It occurs to me that scatter scenery like that often looks 'wrong' because of the height. Maybe it'd be better to put the vehicles onto bases the same height as the models too?
^Yet another reason I prefer 1.5mm clear acrylics over the standard ~3mm bases. Though... I'm not sure if 55/60mm rounds and 50x25mm oval bike bases are common yet.
And that stuff looks great I know that these are their SF range, but seeing those makes me glad I ordered all six Mars Attacks AW resin cars!
I'm disappointed in the lack of Haqqislam shown. I was hoping for a preview of some Caliphate or Khanate stuff, but all we got was a concept shot of the new Kum bike (which we've already seen models of) and concepts for the new Ghazi Mutti'wah (which, to be fair, look pretty cool). Would have been nice to see some new biker unit or redesigned Khawarijs.
Can't wait for new rules though. This news has thoroughly hyped me up for Infinity again. I was working on some Tyranids as well as some Infinity models over the weekend, but now my bugs might go on hold again to get some more Infinity models finished.
This may have been even a huger news thing than GenCon's presentation.... Will 3rd ed be available first there before it is in general release? Because if so, *yoink* I'll get a friend of mine who is going to snag me a copy hot off the presses. I hope it will contain updated artwork and background too.
Interesting top 10. Have to admit the custodiers are my favorite nomad minis. But they are a pain to play against, (grrr. lousy ODD...) unless you bring a fiday
Interesting top 10. Have to admit the custodiers are my favorite nomad minis. But they are a pain to play against, (grrr. lousy ODD...) unless you bring a fiday
Maybe its just the work firewall blocking things, but of what top 10 do you speak?
Interesting top 10. Have to admit the custodiers are my favorite nomad minis. But they are a pain to play against, (grrr. lousy ODD...) unless you bring a fiday
Maybe its just the work firewall blocking things, but of what top 10 do you speak?
Corvus Belli showed their annual "Top 10 Best Selling models".
Here's the list:
1) Reverend Custodiers(Marker)
2)Achilles
3)Oniwaban Shinobu Kitsune
4)Chandra Spec-Ops
5)Ajax the Great
6)Ikadron Batroids
7)Knight of the Holy Sepulchre
8)Wildcats(Spitfire)
9)Intel Spec-Ops
10)Tankhunter(Autocannon)
I'm so happy that the catgirl Daktari isn't on that list.
I guess all those sexually deviant Nomads players already own twelve.
I'm surprised to see the tankhunter on there. I actually love the model myself considering it's the biggest infantry-held weapon in the game, but it's getting a redesign soon. Why redesign something that sells so well?
Absolutionis wrote: I'm so happy that the catgirl Daktari isn't on that list.
I guess all those sexually deviant Nomads players already own twelve.
What is rather interesting is this is the first year, as far as I'm aware, where there have not been any really "pin-uppy" models on the list. No Wildcat HRL on the list but the Wildcat Spitfire is on there validates so many of my concerns regarding those two models.
I'm surprised to see the tankhunter on there. I actually love the model myself considering it's the biggest infantry-held weapon in the game, but it's getting a redesign soon. Why redesign something that sells so well?
Probably because it's such an old model and it looks out of place in the range as it stands now.
The catgirl Daktari is the all time best seller, according to Koni (CB head of production). This list is just for 2014 sales. So you would expect it to be full of recent releases... and a tankhunter?!? I suppose lot of new Ariadna players then. :S
I meant to say deepen the background, not to imply advance it. My bad.
Hmm. Not a single Haqq unit or a Morat on that list. I also happen to own only a single figure in there, the Chandra.
I'm a little disappointed that the Squalo doesn't look so much like a Masamune Shirow design anymore. I'll have to pick up the current one sometime soon. I'm thinking it needs some Police or ESWAT markings though.
The Kazak Spetznas coming out have 2 variants, Paratrooper and Ambusher.
The Paratrooper is armed with a boarding shotgun and has a HALO rig (presumably for Air deployment) and sidearm.
The Ambusher has NVGs and shows a Sniper rifle and regular rifle on his image plate.
The Tohaa Ambusher is called the Nikaul, and has a Viral Sniper Rifle and Mines.
The Kazak Spetznas coming out have 2 variants, Paratrooper and Ambusher.
The Paratrooper is armed with a boarding shotgun and has a HALO rig (presumably for Air deployment) and sidearm.
Well, he is labeled "Paratrooper"...
Also has a Rifle option.
The Ambusher has NVGs and shows a Sniper rifle and regular rifle on his image plate.
Ambusher has Sniper Rifle and HMG, not a regular rifle.
The Tohaa Ambusher is called the Nikaul, and has a Viral Sniper Rifle and Mines.
Well technically it's called "Nikaul Ambush Unit". That is a Viral Sniper Rifle and Mines...but the most important part is that he has what looks like a MSV or X Visor because there is what amounts to a "symbiote mask" attached to the Tohaa proper.
He also has Symbiote Armor.
The Kazak Spetznas coming out have 2 variants, Paratrooper and Ambusher.
The Paratrooper is armed with a boarding shotgun and has a HALO rig (presumably for Air deployment) and sidearm.
Well, he is labeled "Paratrooper"...
Also has a Rifle option.
The Ambusher has NVGs and shows a Sniper rifle and regular rifle on his image plate.
Ambusher has Sniper Rifle and HMG, not a regular rifle.
The Tohaa Ambusher is called the Nikaul, and has a Viral Sniper Rifle and Mines.
