Have you ever wanted to field your entire Warhammer 40,000 collection in a single game? What about the pipedream of many an Adeptus Astartes player of unleashing the might of a full Space Marine Battle Company (and more besides)? Well, with the incredible new Apocalypse boxed set, playing massive battles with your Warhammer 40,000 miniatures has never been easier!
This new game consists of an innovative rules system that enables you to fight even the largest battles to completion in a matter of hours, with minimal downtime between player actions.
Along with the Apocalypse Field Manual (your complete guide to playing cinematic, massed battles in the 41st Millennium), the set includes dozens of pop-out card tokens for keeping track of the action, from orders assigned to each Detachment to large and small blast markers that represent a unit’s embattled status. There are also a whopping 300 Command Asset cards – split between universal and faction-specific cards – from which you can create a custom deck to give you the edge in battle. Command Assets are used in Apocalypse to unleash devastating psychic powers and pull off cunning strategies, so you’ll want to make sure you choose the best combination for the units and Detachments at your disposal.
On that note, if you want even more variety in the tactical nuances at your disposal, the Apocalypse Command Assets set offers you a further 100 cards to choose from.
Other handy accessories include an Apocalypse dice set, which includes 25 six-sided dice (D6s) and 25 twelve-sided dice (D12s) – after all, this is Apocalypse, so you’ll be rolling bucketloads of dice! – and packs of transparent Movement Trays designed for Citadel 25mm, 32mm and 40mm Round Bases to help speed up gameplay and get your vast infantry formations stuck into the action!
We are making all of the datasheets for Apocalypse available as FREE downloads at launch, so you’ll be able to start playing straight away. Some of the more popular units will also have cards of their datasheets available to buy if you want a handy physical reference.
Apocalypse Battalions
To help start a new collection or bolster an existing force, we’ve created 10 hand-picked Battalions, each comprising the core of an Apocalypse Detachment and saving you money. These Battalions are only available in limited numbers, so be sure to secure yours early to avoid disappointment.
Armoured Support
The mighty Baneblade of the Astra Militarum and its seven variants (yes, seven variants!) of super-heavy battle tank will also be rolling out for the Apocalypse in a spiffy new-look box. If you need some serious fire support, look no further than these steel behemoths of war.
Meanwhile, Adeptus Astartes armies will be able to call upon the ferocious firepower of a Primaris Repulsor Executioner. If you thought the standard Repulsor was covered in guns, you haven’t seen anything yet!
Not to be outdone, the Adeptus Mechanicus are also set to receive a new hover vehicle in the form of a dual kit. The Skorpius Disintegrator offers some heavy firepower, while the Skorpius Dunerider will provide your Skitarii units with a swift troop transport.
Black Library
If you’re chomping at the bit to unleash massed warfare, then why not ramp up the excitement by picking up Josh Reynolds’ new Space Marine Conquests novel too – aptly titled Apocalypse! In it, forces from the Imperial Fists, White Scars and Raven Guard mobilise to defend the cardinal world of Almace from an invasion by the twisted traitors of the Word Bearers.
All of these Apocalyptic goodies will be up for pre-order as of Saturday 29th June – which is also Warhammer Day! – so be sure to head down to your local store and place your pre-orders while you join in the celebration. We’ll be revealing more about Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse over the coming days and weeks (starting with an overview of the game tomorrow), so be sure to check back with us every day!
Theophony wrote: Just in time with the new paints to get all that grey taken care of.
Another nail in the old marines coffin as they get no bundles.
No surprise there. They really are being written out as well- per Devastation of Baal the BA and descended chapters are 60-70% Primaris already due to the casualties they suffered and the reinforcements that turned up afterwards. And everything going forward will be Primaris (except possibly the Fleshtearers).
I'm actually more concerned about the Craftworlds box. Between this and the Getting Started box, there seems to be significant lack of eldar, beyond a token seer.
Well, the box sets will be nice if they offer similar discounts to the Battleforce boxes, but they just had to fething turn it into a card game with miniatures.
Theophony wrote: Just in time with the new paints to get all that grey taken care of.
Another nail in the old marines coffin as they get no bundles.
No surprise there. They really are being written out as well- per Devastation of Baal the BA and descended chapters are 60-70% Primaris already due to the casualties they suffered and the reinforcements that turned up afterwards. And everything going forward will be Primaris (except possibly the Fleshtearers).
I'm actually more concerned about the Craftworlds box. Between this and the Getting Started box, there seems to be significant lack of eldar, beyond a token seer.
I'm curious what the prices will be.
That could be good for the Eldar as they may be getting a whole new redesign or slew of products.
Not really bothered about the game as I barely have room for regular 40k. Like Urban conquest I suspect this is more for clubs or groups. But some of those bundles could tempt me if the price is right.
I am looking forward to seeing what the new tanks can do though
Bundle Contents and cost in US $ for individual units.
No idea what the bundle prices will be, or if they'll be the same. There is a $45.50 variation betwen orks (lowest total price point of contents) and Tau (highest total)
Orks - mek with SA gun, 6 kans, 2 dreads, an ork mek
27+ 92.50+99+21= $239.50
Tau- 6 battlesuits, Riptide, Commander + the accompanying 13 drones, which… isn’t the right number of drones. Either the ones from the Riptide weren’t counted or aren’t included.
150+85+50= $285 (highest value)
Craftworld- 15 wraithguard, 2 dreads, Spirit Seer from Wake the Dead box, still not available individually
150+92.50+[25]= $267.50
Some of those box contents are downright weird. Some have a strong theme (Craftworld, Orks), some are a weird mix of brand new units and ancient kits (CSM), others are just... random (Necrons) or generic battleline core (Marines)
In some ways chaos marines are the worst option. If you don't need/want the old kits, it'd be cheaper to buy the new marines by themselves, unless they're seriously knocking $105 off the price of the bundle.
I see the craftworld box selling out first, and the CSM/Primaris not selling out at all (too much overlap with what people already have. Good for people starting an army though)
Theophony wrote: Just in time with the new paints to get all that grey taken care of.
Another nail in the old marines coffin as they get no bundles.
Drukhari didn't get any bundles either.
Nor did any of the non-Codex Chapters.
Oh man and I guess Custodes are gone too, they didn't get one!
Death Guard and Thousand Sons? No bundles, gone!
There's a Start Collecting Space Marines set that gives you old marines.
The only dud is that you get a Dominus. I can't think of anyone who has ever said "Man, I need another Dominus..." at this point.
Yeah putting some of the newer character models like the Manipulus in the sets would sweeten the deal. Its seems especially odd as the Eldar set looks like it has the Seer from Wake the Dead.
The Necron box looks weird from the outside but it's actually a box full of units Necron players might want, instead of sprues and sprues of unloved Warriors.
Phaeron Gukk wrote: The Necron box looks weird from the outside but it's actually a box full of units Necron players might want, instead of sprues and sprues of unloved Warriors.
Warriors wouldn't be that bad except start collecting does that. Apart from triple damned cryptek nothing duplicates with that so in that sense good set. If it had command barge rather than cryptek that is just discount diluter it would be perfect
MonkeyBallistic wrote: If people are looking at these as 40k starters, then they vary enormously in usefulness. The one that tempts me is the knights box.
Honestly, these things look great for 40k starters. Each of them is a Detachment.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: Since the Battalion boxes are limited in numbers I hope they don't include highly desirable special rules with them.
I am pretty excited for this overall.
They did say the following in the Warhammer Community article...
We are making all of the datasheets for Apocalypse available as FREE downloads at launch, so you’ll be able to start playing straight away. Some of the more popular units will also have cards of their datasheets available to buy if you want a handy physical reference.
That Tyranid one makes me feel bad only because I've actually got more than that content in unbuilt sprues at home and yet - I still want it.
Someone please send me some help for my addiction!
Wait maybe if I've got 2 weeks I could try and push on and finish the ones I've got! If I did that I could buy more couldn't I!
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Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: Since the Battalion boxes are limited in numbers I hope they don't include highly desirable special rules with them.
I am pretty excited for this overall.
I'm pretty sure those boxes will mostly sell out during that week - a big short term mid-year blitz sale of models by GW riding off the high of the Apoc system.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: Since the Battalion boxes are limited in numbers I hope they don't include highly desirable special rules with them.
I am pretty excited for this overall.
They did say the following in the Warhammer Community article...
We are making all of the datasheets for Apocalypse available as FREE downloads at launch, so you’ll be able to start playing straight away. Some of the more popular units will also have cards of their datasheets available to buy if you want a handy physical reference.
Yes, but while all the datasheets are free I'm a little concerned it will be like Kill Team where the individual boxes contain special rules. Since these Battalion boxes are a limited release I doubt they will do that (or at least I hope they won't).
Biggest flaw wlth these for me is rather unfortunate timing. By the time these comes out i'm in japan. If l order them they will be sent to sender before i come home. And unlikely any left on august :/
Wonder if independent stores don't mind delaying shipping by month? Probably do...
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: Since the Battalion boxes are limited in numbers I hope they don't include highly desirable special rules with them.
I am pretty excited for this overall.
They did say the following in the Warhammer Community article...
We are making all of the datasheets for Apocalypse available as FREE downloads at launch, so you’ll be able to start playing straight away. Some of the more popular units will also have cards of their datasheets available to buy if you want a handy physical reference.
Yes, but while all the datasheets are free I'm a little concerned it will be like Kill Team where the individual boxes contain special rules. Since these Battalion boxes are a limited release I doubt they will do that (or at least I hope they won't).
Does it say anywhere that they do?
No. So they won't. They always advertise that fact when it's a thing. Plus 40k sets aren't really getting them as much these days.
I'm keen to see whether the new rules mechanics will work at the usual 40k sizes. If this can
a) speed up battles to the point where people who have very little time to play (like me, say) and
b) let me get some use out of cool units that always die immediately in regular 40k well, then I'm in!
Soooo, does the new box and Apoc mean that the Baneblade might be available at third party sellers again? I won't ever get one at German GW prices, but at a nice discount from the UK...hmh. I never ordered one while the pound was 1.08€ and my brother still complains about not having a Baneblade because of that.
Snugiraffe wrote: I'm keen to see whether the new rules mechanics will work at the usual 40k sizes. If this can
a) speed up battles to the point where people who have very little time to play (like me, say) and
b) let me get some use out of cool units that always die immediately in regular 40k well, then I'm in!
That’s an interesting question. How far down will this scale?
This release will mean that there’ll be 3 tiers of game using the same miniature range; Kill Team, 40k and Apocalypse. Kill Team definitely has its own niche and will continue to be played. I can’t see Apocalypse and 40k not treading on each other’s toes somewhat, however.
Theophony wrote: Just in time with the new paints to get all that grey taken care of.
Another nail in the old marines coffin as they get no bundles.
Drukhari didn't get any bundles either.
Nor did any of the non-Codex Chapters.
Oh man and I guess Custodes are gone too, they didn't get one!
Death Guard and Thousand Sons? No bundles, gone!
There's a Start Collecting Space Marines set that gives you old marines.
Just to clarify, you actually think that normal size marines are still going to get new production models? He's merely pointing out that the classic marine line is no longer expanding and will only be in decline. He's correct. Why be an ass?
Just to clarify, you actually think that normal size marines are still going to get new production models? He's merely pointing out that the classic marine line is no longer expanding and will only be in decline. He's correct. Why be an ass?
