we've got access to painboys, workable weirdboys, Badrukk as a HQ character and a Dok Grotsnik who is actually good, I don't think we need to worry too much about how bad our old HQ choices became. They weren't going to keep up with the new guys even if they didn't get nerfed.
Perfect Organism wrote: The warboss got nerfed fairly hard by removing his Invulnerable save, but did we even need the warboss in the first place?
He's still a cheap S10 AP2 power Klaw on a T5 body, has access to the Waaagh! banner to give slugga boyz WS5 and has the Waaagh! special rule (which you need in order to call Waaaagh! and charge after running).
The warboss got nerfed fairly hard by removing his Invulnerable save, but did we even need the warboss in the first place? The only real reason to take one was because a biker warboss / nob unit was our most reliable method of killing tanks and monstrous creatures. Now we've got Kustom Mega Kannons and other S:8 spam to deal with those.
Likewise, the Kustom Force Field got reduced in effectiveness, but was it really worth the investment before? I only really took one because I had to have a HQ and the Big Mek / KFF combo was the best available. Once battlewagons full of shoota boys got nerfed, the KFF was looking a little useless anyway.
Now we've got access to painboys, workable weirdboys, Badrukk as a HQ character and a Dok Grotsnik who is actually good, I don't think we need to worry too much about how bad our old HQ choices became. They weren't going to keep up with the new guys even if they didn't get nerfed.
I agree that Warbosses are a suboptimal choice, except for their Waaagh rule. That alone makes fielding a barbones Warboss worthwhile. Put him on a bike, give him 3 nobz to be a bodyguard. T6 will save him from any S*2 ID.
I think Battlewagons are still seriously good transports, and to keep them alive a Big Mek on a Bike with a KFF is hard to beat. He's got 4+/5++ and can jink if he really has to. Have him in the same unit as the warboss, hiding behind your battlewagons full of killy stuff. MANz, Slugga Boyz and Burna Boyz in battlewagons are still effective. His Waaagh! will let your boyz run and charge. Honestly, I'm wary of Pain Boyz. They're ICs, so not hard to pick out in CC and are basically running on their FNP(5+ I think?). Like the Warboss, they're not that great once they actually get INTO combat. They're better off keeping your ranged elements alive.
Melevolence wrote:I think my course of action is going to be clear. I've always enjoyed CC most with Orks. Dakka is fine and all, but nothing feels better than slaughtering tanks by beating on them with my Choppa and Klaws. I've always loved Kanz anyway, and being able to pack 6 in one slot is AWESOME to me, even with their Panic rule now. I'm probably going to end up getting my mitts on 2 Morkanaughts, slapping KFF on them, and setting up a Kan wall with 5++ Invul bubbles, with Boyz taking up the rear (or possibly front, depending on scenario). Maybe field a Big Mek with another KFF for once the Boyz end up getting a little too far from the overlap bubble. Kanz and Naughts will drop rokkits and templates on the enemies, with little Meks inside the Naughts to keep the thing running, Painboyz with the Boyz to keep em stitched up.
If I'm feeling really risky (Which I usually am), I feel my Weirdboyz will see a lot of play with our new table. The witchfires are awesome, or being able to tele my blob of Boyz in while they try to deal with my invul walkers is always a neat idea as well. Maybe Ill run 2 Weirds in 30 strong blobs, keep them behind the Walkers, and try to pop off a teleport and open fire/charge the next turn into select targets, all while my walkers continue to hail fire on them.
Note that you can also add Meks to your boyz mobs for emergency repairs and generally a more fluffy look in the army. IMO weirdboyz would also work well in a mob of flash gits or tank bustas, since they can lay down a mean shooting the turn they deep strike.
Definitely. It will finally give me a reason to use the two Meks I'veg ot laying in boxes somewhere, as well as encourage me to potentially buy more Loota boxes as well. Totally down for it. I never thought to weirdboy deep strike Tank Bustas. Could be fun as hell to bamboozal their tanks like that!
So my BikerNobz with PB will switch over to Bikers with KFF Mek on Bike and Painboss on Bike with all Characters always denying challenges. And a Stompa holding Meks and Lootas with more Meks.
streamdragon wrote: I agree that Warbosses are a suboptimal choice, except for their Waaagh rule. That alone makes fielding a barbones Warboss worthwhile. Put him on a bike, give him 3 nobz to be a bodyguard. T6 will save him from any S*2 ID.
I think Battlewagons are still seriously good transports, and to keep them alive a Big Mek on a Bike with a KFF is hard to beat. He's got 4+/5++ and can jink if he really has to. Have him in the same unit as the warboss, hiding behind your battlewagons full of killy stuff. MANz, Slugga Boyz and Burna Boyz in battlewagons are still effective. His Waaagh! will let your boyz run and charge. Honestly, I'm wary of Pain Boyz. They're ICs, so not hard to pick out in CC and are basically running on their FNP(5+ I think?). Like the Warboss, they're not that great once they actually get INTO combat. They're better off keeping your ranged elements alive.
I'm not that impressed with the Waaagh! rule either. Most of our good assault units are also short-range shooting units; shoota boys, bikes, tankbustas, burna boys. The assault is used to finish the enemy off after shooting them up. I'd rather fall short on my charge than give up my short-range shooting. Dedicated ork assault units seem generally pretty weak; the only one I would give up shooting on is meganobs and they can't run anyway.
I don't see painboys being that easy to gank in close combat. There will usually be a boss nob in the squad to handle the first challenge and possibly another independent character to handle a second one. Worst case scenario, just keep him at the back and refuse challenges.
The only really great thing about a warboss in my opinion is the fact he is Ld 9 and can take a bike, but for the cost I think I'd rather have another 5 bikers in the unit. That should be enough to make up for a couple of failed Ld tests with the new mob rule.
I am really worried about challenges against the warboss now though. The optimal wep for the boss is PK of course and if some SM char has anything ap 2 the warboss is done for. btw would that also mean you loose the waagghh rule as well?
tehinchman wrote: I am really worried about challenges against the warboss now though. The optimal wep for the boss is PK of course and if some SM char has anything ap 2 the warboss is done for. btw would that also mean you loose the waagghh rule as well?
I hear that. I'm more or less flabbergasted that they took away any sort of Invuln save from our Warbosses. Every race and their mothers have Invul saves left and right, especially for their HQs and most of the Characters as well. A Warboss is only GOOD in CC, where he needs to get too ASAP. And now more than ever, he will continue to be worse at this than every other race in existence. (Except maybe Tau). I love all my Warboss models too. I painted them to each have Star Trek colored shirts and everything! Because...I'm strange? They just look cool! I don't care they are all AOBR! :(
I'll still try to use them from time to time in a near full infantry army. You can't have a WAAAGH without him! (Both figuratively, and now literally with the new rules....) I'm just sad they spat in the faces of the guys who are supposed to be the roughest and toughest!
I dont know if its proper to ask it here, so sorry if no, but hou do you think hou will this codex reflect on ork kill team ? Im kinda have this idea of Shota boyz and Komandos meiby with Boss Snik and maiby fit in ther a trukk somehou )? what do you think? Also any rumors on when can 7 ed kill team drop ?
tehinchman wrote: I am really worried about challenges against the warboss now though. The optimal wep for the boss is PK of course and if some SM char has anything ap 2 the warboss is done for. btw would that also mean you loose the waagghh rule as well?
You're just starting to worry about this now? Warbosses have been dying in challenges for almost as long as we have had challenges.
darkflame182 wrote: I dont know if its proper to ask it here, so sorry if no, but hou do you think hou will this codex reflect on ork kill team ? Im kinda have this idea of Shota boyz and Komandos meiby with Boss Snik and maiby fit in ther a trukk somehou )? what do you think? Also any rumors on when can 7 ed kill team drop ?
I always thought playing vehicles in KT was kinda dirty. Even bikes or jetbikes often felt dirty D:
tehinchman wrote: I am really worried about challenges against the warboss now though. The optimal wep for the boss is PK of course and if some SM char has anything ap 2 the warboss is done for. btw would that also mean you loose the waagghh rule as well?
You're just starting to worry about this now? Warbosses have been dying in challenges for almost as long as we have had challenges.
no bro they could at least survive with the cybork 5++, which always helped me out.
I don't think the Warboss is useless. Yeah, he'll get the snot beat out of him by a SM Eternal Warrior 3++ Chapter Master with a Thunderhammer, but who wouldn't?
On a Warbike he can safely charge Riptides and Wraithknights. Sweeping a Riptide is easy, and can even deal considerable damage to a Wraithknight. He deals 2.8 Wounds on a Charge and 2.2 wounds per turn after. The Wraithknight deals 1.666 Wounds per turn to the Warboss. 1v1 the Wraithknight has an advantage, but part of any other unit the Wraithknight can't allocate wounds to the Warboss. A Riptide only deals .5Wounds/ Turn against a Warboss Biker.
Charging a unit of Centurions. Tacticals. Lord on CCB. Etc. Basically charging any unit that isn't a decked out CC monster.
He puts an average of 3+ HPs on anything with AV11 Rear armor.
Even if the Warboss is just on Warbike in a unit of boyz and splits off to take out another target, he has his uses. Even with a ID Melee Weapon, he has a good chance to simply take out a Wraithknight without missing a beat. There are many many targets he can simply kill on his own without needing an Invuln. The things he'd need an invuln against, say a decked out Chapter Master, he'd lose anyway with a 5++.
The 5++ is what made Nobz viable IMO. Without it, extremely susceptible to Manticores, which are goddamn everywhere in IG and simply 2+ them off of the table now.
I like the idea of Warbikers as the *new* Nob Bikers. I have a crapload of them, as long as they don't FAQ Zadsnark out of the game (touch wood) could have a lot of fun there.
Dakkamite wrote: The 5++ is what made Nobz viable IMO. Without it, extremely susceptible to Manticores, which are goddamn everywhere in IG and simply 2+ them off of the table now.
I like the idea of Warbikers as the *new* Nob Bikers. I have a crapload of them, as long as they don't FAQ Zadsnark out of the game (touch wood) could have a lot of fun there.
Same here. I'm sitting on roughly 20 of them, and I'd still like to run them if I can, though I may end up doing a much sought after Walker army this time around.
I don't get why 5++ is seen as something that will let your nobz or warboss survive a whole lot of punishment. The statistics show it will only work a third of the time, and in my games it hasn't been decisive. Nice sometimes yes. Making a huge difference, no.
I don't see the loss of cybork body as much of an issue. Then again I like my SM captain with his shield eternal and the warboss is just a wuss in comparison.
Waaargh wrote: I don't get why 5++ is seen as something that will let your nobz or warboss survive a whole lot of punishment. The statistics show it will only work a third of the time, and in my games it hasn't been decisive. Nice sometimes yes. Making a huge difference, no.
I don't see the loss of cybork body as much of an issue. Then again I like my SM captain with his shield eternal and the warboss is just a wuss in comparison.
Because a 1/3 of the time is better than 0. It was worth the small point investment to give us ANY way to stick around longer.
Edit: Also, the point is...the Warboss shouldn't be a wuss. He should be a genuine threat. If he gets stuck in, the other player SHOULD have concerns. Not laugh it off like it's nothing.
Zagman wrote: I don't think the Warboss is useless. Yeah, he'll get the snot beat out of him by a SM Eternal Warrior 3++ Chapter Master with a Thunderhammer, but who wouldn't?
On a Warbike he can safely charge Riptides and Wraithknights. Sweeping a Riptide is easy, and can even deal considerable damage to a Wraithknight. He deals 2.8 Wounds on a Charge and 2.2 wounds per turn after. The Wraithknight deals 1.666 Wounds per turn to the Warboss. 1v1 the Wraithknight has an advantage, but part of any other unit the Wraithknight can't allocate wounds to the Warboss. A Riptide only deals .5Wounds/ Turn against a Warboss Biker.
Charging a unit of Centurions. Tacticals. Lord on CCB. Etc. Basically charging any unit that isn't a decked out CC monster.
He puts an average of 3+ HPs on anything with AV11 Rear armor.
Even if the Warboss is just on Warbike in a unit of boyz and splits off to take out another target, he has his uses. Even with a ID Melee Weapon, he has a good chance to simply take out a Wraithknight without missing a beat. There are many many targets he can simply kill on his own without needing an Invuln. The things he'd need an invuln against, say a decked out Chapter Master, he'd lose anyway with a 5++.
The problem is that many of those tasks can be accomplished more easily with another unit that doesn't risk giving up extra kill points.
Riptides and Wraithknights are still AP2 from smash, so you're getting no save. Granted the Riptide is a problem for most/all Ork units, but I feel like some of the new Mek Gunz are much better suited to dealing with it.
AV11 armor? Lootas or again Mek Gunz can and will trash it without having to get into CC.
And while the 5++ wouldn't keep him alive forever against decked out CC monsters, it also saved him from "not necessarily combat monster but still has AP2" things like TMCs. I seriously don't understand how people can coo and tout the new 5+ FnP while lamenting how somehow useless 5++ was.
tehinchman wrote: I am really worried about challenges against the warboss now though. The optimal wep for the boss is PK of course and if some SM char has anything ap 2 the warboss is done for. btw would that also mean you loose the waagghh rule as well?
they are also at i 1 then... outside of MC not much AP2 thats not I 1 as well.
your ork also can take a relic that rends, and insta kills on 6's, at the WB's initiative now.
you need to re think the "always take a PK" mentality, there are a few better options now, put a PK boss in a unit, and a relic choppa in the unit, for challenges where you have to go first use the i4 insta death rending guy, for others the PK boss.
Automatically Appended Next Post: we are also, the ONLY race, outside of eldar,
to have RANGED weapons that insta gib on 6's as well.
teleportas on MANz, 5++ on mans, killsaws+1 attack as well, lots of good stuff for MANz,
sure no 5++ in combat only, but relying on a 5++ to save you is not going to win games. re rolling a 2+ guaranteed on the warboss is better then a 5++ you will fail most of the time.
tehinchman wrote: I am really worried about challenges against the warboss now though. The optimal wep for the boss is PK of course and if some SM char has anything ap 2 the warboss is done for. btw would that also mean you loose the waagghh rule as well?
they are also at i 1 then... outside of MC not much AP2 thats not I 1 as well.
your ork also can take a relic that rends, and insta kills on 6's, at the WB's initiative now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: we are also, the ONLY race, outside of eldar,
to have RANGED weapons that insta gib on 6's as well.
teleportas on MANz, 5++ on mans, killsaws+1 attack as well, lots of good stuff for MANz,
sure no 5++ in combat only, but relying on a 5++ to save you is not going to win games. re rolling a 2+ guaranteed on the warboss is better then a 5++ you will fail most of the time.
With high abundance of AP 2, rerolling that 2+ is absolutely useless. Give me back my 5++.
tehinchman wrote: I am really worried about challenges against the warboss now though. The optimal wep for the boss is PK of course and if some SM char has anything ap 2 the warboss is done for. btw would that also mean you loose the waagghh rule as well?
they are also at i 1 then... outside of MC not much AP2 thats not I 1 as well.
your ork also can take a relic that rends, and insta kills on 6's, at the WB's initiative now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: we are also, the ONLY race, outside of eldar,
to have RANGED weapons that insta gib on 6's as well.
teleportas on MANz, 5++ on mans, killsaws+1 attack as well, lots of good stuff for MANz,
sure no 5++ in combat only, but relying on a 5++ to save you is not going to win games. re rolling a 2+ guaranteed on the warboss is better then a 5++ you will fail most of the time.
With high abundance of AP 2, rerolling that 2+ is absolutely useless. Give me back my 5++.
you HAVE a 5++ still from the KFF from shooting..... and you can re roll that 5++ now... as opposed to your 2+ dudes getting mowed down by ap2 fire and ignores cover before, now they actually get ++ saves
in close combat, 99% of ap2 is at I1, so you get to dish out damage, and unless you are in a challenge, you dont have to take the wounds on your boss.
against everything in close combat/shooting that isnt ap2, having a guaranteed re rollable 2+ is a huge buff.
Waaargh wrote: I don't get why 5++ is seen as something that will let your nobz or warboss survive a whole lot of punishment. The statistics show it will only work a third of the time, and in my games it hasn't been decisive. Nice sometimes yes. Making a huge difference, no.
I don't see the loss of cybork body as much of an issue. Then again I like my SM captain with his shield eternal and the warboss is just a wuss in comparison.
It doesn't make them "survivable" it just makes them more difficult to 2+ away. Certain stuff hard countered the living gak out of Nob Bikers, wiping out hundreds of points of them in one shot (meanwhile, FW is "unbalanced"). The 5+ at least made that a little less of an issue.
Warbikers + PB is looking pretty legit, and Orks are looking... well, pretty reasonable now with multi-FoC. Without it, I feel we lack the characters needed to make our army durable enough to do anything at all.
tehinchman wrote: I am really worried about challenges against the warboss now though. The optimal wep for the boss is PK of course and if some SM char has anything ap 2 the warboss is done for. btw would that also mean you loose the waagghh rule as well?
they are also at i 1 then... outside of MC not much AP2 thats not I 1 as well.
your ork also can take a relic that rends, and insta kills on 6's, at the WB's initiative now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: we are also, the ONLY race, outside of eldar,
to have RANGED weapons that insta gib on 6's as well.
teleportas on MANz, 5++ on mans, killsaws+1 attack as well, lots of good stuff for MANz,
sure no 5++ in combat only, but relying on a 5++ to save you is not going to win games. re rolling a 2+ guaranteed on the warboss is better then a 5++ you will fail most of the time.