Well technically it's called "Nikaul Ambush Unit". That is a Viral Sniper Rifle and Mines...but the most important part is that he has what looks like a MSV or X Visor because there is what amounts to a "symbiote mask" attached to the Tohaa proper.
He also has Symbiote Armor.
That's what I get for trying to post with no coffee! Thanks for correcting my flubs on those.
To be honest, if CB gave the Kum troops a single profile with the "Booty" special rule, that would both be flavorful to the Kum Motorized Troops, and painfully amusing if attributed to the otherwise unarmed Butt-Girl.
Maybe she'll be like the Hunzakut girl, whose concept art has been around forever, but still... I like the Hunzakut with LGL better than the sniper profile, so I want the model... and I suck at conversions. (too lazy to do a good job of them)
Anyway, Kum girl is not unarmed. She has a pistol and knife. Also the mini is now discontinued. So the new one, if we see it, will be June at the earliest, given that the May releases are known.
Maybe she'll be like the Hunzakut girl, whose concept art has been around forever, but still... I like the Hunzakut with LGL better than the sniper profile, so I want the model... and I suck at conversions. (too lazy to do a good job of them)
Anyway, Kum girl is not unarmed. She has a pistol and knife. Also discontinued. So the new one, if we see it will be June at the earliest, given that the May releases are known.
Someone is not familiar with the rhymes of Sir Mixalot I see.
As the final Off Topic part of this particular in thread...thread, that's the name of one of the girls talking at the very beginning of "Baby Got Back"!
Red Harvest wrote: Well, I do sort of like big butts... but otherwise no, can't say I'm familiar with his, erm, œuvre.
With the most sincere apologies to Alph, this kind of ignorance cannot go unremedied!
Spoiler:
To make this... okay, maybe not relevant, but to highlight something important: Baby got Back is one of the rare instances where a song achieved both great popularity and social relevance (you'll note the last line by "Becky's friend" is "She looks so... black!"). It represents an important and public rebuke to the notion (which, sadly, is still quite prevalent in many circles) that the ideal female form, the only body type that is commercially viable in modeling/singing/movies is the runway model. There is a great line in the linked article about how artists were afraid of casting the women they actually liked out of fear of not appealing to "mainstream America". I think the enduring popularity of the song shows that fear is largely, though not completely, a creation of industry insularity.
Which, now that I think about it, is actually relevant here: while the Kum girl may not be as callipygian as Sir Lot would prefer, it is a welcome injection of a different aesthetic. Indeed, Infinity is actually pretty good on this, with many different offerings ranging from the Dactari and the Vixen to the O-Yori pilot.
There's plenty of Haqqislam models that got back, too. The Panzerfaust Ghulam, the Maghariba Guard pilot, the female Fiday, the Djanbazan hacker... It's sort of a Haqqislam tradition that female models won't have skimpy clothes, but definitely got dat ass.
Not to usurp Alpharius's authoritah, but this can stop now, please. There is a thread on the official forums for it, a notorious thread. Good luck reading through it all. I know I didn't. It follows.
CB makes the pop culture references all the time. Perhaps the new Kum biker will be a Becky reference. We will see soon enough. Given that both Kum blisters are discontinued-- and immediately too, thing which I have not seen before. normally there is a few month's grace period-- I suspect very soon, like June. But will it be 'Becky' and Izzat Beg? or will he get his own blister/box, and we get 4 distinct Kum bikers . Perhaps even 2 'Beckys' (like on the Roseanne show).
And BoW needs to get off their and get some info out about N3, as all the cool kids are calling it these days.
If Kum riders are meant to be the signature of the Khanate sectorial, I'd be shocked to see a box with Izzat and a normal rider rather than two more normal riders and a separate Izzat. Giving them only 3 models for their signature unit seems pretty odd.
Also, the sexual objectification thread is pretty dire.
Red Harvest wrote: The catgirl Daktari is the all time best seller, according to Koni (CB head of production). This list is just for 2014 sales. So you would expect it to be full of recent releases... and a tankhunter?!? I suppose lot of new Ariadna players then. :S
I meant to say deepen the background, not to imply advance it. My bad.
I assumed that the tacit implication of that top-10 is the Daktari owns position 'zero' and is always just there in first place, no need to mention it
Not surprised at all that the tankhunter is in the list, it's a great looking miniatures and I don't think I've ever known an Ariadne player who doesn't have it!
In that sense there will be a fair bit of pressure on the new sculpt and to make it a good one.
Red Harvest wrote: Not to usurp Alpharius's authoritah, but this can stop now, please. There is a thread on the official forums for it, a notorious thread. Good luck reading through it all. I know I didn't. It follows.
-Loki- wrote: If Kum riders are meant to be the signature of the Khanate sectorial, I'd be shocked to see a box with Izzat and a normal rider rather than two more normal riders and a separate Izzat. Giving them only 3 models for their signature unit seems pretty odd.
Also, the sexual objectification thread is pretty dire.
We finally agree on something
I'm wondering what changes there will be to bikes in N3, since that may have an effect on how they are packaged. I was thinking of the way CB packaged Asuka with a hacker. I'm not sure CB would package Izzat in his own box. Hmm, 5 Kum and Izzat? That would look cool on a table.
@Pacific: Having played against the autocannon tankhunter, I can tell you, in detail, why so many Ariadna player's have them I hope the resculpts are awesome.
I found it odd that all the May releases were announced already. I wonder what that means for the June releases.