Did the line really need to be expanded? No. And yet we not long ago got the Deathwatch range, which brought in old Marines despite being released not long before Primaris got unveiled. We got a new GK character and a whole range that is specifically stated to not be getting Primaris anytime soon.
He "merely pointed out" nothing.
Did you really expect there to be bundles for "old Marines" when they still have Start Collecting sets across C: SM, BA, SW, and Deathwatch?
Tyranids- Tyrant, Trygon, 3x Tyrannofex (with Tervigon parts I assume)
57.75*4+53.75= $284.75
I'm seeing two carnifexes & one Tyrannofex
Bah, so they are. There are enough similar features that I just thought they were further back in the picture.
Fixed:
Tyranids- Tyrant, Trygon, 2 Carnifexes, 1 Tyrannofex (with Tervigon parts I assume)
57.75*2+90+53.75= $259.25
Makes more sense as a 40K detachment, yet I'm somewhat disappointed regardless.
I'm actually kind of interested in those movement trays, slightly more for AOS than 40K. Wonder how much those are gonna run and exactly how many are in the box (the side has several pics and then a "x2" on one corner, but not sure if that means "all of the above x2" or "all of the above plus 2 of this one").
Valander wrote: I'm actually kind of interested in those movement trays, slightly more for AOS than 40K. Wonder how much those are gonna run and exactly how many are in the box (the side has several pics and then a "x2" on one corner, but not sure if that means "all of the above x2" or "all of the above plus 2 of this one").
I just can't imagine they'll charge an arm and a leg for those movement trays that everyone and their grandmother is making movement trays out of plastic or MDF.
Great, just when I think I might be done buying miniatures for a while, along come some big new bundle boxes to test my resolve.
I'm immediately tempted whenever there's a Craftworlds box. It's nuts, because I've already got 20 Wraithguard, 3 Wraithlords and the Spiritseer, I really don't need this one. Yet, the temptation is still there. The knights too - I've got Renegade still in the box, and this would add to it nicely and make it into a decent little knight army.
It's nice to see the new baneblade box, if only because (as someone already mentioned) it may mean it's no longer a webstore exclusive and can be had for FLGS discount.
The Apocalypse box itself... well... I guess it's fitting for my massive pile of models to own the Apocalypse rules, but it does look like an uninspiring box of cards to me at this point. I wonder what they'll be charging for it.
I'm curious how many D12s will be needed. I've got a few kicking around somewhere, but will likely need to order more. Will it really need as many as 25 like the one dice pack they're selling?
Don't want any of that stuff in terms of apocalypse the actual game system or even Abby if the battle force boxes but I do want the new marine tank for sure.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I bought in heavily the last time GW did Apoc.
Never even opened the cards before 7th Ed hit.
Not again...
On the other hand, this appears to be its own complete ruleset, and would be unaffected by any shift in the standard 40K rules. Appears to be, anyway. It's odd, though, how GW seems to be underhyping this in comparison to, say, a new range of paints.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I bought in heavily the last time GW did Apoc.
Never even opened the cards before 7th Ed hit.
Not again...
On the other hand, this appears to be its own complete ruleset, and would be unaffected by any shift in the standard 40K rules. Appears to be, anyway. It's odd, though, how GW seems to be underhyping this in comparison to, say, a new range of paints.
I'm actually intensely curious if it will be a better way of playing sensible scale 40k than 40k is.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I bought in heavily the last time GW did Apoc.
Never even opened the cards before 7th Ed hit.
Not again...
On the other hand, this appears to be its own complete ruleset, and would be unaffected by any shift in the standard 40K rules. Appears to be, anyway. It's odd, though, how GW seems to be underhyping this in comparison to, say, a new range of paints.
Probably because it’s the latest summer box shifter and not something they have great plans to hugely support, as with every other permutation of Apocalypse. Get people to buy a big box, an army bundle of miniatures they already produce, and some absurdly-marked-up Movement Trays, then laugh all the way to the bank.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I bought in heavily the last time GW did Apoc.
Never even opened the cards before 7th Ed hit.
Not again...
On the other hand, this appears to be its own complete ruleset, and would be unaffected by any shift in the standard 40K rules. Appears to be, anyway. It's odd, though, how GW seems to be underhyping this in comparison to, say, a new range of paints.
I'm actually intensely curious if it will be a better way of playing sensible scale 40k than 40k is.
I kinda find it humorous that these Apocalypse army sets have so few models. “Play massive games!” and the classic horde armies have a dozen or less models
Nostromodamus wrote: I kinda find it humorous that these Apocalypse army sets have so few models. “Play massive games!” and the classic horde armies have a dozen or less models
Bear in mind that this version of Apocalypse is shifting to activating Detachments at a time.
Maybe Apocalypse detachments are treated like LOTR warbands for the sake of list building - one detachment consists of an HQ model and a certain number of models/units for each HQ you have.
could just be that they can't justify putting 2 HQs in a box. I mean it's a pretty impressive set up. the price'll be the big thing though. I got a hunch we're looking at dark imperium priceing. which is a decent deal. although I imagine everyone by now has all the primaris marines they need
Theophony wrote: Just in time with the new paints to get all that grey taken care of.
Another nail in the old marines coffin as they get no bundles.
Drukhari didn't get any bundles either.
Nor did any of the non-Codex Chapters.
Oh man and I guess Custodes are gone too, they didn't get one!
Death Guard and Thousand Sons? No bundles, gone!
There's a Start Collecting Space Marines set that gives you old marines.
Thanks Kan , you missed the point as usual. Good job.
Ughhh... because every eldar player is lacking cheap wraith units to buy on E-bay from the start collecting and wake the dead sets people have been re-selling.... However I guess the wake the dead exclusive spirit seer isn't that wake the dead exclusive after all.
Argive wrote: Ughhh... because every eldar player is lacking cheap wraith units to buy on E-bay from the start collecting and wake the dead sets people have been re-selling....
Well it was either them or another box full of plastic Guardians, Vyper Jetbikes and Dire Avengers. The Eldar range is very much lacking in plastics, with the greater majority of their Aspect Warriors still in FineCost.
It means that Eldar boxed sets fall into two categories: Guardians/Avengers/Wave Serpents/Vypers or Wraith Constructs.
Argive wrote: However I guess the wake the dead exclusive spirit seer isn't that wake the dead exclusive after all.
I've been planning on a second castellan for a while, and another pair of helverins will bring me up to 6. Hope my flags gets that box, I reserved it through them if they do. And 4 duneriders and a repulsor. Glad to have a bit more time to prepare my wallet for the pain than usual.
Argive wrote: Ughhh... because every eldar player is lacking cheap wraith units to buy on E-bay from the start collecting and wake the dead sets people have been re-selling....
However I guess the wake the dead exclusive spirit seer isn't that wake the dead exclusive after all.
There is no real exclusive models. They come later on own later anyway so boxes etc are only to sell discounted ones until they come separatedly later. Nobody should buy anything because it's exlusive because it isn't
Argive wrote: Ughhh... because every eldar player is lacking cheap wraith units to buy on E-bay from the start collecting and wake the dead sets people have been re-selling....
Well it was either them or another box full of plastic Guardians, Vyper Jetbikes and Dire Avengers. The Eldar range is very much lacking in plastics, with the greater majority of their Aspect Warriors still in FineCost.
It means that Eldar boxed sets fall into two categories: Guardians/Avengers/Wave Serpents/Vypers or Wraith Constructs.
Argive wrote: However I guess the wake the dead exclusive spirit seer isn't that wake the dead exclusive after all.
It was never going to be.
I thought I saw it somewhere when wake the dead was being sold. Very likely Im mistaken. I have not bought it because it had exclusive model in it but because I could sell all the marines and buy more stuff I wanted...
They could have used prisms/night spinners, walkers/planes...windriders, a knight even though they are terrible. I got the bladehost battleforce on a discount last years and it was very good value for money. Apart from the single vyper... lol
20 guardians and 10 dire avengers wouldn't have hurt as well to start people on a useable battalion.
Alternatively a big bundle of jetbikes plus a hemlock/hunter Literally any combination, that's not wraiths.. Don't get me wrong. I love wraiths.
Eldar have a lot of failcast but they also have numerous plastic kits...
A few of those bundles are a nice start for a force regardless of which version of the game you play, for that I'm grateful.
That said, time to say this: thanks for bringing Apocalypse back, now get superheavies, fliers, and Titans/Knights out of 40K proper. We need to get back to its roots as a smaller skirmish force battle.
Keep on pipe dreaming. They won't reduce potential sales for sakeof alternative short term rulesets. They won't go from 40k period. Better get used to it. It's over decade too late for that
I'm still playing 3rd, I'll still get in a good game regardless of what GW does currently. If they want me buying and pushing the current ruleset, they'll dial it in. If they think disposable income equipped tweens can carry the game, they'll stay the course.
The only one that appeals to me is the CSM one, because, if the discount is good enough, then it's a great way to get a stack of the new CSM kits (and the exact amount I wanted to get).
Ancient bikes? Sure. Whatever. I can convert them into something else like I my current bikers are all 'Zerker Bikers using bits from the 'Zerker kit and FW.
What is it with Tau boxed sets? "Here's 6 Crisis Suits - we know everyone buys the Start Collecting when they get Fire Warriors and so probably has more Crisis Suits than they could ever field, but here's six more."
How about putting three Broadsides into a box set?
John Prins wrote: What is it with Tau boxed sets? "Here's 6 Crisis Suits - we know everyone buys the Start Collecting when they get Fire Warriors and so probably has more Crisis Suits than they could ever field, but here's six more."
How about putting three Broadsides into a box set?
Because it is fluffy? They probably don't bear on the assumption people run MSU.
Theophony wrote: Just in time with the new paints to get all that grey taken care of.
Another nail in the old marines coffin as they get no bundles.
Drukhari didn't get any bundles either.
Nor did any of the non-Codex Chapters.
Oh man and I guess Custodes are gone too, they didn't get one!
Death Guard and Thousand Sons? No bundles, gone!
There's a Start Collecting Space Marines set that gives you old marines.
Thanks Kan , you missed the point as usual. Good job.
You had a point? Where?
So far the biggest surprise with this Apoc release is that the only new kits associated with it are standard vehicles, not new super-heavies. No, a repackaged Baneblade kit doesn't count as new
Am I the only one that thought this was satire of the state of 8th edition? It's a card game, great.... movement trays are fine. I guess.
Was anyone really not already playing "apoc" in 8th? Was there a lack of knights and super heavies out there?
The video didn't help much IMO.
cruddace (parahprasing) : "it'll play faster at whatnot" People seem to pride the absurd scale and length of their apoc games or events, not sure why that's a selling point for a game with a big model count is that it will play faster... great... same logistics but it plays like kill team, super. -heavy sigh-
other dude (parahprasing): "and you can play wif all ur models" Because that was somehow a problem for anyone in 8th edition? This is some big liberation from the edition where army composition is just beyond silly from a baseline?
Last point... 4 giant stacks of cards. I don't want to see another card ever again. The cards soured me from kill team, if I have to ever buy a pack of cards for 30k I'll check myself into the psych ward. This is already giving me flashbacks to the month long shelf life of psychic decks.
Am I the only one that thought this was satire of the state of 8th edition? It's a card game, great.... movement trays are fine. I guess.
Was anyone really not already playing "apoc" in 8th? Was there a lack of knights and super heavies out there?