With high abundance of AP 2, rerolling that 2+ is absolutely useless. Give me back my 5++.
you HAVE a 5++ still from the KFF from shooting..... and you can re roll that 5++ now... as opposed to your 2+ dudes getting mowed down by ap2 fire and ignores cover before, now they actually get ++ saves
in close combat, 99% of ap2 is at I1, so you get to dish out damage, and unless you are in a challenge, you dont have to take the wounds on your boss.
against everything in close combat/shooting that isnt ap2, having a guaranteed re rollable 2+ is a huge buff.
KFF is a good buff, I never said anything otherwise. I'm talking in close combat.
And yet the issue still stands. Anyone who goes into cc with a warboss WILL declare a challenge. It's stupid of them not too, otherwise the Boss will wipe everything out while his Boyz suck up wounds. In a challenge, in many cases, the boss will die. Period. Even if striking at the same time. Thats why I would rather have the 5++ while in CC over rerollable 2+ with armor. At least that way I can AVOID damage when I'm striking at the same time as other power weapons.
KFF is a good buff, I never said anything otherwise. I'm talking in close combat.
And yet the issue still stands. Anyone who goes into cc with a warboss WILL declare a challenge. It's stupid of them not too, otherwise the Boss will wipe everything out while his Boyz suck up wounds. In a challenge, in many cases, the boss will die. Period. Even if striking at the same time. Thats why I would rather have the 5++ while in CC over rerollable 2+ with armor. At least that way I can AVOID damage when I'm striking at the same time as other power weapons.
isnt the painboys FNP a 5++ in that you can roll it even if you fail or cant roll the AP2?
so take a painboy instead.... unless you already were, so now you want a 5++ and FNP. I just think the warboss will be way more survivable than you give it credit for if you deck him out. Lucky stixx and head wompa. doesn't even need that mega armour, re-rolls on wounds, likely to get an ID on the enemy, put him on a bike. He even has a PK that you can use if you wish.
multiple warboses. There reasonably cheap for the stats. Rather than an unholy deathstar, multiple threats that can bring the pain. yeh a challenge could end him... accept the challenge with your mek, your painboy, your nob. Your suggesting we run him solo? or that he is in a unit without other characters. since when has that ever been the case?
Zagman wrote: I don't think the Warboss is useless. Yeah, he'll get the snot beat out of him by a SM Eternal Warrior 3++ Chapter Master with a Thunderhammer, but who wouldn't?
On a Warbike he can safely charge Riptides and Wraithknights. Sweeping a Riptide is easy, and can even deal considerable damage to a Wraithknight. He deals 2.8 Wounds on a Charge and 2.2 wounds per turn after. The Wraithknight deals 1.666 Wounds per turn to the Warboss. 1v1 the Wraithknight has an advantage, but part of any other unit the Wraithknight can't allocate wounds to the Warboss. A Riptide only deals .5Wounds/ Turn against a Warboss Biker.
Charging a unit of Centurions. Tacticals. Lord on CCB. Etc. Basically charging any unit that isn't a decked out CC monster.
He puts an average of 3+ HPs on anything with AV11 Rear armor.
Even if the Warboss is just on Warbike in a unit of boyz and splits off to take out another target, he has his uses. Even with a ID Melee Weapon, he has a good chance to simply take out a Wraithknight without missing a beat. There are many many targets he can simply kill on his own without needing an Invuln. The things he'd need an invuln against, say a decked out Chapter Master, he'd lose anyway with a 5++.
The problem is that many of those tasks can be accomplished more easily with another unit that doesn't risk giving up extra kill points.
Riptides and Wraithknights are still AP2 from smash, so you're getting no save. Granted the Riptide is a problem for most/all Ork units, but I feel like some of the new Mek Gunz are much better suited to dealing with it.
AV11 armor? Lootas or again Mek Gunz can and will trash it without having to get into CC.
And while the 5++ wouldn't keep him alive forever against decked out CC monsters, it also saved him from "not necessarily combat monster but still has AP2" things like TMCs. I seriously don't understand how people can coo and tout the new 5+ FnP while lamenting how somehow useless 5++ was.
Not necessarily. Yes, Riptides and Wraithknights are AP2 from Smash, but a Riptide gets three swings, hits with one on average, and wounds half the time. And costs twice as much. Warboss wins this one. Yes, Wraithknights can kill them, but hidden in a unit its wounding the Wraithknight on 2s, has a better weapons skill, and can be hidden with Ablative Boyz.
I was references AV11 Rear armor, ie Russes, Barges, etc. Basically anything that has good front armor and is hit on its rear armor in CC. You are also missing that the Warboss can move with a unit and break off for opportune targets for an auto kill, where as Lootas and Mek Gunz offten have differeing target priority.
I never said the 5++ wasn't a loss, it just wasn't the deciding factor against CC Monsters. TMC will die quickly to a Warboss as most are not Characters and the 5++ on the Warboss wouldn't have been relevant. FNP is better than a 5++ is many situations, every one where you get another save actually.
I'm not saying the Warboss is the be all end all of challenges or CC, but he is still a damned good CC unit that is fast, can seperate from units when necessary, and can single handedly take out threats that are a problem for the army in general. Its far easier to split a Warboss on Bike off and take out a Riptide in CC, than it is to try and take one out in shooting.
Ork have use for a unit like that. And its one hell of a lot of S10 AP2 attacks in CC that as long as you have another character in the unit to challenge and he can mulch enemy units. 4 S10 attacks per turn, usually with one reroll which i didn't even factor in above, is a lot of potent CC ability.
Its about options and not getting into CC with the things a Warboss shouldn't, which happen to be the exact same things he should have avoided last codex. He can't handle a tooled out Chapter Master, but he can handle alot of other things and brings S10 to the table which is always awesome.
Well said Zagman, bemoaning the loss of CB is somewhat pointless when there's nothing you can really do about it besides working around it like a proppa Ork would do. If it really bothers you that much no one's forcing you to play Orks, or hell if you have decent friends ask them to see if you can house-rule CB to give a 5++ like it did previously.
Also the constant comparisons of the WB to the Shield Eternal CM is pretty unfair given the points disparity between the two, I should hope that the model that costs more would beat our cheap beat-stick HQ. I mean even with the CB from before the WB didn't have a very good chance of taking down the CM so it's not that big of a deal to begin with.
zachwho wrote: ok put a warboss on abike witha bike mek and kff in a squad of bikers. hide behind 3 wagons, add in trukks. speed freaks list seems good.
what would you put in the wagons, burnas or boyz?
Given that shoota boyz got a mild price hike burna boyz might not be a bad option here. They help negate the BW's weaknesses of being assault by the ubiquitous krak-toting marines since very few units can handle 12+ burnas being auto-hit in their face during overwatch and create a veritable denial zone with the 3 wagons. Course you probably want to cover their sides with each other+Trukks or something. Just keep them away from any template weapons. Then there's also the Mek's you can keep in the unit to repair it against any HP losses or immobilized results.
zachwho wrote: ok put a warboss on abike witha bike mek and kff in a squad of bikers. hide behind 3 wagons, add in trukks. speed freaks list seems good.
what would you put in the wagons, burnas or boyz?
Burnaz in the spear tip, slugga boyz w/ nob in one side, maybe MANz in the other? I'd guard the sides of the BWs as Grimskul said with a couple units of 'ard boyz in Trukks.
Really? What Chaos player do you know that doesn't take the AoBF on his lord? What Space Marine player do you know that isn't taking the Burning Blade, or doesn't have the Shield Eternal to laugh off that power-claw?
What Tyranid HQ's are you fighting that aren't rocking native AP2 from being MC's?
What Daemon players do you know who fight you in CC with an HQ that isn't an MC or isn't taking a 10-point etherblade?
99% of AP2 might be initiative 1 normally, but in a competitive setting, you'll rarely find just a naked powerfist/equivalent.
So with all the talks about challenges and loss of 5++ being a big hit (I agree mostly) I think we really need to be aware of what characters we stacking in these units.
So Mr.Smashface SM ChapterMaster rolls up with his buds on a bike to challenge my Warboss's unit. Fine you get to tango with the MekBoy while my Boss does the heavy lifting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
zachwho wrote: i like that, i think I'll do a arsonist themed speed freak trukk list with wagons.
can the burnas fire overwatch from an open xport? haven't refreshed my rule knowledge for them yet.
Yes, oh yes. And I don't believe it has to be open topped, you can have a ard case. And the fireports don't have to be facing I believe.
I could be totally wrong.
Really? What Chaos player do you know that doesn't take the AoBF on his lord? What Space Marine player do you know that isn't taking the Burning Blade, or doesn't have the Shield Eternal to laugh off that power-claw?
What Tyranid HQ's are you fighting that aren't rocking native AP2 from being MC's?
What Daemon players do you know who fight you in CC with an HQ that isn't an MC or isn't taking a 10-point etherblade?
99% of AP2 might be initiative 1 normally, but in a competitive setting, you'll rarely find just a naked powerfist/equivalent.
all those things kicked warbosses butts when they had 5++.... sure they still kick a warbosses butt now that he doesnt have a 5++....what is your point exactly.
now I have the option to be smart, and sacrifice a different character to the challenge, and have instant death weapons in my wargear list that strike at initiatve I now have the option to take.
orks also have instant death shooting weapons.
right there are a few good OPTIONS i have that i didnt before, to deal with MCs and especially MC that outclass everything in my codext in HTH combat, as they have ALWAYS done...
this is a tactics thread, less QQ about what might have been and what was and more tactics!
seriously, do NOT underestimate the power of the orks now... we have instant death CCW, we have instant death SHOOTING... unless I am missing somthing, outside of eldar and D weapons, thats not somthing everyone has...
and its now a blast, so hits most of the time, and a 2 w 2+ 5++(with mek) 5+++(with painboy) shooting platform that can take grots to reroll....
also.. the freaking SAG... it wont go vortex that often... but when it does.. your oponent is so utterly fethed... its a large str d blast that keeps drifting over their feild...
ohhhh yeah... going to be good...
this codex is HUGE for MANZ, and gives boys a nice threat range boost so we dont have to waste as many points getting them into combat.
easysauce wrote: all those things kicked warbosses butts when they had 5++.... sure they still kick a warbosses butt now that he doesnt have a 5++....what is your point exactly.
My point is that "99% of AP2 in the game goes at initiative 1" is a silly argument for anything.
now I have the option to be smart, and sacrifice a different character to the challenge
Which is irrelevant to the topic of discussion, which was "how good are Warbosses in a challenge", the answer to which is "not very".
I don't give a gak about orks, in fact I don't even play orks. So spare me your ironic complaining about other peoples' complaining. The power level of Orks is of no concern to me. I'm just pointing out that your apologist argument for a Warboss' effectiveness in a challenge is flawed. Any model that's relying on a mere 2+ save to survive a challenge is screwed unless you're using him as a bully unit and beating up termagaunts and guardsmen and tactical squads or something.
Really? What Chaos player do you know that doesn't take the AoBF on his lord? What Space Marine player do you know that isn't taking the Burning Blade, or doesn't have the Shield Eternal to laugh off that power-claw?
What Tyranid HQ's are you fighting that aren't rocking native AP2 from being MC's?
What Daemon players do you know who fight you in CC with an HQ that isn't an MC or isn't taking a 10-point etherblade?
99% of AP2 might be initiative 1 normally, but in a competitive setting, you'll rarely find just a naked powerfist/equivalent.
99% may have been an exaggeration! but Il humor you.
You've mentioned the SM Beatstick, which at twice the cost does kill a Warboss, as it should. Also, the Burning blade is not the competitive choice, Shield Eternal, Thunderhammer(I1!), artificer Armor, and a bike is. Without the Shield Eternal the Chapter Master wouldn't stand much of a chance. And the Warboss is usually half the cost.
Chaos isn't a huge concern, and currently a Khorne Lord really isn't on the list of competitive choices. Even so, they are equal weapon skill and the Warboss has just as good a chance of surviving and Iding The Lord. Lord hits on 4s and Wounds on 4s. Warboss almost always survives. Warboss hits on 4s and IDs on 2s vs the Lords Invulnerable. The Warboss is cheaper and wins this matchup.
Tyranid HQs? Those Flyrants that don't want to land, when they do they die. Even hitting CC the Warboss still wins by a considerable margin and is half the cost.
Daemon HQs are either MCs or get IDed right back. Some are obviously bad match ups, and at over twice the cost of course a Warboss wants nothing to do with a Bloodthirster. Most other ICs are getting IDed.
Nothing you mentioned was competitive. Using the Warboss for CC isn't about letting your opponent send their CC Monster at him, it's about you being mobile and choosing beneficial CCs, most of which the Warboss can handle solo. Ie Riptodes are a prime Target, SM Beatstick or Driago is a bad one. Etc. THSS Termies are to be avoided, Centurions are to be charged. Etc.
Warboss is pretty cheap, he is what he is, you can't expect him to roll into combat with the big nasties at half their cost, but just about anything else is fair game.
Losing the 5++ is a 50% increase in the number of unsaved wounds taken, so it's a pretty big deal. Although I'm pretty sure most people are aggravated by how arbitrary the nerf was.
The relic big choppa has such a bizarre power curve for what it's effective against, I think that it's totally worth sticking on a biker boss on occasion, especially for those who take a pair of them. Depending on what your regular opponents use the rending/ID effect will be hilarious and outperforms the PK in those situations by a massive degree. Frankly, having a choice other than a PK that isn't obviously bad is refreshing.
The codex as a whole seems to want to push people towards speedfreaks-style play.
easysauce wrote: all those things kicked warbosses butts when they had 5++.... sure they still kick a warbosses butt now that he doesnt have a 5++....what is your point exactly.
My point is that "99% of AP2 in the game goes at initiative 1" is a silly argument for anything.
now I have the option to be smart, and sacrifice a different character to the challenge
Which is irrelevant to the topic of discussion, which was "how good are Warbosses in a challenge", the answer to which is "not very".
I don't give a gak about orks, in fact I don't even play orks. So spare me tyour complaining about other peoples' complaining. The power level of Orks is of no concern to me. I'm just pointing out that your apologist argument for a Warboss' effectiveness in a challenge is flawed. Warbosses are garbage in challenges unless you're using him as a bully unit and beating termagautns and guardsmen and tactical squads or something.
mhmmmmm have fun with not giving a *expletive* about orks and then being such a jerk in an ork tactic thread.
OBS i dont literally mean 99%, but it is a fact that most ap 2 stuff is initiative one, and your warboss is not the solution for ap2 stuff thats got better initiative, and I never said it was.
If you want to cherry pick the non I 1 ap2 attacks,and say they will kill warbosses, fine, go ahead and state the obvious... i dont disagree with that obvious and non helpful statement at all, we all know our WB;s always have and always will get pwned by demon princes and greater deamons.
however people are not running decked out CC characters or demons in competitive tournaments, in fact, they generally avoid ALL CC for the best shooting units available.
so in general,
having the option to split my warboss off from the main pack, and charge some large groop of non ap2 guys (which is a lot of units) and then proceed to wreck them with a rerollable 2+ for less then 150 pts... is AWESOME!
seriously... we have rerollable 2+ saves now... isntant death CCW and shooting, 5++ on manz, FNP on mans (without the 150 pt tax...) we have ranged solutions to all armours, we have the BEST AA in game, which will own all the FMCès out there that can rape our warbosses.
our basic troop is t4, 6pts, and can run and charge, and reroll a charge dice, so turn 2 charges are now a fairly reliable thing...
Zagman wrote: Using the Warboss for CC isn't about letting your opponent send their CC Monster at him, it's about you being mobile and choosing beneficial CCs, most of which the Warboss can handle solo. Ie Riptodes are a prime Target, SM Beatstick or Driago is a bad one. Etc. THSS Termies are to be avoided, Centurions are to be charged. Etc.
I'm glad you agree with me that the Warboss is getting handled if it's relying on it's 2+ save to keep it alive in a challenge against any beatsick.
easysauce wrote: If you want to cherry pick the non I 1 ap2 attacks,and say they will kill warbosses, fine, go ahead and state the obvious... i dont disagree with that
I am really looking forwards to going back to a green tide sort of lists. I was also wondering what fortifications people might be considering for their Orks. I think a bastion with an escape hatch would be a very awesome way to drop a foot unit far up the field with giving a good vantage point to lootas.
I do have a problem though, I just got a Gargantuan Squiggoth this year and now Ghazzy is a LoW. So unless the Warboss supplement solves my problem I can't have Ghazzy ride his new pet into battle unless I double CaD.
DaKrumpa wrote: I am really looking forwards to going back to a green tide sort of lists. I was also wondering what fortifications people might be considering for their Orks. I think a bastion with an escape hatch would be a very awesome way to drop a foot unit far up the field with giving a good vantage point to lootas.
I do have a problem though, I just got a Gargantuan Squiggoth this year and now Ghazzy is a LoW. So unless the Warboss supplement solves my problem I can't have Ghazzy ride his new pet into battle unless I double CaD.
I ere ya matey!
I wanted to use stompa and ghazzy my self!
can always tool up ghazz as a counts as warboss though!
my hat is off to you if you evar finish painting dat squggoth!
Not gonna lie. Da Hedwompa might not be a totally viable weapon (S8 warbosses on the charge rather than S10, AP5 Rending rather than AP2, but strikes at Init4) but i seriously want to kitbash a boss on bike wielding this oversized and menacing axe lol. Init 4 may not beat out a lot of characters (freakin SM captains all are I5 and some special ones are higher) or big bugs but i will strike at the same time most of the time, and still paste T4 models and potentially paste T6+ models.