Red Harvest wrote: Not to usurp Alpharius's authoritah, but this can stop now, please. There is a thread on the official forums for it, a notorious thread. Good luck reading through it all. I know I didn't. It follows.
Red Harvest wrote: Not to usurp Alpharius's authoritah, but this can stop now, please. There is a thread on the official forums for it, a notorious thread. Good luck reading through it all. I know I didn't. It follows.
That and Antenocitis Workshop has been given free reign to design official Infinity vehicles, be they civilian or military, land, sea or air. While they will be for scenery only (the game is not moving past skirmish warfare), some may be used in scenarios if needed.
Same here, still waiting. One of the guys who attended to the seminar recorded it and uploaded it in parts, but the last part gets cut when Bostria is talking about the 3rd ed.
As far as I undestood, the fluff is very similar to the 2nd ed book, and the rules are thought to be improved (obviously) and also to keep Human Sphere and Campaign Paradiso being compatible. So I'm guessing no fireteam rules, for example.
Glad I haven't gotten any books yet and still using online resources. Still a rather new player at this game, only got a few games in so far but wow this upcoming year looks great. If the 3rd Edition is pulled off well then they will be getting my solid loyalty for a good while.
Yes, a very annoying cut-off. Bostria had been speaking about N3 for about 4 minutes and *poof* Anyway, he referred to it as a 'resculpt' of the BRB.
The audio is not bad, although Bostria does mumble a bit at times... Several of the audience members were clearer, but I suppose because they were closer to the recording microphone. I hope the BoW presentation had better images. Grainy images from a projector, ugh.
Also, I wonder if they are going to change Doctors a bit. Maybe making them not kill your dudes when they fail? I mean, spending orders to move your doctor to a wounded model, risking the doc or a remote, only to kill your own dude and save the enemy the trouble is a harsh deal, and helps with the "who cares about support, I'll just bring more dakka" mindset I've seen.
It's especially aggravating when you do it to a NI model and put it out of comission when it was up and fighting!
- Silhouette templates, like in Warmachine... ok, no problem with that.
- Aleph and Tohaa will have new troops but wont appear in the book "because storytelling", PDF and Army builder will include them... well... I can understand that.
- New stuff and new re-sculpts, fine, I cna trust CB about this.
- New, better translation.... I just hope they allow some English-American people do that work. It is obvious they need all the help they can find.
- No fluff advance? that is dissapointing.
Alpharius wrote: Human Sphere and Campaign Paradiso to not be invalidated by the new rulebook - awesome!
Acheron Falls to come out...later... 2015, right?
Seems so. But I think this new book, with new units and even new artwork too, will keep us busy 'til then. It seems right to tidy things up now. A good call by CB.
I like that they won't advance the fluff on the new book. Save that room for rules, image examples, fleshing out factions and concepts, and good indexes and glossaries.
The supplements do fine for keeping the narrative in motion. Thats where you actually have room to spare, since new rules in other books don't usually take that much space. You could fit all the new rules that came in Campaign: Paradiso in what, 30-40 pages?
I was hoping they'd take this chance to consolidate all rules, weapons, profiles and lists into one book to prevent hopping between multiple books. It's a shame they're not - I like using the books rather than printouts, but it's just cumbersome doing it with multiple books.
I understand them not wanting to invalidate other books but that seems like a basic and sensible thing to add to the core rules from an outsider's perspective.
Yeah, new editions should be around to consolidate rules in to one source, update them with the most recent errata, clarify them with the most recent FAQ and give folks a single source for all their needs.
I mean, link teams, the scenario rules, and SpecOps aren't changing then I can see why HS and Paradiso wouldn't be invalid per se. But that shouldn't mean that all of those rules aren't contained in the new core. I desperately hope that is what they mean.
If the core book will still have all the rules (including stuff like link teams and the like) while not overwriting HS or Paradiso (not counting any recent FAQ/Errata work on those books), then that is fine. If it will not include them and still force new players to reference 2-3 rulebooks to get all of their rules then that will be a bit of a cluster .
So I really hope that the comment is just so folks don't write them angry letters about just having bought HS/Paradiso and how dare they release a new edition after 6 years. Hell, part of me is also kind of hoping that all they mean is the fluff is still good so that tweaks are open to all corners of the system.
I mean, not including the scenario system? I can see that. But I think link teams (and its Aleph, Tohaa and Haris-based variants) should definitely be in the core book along with rules for playing sectorials. Even if Aleph and Tohaa need to be stuck in a PDF update instead of in the core, one shouldn't need to crack open rules from Human Sphere or Paradiso to play them if they have the core book.
I mean, if all the books are needed by the time Acheron Falls rolls out... yeah, things will still be a mess, even if the core is more solid.
Have to say I'm really looking forward to 3rd edition...............just don't feel any need to bang on about it until it arrives and I can get playing
Not seeing the new sectorials yet, and not having an advance in fluff is a bit of a bummer, but since a lot of people are complaining about rules, I understand why they want the improve the ruleset before adding more complications. Personally I have played jusy a few games, I'm not confident enough with the rules to make a sensible critic of what works and what's broken.
Also yes, having all the rules in one book is so much useful, so it would be nice. Maybe HS and C aren't invalidated just fluff-wise?
Man I want the Ariadnean sectorials so bad... :S luckily we are going to be having new units (yay Spetsnatz!), despite not having an actual list. That works for me.