The video didn't help much IMO.
cruddace (parahprasing) : "it'll play faster at whatnot" People seem to pride the absurd scale and length of their apoc games or events, not sure why that's a selling point for a game with a big model count is that it will play faster... great... same logistics but it plays like kill team, super. -heavy sigh-
other dude (parahprasing): "and you can play wif all ur models" Because that was somehow a problem for anyone in 8th edition? This is some big liberation from the edition where army composition is just beyond silly from a baseline?
Last point... 4 giant stacks of cards. I don't want to see another card ever again. The cards soured me from kill team, if I have to ever buy a pack of cards for 30k I'll check myself into the psych ward. This is already giving me flashbacks to the month long shelf life of psychic decks.
Same here.
I kind liked cards for psychic powers but that's about it.
Too much is too much, and these cards will be trashed when the next edition rolls out, like they did before.
40K (or WFB for that matter) had cards, but remained models based games.
Not so sure now.
And I never, ever played a card game, and do non plan to do so,
I think Apocalypse is not for me like I stayed out of Kill Team for the same reason.
tneva82 wrote: Except just slapping 10k worth of 40k models with 40k rules does not generate big battle feel.
Well, having truckloads of miniatures crammed like lice on a dog's back in a regular table doesn't exactly help in that regard either; it kinda looks like maybe the center of a big melee, instead of an actual battle.
mortar_crew wrote: Too much is too much, and these cards will be trashed when the next edition rolls out, like they did before.
Umh you realize right this is not linked to 40k rules? So 40k changing rules is irrelevant as this is it's own ruleset separate from 40k. You don't use 40k rules, stats, codexes or anything. Are you saying blood bowl cards etc becomes useless when age of sigmar rules change?
Oh, it's been a long waiting for this. Is anyone else wondering that are those card decks going to replace the stratagems or other stuff from codexes? I'm glad that they fixed the most biggest problem from Apocalypse, that you can activate a model before it is removed from play.
mortar_crew wrote: Too much is too much, and these cards will be trashed when the next edition rolls out, like they did before.
Umh you realize right this is not linked to 40k rules? So 40k changing rules is irrelevant as this is it's own ruleset separate from 40k. You don't use 40k rules, stats, codexes or anything. Are you saying blood bowl cards etc becomes useless when age of sigmar rules change?
Well, I hear you but...
There is also something called experience: is this the third avatar of "Apocalypse"?
All others got trashed when 40k version changed. I find difficult to see a stand alone game, like Necromunda or Space Hulk.
That said, I bougth the other Apocalypse(s) but I feel no need to buy this one.
Well this is stand alone game so if you have hard time to see it just wait until it is released and then you'll see stand alone game.
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Spreelock wrote: Oh, it's been a long waiting for this. Is anyone else wondering that are those card decks going to replace the stratagems or other stuff from codexes? I'm glad that they fixed the most biggest problem from Apocalypse, that you can activate a model before it is removed from play.
tneva82 wrote: Well this is stand alone game so if you have hard time to see it just wait until it is released and then you'll see stand alone game.
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Spreelock wrote: Oh, it's been a long waiting for this. Is anyone else wondering that are those card decks going to replace the stratagems or other stuff from codexes? I'm glad that they fixed the most biggest problem from Apocalypse, that you can activate a model before it is removed from play.
Well, I hear you but...
There is also something called experience: is this the third avatar of "Apocalypse"?
All others got trashed when 40k version changed. I find difficult to see a stand alone game, like Necromunda or Space Hulk.
That said, I bougth the other Apocalypse(s) but I feel no need to buy this one.
The previous so called "apocalypse" are a supplement to their edition rule
We knew the unit will have a different datasheet than their 40k one, so at least the rule is somewhat different. (or maybe they're the "Killteam" kinda datasheet, mean they're 90% identical to their 8th edition one)
But whether or not this get supported for the long run is uncertain. I reckon it won't be a very popular game.
The game being standalone and faster than regular 40k are definite improvements on the concept. For some reason in 7th they thought Apocalypse2 should play slower than regular 40k
Argive wrote: Ughhh... because every eldar player is lacking cheap wraith units to buy on E-bay from the start collecting and wake the dead sets people have been re-selling....
However I guess the wake the dead exclusive spirit seer isn't that wake the dead exclusive after all.
There is no real exclusive models. They come later on own later anyway so boxes etc are only to sell discounted ones until they come separatedly later. Nobody should buy anything because it's exlusive because it isn't
Did they ever release Shadow Captain Solaq as a separate blister? Non-primaris Ravenguard character in plastic -now thats exclusive
Anyway, Im surprised they did not bring in the new chaos knights to this. Sad to see just Imperium get new tanks, and yet another repackaging of the Baneblade.
That captain model is available bundled with the Command Squad. That's why, when I googled "Shadow captain solaq", it showed up in Ultramarines colours.
AndrewGPaul wrote: That captain model is available bundled with the Command Squad. That's why, when I googled "Shadow captain solaq", it showed up in Ultramarines colours.
I'm super hyped for this. But I don't think I'm gonna pre-order. I have found myself with a lack of time, opponents, and cash recently. So I'll wait for the reviews to drop before deciding if I'm going to invest in a system I will likely only play once in, Like happened with Necromunda and Kill Team.
lord_blackfang wrote: The game being standalone and faster than regular 40k are definite improvements on the concept. For some reason in 7th they thought Apocalypse2 should play slower than regular 40k
I think the thinking was people were putting a lot of models on the table and wanted a long full day/weekend type of game. The kind with huge armies and epic sweeping moments.
Ergo the kind that was far more a social event than a gaming event. I think now they've decided that time is important and speeding it up is going to help a lot in getting more people involved playing far more apoc games!
lord_blackfang wrote: The game being standalone and faster than regular 40k are definite improvements on the concept. For some reason in 7th they thought Apocalypse2 should play slower than regular 40k
I think the thinking was people were putting a lot of models on the table and wanted a long full day/weekend type of game. The kind with huge armies and epic sweeping moments.
Ergo the kind that was far more a social event than a gaming event. I think now they've decided that time is important and speeding it up is going to help a lot in getting more people involved playing far more apoc games!
this is doubly so as really apoc didn't add much to 40k in the past, and what it did add was stuff that is pretty much core. so there's room to make apoc a more stream lined way to do large scale games
Yeah. Rulewise it can work. Too bad it falls apart with models that are too big for large scale games in practical considerations. Not many have like 12'x8' boards to play with.
Right then, word on the Grapevine is that each and every Apocalypse Formation boxed set will have a £100 RRP.
Each offers some kind of saving, but I'm afraid I'm much too lazy to work them out myself. But the Ad-Mech looks to be a £48.00 saving compared to buying them separately.
So whilst you may not want the Magos Dominus, it's still a £26 saving on buying the Robots separately. Sourced from the online discounter of your own preference, there is of course a larger saving to be had.
That's even sweeter than I was hoping(115). If true I really need to figure way to sort of timing issue. Especially if I can get those from 3rd party without postage killing benefits. Necron one is 156£ flat out. Even with the useless(since I already have 1 and you don't want to spam them) cryptek 136£ so 36£ saving...
lord_blackfang wrote: The game being standalone and faster than regular 40k are definite improvements on the concept. For some reason in 7th they thought Apocalypse2 should play slower than regular 40k
You should've seen the Apocalypse game where a Space Marine Battle Company drop podded into the midst of a Tau army.
Rest of the players had nothing to do for the better part of an hour as massed Overwatch kicked off.
My poor, currently ruleless Ordinatus fired all of two shots!
Cracking game in the end though. Just.....slooooooow
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Right then, word on the Grapevine is that each and every Apocalypse Formation boxed set will have a £100 RRP.
Each offers some kind of saving, but I'm afraid I'm much too lazy to work them out myself. But the Ad-Mech looks to be a £48.00 saving compared to buying them separately.
So whilst you may not want the Magos Dominus, it's still a £26 saving on buying the Robots separately. Sourced from the online discounter of your own preference, there is of course a larger saving to be had.
£100 is better than I was expecting too! The Tyranid one is £156 so that basically means a free pair of carnifex in the set. Even if it only sells at GW that's a good price discount, if they go through 3rd parties then that's even more discount on top! If they are that good a deal I wouldn't expect many if any to survive the pre-order date let alone the pre order week. One or two might, but I'd wager they will fly off the shelves.
At £100 before retailer discount, the Imperial Knight one is pretty tempting, to prepare for the Chaos Knights codex. I already have 2 of the other Armigers from Forgebane, add a Chaos Knight and the Dex when they come out...
Two of those would be £150.00, via Element or Darksphere (or the online discount seller of your own preference).....and would bag me £290.00 worth of clanky, stompy deff.......
Two of those would be £150.00, via Element or Darksphere (or the online discount seller of your own preference).....and would bag me £290.00 worth of clanky, stompy deff.......
Oh my!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ooooh, snap!
Only issue is 2 castellan isn't THAT useful. Especially after the nerf. Too bad castellan/valiant isn't dual kit or that would be sweet double dip deal indeed.
Two of those would be £150.00, via Element or Darksphere (or the online discount seller of your own preference).....and would bag me £290.00 worth of clanky, stompy deff.......
Oh my!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ooooh, snap!
Only issue is 2 castellan isn't THAT useful. Especially after the nerf. Too bad castellan/valiant isn't dual kit or that would be sweet double dip deal indeed.
Ahhh...but if Chaos Castellan will still be able to double up on the weapons? Imagine....two Flamestorm Cannon things on a single Knight. ROASTY TOASTY! ROASTY TOASTY FOR EVERYONE!
tneva82 wrote: Well this is stand alone game so if you have hard time to see it just wait until it is released and then you'll see stand alone game.
Seeing 40k codexes are irrelevant in this game...
Yeah, that might be the case. I'm still excited about this, maybe they bring back the formations, like in the 7th edition. Those were absolutely brutal..
I've been wanting to build a Tau robot army for a while now.. this could be just what I need to get started. Maybe I missed it, any word on the prices for these sets yet?
Necros wrote: I've been wanting to build a Tau robot army for a while now.. this could be just what I need to get started. Maybe I missed it, any word on the prices for these sets yet?
One page back the Mad Doc has heard that they are in the £100 bracket.
Necros wrote: I've been wanting to build a Tau robot army for a while now.. this could be just what I need to get started. Maybe I missed it, any word on the prices for these sets yet?
If Grotsnik's posted price is the retail price rather than a discounted price from a 3rd party, they'd be $160 going off of GW's pricebands.
Which means that they will go fast, especially since they're called out as limited quantities from the outset.
Here's the breakdown on prices for stuff individually(in USD):
AdMech--$243
Tau--$285
Necrons--$261
Space Marines--$280
Craftworlds--$267.50[this is assuming $25 on the Spiritseer, which is pretty likely as he's on a 25mm base rather than a 32mm)
Guard--$250.25
Tyranids--$259.25
Orks--$249.50
Knights--$245
Chaos Marines--$284.75
That would put, assuming $160 is correct and is MSRP rather than a discounted price, the savings at:
AdMech--$83
Tau--$125
Necrons--$101
Space Marines--$120
Craftworlds--$107.50
Guard--$90.25
Tyranids--$99.25
Orks--$89.50
Knights--$85
Chaos Marines--$124.75
this is doubly so as really apoc didn't add much to 40k in the past, and what it did add was stuff that is pretty much core. so there's room to make apoc a more stream lined way to do large scale games
I wouldn't say that. Some of the old Apocs have indeed been rules-laboratories for stuff that later moved to "mainstream"-40K.
