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Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/21 09:24:21


Post by: reds8n





..I was a bit mixed about season 1, but enjoyed it enough that I'll probably watch this.

..... I do miss having a "regular" ongoing Trek series.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/21 10:54:10


Post by: beast_gts


It's going to be a long wait until "early 2019"...


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/21 12:50:55


Post by: Paradigm


Oh yes. Lots to be excited about there, looks like the final tease of S1 will play a big part rather than just being a neat cameo. Though I still feel Saru more than earned the captaincy proper last time round, so hopefully Pike doesn't stick around for too long!


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/21 12:57:21


Post by: Mr Morden


Looks good to me!


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/21 16:46:55


Post by: Turnip Jedi


Needs more Q

Assuming they've lost the Infinite Improbability Drive, didnt get past episode 3 or 4 of S1


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/21 23:56:39


Post by: chromedog


Then you missed the mirror universe part of it.

(Lorca was mirror universe needing the spore drive to get "home" since they'd fethed up the spores in their universe).


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/22 00:34:44


Post by: Compel


PIke looks good, I'm kinda jazzed for that aspect of it.

The comedy and humour though... It kind of feels like they're just repeating jokes from The Orville.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/22 02:33:49


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Interesting take.

Although I wonder how long they can keep up the "Spock is just over there, just off screen, and we'll keep talking about him but never show him!".

Supergirl tried that in its first season and it didn't work.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/22 09:50:56


Post by: reds8n


 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Although I wonder how long they can keep up the "Spock is just over there, just off screen, and we'll keep talking about him but never show him!".









wonder if we'll see any more redesigned species this season ?





Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/22 10:27:13


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Pretty much that.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/22 10:31:53


Post by: Mr Morden


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Pretty much that.


Well its a bit better than AoS as they did (for no apparent) reason redesign (just) the look of the Klingons


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/22 13:09:01


Post by: Frazzled


Nope, don't think so.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/23 13:50:47


Post by: beast_gts


I wonder if the red flashes have anything to do with Red matter?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/26 08:00:13


Post by: Ratius


Have they definitely written out the Doctor and subsequently his story line with the lead engineer guy? I thought they had some good chemistry together.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/26 09:27:54


Post by: Mr Morden


 Ratius wrote:
Have they definitely written out the Doctor and subsequently his story line with the lead engineer guy? I thought they had some good chemistry together.


Well one of them died...... they could do it with Spore drive stuff but is that still being used?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/26 09:36:20


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Needs more Q

Assuming they've lost the Infinite Improbability Drive, didnt get past episode 3 or 4 of S1


As chromedog said, you’ve missed the best episodes

Not saying they’ll change your mind, but worth persevering,


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/26 09:53:01


Post by: Turnip Jedi


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Needs more Q

Assuming they've lost the Infinite Improbability Drive, didnt get past episode 3 or 4 of S1


As chromedog said, you’ve missed the best episodes

Not saying they’ll change your mind, but worth persevering,


I'll get round to it one day, probably, but that's one of the perils of the streaming age that good shows get edged out by gooderer shows due to finite watching time


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/26 10:52:50


Post by: Ratius


Well one of them died...... they could do it with Spore drive stuff but is that still being used?


Yeah but I have the vaugest recollections of them saying there'll be more of this story as there was such annoyance at them closing it off.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/26 11:05:45


Post by: Riquende


 Turnip Jedi wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Needs more Q

Assuming they've lost the Infinite Improbability Drive, didnt get past episode 3 or 4 of S1


As chromedog said, you’ve missed the best episodes

Not saying they’ll change your mind, but worth persevering,


I'll get round to it one day, probably, but that's one of the perils of the streaming age that good shows get edged out by gooderer shows due to finite watching time


Pretty much. I watched the first 2 episodes (the ones that had nothing to do with the rest of the show... good use of my time there). Then I think I got up to halfway though episode 4, fell asleep and just never found the time or inclination to go back and try to pick it up. My office coworker watched it all and updated me on some of the developments and nothing sounded interesting or exciting enough to bother with. Meanwhile I was looking forward each week to new episodes of the Orville.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/26 13:13:48


Post by: chromedog


I was watching both - they scratch different itches.

Sorta like the other ST shows all did. Although I don't remember what itch voyager was supposed to scratch.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/26 13:46:02


Post by: Mr Morden


 chromedog wrote:
I was watching both - they scratch different itches.

Sorta like the other ST shows all did. Although I don't remember what itch voyager was supposed to scratch.


Jeri Ryan says hi.....

Same as the "decomantation" porcess smearing gloop over a half naked Jolene Blaylock.

In fact given that a good portion of Discovery was spent in the Mirror Universe we missed out on alot of sexy outfits!

Still not seen Orvile although friends say its pretty good if occassionaly the jokes fall flat - problem I have is that I cant stand Seth Mcfarlane's cartoon shows.

Discovery was often very good fun - the only thing i felt it could have done better was not have made a bizare redesign f the Klingons.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/26 22:22:42


Post by: chromedog


Yeah, Jeri Ryan did nothing for me.
Nor did captain monotone.

Seth McFarlane's cartoons don't grab me, but the writing on the orville is better (even if many of the jokes fall just as flat). There's some TNG level political commentary in there as well.
(State sanctioned gender reassignment surgeries ... )


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/28 08:18:47


Post by: Just Tony


 Mr Morden wrote:
 chromedog wrote:
I was watching both - they scratch different itches.

Sorta like the other ST shows all did. Although I don't remember what itch voyager was supposed to scratch.


Jeri Ryan says hi.....

Same as the "decomantation" porcess smearing gloop over a half naked Jolene Blaylock.

In fact given that a good portion of Discovery was spent in the Mirror Universe we missed out on alot of sexy outfits!

Still not seen Orvile although friends say its pretty good if occassionaly the jokes fall flat - problem I have is that I cant stand Seth Mcfarlane's cartoon shows.

Discovery was often very good fun - the only thing i felt it could have done better was not have made a bizare redesign f the Klingons.


Pffffffffffffffffffffft. Roxann Dawson was the itch scratcher if anyone was, as far as ogling female beauty. Actually, her storylines were some of the best stuff on there. Her AND Tom Paris.

As far as theme? It felt more that Voyager was hell bent on changing Janeway's religion every damn episode. Then it changed to revolve around Seven of Nine's rack, and I'm not sure that was an improvement.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/07/29 02:29:58


Post by: Skaorn


Please tell me it doesn't do a lot with time travel. While Trek could put out some good episodes and movies with it, Voyager, Enterprise, and Abrams were just terrible at it.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/08/08 17:08:14


Post by: Frazzled


That sounds wack a mole bad, with literally nothing to do with any previous Trek.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/08/11 00:36:57


Post by: squidhills


I love how they can't admit they gakked the bed with the terrible, terrible Klingon redesign. At least the folks at Doctor Who had the good sense to realize nobody except Moffat liked the Skittles Daleks, so they quietly pushed them further and further into the background. STD keeps pushing their Klingon redesigns as "totally not garbage, guys".


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/08/11 07:10:14


Post by: AduroT


I liked the skittles...


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/08/11 12:06:05


Post by: reds8n


There was a thing when JJ Abrams left the trek franchise he rebooted to do Star Wars, turned out he had issues Paramount not cancelling the existing lines of licensed action figures etc etc, which would've cut into the sales of the new characters figures, persumably.

IIRC that was one of the reasons C3po had a red arm in episode 7 -- counted as a redesign so Abrams et al get .XX% of monies from things featuring said new design.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/08/21 10:55:37


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


I liked the Klingon redesign, but then I’m in the, “liked Discovery despite the fact it was Star Trek” camp.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/09/23 10:17:54


Post by: reds8n







http://www.startrek.com/article/short-treks-schedule-revealed


Mark the date: Thursday, October 4. That’s when CBS All Access will begin to roll out Star Trek: Short Treks, the four standalone stories building toward the early 2019 return of Star Trek: Discovery. As previously reported, each short will run approximately 10-15 minutes and will be an opportunity for fans to dive deeper into key themes and characters – including Tilly (Mary Wiseman), Saru (Doug Jones), Harry Mudd (Rainn Wilson, who directs his segment as well) and a new character, Craft (Aldis Hodge) -- that fit into Discovery and the expanding Star Trek universe.

The Star Trek: Short Treks will roll out in the following order:
“Runaway” – Thursday, Oct. 4

Onboard the U.S.S. Discovery, Ensign Tilly (Mary Wiseman) encounters an unexpected visitor in need of help. However, this unlikely pair may have more in common than meets the eye.

Written by Jenny Lumet and Alex Kurtzman. Directed by Maja Vrvilo.


“Calypso” – Thursday, Nov. 8

After waking up in an unfamiliar sickbay, Craft (Aldis Hodge) finds himself on board a deserted ship, and his only companion and hope for survival is an A.I. computer interface.

Teleplay by Michael Chabon. Story by Sean Cochran and Michael Chabon. Directed by Olatunde Osunsanmi.


“The Brightest Star” – Thursday, Dec. 6

Before he was the first Kelpien to join Starfleet, Saru (Doug Jones) lived a simple life on his home planet of Kaminar with his father and sister. Young Saru, full of ingenuity and a level of curiosity uncommon among his people, yearns to find out what lies beyond his village, leading him on an unexpected path.

Written by Bo Yeon Kim & Erika Lippoldt. Directed by Douglas Aarniokoski.


“The Escape Artist” – Thursday, Jan. 3

Harry Mudd (Rainn Wilson), back to his old tricks of stealing and double-dealing, finds himself in a precarious position aboard a hostile ship – just in time to try out his latest con.

Written by Michael McMahan. Directed by Rainn Wilson.





Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/09/23 10:22:41


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Netflix won’t be showing these, which is a bummer.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/09/23 12:08:46


Post by: Mr Morden


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I liked the Klingon redesign, but then I’m in the, “liked Discovery despite the fact it was Star Trek” camp.


It was the only thing I disliked and went - hmm Why have they done that - rest was great.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/09/24 00:47:56


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 Mr Morden wrote:

In fact given that a good portion of Discovery was spent in the Mirror Universe we missed out on alot of sexy outfits!


Honestly, I thought the Disco take on Mirror Universe was great. . . I felt they were actually menacing and dangerous and not just some comically bad "I swear this isn't Spaceballs" type villain.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/09/25 07:16:59


Post by: AduroT


 Mr Morden wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I liked the Klingon redesign, but then I’m in the, “liked Discovery despite the fact it was Star Trek” camp.


It was the only thing I disliked and went - hmm Why have they done that - rest was great.


Same. I went into the series expecting trash based on all the production news and rumors, but really I quite liked the show, except that Klingon redesign.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/02 06:10:27


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Right, according to DenofGeek, it’s airing in January.

I for one can think of far worse ways to usher in a new year!


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/07 11:09:31


Post by: reds8n


http://www.darkhorizons.com/star-trek-discovery-s2-nycc-trailer/


Following the CBS All Access panel at New York Comic-Con, a new trailer is out for the second season of “Star Trek: Discovery” along with the reveal of its premiere date – January 17th 2019.

In the new season, Anson Mount’s Captain Christopher Pike of the USS Enterprise takes over command of the USS Discovery. His mission is to find out the truth behind the seven ‘red bursts’ that have appeared across the galaxy, mysterious signals beyond Federation understanding and which seems to be part of the second season’s story arc.

They also tie into Spock (Ethan Peck) who has taken leave to pursue his own investigation and the trailer offers a first look at the character. Rebecca Romijn also joins the cast as the original Number One alongside returning cast members such as Sonequa Martin-Green, Doug Jones, Anthony Rapp, James Frain and more.







Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/07 11:27:25


Post by: Mr Morden


Hell yeah PG is back

and proper Klingons


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/07 11:47:27


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


Oh thank feth, the neo-Klingons of season 1 was my biggest peeve.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/07 12:30:14


Post by: Formosa


I just assumed the Klingons from disco were the remnants of the super human virus and eventually they turn back into proper Klingons, given the virus would likely affect different Klingons to greater or lesser extents you would have the weird ones from season one alongside others that look more Klingon and some that even look nearly human, all living together across the empire.

That’s just how I’ve justified the look, with a bit of luck that’s how they are going with it too.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/07 14:11:46


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Not a long wait at all, which is pleasing.

S1 Klingons could also be ‘hardline’ types. Consider world religions, and how particularly strict sects might choose to dress. In Trek, facial modification to excentuate the ridges etc seems perfectly possible.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/07 19:05:41


Post by: Mr Morden


Is it just me or that Empress seems to have much more fun in the D universe than the mirror......


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/07 19:07:15


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Guess it’s like being on Hols if you’re a boss? Not having to worry about keeping things running, and for the Mirror universe, less having to keep an eye on would be rivals.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/07 22:40:11


Post by: warboss


Is it just me or does this Spock look like a Beatle meets hipster hybrid? Or the creepy tv producer from the first Hunger Games movie? Either way, I'm glad they're at least addressing one major issue i had with season 1... Namely the Klingons (people and ships).


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/08 03:51:42


Post by: AduroT


Ill be curious if they address their change in appearance or if they’ll just be like what? No... they Always looked like this. You’re crazy.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/08 07:13:10


Post by: Mr Morden


 AduroT wrote:
Ill be curious if they address their change in appearance or if they’ll just be like what? No... they Always looked like this. You’re crazy.


Year 1 Klingons

I think it will be alt realities - looks like they are still messing about with the Spore Drive after all.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/08 16:34:27


Post by: Ensis Ferrae


 AduroT wrote:
Ill be curious if they address their change in appearance or if they’ll just be like what? No... they Always looked like this. You’re crazy.


Just some idle musing. . .in season 1 they mention what. . . 24 great houses?? I think in TNG Worf mentions 12? (someone who knows better, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) . . . Could be, the houses we saw in season 1, that looked the way they did ultimately get wiped out/taken over by the TNG era 12 great houses who look more like the klingons that most people seem to love.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/09 04:25:04


Post by: AduroT


I think I recall hearing that their explanation was that different houses have different physical appearances, so yeah, something like that.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/09 09:09:42


Post by: Mr Morden


 AduroT wrote:
I think I recall hearing that their explanation was that different houses have different physical appearances, so yeah, something like that.


Well we did have quite a few houses in the first season and they all looked basically the same - as they did in the Grand Council chamber


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/09 09:46:56


Post by: AduroT


I never said it was a Good explanation.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/10/09 17:17:21


Post by: d-usa


Could they copy the TOS and TNG explanations of "virus"?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/12 19:24:48


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Disco is apparently back in the form of 'Short Trek' episodes on CBS streaming. They're short episodes to preview Season 2.

Not worth getting CBS just for them IMHO but if you already have it...


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/12 19:41:20


Post by: Mr Morden


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Disco is apparently back in the form of 'Short Trek' episodes on CBS streaming. They're short episodes to preview Season 2.

Not worth getting CBS just for them IMHO but if you already have it...


Does any uk channel get them?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/12 19:49:37


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


I think ROW gets them on Netflix but I don't know.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/12 19:52:21


Post by: warboss


 Mr Morden wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Disco is apparently back in the form of 'Short Trek' episodes on CBS streaming. They're short episodes to preview Season 2.

Not worth getting CBS just for them IMHO but if you already have it...


Does any uk channel get them?


When I last checked a few weeks ago, no one wanted to pay millions to CBS to license them. They're apparently charging extra for them instead of including them as part of the existing DISCO license. Netflix reportedly passed on it according to the Midnights Edge youtube channel. I'm not entirely sure if it was covered in this video or a previous one. As with all rumors and supposed "insider" sources, add salt as needed.






Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 05:06:57


Post by: LordofHats


I started the first season today on DVD because I'm a stickler and I refuse to pay for CBS whatever they call their streaming service.

The second half was a lot better than the first. Honestly the first was fan fic levels of bad imo. Characters behaved in ways that didn't make much sense frequently, and when not doing that were making huge leaps in logic to justify their choices for the plot. It was kind of jarring, especially in the first three episodes.

It got better after that.

I have reversed my opinion on the Klingon redesign. I think it worked in Into Darkness because the characters were still distinctly Klingon. I could recognize them as such even with the changes. In Discovery though they look too much like a bunch of generic one off aliens, most notably the Na'Kuhl from Enterprise. Their attire was completely different, and the ships lacked a lot of what I'd consider the Klingon aesthetic.

It dragged me down a bit until I got used to.

Just some idle musing. . .in season 1 they mention what. . . 24 great houses?? I think in TNG Worf mentions 12? (someone who knows better, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) . . . Could be, the houses we saw in season 1, that looked the way they did ultimately get wiped out/taken over by the TNG era 12 great houses who look more like the klingons that most people seem to love.


As I remember it, in TNG the Klingon High Council was made of 12 great houses, but the way the stories of the era presented things these houses rotated in and out with the ups and downs of political power in the Empire. Every Klingon had a house, but that didn't necessarily mean they were notable.

Most of Star Trek history is undefined. It could ultimately be anything the writers come up with.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 05:24:24


Post by: warboss


 LordofHats wrote:
I started the first season today on DVD because I'm a stickler and I refuse to pay for CBS whatever they call their streaming service.


Did you buy the season on dvd?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 05:27:14


Post by: LordofHats


iTunes technically. But iTunes/DVD. Paltry difference.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 05:35:34


Post by: warboss


 LordofHats wrote:
I have reversed my opinion on the Klingon redesign. I think it worked in Into Darkness because the characters were still distinctly Klingon. I could recognize them as such even with the changes. In Discovery though they look too much like a bunch of generic one off aliens, most notably the Na'Kuhl from Enterprise. Their attire was completely different, and the ships lacked a lot of what I'd consider the Klingon aesthetic.

It dragged me down a bit until I got used to.


The funny thing is that for many people (like myself) who disliked the extreme changes in DISCO would have been fine with a moderate update. Simply giving the Klingons with their egg shaped heads, quad nostrils, mush mouths, and weird pointy baroque ribbed rubbery armor some hair would have been enough. It's just that the creators wanted to stretch their wings and not be constrained at all by the previous 50 years. If they wanted to do that, all they had to do was introduce a completely new adversarial race into the mix like TNG did with the Ferengi and Cardassians.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LordofHats wrote:
iTunes technically. But iTunes/DVD. Paltry difference.


It just seems odd to have such a strong stance against the streaming service but be ok with buying the digital (or physical) version unless your beef is strictly with CBS's crappy streaming app itself and not the drama surrounding the show. I had tons of issues with it on my xbox with one episode taking 15 minutes to actually start playing (requiring multiple reboots of both the app and the xbox itself) during my free week when I binged on DISCO.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 05:42:30


Post by: LordofHats


I disagree with the service because I don't want it to become the norm. The idea of managing a two or three dozen subscriptions to different streaming services because everyone decided to hog their content to themselves behind their own individual paywalls annoys me.

I don't want the market to look like that, so I won't support it. I have no qualm with good old home video.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 13:07:11


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I already have five subscriptions.

Netflix, Amazon Prime, NowTV, WWE Network and Shudder, an Amazon all horror channel.