Oh, BTW, the Spanish edition of Ravage, that's actually news for everyone. Currently there isn't a Spanish edition of the magazine. The news arrived yesterday or two days ago, the first issue will be availabe on July or August, and that's the issue that will include the basic rules of N3. I ignore wether this will be some kind of QSR or maybe something a bit more complete, and wether they will be published in French and English editions or not.
warboss wrote: I understand them not wanting to invalidate other books but that seems like a basic and sensible thing to add to the core rules from an outsider's perspective.
Agreed, hopefully that is the case!
Really looking forward to a new edition, the local group seems a little exasperated with the clarity of the rules as-is, so the timing seems perfect for us.
Gotta say I was a bit underwhelmed too. New rules including clarifications and collecting all the rules in a single book is definitely welcome. I will be pre-ordering as soon as available.
But, I was expecting something "new" that would alter the game, even a little. Indoor rules and scenarios. Vehicle rules (as long as they are within reason--no dropships, but perhaps a light ground vehicle). The introduction of O-12 as a faction. Linkable TAG's. Something. (Just so we're clear, I am not advocating these changes, just what are possibilities I thought might happen.)
Still, Infinity is my favorite miniatures game on the market. CB has done well with the game and the market. So I'll follow along.
I think it's unfair to judge the book that isn't out yet on what he's said so far.
From what I can tell it is going to:
1)Introduce some interesting new rules for us.
2)Clean up some previous Rules/Language snafus.
3)Add some cool new units to the base armies. (Did you SEE those Spetznaz?!)
I don't want to sound like one of those 'They Can Do No Wrong' types, but from what I heard in that video I feel like they 'get it' really well.
The Silhouette thing was a big deal to me, simply because of listening to the passion he had when he talked about people being able to have fun and expressing themselves through their models... how they shouldn't be punished for adding height or dynamic posing.
As fun and exciting as the rules are, they are a miniature company, and they really focus on making good stuff that we wanna buy.
...okay fine. I got some spare room on the bandwagon, anybody else want on?
Chairman Aeon wrote: Seems this isn't so much 3rd Edition as Revised 2nd Edition.
Bit disappointed.
Iain.
I don't think change for the sake of change is necessarily the best way to go about it.
CB spent 4 years balancing the core mechanics of the game before the 1st edition rulebook was even released. They put a great deal of time and effort into it. It might be that the editions from the supplement books have knocked this a little bit (I know some posters have commented to that effect).
Personally, having seen other companies do things differently (and release things just for the sake of change, sometimes even reversing to previously used rules, to cause another round of miniature purchases because your current lot suddenly don't work) I must say I prefer the CB way of doing things!
Yeah, the game doesn't need a huge shake up. And it is refreshing when a new edition is an incremental change rather than a massive-scale rewrite. There will definitely be some rebalancing going on (please, sweet jebus let the Crane and Pheasant get some kind edit... I want to stop using them as proxies), changes to fundamental bits like LoL and Retreat (which is actually a big deal) and hopefully much better translation and clarification. Acheron Falls can bring the next big shakeups (just like Human Sphere did when it dropped). N3 should be about resetting the baseline and consolidation/clarification. That is the purpose of a new edition (at least in my mind, and as rarely as that is actually the case in the gaming world).
That's really all Infinity needs at the mo'. It needs another pass for balance since there are some very identifiable areas where things are clearly off kilter and not working as intended, the rules need to be clearer and translated better, and everything needs to get consolidated back in to one book.
The last bit is the only thing I'm worried about. Since Human Sphere and Paradiso contain their fair share of massive rules additions (like sectorials and links) as well as a lot of little errata (Infiltration becoming a levelled skill, changes in how dual-wielding ranged weapons works, faction-specific link rules), I feel those should be in the core, but I fear some (like link teams) may not be. That is currently my only reservation about the new edition.
The only reason I want to crack open HS and Paradiso after the new edition drops is to read the background.
I agree that a 're-tightening' of the rules is great. Some slight balance issues, like weapon costs and profiles, could be adjusted. Mostly just to clarify the grey areas and FAQs of the current system.
I would really, really prefer that a new rulebook contain ALL the game rules. I mean a full index of weapon and units special rules/types, full rules including linked teams and any rules for objectives that are common to most or all missions (like which models are normally 'specialists' etc)
CB seem to try and hold unit descriptions and special rules for the supplements to fit into their narrative. I see that as more of an extra, clear and accessible rules are paramount. Keep the supplements for fluff and special mission/campaign stuff.
Again, I'm not necessarily advocating CB makes big changes to the game. I also feel a single book that contains all the rules would be very beneficial, even at the loss of some fluff (in that single book). But, neither of those are the point of the disappoint.
The disappoint comes from the build-up leading to this info. Now, maybe its not fair that many expected something different from CB at this release, but I certainly feel like that was the prevailing sentiment going into this weekend.
I'm happy to hear about the consolidated and clarified rules, but had expected something new instead of a rewritten set of rules.
@I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly Can I just say that your name is probably the third best I've seen? That is just excellent.
I agree on the rules squish. It'd be nice to have everything in one book. But I do understand their want to make the other books non-obsolescent.
And hey, all the important stuff is free online anyway. Who else does that! It is nice to be able to print out a list of all your army's special quirks and stuff to have with you when you're playing.
Pacific wrote: Personally, having seen other companies do things differently (and release things just for the sake of change, sometimes even reversing to previously used rules, to cause another round of miniature purchases because your current lot suddenly don't work) I must say I prefer the CB way of doing things!
AMEN!
And on a side note:
I trust CB to give us a good product as usual!