Lords of War/Superheavies being originally Apoc-only is the obvious, but there are others.
Allies: 4th/5th (basically) didn't have allies, but Apoc had a system to allow people to merge their armies for big Apoc games, which later became the 6th/7th allies system (from battle brothers to "come the apocalypse", which were literally apoc-game-only allies).
Formations: The very appearance of formations was Apoc, not least to "speed up" (*cough*) the game, thus instead of shooting 3, say, vindicator-tanks separately, you could shoot them all at once using one apoc-giant-template instead. It was the birth of stuff like Linebreaker Bombardment, which later became "mainstream"-stuff in 40K as Formations (and even has a nod in the current rules as a Stratagem). Indeed, those now "Apocalypse Battalions" seem a much more genuine variant of "Formations" than the optional keyword-buy-in of the Vigilus books.
8th Edition being pretty much exactly 2 years old now, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the stuff -- alternating activation of detachments (or some other form of "battle-group"/"formation") or delayed-damage-mechanisms to take the sting out of alpha-strikes are also some test balloons and brainstorming ideas for stuff we might see in 9th edition in the "main game" come 2021 or so.
Of course what they should'a done was put this guy in the AdMech box, not another blasted Dominus. Those guys are like McDonald's fries. They come with everything.
Even if it comes out to 50% off retail that's still a heluva deal, for any set. I also like the knights, but I think for a big robot army the tau look better and will be more fun to paint, and paint quick. Wonder if it would be worth getting 2 boxes to have a big army? But then I'd probably build half, paint half of that, and then forget about it, if there's too much work
I'd also wanna add in a stormsurge, ghostkeel and a couple of broadsides.. so there goes another $300. I think I need another tax return...
If the Knight was the one with the huge spear chucka I'd be powerless at 100£ (80£ with online discount?) including Helverins. I'm not really a fan of tge Castellan's look.
And really hoping for a Baneblade from discounters
Some of these rules sound really promising. I firmly believe that alternating activations is something that 40K desperately needs, and resolving damage at the end of a round after everyone has gone really makes sense to me. I can’t wait to play this edition of Apocalypse, and if it plays well I will have to try and port some of these rules over to 40K.
One of the big pluses that Apoc brings to the table for me is that the units a lot of us don’t use typically have some role to fill in the game, like Terminators or Repentia. I eagerly await making my preorder!
BrotherGecko wrote: I really wish they didn't put bikers and the lord in the box but my wallet is happy about it. Because it make it easy no buy for me.
Patiently wait to see if a Custodes or a Death Guard one pops up in the future.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Buy it from online discounter. Keep the Helverins, flog the Castellan. Break even?
Did you get a price on the Apocalypse box itself, the Skorpius Disintegrator, and the Repulsor Executioner?
Afraid not chap, only the alleged (and I'm inclined to believe accurate) price of the Apoc Boxes.
Chapter Master Valrak on Bolter and Chaisword posted this:
My source has sent me the prices, as always please take with salt, nothing is confirmed until we see it on the GW website:
All apocalypse trays will be 25£/32.5€/40$
All apocalypse detachment will be 100£/130€/170$
Primaris repulsor will be 60£/80€/100$
Admech Skorpius Disintegrator 85£/110€/140$
Apocalypse rulebook is 60£/80€/100$
Apocalypse datasheet cards comming for all "boxed" armies at 15£/20€/25$
Baneblade is staying the same price
However, I’m pretty sure there’s something wrong with the AdMech tank price. £85 would be absolutely ludicrous, for a 2 sprue tank that’s smaller than the repulsor. It’s either just wrong, or you get multiples (but that seems a weird way to do it). So I dunno what that means for the accuracy of the rest of the list.
Edit: His source corrected, Baneblade is £85, AdMech transport is £45.
However, I’m pretty sure there’s something wrong with the AdMech tank price. £85 would be absolutely ludicrous, for a 2 sprue tank that’s smaller than the repulsor. It’s either just wrong, or you get multiples (but that seems a weird way to do it). So I dunno what that means for the accuracy of the rest of the list.
Edit: His source corrected, Baneblade is £85, AdMech transport is £45.
I was going to say that it would make sense for NZD or AUD.
As it stands, it's the price of a Land Raider(?!?!).
However, I’m pretty sure there’s something wrong with the AdMech tank price. £85 would be absolutely ludicrous, for a 2 sprue tank that’s smaller than the repulsor. It’s either just wrong, or you get multiples (but that seems a weird way to do it). So I dunno what that means for the accuracy of the rest of the list.
Edit: His source corrected, Baneblade is £85, AdMech transport is £45.
I was going to say that it would make sense for NZD or AUD.
As it stands, it's the price of a Land Raider(?!?!).
That thing must be heeeeeeeeeeefty.
It’s not overly, it’s just expensive.
Spoiler:
The new Repulsor thing is also £10 more than the Repulsor despite just being a sprue swap. Ah well.
Elbows wrote: Just to clarify, you actually think that normal size marines are still going to get new production models? He's merely pointing out that the classic marine line is no longer expanding and will only be in decline. He's correct. Why be an ass?
I don't know how things look in your reality, but in this one this is about to drop and last time I checked it's not a primaris:
Spoiler:
And that is on top of FW constantly adding 40K compatible oldmarine stuff, and SM heroes range adding yet another completely redundant, same-same squatterine units.
"Correct" you say? Yeah, "just" 3 ranges constantly adding new models, it's less than nothing!
However, I’m pretty sure there’s something wrong with the AdMech tank price. £85 would be absolutely ludicrous, for a 2 sprue tank that’s smaller than the repulsor. It’s either just wrong, or you get multiples (but that seems a weird way to do it). So I dunno what that means for the accuracy of the rest of the list.
Edit: His source corrected, Baneblade is £85, AdMech transport is £45.
I was going to say that it would make sense for NZD or AUD.
As it stands, it's the price of a Land Raider(?!?!).
That thing must be heeeeeeeeeeefty.
It’s not overly, it’s just expensive.
Spoiler:
The new Repulsor thing is also £10 more than the Repulsor despite just being a sprue swap. Ah well.
I wouldn't be shocked if the Repulsor isn't a "sprue swap" but rather an additional sprue like the Knight Warden kit.
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Just Tony wrote: So it is just a pinch above $125 US for the Iyanden box and the Chaos box? Holy hell am I EVER going to buy those...
I am very tempted by that Ork box and will likely get at least one of the Chaos ones too.
I may also go to Ebay for cheap Chaos Bikers when people start unloading them despite the 3rd ed sculpt. They are a pretty good unit with lots of firepower though I probably don't need more then 12.
Edit: Also as someone who has played multiple Apocalypse games in the last year I am very excited for this rule set. Alternating activation will reduce inactive waiting drastically just by itself with no other changes and models dying at the end of the turn will really reduce feel bad moments in what is supposed to be a zany fun format.
techsoldaten wrote: I don't need more bikes or Terminator Lords, but $160 for 3 squads of the new CSM sculpts plus extras may be too hard to pass up.
Very interesting.
Curious. Why? Common Space Marines, Heretical or Loyalist are trash teir units in the current edition of the game. They bring nothing, die to massed S3 fire.
Nothing in that box seems like things I would want (Namely: Obliterators, Havoks, Chosen)
This would have been a great opportunity to actually add another new Chaos kit, I.E. CHOSEN to the game.
techsoldaten wrote: I don't need more bikes or Terminator Lords, but $160 for 3 squads of the new CSM sculpts plus extras may be too hard to pass up.
Very interesting.
Curious. Why? Common Space Marines, Heretical or Loyalist are trash teir units in the current edition of the game. They bring nothing, die to massed S3 fire.
Nothing in that box seems like things I would want (Namely: Obliterators, Havoks, Chosen)
This would have been a great opportunity to actually add another new Chaos kit, I.E. CHOSEN to the game.
They weren’t going to add new units in discount boxes.
Curious. Why? Common Space Marines, Heretical or Loyalist are trash teir units in the current edition of the game. They bring nothing, die to massed S3 fire.
Many of us still buy units because they look cool and we want to paint them. I want to replace my old Chaos marines with the incredibly cooler new models.
Apocalypse has never been about winning or a competitive meta, it is the most beer and pretzels of formats ever made.
Especially in the context of massed battles I am sure you will need at least 30 basic marines.
Wow, pretty disappointed at the admech trasnsport pricing, i understand that with the new prices old rhino price tag are impossible but 60 euro for a transport is pretty hefty. I could buy two of them or the admech bot deal and theres a pretty differences in point and usability.
Dynas wrote: Forgive my ignorance. What are the d12's for? is this Apoc Exclusive?
Yep it's a new ruleset. There's an article due any time now which might shed some light.
RandomRubric wrote: Wow, pretty disappointed at the admech trasnsport pricing, i understand that with the new prices old rhino price tag are impossible but 60 euro for a transport is pretty hefty. I could buy two of them or the admech bot deal and theres a pretty differences in point and usability.
Yeah I was really expecting something around £35 like the GSC Goliath, which is also a two sprue dual-kit transport around the same size. That extra £10 has dampened my enthusiasm somewhat.
Honestly it might be one of those "oh that's expensive" until you see it in the flesh kind of prices. Online a lot of models look about the same sorta size in photos but can differ dramatically once you hold and see them.
The D12 I assume are likely going to be used to allow you to roll 100 attacks at a time or something to that effect and use it as a totalled result rather than having to actually roll 100 dice. A sensible move because beyond a certain point just rolling more dice does not increase the game fun and can actually decrease it.
I'm thinking the Hoverboat will be a couple of big sprues like the plagueburst crawler and that was £40 a couple of years ago (and not even a dual kit)
RandomRubric wrote: Wow, pretty disappointed at the admech trasnsport pricing, i understand that with the new prices old rhino price tag are impossible but 60 euro for a transport is pretty hefty. I could buy two of them or the admech bot deal and theres a pretty differences in point and usability.
Part of the problem is the dual kit nature of it. I expected it to be priced like the DG Plague Burst Crawler, not the GSC Ridgerunner. It's a tank and it gets tank pricing.
From the description, I am guessing that the Apocalypse rules are just upscaled Epic rules. They even talk about large and small blast markers, just like in epic.
Overread wrote: Honestly it might be one of those "oh that's expensive" until you see it in the flesh kind of prices. Online a lot of models look about the same sorta size in photos but can differ dramatically once you hold and see them.
The D12 I assume are likely going to be used to allow you to roll 100 attacks at a time or something to that effect and use it as a totalled result rather than having to actually roll 100 dice. A sensible move because beyond a certain point just rolling more dice does not increase the game fun and can actually decrease it.
As an owner of hands like shovels, I firmly dispute that rolling more dice doesn’t increase the fun
Curious. Why? Common Space Marines, Heretical or Loyalist are trash teir units in the current edition of the game. They bring nothing, die to massed S3 fire.
Many of us still buy units because they look cool and we want to paint them. I want to replace my old Chaos marines with the incredibly cooler new models.
Apocalypse has never been about winning or a competitive meta, it is the most beer and pretzels of formats ever made.
Especially in the context of massed battles I am sure you will need at least 30 basic marines.
And just like everyone else who tells me this, experience has shown me better.
Every format is about WAAC. Apoc, Killteam, AT, 40K, Sigmar, Necromunda, Warcry. They're all going to be WAAC games because the majority of the player base is WAAC.
I respect your love of the models however. I too like the new sculpts a lot. I've got 40 of em myself, but even when I play "friendly" games with them. They just get shot off the table turn one, do nothing and make me very sad.