Each gives me something different, but I am considering dropping Netflix. NowTV is defo staying, because it's all the channels I'd watch if I had a full Sky Sub, but for the merest fraction of the price.

For others? It really does depend what they're offering me.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 14:35:04


Post by: warboss


 LordofHats wrote:
I disagree with the service because I don't want it to become the norm. The idea of managing a two or three dozen subscriptions to different streaming services because everyone decided to hog their content to themselves behind their own individual paywalls annoys me.

I don't want the market to look like that, so I won't support it. I have no qualm with good old home video.


That's reasonable and I actually agree. The fragmentation of streaming content is turning what used to be a 2-3 subscription affair (Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime) into dozens to get the same content. It's both inevitable and regretable that its starting to resemble the cost and the mess of cable tv.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 17:39:58


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Returning to DISCO, I say again it should have been set 50 years after Voyager. Have we gained anything from having Burnham be Spock's foster sister? Until S2 that's literally the only reason it has to be set in the past.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 17:45:24


Post by: Mr Morden


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Returning to DISCO, I say again it should have been set 50 years after Voyager. Have we gained anything from having Burnham be Spock's foster sister? Until S2 that's literally the only reason it has to be set in the past.



Agreed - I really enjoyed it but the "Klingons" could have been a new race and it would have been perfect


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 17:50:53


Post by: LordofHats


Having watched through all but the last 3 episodes at this point I'd have to agree. The basic premise of Discovery, and I really hate using this metaphor because some fanfic is actually pretty good but;

"So it turns out Spock totally has a foster sister, who is human but raised by Vulcans because of tragedy that comes back to haunt her (and we'll claim in the same episode we bring this up no one has seen Klingons in a hundred years even though they apparently busy themselves massacring places in our borders) and she makes totally reasonable decisions but no one likes them so she goes to jail but she's so super good at science too she gets hired by the secret government for top secret stuff but etc. etc. etc."

I could honestly rant about the absolutely horrific premise behind Burnham's antisue character for awhile but I doubt anyone wants to hear that so I'll just stop. It really is like someone's first fanfic that they tried really hard on at the start. It's admirable, and even charming at times, but it's also kind of cringe worthy. it's only after the writers seem to have gotten a real handle on what their doing 5-6 episodes in that the story starts improving past horror movie levels of lazy characterization and plotting.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 17:50:53


Post by: warboss


You're not the only one who suggested that but the creators wanted to name drop it in with existing canon for the extra potential eyeballs while simultaneously throwing all that canon baggage out of the window. Things must not have gone as well as hoped for them to break the glass and slam the "only in case of emergency" Spock/Enterprise button when they promised they wouldn't less than a year before the reveal of both.

https://www.polygon.com/tv/2017/10/18/16500810/star-trek-discovery-continuity-original-series

We know that Spock exists in the same timeline as Burnham, but Discovery producer Akiva Goldsman confirmed that Discovery viewers will never see Spock.

The producer did, however, address continuity concerns people have about Discovery. Goldsman said he was aware that Discovery could potentially catch up with The Original Series and, if that were to happen, the show would acknowledge The Original Series’ timeline in some fashion. Until that point, Goldsman said Discovery will exist within its own universe.




Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 18:14:10


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 LordofHats wrote:
Having watched through all but the last 3 episodes at this point I'd have to agree. The basic premise of Discovery, and I really hate using this metaphor because some fanfic is actually pretty good but;

"So it turns out Spock totally has a foster sister, who is human but raised by Vulcans because of tragedy that comes back to haunt her (and we'll claim in the same episode we bring this up no one has seen Klingons in a hundred years even though they apparently busy themselves massacring places in our borders) and she makes totally reasonable decisions but no one likes them so she goes to jail but she's so super good at science too she gets hired by the secret government for top secret stuff but etc. etc. etc."

I could honestly rant about the absolutely horrific premise behind Burnham's antisue character for awhile but I doubt anyone wants to hear that so I'll just stop. It really is like someone's first fanfic that they tried really hard on at the start. It's admirable, and even charming at times, but it's also kind of cringe worthy. it's only after the writers seem to have gotten a real handle on what their doing 5-6 episodes in that the story starts improving past horror movie levels of lazy characterization and plotting.


Not just fanfic but Mary Sue levels of fanfic.

FYI the term Mary Sue (a 'perfect' character the author wants everyone to love) comes from a very early parody of Star Trek fanfic called a Trekers Tale.

And now it's canon.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 18:32:51


Post by: LordofHats


It honestly reminds me of Star Trek: Renegades, i.e. that fan film where every actor plays a mary sue character oh and Tuvok and Chekov are here and we forgot what we were doing with the plot here's some EXPLOSIONS!

Except with higher production values and slightly better writing. Which makes me sound like I'm really ripping on the series I guess. It gets better. Everything after episode 4 steadily improves, and I feel like I'm watching something by episode 9 or so that's at least on par with Voyager. Not high praise in my book, but I'm sufficiently appeased that I'll watch a little more just to see where it goes.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 20:05:27


Post by: Mr Morden


 LordofHats wrote:
It honestly reminds me of Star Trek: Renegades, i.e. that fan film where every actor plays a mary sue character oh and Tuvok and Chekov are here and we forgot what we were doing with the plot here's some EXPLOSIONS!

Except with higher production values and slightly better writing. Which makes me sound like I'm really ripping on the series I guess. It gets better. Everything after episode 4 steadily improves, and I feel like I'm watching something by episode 9 or so that's at least on par with Voyager. Not high praise in my book, but I'm sufficiently appeased that I'll watch a little more just to see where it goes.


Urghh no - Voyager was just bad - yeah the Dr was good and there was 7of 9 but most of the rest was drek. It had THAT boxing episode and the Dlelta flyer on shoting Borg cubes - talk about Fanfic.

Plus Voyager did not have a Mirror episode - which could have actually been fun and even their Q episode was dull.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 20:59:14


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


I have a hard time seeing how Burnham is a Mary Sue when she immediately feths up monumentally and gets Georgiou killed. Poor writing is not the same as a Mary Sue.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 21:07:27


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I have a hard time seeing how Burnham is a Mary Sue when she immediately feths up monumentally and gets Georgiou killed. Poor writing is not the same as a Mary Sue.


My check list would be:

Extra super special origin (human raised by Vulcans)
Always right (she didn't #$%^ up, everyone else did for not listening to her)
Improbable ascension (rather than return you to jail we'll give you a job on our super secret ship)
Saves the universe or whatever
Improbable love affair (Klingon-human hybrid dude spy thing)
Cool super ship

I mean the actress is really good, and she's not quite at Wesley Crusher levels, but she's pretty much a Mary Sue.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 21:22:33


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


As opposed to Kirk?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 21:22:50


Post by: LordofHats


Burnham has an overly dramatic (and horrifically overly contrived) origin story that also grants her a contrived connection to a major character (Spock/Sarek), is overly idealized in the narrative despite her flaws (granting her antisue status imo), and coasts through the plot for no explicable reason while quickly winning people over to her side for no explicable reason. The one person who doesn't like her much of the time is Saru, who is portrayed (and revealed) to do so for exceedingly petty reasons despite extolling her virtues as an officer at many turns... for no explicable reason?

Spoiler:
Even her Mirror Universe counterpart is inexplicably loved by everyone despite espousing ideals completely opposite to those of the Empire, and they love Prime Burnham just as much because... reasons?


Being a Sue isn't a hard category, but a vague collection of bad writing tropes and Burnham hits more than enough of them for me.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 22:19:54


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As opposed to Kirk?


real Kirk wouldn't qualify but Fake Kirk definitely does.

from washout cadet about to be expelled to Captain of the fleet's flagship in under an hour? And it gets WORSE in later films?

My gawd, I have quibbles with DISCO but the Kelvin films need to die in a fire.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 22:43:03


Post by: chromedog


Spock also had a half-brother that he NEVER spoke of and nobody knew about until the movie with the cowboys and the rocks in it.

So him having an adopted sister and not speaking of it is not out of character.

Kirk was a prat, played by a never-was-been.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 22:43:20


Post by: LordofHats


I generally liked JJ Trek and I'd agree that Kirk's rapid rise to captaincy only makes sense in an emergency. That he kept it after the fact the rather jarring... and then it happens again in the second movie.

EDIT: I don't think I'm alone either in consider Star Trek V to be the worst of the TOS films by far. I'm not sure that's the standard we want to be measuring with.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/13 23:30:36


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 chromedog wrote:


Kirk was a prat, played by a never-was-been.


Which Kirk?

Or both?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/11/14 01:21:50


Post by: Compel


 chromedog wrote:

Kirk was a prat


Wrong Hollywood Chris. :p


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/12/01 09:42:53


Post by: reds8n







Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/12/01 10:21:57


Post by: Formosa


well Kurztmen is at the helm so very low hopes for this series


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/12/02 01:32:24


Post by: chromedog


Never heard of the vulcan throat punch before ...


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/12/02 03:46:13


Post by: warboss


 chromedog wrote:
Never heard of the vulcan throat punch before ...


It's a nerve pinch. Not sure if you're watching that on your phone but on a bigger screen it's clear.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/12/05 12:08:33


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Seems we get Disco Season 2 next year, and....the new Picard series (not in 2020 as previously billed)

I for one am excite!


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2018/12/05 12:14:37


Post by: Bran Dawri


 LordofHats wrote:
I generally liked JJ Trek and I'd agree that Kirk's rapid rise to captaincy only makes sense in an emergency. That he kept it after the fact the rather jarring... and then it happens again in the second movie.

EDIT: I don't think I'm alone either in consider Star Trek V to be the worst of the TOS films by far. I'm not sure that's the standard we want to be measuring with.


Really? I rather enjoyed it. Actually captured the cheesiness of TOS rather well I thought.
Also: "Excuse me. What does God need with a starship?"


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 13:01:08


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


RIght then.

Arise ye thread of old. The Disco is open once more. Well, it will be in a few hours when Season 2 kicks off on Netflix in the UK



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 15:55:27


Post by: Togusa


[/url]https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a25901852/star-trek-spin-offs-learn-from-deep-space-nine-voyager-mistakes/[url]

"I think that Deep Space Nine and Voyager got into a tricky spot where people were starting to feel like, 'I can't tell the difference between the shows', even though they were very different.


No...I'm begging you, don't say it...

"Our job is to make sure that every time you get a new Star Trek show, it feels like a very different prospect from any other Trek show that exists.


Well...nvm, there it is.

All hope is gone. We will never know what happened after the Dominion War and the Return of Voyager to Earth. Did Cardassia eventually join the Federation? Did the Romulan Empire continue to play hopscotch with the Federation on the edge of the neutral zone, or were more formal relations established in the aftermath of the conflict? After the Dominion withdraw from the Alpha Quadrant, did they also establish more peaceful relations with said quadrant? Was Odo able to teach his people all that he had learned in an effort to help bring them into the greater galaxy in a more positive light? How long did Ben spend with the Prophets? Did he return? After Janeway's return, how were relations between the Borg and the Federation? Were there further wars between the two, or did things settle down. Were there new expeditions into the Beta Quadrant? How much damage did Bashir and O'Brien actually manage to do to S31? Did the Klingon's ever relinquish any of the territory they annexed from both Cardassia and the Federation?

What, 20 years of story telling, 21 seasons across three different shows. All of it gone, forgotten and left in an age long dead.





Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 16:05:38


Post by: warboss


Well, it looks like some reviews are filtering in. The good news is that all the sites owned by CBS think the second season premiere on CBS All Access is great!




Just kidding... I'm sure the reviews even on non-CBS owned sites will be stellar just like with fan favs like the Last Jedi and the latest Doctor Who season.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 16:57:45


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


@Togusa apparently the new Picard show is set in the real time line, on the Enterprise E even!!

We shall see of course.

I'm headed overseas again this summer so waiting on Disco until I get watch it on Netflix rather than buy into a new service.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 17:57:18


Post by: Ahtman


Haven't watched the show so no comment on it but I have seen the redesign of the original Enterprise from the series and I like it. It seems to have taken elements from TOS, the refit Enterprise from the movies, and probably hints from the Abrams version. I may even get the Eaglemoss XL version of it.

Spoiler:


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 18:06:00


Post by: Togusa


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
@Togusa apparently the new Picard show is set in the real time line, on the Enterprise E even!!

We shall see of course.

I'm headed overseas again this summer so waiting on Disco until I get watch it on Netflix rather than buy into a new service.


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-patrick-stewarts-picard-series-reveals-new-details-1174452

This article seems to indicate otherwise, that it is set in the JJ verse and deals with the destruction of Romulus. Pure. Gak. If true.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 18:10:09


Post by: LordofHats


The destruction of Romulus happened in the original timeline, not the "JJverse" timeline.

If anything the article posits exactly what you want, a series picking right on the last piece of info we have of the original Star Trek timeline. Look on the bright side. It can't be worse than what STO did with it.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 18:10:46


Post by: warboss


Yeah, introducing the Enterprise (and Spock) are "break glass in case of emergency" aspects added on late last season in direct contradiction to what the creators said they'd do (or in this case wouldn't) just a few months earlier.

I agree that the new Enterprise look is nice and I see it as equal parts TOS, TMP, and STD (mainly just the metallic color) for better or worse. I prefer the fan model (as in phsyical 1/350th? scale model) version created by Bill Krause that additionally has the TOS colors.

Spoiler:


Of course, since it does mix in parts of classic trek it instantly clashes with the more angular STD asthetics and some fans of the new look don't like the Enterprise. YMMV.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 18:12:05


Post by: Togusa


 LordofHats wrote:
The destruction of Romulus happened in the original timeline, not the "JJverse" timeline.


?? Romulus was not destroyed in any of the canon from TNG to Voyager.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Togusa wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
The destruction of Romulus happened in the original timeline, not the "JJverse" timeline.


?? Romulus was not destroyed in any of the canon from TNG to Voyager.


"In 2387, a star close to Romulus went supernova, endangering the entire galaxy. Ambassador Spock created a red matter singularity which consumed the star, but not before the supernova reached Romulus, destroying the planet, bringing the fall of the empire. (Star Trek)"

This is Gak. And I don't care what anyone says. IT. NEVER. HAPPENED.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 18:25:46


Post by: LordofHats


 Togusa wrote:
?? Romulus was not destroyed in any of the canon from TNG to Voyager.


Romulus was destroyed in the Star Trek reboot yes, but it's destruction is part of the classic Trek timeline carrying on from a two parter in TNG's last season. A story focused on the aftermath of that event won't be set in the altered timeline of the JJverse films, but the original timeline.

Of course how much we learn about the aftermath of the Dominion War and Voyager could be down to nothing. It sounds like they're pitching a sort of character piece focused specifically on Picard's life and times. We might not get much about the present state of Cardassia, the Dominion, or the Voyager crew. At the very least we'll probably get plenty about the fate of the Romulans. Personally I'd rather see a movie about DS9 along these lines. After Bajor joins the Federation and what's going on in the lives of all those characters. I'll watch something about Picard though.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/17 22:45:19


Post by: Togusa


 LordofHats wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
?? Romulus was not destroyed in any of the canon from TNG to Voyager.


Romulus was destroyed in the Star Trek reboot yes, but it's destruction is part of the classic Trek timeline carrying on from a two parter in TNG's last season. A story focused on the aftermath of that event won't be set in the altered timeline of the JJverse films, but the original timeline.

Of course how much we learn about the aftermath of the Dominion War and Voyager could be down to nothing. It sounds like they're pitching a sort of character piece focused specifically on Picard's life and times. We might not get much about the present state of Cardassia, the Dominion, or the Voyager crew. At the very least we'll probably get plenty about the fate of the Romulans. Personally I'd rather see a movie about DS9 along these lines. After Bajor joins the Federation and what's going on in the lives of all those characters. I'll watch something about Picard though.


Ah, I think I understand our disagreement. I'm saying I don't accept that terrible, terrible writing from the movie to be cannon. I know that Paramount considers it so, but I don't. I refuse. When Janeway came home, ST was over. Whatever happened after 2002, it wasn't star trek.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/18 09:14:32


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


ST was over before Janeway left home.

So, seems CBS aired it yesterday. Anyone tune in?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/18 09:25:07


Post by: AduroT


Continues to be a decent sci-fi action show with a veneer of Star Trek. It’s interesting to see the bits of Discovery next to Enterprise and it’s OST themes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and I don’t know if I just never noticed it in the first season, or if there was never a sequence that framed it so well, but Saru’s arm movement when they’re walking is really freaky.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/18 23:22:21


Post by: Chillreaper


 AduroT wrote:
Continues to be a decent sci-fi action show with a veneer of Star Trek. It’s interesting to see the bits of Discovery next to Enterprise and it’s OST themes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and I don’t know if I just never noticed it in the first season, or if there was never a sequence that framed it so well, but Saru’s arm movement when they’re walking is really freaky.


I never noticed it in Season 1, so I'm assuming that it's new framing. I can't imagine that I'd have missed it - so odd, disturbing and alien!

I loved the episode, Star Trek meets BSG meets Mass Effect, which totally works for me.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/19 02:59:45


Post by: Formosa


Well the destruction of Spock has begun, Skywalker syndrome I'll call it, they couldn't even wait one episode before Mary suiing up old mikey, even the SJW stuff that belongs in trek they can't even get right, series is off to a bad start.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/19 08:39:02


Post by: Souleater


I like Captain Pike. He seems the kind of enlightened military type I thought that Starfleet personnel were in the original series and early films.

Not sure about the Spock/Mike dynamic. In TOS if somebody was kicking off on an emotional level it seemed to be Spock. Until.i started researching the first series a couple of years ago, I didn't realise how 'unstable' he can come across compared to the rest of the crew. But the first season of Discovery didn't give me the impression that their sibling relationship was that difficult.

I enjoyed it but would like to see a bit.more about the rest of the other crew members - bridge, medical staff.

I do hope that the engineer they stumbled upon ends up joining discovery's crew. Thought she was a great character.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/19 09:55:56


Post by: AduroT


I assume she’s sticking around. She was too unique and randomly skilled to be a throw away.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/19 14:26:31


Post by: Formosa


 Souleater wrote:
I like Captain Pike. He seems the kind of enlightened military type I thought that Starfleet personnel were in the original series and early films.

Not sure about the Spock/Mike dynamic. In TOS if somebody was kicking off on an emotional level it seemed to be Spock. Until.i started researching the first series a couple of years ago, I didn't realise how 'unstable' he can come across compared to the rest of the crew. But the first season of Discovery didn't give me the impression that their sibling relationship was that difficult.

I enjoyed it but would like to see a bit.more about the rest of the other crew members - bridge, medical staff.

I do hope that the engineer they stumbled upon ends up joining discovery's crew. Thought she was a great character.



Jet Reno her name was and her introduction was pathetically stupid, open heart surgery, sure im an engineer, brain surgery, sure im an engineer.... utterly stupid, that aside though she had a thing about her that instantly got my attention, maybe its because every other character in the show is so wooden it was nice to have someone who seemed so animated, either way I would like to see more of her too.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/19 15:12:36


Post by: Paradigm


Very solid opener. Need to watch it again to catch all the exposition being thrown around, but the episode itself was nicely put together, plenty of action and tension without resorting to big firefights, some proper Treky science stuff and a good mystery being set up. Everything looked amazing as well.