Im thinkin an axe about 1.5X the size of the warboss himself lol. I still got my old old AOBR boss lying around i can convert with, just gotta give him a new fist and an oversized axe!
Not quite as useful against EW since less attacks that will pen armor (wtf with EW doesnt have a 2+ lol) but those are pretty rare and the bearers of said rules would probably kick the warbosses ass anyway, even in megaarmor with pk.
Vineheart01 wrote: Not gonna lie. Da Hedwompa might not be a totally viable weapon (S8 warbosses on the charge rather than S10, AP5 Rending rather than AP2, but strikes at Init4) but i seriously want to kitbash a boss on bike wielding this oversized and menacing axe lol. Init 4 may not beat out a lot of characters (freakin SM captains all are I5 and some special ones are higher) or big bugs but i will strike at the same time most of the time, and still paste T4 models and potentially paste T6+ models.
Im thinkin an axe about 1.5X the size of the warboss himself lol. I still got my old old AOBR boss lying around i can convert with, just gotta give him a new fist and an oversized axe!
Not quite as useful against EW since less attacks that will pen armor (wtf with EW doesnt have a 2+ lol) but those are pretty rare and the bearers of said rules would probably kick the warbosses ass anyway, even in megaarmor with pk.
A bikerboss with Da Hedwompa and the Lucky Stikk is what, ~130 points? With his bike dropped down to mere Moondrakken levels, cybork totally not being worth it, and the Lucky Stikk not costing much more than an old attack squigg plus being +1WS to his unit, he is pretty bloody cheap and easy to fit into a list.
Also with bosses being able to take waagghhh banners regular boyz can be WS5
5++ was essential for a warboss. From my gaming experience, serious mellee challengers did around 2-4 wounds to a warboss on ini (burning blades, aobf). Heck, even farsight did 1-2 wounds. You had 5++ and fnp which saved around half of the wounds. Without 5++ it's 1 less save which is the difference between 4-6 s10 ap2 attacks and 0 attacks and dead warboss + slay the warlord and swept ld7 squad that costs 300+ pts. Remember, your warboss does not have 4 wounds like chapter master or even tau commander. Oh, that tau commanders. Not once have they killed entire squads of my sluggaboyz with pk nobz singlehandedly.
I am kind of considering making a toned down speed freakz list. Two CAD's, match up the speeds of looted wagons, battlewagons, bikes (with a big mek, warboss, maybe a painboy; but I want to try and keep such a unit reasonably costed). Bommers for outflank/reserve and Lootas for backfield support. Maybe some trukks as support, but it's unlikely to be necessary with a bunch of battlewagons and the looted wagons. The only issue is that I'd have three AV 11 transports and no other AV 10/11 (besides bommers) to draw fire from them. Should I add in buggies too? I'm thinking burnas, boyz and meganob missiles in the transports.
2 possible Tank Shocks/Rams per turn. Can claim objectives.
Can take 30 at 1850. Will eventually destroy everything.
I don't think that Looted Wagons are allowed to tank-shock if you roll "Don't press dat!". Might want to check with YMDC on that.
As of right now, only 1 tank shock/ram allowed on your movement phase.
Stupid yes, unfluffy yes, defies the laws of physics, yes
Ok this is a couple pages late but clarify this. Where does it say you can only tankshock/ram once during the movement phase? I see nothing in either tankshock or ram talking about only one vehicle per turn can do this action, and thats what im getting from your response here. Which is huge for me as BOTH my orks and my tau tankshock/ram a lot. Its a very powerful tool in many situations nobody ever pays attention to. I almost always have to read the rules word-for-word whenever i do it because nobody knows wtf they are lol.
Also with bosses being able to take waagghhh banners regular boyz can be WS5
Holy gak I didnt even think of thatt
Omg...neither did i....
Thats 14x Warbikers with 3 attacks each, 4 on charge, a Nob with 3 PK attacks 4 on charge, a warboss with 4 attacks 5 on charge using Da Hedwompa all at WS5. Thats insane. That is a potential 56 S4 attacks from the boyz at WS5 on the charge. Holy freakin gak. I think my ~10 unassembled bikers are about to get fixed up.....lol
Warboss would actually be swinging at WS6, I thought. Also, I'm sort of new to 6th/7th, but if you took the new formation and rolled over a 10 on a charge, would the warbikes get HoW hits?
Yea he would. Being WS6 rarely means anything though, its WS5 that is massive to get your hands on, especially with that many bodies.
Unless youre against a character with WS5 in a challenge, the bosses WS6 with the stixx wont mean anything.
And personally outside warbosses i dont know many characters that are WS5. Theyre all WS3/4 or 6+ far as ive ever had to deal with. Thats me though, i could just be "lucky"
Gratlugg wrote: Warboss would actually be swinging at WS6, I thought. Also, I'm sort of new to 6th/7th, but if you took the new formation and rolled over a 10 on a charge, would the warbikes get HoW hits?
Bikes and walkers always get HoW gits. Jump infantry gets HoW when they have not used their jump pack to move.
Gratlugg wrote: Warboss would actually be swinging at WS6, I thought. Also, I'm sort of new to 6th/7th, but if you took the new formation and rolled over a 10 on a charge, would the warbikes get HoW hits?
Bikes and walkers always get HoW gits. Jump infantry gets HoW when they have not used their jump pack to move.
My bad! Still a bit new to things. I think a boss on bike with the relic choppa and lucky stick will be pretty beastly, and much cheaper than previous nobs on bikes setup.
Speed freak list with multiple cheap warbosses, giving some BW boys or 'ard boys WS5. that is something that could be enjoyable and fluffy
I like the idea of smaller units that may not be able to roll over deathstar units, but bring plenty of pain for a low points cost. I like the idea of da head wompa relic, as a warboss with a freakin huge axe is the kinda warboss i imagine!
Jidmah, a few pages back you suggested a morkanaught over a meka-dread, can i ask as to what you reasoning was. I really like the idea of the rokkit bomb racks, even with a chance for them to run out T1. I think your right having looked at them both, but id like your views or anyone elses for that matter.
I am also unsure what to transport within the morka's, if I was to bring 2, id want one with the relic fixer (3+) and a mek atleast in the other. are burna boys most suitable? cant shoot out, or assault out. So the only time your unit inside is gona hop out is either if it gets close enough to the enemy or you have a dedicated assault unit coming your way and its the only defense about? Plus are you even likely to be running instead of shooting the naughts? I would assume that you'd want to be shooting every turn. so the unit inside is unlikely to see combat soon.
I'm really looking forward to playing them on the new warband formation.
Now the trukk costs 5 points less wich covers the mandatory boarding plank (still 5pts right?), basically they cost the same, they got more charge range and the chance to pile in 11 attacks plus a claw at I10...
The downside is that ramshackle is nerfed, but it's still a 6+ save on pen (kinda) and the S4 hits from the explosion combined with the new mob rule is just a big mess.
I'm really looking forward to playing them on the new warband formation.
Now the trukk costs 5 points less wich covers the mandatory boarding plank (still 5pts right?), basically they cost the same, they got more charge range and the chance to pile in 11 attacks plus a claw at I10...
The downside is that ramshackle is nerfed, but it's still a 6+ save on pen (kinda) and the S4 hits from the explosion combined with the new mob rule is just a big mess.
Thoughts?
The S4 explosion and mob rule combination could be a little annoying, but i think with trukk boys its still simply more trukks than can be shot. 12 boys is what roughly 72 pts with extras and a trukk, whats that less than 120 pts? still able to field many of these units. Yeh not quite as strong as before with ramshackle, the ability to be protected from templates inside open topped and fearless at 12 strong. But I still think they are very viable. I just personally dont want to play a speed freaks or rush list.
Meganobs in trukks, small unit sizes for MANZ missiles I think is something also very viable. With a warboss and those 2+ armour saves mob rule and the S4 explosion aren't too much to be worried about. combination of trukk boys, MANz missiles and some bikers imo is still a strong setup
Billagio wrote: A mob of Boyz hitting most things on 3s though is beautiful thing. Is it confirmed that bosses can take waaagh banners?
The lucky stikk is a waaagh banner. You don't even need to buy them separately. It's basically an auto-take relic. 2+ re-rollable armour on a megaboss, re-rollable to-wound for any 's with the PK, or try for a rend/ID with the 'eadwomper, and have a good chance of converting attacks to hits (3+ re-roll). Just stop if you flub a couple dice, it's all going to be 2+ or 3+. I believe Mel said it was only 5 points more than a regular waaaagh banner too.
The warboss got a general durability nerf, but he's going to go beast mode as a hidden beatstikk, and be dirt cheap.
I just dont see anyone shooting at trukk boys when they have things like MAN Z en thein truks or BWs... seriously people are going to be having a hard time deciding what to shoot at in the one turn they get ti shoot with
Billagio wrote: A mob of Boyz hitting most things on 3s though is beautiful thing. Is it confirmed that bosses can take waaagh banners?
The lucky stikk is a waaagh banner. You don't even need to buy them separately. It's basically an auto-take relic. 2+ re-rollable armour on a megaboss, re-rollable to-wound for any 's with the PK, or try for a rend/ID with the 'eadwomper, and have a good chance of converting attacks to hits (3+ re-roll). Just stop if you flub a couple dice, it's all going to be 2+ or 3+. I believe Mel said it was only 5 points more than a regular waaaagh banner too.
The warboss got a general durability nerf, but he's going to go beast mode as a hidden beatstikk, and be dirt cheap.
BooBoo wrote: But the Stikk and da Choppa are both Relics. And you can only include ONE PER ARMY as Melcavuk has stated on the other and waaaaagh'ly longer thread.
I think it means that we can only include ONE OF EACH RELIC PER ARMY, and not ONE RELIC PER ARMY. At least, that's what I've gotten from it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Think I'm going to make a BW wall with looted wagons on the flanks and a unit of bikers with KFF mek/painboy hidden in the vehicular bubble. Burnas in one wagon, boyz in two others, with MANz missiles in trukks. Lootas and maybe grotz sit in backfield on objectives/providing supportive fire, reserved bommer and maybe some buggies if I manage to fit it in.
How are people feeling about the mini-Meks? Are they there to make our transports more durable? Should you just take them for killsaws?
"if 3 of these rerolls fail in a single turn the model is removed"
A warboss has 4 attacks, and will usuall hit on 3+
So, 1.33 attack will fail and we might want to re-roll
After the reroll, we have 0.44 re-roll failed and 3.56 hits
Then the to Wound rolls. Let's say the Warboss wounds on 3+ on average (we may use him to fight high T models, but we will surely give him PK or some BC)
3.56 hits gives 2.37 wounds and 1.19 fails
if we decide to re-roll, that gives 0.40 failed re-roll
So that's about 0.84 failed re-rolls, on average.
In the opponent's sub-phase, the Warboss will have a few Save to roll, a small fraction of which will fail and may need re-roll.
What I'm saying is that it may not be that rare to fail 3 re-roll if you decide to re-roll everything.
Also, the Lukky Stikk was *NOT* listed as a Waaagh Banner from what I can read in the "rumors thread" ... so, could we please have confirmation?
Than don't use the relic like that. Only use it for rerolling your 2+ saves and never use it after the second fail unless it's life or death. Makes it a zero risk item.
Maybe use it for hit/wound when at the btm of a turn if you're not going to take another save before the fail counter resets.
Did a quick simulation: just taking into account rolls to Hit (on 3+) and rolls to Wound (on 3+), with 4 attacks, you end up with at least 3 failed re-rolls 2.6% of the time
If you're facing a tougher opponent (hit on 4+, wound on 4+), this happens almost 19% of the time (and 5% of the time just after you re-roll the failed to Hit)
Depends on how much it costs. If your warboss is in a challenge vs a worthy opponent, he's dead anywayz both with or without a stix. It might probably be used for FNP rerolls though. Besides, it's important how it works. If you reroll one at a time - it's a zero-risk relic. If you have to say: I'll reroll 3 dice than it's risky.
And a turn is both your and enemy turn?
Yep, unfortunately, once again warbosses should avoid a good fight vs beatsticks.
Solar Shock wrote: Jidmah, a few pages back you suggested a morkanaught over a meka-dread, can i ask as to what you reasoning was. I really like the idea of the rokkit bomb racks, even with a chance for them to run out T1. I think your right having looked at them both, but id like your views or anyone elses for that matter.
I playtested the meka dread a couple of times by using soul grinders as proxy, when I decided whether I buy one or not. In the end, the Kustom Meka dread is very expensive and not very hard to kill since its just 3 HP and rear armor 11 often caused it be killed by skimmers driving behind it. It also has very few attacks when charged, which happens more often than you'd think, since no one wants it to have its additional rage attacks. You also can't take both the KFF and the bomb racks.
The morkanaut, on the other hand is only slightly more expensive (290 with KFF and IWND vs meka dread at 280 with shunta and KFF), but is vastly superior in shooting with its KMK, KMB and TL-rokkit , and also much a much harder punch in close combat as well, due to AP1 and more attacks. Rear armor 12, 5 HP and IWND are just the icing on the cake. Personally, I'd just ignore the transport capacity, maybe use it later during a game to hide away a unit of boyz that's about to get wiped out, just have them capture an objective later on.
easysauce wrote: I just dont see anyone shooting at trukk boys when they have things like MAN Z en thein truks or BWs... seriously people are going to be having a hard time deciding what to shoot at in the one turn they get ti shoot with
Especially considering that you can fill 3 slots with trukks now, as burnaz, tank bustaz and flash gits got the option to take them. Not to mention the metric ton of buggies you can put into your fast attack slot now. When two dozen AV10 vehicles come barreling straight at you, some are bound to survive. Using the void shield generator or ADL to mitigate first turn shooting will also go a long way, while I also like the idea of bike meks simply hiding behind a pair of trukks.
12 boys is what roughly 72 pts with extras and a trukk, whats that less than 120 pts?
Without a nob yes, but i'm not sure i want to field them without one...
Pulls up the cost to around 150
Both nob upgrade and trukk have been confirmed to have become cheaper. I don't know by how much though.
nflagey wrote: Also, the Lukky Stikk was *NOT* listed as a Waaagh Banner from what I can read in the "rumors thread" ... so, could we please have confirmation?
When someone asked whether the +1WS from lukky stikk stacks with Waaagh! banners, he said that it explicitly doesn't because it's a Waaagh! banner itself. Fluff-wise, the Lukky Stikk is Thrakka's Waagh! banner that used to be held by the grot accompanying him, before Thrakka accidentally sat on him.
Gratlugg wrote: How are people feeling about the mini-Meks? Are they there to make our transports more durable? Should you just take them for killsaws?
Depends on cost. I think Mel said they were 25 points plus 30 for a killsaw; at that price there's no way are they worth it. For 15-20 points they are a reasonable method of buffing a battlewagon. If they come with a rokkit, I'd pay 20-25 points or up to 45 or so with a killsaw.
A huge downgrade from the 15-point no-brainer meks with their 4+ repair rolls in the last codex, but they were pretty powerful.
Thanks Jidmah,
Yeh i wasn't sure of the meka dreads HP point conversion (as its not in IA8), but yeh 5 HP points is rather brutal. Seems i have need to convert myself some morkanaughts! i think il stick a couple meks into them, or does that seem overkill with IWND? I suppose il have to play test it.
Its a damn shame there not assault vehicles, because id have loved to hide some nobs or a nasty unit inside, purely for a fluffy warboss bursting out of his big robot to bust some skulls! But i can live without i suppose
I think as long as your smart with lukky stixx then you can't really fail it by accident. I will assume the re-rolls account across the whole turn. so you can simply use it depedant on the situation.
out of assault? gona get shot up? save it for those 2+ saves.
In a challenge? use it to help try max your chance of IDing with the wompa. else your gona need it for the FNP saves. if you get the ID then you most likely wont need to make any saves as your challenger is a little headless atm.
obviously the lower the roll needed anyway the less likely you are to fail. a 2+ re-roll is pretty damn reliable (1/36 of a double 1). so you can simply be aware of it. Plus im sure after some play testing you will get a better feeling of what your boss is needing to re-roll.
I think a bike mek with KFF will be the most potent way to deliver KFF saves to vehicles, as you can most definitely squeeze the bike inbetween 4 vehicles at the centre point, while still maintaining a nice LOS block to him. He also has the ability to turbo boost so you can divert him away to another unit if really needed. that OS ork boys on the obj about to get shot up? a zip over and theres a nice KFF save.
What are your guys thoughts of lil meks in trukks? i personally am not sure its worth it (unless your bringing the lil mek purely for the killsaw), as when a trukk is getting shot down it usually goes down or will be down next turn regardless of restoring that HP - ignoring situations where your KFF gods are smiling. Whereas a BW tend to stick it out a little longer. plenty of times the KFF saves have allowed it to last out a turn. so IWND and the little meks become useful.
What are your thoughts on kans? doesn't seem like much has changed bar the panic (which is pretty negated in a dred list) and the squad sizes.
Solar Shock wrote: What are your thoughts on kans? doesn't seem like much has changed bar the panic (which is pretty negated in a dred list) and the squad sizes.
Apparently, their cost has increased by 25%, but they come with the big shoota included. I assume that means they are 50 points base compared to the old 35 points+weapon.
OOooooo very nice liking this list, super manageable compared to IA8 book!
So now ive reached a dilemma, I need/think i should bring a HQ from the dread mob list, as it will allow my 3 deff dreds to be troops. question is; How should I handle the changes to the ork codex? as the big mek for example is referenced to the old(soon to be) dex, and as of this would have the old KFF etc... but then he also cant take a bike. So would it be reasonable to state that I will use the rules for the big mek as per this new dex. That way all the rules would stay consistent? Plus im not gaining any advantage that I can see; other than access to the dred mob lists.