10,000 year old veterans touched by the dark gods indeed...
Not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, the old epic rules are a better starting point, but on the other I'd just rather have epic and sensibly sized models for this game scale.
Not entirely sold on Detachments as the primary actor. Those can and do vary wildly in size and effectiveness.
Voss wrote: Not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, the old epic rules are a better starting point, but on the other I'd just rather have epic and sensibly sized models for this game scale.
Not entirely sold on Detachments as the primary actor. Those can and do vary wildly in size and effectiveness.
True on both counts but remember Apoc is slightly less about balance and more about "freaking heck that's a lot of models". Even GW realises that the majority of clubs are likely going to have several players combine armies just to make up some detachments. That said if they've got some serious rules then it gives this casual game mode some really good foundations to be just fun! Also if they are re-using the epic rules it could be a casual way to mass test them in the open pending a proper Epic launch.
Because if they re-did epic then the detachment and game balance would improve dramatically simply through players being able to actually buy and field full detachments per person in a sane budget and time scale and space.
Seems for Apoc, it’s mostly borrowing the titles, and each will have other benefits?
I think this is a smarter way to do Apoc. Game speed is one thing, but not dragging 40k itself into ever larger armies is another.
See, as a game continues down the years, peeps collections will inevitably become larger, and we’ll at some point fancy an ‘everything and the kitchen sink’ game. GW’s previous issue, especially with 8th Ed Warhammer, was scaling the game toward those far larger engagements,
That creates at least a perceived minimum points barrier, which can easily put off newcomers, and indeed people starting a new army.
Spinning this off to a similar but separate game? That’s not a bad idea at all.
Of course I’d love Epic proper back, but this will do for me, for now
Proper epic is probably never coming back due to the sheer size of the model range. This most likely is Epic without having to recast a thousand different models into tiny plastic sprues.
Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.
Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?
Looking at the preview, all I can say is "It's about damned time they came out with scaled game rules."
On the other hand, I still have my movement trays for my Chaos Demons from back when WHFB existed. I'm going to need a quota system to limit the number of WHFB jokes during Apocalypse games.
Don Savik wrote: Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.
Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?
I don't get it.
It's not so much about making it "quick and easy" but more meaning that when you're playing a 20K or 40K point game you don't have to book off the whole weekend to finish it. Ergo making it a game mode that can operate within general club time constraints rather than something that only gets rolled out once a year if that.
Don Savik wrote: Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.
Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?
Me.
After 10 years of collecting I'm well past 20,000pts worth of Tyranids, along with several gargantuan creatures. But as a parent with a partner who works most weekends, the odds of getting a full free day to slog through all the minutiae needed for a regular 40k scale are remote.
I'd much rather play nu-Epic with all my existing toys in a usual evening.
Don Savik wrote: Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.
Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?
I don't get it.
From a GW perspective, time is something that’s been a challenge.
Me, I effing LOVE big, massive games. But time is a sod. When you’ve got 12,000+ points a side, using pretty much the base 40k rules? There’s a lot to standing around doing not a lot. And most games I’ve played didn’t get beyond the third turn.
Streamlining the way this promises? Might actually get the full six or so turns in. Which shakes up what is good in Apocalypse, and importantly? What’s practical in Apocalypse.
Add in that damage is applied at the end of the round, rather than player turn? Suddenly, the big expensive Forgeworld Ming I bought, assembled and painted at great cost in Bothan lives? It’s still guaranteed to get at least a shot in should I lose the first turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh man! Inadvertent dogpiling was inadvertent!
Don Savik wrote: Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.
Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?
Me.
After 10 years of collecting I'm well past 20,000pts worth of Tyranids, along with several gargantuan creatures. But as a parent with a partner who works most weekends, the odds of getting a full free day to slog through all the minutiae needed for a regular 40k scale are remote.
I'd much rather play nu-Epic with all my existing toys in a usual evening.
Have we heard hints about how the new Repulser Executioner works before? Because it looks like it may well get the Leman Russ 'fire your main weapon twice if you don't move over half' rule in 40k proper:
Arriving just in time for Apocalypse, this new battle tank offers the Space Marines truly terrifying firepower. Both the heavy laser destroyer and the macro plasma incinerator boast superb stats to match their awesome names… <APOC STAT BLOCK HAPPENS> …and each can fire twice provided the Repulsor Executioner moves less than half of its full allowance. The only question is – which will you pick?
Smart solution to how to upgun the Repulser without just slapping even more, even bigger guns to it.
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solkan wrote:On the other hand, I still have my movement trays for my Chaos Demons from back when WHFB existed. I'm going to need a quota system to limit the number of WHFB jokes during Apocalypse games.
Curious. Why? Common Space Marines, Heretical or Loyalist are trash teir units in the current edition of the game. They bring nothing, die to massed S3 fire.
Many of us still buy units because they look cool and we want to paint them. I want to replace my old Chaos marines with the incredibly cooler new models.
Apocalypse has never been about winning or a competitive meta, it is the most beer and pretzels of formats ever made.
Especially in the context of massed battles I am sure you will need at least 30 basic marines.
And just like everyone else who tells me this, experience has shown me better.
Every format is about WAAC. Apoc, Killteam, AT, 40K, Sigmar, Necromunda, Warcry. They're all going to be WAAC games because the majority of the player base is WAAC.
I respect your love of the models however. I too like the new sculpts a lot. I've got 40 of em myself, but even when I play "friendly" games with them. They just get shot off the table turn one, do nothing and make me very sad.
10,000 year old veterans touched by the dark gods indeed...
Just because players at your meta are all waac doesn't mean they are all waac everywhere. Funny that.
Looks interesting. I think actual army composition will probably determine how much I care to try it. Base rules soon nd good though. Lots of things 40k would like to see added. It’d be funny if people shifted to playing very small games of Apocalypse over 40k.
Kirasu wrote: Proper epic is probably never coming back due to the sheer size of the model range. This most likely is Epic without having to recast a thousand different models into tiny plastic sprues.
On the other hand, with GW's modern tech, they could cram all the models in most factions on just 1 - 2 sprues. Each faction could literally be one box of a few copies of the same sprue for a balanced force.
Don Savik wrote: Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.
Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?
I don't get it.
Maybe you want big battle that actually FEELS like big batle in 40k? 10k 40k game just doesn't give that feel. Instead it's just big mess. You don't get big battles by putting out tons of models with skirmish rules.
Don Savik wrote: Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.
Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?
I don't get it.
Me? Like, I'd like to be scalable. I'd like to maximise the number of actual tactical movement and attack decisions I'm making and minimize the amount of time I have to spend just resolving those actions. Units acting more like single models in 40k makes sense in that respect.
This is also suggestive that victory won’t go to the player with the deepest pockets.
Consider the Warlord Titan. It’s a helluva cash sink. And a friend has one. Lovely kit.
But even in Apocalypse, it’s horrifically overpowered. Unless you’re expecting it, and have something to Hard Counter (Other Titans, Ordinatus etc), it’s damned near impossible to kill. And all the time you’re trying, it’s simply deleting high value targets each and every turn, and multiples thereof.
Even stuff like Knights and the Baneblade Chassis are daunting, unless you’ve an approximate unit to bother it/them.
Here? With Bolt Rifles have a 5/12 chance of doing damage? That’s very, very different. You’ll still be better off with a proper counter, of course you will. But it’s not longer a ‘oh, Ross (thats me, *waves*) has brought his Ordinatus and a Knight escort for it? Guess that flanks buggered, then’.
It’ll still be death by a thousand cuts, but that’s infinitely preferable to ‘there’s literally nothing I can do. What I had, he annihilated turn one, thanks to his unerring (genuinely, it’s a knack!) to seize the initiative.
Giant games of 40k always seems like a good idea, but they are never actually any fun. Because the game doesn't work well outside a pretty narrow size band. But, in order to sell more models, they players need to be able to put more models on the table, and there's only so big the table can get.
With the current scale of the models and the size of armies, this sounds like it will probably be a better version of 40k than 40k currently is. As it just accepts being abstract and bathtubbed instead of trying to be a skirmish ruleset with giant armies that make no sense in the scale of the game.
I've occasionally wondered why people didn't put their Space Marines and whatnot, back when Space Marines were on 25mm bases, on 60mm round bases and play Epic Armageddon. That game is awesome.
Me, I effing LOVE big, massive games. But time is a sod. When you’ve got 12,000+ points a side, using pretty much the base 40k rules? There’s a lot to standing around doing not a lot. And most games I’ve played didn’t get beyond the third turn.
Streamlining the way this promises? Might actually get the full six or so turns in. Which shakes up what is good in Apocalypse, and importantly? What’s practical in Apocalypse.
Add in that damage is applied at the end of the round, rather than player turn? Suddenly, the big expensive Forgeworld Ming I bought, assembled and painted at great cost in Bothan lives? It’s still guaranteed to get at least a shot in should I lose the first turn.
Oh god yes. When I was last able to field both my Hierophants in a game, one of them got immediately flattened on the first shot of the first turn without doing a thing, and the other only hung on into turn 2 thanks to a stratagem that blocked line of sight to it. For my Imperial opponent it was just a case of pointing at and deleting units with D-weapons, there was no actual strategy involved. We only managed to get part way through turn 3 despite the game taking much of the day, and left feeling pretty unsatisfied that my centrepiece units achieved virtually nothing.
In a couple of 'smaller' Apoc games (7E) I used a Harridan, which either completely dominated the board or got killed by the tailored list required to counter it. The 40k rules at the time reaaaally didn't scale well to that sort of thing (hitting gargantuan flyers on 6+ was kinda funny) and to a lesser extent still don't now.
I'm not entirely sure what people are seeing in these rules that look good or (more importantly) fun to play. Maybe the idea of playing a game quickly is the appeal. I honestly don't know. Can someone explain it to me?
Oh indeed. But it’s still better than the 7th Ed days of ‘there is literally bugger all I can do against that’
Particularly memorable was a 7th Ed Apoc game. Both sides had a Reaver. Opponents got first turn, but I managed to seize (I’m really, genuinely, statistically unreasonably good at that), and we pummelled the opposing Reaver into the dirt. First turn. From then on, that entire flank was a game of ‘everyone leg it round the massive terrain piece’, as they attempted to withdraw, and we blasted anything in sight to kingdom come.
Fun in its way, but not terribly satisfying overall.
Would’ve helped if Adam hadn’t turned up late, and promptly deployed literally hundreds of Conscripts in front and around of my Knights to the point I couldn’t bloody go anywhere. The idiot!
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Darsath wrote: I'm not entirely sure what people are seeing in these rules that look good or (more importantly) fun to play. Maybe the idea of playing a game quickly is the appeal. I honestly don't know. Can someone explain it to me?
Darsath wrote: I'm not entirely sure what people are seeing in these rules that look good or (more importantly) fun to play. Maybe the idea of playing a game quickly is the appeal. I honestly don't know. Can someone explain it to me?
Exactly that. A full size game of 40k at 2000 points takes fooooorever and can often be a bit of a slog. The size of a regular game of 40k has continued to go up as scale and power creep continue, so if GW wants games to be massive and let you use all your cool units I'm more than happy for it to be a streamlined experience. The fundamental differences of the game system are also very exciting. Use of D12 for weapons, alternating actions, and resolving damage at end of turn are all things that would make regular 40k better. I'm excited by the possibility of playing 2000 pt Apoc games instead of 2000 pt 40k games depending on how things shake out.