Maybe it's just because of last season, but I'm already starting to wonder if...
Spoiler:

Pike isn't Pike... He was very quick to distract from the fact his DNA scan didn't seem to work by launching into his speech about his achievements and commendations, and ingratiated himself with the crew in an almost too-good-to-be-true way.

Maybe it's a double bluff and the writers are playing on the fact that the show has already pulled off 2 'this person is someone else entirely' twists with Lorca and Voq, but I'm not sure... definitely a bit suspicious though.


And yeah, Saru's arms got weird...


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/19 15:12:52


Post by: warboss


 Formosa wrote:

Jet Reno her name was and her introduction was pathetically stupid, open heart surgery, sure im an engineer, brain surgery, sure im an engineer.... utterly stupid, that aside though she had a thing about her that instantly got my attention, maybe its because every other character in the show is so wooden it was nice to have someone who seemed so animated, either way I would like to see more of her too.


I didn't watch but, looking at some reviews, this super engineer turned impromptu brain surgeon/intensivist couldn't figure out how to make the transporter work but Mary Burnham did within minutes after injury or somesuch. Apparently it's a good thing that the toxic white male of the season died earlier so he wasn't there to mess things up again. Is that actually the case?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/19 15:16:07


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I enjoyed that.

Decent action, plot went along at a decent clip.

I do hope we see the rest of the bridge crew get their time in the sun this season.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/19 22:06:41


Post by: Formosa


 warboss wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

Jet Reno her name was and her introduction was pathetically stupid, open heart surgery, sure im an engineer, brain surgery, sure im an engineer.... utterly stupid, that aside though she had a thing about her that instantly got my attention, maybe its because every other character in the show is so wooden it was nice to have someone who seemed so animated, either way I would like to see more of her too.


I didn't watch but, looking at some reviews, this super engineer turned impromptu brain surgeon/intensivist couldn't figure out how to make the transporter work but Mary Burnham did within minutes after injury or somesuch. Apparently it's a good thing that the toxic white male of the season died earlier so he wasn't there to mess things up again. Is that actually the case?


Pretty much correct, not touching the toxic make comment though lol.

Thing is she is as bad if not worse than Wesley for the Deus ex crap, so it's not like trek hasn't done it before, I'm hoping she develops a character at some point in this series though, because at the moment she makes Rei look like a well thought out in depth character by comparison.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/19 22:36:38


Post by: warboss


Thanks. As for the last part, it was equal parts sarcasm/disgust with the hypocrisy of the show in case it wasn't obvious.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/20 20:24:10


Post by: pgmason


I don't think it was a case of her not being able to make the transporter work, so much as not having anywhere to transport to. She'd need to know there was another ship nearby and that it wasn't klingon. She appeared to have no functional sensors or comms.

I definitely hope she stays. She was awesome. I really enjoyed this episode.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/20 21:07:16


Post by: beast_gts


pgmason wrote:
I don't think it was a case of her not being able to make the transporter work, so much as not having anywhere to transport to.

That was my thought as well - Scotty hasn't invented long-range transporters or transporter stasis yet


pgmason wrote:
I definitely hope she stays. She was awesome. I really enjoyed this episode.

Wikipedia says she's a recurring character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
Jet Reno her name was and her introduction was pathetically stupid, open heart surgery, sure im an engineer, brain surgery, sure im an engineer.... utterly stupid, that aside though she had a thing about her that instantly got my attention, maybe its because every other character in the show is so wooden it was nice to have someone who seemed so animated, either way I would like to see more of her too.

Well, we don't know how many of her patients died before they were rescued, or how many she made worse.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/20 22:38:00


Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin


I enjoyed it, good start to a new season.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/20 23:25:47


Post by: chromedog


As soon as that male engineer opened his mouth in that pod, he pretty much sealed his own fate.

A good thing, too. He failed the first rule of starfleet.
Which isn't "Don't interfere" it's "DBAD".
(Kirk also never read that one).


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/21 00:46:16


Post by: AduroT


I was disappointed his shirt wasn’t the red one.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/21 00:48:00


Post by: LordofHats


 AduroT wrote:
I was disappointed his shirt wasn’t the red one.


This just makes me want a Red Shirts TV series. Not Star Trek. The book Red Shirts XD


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/21 01:43:49


Post by: AduroT


 LordofHats wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
I was disappointed his shirt wasn’t the red one.


This just makes me want a Red Shirts TV series. Not Star Trek. The book Red Shirts XD


I want a Red Shirts web series. Just a series of short episodes finding new and entertaining ways to kill of no-name crew.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/21 01:46:53


Post by: LordofHats


 AduroT wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
I was disappointed his shirt wasn’t the red one.


This just makes me want a Red Shirts TV series. Not Star Trek. The book Red Shirts XD


I want a Red Shirts web series. Just a series of short episodes finding new and entertaining ways to kill of no-name crew.


Except for Ensign Jimmy. See, Jimmy's crafty. And paranoid. He's still alive because he questions everything but no one ever listens to Jimmy


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/21 03:17:28


Post by: chromedog


Redshirts did get optioned for a movie but the time period to do anything with it lapsed so it's all Scalzi's ball again.

@LoH: So Ensign Jimmy is part Zathras? Zathras always there, Zathras hears everything but nobody ever listen to Zathras. Zathras always alone, will probably die alone. It is a horrible life, and probably a horrible death.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/21 03:41:46


Post by: trexmeyer


 chromedog wrote:
Redshirts did get optioned for a movie but the time period to do anything with it lapsed so it's all Scalzi's ball again.

@LoH: So Ensign Jimmy is part Zathras? Zathras always there, Zathras hears everything but nobody ever listen to Zathras. Zathras always alone, will probably die alone. It is a horrible life, and probably a horrible death.


But, at least there is symmetry.

Cue Ivanova staring in shock.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/21 13:06:58


Post by: Mr Morden


I enjoyed it but would agree its going to get really tiresome having Michael being the best of the best at well....... everything and apparently the only one who can operate a tricorder etc etc.

Having some one be a better pilot or another come up with solutions was sorely needed.

Was Rebecca Romijn just so bad (or good/) they had to keep chopping her character out of scenes.....hoepfully she will appear properely in the enxt episode.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/21 13:08:45


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


They defo need to make use of the supporting cast.

Traditionally, Trek has spent the first season establishing their leads. So I've got high hopes for this season - spesh as Pike asked them all to sound off with their names.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/25 21:26:57


Post by: Paradigm


Even better episode this week. Proper Treky stuff, and nice to see some classic concepts/setups coming into play, like the bridge crew joining away teams which we didn't really see last season outside of Saru.

It also did a good job of weaving the episode into the wider arc whilst still telling an interesting, self-contained story that works on its own merits.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 00:14:25


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


This was good, classic Trek IMO. Kinda wondering how Jacob's gonna explain the lights coming back online tho.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 08:11:18


Post by: AduroT


 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
This was good, classic Trek IMO. Kinda wondering how Jacob's gonna explain the lights coming back online tho.


A gift from the angel?

But yeah, this episode seems to solidly set what the theme is. Seven lights. Could only pin point the location of one. Leads us to a stranded crew about to die and a cool asteroid. Oh, we can pin point a second light now. Leads us to a planet about to die and we needed the asteroid from light #1 to save them. What a coincidence! What are the odds we get to pin point the third light just in time to prevent some disaster there?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 10:14:40


Post by: BlaxicanX


Would I miss out on much if I skipped S1 entirely and started watching from S2 onward? I care absolutely nothing for Michael and her origin, if that changes anything.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 10:39:25


Post by: Paradigm


In terms of the narrative season 2 is running with, there's not a lot of holdover from S1 so far, so a synopsis will probably get you by. There'll be the odd thing that gets referenced that you'll miss, obviously, but probably nothing you won't pick up from dialogue/context clues and recaps.

You are missing out on some great episodes if you skip it, though. Especially the Mirror Universe arc which was absolutely brilliant (though probably does require watching the rest of the previous episodes for context, at which point you're pretty much watching the whole series).


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 11:28:59


Post by: AduroT


The series is very much the Michael & Co show, so if you don’t care for her it’s probably the wrong show for you to watch.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 17:25:21


Post by: warboss


Well, it looks like they put up the first episode yesterday for free on the cbs all access channel so I watched it. I wasn't particularly impressed as it felt like a two steps forward, two steps back situation compared with last season. I'll just wait until the season is done and rebinge it with a free week.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 18:30:13


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Wait for the second one.

Whilst I’ve enjoyed all of it so far, those saying this particular episode is very Trekky are spot on. Very very trekky.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 18:32:22


Post by: warboss


Unless they also put the second one up for free on youtube, I'll be skipping it until my free trial week/month season binge. There's still too much I dislike about it for me to pay for it on top of the multiple streaming services I already have.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 19:12:43


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Fair. We’re lucky enough to get it on Netflix, so it’s not a show I really consider I’m directly paying for.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 19:19:34


Post by: JohnnyHell


Jean-Luc would like to point out there are four lights. ;-)

The last two episodes haven’t been awful. Whatever happened between seasons has transformed this show into Star Trek, and enjoyable Star Trek at that! I’m pleasantly surprised.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 22:05:54


Post by: LordofHats


To be sure the first episode of Discovery is really cringe worthy. It's awful. Atrocious even. The series doesn't start getting good till halfway through season 1 imo, and I say that as someone who on the whole found the whole season to be weak compared to previous' series.

I'd be more cynical about it, but an weak first season is almost a right of passage in Star Trek.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 22:58:25


Post by: AduroT


I didn’t think the first episode was bad at all. Not terribly Trekkie, but pretty good sci-fi action.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 23:08:10


Post by: trexmeyer


 AduroT wrote:
The series is very much the Michael & Co show, so if you don’t care for her it’s probably the wrong show for you to watch.


That's the best description of it I've seen. I really like the actress and would love to see her in a different leading role, but I really dislike Michael.
Spoiler:
I wonder if there is a role for her in the MCU


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 23:15:38


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I suspect we’ll see further development of her this season. Whether the changes or softens, even hardens opinions of course remains to be seen.

What I think we need to see is her suffering some kind of crisis of confidence or trauma they can build her back up from as a crew.

And please, ep2 made a start fleshing out the supporting cast. More of that please.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 23:19:34


Post by: trexmeyer


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I suspect we’ll see further development of her this season. Whether the changes or softens, even hardens opinions of course remains to be seen.

What I think we need to see is her suffering some kind of crisis of confidence or trauma they can build her back up from as a crew.

And please, ep2 made a start fleshing out the supporting cast. More of that please.


That's the number one difference between Discovery and TNG/DS9/VOY. The latter three actually paid attention to 'secondary' characters. I can't speak to Enterprise, I didn't watch it enough to form a reasonable opinion and TOS was very much the Big 3.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 23:25:57


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


But not immediately so.

Disco has its main four. Michael, Stamets, Saru and Tilly. All are well fleshed out so far. Last episode we found out some cool info about Lt Owosekun, so they seem to have started.

And I think the others will get their moments in coming episodes. After all, Pike just wanting names was in my opinion a tacit admission they’d not established them as characters in the first season. Hell, I even had to google Owosekun’s name.

But a start is a start, and is to be encouraged.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 23:45:28


Post by: Formosa


Tilly is irritating as hell, she seems so imature to be even considered for command, but that being said I give her a pass in the same manner I give Wesley a pass, every series had that annoying character at the start.

Stamets I quite like, although I don't think the show will go anywhere meaningful with him.

Michael is terrible and even more annoying than tilly, someone needs to come along and dress her down hard.

Saru should just be made captain already, he/it is my favourite character of the series so far.

Pike.... Meh, not really much to go on yet.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/26 23:53:30


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Really?

Tilly is my standout character, and the one with the most development so far. A mere Cadet at the start, and clearly one questioning whether she’s in the right place.

From there she’s grown into a more confident scientist, and shown at least flashes of brilliance. She’s also achieved the rank of Ensign.

She’s ace!


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 00:29:50


Post by: Formosa


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Really?

Tilly is my standout character, and the one with the most development so far. A mere Cadet at the start, and clearly one questioning whether she’s in the right place.

From there she’s grown into a more confident scientist, and shown at least flashes of brilliance. She’s also achieved the rank of Ensign.

She’s ace!


If she was under my command she would never be considered for any leadership role until she got herself in order, she is too rash, emotional and unpredictable, I get thats the point of the story arc for her so i am willing to give it a pass like i said before, I get the feeling they want her to be bloody annoying on purpose though.

but if you like her thats cool, different strokes for different folks eh


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 00:29:50


Post by: warboss


Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Fair. We’re lucky enough to get it on Netflix, so it’s not a show I really consider I’m directly paying for.


Yeah, if it were on Netflix in the US then I wouldn't care either but it's CBS All Access only. At least in Canada, it's also for "free" on their version of the SYFY channel and if it were here on that channel it also wouldn't be an issue. They unfortunately chose to over-monetize their single biggest market with a mediocre at best show. Obviously YMMV.

Formosa wrote:Tilly is irritating as hell, she seems so imature to be even considered for command, but that being said I give her a pass in the same manner I give Wesley a pass, every series had that annoying character at the start.


Tilly was part of the quartet of characters last season whose actors I think did a good job (the others being Lorca until he became a political cartoon villain, Culber, and Saru). That said... her awkwardness was *WAY* overdone in that episode especially in Pike's bridge DNA scan scene and even I found her irritating at that point. Again, YMMV.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 01:36:02


Post by: trexmeyer


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Really?

Tilly is my standout character, and the one with the most development so far. A mere Cadet at the start, and clearly one questioning whether she’s in the right place.

From there she’s grown into a more confident scientist, and shown at least flashes of brilliance. She’s also achieved the rank of Ensign.

She’s ace!


Tilly comes across as being written specifically for the Tumblr crowd. Now, I'll admit I may be a bit prejudiced against her for reasons that I may not be fully comprehend, but on the other hand if I compare her to Miles O'Brien, who I consider to be a very similar character in that both are goofy engineering wizards, she doesn't come across as bad. She's still lacking in depth relative to Miles, but it took years for him to develop.

I may have to rewatch S1 to gauge just how emotional she is actually.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 01:45:11


Post by: Mr Morden


Michael needs to be wrong sometimes and be called out for it and have others do stuff that suprises or shocks her. She is hugely overused at the moment.

The first episode did have some nice bits wth the other cast - need to carry on with that - espeically the rather cute Keyla Detmer, Conn officer - also most of them do seem to have fun

Tilly was def VERY annoying at the start of the show but shedoes work quite well but command material is reaching......

Also be nice to have bit more ont he wierd robot lady?

I did think sneezing bug alien was weak - especailly since it did not get out of the lift when the senior staff and visiting command staff walked in talking shop.....


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 10:17:24


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I dunno.

Mirror Cap. Killy shows she’s got the know-wots inside her. To take a raw recruit and have their journey through the ranks followed works for me, especially if we get to see the person beneath the uniform mature.

Certainly better than The Eternal Ensign, Harry Kim :p


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 12:34:15


Post by: Paradigm


Tilly fits in with Discovery's trio of characters who represent the classic Trek/Starfleet ideals, but from the perspective of people who aren't the absolute pinnacle of their respective roles that previous series have had (Kirk and Picard both peerless captains, Spock the quintessential scientist, LaForge or Scotty genius engineers). I think it's a key thrust of the show; this is Starfleet as done by regular mortals.

You have Saru, the Captain-in-waiting who is overshadowed both by his predecessors in Georgiou and Lorca and now by his 'replacement' in Pike. He's clearly got the skills to step up to the plate when it counts, but the obstacles are always there and you kind of get the feeling that he'd struggle in the shadow of the other captains were he to get the role full-time. As great a leader as he might be, he also strikes me as someone who's almost too compassionate to make hard calls, while at the same time lacking the level of bravado or diplomatic skill that got Kirk and Picard respectively through so many situations like that.

Then you have Stamets. He's a genius at what he does, but locked in a constant battle with the ramifications of his work, and now with his own psyche and what it's cost him as well. Frankly, go back a few decades and he's exactly the sort of character who might appear as the 'villain' in a TNG episode, Picard and co. coming in to shut down his unethical science and refusing to hear his arguments that it's necessary to allow Discovery to do its job. Now, though, he's having that battle with himself instead, and in many ways that's a lot more interesting way of looking at a 'greater good' narrative over a longer period.

And then Tilly, the idealist, the dreamer, the one who could, in time, become one of Starfleet's brightest and best but who is grappling with an insecurity, almost a sense of impostor syndrome which I imagine will only get worse as she progresses through the command training program and is constantly being reminded how young and inexperienced she is. Not to mention that on any ship other than Discovery, she'd be shut down in seconds if she tried bursting onto the bridge with a crazy, untested and dangerous plan. Her arc will be learning to stand on her own two feet and trust in her own abilities, while also being a little less immature.

I think all of this is captured in the moment in series one where you have this exchange, on reworking the spore drive with the Tardigrade (I think):

Tilly: That's really ing cool! Oops, sorry!
Stamets: No, you're right. It is really ing cool.

Because that's the contrast Discovery runs on. The contrast between the high-minded, Utopian future of Treks past and the regular, fallible, 'human' people who actually make that future work. Throughout the series, they've broken convention, they've screwed up, they've risked losing the very things that make them Starfleet. Unlike TOS or TNG, they do make mistakes and they don't always find the right answers to the quandary of the week, and then they have to struggle with that going forward. Burnham fits this mould to a certain extent, but it's in Tilly, Stamets and Saru that I think it's most clearly distilled.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 12:41:39


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I’d agree with that.

The people we’re seeing are all flawed in some way. Michael is caught between literal human nature, and her Vulcan upbringing. Tilly, as you said, impostor Syndrome and youthful verve that needs tempering. Stamets is a bucket of Weasels in the mental health department, because of his dedication. Saru? He’s got the experience and the knowledge, but perhaps not the temperament to be a truly effective Captain.

These are all things which they can overcome, and I look forward to that being explored.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 13:46:14


Post by: Formosa


I like your breakdown paradigm but you are assigning all of that to the series, it hasn't been shown, show me don't tell me is a good way of putting it, we have had an entire season for that kind of development and even through a war, the thing that forces maturity and change the fastest, none of those characters, bar stamets and saru, had ANY real change, even then it's a stretch.

I am hoping this series helps address these issues though.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 14:12:04


Post by: Mr Morden


The ongoig issue does seem to remain that they keep giving Michael multiple roles

So she is the consciounce of the ship and the only one who speaks up
She is apparently the only one who does the science stuff on the bridge and on away teams
She often takes command of everyone else - so the first episode has her barking commands to the actual engineering commander how to get the transporter working and Pike just moves the odd steel pipe and does notthing else.
She is the one that figures out that you could look for a chunck of asteroid
She is the best pilot (of course) and at the same time a better scientist and anyone who questions her dies to show how awesome and right she is..
etc etc
Its quite annoying.