Also, if i was to use the latest rules, how does the painboss measure up? with cybork bodies now being a 6+ FNP he no longer has a 5+ invun and his (5+)FNP. he simply has his 6+/5+FNP, which is rather diminished. Plus his ability to give cybork to a squad of troop boys so (6+ FNP) is a little meh :/
Mek Boss Buzzgob sounds awesome, i have a wicked conversion in mind i could do for him (think Doc Octopus / MGS Laughing Octopus), but he has the special rule where if he is included in a dread army he has to be the warlord. He then gains the ability that dreds within 6" are OS(basically), which is rather useless as if I brought dreds they would be OS as id be within the standard FOC?
koooaei wrote: Depends on how much it costs. If your warboss is in a challenge vs a worthy opponent, he's dead anywayz both with or without a stix. It might probably be used for FNP rerolls though. Besides, it's important how it works. If you reroll one at a time - it's a zero-risk relic. If you have to say: I'll reroll 3 dice than it's risky.
And a turn is both your and enemy turn?
Yep, unfortunately, once again warbosses should avoid a good fight vs beatsticks.
Actually something I just thought of, the wording of the lucky stikk will need to be checked because if it just says "turn" and not specifically "game turn" than according to the rule book you must fail three rerolls in a player turn.
koooaei wrote: Depends on how much it costs. If your warboss is in a challenge vs a worthy opponent, he's dead anywayz both with or without a stix. It might probably be used for FNP rerolls though. Besides, it's important how it works. If you reroll one at a time - it's a zero-risk relic. If you have to say: I'll reroll 3 dice than it's risky.
And a turn is both your and enemy turn?
Yep, unfortunately, once again warbosses should avoid a good fight vs beatsticks.
Actually something I just thought of, the wording of the lucky stikk will need to be checked because if it just says "turn" and not specifically "game turn" than according to the rule book you must fail three rerolls in a player turn.
so your suggesting it could be 3 in my turn and 3 in the opponents turn? that would be pretty crazy.
With the new relics and the 4+ KFF not being a replacement....
Big mek - 4++ KFF, Mega armour, SAG With an artillery unit:
So thats a big mek with T7, 2+, 4++,with a unit of artillery that can technically move and shoot (was that changed in 7th ed anyway). Just now need to pick the artillery that has the most synergy with the SAG? bubble chucka? for massive amounts of large blasts?
That would be a KMK, since it's also high strength AP2 shooting. The bubblechukka is pretty much worthless in every aspect.
Keep in mind that anything that somehow connects to the unit in close combat will almost be guaranteed to wipe it out, and you'll lose a 200 point HQ in the process.
Jidmah wrote: That would be a KMK, since it's also high strength AP2 shooting. The bubblechukka is pretty much worthless in every aspect.
Keep in mind that anything that somehow connects to the unit in close combat will almost be guaranteed to wipe it out, and you'll lose a 200 point HQ in the process.
yeh was thinking that,at least any DS'ers would receive a nice big welcome shot trying to work on a mek heavy idea, with main aim being shooting. Flash gitz, weirdboy and an MA-Mek with a KFF? hope for teleport and appear on the flanks for some gun blitzing Perhaps some big trakks as gun platforms for units? as there 12 on front, with a deffrolla thats 14, or is it the ram which increases armour value by 2? (not even sure its an actual thing? - was in the rumours thread )
Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.
Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.
So long with the "unbound" "forge a narrative" "field whatever you like" approach...
Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.
I thought I could do like, one CAD from the main book with 1 HQ and 2 troops, then a CAD from the supplement with its 1 HQ and 2 troops?
Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.
I thought I could do like, one CAD from the main book with 1 HQ and 2 troops, then a CAD from the supplement with its 1 HQ and 2 troops?
I believe this is correct, what previous posters meant to say is that you can't put a relic from one codex or supplement on a character from another; I.E., you can't mix the Big Bosspole or whatever and Lucky Stixx on the same Warboss.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Speaking of codex and supplement mixing, if anything, I'd have my warboss and most of my army from Codex Orks and try to take a second detachment of Waaagh! Ghazgkull using a Big Mek on bike with the 4++ KFF relic. Suddenly, all my trukks and looted wagons start looking a little more survivable.
For the record the Lucky Stikk reroll thing would be very easy to not have be a problem. 3 rerolls a turn? ok, is the boss going to die? no? only reroll 2 saves. Is he going to die anyway? reroll all 3.
Especially if im facing a nasty opponent i have very good odds to kill, if im still alive without the rerolls i will hang onto them for the reroll on to hit or to wound and never use the 3rd no matter how good the odds are for me.
Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.
I thought I could do like, one CAD from the main book with 1 HQ and 2 troops, then a CAD from the supplement with its 1 HQ and 2 troops?
I believe this is correct, what previous posters meant to say is that you can't put a relic from one codex or supplement on a character from another; I.E., you can't mix the Big Bosspole or whatever and Lucky Stixx on the same Warboss.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Speaking of codex and supplement mixing, if anything, I'd have my warboss and most of my army from Codex Orks and try to take a second detachment of Waaagh! Ghazgkull using a Big Mek on bike with the 4++ KFF relic. Suddenly, all my trukks and looted wagons start looking a little more survivable.
If I want to push my points further I could take a second bike unit with normal big mek on bike + KFF to cover the wagon wall when the lighter vehicles split off, but I generally don't think BW's are in much danger now that they can purchase grot riggers and carry mini meks (from burnas or HQs).
If i were to mingle a big mek with sag into artillery it would have to be KMK spam. Yeah its blasts vs pi plates but bubblechucka is only effective enough to bring as a shock unit - as in the shock of HOLY CRAP YOURE SHOOTING 5 PI PLATES AT ME?!?! lol. They will most likely still wreck infantry, but nothing else barring damn good dice (since the AP needed would also need 5s or 6s to wound)
Now it seems to be even more restrictive, since you apparently can't take the supplement specials with anything other than the detachments and formations from that supplement, so you can't even have a combined arms detachment with the new special rules, relics and warlord traits.
I thought I could do like, one CAD from the main book with 1 HQ and 2 troops, then a CAD from the supplement with its 1 HQ and 2 troops?
It seems to say 'a detachment or formation from this book' in the blurry text from the supplement I've seen. To me, that would mean the supplement rules can only ever be used with it's own detachments and formations. Whether there is a detachment in there which is a decent substitute for the CAD remains to be seen, but from what I've seen of the supplement I'm not hopeful.
So since Nobz got worse, warbosses/warbikers got cheaper, how about a 4 hoursemen build ?
I was thinking go Double primary FoC, 3xbosses, 1 painboy, 1 warbiker unit w/ PK nob. What we don't have in survivability we make up for in volume... And you have 3 bosses & 1 PK Nob to Krunch things.
Here is something else cute. Bikes are relentless, Meks can take Bikes. Meks can also take SAG and/or KFF...and a bike.
Shock Attack Gun on a Bike CAN FIRE and then ASSAULT! I don't know why that blows my mind, but that's just crazy to me. Probably because the SAG can be pretty powerful, and on a bike it has a ton of mobility. If you give up the KFF, you can put 2 SAG Meks, a Warboss and a Painboy into a 15 strong bike unit for a Battleforged list. That's a very shooty, very deadly and pretty darn durable unit.
Since I was able to download the codex just now, a couple of speculations/unclarities to clear up:
- HQ mek is 15 points, his killsaw 30.
- Loota/Burna mek is 16 points, his killsaw 20!
- Big Mek in MA comes with KMB instead of TL-Shoota
- Big Mek in MA trades the KMB for a killsaw, not the PK - Big Mek in MA does not need to trade away anything for the KFF (without MA trades slugga)
- Painboy can take bike and BP, no Waaagh! banner or relics
- Nob upgrade is same points as before
- Units of more than 12 orks can still buy a trukk
- All Manz can take boss poles, cannot take Waaagh! Banner
- Snikrot's has fear, can still arrive from any board edge, his shroud replaces stealth
- Snikrot's shroud also works when deploying him turn 1.
- Trukk is 30 points
- Blitza and Burna bommer have BS3 for their shootas
- Blitza Bommer hits rear armor with shootas when rolling 10-12 for bomb drop
- Lootaz can have trukks
- Kustom Mega Slugga is S8 AP2 pistol, Get's hot!
- SAG kills ONLY the mek, not half your army
- SAG is S10 vortex
- None of the mek gunz state that the whole unit has to roll once for strength/ap - all other models with similar rules do!
- Tellporta-Blasta is 12", so it might potentially scatter back on the mek itself, instantly killing him.
- Failed repairs no longer shake the vehicle
- A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on a vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 Strength 10 AP4 hits in addition to the damage they normally suffer for the failed attack. Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests. Bye-bye good old friend -Exact wording Lukky Stikk:
All models in the bearer’s unit add +1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile (this is not cumulative with the bonus from a Waaagh! banner). In addition, the bearer can choose to re-roll any failed To Hit or To Wound rolls or saving throws that they make. However, should three or more of the re-rolls generate failed results in the same turn, the model is immediately removed as a casualty with no saving throws of any kind allowed. - Da Dead Shiney Shoota is twin-linked and only 5 points. Only hits friendly models within 6", can hit own unit. Awesome upgrade for KFF meks?
- Da Krunch hits again when your roll 11 or 12. You roll again for that hit, and keep getting hits until you don't roll 11 or 12. Fluff-wise this is a giant green fist comming out of the sky and punching the target unit.
- The Ork Warband formation (infinite Waaagh!s) also gets the Hammer of Wrath rule.
Will update first post after Germany has beaten the US soccer team
Dez wrote: Here is something else cute. Bikes are relentless, Meks can take Bikes. Meks can also take SAG and/or KFF...and a bike.
Shock Attack Gun on a Bike CAN FIRE and then ASSAULT! I don't know why that blows my mind, but that's just crazy to me. Probably because the SAG can be pretty powerful, and on a bike it has a ton of mobility. If you give up the KFF, you can put 2 SAG Meks, a Warboss and a Painboy into a 15 strong bike unit for a Battleforged list. That's a very shooty, very deadly and pretty darn durable unit.
I'm going to hold off considering the SAG until I can see it's rules, the extra firepower seems ok, but if think I'm going to need extra krunching CC power more.
Not sure if i'd want to put a mek on a bike for any other reason than a highly mobile and somewhat resilient KFF platform. SAG shoots across the table, and the Big Mek is just an average nob when looking at his stats so hes not that big of a threat in melee.
If you can still take the SAG and melee weapons worth shaking a dead grot at, that mek will be VERY expensive for a nob-statline. Plus the fear of shooting yourself if youre trying to assault afterwords, since youre probably ~7" away at this point and can EASILY have that pi plate fly back into your face.
Have to admit though, with jidmah's post that snakes only kill the mek now, putting a sag mek in an artillery unit sounds more and more tasty now. He can take mega and sag right? rather not dump the relic bike on a somewhat immobile unit.
Da Krunch lets you roll strength, scatter, etc again if you roll 11/12? i thought it just hit that same spot twice at S10. Thats potentially even nastier as you could technically have a 4-5 S10 pi plate luck streak lol
@SAG on a Bike, I don't use my Warbikes to charge I use them as gun platforms. It may not be the greatest unit, I don't know that but it is tactically interesting at the least.
You could put the Mek on a Bike in artillery as well, if you'd rather the higher toughness. I'm guessing if people are shooting at Artillery, they are shooting with higher strength weapons with low AP so it may not matter either way.
Jidmah wrote: - Blitza and Burna bommer have BS3 for their shootas
- Blitza Bommer hits rear armor with shootas when rolling 10-12 for bomb drop
When you say 'shootas', do you mean supa shootas (S6), big shootas (S5) or both?
Are you working from the English version or the German?
Big Shootas only, sorry. Accidently dropped the "big".
English. The fourth edition had so many translation errors, I had to get the English version later in order to proove to some blockheads that the actual rules work different. I'm not buying this codex twice.
Vineheart01 wrote:Have to admit though, with jidmah's post that snakes only kill the mek now, putting a sag mek in an artillery unit sounds more and more tasty now. He can take mega and sag right? rather not dump the relic bike on a somewhat immobile unit.
Da Krunch lets you roll strength, scatter, etc again if you roll 11/12? i thought it just hit that same spot twice at S10. Thats potentially even nastier as you could technically have a 4-5 S10 pi plate luck streak lol
MA Meks have PK/KMB base and can upgrade KMB to a killsaw (for armorbane and +1 attack) or any kind of shoota, can only take either Tellyporta Blasta or KFF in addition to that (plus character stuff, but no other weapons).
Da Krunch just hits again, no further scatter. Also stops when the target has been wiped out.
Actually scatch that. It says "resolve another attack", so that includes scatter. It's barrage by the way, so you can now snipe stuff with a green fist coming from the sky.
What's the deal with the Tellyporta Blasta anyway? What is it actually meant to do? Why is it called a Tellyporta Blasta when it doesn't seem to have anything to do with teleportation?
Perfect Organism wrote: What's the deal with the Tellyporta Blasta anyway? What is it actually meant to do? Why is it called a Tellyporta Blasta when it doesn't seem to have anything to do with teleportation?
It teleports the target directly to the Elemental Plane of Explosions.
Seriously though, a 12" range large blast weapon is crazy talk. Especially when it's ID for the big mek...
Jidmah wrote: It shoots a bubble that teleports the target in a random direction. On a roll of 6 you teleported it into the ground, killing it.
Oh is it a table thing? I heard it was S9 AP3 large blast or something like that.
It's 12" S8 Ap2 3" blast and causes instant death/automatic penetrates on a to wound/pen roll of 6. The regular S8 hit when it teleports people into the air (causing them to fall) or into the guy standing next to them. Luckily they spared us a cinemetic table this time.
Jidmah wrote: It's 12" S8 Ap2 3" blast and causes instant death/automatic penetrates on a to wound/pen roll of 6. The regular S8 hit when it teleports people into the air (causing them to fall) or into the guy standing next to them. Luckily they spared us a cinemetic table this time.
Ok I was just reading the new dex and if I use the ork specific FOC and I roll the warlord trait prophet of the waagghh! does that mean that boss is able to make the army pretty much fearless every time he calls a waagghh or is it just a one time thing?
still, unless its a fortune, it doesnt sound half bad. Small blasts are a lot less likely to nail your own unit at 12" than a large blast, even considering BS2. Also S8 AP2 is pretty nasty in its own right. Splats most characters.
Also Da Krunch just got even sexier. Barrage? Possible S10 pi plate barrage? Multiples of them (if lucky)? Good grief thats sick sounding lol
Orks just got a bit better or at least more options. In Waaaagh Ghazgul they have access to a 50pt Eternal Warrior, FNP, Relentless item. Access to a 20pt Fearless item. A 75pt 4+ KFF. A 40pt Powerklaw that can sacrifice all attacks for a single ID attack. A 20pt Two handed melee weapon that improves every round you kill a model by +1S -1AP starting at S+2 AP5. And a 30pt shooting weapon that has a random profile every time its fired.
First post updated after cross-checking every entry with the old and new codex.
tehinchman wrote:Ok I was just reading the new dex and if I use the ork specific FOC and I roll the warlord trait prophet of the waagghh! does that mean that boss is able to make the army pretty much fearless every time he calls a waagghh or is it just a one time thing?
Correct, starting turn 2 everything but gretchin will be fearless as long as your warlord stays allive. Note that, unlike Thrakkas old rule, it can also force fleeing units to regroup and pinned unit to get back up.
Vineheart01 wrote:still, unless its a fortune, it doesnt sound half bad. Small blasts are a lot less likely to nail your own unit at 12" than a large blast, even considering BS2.
Also S8 AP2 is pretty nasty in its own right. Splats most characters.
It's 25 points, but you can't have it at the same time as a KFF.
Also Da Krunch just got even sexier. Barrage? Possible S10 pi plate barrage? Multiples of them (if lucky)? Good grief thats sick sounding lol
You also get to paint your hand green and punch your opponent's models
Zagman wrote:Orks just got a bit better or at least more options. In Waaaagh Ghazgul they have access to a 50pt Eternal Warrior, FNP, Relentless item. Access to a 20pt Fearless item. A 75pt 4+ KFF. A 40pt Powerklaw that can sacrifice all attacks for a single ID attack. A 20pt Two handed melee weapon that improves every round you kill a model by +1S -1AP starting at S+2 AP5. And a 30pt shooting weapon that has a random profile every time its fired.
Eh. Most of those are overcosted and the strange nerf to mob rule, doesn't exactly make the suplement great.
Overall, I feel a lot of my gloom and doom has subsided. I'm liking a lot of these changes, even if they might not be all the rage. The biggest changes I'm good with are unlimited units of 'Ard Boyz. I can see this becomming a mandatory upgrade for Trukk Boyz, making them slightly less cost efficient, but keeping them from suffering too badly at the hands of the explosion. (Unless its Ap4? Better not be).
Also, I'm liking that the Mek is kind of taking the spotlight here. This may be biased, because I've been wanting to field a more walker based army. I already had a 6 pack of Kanz, but I'll end up buying one more set, so I can have some variety of gear. I'll be getting Morkanughts as well to free the obligatory Big Mek HQ slot and providing massive KFF overlap bubbles for my army, filling their guts with a couple Meks and Grot Riggers.