And while I feel the worry about not having everything in one place, I do understand and even support CB's motive of not making the other books obsolete, that some of us bought not too long ago.
If you feel the need to carry say the fire team rules with you (personally doing well with the wiki in those cases) you can easily bring your N3 book plus the printed HS rules, that you get for free anyway.
So pretty much what Cutthroat said while I was typing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: @I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly Can I just say that your name is probably the third best I've seen? That is just excellent.
drazz wrote: Gotta say I was a bit underwhelmed too. New rules including clarifications and collecting all the rules in a single book is definitely welcome. I will be pre-ordering as soon as available.
Part of the problem is that it isn't collecting all the rules in a single book. According to the BOW video (in English), you'll still need Paradiso and Human Sphere books to access the rules in those books (obviously excluding printing out pages from their free download of course which has apparently always been an option.. not sure.. don't play yet).
The last bit is the only thing I'm worried about. Since Human Sphere and Paradiso contain their fair share of massive rules additions (like sectorials and links) as well as a lot of little errata (Infiltration becoming a levelled skill, changes in how dual-wielding ranged weapons works, faction-specific link rules), I feel those should be in the core, but I fear some (like link teams) may not be. That is currently my only reservation about the new edition.
The only reason I want to crack open HS and Paradiso after the new edition drops is to read the background.
I don't mind the sectorial stuff necessarily being in another book but things that should be core rules and that it seems most people use every game like link teams SHOULD be in the core book. As a new player, I don't want to be told that my brand spanking new book fresh from the printer doesn't include a rule that everyone says is pretty much mandatory for alot of figs. It might be a good idea for one of the fine folks here who is also on the official forums to just bluntly ask that question about the fire teams and whatever other effectively "core" rules that came out post 2nd edition will be included in the 3rd edition book. Army lists variants are one thing and fine IMO to stay in a supplement (although it would be nice if they didn't but it is acceptable if they do)... but basic rules should only be in one place right after an edition swap.
I agree... I have all the books but the rules are intimidating already (and not very clear) so it would be great to have ALL the core game rules consolidated into one book.
drazz wrote: Gotta say I was a bit underwhelmed too. New rules including clarifications and collecting all the rules in a single book is definitely welcome. I will be pre-ordering as soon as available.
Part of the problem is that it isn't collecting all the rules in a single book. According to the BOW video (in English), you'll still need Paradiso and Human Sphere books to access the rules in those books (obviously excluding printing out pages from their free download of course which has apparently always been an option.. not sure.. don't play yet).
Right, because the "Third Edition" book is not containing Sectorials or Tohaa...which are the only reason why you would need the Fireteam rules as part of the book.
The last bit is the only thing I'm worried about. Since Human Sphere and Paradiso contain their fair share of massive rules additions (like sectorials and links) as well as a lot of little errata (Infiltration becoming a levelled skill, changes in how dual-wielding ranged weapons works, faction-specific link rules), I feel those should be in the core, but I fear some (like link teams) may not be. That is currently my only reservation about the new edition.
The only reason I want to crack open HS and Paradiso after the new edition drops is to read the background.
I don't mind the sectorial stuff necessarily being in another book but things that should be core rules and that it seems most people use every game like link teams SHOULD be in the core book. As a new player, I don't want to be told that my brand spanking new book fresh from the printer doesn't include a rule that everyone says is pretty much mandatory for alot of figs. It might be a good idea for one of the fine folks here who is also on the official forums to just bluntly ask that question about the fire teams and whatever other effectively "core" rules that came out post 2nd edition will be included in the 3rd edition book. Army lists variants are one thing and fine IMO to stay in a supplement (although it would be nice if they didn't but it is acceptable if they do)... but basic rules should only be in one place right after an edition swap.
But by that same vein, if you were a new player and had bought Campaign Paradiso or Human Sphere(say if you were wanting to play Tohaa or ALEPH of either flavor) you would have your book invalidated by 3rd edition if they changed something up.
By keeping Link Teams, Sectorials, and SpecOps effectively "in their own books" it lets CB update those books or rules separate to the main rules.
I think the thing is that Fireteams and those later rules aren't 'core' rules. They are considered advanced rules not necessary for gameplay.
Yet at the same time, you can lament the lack of everything being in one place, but it is in one place, the internet, for free. So that is cool.
And not one of you can say you don't have the internet.
Aside though, I also felt that the rules were rather cumbersome, and I had the first edition rulebook that was supercartoony and had WAY worse translations than the 2nd Edition. But just musclin' through it and getting some games in was the best way to learn. You just gotta take into account those first few games are going to last a lot longer than normal as you look up eeeeeeverything.
Actually that's a good point CC - wonder if this one will have a 'true' English language version, re-written by someone with English as their first language?
Not saying 2nd edition/Paradiso aren't good, but there are bits when you can tell it was written by someone who doesn't have English as a first language, where it doesn't flow as well as it might. Although, there are words used in places that I'm sure 90% of the English-speaking world don't know
Pacific wrote: Actually that's a good point CC - wonder if this one will have a 'true' English language version, re-written by someone with English as their first language?
Not saying 2nd edition/Paradiso aren't good, but there are bits when you can tell it was written by someone who doesn't have English as a first language, where it doesn't flow as well as it might. Although, there are words used in places that I'm sure 90% of the English-speaking world don't know
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: @I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly Can I just say that your name is probably the third best I've seen? That is just excellent.
Now I'm curious for No.1 and 2.