Hopefully they will let other characters actually carry out thier own tasks


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 14:21:46


Post by: LordofHats


 Mr Morden wrote:
The ongoig issue does seem to remain that they keep giving Michael multiple roles

So she is the consciounce of the ship and the only one who speaks up
She is apparently the only one who does the science stuff on the bridge and on away teams
She often takes command of everyone else - so the first episode has her barking commands to the actual engineering commander how to get the transporter working and Pike just moves the odd steel pipe and does notthing else.
She is the one that figures out that you could look for a chunck of asteroid
She is the best pilot (of course) and at the same time a better scientist and anyone who questions her dies to show how awesome and right she is..
etc etc
Its quite annoying.

Hopefully they will let other characters actually carry out thier own tasks


Throw in her bizarre background suddenly relating her in a contrived way to a previous canon character and how everyone respects and likes her who doesn't die and you have a classic Mary Sue, which is almost funny since this is Star Trek.

It's the biggest drag on the series by far.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 14:41:44


Post by: Formosa


 LordofHats wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
The ongoig issue does seem to remain that they keep giving Michael multiple roles

So she is the consciounce of the ship and the only one who speaks up
She is apparently the only one who does the science stuff on the bridge and on away teams
She often takes command of everyone else - so the first episode has her barking commands to the actual engineering commander how to get the transporter working and Pike just moves the odd steel pipe and does notthing else.
She is the one that figures out that you could look for a chunck of asteroid
She is the best pilot (of course) and at the same time a better scientist and anyone who questions her dies to show how awesome and right she is..
etc etc
Its quite annoying.

Hopefully they will let other characters actually carry out thier own tasks


Throw in her bizarre background suddenly relating her in a contrived way to a previous canon character and how everyone respects and likes her who doesn't die and you have a classic Mary Sue, which is almost funny since this is Star Trek.

It's the biggest drag on the series by far.



I know right



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 18:02:17


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

I do get where you’re coming from, but all that can be easily dialled back with a crisis of confidence. Knock her down several pegs following a failed personal challenge/interest. See her human side come out, where she decides it’s better to focus on one area and truly excel, then move on to the next.

This lets the other crew members play a larger role.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/27 21:04:41


Post by: warboss


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

I do get where you’re coming from, but all that can be easily dialled back with a crisis of confidence. Knock her down several pegs following a failed personal challenge/interest. See her human side come out, where she decides it’s better to focus on one area and truly excel, then move on to the next.


If committing mutiny and being responsible for the deaths of thousands of starfleet personnel as a result (not to mention indirectly responsible for millions of other Federation citizen deaths in the subsequent months) wasn't enough of a crisis of confidence in the writer's eyes to humble her character for more than just a few episodes in season one, I'm not sure anything will work. She's just that badly written of a character and that's the fault of the writers and showrunners (not the actress).


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/28 07:54:39


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


If Burnham hadn't pulled the trigger on the war the Klingons would have. They weren't exactly there to schmooze. I think a better criticism would be that the start of the war would have been more impactful and tragic if the war wasn't inevitable; instead we got the Klingon Klux Klan. Imagine if the Klingons didn't actually want the war but Burnham, and by extension the Federation, pulled the trigger anyway because of fear.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/28 08:11:51


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 warboss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

I do get where you’re coming from, but all that can be easily dialled back with a crisis of confidence. Knock her down several pegs following a failed personal challenge/interest. See her human side come out, where she decides it’s better to focus on one area and truly excel, then move on to the next.


If committing mutiny and being responsible for the deaths of thousands of starfleet personnel as a result (not to mention indirectly responsible for millions of other Federation citizen deaths in the subsequent months) wasn't enough of a crisis of confidence in the writer's eyes to humble her character for more than just a few episodes in season one, I'm not sure anything will work. She's just that badly written of a character and that's the fault of the writers and showrunners (not the actress).


I disagree. She knew her course of action could’ve avoided the war. And for now, she’s arrogant enough to continue down the path of ‘but I know best’.

Let something properly blow up in her face. Let one her plans go catastrophically wrong, and get people killed or maimed (maimed might be better) because she was so convinced she knew best. Make the deciding factor in that plan being chosen her own reputation. Give her something to properly chew over.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/28 11:14:30


Post by: StygianBeach


 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If Burnham hadn't pulled the trigger on the war the Klingons would have. They weren't exactly there to schmooze. I think a better criticism would be that the start of the war would have been more impactful and tragic if the war wasn't inevitable; instead we got the Klingon Klux Klan. Imagine if the Klingons didn't actually want the war but Burnham, and by extension the Federation, pulled the trigger anyway because of fear.


Yeah, my biggest gripe with Disco so far is how thematically jingoistic it all started. Also there has to be some sort of fight every episode which I find tedious.

Both sides not wanting war sounds too much like traditional Star Trek and so far I get the impression that writers don't actualky like Star Trek, so are doing their own thing.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/28 12:26:53


Post by: AduroT


My take away from the start of Disco was that the Klingons were going to start the war because they hated the weak humans and their whole we come in peace thing. Michael’s plan of shoot first could have actually worked to prevent it, but she was stopped from carrying it out.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/28 13:28:33


Post by: Mr Morden


 StygianBeach wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If Burnham hadn't pulled the trigger on the war the Klingons would have. They weren't exactly there to schmooze. I think a better criticism would be that the start of the war would have been more impactful and tragic if the war wasn't inevitable; instead we got the Klingon Klux Klan. Imagine if the Klingons didn't actually want the war but Burnham, and by extension the Federation, pulled the trigger anyway because of fear.


Yeah, my biggest gripe with Disco so far is how thematically jingoistic it all started. Also there has to be some sort of fight every episode which I find tedious.

Both sides not wanting war sounds too much like traditional Star Trek and so far I get the impression that writers don't actualky like Star Trek, so are doing their own thing.



No fights in either Episode one or Two of Season Two? The whole of Season One was about the Federation-Kilngon war so yeah...

Also not like "traditional" Star Trek - have you watched the Original Series -


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/28 15:32:23


Post by: StygianBeach


 Mr Morden wrote:
 StygianBeach wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If Burnham hadn't pulled the trigger on the war the Klingons would have. They weren't exactly there to schmooze. I think a better criticism would be that the start of the war would have been more impactful and tragic if the war wasn't inevitable; instead we got the Klingon Klux Klan. Imagine if the Klingons didn't actually want the war but Burnham, and by extension the Federation, pulled the trigger anyway because of fear.


Yeah, my biggest gripe with Disco so far is how thematically jingoistic it all started. Also there has to be some sort of fight every episode which I find tedious.

Both sides not wanting war sounds too much like traditional Star Trek and so far I get the impression that writers don't actualky like Star Trek, so are doing their own thing.



No fights in either Episode one or Two of Season Two? The whole of Season One was about the Federation-Kilngon war so yeah...

Also not like "traditional" Star Trek - have you watched the Original Series -


I plan on watching season 2 of Disco after I get through Mr robot.

Season 1's Federation-Kilngon war was no excuse for the forced fight scene every episode.

If you are implying that season 2 is more like TOS then I look forward to watching it because apart from the 180 tone switch (away from Jingoism) from the last episode of season 1, I did not get a Star Trek vibe from Disco.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/28 18:34:28


Post by: Mr Morden


 StygianBeach wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 StygianBeach wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If Burnham hadn't pulled the trigger on the war the Klingons would have. They weren't exactly there to schmooze. I think a better criticism would be that the start of the war would have been more impactful and tragic if the war wasn't inevitable; instead we got the Klingon Klux Klan. Imagine if the Klingons didn't actually want the war but Burnham, and by extension the Federation, pulled the trigger anyway because of fear.


Yeah, my biggest gripe with Disco so far is how thematically jingoistic it all started. Also there has to be some sort of fight every episode which I find tedious.

Both sides not wanting war sounds too much like traditional Star Trek and so far I get the impression that writers don't actualky like Star Trek, so are doing their own thing.



No fights in either Episode one or Two of Season Two? The whole of Season One was about the Federation-Kilngon war so yeah...

Also not like "traditional" Star Trek - have you watched the Original Series -


I plan on watching season 2 of Disco after I get through Mr robot.

Season 1's Federation-Kilngon war was no excuse for the forced fight scene every episode.

If you are implying that season 2 is more like TOS then I look forward to watching it because apart from the 180 tone switch (away from Jingoism) from the last episode of season 1, I did not get a Star Trek vibe from Disco.


No - more that fighting takes place in most OS episodes - maybe Next Gen has less - I can't recall, there is a reason that the old song had "We come in peace - shoot to kill"

Most tv shows have some action for the audience somewhere - especially sci-fi?

I have my own issues with ST: but having a fight is not one of them


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/01/29 10:35:33


Post by: Ratius


Two very meh episodes for me opening Season 2.
Especially the second where they literally shoe horned in a Prime Directive episode - why break with ST tradition huh? Ho hum.
Whats worse was the humans they encountered couldnt have been more boring - I simply didnt care if they got nuked.

E1 was too drawn out - the whole descending to the stranded ship seemed like one big excuse to show off their CGI budget and there was a whole lot of not-so-interesting sub character angles that could have been left on the editing suite floor.

Will need a vast improvement to get back to S1s enjoyment and hold my attention,


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/04 10:20:45


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


I think Orks are the cooler psychic space fungus.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/04 13:17:24


Post by: Mr Morden


Not a bad third episode mostly because

Spoiler:
The Emperor is back!


If I was one of the other officer candidates - i 'd be wondering why they are even bothering to rest Tilly - whatever she does she is going to be given a pass by the senior officers. She could shoot people in the head and just get a "Ohh Tilly" If its competative - no one else should bother.

Klingons get hair "back" -


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/04 13:25:46


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I really enjoyed the third episode.

Nice to see some callback to Season 1, and it's ending. I'm also interested to see where they go with Tilly's 'friend'.

Might need to give it a second watch.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/04 13:32:10


Post by: AduroT


How fast can Tilly run?! She full out stops for a bit to argue with her not-so-imaginary friend, and still comes back to win the race!


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/04 13:37:44


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Well, if the others were jogging, and she used the brief period of recovery for a sprint finish?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/04 14:42:04


Post by: Formosa


Well I give every series 3 episodes at least in order to pull me in, so far my bias towards star trek has let this crap keep me for a season and 3 episodes....

This series is crap, the writing is crap, the actors are crap and a series perfect for all that modern sjw stuff and they can't even get that right.

Seriously how can any of you call this trash good? Are you new to trek? Do you have low standards? Do you not notice the problems? Do you just ignore them?

Im annoyed because trek is my favourite show, and all I see is this getting cancelled and having to wait another decade for a new series.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/04 17:03:44


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Or we just have different opinions and that?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/04 17:36:53


Post by: Mr Morden


 Formosa wrote:
Well I give every series 3 episodes at least in order to pull me in, so far my bias towards star trek has let this crap keep me for a season and 3 episodes....

This series is crap, the writing is crap, the actors are crap and a series perfect for all that modern sjw stuff and they can't even get that right.

Seriously how can any of you call this trash good? Are you new to trek? Do you have low standards? Do you not notice the problems? Do you just ignore them?

Im annoyed because trek is my favourite show, and all I see is this getting cancelled and having to wait another decade for a new series.


Different people like different stuff ? I have watched all the Trek and this is actually pretty good - IMO.

Its far suprior to most of Voyager, Enterprise and early Next Gen (Seriously that is really awful) but I also do find issues

eg: Most of the time they might as well call it Star Trek: Tilly and Burnham as no one else matters or can do anything,
Pike is bascially junior officer to Burnham
Till gets a pass whatever she does and yep she should have finished last - plus all the senior staff go out of their way to praise her all the time. On a military ship how is she allowed to be that fat with no explanation? If it was next gen - no issues as they have civiliansm but this is a military ship.
Burnham is just the bestest ever - all the time....

On the other hand:

When Pike actually gets to do stuff he is cool and like his way of thinking.
Klingons getting back to nromal, interesting interactions - is
Spoiler:
the albino child going to be the White One from DS9?

The Emperor and Section 31 are always great
The rest of the crew are to me much more interesting than T and B
It looks good.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/04 18:20:21


Post by: Formosa


fair enough i dont mean to crap on you guys/gals, just frustrated at how bad this show has been so far, I was hoping this season would be different but its more of the same crap.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/06 15:24:55


Post by: pgmason


Personally I've been loving it.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/08 18:46:23


Post by: Souleater


Apart from Tilly being plump for someone in the military what "modern SJW" crimes is Discovery guilty of?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/08 19:17:03


Post by: Formosa


 Souleater wrote:
Apart from Tilly being plump for someone in the military what "modern SJW" crimes is Discovery guilty of?


nothing really major, this isnt star wars, it isnt marvel etc. its star trek and such things belong in star trek and always kinda have been in star trek, if anything its the creators that have cocked up, trying to claim diversity when trek has always been full of diversity, sisko, dax, TOS cast, Voyager etc. etc. every trope they have claimed to cater to has been done before in trek, Burnam is basically just female Wesley but much much more annoying due to script.

Basically they want credit for being the first to bring it to trek and are ignoring all that came before them, a thing that shows very clearly in this series.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/08 19:37:36


Post by: Paradigm


What an episode this week! Classic Trek vibes, some amazing character work from Saru, Stamets and Burnham especially, brilliant script and those last 10 minutes were... intense, to say the least.

BIG spoilers:
Spoiler:

Really thought Saru was a gonner there. Massively relieved to see him pull through, but those 'final' scenes were pretty heavy.

I wonder if Tilly has something of a reunion with Lorca coming up... I'd not bet against him still existing somewhere in the Network after how his 'death' was shot.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/09 10:24:43


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Formosa wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
Apart from Tilly being plump for someone in the military what "modern SJW" crimes is Discovery guilty of?


nothing really major, this isnt star wars, it isnt marvel etc. its star trek and such things belong in star trek and always kinda have been in star trek, if anything its the creators that have cocked up, trying to claim diversity when trek has always been full of diversity, sisko, dax, TOS cast, Voyager etc. etc. every trope they have claimed to cater to has been done before in trek, Burnam is basically just female Wesley but much much more annoying due to script.

Basically they want credit for being the first to bring it to trek and are ignoring all that came before them, a thing that shows very clearly in this series.

It's like when Ubisoft tries to claim "Oh look we're so diverse" with Assassins Creed Odyssey despite doing literally all the same thing in Syndicate. Modern Media companies are relying on the fact most people don't remember past 5 seconds ago and try and appeal to a crowd that wasn't interested in your show to begin with.

STD couldn't have the first Black Captain, or the first Female Captain, so they had to try and push the Black AND Female Captain angle. Next we'll have the first Black Female Captain who has 6 toes on her left foot, or other more specific and meaningless garbage.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/09 10:58:09


Post by: Cybtroll


They could have had the first ALIEN captain goddamit!

The more the show progresses, the more Saru become the more interesting character in the entire show.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/09 10:58:43


Post by: AduroT


Don’t argue with Michael. She’s always right and disagreeing with her increases your chances of death ten fold.

I was really unsure if they were going to go thru with it on Suru (Saru? I don’t actually know how you spell his name...) or not. I was just like there’s no way they’d off him, he too “main”. But they Have been kind of pushing their new token alien guy more... This is going way down to the wire... Aaaaaaaaaaand last second save.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/11 21:13:43


Post by: Mr Morden


Hurrah!

Spoiler:
Tillys gone


Not a bad episode - I thought they had a B5 crossover for a second.....



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 07:08:56


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Souleater wrote:
Apart from Tilly being plump for someone in the military what "modern SJW" crimes is Discovery guilty of?


But Starfleet isn’t military? And Tilly is a scientist?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 10:50:10


Post by: Formosa


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
Apart from Tilly being plump for someone in the military what "modern SJW" crimes is Discovery guilty of?


But Starfleet isn’t military? And Tilly is a scientist?


Has a military structure, has military training, has exclusive access to military grade weaponry, has military grade starships, some of which are clearly warships like the Enterprise (a constitution class cruiser designed for war), Starfleet does not think of itself as a military, everyone else sees it for what it is though, a military.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 12:01:39


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Tilly remains a Scientist though, and not a Soldier?

She's also demonstrably physically fit, so should a bit of lard really matter when she can win a shipboard marathon?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 12:32:41


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


Warships don't waste space building dedicated research labs on board. The Defiant in DS9 is a Warship, the Prometheus-class is a Warship; Discovery isn't (Stamets and Lorca even butted heads over it in S1!). Similarly, the Constitution-class sure has a bunch of facilities that are a waste of space for a warship.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 12:50:19


Post by: Mr Morden


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Tilly remains a Scientist though, and not a Soldier?

She's also demonstrably physically fit, so should a bit of lard really matter when she can win a shipboard marathon?


But she wants to be a captain not a sceintist.....

That bit of the episode was awful, mixed in with the constant fawining over her by senior officers - I quite liked her in the 2nd half of season 1 but this command training programme nonsense is very very poor imo.

We don't know why she is fat in universe.

Starfleet always appears to be military organisation - more so in OS than in Next gen


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 12:53:22


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I was hoping we'd seen the last of the magic space mushrooms, but sadly not. Still, I've enjoyed the series so far. I wonder how long their epic quest will last. And is that the end of the Klingon plot, now that they've crowbarred in the setup for the Captain/Emperor Georgiou spinoff?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 12:55:10


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Captain of a Science vessel.

And if that means shedding some pounds, I'm sure she'll get round to it in due course.

So, basically, why shouldn't a science officer upon a science vessel be expected to be of athletic frame?

Does it really, really need an explanation as to why she's fat, or are people just clutching at straws?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I was hoping we'd seen the last of the magic space mushrooms, but sadly not. Still, I've enjoyed the series so far. I wonder how long their epic quest will last. And is that the end of the Klingon plot, now that they've crowbarred in the setup for the Captain/Emperor Georgiou spinoff?


Unlikely. The signals appear to have some significance to the Klingons as well. So I suspect we'll see them turn up in due course.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 12:58:43


Post by: Mr Morden


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I was hoping we'd seen the last of the magic space mushrooms, but sadly not. Still, I've enjoyed the series so far. I wonder how long their epic quest will last. And is that the end of the Klingon plot, now that they've crowbarred in the setup for the Captain/Emperor Georgiou spinoff?


Its Star Trek = the Klingons will be in it again. I think they need mushroom stuff to give stanits something to do....

the sarcastic engineer is fun

and if its a choice between the Emperor and Section 31 or the Burnham and Tilly show well.....


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 16:34:49


Post by: Just Tony


 Souleater wrote:
Apart from Tilly being plump for someone in the military what "modern SJW" crimes is Discovery guilty of?


She's not even really that plump. Maybe I'm seeing something different...


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 16:47:23


Post by: LordofHats


It might be more accurate to call Star Fleet militant than military. They have the military style command structure, "security" officers and training programs, and ships that are armed and sufficiently armored to go toe to toe with full blown warships from the likes of the Klingon and Romulan Empires.