Then, my Boyz will be used more than ever, taking up the rear behind their mechy shield, while Tankbusta or Trukk Boyz scream up the field to detract fire from the Walkers for as long as possible, Warbosses abound with WAAAAGHS! shouted from the tops of their lungs.
I will admit I still will miss the old Cybork Body. But, what can one do? I suppose a 6+ FNP will have to do. The best sort of save our HQs or Nobz will get.
I don't think my actual list will change much. I've been playing Speed Freeks since the Armageddon source book came out and have used roughly the same list. I remember being really annoyed when the last ork codex came out and nerfed my burna boyz and took away skar boyz. But we adjust cause we're cunnin like Mork. We know the tricks to survive and win games with a 11 year old codex!
From what I've seen in the forums, I think Speed Freeks may have gotten a bit of a shot in the arm. Here's why:
1. Fearlessness lost- Wasn't a big issue for me. I run squads of 12 trukkers.so one hit and I was testing on around leadership 7 anyway. I'm used to running lists with a ton of targets that disappear when hit once..
2. Bikes cheaper. This will free up points for more trukks and bikes.
3. 7th Edition Vehicle Rules- Hey, we have av 10 vehicles here the new rules have to improve survivability a little.
4. Vehicles are scoring units. If I run 10 units in trukks. I have 20 scoring units!
5. Mount up- Many of the Ork Units have trukks as dedicated transport now.
I don't use Battlewagons, just trukks, deffkoptas, buggies, and bikes. Its all about blocking LoS to your vehicles you want to survive.I basically spam lots of stuff without extras to keep points down to buy more stuff. Granted, I don't play tourneys but i think there are some gems in the new codex that are getting me fired up to try out.
Its been 11 years since we Ork players got a codex. Some of us forget that a new codex requires some tweeking to get the machine moving again. My friends are dreading the new ork codex. I can't wait to shoot marines with a unit of flash gitz and on a die roll of 1-3 say "Sorry no armor save. How's it feel? That t-shirt save looks pretty good now huh?"
Saturday is Ork codex release day and my birthday. Its like a birthday in a birthday!
Ghazzie lost the auto-6" run for the army? And the +2 attacks on the charge? And the cybork invul, plus he can't call his WAUGH at any point AND it only lasts one player turn?
And gained nothing for the same number of points as before?
Man, was hoping I could still run him - woulda still taken him, if only for the 6" charge. What a bummer.
Phydox wrote: I don't think my actual list will change much. I've been playing Speed Freeks since the Armageddon source book came out and have used roughly the same list. I remember being really annoyed when the last ork codex came out and nerfed my burna boyz and took away skar boyz. But we adjust cause we're cunnin like Mork. We know the tricks to survive and win games with a 11 year old codex!
From what I've seen in the forums, I think Speed Freeks may have gotten a bit of a shot in the arm. Here's why:
1. Fearlessness lost- Wasn't a big issue for me. I run squads of 12 trukkers.so one hit and I was testing on around leadership 7 anyway. I'm used to running lists with a ton of targets that disappear when hit once..
2. Bikes cheaper. This will free up points for more trukks and bikes.
3. 7th Edition Vehicle Rules- Hey, we have av 10 vehicles here the new rules have to improve survivability a little.
4. Vehicles are scoring units. If I run 10 units in trukks. I have 20 scoring units!
5. Mount up- Many of the Ork Units have trukks as dedicated transport now.
I don't use Battlewagons, just trukks, deffkoptas, buggies, and bikes. Its all about blocking LoS to your vehicles you want to survive.I basically spam lots of stuff without extras to keep points down to buy more stuff. Granted, I don't play tourneys but i think there are some gems in the new codex that are getting me fired up to try out.
Its been 11 years since we Ork players got a codex. Some of us forget that a new codex requires some tweeking to get the machine moving again. My friends are dreading the new ork codex. I can't wait to shoot marines with a unit of flash gitz and on a die roll of 1-3 say "Sorry no armor save. How's it feel? That t-shirt save looks pretty good now huh?"
Saturday is Ork codex release day and my birthday. Its like a birthday in a birthday!
I'm starting to feel the mojo with this as well. I've always wanted a Walker army, and the Morkanaught was the shot in my own arm to get me to shell out some cash for my army. 2 large KFF bubbles to support my Kanz and my foot sloggers, while my Trukks run ahead and keep the heavy fire off my Boyz, with some Bikers not too far behind the Trukks.
@Phydox Im having your birthday two days before you get it :p.. edit btw outflanking skorcha buggies is a thing.
About using the ork formation.. can you use it 'inside' any other detachment type or do you treat it like a dataslate and literally have to take another detachment to get other toyz?
I would think if you are taking that formation its for green tide. The whole idea of trukks is turn two get out, waaagh, and assault. Waagh every turn is extra mobility for ground troops seeking combat on turn three if they didn't make in two.
If you want to trukk list I'd go for the ork detachment or CAD
mrfantastical wrote: There was one formation in the Ghazzy supplement at seemed cool. 5 Battlewagons. All BW get scout.
Too bad the deff rolla got nerfed, otherwise this formation would be amazing.
Nerf or not, that's still awesome as heck. Even if you don't get to use the Rolla much, that sudden pressure is incredible. No one is going to want 5 BW suddenly right beside them. It wil either force them to move, or hunker further and focus their shots on something else. Any shots not aimed at my sloggers is perfect. And even if they pop those wagons, you have 100 Boyz jumping out ready to krump (give or take a few losses if the wagons happen to expolode)
Wonder what kind of combinations you can have with Imperial Guard, aka "Blood Axes, who're all weedy instead of properly Ork 'Ard." ... Yeah, you have the bit about not deploying within a foot of one another, and the "You Kunnin' Gits... watchin' you!" 1/6 roll thingy, but...
mrfantastical wrote: Also from what I remember, Ghazzy's Waaagh did a lot of stuff, but it allowed SnP units to RUN!
So that's not bad at all.
Which is pretty decent, but I hope Ghazzy is better than we initially hoped. Word on the street now is he lost a lot of stuff, but didn't gain a whole lot in return, with no discount to points either. :(
The scouting BW's sounds delightful! Back it up with outflanking buggies and Snikrot to really force your opponent to where you want them! Of course if you are playing vs a Drop Pod list...
mrfantastical wrote: There was one formation in the Ghazzy supplement at seemed cool. 5 Battlewagons. All BW get scout.
Too bad the deff rolla got nerfed, otherwise this formation would be amazing.
Do you need to have 5 battlewagons for that? Or can you run it with 3 or 4? Running 5 at 1500 is cutting it close and you wont be able to fit much else (plus I only have 4 BWs :()
Hey guys. I bought my first ork units in 6th edition, about 2 weeks before 7th. and I have just been buying models on ebay/at my flgs. I was hoping to post what I have accumulated and get a little help figuring out what I should play now and in the future, seeing as the new codex is coming out aka out already. I currently own:
35 choppa boyz from the AOBR set - Could be shootas by proxy
15 shoota boys
2 rokkit big guns
5 big shootas
6 nobs
5 loota/burna
5 stormboyz
1 deff dread
1 big mek
federali619 wrote: Hey guys. I bought my first ork units in 6th edition, about 2 weeks before 7th. and I have just been buying models on ebay/at my flgs. I was hoping to post what I have accumulated and get a little help figuring out what I should play now and in the future, seeing as the new codex is coming out aka out already. I currently own:
35 choppa boyz from the AOBR set - Could be shootas by proxy
15 shoota boys
2 rokkit big guns
5 big shootas
6 nobs
5 loota/burna
5 stormboyz
1 deff dread
1 big mek
Thanks!
Boyz! And lots of em! Even with the small price hike for Shoota Boyz, I feel they will still be staple. Plus, the more bodies you have, the better in most cases...though, It depends on what sort of army you're trying to build. I personally love CC, despite it having been a bad option before. With us getting some nice buffs to our movement options, it could be viable for us again. So...again, Boyz!
Lootas will still be a solid option, despite them hogging up a slot for our Heavy Support, but they are usually just so darn good it's hard not to take them. The str 7 shots really put people on edge. Just be aware, the Lootas will probably be target numero uno, depending on what else you bring. An Aegies Defense Line can help Lootas survive a bit more by going to ground if they have too, and getting a decent cover save in the process. Grots work wonders if you use the turret that comes with it. Any powerful weapon at Grot BS3 is a godsend for us.
I personally love Walkers, despite their bad reputation. If you go Walkers, you'll want Meks. The Big Mek now will be still decent, with his 5++ saves, giving Walkers more life on the table.
Bikes...Bikes are incredible, despite their changes this edition. They are cheaper in points, and are still pretty durable. You want CC fast, you send Bikes to do the job. Roar up the table with their huge movment, and watch your opponent frown in annoyance. Always fun!
Weirdboyz can now fire off some crazy cool Witchfires, giving us some other high damage output, albeit a little more gimmicky. I'm excited for the changes to these guys the most. Gives me a reason to put them on the table again! But, they do take HQ slots too...
But again, this all boils down to what YOU want your army to do.
federali619 wrote: Hey guys. I bought my first ork units in 6th edition, about 2 weeks before 7th. and I have just been buying models on ebay/at my flgs. I was hoping to post what I have accumulated and get a little help figuring out what I should play now and in the future, seeing as the new codex is coming out aka out already. I currently own:
35 choppa boyz from the AOBR set - Could be shootas by proxy
15 shoota boys
2 rokkit big guns
5 big shootas
6 nobs
5 loota/burna
5 stormboyz
1 deff dread
1 big mek
Thanks!
Right now I would say more boyz, some Battlewagons, bikes and big gunz (though you can easily scratch build these). I dont have the codex right now so I cant say for sure what is working.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
zachwho wrote: when does the ghaz supplement release? with faction codex?
I believe a week after unless you got the warboss edition.
Boyz! And lots of em! Even with the small price hike for Shoota Boyz, I feel they will still be staple. Plus, the more bodies you have, the better in most cases...though, It depends on what sort of army you're trying to build. I personally love CC, despite it having been a bad option before. With us getting some nice buffs to our movement options, it could be viable for us again. So...again, Boyz!
Lootas will still be a solid option, despite them hogging up a slot for our Heavy Support, but they are usually just so darn good it's hard not to take them. The str 7 shots really put people on edge. Just be aware, the Lootas will probably be target numero uno, depending on what else you bring. An Aegies Defense Line can help Lootas survive a bit more by going to ground if they have too, and getting a decent cover save in the process. Grots work wonders if you use the turret that comes with it. Any powerful weapon at Grot BS3 is a godsend for us.
I personally love Walkers, despite their bad reputation. If you go Walkers, you'll want Meks. The Big Mek now will be still decent, with his 5++ saves, giving Walkers more life on the table.
Bikes...Bikes are incredible, despite their changes this edition. They are cheaper in points, and are still pretty durable. You want CC fast, you send Bikes to do the job. Roar up the table with their huge movment, and watch your opponent frown in annoyance. Always fun!
Weirdboyz can now fire off some crazy cool Witchfires, giving us some other high damage output, albeit a little more gimmicky. I'm excited for the changes to these guys the most. Gives me a reason to put them on the table again! But, they do take HQ slots too...
But again, this all boils down to what YOU want your army to do.
Thanks a lot for your reply. sounds like i need to buy some more units! I am hoping to field a decent 1k point army this weekend. having never actually played a full game, im sure ill make mistakes.
Boyz! And lots of em! Even with the small price hike for Shoota Boyz, I feel they will still be staple. Plus, the more bodies you have, the better in most cases...though, It depends on what sort of army you're trying to build. I personally love CC, despite it having been a bad option before. With us getting some nice buffs to our movement options, it could be viable for us again. So...again, Boyz!
Lootas will still be a solid option, despite them hogging up a slot for our Heavy Support, but they are usually just so darn good it's hard not to take them. The str 7 shots really put people on edge. Just be aware, the Lootas will probably be target numero uno, depending on what else you bring. An Aegies Defense Line can help Lootas survive a bit more by going to ground if they have too, and getting a decent cover save in the process. Grots work wonders if you use the turret that comes with it. Any powerful weapon at Grot BS3 is a godsend for us.
I personally love Walkers, despite their bad reputation. If you go Walkers, you'll want Meks. The Big Mek now will be still decent, with his 5++ saves, giving Walkers more life on the table.
Bikes...Bikes are incredible, despite their changes this edition. They are cheaper in points, and are still pretty durable. You want CC fast, you send Bikes to do the job. Roar up the table with their huge movment, and watch your opponent frown in annoyance. Always fun!
Weirdboyz can now fire off some crazy cool Witchfires, giving us some other high damage output, albeit a little more gimmicky. I'm excited for the changes to these guys the most. Gives me a reason to put them on the table again! But, they do take HQ slots too...
But again, this all boils down to what YOU want your army to do.
Thanks a lot for your reply. sounds like i need to buy some more units! I am hoping to field a decent 1k point army this weekend. having never actually played a full game, im sure ill make mistakes.
Oh, of course you will! But every mistake, every loss is just another learning experience. Take em in stride. Orks don't have high win ratios from most games I've played and seen, but they are definitely the most FUN. IMHO.
you will, take it in stride though, learn from the beatings lol.
you'll have a lot of fun, remember play to win, but have fun regardless.
Automatically Appended Next Post: also, never "scoop" (quit) unless its to quickly start another game. let the game teach you, you'll learn more playing to the last man than quiting because your favorite unit got blown up.
mrfantastical wrote: There was one formation in the Ghazzy supplement at seemed cool. 5 Battlewagons. All BW get scout.
Too bad the deff rolla got nerfed, otherwise this formation would be amazing.
Do you need to have 5 battlewagons for that? Or can you run it with 3 or 4? Running 5 at 1500 is cutting it close and you wont be able to fit much else (plus I only have 4 BWs :()
Must have 5.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
zachwho wrote: when does the ghaz supplement release? with faction codex?
Right now it's only in the Ork codex limited edition, which drops Saturday.
There have been a number of questions on this thread re limitations on battlewagons when taken as dedicated transports.
Both trukks and battlewagons have separate unit entries just like every other unit (so yes, you can take an empty trukk as a fast attack choice should you really really want to), and neither mentions any limitations when taken as dedicated transports.
If a unit can select a dedicated transport, that is mentioned in their unit entry. Interestingly, there seems to be nothing to stop a unit selecting a transport it can't fit into - e.g. a 30-strong boyz unit could select a trukk, even though the trukk can only carry 12, although they can't then board it (until there's only 12 of them left alive ) - suppose this _might_ be useful as cover for advancing troops perhaps?
Clang wrote: There have been a number of questions on this thread re limitations on battlewagons when taken as dedicated transports.
Both trukks and battlewagons have separate unit entries just like every other unit (so yes, you can take an empty trukk as a fast attack choice should you really really want to), and neither mentions any limitations when taken as dedicated transports.
If a unit can select a dedicated transport, that is mentioned in their unit entry. Interestingly, there seems to be nothing to stop a unit selecting a transport it can't fit into - e.g. a 30-strong boyz unit could select a trukk, even though the trukk can only carry 12, although they can't then board it (until there's only 12 of them left alive ) - suppose this _might_ be useful as cover for advancing troops perhaps?
I'm pretty sure none of that is correct :I Just seems to be taking rules out of context. Though I'd totally take barebones Trukks just for moveable cover.
Vineheart01 wrote: 5 bw? is that even possible without going to a massive game? unless you want to ONLY field BW lol
Five battlewagons with upgrades is 700-800 points. Big Mek on bike with a KFF and a small bike bodyguard is another 200 or so. Leaves you about 900 point for stuff to put in the wagons at 1,850. Yeah, your entire army is basically one big block, but it's a block which could manage a first turn charge with up to a hundred boys and will be deep into the enemy deployment zone by turn 2. It's an all-or-nothing strategy, but if you can make it work, it's going to just wipe out most gunline builds.
little bit of a big post - can skip to after the dashed line for my end thought and questions, Konfuzed Mek 'ere; wonderin' wat des chopshops should be makin'!
Just read through the pages of the rumours thread i hadn't caught up with.... sooo much doom and gloom! was a waste of a good 30 minutes
Anyways, I was hoping I could get some opinions on some things ive been mulling over;
Dred list 2x morkanaughts
1x Mega dred (from IA8)
3x deff dreds (from IA8)
This is the core id like to start with, i really enjoy making mech models and have fantasied about a walker based force for ages. However what should I look to add? the morka's bring the KFF and KMK, along with their rokkits and KMB, so there pretty AT as far as i can see. However, if im running the dreds as CC dreds then they will be running every turn, therefore not benefiting from the KFF. So i can potentially drop 1 KFF if i wished to, as 1 KFF could cover my three walkers who have the potential to shoot.
What ive been considering is comparing these 3; I know they aren't the same slots, but to me they appear to take similar(ish) roles.
Killakanz - 11,11,10 (2HP), 50 pts base (i think) with grotzooka at 5pts, S7 AP2 in combat, BS3, panic rule
Buggies - 10,10,10 (2HP), 25 pts base, BS2, can get outflank
Grot tank - 10,10,10 (2HP), 30 pts base with slightly higher priced weapons +10 grotzooka, BS3, 5+ invun save.
Kanz - So to me the classic walker army would typically take kanz, They have some nice attacks in CC (even if its a nerf from the DCCW) slightly higher armour value and therefore not susceptible to bolter fire, BS3 is decent. However, panic rule could cause issues and the fact is it seems quite pricey at 50 pts considering its only firing 1 rokkit etc.