So summarizing what we know or can conject from this pair of previews:
1) Detachments will be named and feel the same but act different, and will be led by the model with the highest LD in the unit (but will only grant command points if they're a character).
What I'd guess from this is that detachments will be more likely closer to the minimum requirements that they are in 40k and they will not be as scalable. I might be wrong here, but I'm guessing if you want troops, you bring a battalion. if you want heavy supports, you bring a spearhead, etc. Maybe with an odd unit slot or two of each type coming along with a battalion (like we can see in the CSM box you can bring a unit of bikers, but you only require 1 HQ Character rather than 2)
The reason i'm guessing they're much more limited in max size from 40k is because they want to maintain a little bit more parity when it comes to activation.
2) USR's at least to some extent are returning. We can see on Guilliman's sword there is a standard special rule (Destroyer) and I'm betting that's how most special rules will be codified rather than the Bespoke Rules from 40k.
3) At least some weapon options will be maintained, but some will most likely go away.
On one hand, the Repulsor preview does show that it has 2 main weapon options, but on the other we can see the Flamecraft stratagem doesn't mention anything about actual "flamer weapons". I'm betting the structure you're likely to see is something like:
Space Marine squad (5 man)
Bolters and Small Arms - attacks user, SAP SAT whatever
Space Marine Squad may take a longrange heavy weapon - Adds a weapon with a better SAT stat which you'd use Heavy Bolter, Lascannon, Missile Launcher for
May take a shortrange anti-tank weapon - Adds a weapon you'd use a Plasma/Grav/Melta for
Rather than having differentiated stats for all the crazy numbers of options available. I'm also betting there'll be a single statline for most characters and the difference between a power weapon/chainsword/powerfist/lightning claw etc will be aesthetic.
If variable squad sizes are still a thing, the small arms being tied to "Attacks User" would seem to indicate that that's what you gain for a larger squad. i'm Curious to see if this will be the case or if you'll just take squads in multiples of the minimum size.
3) Saving and Wounding will probably both be on D12s given that Marines are sitting at SV6+.
4) Dedicated antitank weapons will be actively worse at hurting infantry. Take a look at the Repulsor's laser destroyer (lascannon) weapon option: it's got a SAP stat of 9+. this is likely because the Wounds stat on infantry is reflective of the max squad size, and you will have an Intercessor squad with 2 wounds, rather than a squad of intercessors with 2 wounds each. I'm guessing the Personnel/Tank split is probably dual-purposed to avoid having tanks have the crazy numbers of wounds they have in 40k, and to help differentiate weapon types low ROF weapons in base 40k will have bad SAP values in apoc.
none of this really says anything definitive, but it is interesting to speculate about!
If those are real the cost of the new tanks (and dice) are mindbogglingly bad compared to the detachments.
In the CSM box, its -$10 off the cost of new marine kits and the bikes and lord are free. Yet $45 for dice. Confuse-a-cat, ltd.
Ltd run splash of hype release box kits with built in discounts vs permanent kit costs.
The repulsive seems pretty onbrand with other kits its size. See Gorkanaut etc, all around the 100$ price point.
The little admech thingy is the only headscratcher for me. it looks like Rhino sized. maybe I"m just out of the loop on basic vehicle costs because I had 45$ buggies with the last release I bought vehicles with.
Curious. Why? Common Space Marines, Heretical or Loyalist are trash teir units in the current edition of the game. They bring nothing, die to massed S3 fire.
Many of us still buy units because they look cool and we want to paint them. I want to replace my old Chaos marines with the incredibly cooler new models.
Apocalypse has never been about winning or a competitive meta, it is the most beer and pretzels of formats ever made.
Especially in the context of massed battles I am sure you will need at least 30 basic marines.
And just like everyone else who tells me this, experience has shown me better.
Every format is about WAAC. Apoc, Killteam, AT, 40K, Sigmar, Necromunda, Warcry. They're all going to be WAAC games because the majority of the player base is WAAC.
I respect your love of the models however. I too like the new sculpts a lot. I've got 40 of em myself, but even when I play "friendly" games with them. They just get shot off the table turn one, do nothing and make me very sad.
10,000 year old veterans touched by the dark gods indeed...
Just because players at your meta are all waac doesn't mean they are all waac everywhere. Funny that.
I've traveled and played all over.
I value those who like to play the game as I do. But, it's clear that the majority are competitive players who want to curb stomp your teeth in.
At that price I sure hope that the new Repulsor comes with the weapon sprue of the standard version too so that you can built either and more importantly arm the Executioner with lascannons.
A key point of interest for me: I only have room for a 6x4 at home, so if the game is designed to fit 3k equivalent on a 6x4 and play reasonably I'll be a happy chappy.
So looking at the preview, it's pretty much the rules for epic* but using 28mm instead of 6mm.
With the rules being a blend of space marine (epic 1st ed) and epic last edition.
That sounds fun, and incredibly expensive to get an army. Although it give me an excuse to field my 17 knights...
Whee, blast markers and orders! Epic Armageddon and Warmaster were always the best mass battle games GW made, and this Apocalypse appears to be a direct descendant. 40k is and always was a mutant skirmish game (which is why it’s great at KT scale) so this is a very refreshing change, long may it reign.
Doctor-boom wrote: So looking at the preview, it's pretty much the rules for epic* but using 28mm instead of 6mm.
With the rules being a blend of space marine (epic 1st ed) and epic last edition.
That sounds fun, and incredibly expensive to get an army. Although it give me an excuse to field my 17 knights...
I'm pretty sure if you have 17 Knights, then complaining about the price of an army is off the table Apoc sounds like the perfect way to get them all on the field at once, would be an incredible sight!
Dynas wrote: Forgive my ignorance. What are the d12's for? is this Apoc Exclusive?
From the battle reports I’ve heard, the die you roll is dependent on the type of unit you’re targeting. Like a light unit or some such targeting a heavy unit will roll a d6 while the heavy would roll a d12. Something like that. Also, I heard you get a limited amount of activations, so not all your detachments activate. Lastly, what I heard was that the Apocalypse rules can be easily modified for regular 40k, and that some had already tried it and worked nicely.
If those are real the cost of the new tanks (and dice) are mindbogglingly bad compared to the detachments.
In the CSM box, its -$10 off the cost of new marine kits and the bikes and lord are free. Yet $45 for dice. Confuse-a-cat, ltd.
Knight box is great value, 2 free Amigers, will be picking that up for sure.
Pretty sure the dice is for a distributor box, not retail price. No one is crazy enough to charge $45 for a dice set, right? Same goes for movement trays, $4 each, not only available in packs of 12/16/18 surely.
If those are real the cost of the new tanks (and dice) are mindbogglingly bad compared to the detachments.
In the CSM box, its -$10 off the cost of new marine kits and the bikes and lord are free. Yet $45 for dice. Confuse-a-cat, ltd.
Knight box is great value, 2 free Amigers, will be picking that up for sure.
Pretty sure the dice is for a distributor box, not retail price. No one is crazy enough to charge $45 for a dice set, right? Same goes for movement trays, $4 each, not only available in packs of 12/16/18 surely.
The first article already told us the dice set is 25 D6 and 25 D12. It's definitely $45 for a set. They also show the boxes for the movement trays and they're definitely those amounts.
I think one thing that entices me the most is a completely new way to play with existing models. I'm assuming that some models that are good in 40K will be meh in apoc, having different stats and values, uses and strats. And things that arn't great (a bunch of vehicles, stompas and the like) will be better, if not viable in apoc. It just means that parts of one's collection that sits usually about may have more life or funfactor in apoc. Like the ork box. Looking at it from a 40K mindset it's garbage, kans are the last thing you want atm, but in apoc they could have more use as a "light-heavy" type unit. with more unified rules rather than the mismash of weapons they are right now.
The more we hear about it the more interested I am.
BrookM wrote: It does nicely negate the first turn alpha strike spunk I've had to deal with when we played Apocalypse in the past.
Agreed. Last Apoc game I played we had to make it a war of attrition, with dead stuff coming back on the next turn and victory by points killed. Otherwise several players would have been out of the game turn 1.
Also, something I'm curious about. In the leaked price list there was mention of an XL model case. Reckon it'll be larger than the current doublewide case you can get?
cody.d. wrote: Also, something I'm curious about. In the leaked price list there was mention of an XL model case. Reckon it'll be larger than the current doublewide case you can get?
Price suggests that, yeah. Probably a triple wide version.
Hmm, if it was deeper that may make it difficult to use, having 6 or layers rather than the current 4 So perhaps it will indeed be 3 portions wide rather than it's current 2. Or perhaps they are going to go nuts and go 2 down, 2 across?
I'd like the 25mm trays for my 'nids for regular games. Contemplating picking up the rules, as I still have my 6mm Epic stuff and it'd be great to have "modern" rules I could use for it.
Curious. Why? Common Space Marines, Heretical or Loyalist are trash teir units in the current edition of the game. They bring nothing, die to massed S3 fire.
Many of us still buy units because they look cool and we want to paint them. I want to replace my old Chaos marines with the incredibly cooler new models.
Apocalypse has never been about winning or a competitive meta, it is the most beer and pretzels of formats ever made.
Especially in the context of massed battles I am sure you will need at least 30 basic marines.
And just like everyone else who tells me this, experience has shown me better.
Every format is about WAAC. Apoc, Killteam, AT, 40K, Sigmar, Necromunda, Warcry. They're all going to be WAAC games because the majority of the player base is WAAC.
I respect your love of the models however. I too like the new sculpts a lot. I've got 40 of em myself, but even when I play "friendly" games with them. They just get shot off the table turn one, do nothing and make me very sad.
10,000 year old veterans touched by the dark gods indeed...
Just because players at your meta are all waac doesn't mean they are all waac everywhere. Funny that.
I've traveled and played all over.
I value those who like to play the game as I do. But, it's clear that the majority are competitive players who want to curb stomp your teeth in.
Once again, your anecdotal evidence does not equate to actual reality.
And as to the topic at hand: I, for one, welcome our resurrected Epic overlords.
Dynas wrote: Forgive my ignorance. What are the d12's for? is this Apoc Exclusive?
From the battle reports I’ve heard, the die you roll is dependent on the type of unit you’re targeting. Like a light unit or some such targeting a heavy unit will roll a d6 while the heavy would roll a d12. Something like that. Also, I heard you get a limited amount of activations, so not all your detachments activate. Lastly, what I heard was that the Apocalypse rules can be easily modified for regular 40k, and that some had already tried it and worked nicely.
The preview already explained that the d12 is used for the Wound roll, with each weapon having a target number for wounding infantry and a target number for wounding vehicles, the bolt rifle being 5+/8+ as an example.
Primaris are shown as having a 6+ save. So that is strongly suggestive it’s also a D12 save roll.
Automatically Appended Next Post: We’re also currently unsure how casualties are assigned. We know Bolt Rifles are Small Arms, and place Small Blast Markers.
What we don’t currently know is what those Blast Markers mean, and how Small compares to Large.
However, I’m pretty sure there’s something wrong with the AdMech tank price. £85 would be absolutely ludicrous, for a 2 sprue tank that’s smaller than the repulsor. It’s either just wrong, or you get multiples (but that seems a weird way to do it). So I dunno what that means for the accuracy of the rest of the list.
Edit: His source corrected, Baneblade is £85, AdMech transport is £45.
I was going to say that it would make sense for NZD or AUD.
As it stands, it's the price of a Land Raider(?!?!).