Indeed I think the whole "we're Starfleet not a military" thing is a line of in-universe lying to themselves. Sure they're not exclusively a standing military force, but they're oddly well capable of standing for one.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 17:20:14


Post by: Mr Morden


 Just Tony wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
Apart from Tilly being plump for someone in the military what "modern SJW" crimes is Discovery guilty of?


She's not even really that plump. Maybe I'm seeing something different...


She loks pretty fat to me - but thats also hihghlighted by that fact no one else is - for all the "she is just a scientist" - well so are others on the ship and no else is fat?

If they had wanted it to be in tune with the increasingly large viewer population then they should have had some more big lads and lasses wondering about. I mean its not a CW show is it



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 18:31:38


Post by: Just Tony


LordofHats wrote:It might be more accurate to call Star Fleet militant than military. They have the military style command structure, "security" officers and training programs, and ships that are armed and sufficiently armored to go toe to toe with full blown warships from the likes of the Klingon and Romulan Empires.

Indeed I think the whole "we're Starfleet not a military" thing is a line of in-universe lying to themselves. Sure they're not exclusively a standing military force, but they're oddly well capable of standing for one.


I think I remember a TNG episode that focused on them being "paramilitary", which I think was Berman-ese for "Need to create an out to tell my type of stories".

Mr Morden wrote:
 Just Tony wrote:
 Souleater wrote:
Apart from Tilly being plump for someone in the military what "modern SJW" crimes is Discovery guilty of?


She's not even really that plump. Maybe I'm seeing something different...


She loks pretty fat to me - but thats also hihghlighted by that fact no one else is - for all the "she is just a scientist" - well so are others on the ship and no else is fat?

If they had wanted it to be in tune with the increasingly large viewer population then they should have had some more big lads and lasses wondering about. I mean its not a CW show is it



I still remember the pictures of Camryn Manheim in a bikini. I won't ever look at someone like Tilly and think they're fat.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 19:18:35


Post by: Mr Morden


That Camryn lady is a large woman.

Still Tilly just makes me think




Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 20:22:13


Post by: Formosa


 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Warships don't waste space building dedicated research labs on board. The Defiant in DS9 is a Warship, the Prometheus-class is a Warship; Discovery isn't (Stamets and Lorca even butted heads over it in S1!). Similarly, the Constitution-class sure has a bunch of facilities that are a waste of space for a warship.


Military grade weapons and ships, not warships, the intention is a ship that is capable of defending itself, but having the ability to glass a continent in a few min is a bit excessive in that regard, if i were the romulans or klingons i would not trust a damn word starfleet said either

The defiant was not the first warship though, the Reliant class was, then the constitution class, its a heavy cruiser designed to take on the klingons, now STD may want to change this but since its not prime universe its not canon anyway, the Defiant (Defiant class DS9) was designed to take on the borg, but mothballed by starfleet as they became too complacent and the borg did not attack again, however after the dominion war kicked off they refitted most of the fleet and went on a full military standing, so the galaxy class refit, excellsior class refit etc. all were upgunned with type 10 phaser arrays, quantum launchers and heavyier shielding, that is also the promethius class was put into development, the novels post dominion war show what a post war full military style starfleet is like, then the Borg invade en mass.....


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 20:36:00


Post by: LordofHats


 Formosa wrote:
then the constitution class, its a heavy cruiser designed to take on the klingons, now STD may want to change this but since its not prime universe its not canon anyway


Technically it's not. Only the TV episodes and movies (minus the Animated series which is ambiguous) are canon. The Constitution class being a heavy cruiser designed to fight the Klingon's comes from the FASA RPG game and was never canon. Actually I think the only mention even close to that in canon is in STIII when the Klingon's refer to the Enterprise as a Battle Cruiser, but that could just be how the Klingon's look at the Constitution class. In fact the plaque for the Enterprise identifies it as "Starship Class" XD


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 20:57:35


Post by: Mr Morden


 LordofHats wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
then the constitution class, its a heavy cruiser designed to take on the klingons, now STD may want to change this but since its not prime universe its not canon anyway


Technically it's not. Only the TV episodes and movies (minus the Animated series which is ambiguous) are canon. The Constitution class being a heavy cruiser designed to fight the Klingon's comes from the FASA RPG game and was never canon. Actually I think the only mention even close to that in canon is in STIII when the Klingon's refer to the Enterprise as a Battle Cruiser, but that could just be how the Klingon's look at the Constitution class. In fact the plaque for the Enterprise identifies it as "Starship Class" XD


Yeah and when HMS Invincible was built they called it a "through deck cruiser" because they were not allowed to build aircraft carriers.

You could from an alien pov def see the Federation as akin to the East India Company (or the Culture) - they want to meet you, trade with you, work with you..........civilise you. Def get that vibe from the Original series anyway.

The Culture build few warships either - but their "civilan" ships are very very powerful. Same with the Feds.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 20:59:52


Post by: Formosa


 LordofHats wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
then the constitution class, its a heavy cruiser designed to take on the klingons, now STD may want to change this but since its not prime universe its not canon anyway


Technically it's not. Only the TV episodes and movies (minus the Animated series which is ambiguous) are canon. The Constitution class being a heavy cruiser designed to fight the Klingon's comes from the FASA RPG game and was never canon. Actually I think the only mention even close to that in canon is in STIII when the Klingon's refer to the Enterprise as a Battle Cruiser, but that could just be how the Klingon's look at the Constitution class. In fact the plaque for the Enterprise identifies it as "Starship Class" XD



Oooo, not quite, but it was wrath of khan that showed it was a heavy cruiser IIRC, the plaque is starship class, and it's a class 1 heavy cruiser.

[Thumb - Constitution_diagram.jpg]


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:09:31


Post by: LordofHats


Oh. How interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr Morden wrote:
You could from an alien pov def see the Federation as akin to the East India Company (or the Culture) - they want to meet you, trade with you, work with you..........civilise you. Def get that vibe from the Original series anyway.

The Culture build few warships either - but their "civilan" ships are very very powerful. Same with the Feds.


It gets brought up in DS9 too. I think it was one of the Maquis characters, accusing the Federation of being "soft" on the Cardassians because the Federation just assumes that eventually everyone will be a member. Martok has a similar line, where he reminds Worf, "we are Klingons. We don't understand other cultures we conquer them" which is a pretty big juxtaposition of how the Federation goes about things.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:25:23


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Starfleet Wiki

Not a military.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for uniforms and ranks?

You’re out in deep space. Part of a crew of over 100. Chances are you don’t really know peeps outside your own section all that well.

When things go wrong, you benefit from a clear chain of command. Same as my place at work. There’s three levels for my role, then Senior, followed by Advisor (same level, different specialisations), then the managers with three levels, Leaders. All in one pod. If something goes awry, I know who to kick the ball to. And we are most definitely a civilian organisation!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
From the Defiant’s wiki?

The ship's backstory is outlined in its first appearance, the third-season episode "The Search". The Defiant is a prototype vessel for the Defiant-class warship, originally developed to counter the Borg threat. It is officially designated as an escort vessel to avoid giving the impression that Starfleet builds warships, as it is primarily a peacekeeping and exploration force. Following the Borg invasion, the United Federation of Planets approved a project committed to enhancing Starfleet's offensive and defensive military capabilities; the Defiant was the end result of that project. According to his statement in the episode "Defiant", Benjamin Sisko (Avery Brooks) was in charge of the shipyard where the Defiant was built and helped design it during his assignment to the Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:39:47


Post by: Mr Morden


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Starfleet Wiki

Not a military.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for uniforms and ranks?

You’re out in deep space. Part of a crew of over 100. Chances are you don’t really know peeps outside your own section all that well.

When things go wrong, you benefit from a clear chain of command. Same as my place at work. There’s three levels for my role, then Senior, followed by Advisor (same level, different specialisations), then the managers with three levels, Leaders. All in one pod. If something goes awry, I know who to kick the ball to. And we are most definitely a civilian organisation!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
From the Defiant’s wiki?

The ship's backstory is outlined in its first appearance, the third-season episode "The Search". The Defiant is a prototype vessel for the Defiant-class warship, originally developed to counter the Borg threat. It is officially designated as an escort vessel to avoid giving the impression that Starfleet builds warships, as it is primarily a peacekeeping and exploration force. Following the Borg invasion, the United Federation of Planets approved a project committed to enhancing Starfleet's offensive and defensive military capabilities; the Defiant was the end result of that project. According to his statement in the episode "Defiant", Benjamin Sisko (Avery Brooks) was in charge of the shipyard where the Defiant was built and helped design it during his assignment to the Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards.


a service maintained by the United Federation of Planets ("the Federation") as the principal means for conducting deep-space exploration, research, defense, peacekeeping, and diplomacy


The Royal Navy website:
Protecting our nations interest, guardian, diplomat and Humanatarian force for good.


They would probably have added exploration if there was much of the surface ocean left to explore.....and in the olden days thats what they did.

Also Starfleet, unlike most civilian organisations a Starship Captain represents and can make policy and or War as he or she wills, they will have to answer for their actions - but they make the big descions on behalf of the entire Federation.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:42:20


Post by: Formosa


Military grade weapons, military grade starships, some designed for war, military rank structure, military training, exclusive use of firearms, military uniforms, military court martials, military bill of rights, military law, military enforcement of federation policy including forced relocation of people i can go on.

In universe they dont consider themselves a military, they consider themselves an exploration force and peacekeepers, but they can think whatever they want, the other alpha quadrant powers know they are a military force and can project that force where needed, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its probably a duck.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:42:39


Post by: LordofHats




Yes, completely non-military. That's why they have a tactical division, and an intelligence branch.

I think your confusing the commentary of viewers as outside observers with the position of in-universe characters. Unless we assume in universe opinions are infallible (oh boy) then there's no reason to take what characters say and think as absolute truth, especially when their outlook clashes with obvious observations.

EDIT: Added quote for clarity.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:46:14


Post by: Formosa


is that reply to me lord?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:47:47


Post by: LordofHats


 Formosa wrote:
is that reply to me lord?


No. Mad Doc. I think you and I mostly agree on this.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:49:17


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


During the Golden Age Of Sail, civilian ships could be found toting cannons.

Why? For protection. To dissuade piracy. Same reason they kept small arms aboard.

Same out in space, when your exploring the unknown.

Does some spod in the street carrying a rifle make them military?

Does a Cruise Ship having a Captain make them Navy? Or an Airline Captain make a 747 part of the RAF? Despite both having uniforms? No. Of course it doesn’t.

All this because someone seems to object to a character being overweight, and demands an ‘in-universe’ reason. Here’s a hint. I’m overweight because I eat too much (my portion control is non-existent) and drink too much beer (10 has been known to be a quiet night. Pints, Mark you). Can’t begin to imagine why Tilly isn’t of svelete, athletic build. Total mystery.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:50:57


Post by: Just Tony


Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Starfleet Wiki

Not a military.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for uniforms and ranks?

You’re out in deep space. Part of a crew of over 100. Chances are you don’t really know peeps outside your own section all that well.

When things go wrong, you benefit from a clear chain of command. Same as my place at work. There’s three levels for my role, then Senior, followed by Advisor (same level, different specialisations), then the managers with three levels, Leaders. All in one pod. If something goes awry, I know who to kick the ball to. And we are most definitely a civilian organisation!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
From the Defiant’s wiki?

The ship's backstory is outlined in its first appearance, the third-season episode "The Search". The Defiant is a prototype vessel for the Defiant-class warship, originally developed to counter the Borg threat. It is officially designated as an escort vessel to avoid giving the impression that Starfleet builds warships, as it is primarily a peacekeeping and exploration force. Following the Borg invasion, the United Federation of Planets approved a project committed to enhancing Starfleet's offensive and defensive military capabilities; the Defiant was the end result of that project. According to his statement in the episode "Defiant", Benjamin Sisko (Avery Brooks) was in charge of the shipyard where the Defiant was built and helped design it during his assignment to the Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards.


You're quoting Wikipedia to prove your point? The same Wikipedia that can be edited by ANYONE and is immediately dismissed out of hand as a valid source?

You'd have done better to link to and quote Memory Alpha, but I suspect there might be a reason you didn't.

Formosa wrote:Military grade weapons, military grade starships, some designed for war, military rank structure, military training, exclusive use of firearms, military uniforms, military court martials, military bill of rights, military law, military enforcement of federation policy including forced relocation of people i can go on.

In universe they dont consider themselves a military, they consider themselves an exploration force and peacekeepers, but they can think whatever they want, the other alpha quadrant powers know they are a military force and can project that force where needed, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its probably a duck.


LordofHats wrote:


Yes, completely non-military. That's why they have a tactical division, and an intelligence branch.

I think your confusing the commentary of viewers as outside observers with the position of in-universe characters. Unless we assume in universe opinions are infallible (oh boy) then there's no reason to take what characters say and think as absolute truth, especially when their outlook clashes with obvious observations.

EDIT: Added quote for clarity.


These two have the right of it. Picard refers to Starfleet as a paramilitary organization in at least one episode.


Seriously, am I on ignore by the entire site here?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:54:52


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Memoryalpha.

Says exactly the same.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet

Wiki simply came up first when I searched ‘Starfleet Charter’

Starfleet. Still not a military.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:55:34


Post by: Formosa


no tony, you are not


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:56:07


Post by: Mr Morden


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
During the Golden Age Of Sail, civilian ships could be found toting cannons.

Why? For protection. To dissuade piracy. Same reason they kept small arms aboard.

Same out in space, when your exploring the unknown.

Does some spod in the street carrying a rifle make them military?

Does a Cruise Ship having a Captain make them Navy? Or an Airline Captain make a 747 part of the RAF? Despite both having uniforms? No. Of course it doesn’t.

All this because someone seems to object to a character being overweight, and demands an ‘in-universe’ reason. Here’s a hint. I’m overweight because I eat too much (my portion control is non-existent) and drink too much beer (10 has been known to be a quiet night. Pints, Mark you). Can’t begin to imagine why Tilly isn’t of svelete, athletic build. Total mystery.


And many of those civiilan ships were either heavily restricted or military/traders/privateers - back to the East India Company

Are you really that upset that the Federation is in fact a military by every defination - it just does not consider itself.

I don't object t Tilly being overweight, but why pretend she is some kind of super athlete - thats actually more insulting, there will be a reason for her wieght - genetics, greed, her needy personality etc just like there is the real world. I guess they just wanted a larger woman to be an example or something....but just the one, and we'll pretend that its not issue at all.

As I said - every other character appears to be fit - especially the other cadets on the Command training programme. But of course Tilly is super special.....


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:56:31


Post by: Formosa


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Memoryalpha.

Says exactly the same.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet

Wiki simply came up first when I searched ‘Starfleet Charter’

Starfleet. Still not a military.


Starfleet is not a military to starfleet, to everyone else both in and out of universe, its a military.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:57:01


Post by: LordofHats


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
All this because someone seems to object to a character being overweight, and demands an ‘in-universe’ reason. Here’s a hint. I’m overweight because I eat too much (my portion control is non-existent) and drink too much beer (10 has been known to be a quiet night. Pints, Mark you). Can’t begin to imagine why Tilly isn’t of svelete, athletic build. Total mystery.


To be fair, in Voyager one crewman was called out by Tuvok for being out of shape and overweight (and was shown to struggle when Tuvok started him on an exercise regime). It's not like it's unheard of that Starfleet has physical requirements, or unreasonable given what Starfleet officers do (do they still have life insurance in the 24th century?).

I find Tilly mostly off putting because she doesn't seem like the kind of person who would fit in with a regimented organization like Starfleet. That's mostly down to her personality though, not strictly her weight.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:57:19


Post by: BaconCatBug


Starfleet isn't a military the same way the Korean War wasn't actually a war.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:58:24


Post by: Formosa


Oh the tilly thing lol, forgot about that, look i have no issues with it, i have seen absolute bloaters pass PFT somehow, so disgusting fat bodies (FMJ ref) are fine as long as you can pull that lizard body around and do your job, i know first hand, im a fatty and still do my job.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 21:59:59


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Man, you guys really don’t get it, do you? At all. No canonical source has Starfleet as a military force.

But it must do, because that means you can rag on Tilly for being overweight, having run out of other criticisms.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 22:00:01


Post by: Mr Morden


@ Just tony - we are all saying the same thing.

The Federation's Starfleet does not call itself a military but to any independant or dispassionate observer it is. Its not a bad thing - just a truth.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 22:05:33


Post by: Formosa


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Man, you guys really don’t get it, do you? At all. No canonical source has Starfleet as a military force.

But it must do, because that means you can rag on Tilly for being overweight, having run out of other criticisms.


yes it does, every episode of every series of star trek shows quite clearly the federation is a military force, it also shows quite clearly that it does not consider itself a military force, also, if its not a military why does it have warships?

Edit: oh and like i said, i have no issues with tilly being fat, in fact i see a lot of fat woman in the army every day, that is the most realistic thing STD has, a woman that looks like the normal kind of woman you find in the military.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 22:13:51


Post by: LordofHats


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Man, you guys really don’t get it, do you? At all. No canonical source has Starfleet as a military force.


It's really not hard to take canon as "Starfleet is a military force that doesn't call itself one."

Starfleet operates as the Federations defacto defense force during wartime, making any claim to not being a military ideological, rather than technical. Sisko openly calls the Defiant a warship. The Federation calls it an escort for PR reasons. The Sovereign and Prometheus classes are also openly called regarded as warships. Pretty sure there are times where Picard and even Kirk discuss how Starfleet isn't a military, but I think the subtext is pretty strong by the time we get to the end of DS9 and Voyager that Starfleet's "we're not a military" bit is mostly about how the organization, and the Federation, want to be perceived.

But it must do, because that means you can rag on Tilly for being overweight, having run out of other criticisms.


I think the more simple explanation is that some of us got in on one line of discussion for reasons completely unrelated to Tilly, and don't care that much about her at all, let alone her weight. I think her character is weak for completely unrelated reasons.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/12 23:41:11


Post by: Just Tony


Formosa wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Memoryalpha.

Says exactly the same.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet

Wiki simply came up first when I searched ‘Starfleet Charter’

Starfleet. Still not a military.


Starfleet is not a military to starfleet, to everyone else both in and out of universe, its a military.


Even other members of the Federation think so. Remember Dr. David Marcus? The rant he went on about scientists ALWAYS being pawns of the military. Would that fit Mad Doc's canonical requirement, do you think?

Also, if you want to go as far back as TOS, how many non-military organizations have court-martial proceedings?

Mr Morden wrote:@ Just tony - we are all saying the same thing.

The Federation's Starfleet does not call itself a military but to any independant or dispassionate observer it is. Its not a bad thing - just a truth.


I think we're starting to get a little mixed up about who is arguing what point here.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 08:27:06


Post by: Mr Morden


 Just Tony wrote:
Formosa wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Memoryalpha.

Says exactly the same.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Starfleet

Wiki simply came up first when I searched ‘Starfleet Charter’

Starfleet. Still not a military.


Starfleet is not a military to starfleet, to everyone else both in and out of universe, its a military.


Even other members of the Federation think so. Remember Dr. David Marcus? The rant he went on about scientists ALWAYS being pawns of the military. Would that fit Mad Doc's canonical requirement, do you think?