Buggies - while not exactly the same as kanz, i feel in the new dex they offer almost the same role, or can fill that role. they have only AV 10, so can be boltered down. they have BS2 and not BS3, but they have TL weapons instead (just cant take grotzooka). So at 25 pts I could field 2 instead of a kan. They dont have panic and can gain outflank - although in this situation i probably wouldn't be using it. They are also more mobile, but obviously bring no CC capabilities. They can jink?
Grot tank - AV 10 again so not quite as durable as the kanz, but come with a built in 5+ invun save, which would be provided by the KFF morka, but now i dont have to worry about being within the 6" bubble. a little more pricey at 30 pts for the base model and then weapons on top. rokkits are 15 pts, which makes them 45, grotzooka at 10 pts. BS3, with 2D6 movement but can always shoot.
So it just seems to me that the kanz are a little pricey for the amount of shots I would get out of them each turn. They are slightly more durable and have CC capabilities, which the other two obviously completely lack. So overall fill a more general and All-comers role, but I have 3 deff dreds running for CC and the kanz wouldn't arrive for a fair while? unless i give them grotzookas and then run them in T1, for shooting T2?
Grot tanks seem pretty good, again a little pricey if i was going with a rokkit loadout, but reasonable if loaded with grotzookas. movement little unpredictable, but still reasonably mobile at average 7". They also have the 5++, which is a nice bonus, as i wouldn't have to sit near them with a KFF. I can also bring them and use up a elites slot and not a heavy slot. The buggies however seem extremely pts efficient for the rokkit loadout, with no pts cost increase for the weapon swap, extremely mobile and i can field quite a few squadrons. So at this point im thinking that both the grot tanks and buggies seem superior in a gun platform point of view, providing more fire power per points cost at the sacrifice of the armour 11 and CC.
What do you guys think?
are kanz worth it?
Am I making the wrong sort of unit comparisons?
I could potentially field a bit of all these units or say 2, so a kan squad and say some buggies, looking for some experienced advice as ive never ran a walker list and im eager to get converting scratchbuilding but didn't want to make something I then feel is a really weak link and gets shelved (as it takes ages for me to make stuff and get it on the tabletop - need to be efficient )
Fxeni wrote: Ghazzie lost the auto-6" run for the army? And the +2 attacks on the charge? And the cybork invul, plus he can't call his WAUGH at any point AND it only lasts one player turn?
And gained nothing for the same number of points as before?
Man, was hoping I could still run him - woulda still taken him, if only for the 6" charge. What a bummer.
His Waaagh still lasts until your next turn, and due to his Warlord Trait also still gives fearless for both player turns. Otherwise, yes, he got nerfed pretty bad.
Characters being able to take Waaagh! banners was a false rumor. The only way to get a Waaagh! banner outside of a unit of nobz is the Lukky Stikk - which honestly is so good that you should never build a warboss without one.
mrfantastical wrote: Also from what I remember, Ghazzy's Waaagh did a lot of stuff, but it allowed SnP units to RUN!
So that's not bad at all.
Only does that for his own unit now, as described in the first post. In my opinion there is little reason to field Thrakka now, even if he doesn't take up a HQ slot.
Melevolence wrote:
Clang wrote: There have been a number of questions on this thread re limitations on battlewagons when taken as dedicated transports.
Both trukks and battlewagons have separate unit entries just like every other unit (so yes, you can take an empty trukk as a fast attack choice should you really really want to), and neither mentions any limitations when taken as dedicated transports.
If a unit can select a dedicated transport, that is mentioned in their unit entry. Interestingly, there seems to be nothing to stop a unit selecting a transport it can't fit into - e.g. a 30-strong boyz unit could select a trukk, even though the trukk can only carry 12, although they can't then board it (until there's only 12 of them left alive ) - suppose this _might_ be useful as cover for advancing troops perhaps?
I'm pretty sure none of that is correct :I Just seems to be taking rules out of context. Though I'd totally take barebones Trukks just for moveable cover.
But it is. In regular combined arms detachments the trukks you by for your 30 boyz would even gain objective secured. Put them in reserves and drive them onto objectives. At worst, they are driving bombs, causing huge S4 explosions. Quit a steal for 30 points - style point for modeling your trukks a bomb-squiggoths.
I also just checked the codex, trukk are a fast attack choice, so you can buy a solo trukk to drive your weirdboy around or whatever. I'll update it in the first post.
Perfect Organism wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote: 5 bw? is that even possible without going to a massive game? unless you want to ONLY field BW lol
Five battlewagons with upgrades is 700-800 points. Big Mek on bike with a KFF and a small bike bodyguard is another 200 or so. Leaves you about 900 point for stuff to put in the wagons at 1,850. Yeah, your entire army is basically one big block, but it's a block which could manage a first turn charge with up to a hundred boys and will be deep into the enemy deployment zone by turn 2. It's an all-or-nothing strategy, but if you can make it work, it's going to just wipe out most gunline builds.
You don't really need any upgrade beside ram and planks though. Weapon destroyed is not happening a lot so, it's 130 per wagon (110+5+15). Add 20 slugga boyz to each and you've got 1250 points. Note that these detachments only check for characters on a mob rule roll of 1, so nobz aren't exactly needed.
federali619 wrote: Hey guys. I bought my first ork units in 6th edition, about 2 weeks before 7th. and I have just been buying models on ebay/at my flgs. I was hoping to post what I have accumulated and get a little help figuring out what I should play now and in the future, seeing as the new codex is coming out aka out already. I currently own:
35 choppa boyz from the AOBR set - Could be shootas by proxy
15 shoota boys
2 rokkit big guns
5 big shootas
6 nobs
5 loota/burna
5 stormboyz
1 deff dread
1 big mek
Thanks!
Your collection isn't exactly ready for a 1000 points game, you'd have to stretch your models pretty thin to get there. Try convincing your opponent to play 750, so you could play something like this:
HQ Big Mek, KFF, Da Dead Shiney Shoota (80)
Troops 20 Shootaz boyz, Nob, PK, boss pole, shoota, Big Mek goes here. (180)
(proxy big shootaz shoota boyz, non-ork players can't tell the difference anyways)
20 Slugga boyz, Nob, PK, boss pole (160)
20 Slugga boyz, Nob, PK, boss pole (160)
(proxy storm boyz or burnaz as more sluggas)
Heavy Support Deff Dread, 2 Skorchas, Grot Riggers (100)
5 Lootaz (70)
If your opponent insists on 1000 points, you can add 'eavy armor to all your boyz and get 'eavy armor for your mek. That army would a lot worse than a 1000 point army from most other factions, it's a common trap for new ork players to fall into.
little bit of a big post - can skip to after the dashed line for my end thought and questions, Konfuzed Mek 'ere; wonderin' wat des chopshops should be makin'!
Just read through the pages of the rumours thread i hadn't caught up with.... sooo much doom and gloom! was a waste of a good 30 minutes
Anyways, I was hoping I could get some opinions on some things ive been mulling over;
Dred list 2x morkanaughts
1x Mega dred (from IA8)
3x deff dreds (from IA8)
This is the core id like to start with, i really enjoy making mech models and have fantasied about a walker based force for ages. However what should I look to add? the morka's bring the KFF and KMK, along with their rokkits and KMB, so there pretty AT as far as i can see. However, if im running the dreds as CC dreds then they will be running every turn, therefore not benefiting from the KFF. So i can potentially drop 1 KFF if i wished to, as 1 KFF could cover my three walkers who have the potential to shoot.
I've been seeing a lot of people want to to a Dread mob army and I feel I must point something out because I think a lot of people are missing a crucial bit of information. in a Dreadmob list you must take a minimum of one unit of spanna boys, can't just have a deff dread squadron as your one troops choice.
Solar Shock wrote: What do you guys think?
are kanz worth it?
Am I making the wrong sort of unit comparisons?
If your whole army is torn appart by your deff dreads running away, don't run them away? Give the some shooting and keep them with the nauts and kanz. Deff dreads also increase the chance of Kanz passing their test by 1, so a single deff dread is enough to keep them save until they drop below 3 walkers.
In addition, failing panic tests just shakes them - they can still move and assault as normal. However, they would be unable to shoot their grotzookas, so maybe rokkits are a better choice?
I also just checked 7th edition rules, and it appears that the deff dread no longer gains additional attacks from having four close combat weapons, so there is no reason to actually buy the four PKs. However, a barebone Deff Dread now has four attacks (five on the charge) instead of three. Rokkits are free, so you could just drop the deff dreads to 80 points a piece.
I'll update the first post to reflect that.
Jidmah wrote: I also just checked 7th edition rules, and it appears that the deff dread no longer gains additional attacks from having four close combat weapons, so there is no reason to actually buy the four PKs. However, a barebone Deff Dread now has four attacks (five on the charge) instead of three. Rokkits are free, so you could just drop the deff dreads to 80 points a piece.
My copy of the rules says:
"If a Walker is armed with two or more Melee weapons, it gains +1 bonus Attack for each additional weapon after the first. Unlike other models, this is not limited to a single bonus Attack, so a Walker with three Melee weapons would have 2 bonus Attacks."
Third paragraph under the heading 'WALKERS AND ASSAULTS'.
I've been seeing a lot of people want to to a Dread mob army and I feel I must point something out because I think a lot of people are missing a crucial bit of information. in a Dreadmob list you must take a minimum of one unit of spanna boys, can't just have a deff dread squadron as your one troops choice.
Where is this? in IA8? i cant find it, page?
Hmm that is not a problem tbh anyway, as I was planning on bringing some boys anyways, the dred list wasn't intended to be a walker only list, its just I love converting walkers with monsterously crazy weapons Id bring the spanna boys and the HQ I need, so most likely a painboss, who can go with the squad directly. then il probably give them a trukk as transport and either keep them backfield as a sort of back-up for where its needed, or il push them forward.
If your whole army is torn appart by your deff dreads running away, don't run them away?
Give the some shooting and keep them with the nauts and kanz. Deff dreads also increase the chance of Kanz passing their test by 1, so a single deff dread is enough to keep them save until they drop below 3 walkers.
In addition, failing panic tests just shakes them - they can still move and assault as normal. However, they would be unable to shoot their grotzookas, so maybe rokkits are a better choice?
I also just checked 7th edition rules, and it appears that the deff dread no longer gains additional attacks from having four close combat weapons, so there is no reason to actually buy the four PKs. However, a barebone Deff Dread now has four attacks (five on the charge) instead of three. Rokkits are free, so you could just drop the deff dreads to 80 points a piece.
I'll update the first post to reflect that
It wasn't really that i thought the dreds running was an issue it was more that running them goes against the idea of a KFF and the panic rule. Both of those would suggest to keep them close by. But I am not too worried about the panic test, as you said, its only shaken. With 3 dreds, all being in their own squads or in two squads, i can always keep one back for shooting while two others rush ahead. Nice catch on the ruling though, being 4(5) on charge is really nice considering like you said,no point getting extra CCW, but surely that must be a mistake? if they can take extra CCW's in the new dex for +pts then they would have to give a benefit? else its simply someone not thinking it through at GW? I like the idea of a rokkit one,perhaps big shootas even, considering the BS2.
I think then a unit of 6 Kanz with grotzookas is nice, thats still 12 pi plates a turn once in range. So turn 1 run them with the two dreds that are running, my spanna boys boys too possibly. Then once in range they can start laying down the hurt. Although 12 pi plates all at one target seems like a lot of overkill. Sure il probably wipe whatever it was, but with two sets of 3 (so 6 pi plates) id be able to shoot 2 targets up.
I am then thinking il fill the rest of points up with grots (for cheap OS troops) who I will use to simply flood the board, acting as charge shields perhaps, and simply distractions. I mean if someone chooses to shoot up my grots instead of my kanz or dreds then thats all gravy Possibly il then fit in some buggies if I fancy it. gona do a rough estimate:
Thats 1250ish for this core section, I can then bring some HQ's as needed and fill the rest as i like, aiming for 1850 would leave me 600 pts which seems plenty for some. Especially if I use grots. plus it would look hilarious having tonnes of tiny grots running riot under all those walkers feet
Jidmah wrote: I also just checked 7th edition rules, and it appears that the deff dread no longer gains additional attacks from having four close combat weapons, so there is no reason to actually buy the four PKs. However, a barebone Deff Dread now has four attacks (five on the charge) instead of three. Rokkits are free, so you could just drop the deff dreads to 80 points a piece.
My copy of the rules says:
"If a Walker is armed with two or more Melee weapons, it gains +1 bonus Attack for each additional weapon after the first. Unlike other models, this is not limited to a single bonus Attack, so a Walker with three Melee weapons would have 2 bonus Attacks."
Third paragraph under the heading 'WALKERS AND ASSAULTS'.
Hah, you're right! In that case, our deff dread has been buffed by getting +1 attack
So a Dread with four klaws now has EIGHT attacks on the charge? A pack of those should be able to take down pretty much anything in the game if they can reach it.
Perfect Organism wrote: So a Dread with four klaws now has EIGHT attacks on the charge? A pack of those should be able to take down pretty much anything in the game if they can reach it.
so 4(5) + 4 CCW's so +3 attacks? yeh that is nasty!
ive never run dreds, whats there optimum targets? - vehicles, MC's, weak infantry units?
and what should I avoid? - dedicated CC units? or can I also give these a good bashing?
With the new Mob Rule I think that MANZ are going to really shine in this dex.
I've always liked running the MANZ missile (3 Manz, Trukk) and between the point reduction of the Trukk, the assault move gain of the Boarding Ramp, and the overall boost to assaulting units in cover (now just -2 movement) they are looking like a great option.
The Mob rule now gives this unit a fighting chance to stay on the board, and once they get in combat they are unlikely to go anywhere until their enemies are just dead. Even a bad roll on the Mob Chart is unlikely to do a wound to them.
The 2x CCW thing looks great as well, not sure what the points cost is like but you're still looking at a 175 ish unit that rocks a buttload of S8/9 AP2 attacks that can also move 24" a turn and has considerable assault threat range from T2 onwards.
Sure the Trukks can get shot to bits, but with the now more ubiquitous cover saves in 7th they have a good chance to survive T1.
Switching PK and TL-Shoota for twin Kill-Saws is 10 points and is done on a per-model base. So you can switch two of your MANz to killsaws and keep another three at PKs. It's not like many vehicles are going to survive ten S9 AP2 armorbane attacks.
I've been seeing a lot of people want to to a Dread mob army and I feel I must point something out because I think a lot of people are missing a crucial bit of information. in a Dreadmob list you must take a minimum of one unit of spanna boys, can't just have a deff dread squadron as your one troops choice.
Where is this? in IA8? i cant find it, page?
Hmm that is not a problem tbh anyway, as I was planning on bringing some boys anyways, the dred list wasn't intended to be a walker only list, its just I love converting walkers with monsterously crazy weapons Id bring the spanna boys and the HQ I need, so most likely a painboss, who can go with the squad directly. then il probably give them a trukk as transport and either keep them backfield as a sort of back-up for where its needed, or il push them forward.
On pg 132 their unit entry
1+ Spanna Boyz mob
*bunch of fluff.....*NOTE: An Ork Dread Mob list army must contain at least 1 Spanna Boyz mob
More Dakka wrote: With the new Mob Rule I think that MANZ are going to really shine in this dex.
I've always liked running the MANZ missile (3 Manz, Trukk) and between the point reduction of the Trukk, the assault move gain of the Boarding Ramp, and the overall boost to assaulting units in cover (now just -2 movement) they are looking like a great option.
The Mob rule now gives this unit a fighting chance to stay on the board, and once they get in combat they are unlikely to go anywhere until their enemies are just dead. Even a bad roll on the Mob Chart is unlikely to do a wound to them.
I couldn't agree more. MANZ missiles have always been fun to run too, such a deadly little unit. a few MANz missiles, get into range, disembark, waaaaagh! run, assault (with 2+ for boarding plank), I amassuming this is ok? as your still technically assaulting out of the vehicle yeh? Thats a crazy charge range.
The 2x CCW thing looks great as well, not sure what the points cost is like but you're still looking at a 175 ish unit that rocks a buttload of S8/9 AP2 attacks that can also move 24" a turn and has considerable assault threat range from T2 onwards.
are you referring to the dreds here? confused as to the 24" moving? Ahh nah your still on about MANz, gotcha! Are the dual killsaws even really that needed? as mentioned, not much survives armourbane PKs, but not much survives PK's as it is vehicle wise
thanks for the pg ref. ive realised with double FOC im not too worried about them being IA8 now. As with IA8 it says that even though there troops they are specifically non-scoring and non-denial. Which if i was playing fairly i would with 7th ed transfer that and say that they aren't OS (basically no bonus for being troops, so may as well bring as heavy)
Im unsure about stormboys, seen alot of complaining about the fact that they take wounds when using the 2D6 run function, although my biggest gripe is zagstruk no longer allowing DS charge, as thats why i thought he was cool and totally orky. He don't give a damn about coming down on the enemy, Dem 'umies nice an' squishy, perfect ork landin' pads.
Perfect Organism wrote: So a Dread with four klaws now has EIGHT attacks on the charge? A pack of those should be able to take down pretty much anything in the game if they can reach it.
Profile has three attacks. Base Dread has 2 PKs, so +1 Buy two more for 10 pts each, +2 Charge, +1 Hammer of Wrath would be the eight.
Total of one S5 AP- attack at I10, followed by seven S10 AP2 attacks at I2.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AdeptSister wrote:Question:
Didn't Stormboyz get really good with the Waaagh? A group of 30 have a crazy charge range. How much would that cost kitted out?
Full unit of 30 including nob, PK and BP is 310 points. 375 if you add Zagstruk.
zachwho wrote:with that formation in the codex, you're restricted to only those units? you can't take transports?