I will guess:
- Chemical Cutthroat
- UNCLEBADTOUCH
?
Oh comeon. I'm not that vain.
I don't know if the other two are appropro to Dakka. So I shall make ya'll suffer in silence.
Also @Kan - I'm not saying you have the internet on you at all times, but I'm saying we can look up the rules, print them out, or copy them if we want to. I tend to print out troop and weapon profiles, along with complicated rules, just to have them on me in addition to the rulebooks I lug around all the time. In truth, I don't really need to lug around the books, but I like to have them around because I always have people asking questions about the game, or asking to look through the books. So its a good way to get others involved in the game.
Then you tell em' the rules are free online and they look at you like you're a crazyperson.
And hey, a lot of us have terrible places we work for where we can abuse the **** out of a laserprinter to punch out some PDFs. Sooooo just saying!
((And if anyone wants to abuse my laserprinter let me know. They don't pay me enough.))
Using the rulebooks themselves during gaming is a bit awkward - I like the "Re-Edit" rules PDF for that, and I hope that the crew that did them is on board for 3rd edition - or, even better, not even necessary because the Official Version is fine and doesn't need them!
Alpharius wrote: What would you have liked to have seen instead?
An actual new edition, not a replacement for the core book. What's the difference? I own the 1st edition book and more minis than many of the people I see playing at my local store, but I've never played a game. I finally have a group willing to try it and a new edition would be great as it would be a new start, but wait... it's not because there are two other books needed for "complete" rules.
So this is a revised book meant to replace the core to the extent that it doesn't invalidate auxillery books. Pile all the rules and make the rules clearer and I'd accept a new edition.
A new players buy in for 3rd edition is near identical to 2nd because the new core book doesn't want to step on the toes of two other books. Great for those already drinking the Koolaid, but really a one step forward, one step back for getting new players.
I don't cRe what the Nottingham robbers do, I'm using the word edition to mean something significantly different than the thing before it. See D&D 3.5 versus 4e.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: I think the thing is that Fireteams and those later rules aren't 'core' rules. They are considered advanced rules not necessary for gameplay.
Yet at the same time, you can lament the lack of everything being in one place, but it is in one place, the internet, for free. So that is cool.
I turn my cell phone off at the games store as apparently the roof is made of vampiric adamantium and is impervious to cell signals and my cell phone drains its battery within an hour or two trying. Also, if I wanted the rules off the internet, I'd just skip the book and get them off the internet. I do that with other games that have PDFs but I like having a hard book to look through as well. Are fire teams and link teams the same thing or different btw?
Also @Kan - I'm not saying you have the internet on you at all times, but I'm saying we can look up the rules, print them out, or copy them if we want to. I tend to print out troop and weapon profiles, along with complicated rules, just to have them on me in addition to the rulebooks I lug around all the time. In truth, I don't really need to lug around the books, but I like to have them around because I always have people asking questions about the game, or asking to look through the books. So its a good way to get others involved in the game.
I'm right there with you on preferring having the books on me. I just don't see it a big deal to carry around three books for gaming. I guess my years of hauling RPG books to friend's houses has made me numb to it.
And Fireteams and Link Teams are the same thing. I don't know why they have two different names for the same thing. It gets confusing for sure.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: And Fireteams and Link Teams are the same thing. I don't know why they have two different names for the same thing. It gets confusing for sure.
From what I understand, "Fireteam" is the term used to overarching describe the process as a whole.
"Linked Team" is a specific (and most common) type of "Fireteam" that you form in a sectorial list. Other rules such as Haris, Enomotaechos, etc are all other types of Fireteams that act similar to, but aren't synonymous with Linked Teams.
At least, that's the way I understood it.
I'm hoping 3rdEd will just have more concrete wording on all this.
Alpharius wrote: What would you have liked to have seen instead?
An actual new edition, not a replacement for the core book. What's the difference? I own the 1st edition book and more minis than many of the people I see playing at my local store, but I've never played a game. I finally have a group willing to try it and a new edition would be great as it would be a new start, but wait... it's not because there are two other books needed for "complete" rules.
So this is a revised book meant to replace the core to the extent that it doesn't invalidate auxillery books. Pile all the rules and make the rules clearer and I'd accept a new edition.
A new players buy in for 3rd edition is near identical to 2nd because the new core book doesn't want to step on the toes of two other books. Great for those already drinking the Koolaid, but really a one step forward, one step back for getting new players.
I don't cRe what the Nottingham robbers do, I'm using the word edition to mean something significantly different than the thing before it. See D&D 3.5 versus 4e.
Iain.
The rules will be as always free, so a new player can if they want print them all, or buy the new rulebook and print the additions from the pdf, I feel its unfair to assume as a fact what 3rd edition is and isn't, before it is out.
And Fireteams and Link Teams are the same thing. I don't know why they have two different names for the same thing. It gets confusing for sure.
My current limited knowledge of Infinity is from equal parts reading this thread, a few conversations with players, and watching the BOW intro videos. IIRC link teams don't "cost" anything extra, right? You just gain them when using certain units as a backdoor way of adding functionality to grunts to counter the utility of rambos, correct? If so, I'd ask those opposed to including those rules in the core book when was the last time they used those units that had the rule without using the rule? If the answer is never or really long ago then and you don't need "permission" to use the rule like certain 40k ones then it is in fact a core rule that just happened to be made up after the core book was. What possible opposition could there be to including a rule that seemingly almost everyone uses when they can (again... correct me if I'm missing something like an extra points cost or SWC or something to use it)? My guess is that MORE units will likely end up getting the rule if they're in fact reevaluating the units and stats for the new edition (which is something that they should do and I agree with every 5+ years).