Also, if you want to go as far back as TOS, how many non-military organizations have court-martial proceedings?

Mr Morden wrote:@ Just tony - we are all saying the same thing.

The Federation's Starfleet does not call itself a military but to any independant or dispassionate observer it is. Its not a bad thing - just a truth.


I think we're starting to get a little mixed up about who is arguing what point here.


Sorry I was not clear - I meant that we were all saying the same thing - including you - just one person who disagreed.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 11:15:53


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


 Formosa wrote:
now STD may want to change this but since its not prime universe its not canon anyway,


You cannot discount STD when we're explicitly discussing a character in STD. That just does not work.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 12:15:54


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


What makes you think Disco isn't in the Prime Universe? Have I missed something?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 12:45:41


Post by: Formosa


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
What makes you think Disco isn't in the Prime Universe? Have I missed something?


The fact its not allowed to be by CBS and that all mechandising rights go to Bad Robot (and paramount) thats why all the species, ships, uniforms etc. have to be at least 25% different from the canon series, STD is not prime timeline so is not canon, same as the JJ verse, its an alternate universe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
now STD may want to change this but since its not prime universe its not canon anyway,


You cannot discount STD when we're explicitly discussing a character in STD. That just does not work.



Yes I can and dont quote me out of context walrus.

"then the constitution class, its a heavy cruiser designed to take on the klingons, now STD may want to change this but since its not prime universe its not canon anyway,"

STD only affect STD lore, not prime universe lore, so when discussing STD lore i take it into account, when discussing the prime universe ships as I was I can discount STD lore, since its not canon.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 13:03:02


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


But all sources point to it being the Prime Universe, and thusly canon?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 14:38:12


Post by: dyndraig


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But all sources point to it being the Prime Universe, and thusly canon?


As I understand it, due to corporate shenanigans STD is made on a different license then previous ST series, a license that stipulates that all content made on this license has to differ from previous ST with about 25%. So STD is Prime universe but it's a separate Prime universe from the previous ST series.

The Youtube channel Midnight's Edge have done some videos on the subject.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 14:38:21


Post by: LordofHats


 Formosa wrote:


The fact its not allowed to be by CBS and that all mechandising rights go to Bad Robot (and paramount) thats why all the species, ships, uniforms etc. have to be at least 25% different from the canon series, STD is not prime timeline so is not canon, same as the JJ verse, its an alternate universe.


???

These are rules CBS has enforced, but their rules for products not produced by CBS (STO has to do this for example). Paramount has always had movie rights to the franchise going back to the Motion Picture, so I'm not sure how their involvement has anything to do with it, and merchandising rights for the franchise have always been rather all over the place. All production materials, and even advertisements when the series was in early production, went out of their way to state "Prime timeline prime timeline, not Kelvin" since the reboot movie universe has a shaky at best relationship with the fanbase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dyndraig wrote:
The Youtube channel Midnight's Edge have done some videos on the subject.


I think I've seen the video your talking about, and it's mostly just 50 minutes of fan rage from someone with too much time on their hands to over analyze things (and commits a frequent silliness of the "old guard" fandom of taking non-canon materials as word of god and then using those materials to invent contradictions, ignoring that Star Trek has frequently been contradictory with it's history).


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 15:43:36


Post by: Formosa


These are rules CBS has enforced, but their rules for products not produced by CBS (STO has to do this for example). Paramount has always had movie rights to the franchise going back to the Motion Picture, so I'm not sure how their involvement has anything to do with it, and merchandising rights for the franchise have always been rather all over the place. All production materials, and even advertisements when the series was in early production, went out of their way to state "Prime timeline prime timeline, not Kelvin" since the reboot movie universe has a shaky at best relationship with the fanbase.


They are lying pure and simple, had they been honest and said that STD wasnt prime universe, then a lot of people would not have bothered watching it, so they lied, now that its clear it is not prime timeline some people are pissed, others, like me, just go "meh" its not canon and is an alternate universe, so will take it for what it is, a sci fi story with a trek skin, its their own CBS universe and it lets them do anything they want and make anything they want, none of which will affect the prime universe.

Some of the biggest changes are

An android before Data serving in starfleet
The Klingons.......
The Technology
The Uniforms
The 4 year war is now at most a year long
the ships

there are lots more but point is that these are major canon breaking problems, problems that will get a lot worse as time goes on, wait till they show spock, gaks gonna hit the fan when they screw that up.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 15:56:58


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Are they lying, or are you wrong?

Ponder ponder ponder.

Also, that's not an android.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 16:03:36


Post by: Formosa


Yep they are, in all fairness it wasn't clear at first but then as the series went on it became very clear they lied, and continue to do so, but hey, it's CBS trek so they can do what they like.

I must ask you however, how do you explain the massive, and they are massive, inconsistencies between CBS trek and prime trek?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 16:04:48


Post by: LordofHats


 Formosa wrote:
They are lying pure and simple, had they been honest and said that STD wasnt prime universe, then a lot of people would not have bothered watching it, so they lied, now that its clear it is not prime timeline some people are pissed, others, like me, just go "meh" its not canon and is an alternate universe, so will take it for what it is, a sci fi story with a trek skin, its their own CBS universe and it lets them do anything they want and make anything they want, none of which will affect the prime universe.


This entire paragraph makes no sense. Canon contradictions don't create alternate universes. Sometimes developers are just lazy because they don't care. Why would CBS need their own universe to do what they want? They're the original rights holders going back to TOS. Star Trek is literally whatever they say it is.

An android before Data serving in starfleet


TOS once claimed 2245 was the first year a medical officer served on a Starfleet ship. Then Enterprise went and had Doctor Phlox, probably because that was a silly claim.

I assume you're talking about Airiam? She's never been called an androids. The oldest development notes call her a "synthetic-human hybrid" which sounds like a bizarre way of saying cyborg to me. Now she's apparently an alien. I'm kind of baffled by her, mostly because someone clearly really likes her since they keep sticking her in places, but I don't know why she's not given any real characterization if she's so interesting.

The Klingons.......


The Klingon's have been retconned before. Honestly, I desperately wish people had just listened to Roddenberry and "pretended they always looked like that" when they were redesigned for Star Trek III. Discovery's retcon and redesign are horrible, but honestly the constant obsession with changes in the aesthetic of the series are annoying and the lowest point of fan pickiness. It's not 1967 anymore. Why should we limit things made in the present as if we were still operating fifty years ago?

Not that I think this retconned is good, it's pretty god awful, but god awful retcons aren't automatically canon conflicts, and canon conflicts don't suddenly spawn new timelines. I blame Fuller.

The Technology


It's not 1967 anymore.

The Uniforms


It's not 1967 anymore.

The 4 year war is now at most a year long


You're confusing the FASA RPG with canon again. In canon Axanar was fought against an unstated enemy for an unstated length of time, with no clarification on whether it was part of a larger conflict. Canon doesn't even identify when the battle happened, only that Garth was involved and it was kind of a big deal.

the ships


It's not 1967 anymore.

That said, I don't like Discovery's design. I feel like the Phase II enterprise design got ditched in the 80s for really good reasons. I can't fathom what process lead to anyone wanting to revive that eyesore. I blame Fuller.

there are lots more but point is that these are major canon breaking problems


You have yet to sight a single canon conflict that isn't purely aesthetic (which is the bottom of the barrel and a real stretch), or not remotely a canon conflict.

This is why I hate fandom.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 16:49:43


Post by: Formosa


This entire paragraph makes no sense. Canon contradictions don't create alternate universes. Sometimes developers are just lazy because they don't care. Why would CBS need their own universe to do what they want? They're the original rights holders going back to TOS. Star Trek is literally whatever they say it is.


Its an alternate universe because its internally inconsistent with esablished events and externally inconsistent.


TOS once claimed 2245 was the first year a medical officer served on a Starfleet ship. Then Enterprise went and had Doctor Phlox, probably because that was a silly claim.


Phlox was not a medical officer because he was not starfleet.

I assume you're talking about Airiam? She's never been called an androids. The oldest development notes call her a "synthetic-human hybrid" which sounds like a bizarre way of saying cyborg to me. Now she's apparently an alien. I'm kind of baffled by her, mostly because someone clearly really likes her since they keep sticking her in places, but I don't know why she's not given any real characterization if she's so interesting.


She appears to be an android, but i concede i may be wrong.


The Klingon's have been retconned before. Honestly, I desperately wish people had just listened to Roddenberry and "pretended they always looked like that" when they were redesigned for Star Trek III. Discovery's retcon and redesign are horrible, but honestly the constant obsession with changes in the aesthetic of the series are annoying and the lowest point of fan pickiness. It's not 1967 anymore. Why should we limit things made in the present as if we were still operating fifty years ago?


An inconsistency that was fixed by the prime timeline, these klingons are in no way like any other klingons we have seen, they are also inconsistent with the human looking klingons in the prime timeline and TOS, they fixed the issue in prime, they completely changed the race in STD.

Not that I think this retconned is good, it's pretty god awful, but god awful retcons aren't automatically canon conflicts, and canon conflicts don't suddenly spawn new timelines. I blame Fuller.


I agree its partly fullers fault, but this is not a retcon, its a total rewrite, we already know the events of the 4 year war, kirk fought in it, that and his sons murder are why he hates and distrusts klingons, the STD klingons in tech, look and culture are radically different from established trek canon.


It's not 1967 anymore.


Enterprise managed it... mostly

It's not 1967 anymore.


And yet even the JJ verse still managed to do it almost right, pike is wearing the wrong uniform when he boards the discovery, why is it different? why is he not wearing the established uniform of the period, because its not prime trek.

You're confusing the FASA RPG with canon again. In canon Axanar was fought against an unstated enemy for an unstated length of time, with no clarification on whether it was part of a larger conflict. Canon doesn't even identify when the battle happened, only that Garth was involved and it was kind of a big deal.


you were wrong about that last time and you are wrong about this again

I
t's not 1967 anymore.


Technology is better than established norms for the time, enterprise again tried to make sure that you could see a link between TOS that would come later in the time line, why, because its prime timeline.

You have yet to sight a single canon conflict that isn't purely aesthetic (which is the bottom of the barrel and a real stretch), or not remotely a canon conflict.


Characters are wrong, events are wrong, history is wrong, aesthetics are wrong, tech is wrong, etc. etc. but sure, scraping the barrel, try actually watching star trek rather than reading wikipedia and maybe you would know what your talking about eh



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 17:25:37


Post by: LordofHats


 Formosa wrote:

Its an alternate universe because its internally inconsistent with esablished events and externally inconsistent.


I don't see it.

Phlox was not a medical officer because he was not starfleet.


That's an even flimsier distinction than attacking the aesthetics.

An inconsistency that was fixed by the prime timeline,


I wouldn't say it was fixed. I'd say it was made stupid. There was no reason to explain why makeup design had improved. At least that change generally made the Klingon's more cool. I'd consider their TNG era presentation as the high point. Disco is definitely a low point, and the way the houses are presented as working doesn't make much sense. There's nothing inherently contradictory about it though. We don't know much about Klingon political history. Star Trek has typically been about the Federation.

this is not a retcon, its a total rewrite


A distinction without a difference.

we already know the events of the 4 year war


The 4 Year War isn't canon.

kirk fought in it, that and his sons murder are why he hates and distrusts klingons,


Kirk only had two children. Neither of them died during a war, though debatably one of them did die during a slaughter (or horrible writing cause man Paradise Syndrome was a cringe worthy episode of TV).

the STD klingons in tech, look and culture are radically different from established trek canon.


Oh I agree. I loath the redesigned starships we've seen in Discovery. They all look like something produced by a teenage edge lord, not the industrial grunge style that developed in previous works and worked really well. How on Earth is the D7 improved by sticking spiky bits on it? Have the Chaos Gods invaded while no one was watching?

Enterprise managed it... mostly


I did like the aesthetic of Enterprise. A shame the writing wasn't up to par.

why is he not wearing the established uniform of the period, because its not prime trek.


Because it's not 1967 anymore, and because the original uniform design of the period is, frankly, cheap and cheesy. I do not miss it.

you were wrong about that last time and you are wrong about this again


You're more than welcome to go watch Whom Gods Destroy. It's the only episode where Axanar is ever mentioned. Prior to Discovery, the only canon war between the Federation and the Klingons is the one that takes place in TOS and barely even qualifies as a war.

The 4 Year War is from the 2000s RPG game developed by FASA, and it was built around the unexplained events of Axanar, but it's not canon. I know for a fact that stuff about Kirk isn't in it either. I've got the book right over on the shelf.

Technology is better than established norms for the time, enterprise again tried to make sure that you could see a link between TOS that would come later in the time line, why, because its prime timeline.


If that's how you justify your head canon go for it. Not sure why it needs to be justified but w/e.

try actually watching star trek rather than reading wikipedia and maybe you would know what your talking about eh


I'm starting to wonder how much Star Trek you've watched. Kirk only had two kids. One died in the womb in 45 minutes of awful television. The other was killed by Klingon's in Star Trek III. Neither of them died during a war (unless we're counting the Federatio-Klingon Cold War but that's not what I sense you're talking about).


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 18:40:50


Post by: BaconCatBug


I mean, she'd technically be a gynoid, so saying she wasn't an android is technically correct.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/13 22:51:48


Post by: LordofHats


 BaconCatBug wrote:
I mean, she'd technically be a gynoid, so saying she wasn't an android is technically correct.


Until they bother to have her be more than neat looking window dressing we’ll probably never know. I’ve seen contradicting answers as to whether she’s human or alien, and as to whether she’s organic or synthetic and how much.

Have they bother having her as more than a backdrop character in S2 thus far? It was hard to miss her in S1 cause she was always there but I don’t remember her ever having much character time. Reminds of the robot guy from the reboots. They said he was a cyborg and that sounded cool but he had like one line despite being on the bridge crew in all three films.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 03:48:44


Post by: Formosa


I don't see it.


you choose not to see it

That's an even flimsier distinction than attacking the aesthetics.


Tough luck, he isnt part of starfleet so the reference stands.

I wouldn't say it was fixed. I'd say it was made stupid. There was no reason to explain why makeup design had improved. At least that change generally made the Klingon's more cool. I'd consider their TNG era presentation as the high point. Disco is definitely a low point, and the way the houses are presented as working doesn't make much sense. There's nothing inherently contradictory about it though. We don't know much about Klingon political history. Star Trek has typically been about the Federation.


It was still addressed and fixed, if this was prime timeline then klingons should look humanish.

A distinction without a difference.


A very important distinction, a small retcon would be ok, this was not a small change, STD klingons are klingon in name only.

The 4 Year War isn't canon.


Keep reading that wikipedia

Kirk only had two children. Neither of them died during a war, though debatably one of them did die during a slaughter (or horrible writing cause man Paradise Syndrome was a cringe worthy episode of TV).


Star trek III, his son is murdered by a klingon....

Oh I agree. I loath the redesigned starships we've seen in Discovery. They all look like something produced by a teenage edge lord, not the industrial grunge style that developed in previous works and worked really well. How on Earth is the D7 improved by sticking spiky bits on it? Have the Chaos Gods invaded while no one was watching?


Total crap, total total crap.... we agree on this at least

I did like the aesthetic of Enterprise. A shame the writing wasn't up to par.


It got a lot better in the end, it needed another season I think

Because it's not 1967 anymore, and because the original uniform design of the period is, frankly, cheap and cheesy. I do not miss it.


That reasoning does not hold up, trouble with tribbles was not made in 1967 (DS9 one) and they made the uniforms.

If that's how you justify your head canon go for it. Not sure why it needs to be justified but w/e.


Sure my head canon, i have the entirety of trek backing me, you have... nothing, just your opinion, thats it, show me or explain to me how they have changed so much how everything is so different and make it consistent with previous trek, or better still, show me in any trek where spock had a sister, and show me in STD where spocks brother is, shouldnt be too hard since its my head canon

I'm starting to wonder how much Star Trek you've watched. Kirk only had two kids. One died in the womb in 45 minutes of awful television. The other was killed by Klingon's in Star Trek III. Neither of them died during a war (unless we're counting the Federatio-Klingon Cold War but that's not what I sense you're talking about).


Says the man who has been wrong on multiple comments so far, and I said Kirk fought in the war "COMMA" that AND his sons murder by a klingon, never said the boy died in war.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 04:22:50


Post by: LordofHats


 Formosa wrote:
Tough luck, he isnt part of starfleet so the reference stands.


That's just silly.

Keep reading that wikipedia


Cite the episode that ever uses the words 4, Year, and War as a noun.

I will wait. You can keep saying I'm just reading the wiki but the only thing I've looked up since we started was that android/gynoid/cyborgs/whatever she is' name, cause I knew who you were talking about but sue me she's literally a piece of window dressing as far as the plot is concerned. I didn't know her name. At the end of the day I know you're not going to find anything if only because I've had this debate a dozen times already with the nuts who got super butt hurt over Axanar fan film.

Easy enough to prove me wrong. You did it earlier on the cruiser bit.

It got a lot better in the end, it needed another season I think


IDK. Season 4 had some of Enterpris's best episodes, but some pretty bad ones too. Season 3 has grown on me over time, but it's still pretty blarg. Definitely improvement as the series went on, and once it dropped the whole time war angle, but I still feel it was pretty weak. That said the ideas the writers talked about wanted to do in season 5 are pretty sweet.

That reasoning does not hold up, trouble with tribbles was not made in 1967 (DS9 one) and they made the uniforms.


I give it a pass because the episode was fun. Easily the best of the contributions to the 30th anniversary of the franchise. Even if it started the stupid trend of "we have to explain why the Klingon's look different."

The uniforms were still cheesy.

i have the entirety of trek backing me


Name the episode/movie.

show me in any trek where spock had a sister, and show me in STD where spocks brother is


Honestly, I think that's just an example of bad writing and lazy development. Twice over actually. Don't remember Spock mentioned as ever having a brother prior to STV (or after for that matter, I swear everyone just wanted to pretend that movie never happened), and they certainly never mentioned him having a sister. Let alone a human sister. Odd things for Spock to never mention to anyone until some new product comes along, but then STV was pretty bad and Discovery is so shaky for me on every level.

Berhman is terrible, both as a character and a piece of lore. This I think we agree on XD

and I said Kirk fought in the war "COMMA" that AND his sons murder by a klingon, never said the boy died in war.


Ah I see. Misunderstood then.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 10:35:06


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 LordofHats wrote:
How on Earth is the D7 improved by sticking spiky bits on it? Have the Chaos Gods invaded while no one was watching?


Apparently it's not, given that the first Klingon scene in season 2 is of the D7 (sans spike, from what I can see) being introduced as an improvement to the existing Klingon warships.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 12:02:00


Post by: dyndraig


What is and isn't canon is a nebulous concept, but I think you could make a good argument that STD is separate universe. Considering that the license that enables it specifically states that it has to differ from previous incarnations, ergo it's legally obligated to not keep things in canon.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 12:09:39


Post by: LordofHats


dyndraig wrote:
What is and isn't canon is a nebulous concept,


It’s really not. It’s literally TV episodes and movies and it’s been that way since fans started asking in the 80s. The Animated series is kind of nebulous cause they say it’s not canon but then they treated it like it was at times so *shrugs*

but I think you could make a good argument that STD is separate universe. Considering that the license that enables it specifically states that it has to differ from previous incarnations, ergo it's legally obligated to not keep things in canon.