That thing must be heeeeeeeeeeefty.
It’s not overly, it’s just expensive.
Spoiler:
The new Repulsor thing is also £10 more than the Repulsor despite just being a sprue swap. Ah well.
I wouldn't be shocked if the Repulsor isn't a "sprue swap" but rather an additional sprue like the Knight Warden kit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just Tony wrote: So it is just a pinch above $125 US for the Iyanden box and the Chaos box? Holy hell am I EVER going to buy those...
$160 for those boxes.
Price listed on the chart I quoted was 100 pounds sterling, which slammed through six different currency converters came out to a pinch above $125, unless you have info that wasn't posted anywhere else in the thread that I saw.
However, I’m pretty sure there’s something wrong with the AdMech tank price. £85 would be absolutely ludicrous, for a 2 sprue tank that’s smaller than the repulsor. It’s either just wrong, or you get multiples (but that seems a weird way to do it). So I dunno what that means for the accuracy of the rest of the list.
Edit: His source corrected, Baneblade is £85, AdMech transport is £45.
I was going to say that it would make sense for NZD or AUD.
As it stands, it's the price of a Land Raider(?!?!).
That thing must be heeeeeeeeeeefty.
It’s not overly, it’s just expensive.
Spoiler:
The new Repulsor thing is also £10 more than the Repulsor despite just being a sprue swap. Ah well.
I wouldn't be shocked if the Repulsor isn't a "sprue swap" but rather an additional sprue like the Knight Warden kit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just Tony wrote: So it is just a pinch above $125 US for the Iyanden box and the Chaos box? Holy hell am I EVER going to buy those...
$160 for those boxes.
Price listed on the chart I quoted was 100 pounds sterling, which slammed through six different currency converters came out to a pinch above $125, unless you have info that wasn't posted anywhere else in the thread that I saw.
I imagine the 160 is taking into account the useal "tax" GW arbitrarily makes non brits pay
Price listed on the chart I quoted was 100 pounds sterling, which slammed through six different currency converters came out to a pinch above $125, unless you have info that wasn't posted anywhere else in the thread that I saw.
Go look up the GBP price of the Knight Castellan on the UK site, then check the USD price on the USA site...
Price listed on the chart I quoted was 100 pounds sterling, which slammed through six different currency converters came out to a pinch above $125, unless you have info that wasn't posted anywhere else in the thread that I saw.
Find something on the GWUK site that costs £100. Now look at the cost of it on your local site. That's how much the detachment box sets will cost.
See, as a game continues down the years, peeps collections will inevitably become larger, and we’ll at some point fancy an ‘everything and the kitchen sink’ game. GW’s previous issue, especially with 8th Ed Warhammer, was scaling the game toward those far larger engagements,
IIRC that was explicitly stated as the reason for the 2nd - 3rd edition change, and for doing that 3rd edition was excellent. At the end of 2nd, I was playing games with half a dozen Space Marine squads, a bike squadron, a couple of Land Raiders, dreadnoughts and on occasion a Thunderhawk Gunship - and those games took forever to play - mostly due to the rules for vehicles and jump packs.
If we ever see a fifth major 40k version (after 1st, 2nd, 3rd-7th and now 8th editions) it'll probably pull in ideas from Apocalypse and Kill Team.
Tyranid Horde wrote: I can't believe those sets are actually 100 quid or thereabouts. Lord help me on payday...
Has anyone calculated the savings in £ yet?
The RRP price of the boxes ranges from £145 to ~£170. The Space Marine box has the biggest discount, the Knights one the lowest (but still pretty good).
They've appeal to people with existing armies, as a cash effective way to bulk out a typical 40k army (bit of this, hint of that etc) into an Apocalypse Detachment (where one assumes you want lots of everything?).
And they've a clear appeal as army starter boxes. Sure, they don't have a great deal of variety in them, but for the savings, it's hard to say no, and none contain anything particularly undesirable in-game.
I just need to settle on one! Maybe it's time I stopped being difficult with myself, and just cracked on with my Necrons again?
Tyranid Horde wrote: I can't believe those sets are actually 100 quid or thereabouts. Lord help me on payday...
Has anyone calculated the savings in £ yet?
The RRP price of the boxes ranges from £145 to ~£170. The Space Marine box has the biggest discount, the Knights one the lowest (but still pretty good).
Ah cheers, I read further back in the thread and must have missed this.
I don't really have much use for any of the Eldar there, although it would be tempting to pick up more Wraith units...
It's funny that these boxes seem almost designed to not quite fit into any of my existing armies:
I'd have picked up the Marine box if it had more variety, such as Hellblasters.
I may have picked the Eldar box if it wasn't for the near-identical Ghost Warriors set I already bought a few years ago. Still haven't painted the Wraithknight...
The AdMech box would appeal if that had more variety (i.e. Manipulus, Kataphrons or Dragoons). I definitely don't need more Domini or datasmiths.
The Knights would be much more appealing if the Dominus was a dual-kit, as I'm way more interested in the Valiant than Castellan.
I have a million Tyranids already, there's literally nothing useful left to buy until new stuff is out.
Tyranid Horde wrote: I can't believe those sets are actually 100 quid or thereabouts. Lord help me on payday...
Has anyone calculated the savings in £ yet?
The RRP price of the boxes ranges from £145 to ~£170. The Space Marine box has the biggest discount, the Knights one the lowest (but still pretty good).
Ah cheers, I read further back in the thread and must have missed this.
I don't really have much use for any of the Eldar there, although it would be tempting to pick up more Wraith units...
Ditto. I've got 20 wraithguard and 3 wraithlords already, I don't need more. But I do fancy another spiritseer, and the savings are hard to pass up. I mean, if I'm going to buy the spiritseer eventually when he's released separately anyway, the savings on all the wraiths start to look better still!
Well made some calculations. If I can get from UK with free shipping like I was able to get AT battle group(but generally rare for bigger boxes) this is must have. If not I can get cheaper getting wraiths & tomb blades on own separate, dda from GW and skip the useless cryptek compared to buying big box here. What remains to be seen is how much shipping adds if it's not free.
If I can get free shipping at 15%+ off then 2 of necron ones is pretty much given. Made already funny mad max speedy list with dda, 18 tomb blades and 18 wraiths plus misc stuff
Tyranid Horde wrote: I can't believe those sets are actually 100 quid or thereabouts. Lord help me on payday...
Has anyone calculated the savings in £ yet?
The RRP price of the boxes ranges from £145 to ~£170. The Space Marine box has the biggest discount, the Knights one the lowest (but still pretty good).
Ah cheers, I read further back in the thread and must have missed this.
I don't really have much use for any of the Eldar there, although it would be tempting to pick up more Wraith units...
Ditto. I've got 20 wraithguard and 3 wraithlords already, I don't need more. But I do fancy another spiritseer, and the savings are hard to pass up. I mean, if I'm going to buy the spiritseer eventually when he's released separately anyway, the savings on all the wraiths start to look better still!
Stop it! You're only giving me reasons to get this purely for the spiritseer
Actually tempted by the Tyranid MCs, I could always use some big beasties to add to my old army...
Looks like some staff member found an old copy of Epic Armageddon, and got the idea to spruce it up for 28mm scale.
Not a bad idea, a sneaky way to release an updated version of Epic, do it with the already existing 28mm model range. It would cost far too much to do 6mm Epic versions of the current full range. Back when Epic Armageddon was released Marines had very few units (tactical, Scout, Assault, Devastator, Terminator, Bikes, Dreadnought, Rhino, Attack bike, Landspeeder, Landraider, Hunter, Whirlwind, Command, Razorback, and Predator). 16 units on total. Even without Primaris Marines the range has ballooned and it would be too risky for GW to invest in a whole new scale.
So this is a good compromise, and I will admit it is tempting me to dust off my collection. Will be most definitely watching this to see how it develops, bit so far it seems to have a lot of good things going for it, alterative activations, damage applied at the end of a turn, D12, and rules lifted from Epic Armageddon.
tempted by the space marine box myself, I mean I've got ltos of Primaris but I'm tempted to snag em, and hold onto the box until the blood raven index comes out and explain my blood ravens with a new company if GW expands on company markings etc
It’s Epic Armageddon. It is. It Bloody Is. Except with Epic Space Marine’s orders?
I think I may be sold!
When I saw the detachments I was kinda expecting as much. I do love me some Epic 40k myself, but well... I already have it, and Epic minis
I mean... it's very interesting to see this, but, again... 40k minis to play Epic? I am not that much of a masochist.
Yeah. In epic 100+ cm moves wasn't impossible and quite useful at times. Scaled up in 28mm...how you expec to get such long moves when board is filled shoulder to shoulder with models?
It’s Epic Armageddon. It is. It Bloody Is. Except with Epic Space Marine’s orders?
I think I may be sold!
When I saw the detachments I was kinda expecting as much. I do love me some Epic 40k myself, but well... I already have it, and Epic minis
I mean... it's very interesting to see this, but, again... 40k minis to play Epic? I am not that much of a masochist.
Yeah. In epic 100+ cm moves wasn't impossible and quite useful at times. Scaled up in 28mm...how you expec to get such long moves when board is filled shoulder to shoulder with models?
And the fact you’ll need a large board otherwise you’re setting up with a 24” no mans land between your forces.
Still a bit warry of all the cards. Not sure if it’s a deckbuilding thing, or simply adding more options to what you can do. D12s looks like they are done right, giving more range of options, which is what you need when you have grots and titans on the same table.
Bit disapointed in the boxes for the armies I play.
The Eldar one is just two start collecting boxes stuck together, with the farseers and war walkers replaced with the spirit seer and another squad of wraithguard. If you want wraith units, there is already an easy way to get them at a discount.
I was just telling my son that I wasn’t going to pick up a box of intercessors becasue at some point they are going to be bundled in a boxset I want. I could probably use another 10-15. 30 is a bit much. I’ve already got 15 for my Ultras. Adding that many is going to be like filling out the 5th and 6th tac squads for my battle comapny. Looks nice on the shelf, but how often do you need them? The fact that I don’t care for the look of the dread and already have the captain puts the nail into it.
It’s actually a Doctorate in ‘Stating the bleeding obvious’.
Contrast Paints, released immediately before mass battle expansion. That’s no coincidence, that’s a battle station!
This made me snort out loud at work
On topic: I never played epic and I'm far away of owning enough models to even consider playing the new epic...epoc..apic...apocalypse, but still I think it's a great idea to scale upwards and I hope that some ideas will carry over to regular 40k
What I'm liking about this is, so far as we can tell, it's better suited to 'bunch of mates pooling their armies', rather than 'every desperately trying to fend off Davey Deep Pockets, who bought an Apoc specific army of ming'.
So whilst we now have, well, let's call it an excuse, to collect an 'uuuuge army? It's looking less necessary than in previous versions of Apocalypse. Super Heavies and Forgeworld are of course still desirable. But SAT and SAP means we don't necessarily need specific, dedicated counters.
This opinion is of course currently based on very limited info. But the SAP and SAT is encouraging.
BrianDavion wrote:I imagine the 160 is taking into account the useal "tax" GW arbitrarily makes non brits pay
xttz wrote:Go look up the GBP price of the Knight Castellan on the UK site, then check the USD price on the USA site...