Dedicated transports yes, transports from heavy support slots, no. So you can add trukks for boyz and nobz/MANz and/or a battlewagon for nobz/Manz. Not battlewagons for boyz or looted wagons for anyone.
Downside to dredds is i think the 3man MANz missile in trukk is more durable and about the same cost iirclol. AV12 is just stupid easy to pop. I was really hoping for either some way to field more dredds or some way to get them across the table faster. Pretty much every gun that will splat a MAN and pen his armor has pretty good odds to pop a dredd too. Also the MANz missile would be an Elite choice, which is kinda void of use atm if you dont want tankbustas. Frees up heavy slots.
So bit of a memory jog from yesterday's breif look at the Ghazzy Waaagh Supplement:
1) There was a dread mob formation
* unit gains hammer of wrath that inflicts d3 wounds
*requires: 1 Big Mek, 1 Painboy, 2 Nauts, 3 deff dreds, 3 x 3 model unit of killa kanz
2) 3x 5 model MegaNob formation (all meganobz gain +1 WS, fear, & fearless)
3) there was a HQ formation
*requires: Ghazzy, grotznik, 1 big Mek, 2 warbosses, 1 unit of nobz
*all models in unit must deploy together
*models with IC cannot join or leave the unit
*as long as Waaagh banner is still alive all models in unit are fearless! and have +1 WS *friendly Ork models within 12" reroll failed morale & pinning
*both Ork warbosses have +1WS
*make 2 rolls on Waaagh Ghazghull warlord traits (reroll duplicates) and apply both to Ghazzy
4) 5 Battlewagons (all battlewagons gain scout)
*all Battlewagons must have rams or deff rollas
*embarked units cannot charge if they go first
5) da vulcha boyz.
*requires 3 units of stormboyz & boss zagstruck
*all units must start in reserves and must arrive via deepstrike
*all hammer of wraith attacks gain shred
*may form all units into one big mob. Counts as 3 units for VP purposes when destroyed
6) snikrott formation
*requires snikrott! & 4 units of kommandos
*all units have the stealth rule replaced with shroud until the turn after they arrive
*snikrott must join one unit
*only make one roll for reserves for all units in formation
*all units in formation enter same board edge
*controlling player determines table edge
*on the turn they arrive if a unit doesn't shoot, it may reroll failed cover saves
7) greentide formation
(Covered previously)
I feel really upset about the loss of having a variety of playstyles from the new codex. However, the Ghazzy supplement seems to open up a lot of new avenues that we didn't have before. I don't know how formations work (whether they are apoc only, or if you can use this in casual games), but I think they will make a huge impact.
Formations are definitely not "Apoc only". You know there's really nothing that's "Apoc only" anymore right? It's all just 40k these days. The stompa superheavy is actually in the codex now, apparently, if you needed any more proof.
Building a battleforged list work like this in 7th:
1) Pick a faction (in our case: Orks)
2) Pick a detachment, fill it with at least the mandatory units and any optional units you want.
3) Add more detachments until you're out of points. One type of detachment can be chosen multiple times.
4) Select one detachment to be your primary detachment.
5) Pick a warlord from that detachment.
Possible types of detachment are:
1) Combined Arms Detachment (short CAD): Mostly know as the old FOC. All units must be part of your faction (Codex or Supplement). CAD troops get objective secured and a warlord from this detachment can reroll his warlord trait.
2) Allied Detachment: Pretty much 6th's allied FOC, may only contain units from one faction different from your primary detachment. So no allying dread mob or Waaagh! Ghazghkull to save troops. Troops from this detachment have objective secured, no matter how much they like you. So guardsmen can now capture objectives for you. Cannot pick warlord from this detachment.
3) Ork Horde Detachment: Mandatory 1 HQ 3 Troops, can get an additional 2 HQ 6 Troops 3 FA 3 Elite 3 HS 1 LoW 1 Fortification. Warlord from this detachment can reroll his warlord trait. Units in this detachment get HoW when 10 or more models charge 10".
4) Pick a formation. You pay the points for the models in the formation as normal, plus formation cost where applicable and gain all special rules of that formation. Unless stated otherwise, warlord can come from formations.
So in theory, it's possible to build an army that can have a CAD, an ork horde detachment, an allied detachment and two formations.
Jidmah, thanks for starting this thread, keeping things constructive and positive, and updating the summary on Page 1. Very much appreciated
One small caveat to "Da Dead Shiny Shoota"...you have to roll a separate D6 for every miss following the TL rerollls (not just misses that are 1's) and on each roll of 1 you hit a friendly unit within 6" of the targeted unit
Solar Shock wrote: ive never run dreds, whats there optimum targets? - vehicles, MC's, weak infantry units?
and what should I avoid? - dedicated CC units? or can I also give these a good bashing?
Pretty much anything you can get your klaws on, really. The only units which are a real threat are those who can spam melta-bombs (i.e. fire dragons, guard demolition veterans and tankbustas), really butch monstrous creatures and super-heavy walkers. A 'tarpit' unit of fearless light infantry will hold you up, but dreads are cheap enough that it doesn't really matter. The real issue is actually getting close to a target.
Grot tank - AV 10 again so not quite as durable as the kanz, but come with a built in 5+ invun save, which would be provided by the KFF morka, but now i dont have to worry about being within the 6" bubble. a little more pricey at 30 pts for the base model and then weapons on top. rokkits are 15 pts, which makes them 45, grotzooka at 10 pts. BS3, with 2D6 movement but can always shoot.
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Grot tanks seem pretty good, again a little pricey if i was going with a rokkit loadout, but reasonable if loaded with grotzookas. movement little unpredictable, but still reasonably mobile at average 7". They also have the 5++, which is a nice bonus, as i wouldn't have to sit near them with a KFF. I can also bring them and use up a elites slot and not a heavy slot. The buggies however seem extremely pts efficient for the rokkit loadout, with no pts cost increase for the weapon swap, extremely mobile and i can field quite a few squadrons. So at this point im thinking that both the grot tanks and buggies seem superior in a gun platform point of view, providing more fire power per points cost at the sacrifice of the armour 11 and CC.
I have 5 "almost-finished" Grot Tanks that I started making from scratch a few months ago and would love to use them! Not sure they're the best choice but not bad for the reasons you stated...plus, they just look so fun on the table!
zachwho wrote: are there more details about these formations somewhere else?
Once the Ghazzy Waaagh supplement is out this weekend I'm sure you'll find all the details on this thread. I'm going back to my shop today, and I'll try to type up some details about each formation.
I really only did a quick once over, as I was more interested in looking at the new codex.
I really like that BW formation giving scout. Unfortunately you need 5 BWs. Me and my friends mostly play 1500 so its kinda tough to get that many in at that points. Kinda wish it was 3-5 BWs or something.
buff to CC in general with run+charge, and reroll charge dice, we also gained instant death CC weapons
we can make quite a few boyz mobs WS5, grant more FNP's to them, heck throw grotsnik in for + d3 extra attacks,
access to I 10 HOW attacks with our basic troops with the special formation too...
can buff every single boyz unit with ard armour!!!(not 100% sure, but didnt eacv armour go down a pt too?)
against necrons and tau behind cover, we go simultanious now.
huge buff to manz, more shooty options + acess to a ++ save without buying grotsnik, acess to instant death shooting weapons, possible deepstrike with formation. access to +1 attack and armourbane with killsaws
HQ units get rerolls with the lucky stick, guaranteed re rolls on saves
more hq's available with the special FOC
tank busters ACTUALLY BUST TANKS!!!!!! gaining tank hunter and losing the stupid "do stupid stuff cause you are stupid" rule!
FA slots got so much better, storm boys went down in cost by 30%, bikers went down in cost, neither went down in effectiveness (dont you dare try to assert that trading a 4+ cover save for a 4+/3+ jink isnt worth 7pt reduction, or that taking dangerous terrain matters with a 30% pts reduction)
every single FOC slot is full of stuff I want to take...
elite has MAN's + tankbusters and I want both, kommandos went down in pts and I found them effective then, so now they are cheaper, its even better. AFAIK snikrot can still put characters on the enemies back line, so you in theory can put him, the kommandos, 3 warbosses, and ghazzy on the back line turn two!!!!
troops: largly unchanged, boys and grots are both still competitive choices, main thing is boys can all get 4+ now, shootas went up a pt, but for being so effective, it makes sense.
FA: bikers and stormboys got cheaper... larger squad size toostill krump the enemies face off... hard to choose which ones to fill the slots with!
HS: really really congested slot, everyone wants everything in this one... personally I think the various artillary is the clear winner for me, cheap access to t7 grots that can team up with anything in mega armour to move and shoot? yes please! with BW's being dedicated transports for more elites slots, and mobs over 12 models being allowed to still take trukks, it makes it easier to "steal" another units transports to save HS slots for stuff other then battel wagons
easysauce wrote: can buff every single boyz unit with ard armour!!!(not 100% sure, but didnt eacv armour go down a pt too?)
Nope, still 4 points.
AFAIK snikrot can still put characters on the enemies back line, so you in theory can put him, the kommandos, 3 warbosses, and ghazzy on the back line turn two!!!!
Yes and no. His rule now changes how infiltrate works (rather than being a rule on its own), so if you character doesn't have that, you can't infiltrate him. You might infiltrate your warlord if he gets that trait, but Thrakka will always have the Prophet of the Waaagh! trait.
HS: really really congested slot, everyone wants everything in this one... personally I think the various artillary is the clear winner for me, cheap access to t7 grots that can team up with anything in mega armour to move and shoot? yes please! with BW's being dedicated transports for more elites slots, and mobs over 12 models being allowed to still take trukks, it makes it easier to "steal" another units transports to save HS slots for stuff other then battel wagons
Only nobz, MANz and flash gits get dedicated battlewagons. There also is no need to steeling trukks, as you can simply buy one as fast attack choice. I also don't think any unit that can embark on a trukk can't buy one, besides single HQ choices.
Jambles wrote:Formations are definitely not "Apoc only". You know there's really nothing that's "Apoc only" anymore right? It's all just 40k these days. The stompa superheavy is actually in the codex now, apparently, if you needed any more proof.
Nah theres still apoc only things, but more because of the point limitations than anything else lol. Pretty sure nobody is going to field a Tau Manta without an apoc game level of points. For that matter not sure if anyone would field a Gargantuan Squiggoth either. I dont remember their points off the top of my head, but i know they arent cheap and probably not worth it if you cant back it up properly (as it would most likely be 1/4 to 1/3 your army worth lol)
tank busters ACTUALLY BUST TANKS!!!!!! gaining tank hunter and losing the stupid "do stupid stuff cause you are stupid" rule!
Yes! I saw this change and i was ecstatic. They got cheaper AND got the rule they SHOULD have had to begin with (tank hunter). Find it kinda funny they left out the MC bit, but i'll take the Tank Hunter and shut up smiling lol. Honestly didnt care about the Glory Hog rule after it got FAQ'd so you couldnt kite the crap out of them, since they almost never had a vehicle in range i DIDNT want them shooting at anyway. My ....good god i think like 30 Rokkit Launcha and Tankbusta Bombz bitz i keep in a zippy bag are finally going to get used! yay!
On the MANz or Bike boss: my 2cents is what kind of list are you doing? Trukkers list, or bike list? If you are running a MANz missile or BW boyz already, i'd take the MAN boss personally since lets face it anything that will kill a MANz boss reliably will still clobber the gak out of a biker boss, and S10 in melee is kinda rare outside powerfists/klaws or Smash attacks (which are less common now since its only 1 smash in 7th). If you dont want to dedicate the points for a BW/trukk list, i would go bikerboss just because he lacks any need for transport. Yeah, 4+ instead of 2+, but if you do not have the wheels to stick the MAN boss inside of he wont ever, EVER get to assault anything since he cannot run (still....) Then again, could do what i did once that was oddly effective. Orky gunline with a unit of MANz + MAN Boss sitting in front going "You wanan kill me boyz behin' me? YEH GOTZ TA GO TRU ME FIRST!" Except against IG tanklines, that was surprisingly effective lol. Even Tau had issues since technically tau have problems outside 36" range, and i was toting lootas + lobbas which are 48 EDIT: Actually thats kinda dead without going unbound lol. Not sure if you could field enough after paying the troop requirements for double FoC. Ughh..lootas in heavy...fml
Jidmah wrote: So, since our codex has arrived early due to GW's very own Mek technology shooting the codex into close combat, it's finally time to have a look at what changed for us orks from 6th edition:
if that updated info is true then i am very happy, extremely happy. Dred formation is almost exactly what i was planning, that seems like a ridiculous ker-ching.
the MANz formation sounds sick too.
Can i take a detachment of dred formation and then another detachment of a formation? need to go back and check jidmah's post.
Edit:
Allied Detachment: Pretty much 6th's allied FOC, may only contain units from one faction different from your primary detachment. So no allying dread mob or Waaagh! Ghazghkull to save troops. Troops from this detachment have objective secured, no matter how much they like you. So guardsmen can now capture objectives for you. Cannot pick warlord from this detachment.
So no :( no dred mob with MANz missiles. but il definitely be making those. But then i also love zagsruk and a storm boy army would be sick
And yeh thanks Jidmah, this is a really solid thread, whining has been kept to a minimum, some good ideas and great info. Cheers man
I think Tankbustas are now (in a vacuum) a little better at shooting AV12 then Lootas assuming the Lootas are firing two shots.
Versus AV11 and AV10 Lootas are still better. The good news for Tankbustas for AV11 though is they can reroll their glances and have a 50% chance for turning a glance into a pen and a 16.66667% Chance of just rolling another glance.
Tankbustas still have meltabombs, and I think they get to reroll those with tankhunters vs armor..
So with what we currently know about the new codex, how do we deal with an Imperial Knight? I have a friend who just got his. He runs it to generally back up his Space Marine army. I have no prrblems dealing with the rest of the army (BWs work wonders) but im not sure how to deal with that IK. Might just have to end up ignoring it. Any thoughts?
Perfect Organism wrote: So a Dread with four klaws now has EIGHT attacks on the charge? A pack of those should be able to take down pretty much anything in the game if they can reach it.
Profile has three attacks.
Base Dread has 2 PKs, so +1
Buy two more for 10 pts each, +2
Charge, +1
Hammer of Wrath would be the eight.
Total of one S5 AP- attack at I10, followed by seven S10 AP2 attacks at I2.
Does it make any mention of the second pk being included in the profile? The 4th Ed dread had 2 attacks base, but the extra attack from it's second weapon was included in the profile.
Did GW just copy/paste it's old stateline and forget that?
So i have the codex now and i noticed an interesting "change" in the Rams and Deffrolla rules.
When ramming, it treats the front armor as +2 armor. Previously this was only against DoG attacks AND to a max of 14....it now does Ramming not DoG AND it does not mention max of 14.
Wagons can ram with effective AV16 front armor now lol. Which equates to S8 from the armor, S9 including Tank. On top of that, returning damage from Ramming cannot hurt you since the most youre ever going to get hit in return is S8 (14 armor plus tank = S8) outside superheavies, and S8 cannot hurt AV16.
Question...I think I read that Grots got cheaper. Last I checked, they were 3 point models... Are we finally at the 1 point or just 2 stage? Because if they are 1 point...I'm converting to a Gork 'n Mork worshipper. You want to play a 2000pt game? Ok, well, here is 1000 gretchin to get us started. That being said, did everything get cheaper on the unit? I am rather curious how much the standard max size unit is now.
No theyre the same as before. Technically 5pts cheaper but you WILL want that Squighound which brings them back up to normal cost.
35pts for 10 + runtherder without the squig. 3pts each. must take a 10pt runtherder per 10 gretchin.
Kinda 0 point to bring them now. Theyre so so easy to kill, their objective secured (if you use a normal FoC) will mean nothing and our Artillery can score, which are dirt dirt freakin cheap for lobba-spamming backfield objective holders that not only hold backfield stuff, but kill stuff for barely any additional cost.
EDIT: Ok, so my FLGS usually plays 2k lists and i desperately want to run a warboss wielding this massively oversized Axe (headwompa), so i had a go at a speedfreak army and i have to admit...it kinda looks scary imo.
Spoiler:
HQ: Warboss 135pts ---Lucky Stikk, Relic Bike, Headwompa, Da Finkin Kap, Bosspole 2x Painboyz 75 (150)pts On Bikes
Elites 2x 3 MANz 170 (340)pts Boss has Killsaws and a BP Both units in their own Trukk w/ Ram
FA 15 Warbikers 305 Nob with Klaw 15 Warbikers 310 Nob with Klaw and BP Blitza Bomba 135 (this is literally because i want to for some reason lol i might get rid of this)
Troops 3x 12 Slugga Boyz 147 (441)pts Nob with Klaw and BP Each unit is in their own Trukk w/ Ram
Heavy 5 Lobbas 93 1 Ammo runt (points limitation) 5 Lobbas 90
Comes at 1999pts
Idea: Two 15man T5 with FNP blobs that are turboboosting and in your face turn 1 for a 3+ jink, giving you a choice to deal with the 5 trukks or the wagons as you most likely wont do significant damage to both. Lobbaz sit in the back holding objectives and throwing 48" blasts like crazy, thinning infantry numbers so my boyz can clobber the important things. This is kinda a list that has to go first to see true potential, but isnt auto-countered if i dont go first (just hurts a bit). Da FInkin' Kap gives me a shot at +1 Steal Initiative warlord trait on top of my orky one, which will help this dramatically. Getting D3 infiltrate would be equally nasty, as i could be in your face immediately without a turbo-boost and dakka whatever i can (since i cant charge). Thing thats slightly annoying is the bulk of my army will not benefit from Run + Charge since it specifically states "that have Run" which excludes a turbo-boost
Vineheart01 wrote: No theyre the same as before. Technically 5pts cheaper but you WILL want that Squighound which brings them back up to normal cost.