What license? STD isn’t made on a license it’s made directly by the original rights holder. They don’t need a license and they don’t have one as far as I can tell. The only source for this I can find are things written by angry fans who seem to have pulled it from thin air.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 12:20:44


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


If memory serves, the differences required are purely cosmetic. So CBS can't use Paramounts design of the Enterprise, and vice versa.

Otherwise, we'd see Captain Krik, Irishy, Skeleton MacCoy, Professor Spot, Chenkov, Uvavu and Hulu as the crew in the movies. Which of course we don't.

It's nothing to do with the plot. Otherwise, all the Star Trek films. All of them. Having been made by different rights holders to the TV series, would be non-canon, because they're now owned by someone other than CBS.

Seriously. It's fine if you don't particularly enjoy Discovery. It's equally fine if you utterly loathe it. But please, stop with the Neckbeard Acrobatics to claim it's non-canon, just because you don't like it. It just makes us all look silly.

Here's a handy guide to the corporate history of Trek for ease of reference.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 12:37:25


Post by: ingtaer


Is this tangent done yet? Though fascinating (but not as fascinating as the is Starfleet a military organisation tangent) I do wonder if we are going too off track in the specific Discovery thread. Incidentaly I did enjoy that the crew in the marathon scene were wearing tops that said Disco.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 12:40:45


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


If you stand them side by side in a race with Sulu, would it read Enter Disco?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 13:04:48


Post by: dyndraig


 LordofHats wrote:


It’s really not. It’s literally TV episodes and movies and it’s been that way since fans started asking in the 80s. The Animated series is kind of nebulous cause they say it’s not canon but then they treated it like it was at times so *shrugs*


I 'm talking about canon in the wider sense and it's rarely cut and dry what's canon and what's not.

 LordofHats wrote:


What license? STD isn’t made on a license it’s made directly by the original rights holder. They don’t need a license and they don’t have one as far as I can tell. The only source for this I can find are things written by angry fans who seem to have pulled it from thin air.


I'm no expert on the corporate history of this, but my understanding of it is that there is a split in the rights of ST due to the Viacom split, and it seems that has effects on the ST content that is being produced. But as this is considered tangent we dont have to go in deeper about it.

Spoiler:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If memory serves, the differences required are purely cosmetic. So CBS can't use Paramounts design of the Enterprise, and vice versa.

Otherwise, we'd see Captain Krik, Irishy, Skeleton MacCoy, Professor Spot, Chenkov, Uvavu and Hulu as the crew in the movies. Which of course we don't.

It's nothing to do with the plot. Otherwise, all the Star Trek films. All of them. Having been made by different rights holders to the TV series, would be non-canon, because they're now owned by someone other than CBS.

Seriously. It's fine if you don't particularly enjoy Discovery. It's equally fine if you utterly loathe it. But please, stop with the Neckbeard Acrobatics to claim it's non-canon, just because you don't like it. It just makes us all look silly.

Here's a handy guide to the corporate history of Trek for ease of reference.


No, what's making you look silly is attacking people for "Neckbeard Acrobatics" when someone discusses the canon of a show you like.

But nice projection, I haven't actually seen STD so I dont have an opinion about it either way. My interest was if the rights issue had effects on modern ST, but as that is a tangent we dont have to go further into that.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 13:32:18


Post by: ingtaer


dyndraig wrote:
Spoiler:
 LordofHats wrote:


It’s really not. It’s literally TV episodes and movies and it’s been that way since fans started asking in the 80s. The Animated series is kind of nebulous cause they say it’s not canon but then they treated it like it was at times so *shrugs*


I 'm talking about canon in the wider sense and it's rarely cut and dry what's canon and what's not.

 LordofHats wrote:


What license? STD isn’t made on a license it’s made directly by the original rights holder. They don’t need a license and they don’t have one as far as I can tell. The only source for this I can find are things written by angry fans who seem to have pulled it from thin air.


I'm no expert on the corporate history of this, but my understanding of it is that there is a split in the rights of ST due to the Viacom split, and it seems that has effects on the ST content that is being produced. But as this is considered tangent we dont have to go in deeper about it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If memory serves, the differences required are purely cosmetic. So CBS can't use Paramounts design of the Enterprise, and vice versa.

Otherwise, we'd see Captain Krik, Irishy, Skeleton MacCoy, Professor Spot, Chenkov, Uvavu and Hulu as the crew in the movies. Which of course we don't.

It's nothing to do with the plot. Otherwise, all the Star Trek films. All of them. Having been made by different rights holders to the TV series, would be non-canon, because they're now owned by someone other than CBS.

Seriously. It's fine if you don't particularly enjoy Discovery. It's equally fine if you utterly loathe it. But please, stop with the Neckbeard Acrobatics to claim it's non-canon, just because you don't like it. It just makes us all look silly.

Here's a handy guide to the corporate history of Trek for ease of reference.


No, what's making you look silly is attacking people for "Neckbeard Acrobatics" when someone discusses the canon of a show you like.

But nice projection, I haven't actually seen STD so I dont have an opinion about it either way. My interest was if the rights issue had effects on modern ST, but as that is a tangent we dont have to go further into that.


Sorry I didn't make myself clear. What I meant was, we ARE done with this tangent. If you want to carry on discussing the canon of ST and its wider implications do so in a different thread.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/14 21:04:32


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Episode five tomorrow, and looking forward to it.

My weekend is now nicely bookended by Disco on a Friday, and Walking Dead on a Monday


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/15 18:19:24


Post by: Formosa


text removed

Reds8n



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/15 19:02:31


Post by: Paradigm


Another excellent episode this week, far better than I was expecting when I saw that Section 31 and their USS Edge-terprise were back. Still don't particularly enjoy that sub-plot or the characters within it, but the episode as a whole was smashing, once again putting character front and centre which is always good.

I really do appreciate this series being a bit more 'monster of the week' and more of a slow burn than the very serial, rapid first series. The higher episode count really is doing it some favours in that regard.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/16 13:05:43


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Still need to get round to giving the rest of the Bridge crew their moments to shine. Still couldn’t tell you all their names.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/17 11:20:41


Post by: Mr Morden


Better episode but be nice if the writters tried a little harder to make a coherent plot and narrative.

Tilly was less annoying and loved seeing Burnham put in her place by Georgio who was a joy in every scene. Really enjoy Pike as well - pity he is just there to take orders from Burnham.

its getting better but not a patch on Season 1 at the moment for me.

Still need to get round to giving the rest of the Bridge crew their moments to shine. Still couldn’t tell you all their names


Detmer seems like she should be fun - no idea what to make about the android lady and Linus is crap.

I don't think they will bother much - every episode revolves around Tilly and Burnham - look at the adoring looks everyone gives them as they strut around the bridge at the end of the episode.....


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/17 11:30:10


Post by: ingtaer


 Mr Morden wrote:
Better episode but be nice if the writters tried a little harder to make a coherent plot and narrative.

Tilly was less annoying and loved seeing Burnham put in her place by Georgio who was a joy in every scene. Really enjoy Pike as well - pity he is just there to take orders from Burnham.

its getting better but not a patch on Season 1 at the moment for me.

Still need to get round to giving the rest of the Bridge crew their moments to shine. Still couldn’t tell you all their names


Detmer seems like she should be fun - no idea what to make about the android lady and Linus is crap.

I don't think they will bother much - every episode revolves around Tilly and Burnham - look at the adoring looks everyone gives them as they strut around the bridge at the end of the episode.....


I was chatting with a bloke about disco and we both struggled to recall pretty much anything about any of the other bridge officers/senior officers. Like the chief engineer, is there one? Cant remember them appearing and I am pretty sure its not Stamets (sp?). It would be really nice to have even some focus on anyone than Tilly and Burnham, it seems more often than not that Burnham is actually in charge and the captain and first officer are a cheer squad.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/17 11:52:17


Post by: Mr Morden


 ingtaer wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Better episode but be nice if the writters tried a little harder to make a coherent plot and narrative.

Tilly was less annoying and loved seeing Burnham put in her place by Georgio who was a joy in every scene. Really enjoy Pike as well - pity he is just there to take orders from Burnham.

its getting better but not a patch on Season 1 at the moment for me.

Still need to get round to giving the rest of the Bridge crew their moments to shine. Still couldn’t tell you all their names


Detmer seems like she should be fun - no idea what to make about the android lady and Linus is crap.

I don't think they will bother much - every episode revolves around Tilly and Burnham - look at the adoring looks everyone gives them as they strut around the bridge at the end of the episode.....


I was chatting with a bloke about disco and we both struggled to recall pretty much anything about any of the other bridge officers/senior officers. Like the chief engineer, is there one? Cant remember them appearing and I am pretty sure its not Stamets (sp?). It would be really nice to have even some focus on anyone than Tilly and Burnham, it seems more often than not that Burnham is actually in charge and the captain and first officer are a cheer squad.


and apparently the Engineering Commander that Pike brought over and did nothing is now Chief of Security for some reason, not that they apparently use security - ever.

Compared to previous St - there is no Chief Engineer, there is a regular Doctor but she is just one of several, there are some science officers and Stamets is really just a visiting scientist. There is the visiting engineer woman from the wreck who is fun but apparently does nto have a offical role. I guess people just wonder on and off the ship all the time judging by the wierd appearance and disappearnce of Number One went.

Yep its Cap Burnham every epsiode - she tells everyone what to do, how to do it and often then even does it for them. Its really being to grate for me.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/18 17:35:36


Post by: KamikazeCanuck


I think that new engineer they brought over will become the chief engineer. Stamets is like the senior science officer but he’s more of a specialist for the spore drive. Burnham is the de facto chief science officer. She would be the official head science officer but she got demoted recently and is trying to come back up the ranks. It makes sense that the new chief is security is from Pike’s staff. Their last head of security turned out to be a Klingon and the one before that died a stupid death.
I actually think the premise of STD may be what a Starfleet ship is like that isn’t the best of the best but actually has had a lot of turnover. That’s been done with TOS, TNG, DS9 and Enterprise. Disco has had 3 captains already. Much of the crew is from whatever the first ship was so that’s four. That would leave a lot of crews reeling and it’s kind of interesting.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/18 17:56:38


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


I quite like that the Disco crew are more fringe loonies and misfits. But again, we need to spend time with more of the bridge crew in general.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/18 22:08:02


Post by: Just Tony


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I quite like that the Disco crew are more fringe loonies and misfits. But again, we need to spend time with more of the bridge crew in general.


So basically the crew of the Lost Light over in Transformers: More Than Meets The Eye? Yeah, didn't like that comic either...


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/18 22:28:33


Post by: Mr Morden


 Just Tony wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I quite like that the Disco crew are more fringe loonies and misfits. But again, we need to spend time with more of the bridge crew in general.


So basically the crew of the Lost Light over in Transformers: More Than Meets The Eye? Yeah, didn't like that comic either...


I imagine most of the Federation fleet is in pretty bad shape......lots of damaged, grieiving angry people.

Def agree about spending time with people other than Tilly and Burnham - I assume we will get a bit of time with Stamets now?

The freaks are more on the Section 31 ship apparently and the commander of that ship is so out of his depth trying to control the Emperor.....


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/22 04:47:15


Post by: KamikazeCanuck


Well that was one crazy episode. Not sure about the decision to completely upend an entire planet’s civilization. It almost ended up destroying an entire species and they were supposed to be under a “light” Prime Directive too! Oh well, guess it all worked out in the end...

Anyone think that belour (have no idea how it’s spelled) black slime species is the same one as the one that killed Tasha Yar?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/22 11:58:20


Post by: AduroT


I wondered about the Tasha thing as well, but I doubt it as that one seemed far superior to this.

As is I did not like the reveal of the Balour. If they were supposed to be the real prey species, I’d have rather they just made them some half sized frailer looking things instead of that big extra creepy whatever the hell that was.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/23 07:12:59


Post by: KamikazeCanuck


 AduroT wrote:
I wondered about the Tasha thing as well, but I doubt it as that one seemed far superior to this.

As is I did not like the reveal of the Balour. If they were supposed to be the real prey species, I’d have rather they just made them some half sized frailer looking things instead of that big extra creepy whatever the hell that was.


Yeah, like how is Saru’s species a natural predator for that? I don’t see how the porcupine quills help here. The slime species was cool but they probably should have used that for something else.....like the species that killed Tasha.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/24 21:37:23


Post by: Mr Morden


Well that was another mess - this series is not going well.

Again Pike was great - when he was not taking orders from Burnham, there was an interesting set up and then they just threw it away so they could get on with the next bit of the Burnham plot - even though of course her and Tilly where the only ones on the ship (apart fomr the android woman (*) capable of doing anything,

Good stuff included Tylers dig back at Pike - "Those of us who actaully fought in the war" - cold dude, cold..

So was there just the one weird black slime monster with its super crappy drones - that was all very odd - what was the rest of the doing, might have been nice to see their reaction to the upending of an entire planets civilisation or if they had communicated to him that Saru's race drove them to the edge of extinction.....

Its all a bit lazy but also rushed like the last two episodes. sad really - thre was an interesting story trying to emerge.

(*) seriously who or what is she - there is a story there (like most of the neglected bridge crew)


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/24 22:03:59


Post by: Formosa


Red angel is Burnham.... calling it now, if true this series is dead to me and i will just watch something else until real trek comes back.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/24 22:37:05


Post by: Mr Morden


 Formosa wrote:
Red angel is Burnham.... calling it now, if true this series is dead to me and i will just watch something else until real trek comes back.


Ughhh I can see that and I hate it.......


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/24 22:52:16


Post by: AduroT


 Formosa wrote:
Red angel is Burnham.... calling it now, if true this series is dead to me and i will just watch something else until real trek comes back.


What do you mean “come back”? Orville’s already on its second season.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/24 22:58:08


Post by: Mr Morden


 AduroT wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
Red angel is Burnham.... calling it now, if true this series is dead to me and i will just watch something else until real trek comes back.


What do you mean “come back”? Orville’s already on its second season.


I have not manged to watch that as I have not liked anything else Seth Mcfarlane has done....(although Candice King was in a episode so that might get me to watch it.)


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/24 23:32:31


Post by: Formosa


I'm with you mordon, I can't stand McFarlane either but I've watched the first series of star trek Orville now and it's ... Really good, I'm waiting for the second season to finish before I binge it.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/25 12:10:37


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Didn't particularly enjoy the last episode. But hey, every Trek has it's bum notes.

Red Angel? That's not Burnham. I think it's linked to the Red Matter that caused loads of trouble in the movie timeline.

As for the Orville? My detestation of the smug git that is McFarlane means I will never, ever watch it. Just cannot stand him.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/25 19:48:16


Post by: Mr Morden


Red Matter/Red Angel Burnham - no matter how awful- is not mutually exclusive.

Be more amusing if its the Empress


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/25 21:44:21


Post by: KamikazeCanuck


 Mr Morden wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
Red angel is Burnham.... calling it now, if true this series is dead to me and i will just watch something else until real trek comes back.


What do you mean “come back”? Orville’s already on its second season.


I have not manged to watch that as I have not liked anything else Seth Mcfarlane has done....(although Candice King was in a episode so that might get me to watch it.)


Don't let a dislike of MacFarlane stop you from checking it out. Odds are if you don't like STD you'll like Orville.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/25 23:48:57


Post by: chromedog


 Mr Morden wrote:
Well that was another mess - this series is not going well.

Again Pike was great - when he was not taking orders from Burnham, there was an interesting set up and then they just threw it away so they could get on with the next bit of the Burnham plot - even though of course her and Tilly where the only ones on the ship (apart fomr the android woman (*) capable of doing anything,

Good stuff included Tylers dig back at Pike - "Those of us who actaully fought in the war" - cold dude, cold..

So was there just the one weird black slime monster with its super crappy drones - that was all very odd - what was the rest of the doing, might have been nice to see their reaction to the upending of an entire planets civilisation or if they had communicated to him that Saru's race drove them to the edge of extinction.....

Its all a bit lazy but also rushed like the last two episodes. sad really - thre was an interesting story trying to emerge.

(*) seriously who or what is she - there is a story there (like most of the neglected bridge crew)


Airiam. She's a "Cybernetically augmented humanoid alien" (no specific species has been named). First played by Sara Mitich (who also played Gia, the belter prostitute on Ceres that was teaching Havelock (the "earther") how to speak "belter"). Her official role is Spore drive Ops control.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/27 17:54:24


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


And we’re getting a third season. Announced today, which is nice.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/27 18:37:48


Post by: warboss


Judging from the clearer pic posted of the red angel (don't watch the show myself though), my guess from the hips and body type would be future Tilly. Has anyone actually checked the credits to see if someone is listed as the red angel?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And we’re getting a third season. Announced today, which is nice.


That's disappointing. Maybe the new co-showrunner will make it into something that I might like.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/27 19:26:03


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


That’s nice pet.

Have you tried, like, not watching stuff you don’t enjoy, and letting each be unto their own?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/27 19:32:46


Post by: warboss


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s nice pet.

Have you tried, like, not watching stuff you don’t enjoy, and letting each be unto their own?


You mean like I'm doing this season by not watching after having watched the first and being disappointed? This is a discussion forum and I'm discussing the recent development on the show. If you don't like it, have you tried, like, starting a blog where you can just post monologues all day/every day and approve comments before posting so that you don't risk encountering opinions that don't match your own?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/27 19:35:57


Post by: Formosa


 warboss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s nice pet.

Have you tried, like, not watching stuff you don’t enjoy, and letting each be unto their own?


You mean like I'm doing this season by not watching after having watched the first and being disappointed? This is a discussion forum and I'm discussing the recent development on the show. If you don't like it, have you tried, like, starting a blog where you can just post monologues all day/every day and approve comments before posting so that you don't risk encountering opinions that don't match your own?



Hahaha Burn..ham.

Anywho, anyone seen this fan theory that says the Red angel might be spock trying to merge the timelines? so STD, Prime and Kelvin timelines? if true that would go a long way to fixing some of the inconsistencies within the series and could mean Picard series could be part of it, what do you all think?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/27 19:53:40


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 warboss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s nice pet.

Have you tried, like, not watching stuff you don’t enjoy, and letting each be unto their own?


You mean like I'm doing this season by not watching after having watched the first and being disappointed? This is a discussion forum and I'm discussing the recent development on the show. If you don't like it, have you tried, like, starting a blog where you can just post monologues all day/every day and approve comments before posting so that you don't risk encountering opinions that don't match your own?


I just don’t get the need to harp on constantly about it, or comment on it.

I could list a great number of well loved TV series that I utterly loathe. But I don’t feel any compulsion to do so. I just don’t watch them, and let each be about their own. And that includes follow ups to series I have enjoyed. And indeed, specific seasons of shows I loved, loathed, then loved again.