AndrewGPaul wrote:Find something on the GWUK site that costs £100. Now look at the cost of it on your local site. That's how much the detachment box sets will cost.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: desperately trying to fend off Davey Deep Pockets, who bought an Apoc specific army of ming
I really hope that the 'free downloadable rules' means that they get reviewed and tweaked from time to time. Not so much on the same level of detail as Chapter Approved balances points, but to clean up any grievous outliers that was virtually every superheavy unit in 6E/7E Apoc. You could bring a Stompa or Hierophant on one side, while the other team could field an Imperial or Eldar titan for less points, with better shields and Destroyer weapons that auto-delete any unit they're pointed at.
My Ordinatus, on paper, was sick. Thanks to how it's shield worked in 7th Ed (and indeed in Heresy), you simply could not one shot it, even with a Strength D weapon. See, first turn? -3 to weapon S, or -3 on the Strength D chart. Then -2, and -1 in subsequent turns.
Given how slow that version of Apoc played, it was virtually guaranteed to survive the game.
From Abaddon's special rule we can infer that saves are taken at the end of the round and usually on a D6 vs large blasts and D12 vs small blasts. It remains to be seen how much stuff you remove for each failed save (I would guess 1 tank or 5 mandudes)
Must admit I was pretty hyped for this but I must admit I'm a little disappointed/worried that some of the plasma weapons look a little too jack of all trades again. Suppose it was bound to happen with the design of primaris.
From Abaddon's special rule we can infer that saves are taken at the end of the round and usually on a D6 vs large blasts and D12 vs small blasts. It remains to be seen how much stuff you remove for each failed save (I would guess 1 tank or 5 mandudes)
Good spot! Managed to miss that last time.
I think each failed save will do a wound for a smol marker - that's because the Primaris unit is listed as 5 dudes, but with two wounds. Large blast may simply make the save that much harder?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Bums.
Reckon I'm going Chaos, lads! Really like the look of the boxed set.
£100 for the detachment boxes? That's me sold on the Space Marine box and very tempted on the Nid and Tau ones as well. Not sure if its a good or bad thing that the monopose Datasmith and yet another Dominus has put me off the AM set though
GoatboyBeta wrote: £100 for the detachment boxes? That's me sold on the Space Marine box and very tempted on the Nid and Tau ones as well. Not sure if its a good or bad thing that the monopose Datasmith and yet another Dominus has put me off the AM set though
£145 to 170 depending on the box, I made this mistake too!
From Abaddon's special rule we can infer that saves are taken at the end of the round and usually on a D6 vs large blasts and D12 vs small blasts. It remains to be seen how much stuff you remove for each failed save (I would guess 1 tank or 5 mandudes)
I'd like to add:
-We know from the fact that CSM can take either boltguns or chainswords that at least "squad-swap" level weapon options will be available, but I think it's a safe bet to say that the whole unit will have to switch from one to the other, and I am still skeptical that single weapon upgrades like a single meltagun special weapon or plasma gun will play much of a role.
-Also squads can be taken in varying sizes since they mention having a full squad of 20. That's interesting, and I wonder what the "units of damage" will be for infantry. Going in, I was kind of assuming that you'd be losing things a squad at a time - your unit of Primaris Marines has two wounds, if you take two wounds you lose the squad of primaris marines, and you make up for the high casualty rate by decreasing the rate of fire of most guns down to just a couple shots.
-Abbadon's abilities confirm that Rerollbubblehammer is not gone. Sadface. I was hoping from the Guilliman preview that they'd be reworking the aura mechanic with so much on the table at once.
-The psychic power card references a penalty for being Critically Damaged. It would seem that either there is some penalty for having enough damage on a unit to kill them at the end of the turn, or this is some kind of reference to a degradation table like we have on vehicles now.
One thing I hope that we don't see in this system is the random number of shots/attacks/strength/etc, that is all too prevalent in 40k. At this scale randomness of that kind should be smoothed out.
I imagine that all attacks do one point of damage unless they have a special rule, aka: Destroyer. Primaris Marines have we know 2 wounds, so I imagine that tanks and other big infantry will have more.
It does seem that blast size determines the dice rolled for any armour save. This is more than likely the game's scaled down version of armour penetration. It is going to be interesting to see how squishy units (Gaunts, Guard, etc) do, I imagine their save is something like 12, so has a 1 in 12 chance against small blasts, but does to big blasts... which for the scale makes sense.
I’m a bit disappointed that between the Tyranid SC and their Armageddon box, they don’t include any termagants/hormagaunts. Same with Eldar not having any guardians in the “base” sets.
And, as a side question - is there no CSM Start Collecting set? If not, that’s just sad.
GoatboyBeta wrote: £100 for the detachment boxes? That's me sold on the Space Marine box and very tempted on the Nid and Tau ones as well. Not sure if its a good or bad thing that the monopose Datasmith and yet another Dominus has put me off the AM set though
£145 to 170 depending on the box, I made this mistake too!
I think the Eldar and Chaos sets are the only 100 quid sets.
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Stormonu wrote: I’m a bit disappointed that between the Tyranid SC and their Armageddon box, they don’t include any termagants/hormagaunts. Same with Eldar not having any guardians in the “base” sets.
And, as a side question - is there no CSM Start Collecting set? If not, that’s just sad.
If you're starting Iyanden, it's an ideal set. I think, however, that these sets are built from a different perspective, and I'm thinking that Troops will wind up not being any sort of basis for an army.
GoatboyBeta wrote: £100 for the detachment boxes? That's me sold on the Space Marine box and very tempted on the Nid and Tau ones as well. Not sure if its a good or bad thing that the monopose Datasmith and yet another Dominus has put me off the AM set though
£145 to 170 depending on the box, I made this mistake too!
I think the Eldar and Chaos sets are the only 100 quid sets.
All the sets are £100. The £145-170 figure is the RRP of the models if you buy them separately.
From Abaddon's special rule we can infer that saves are taken at the end of the round and usually on a D6 vs large blasts and D12 vs small blasts. It remains to be seen how much stuff you remove for each failed save (I would guess 1 tank or 5 mandudes)
I'd like to add:
-We know from the fact that CSM can take either boltguns or chainswords that at least "squad-swap" level weapon options will be available, but I think it's a safe bet to say that the whole unit will have to switch from one to the other, and I am still skeptical that single weapon upgrades like a single meltagun special weapon or plasma gun will play much of a role.
-Also squads can be taken in varying sizes since they mention having a full squad of 20. That's interesting, and I wonder what the "units of damage" will be for infantry. Going in, I was kind of assuming that you'd be losing things a squad at a time - your unit of Primaris Marines has two wounds, if you take two wounds you lose the squad of primaris marines, and you make up for the high casualty rate by decreasing the rate of fire of most guns down to just a couple shots.
A base will probably be equal to 1 movement tray (since that's what they sell you now). Melta guns could simply be another base that has modified stats in some ways.
How do you know those units won’t be good in apocalypse?
If we're parsing what boxes contain undesirable units or not I'm assuming we're doing so in a context in which we can actually tell whether the units are good or not.
How do you know those units won’t be good in apocalypse?
If we're parsing what boxes contain undesirable units or not I'm assuming we're doing so in a context in which we can actually tell whether the units are good or not.
I truely hope there will be at some point datasheets for FW armies,
especially Renegades & Heretics, and for the FW artillery stuff like the
griffon, colossus etc.
We know titans will be a thing, but I hope most of the FW stuff will make it
eventually.
How do you know those units won’t be good in apocalypse?
If we're parsing what boxes contain undesirable units or not I'm assuming we're doing so in a context in which we can actually tell whether the units are good or not.
I think that was his point
And I think most are looking in contex of main game rather than the side game which will be up in various levels of popularity for some time.
He shows off 8-10 Knights, etc...and then says he needs to grab a bunch more to flesh out the army for Apocalypse. Of course he gets a discount if not damn-near-free...but the idea of "yeah just need to pick up another handful of $140 kits..." shows where this hobby is and how obsessed some people are with throwing cash at something like Apocalypse.
That's just insanity. I'll be more than happy to watch from the sidelines though!
Elbows wrote: The Duncan Knight video made me laugh.
He shows off 8-10 Knights, etc...and then says he needs to grab a bunch more to flesh out the army for Apocalypse. Of course he gets a discount if not damn-near-free...but the idea of "yeah just need to pick up another handful of $140 kits..." shows where this hobby is and how obsessed some people are with throwing cash at something like Apocalypse.
That's just insanity. I'll be more than happy to watch from the sidelines though!
It's all relative, what might take someone 6mo to save for might take someone else 90min. It sure would be nice if I could just drop another $500 on units for apoc but I'm limited to a single box.
Elbows wrote: The Duncan Knight video made me laugh.
He shows off 8-10 Knights, etc...and then says he needs to grab a bunch more to flesh out the army for Apocalypse. Of course he gets a discount if not damn-near-free...but the idea of "yeah just need to pick up another handful of $140 kits..." shows where this hobby is and how obsessed some people are with throwing cash at something like Apocalypse.
That's just insanity. I'll be more than happy to watch from the sidelines though!
I imagine that many people with large collections build them up over time. I spend around £50 per month on my hobby, which mean if I was so inclined, I could easily buy 6 knights over the course of a year. About the pace at which I could paint them.
... now that I think about it, that’s actually quite an appealing idea.
Elbows wrote: The Duncan Knight video made me laugh.
He shows off 8-10 Knights, etc...and then says he needs to grab a bunch more to flesh out the army for Apocalypse. Of course he gets a discount if not damn-near-free...but the idea of "yeah just need to pick up another handful of $140 kits..." shows where this hobby is and how obsessed some people are with throwing cash at something like Apocalypse.
That's just insanity. I'll be more than happy to watch from the sidelines though!
I imagine that many people with large collections build them up over time. I spend around £50 per month on my hobby, which mean if I was so inclined, I could easily buy 6 knights over the course of a year. About the pace at which I could paint them.
... now that I think about it, that’s actually quite an appealing idea.
And GW Marketing's Apocalypse solution to sales comes to fruition.
Same with Conquest. You mean after 80 weeks, I can have two complete armies I've never collected before at a discount compared to GW retail prices?
I don't really need anymore Leman Russ tanks but the Imperial Guard box along with a Chimera, Command Squad and Heavy Weapon Squad I can convert to Ventrillians suddenly becomes far too attractive a prospect.
Elbows wrote: The Duncan Knight video made me laugh.
He shows off 8-10 Knights, etc...and then says he needs to grab a bunch more to flesh out the army for Apocalypse. Of course he gets a discount if not damn-near-free...but the idea of "yeah just need to pick up another handful of $140 kits..." shows where this hobby is and how obsessed some people are with throwing cash at something like Apocalypse.
That's just insanity. I'll be more than happy to watch from the sidelines though!
I imagine that many people with large collections build them up over time. I spend around £50 per month on my hobby, which mean if I was so inclined, I could easily buy 6 knights over the course of a year. About the pace at which I could paint them.
... now that I think about it, that’s actually quite an appealing idea.
Yep. My 12k orks(about 33% of points of 10 knights...) didn't come alive by one big purchase but adding units here and there. Latest additions being 3 scrapjets and 3 shockjumps for about 600+ pts of orkyness.
And it's matter of priorities. Some people do cheaper holidays so can spend money on miniatures. I could afford warlord titan(the 40k scale) if I wanted but prefer instead long holiday in Japan. Still can afford building up 40k armies piece by piece. And knights for example have grown in size with renegade boxes in large.
There's people who have warlord titans! 10 knights is much more sensible in terms of gaming and I think cheaper as well.
, you missed the point as usual. 