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: And Fireteams and Link Teams are the same thing. I don't know why they have two different names for the same thing. It gets confusing for sure.
From what I understand, "Fireteam" is the term used to overarching describe the process as a whole.
"Linked Team" is a specific (and most common) type of "Fireteam" that you form in a sectorial list. Other rules such as Haris, Enomotaechos, etc are all other types of Fireteams that act similar to, but aren't synonymous with Linked Teams.
At least, that's the way I understood it.
I'm hoping 3rdEd will just have more concrete wording on all this.
Yeah... that is a much better answer.
I'm just used to them being interchangable. But that makes a helluva lot more sense.
And Fireteams and Link Teams are the same thing. I don't know why they have two different names for the same thing. It gets confusing for sure.
My current limited knowledge of Infinity is from equal parts reading this thread, a few conversations with players, and watching the BOW intro videos. IIRC link teams don't "cost" anything extra, right? You just gain them when using certain units as a backdoor way of adding functionality to grunts to counter the utility of rambos, correct? If so, I'd ask those opposed to including those rules in the core book when was the last time they used those units that had the rule without using the rule? If the answer is never or really long ago then and you don't need "permission" to use the rule like certain 40k ones then it is in fact a core rule that just happened to be made up after the core book was. What possible opposition could there be to including a rule that seemingly almost everyone uses when they can (again... correct me if I'm missing something like an extra points cost or SWC or something to use it)? My guess is that MORE units will likely end up getting the rule if they're in fact reevaluating the units and stats for the new edition (which is something that they should do and I agree with every 5+ years).
The sacrifice to gain access to Link Teams is going sectorial, which severely depletes the options the main list offers, Tohaa and Haris leaders are an exception to this since they are allowed on the main list, but they pay for this and they are limited to the lowest level of link team, just 3 models.
And Fireteams and Link Teams are the same thing. I don't know why they have two different names for the same thing. It gets confusing for sure.
My current limited knowledge of Infinity is from equal parts reading this thread, a few conversations with players, and watching the BOW intro videos. IIRC link teams don't "cost" anything extra, right? You just gain them when using certain units as a backdoor way of adding functionality to grunts to counter the utility of rambos, correct? If so, I'd ask those opposed to including those rules in the core book when was the last time they used those units that had the rule without using the rule? If the answer is never or really long ago then and you don't need "permission" to use the rule like certain 40k ones then it is in fact a core rule that just happened to be made up after the core book was. What possible opposition could there be to including a rule that seemingly almost everyone uses when they can (again... correct me if I'm missing something like an extra points cost or SWC or something to use it)? My guess is that MORE units will likely end up getting the rule if they're in fact reevaluating the units and stats for the new edition (which is something that they should do and I agree with every 5+ years).
Link Teams are only available to Sectorials, Tohaa, and a couple units with special rules that allow small Link Teams.
Link Teams are used to make a large, mobile, dangerous squad. You don't have to pay any extra for it.
It has good points, and bad points.
But I still think it makes sense not to include those in the core rules if they're trying to keep the levels of play distinct. When I started, Link Teams didn't exist. Now they do. I can easily get online and learn about them, buy the Human Sphere book, or print out the rules and use them.
It isn't about money at all, which is great, it is just about convenience. Yeah, it is a minor inconvenience, but I can't imagine people skipping over the game because all of their free rules weren't in the same place.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: It isn't about money at all, which is great, it is just about convenience. Yeah, it is a minor inconvenience, but I can't imagine people skipping over the game because all of their free rules weren't in the same place.
That's what the Infinity Wiki is for.
I've taught people the game almost entirely by the wiki alone.
PsychoticStorm wrote: The rules will be as always free, so a new player can if they want print them all, or buy the new rulebook and print the additions from the pdf,...
The problem isn't cost, it's footing. That and I still need two other books to have a complete set of rules.
PsychoticStorm wrote: ... I feel its unfair to assume as a fact what 3rd edition is and isn't, before it is out.
And I am judge the words of the company's spokesman. He literally said replace. It was a very graphic demonstration as to what the new core book is supposed to do.
Now if they take rules from the other two books and use them in the new core, then I will agree it's a new edition. Of course that along with inevitable stat line rejigging will relegate the two other books next to the 1st core and art book... something they say isn't going to happen.
The company line that they are going to rewrite the book for clarity, rejig some stuff, add some models but not step on the toes of Human Sphere and Paridiso sounds crazy.
@ Warboss: Same thing, but the Haris fireteam, the Enomotarchos (sp?) and the Tohaa triads are slightly different. Use airplane mode on your phone The Aleph Toolbox app (android) has the wiki built in, but currently it seems to have screen re-size problems on my Nexus 7. I print the army list though.
I too am fine with the separation of the books, but I used to play AD&D 1st ed. There were 6 or so books you could use on a regular basis there. So YMMV considerably from mine. Keeping the books separated means more room for background and artwork too.
However, I would like to see a unified ruleset PDF, regular and printer friendly, for download, rather than the scattered, and confusing to newbies, stuff now available. Same for the Army lists.
Edit to add: the Basic rule book will contain all the basic rules for the game, including all the 'new' basic rules, or so I heard. Human Sphere and Paradiso are, shall we say, advanced rules, or supplements, and not needed to play Infinity. But they do expand it nicely. There may also be a desire to keep prices in line*. Rolling all three books into one would make a beast of a book, and a pricy one too.