I mean, what’s the actual point? What does such an activity achieve? What’s the endgame? Where’s the gain?

It’s like The Last Jedi. I for one enjoyed it. And whilst I get opinions very much vary, I don’t actually care. Yet try starting a Star Wars thread on Dakka, and not have it devolve into mindless, repetive tripe by those that didn’t like The Last Jedi. You can’t. At all.

That’s not say those that didn’t enjoy it are wrong. Just that they’ve proven to be crushing bores over the matter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s nice pet.

Have you tried, like, not watching stuff you don’t enjoy, and letting each be unto their own?


You mean like I'm doing this season by not watching after having watched the first and being disappointed? This is a discussion forum and I'm discussing the recent development on the show. If you don't like it, have you tried, like, starting a blog where you can just post monologues all day/every day and approve comments before posting so that you don't risk encountering opinions that don't match your own?



Hahaha Burn..ham.

Anywho, anyone seen this fan theory that says the Red angel might be spock trying to merge the timelines? so STD, Prime and Kelvin timelines? if true that would go a long way to fixing some of the inconsistencies within the series and could mean Picard series could be part of it, what do you all think?


On the second bit, I did postulate there may be a link twixt Spock, Red Matter and The Red Angel. I’ve not put much thought into it (thinks are for work, where I’m paid well for them). Would be an interesting plot point. Which doesn’t mean it’s immune to poor execution or criticism.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/27 20:35:05


Post by: warboss


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I just don’t get the need to harp on constantly about it, or comment on it.

I could list a great number of well loved TV series that I utterly loathe. But I don’t feel any compulsion to do so. I just don’t watch them, and let each be about their own. And that includes follow ups to series I have enjoyed. And indeed, specific seasons of shows I loved, loathed, then loved again.

I mean, what’s the actual point? What does such an activity achieve? What’s the endgame? Where’s the gain?


Harp on it constantly? It was literally my first post in this thread in 30 days that garnered your derisive response, love. Again, if responding after one month is "harping constantly" in your opinion, you *REALLY* need to look into starting a blog so as not to inconvienence yourself with actual discussion since you're clearly not looking for anything other than vapid agreement. As for that great number of well loved TV shows, how many are still on air? How many are actively being discussed on dakka recently? How many had significant news like you posted about today that I responded to? I'm guessing that number is a big fat zero so whatever comparison you're thinking of with I love Lucy or Kindred: The Embraced is moot.

As for the actual point, it's the same point as that of dakka as in to drive discussion although in a more polite manner than you've steered the discussion (and admittedly that I'm responding in kind with). If you can't handle a dissenting opinion (and I freely admit it's simply an opinion/preference that you're free to disagree with), you should take a step back and look at the toxic fandom that you're guilty of instead of chiding others. All I literally said was that it was disappointing... that's it. Congrats, though, because now I think I'll be a more regular contributor to the thread so I hope you have some calming earl grey tea (preferably hot) to sooth your nerves in the coming days/weeks.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/27 20:36:42


Post by: Formosa


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s nice pet.

Have you tried, like, not watching stuff you don’t enjoy, and letting each be unto their own?


You mean like I'm doing this season by not watching after having watched the first and being disappointed? This is a discussion forum and I'm discussing the recent development on the show. If you don't like it, have you tried, like, starting a blog where you can just post monologues all day/every day and approve comments before posting so that you don't risk encountering opinions that don't match your own?


I just don’t get the need to harp on constantly about it, or comment on it.

I could list a great number of well loved TV series that I utterly loathe. But I don’t feel any compulsion to do so. I just don’t watch them, and let each be about their own. And that includes follow ups to series I have enjoyed. And indeed, specific seasons of shows I loved, loathed, then loved again.

I mean, what’s the actual point? What does such an activity achieve? What’s the endgame? Where’s the gain?

It’s like The Last Jedi. I for one enjoyed it. And whilst I get opinions very much vary, I don’t actually care. Yet try starting a Star Wars thread on Dakka, and not have it devolve into mindless, repetive tripe by those that didn’t like The Last Jedi. You can’t. At all.

That’s not say those that didn’t enjoy it are wrong. Just that they’ve proven to be crushing bores over the matter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s nice pet.

Have you tried, like, not watching stuff you don’t enjoy, and letting each be unto their own?


You mean like I'm doing this season by not watching after having watched the first and being disappointed? This is a discussion forum and I'm discussing the recent development on the show. If you don't like it, have you tried, like, starting a blog where you can just post monologues all day/every day and approve comments before posting so that you don't risk encountering opinions that don't match your own?



Hahaha Burn..ham.

Anywho, anyone seen this fan theory that says the Red angel might be spock trying to merge the timelines? so STD, Prime and Kelvin timelines? if true that would go a long way to fixing some of the inconsistencies within the series and could mean Picard series could be part of it, what do you all think?


On the second bit, I did postulate there may be a link twixt Spock, Red Matter and The Red Angel. I’ve not put much thought into it (thinks are for work, where I’m paid well for them). Would be an interesting plot point. Which doesn’t mean it’s immune to poor execution or criticism.


I would like it to go down that route, it would be more interesting that the posibility of Burnham being the Red Angel and in the off chance she is, well that means she will probably turn up in Picard series, I shudder at the prospect of that.

Spock is the most likely candidate for the red angel to me though


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/27 21:10:14


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


But warboss.

We all know you don’t enjoy Disco. And totally fair enough.

Yet you took the time out of your day, which I assume is at least as busy as my own, to express disappointment that a show you don’t like, and don’t watch, is getting a further season for you to, erm, well, seemingly, not watch.

I just don’t get it.

I mean, I utterly loathe Friends. I think it’s completely awful in every aspect. Yet I don’t seek threads and comments explicitly about an otherwise popular show to express just how much I effing loathe it.

Take ‘The Orville’. It may be very good, and if peeps enjoy it, that’s cool. But me? I cannot stand it’s point of origin. It’s creator. Yes, I could go into great and indeed deeply verbose reasons as to why I’m not interested on that count. But I don’t. I see the inherent futility of doing so.

All the next person has (not needs. Nobody needs to know my opinion. Well, outside of my profession, on account I’m genuinely paid for my opinion) get is that I don’t want to watch it.

The whys and wherefores just don’t matter at all. I could kick up a self righteous crusade of indignation here on Dakka, and achieve nowt. So I don’t bother. Because I get that nobody actually gives much of a toss what I think. And if they do?

Outside of the gaming aspect, where they might seek to learn my successes and failures?

In the words of Vic and Bob?

It doesn’t matter. Can’t say it matters. It doesn’t really matter. Don’t matter.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 02:55:58


Post by: warboss


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But warboss.

We all know you don’t enjoy Disco. And totally fair enough.

Yet you took the time out of your day, which I assume is at least as busy as my own, to express disappointment that a show you don’t like, and don’t watch, is getting a further season for you to, erm, well, seemingly, not watch.

I just don’t get it.

I mean, I utterly loathe Friends. I think it’s completely awful in every aspect. Yet I don’t seek threads and comments explicitly about an otherwise popular show to express just how much I effing loathe it.

Take ‘The Orville’. It may be very good, and if peeps enjoy it, that’s cool. But me? I cannot stand it’s point of origin. It’s creator. Yes, I could go into great and indeed deeply verbose reasons as to why I’m not interested on that count. But I don’t. I see the inherent futility of doing so.


You remember my thoughts from a month ago when I lasted my opinion on dakka regarding Discovery? I'm both flattered and have to commend you on your eidetic memory that would make Sheldon jealous (that's a Big Bang Theory reference btw in case you're not into that sitcom). Also, who is this we that you're speaking for? Was there a vote that I missed in thread? Regardless, I took time out of my day to simply say that I was disappointed and hoped for better. What triggered you was literally less than one line in my first post on the subject in 30 days and you're criticizing me at length for that snippet yet simultaneously wondering why I post about a franchise that I have long been interested in. I watch semi-regularly the Orville and watched Friends in the 90's but those aren't great comparisons in my case. I haven't followed either one for over a dozen movies, two dozen TV seasons, dozens of books, multiple games in each category of miniatures/RPG/videogame, many comics, and several large scale models over the course of the last three decades nor do I make custom rules for either on my blog like I do with Trek. I think that type of dedication to the franchise permits me the luxury of commenting on important new information regarding a series that I think has made a remarkable turn for the worse in recent years regardless if the tone is consistently to your disliking. I'll also continue to comment on it (largely negatively in all likelihood) so you may just want to block me instead of getting triggered by relatively innocuous comments from someone who occasionally expresses a dissenting opinion.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 03:00:47


Post by: ingtaer


Can we keep this to discussing Discovery please.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 03:01:29


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Heh. Another place I frequent has a big warning in the thread "NO ORVILLE!".

Anyway, yay Season 3!


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 03:02:00


Post by: LordofHats


 ingtaer wrote:
Can we keep this to discussing the Orville please.


I see what you did there XD


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 03:05:07


Post by: ingtaer


 LordofHats wrote:
 ingtaer wrote:
Can we keep this to discussing the Orville please.


I see what you did there XD


Got distracted


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 03:14:05


Post by: Just Tony


 Formosa wrote:
 warboss wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s nice pet.

Have you tried, like, not watching stuff you don’t enjoy, and letting each be unto their own?


You mean like I'm doing this season by not watching after having watched the first and being disappointed? This is a discussion forum and I'm discussing the recent development on the show. If you don't like it, have you tried, like, starting a blog where you can just post monologues all day/every day and approve comments before posting so that you don't risk encountering opinions that don't match your own?



Hahaha Burn..ham.

Anywho, anyone seen this fan theory that says the Red angel might be spock trying to merge the timelines? so STD, Prime and Kelvin timelines? if true that would go a long way to fixing some of the inconsistencies within the series and could mean Picard series could be part of it, what do you all think?


Given the absolute dumpster fire every other amalgamated continuity has wound up being, I'm dreading what that could do to the Trek U at large. However, since there's this teeny issue with the separate production houses I don't see it happening.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 03:33:11


Post by: Formosa


I suppose it's just that I'm hoping that after discoveries eventual cancellation we will get a series set after voyager and a continuation of the story that most people I have spoken to and seen wanted, honestly if disco keeps going the way it is I can't see it lasting more than 4 seasons, if the viewer numbers reported are true it's not doing too well, I do wonder about that though, I know it's on Netflix and CBS all access, but I get the feeling it has higher viewer numbers but most of those are piracy, nothing solid to base that on, just a feeling.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 10:12:41


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


You realize that people are going to get a bit annoyed when what you post is essentially "I hope this thing you enjoy gets cancelled so I can have more stuff I like instead"?

I can agree that trying to merge the continuities would be horrible though.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 13:01:35


Post by: Mr Morden


I am still watching Star Trek: Burnham and Tilly but no longer excited......

It still has some good bits but they are being increasingly smothered by the total obsession with two characters who are just poorly written and the best at everything - yawn.

Hopeful for the Empress spin off and would love to see a proper Cap Pike series rather than (Ok I'll just keep the seat warm for Burnham).


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 13:42:35


Post by: Formosa


 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You realize that people are going to get a bit annoyed when what you post is essentially "I hope this thing you enjoy gets cancelled so I can have more stuff I like instead"?

I can agree that trying to merge the continuities would be horrible though.


fair one that was not my intent.

I should be a bit clearer, I think this series will only last 4 seasons due to cost and low (allegedly) viewer numbers, CBS simply wont pay for a failing series (allegedly), now would I prefer this series got better, of course I bloody would, STNG was crap in the first series, so was DS9, voyager was crap for the first 2 series and Enterprise was just crap until the last series, I would rather STD "got good", that they stopped bringing in writers WHO HAVE NEVER WORKED WITH A SCI FI setting, boggles my mind that one, I would prefer that they got some proper writers in to do dialogue, I would prefer they just fixed the series and brought it up to scratch.

because if it does not fix its glaring problems, it WILL be cancelled and we will have to wait another 10 god damn years for a new star trek series, or god forbid...... JJ movies.


Now the good stuff

Saru, Every single damned time that person is on screen I love him, I want to know more about him and his species, I want to know what the deal with the spike launcher earmuffs is, they better make him captain.

Robot lady/cyborg, WTF is going on with her, what is she, who is she, give me more dammit!

Crazy robut eye lady, again, whats the deal here, how did she get the robut eye, is she human? she looks human with crazy cyborg eye but we dont know.

Pike, urgh i dont want to like him but his charm won me over, he has grown on me.

Dr gay jesus, I was a bid saddened when he died last season, it was so unexpected, I like nice calm collected dr type characters, now he is back from the interdimetional mushroo.... jesus this series is stupid, great i am happy that we got him back, but bloody hell, dead people in mushroom space...


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 20:40:20


Post by: pgmason


If by "crazy robot eye lady" you mean Detmer the helmswoman, she was one of the crew of Georgiou's ship in the pilot episode and was badly wounded in the initial battle with the klingons. She blamed Burnham at first and was very hostile when she first came on the discovery, but has mellowed as she came around to realise it wasn't really her fault.

Totally with you on Saru. He's great.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 21:52:17


Post by: Mr Morden


Detmer is great but is underused - I also like the fact she is one of the very few Mirror Universe characters still alive......

Agreed on all the rest - it has the pontential to be much much better


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 22:00:25


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Bridge Crew do need to see more use.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 22:05:16


Post by: superbit415


So watched episode 4 or 5 yesterday and I was like WTF.

Spoiler:
WTF does everyone know what section 31 is and people in section 31 casually mentioning they are part of it. That just completely ruins a plot line from DS9.


Also, my two cents in the discussion of why criticize the show if you don't like it (I know I really shouldn't but). Well I see it as because the person probably loves star trek and wants it to be good. Its actually the reason I still watch this show hoping they can turn it around and there are points where it looks like it might and than they do something stupid or try to shoe horn something in the plot. And as for all the people who like the show, just because you like something doesn't necessarily make it good. Hell I like Star Wars Episode 1 & 3 but that doesn't magically make them good movies. The main point of a discussion is to give your views of it and try to see other's point of view too and not just blindly praise or criticize something.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/02/28 22:11:04


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Well, the Super Powers of the 60’s and that had not-so-secret-secret-Police.

Now, we apparently don’t. Not that anyone is admitting to.

I can see something broadly similar with Section 31. Easy enough to erase them from history and sink into the Shadows. Particularly when all your records are computerised.

I expect that may be covered at some point during Disco.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/01 17:25:16


Post by: Formosa


new episode is up, lets see how this goes shall we


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm not too bad this week, we actually got a star trek episode.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/02 11:32:16


Post by: reds8n


... I quite like the actor/character but cannot help but feel that if you are pretending to be dead -- beheaded by the Klingon Empress/similar in fact -- then walking around using your regular name on the the command deck of one of the, if not the, most famous ships in the universe might not be the best way to go about maintaining such a charade.

.. least he's changed out of the klingon clothing/uniform anyway eh ?

enjoyable enough overall -- thought the Spock actor -- thus far -- has been alright.



Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/02 13:02:13


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Spock thing is starting to get on my pip a bit.

Rest of it was good. Building up some interesting stuff to explore later.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/02 14:39:31


Post by: Chillreaper


As ever, Georgiou has the most memorable moments.

I love it when she gets to go all Crouching Tiger on people.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/02 22:21:23


Post by: trexmeyer


I mean...isn't it obvious that Star Trek Discovery is a retcon? So was Enterprise. This is one of the general issues with prequels.

Spoiler:

In ToS: Balance of Terror the Enterprise encountered a cloaking device and Romulans for the first time. Spock didn't even know that they were related to Vulcans until seeing one.

Enterprise introduced cloaking devices much earlier and Federation encounters with Romulans and Discovery continued this with the Klingons possessing some cloaking technology.

During DS9 no one knew about Section 31 and they were not mentioned at all during ToS and TNG (as they had not been written in yet).

Somehow the entire crew in Discovery knows about them and Section 31 then goes into being completely unheard of within ~200 years.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/03 18:38:07


Post by: Souleater


Vaulk (sort of former Klingon dude) should at least have a shave and a haircut. Unless his appearance is meant to be him hanging onto a form of identity?

I am getting an internet cookie that Tilly is the Red Angel.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/03 18:44:29


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Very interested to see how things play out with Robo-Spod.

We’ve had little info on her so far, so the last episode promises much.

Will it deliver? Who knows? Could lead to fascinating backstory, or she’ll be a mere viral vector. And indeed everything in between.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/03 23:12:20


Post by: Mr Morden


 Souleater wrote:
Vaulk (sort of former Klingon dude) should at least have a shave and a haircut. Unless his appearance is meant to be him hanging onto a form of identity?

I am getting an internet cookie that Tilly is the Red Angel.


Yeah - not quite as bad as yet more Super Burnham but nearly as much.

Another highly variable episode - Suru taking over was nicely done and showed how he would work as a captain.

Pike and Tyler are good fun together in comparison to the whole Spock (well Burnham) story is just dull and badly done. Whilst the Empress working her way through Section 31 is good and nicely in character, the whole fly away and hide in a shuttle was laughable.

Sarak remains well played but Amanda is all over the place like most of the other faults - thats the writters.

Was that a Borgified probe?

The cyborg/robot woman being taken over - ok - as long as its not a story that is solved in five minutes by "sigh" Burnham and Tilly - as always


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/04 01:15:20


Post by: Formosa


I doubt it would be Borg, it's not green enough, plus the Borg are kinda a trump card to bring in and a fan favourite (for the most part), I can't see them bringing in the Borg unless the series is doing really badly, I am hoping they are not building up to the temporal cold war story line either, that ruined enterprise for me :(


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/04 09:43:45


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Unless it's City on the Edge of Forever or The Voyage Home, time travel in Star trek is awful.

Honourable mentions for the episode of TNG where they get stuck in a loop with Frasier, the tribbles episdoe of DS9 (which is where they should have left the whole thing with Klingon foreheads - in fact, they should have given Mchael Dorn TOS-era Klingon makeup and never referred to it) and First Contact - where the time travel is stupid but the rest of the film makes up for it.


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/04 12:01:43


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


Kinda feeling they're missing an opportunity with Cpt. Leeland. He'd be a much more interesting character if he were actually a nice guy, instead of SURPRISE MIND EXTRACTOR. The dichotomy of having a genuinely decent character in Section 31 would have been nice to explore; surely they're not ALL sociopaths?


Star Trek: general discussion :Picard trailer p#16 @ 2019/03/04 12:58:32


Post by: Mr Morden


 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Kinda feeling they're missing an opportunity with Cpt. Leeland. He'd be a much more interesting character if he were actually a nice guy, instead of SURPRISE MIND EXTRACTOR. The dichotomy of having a genuinely decent character in Section 31 would have been nice to explore; surely they're not ALL sociopaths?


Agreed - could have been really interesting with Pike and him being old friends - one assumes that they are mostly people who believe what they do has to be done......there was an element to this in conversation between Pike and Leeland about shades of grey.

I wonder if we are going to see Georgio climb further and eventualy end up with it as her own organisation which is when it becoems even mroe shadowy?