35pts for 10 + runtherder without the squig. 3pts each. must take a 10pt runtherder per 10 gretchin.
Kinda 0 point to bring them now. Theyre so so easy to kill, their objective secured (if you use a normal FoC) will mean nothing and our Artillery can score, which are dirt dirt freakin cheap for lobba-spamming backfield objective holders that not only hold backfield stuff, but kill stuff for barely any additional cost.
EDIT: Ok, so my FLGS usually plays 2k lists and i desperately want to run a warboss wielding this massively oversized Axe (headwompa), so i had a go at a speedfreak army and i have to admit...it kinda looks scary imo.
Spoiler:
HQ:
Warboss 135pts
---Lucky Stikk, Relic Bike, Headwompa, Da Finkin Kap, Bosspole
2x Painboyz 75 (150)pts
On Bikes
Elites
2x 3 MANz 170 (340)pts
Boss has Killsaws and a BP Both units in their own Trukk w/ Ram
FA 15 Warbikers 305
Nob with Klaw
15 Warbikers 310
Nob with Klaw and BP Blitza Bomba 135 (this is literally because i want to for some reason lol i might get rid of this)
Troops
3x 12 Slugga Boyz 147 (441)pts
Nob with Klaw and BP Each unit is in their own Trukk w/ Ram
Heavy
5 Lobbas 93
1 Ammo runt (points limitation)
5 Lobbas 90
Comes at 1999pts
Idea: Two 15man T5 with FNP blobs that are turboboosting and in your face turn 1 for a 3+ jink, giving you a choice to deal with the 5 trukks or the wagons as you most likely wont do significant damage to both. Lobbaz sit in the back holding objectives and throwing 48" blasts like crazy, thinning infantry numbers so my boyz can clobber the important things.
This is kinda a list that has to go first to see true potential, but isnt auto-countered if i dont go first (just hurts a bit). Da FInkin' Kap gives me a shot at +1 Steal Initiative warlord trait on top of my orky one, which will help this dramatically. Getting D3 infiltrate would be equally nasty, as i could be in your face immediately without a turbo-boost and dakka whatever i can (since i cant charge).
Thing thats slightly annoying is the bulk of my army will not benefit from Run + Charge since it specifically states "that have Run" which excludes a turbo-boost
Keep the blitz bomba! i've never seen one tableside, set the trend But yeh does look quite nasty, plenty in your face from the off-set. plenty of target saturation too. if you dropped some bikers you culd run the 3.5 MANz formation for the +1 WS and fear and fearless
- Choppa of da Ragnarork: Big choppa that gets +1S -1AP at end of turn if it caused a casualty.
This is a fun toy, you might want to point out it's cumulative up to S+6 AP 1
I was hoping to see our missing HQ's in ghaz's supplement, but maybe they'll get their own later.
I think my first army is going to have to be the green tide, with a pain boy, and snikrots red skull kommanods. maybe 2 weird boys if points permit.
5 units of kommandos arriving from my opponents edge is sure to be full of lols
I'll miss my old KFF, but I think putting 200 boys on the table as one unit will make me feel all orky inside again give up first blood? I don't think so
oh, and I forgot this:
some signs of sanity from GW, If the tide gets a breaking head or squabble, you allocate the wounds, no need for a D300
Kommandos with or without snikrot are actually viable atm since they have stealth (or shroud on the turn they appear, infiltrate or not, if snikrot is around). If i do a walker list, my elites will be 2 Kommandoz (not sure if i need snikrot, he himself isnt that special imo) and a minimal Burna squad with 3 meks sitting in a gorkanaut. Think of it this way. Rubble and/or Ruins are a 4+ as long as you are IN the terrain, not 25% obscurred, which goes to a 3+ with stealth. Thats pretty tough for a large blob of bodies to be removed that quickly unless the army thats walking up (i.e. the walkers) gets completely ignored. But thats a list i want to do later. I have no intentions of buying a naut, too expensive for such a boxy model i.e. such an easy model to kitbash lol. Using the 10000000 random ork bitz i got, im pretty sure i can throw one together using plasticard and other such structure materials.
Also the 3manz formation requires the ghaz supp. which i dont have.
That Axe of the Ragnarork is also sexy lookin. Almost like that better than the Headwompa. Again though, i need the supp I literally want Da Headwompa because he still splats T4 models on the charge (period if i get +1str warlord trait) and the wounding of 6 causing ID gives me the chance to splat things i couldnt before.....mainly lookin at those GODDAMN WRAITH KNIGHTS and other such big MCs
If no one has noticed this yet, I haven't read all the pages, if you had a speed freaks army last edition, you can still have it. "How" do you ask? The rules for the forge world biker boss still allows for biker troops. His rules are under the downloads page on forgeworld's website. Under ork dread mob, final page.
Vineheart01 wrote: Kommandos with or without snikrot are actually viable atm since they have stealth (or shroud on the turn they appear, infiltrate or not, if snikrot is around). If i do a walker list, my elites will be 2 Kommandoz (not sure if i need snikrot, he himself isnt that special imo) and a minimal Burna squad with 3 meks sitting in a gorkanaut.
Think of it this way. Rubble and/or Ruins are a 4+ as long as you are IN the terrain, not 25% obscurred, which goes to a 3+ with stealth. Thats pretty tough for a large blob of bodies to be removed that quickly unless the army thats walking up (i.e. the walkers) gets completely ignored.
But thats a list i want to do later. I have no intentions of buying a naut, too expensive for such a boxy model i.e. such an easy model to kitbash lol. Using the 10000000 random ork bitz i got, im pretty sure i can throw one together using plasticard and other such structure materials.
Also the 3manz formation requires the ghaz supp. which i dont have.
That Axe of the Ragnarork is also sexy lookin. Almost like that better than the Headwompa. Again though, i need the supp I literally want Da Headwompa because he still splats T4 models on the charge (period if i get +1str warlord trait) and the wounding of 6 causing ID gives me the chance to splat things i couldnt before.....mainly lookin at those GODDAMN WRAITH KNIGHTS and other such big MCs
Yeh im glad kommadoz are making a nice comeback what size units can you take them in? 5-15?
Im actually now really pleased I ordered the warboss edition, its now in the post to me and the suppliment actually looks quite fun. I love some of the formations, while not super powerful they simply let you field a certain way as a core setup. I would have liked to have seen perhaps some extra rules in the dred formation, as far as I can see atm there isn't much ruling. Some OS walkers would be sweet.
I too am a big fan of the big choppa relic and plan to run it either on a MA-boss or bikerboss. would love to run it on a non-MA warboss, just for the look of a big bare chested warboss with a huge frickin' axe!
Billagio wrote: So with what we currently know about the new codex, how do we deal with an Imperial Knight? I have a friend who just got his. He runs it to generally back up his Space Marine army. I have no prrblems dealing with the rest of the army (BWs work wonders) but im not sure how to deal with that IK. Might just have to end up ignoring it. Any thoughts?
Shooting it with S 8 from multiple angles (deffkoptas and buggies will help with this) and then assaulting it with several units each packing one or more klaws or killsaws (or one large unit of tankbustas) should do the trick. Just bring enough chaff that it's CCW doesn't kill anything important and try to take it down in one turn because it's stomp attacks will kill quite a few orks. You will need about a dozen tankbusta bombs, half that many power klaw nobs or killsaw meks or about three MANs with double killsaws to do the job on a fully intact knight; remember to account for the casualties it will inflict before you can hit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: So i have the codex now and i noticed an interesting "change" in the Rams and Deffrolla rules.
When ramming, it treats the front armor as +2 armor. Previously this was only against DoG attacks AND to a max of 14....it now does Ramming not DoG AND it does not mention max of 14.
Wagons can ram with effective AV16 front armor now lol. Which equates to S8 from the armor, S9 including Tank. On top of that, returning damage from Ramming cannot hurt you since the most youre ever going to get hit in return is S8 (14 armor plus tank = S8) outside superheavies, and S8 cannot hurt AV16.
Interesting....if not all that important lol
Heavy vehicles like the Leman Russ get +1 to ram damage, so they actually had more chance of damaging a wagon ramming into them than of being damaged. Shifting from a 1/3 chance of losing a hull point and a 1/6 chance of actually suffering a penetrating hit to no risk at all is rather an improvement.
Billagio wrote: So with what we currently know about the new codex, how do we deal with an Imperial Knight? I have a friend who just got his. He runs it to generally back up his Space Marine army. I have no prrblems dealing with the rest of the army (BWs work wonders) but im not sure how to deal with that IK. Might just have to end up ignoring it. Any thoughts?
Shooting it with S 8 from multiple angles (deffkoptas and buggies will help with this) and then assaulting it with several units each packing one or more klaws or killsaws (or one large unit of tankbustas) should do the trick. Just bring enough chaff that it's CCW doesn't kill anything important and try to take it down in one turn because it's stomp attacks will kill quite a few orks. You will need about a dozen tankbusta bombs, half that many power klaw nobs or killsaw meks or about three MANs with double killsaws to do the job on a fully intact knight; remember to account for the casualties it will inflict before you can hit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: So i have the codex now and i noticed an interesting "change" in the Rams and Deffrolla rules.
When ramming, it treats the front armor as +2 armor. Previously this was only against DoG attacks AND to a max of 14....it now does Ramming not DoG AND it does not mention max of 14.
Wagons can ram with effective AV16 front armor now lol. Which equates to S8 from the armor, S9 including Tank. On top of that, returning damage from Ramming cannot hurt you since the most youre ever going to get hit in return is S8 (14 armor plus tank = S8) outside superheavies, and S8 cannot hurt AV16.
Interesting....if not all that important lol
Heavy vehicles like the Leman Russ get +1 to ram damage, so they actually had more chance of damaging a wagon ramming into them than of being damaged. Shifting from a 1/3 chance of losing a hull point and a 1/6 chance of actually suffering a penetrating hit to no risk at all is rather an improvement.
I'm actually glad they gave Manz and Meks those saws. My local store has a metric button of dudes who lvoe to flash around their Knights, and would always play them against me despite me asking them politely not too, as it was pretty much an auto win since I couldn't deal with it with what I currently own, and made games highly unfun. But, I'll end up buying some more Manz to supplement the meager 3 I own right now, and I'll probly be getting a Morkanaught as well to support the Lads as they run up the field to deal with other threats...fire some good ol' Str 8 Kustom weaponry and Rokkits at it to keep it occupied.
Melevolence wrote: I'm actually glad they gave Manz and Meks those saws. My local store has a metric button of dudes who lvoe to flash around their Knights, and would always play them against me despite me asking them politely not too, as it was pretty much an auto win since I couldn't deal with it with what I currently own, and made games highly unfun. But, I'll end up buying some more Manz to supplement the meager 3 I own right now, and I'll probably be getting a Morkanaught as well to support the Lads as they run up the field to deal with other threats...fire some good ol' Str 8 Kustom weaponry and Rokkits at it to keep it occupied.
I'll admit I got lucky with my warlord trait (+ one str) but having a big mek in MA with a whole bunch of boys to soak up the knights attacks I was able to tear it down in about 4 rounds of combat I think? If my opponent had kept it on the other side of the board and just shot with it probably would have done more damage. I think kill saws hidden in groups of boys would be the best bet or a squad of tankbusteas in a trukk.
Melevolence wrote: I'm actually glad they gave Manz and Meks those saws. My local store has a metric button of dudes who lvoe to flash around their Knights, and would always play them against me despite me asking them politely not too, as it was pretty much an auto win since I couldn't deal with it with what I currently own, and made games highly unfun. But, I'll end up buying some more Manz to supplement the meager 3 I own right now, and I'll probably be getting a Morkanaught as well to support the Lads as they run up the field to deal with other threats...fire some good ol' Str 8 Kustom weaponry and Rokkits at it to keep it occupied.
I'll admit I got lucky with my warlord trait (+ one str) but having a big mek in MA with a whole bunch of boys to soak up the knights attacks I was able to tear it down in about 4 rounds of combat I think? If my opponent had kept it on the other side of the board and just shot with it probably would have done more damage. I think kill saws hidden in groups of boys would be the best bet or a squad of tankbusteas in a trukk.
I'm thinking so too. I need to convert myself some Tankbustas real fast, as their new updates are going to make them highly sought after. But I don't like their GW price tag. Then again, I could probably just use a lot of my 'stickbomb' Boyz for it, and make a few plasticard rokkit hammers or something if I feel like using Tank Hammers.
The Melta Bombs will be a huge boon if they get close, but definatly hiding some Saws will be excellent as well. I plan on getting a Morkanaught soon to help counter some of the Titans that keep appearing at my shop, counter fire with some AP 2 action to keep the titan busy while my Saws/Bustas run up to take it out at the ankles.
zachwho wrote: am i reading the ork codex the right way, I'm only able to take one gift of gork and mork per model?
so my warboss can't get the kap, stikk, and whoopas choppa??
Seems like it sadly, I wanted to give my boss the Lucky Stikk and whoppas choppa
I'm having a look through the Ghazghkull relics though, there's a KFF with a 4++. Get a Weirdboy with sanctuary in that and start laughing as your big unit of boys suddenly has a 3++ from shooting.
zachwho wrote: am i reading the ork codex the right way, I'm only able to take one gift of gork and mork per model?
so my warboss can't get the kap, stikk, and whoopas choppa??
Well, thats a big sadface D: I thought it was supposed to be just one per army. But, I guess I could see that restriction. Don't all armies have that restriction too if that's the case?
i can't have 2x axe of blind fury, but i can have one and the relic flamer on the same model! or at least i think i can...
didn't bring my chaos codex to work, just the ork. I'll look later.
I'll look at my book when I pick it up today as well. *shrug* Either way, I'm just easy going about it. I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket anyway. Makes losing all those Relics all the more painful when my HQ finally kicks the bucket.
Where do you find it? In the French codex I couldn't find such specification about relics. Page 100, only one for each of those per army, nothing more.
Well, there goes my Headwompa idea since the Stikk is kinda more important.
That is freakin dumb. We are the ONLY race that cannot take multiple once-per-army gear on the same guy? REALLY?! Turns Da Finkin' Kap from a must-take to a dont-even-think-about-it lol. Warboss should always have the Stikk or the Bike. And i had a funny kitbash idea to model Da Finkin' Kap on my warboss too
...Yeah quite literally thats all that will be taken unless you got a Big Mek sitting in a vehicle thats sole purpose is to add a 3+ repair chance.
EDIT: Oh back on the Ramming thing. Leman Russ still cant hurt the BW even with the Heavy rule, because theyre S9. If the wagon is causing the ram, a Ram adds +2 to their front armor and DOES NOT say to a max of 14 anymore. Battlewagons are AV16 front for purposes of Ramming....S10 can only glance that.
Well, there goes my Headwompa idea since the Stikk is kinda more important.
That is freakin dumb. We are the ONLY race that cannot take multiple once-per-army gear on the same guy? REALLY?!
Turns Da Finkin' Kap from a must-take to a dont-even-think-about-it lol. Warboss should always have the Stikk or the Bike.
...Yeah quite literally thats all that will be taken unless you got a Big Mek sitting in a vehicle thats sole purpose is to add a 3+ repair chance.
I believe Space Marine relics can only be taken in a similar fashion as well, they can't for example, take a Burning Blade and The Shield Eternal on the same model.
While that is true, their relics are all basically the same idea minus the shield, which is so powerful you shouldnt be allowed to take it and another relic.
Theyre ALL weapons (i have that codex too, lookin at it now) wheras the Ork relics only one is a weapon, the others are bikes and misc wargear that arent even remotely alike.
it says it under the points cost list before the unit costs/upgrade options. It says exactly as Rednoak wrote, before it lists the items and their costs.
The unit himself just says he can take from that list. The list is what denies him multiples.
Well, there goes my Headwompa idea since the Stikk is kinda more important.
That is freakin dumb. We are the ONLY race that cannot take multiple once-per-army gear on the same guy? REALLY?!
Turns Da Finkin' Kap from a must-take to a dont-even-think-about-it lol. Warboss should always have the Stikk or the Bike.
...Yeah quite literally thats all that will be taken unless you got a Big Mek sitting in a vehicle thats sole purpose is to add a 3+ repair chance.
I believe Space Marine relics can only be taken in a similar fashion as well, they can't for example, take a Burning Blade and The Shield Eternal on the same model.
Still is a hell of a buzzkill though.
Clann Raukaan can take, mindforge stave, axe of medusa, iron stone, tempered helm, betrayers bane and gorgons chain all on one model.
"only one of each of the following may be taken per army.
a model can take one of the following. "
That just seems to be a twist in words, it could be taken as "This model can only take ONE relic, period" or "It may take one of each" basically, since each relic is unique and can't take multiples.
you wouldnt be able to take multiples on the same dude even if it wasnt a once per army upgrade because they are all a flat bonus that doesnt stack with anything.
Aside from our naut not having assault, this is the only thing far as i can tell i seriously hope they FAQ to help us out.
Question: Why does everyone keep saying you can combine Da Headwompa Choppa and Lukky Stick and purchase them for the same character (Warboss, for example)? Aren't those two Relics and aren't they restricted to ONE and ONLY ONE per army?
)
little bit of a big post - can skip to after the dashed line for my end thought and questions, Konfuzed Mek 'ere; wonderin' wat 