*Remember that CB held prices steady for like 4-5 years (2007/8-2012) despite rising metal and energy costs, before increasing prices for the minis in Sept 2012 (right about when I bought my first minis), and increasing prices on a few specific minis again last summer.
PsychoticStorm wrote: The rules will be as always free, so a new player can if they want print them all, or buy the new rulebook and print the additions from the pdf,...
The problem isn't cost, it's footing. That and I still need two other books to have a complete set of rules.
The rules are free online, downloadable as PDFs.
I believe this is going to be the case going forward as well.
And Fireteams and Link Teams are the same thing. I don't know why they have two different names for the same thing. It gets confusing for sure.
My current limited knowledge of Infinity is from equal parts reading this thread, a few conversations with players, and watching the BOW intro videos. IIRC link teams don't "cost" anything extra, right? You just gain them when using certain units as a backdoor way of adding functionality to grunts to counter the utility of rambos, correct? If so, I'd ask those opposed to including those rules in the core book when was the last time they used those units that had the rule without using the rule? If the answer is never or really long ago then and you don't need "permission" to use the rule like certain 40k ones then it is in fact a core rule that just happened to be made up after the core book was. What possible opposition could there be to including a rule that seemingly almost everyone uses when they can (again... correct me if I'm missing something like an extra points cost or SWC or something to use it)? My guess is that MORE units will likely end up getting the rule if they're in fact reevaluating the units and stats for the new edition (which is something that they should do and I agree with every 5+ years).
You don't need to pay points or SWC to use fireteams. Fireteams are probably the main characteristic of sectorial armies. If you download the army lists PDF files, or if you use the Infinity Army, you'll see that you can choose between using sectorial lists or generic lists. Sectorial armies are themed, the units they can use are more restricted than the main list, but in return the Availability of each unit is larger, and some of them can make fireteams. After Fireteams rules were released, in Campaign Paradiso a few different fireteams were introduced. Haris rule that some minis might have (this one needs points to be invested), Tohaa linked team (a racial rule that generic Tohaa armies can use) and Enomotarchos (sp?), a particular kind of fireteam of 4 minis that Steel Phalanx sectorial army (of ALEPH) can use.
Sectorial armies were introduced, along with fireteam rules, in Human Sphere. Since Bostria says that both Human Sphere and Campaign Paradiso books are going to be still valid, and knowing that the main rulebook only covers generic army lists, fireteams rules aren't strictly a necessity. Then, having all the rules together in one book is the most useful scenario, but in a context where you are going to be using only vanilla lists, then you don't really need some other rules (such as fireteams).
So today, with my Ariadnean minis I could make an army composed only of Kazak miniatures, using the vanilla list. But then, when the Kazak sectorial army is released (we are expecting it in the next book, known as Acheron Falls), I will probably be able to field the same army, the same miniatures with the same costs, but also use fireteams with some of that minis.
1) I'm sad it's not a new edition and we are all starting at the same place,
2) It's not a new edition because you can use 2e books unadulterated,
3) I hope the official PDFs improve substantially or proper ebook versions are made available.
Point three would be interesting if the videos were interfered into the rule book.
Iain.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also doesn't this mean that HS and Paridiso could be redone if viewed more as metaplot books rather than straight rules expansion?
Thanks for the clarification on the fire teams being only for sectorials for the most part. That does make their inclusion in the core rules less likely but I'd still think that such an important mechanic should be in the core rules and (from the sound of it) expanded.
Alpharius wrote: We've already been told that Human Sphere and Paradiso are not changing - they're compatible with 3rd Edition...
I didn't say they were, just speculated they could be in the future to clean stuff up. CB seems to view the other books as much as narrative as rules expansions. When Warmachine got a new edition they updated the time line and their previous metaplot books became redundant. The models stats were rolled into faction books and new metaplot books started from the new point. CB doesn't seem to be taking this route.
1) I'm sad it's not a new edition and we are all starting at the same place,
2) It's not a new edition because you can use 2e books unadulterated,
3) I hope the official PDFs improve substantially or proper ebook versions are made available.
Point three would be interesting if the videos were interfered into the rule book.
Iain.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also doesn't this mean that HS and Paridiso could be redone if viewed more as metaplot books rather than straight rules expansion?
Iain.
in short
1) how do you know that? inside information?
1) I'm sad it's not a new edition and we are all starting at the same place,
A new edition doesn't have to revolutionise the game. A new edition can simply fix rules niggles, improve wording, and streamline some cumbersone rules. Which it seems 3rd edition will do.
This is a good way to do a new edition when there's so little wrong with the previous, like second edition Infinity.
Chairman Aeon wrote: 2) It's not a new edition because you can use 2e books unadulterated,
Does this mean 5th edition 40k was not a real new edition as 4th edition Apocalypse worked fine with it?
This is dumb reasoning.
Chairman Aeon wrote: 3) I hope the official PDFs improve substantially or proper ebook versions are made available.
I wouldn't mind well designed ebooks, or even interactive ebooks like GW did with their iBooks. But I'd certainly expect to pay for them. I wouldn't want them to replace the free PDFs at all.
As for improving the PDFs 'substantially', well, they're exactly the same as the rules sections in the rulebook. Because they're just those pages as PDFs. If the rulebook is 'substantially better' (which this edition sounds like it might be about), then your PDFs will be as well.
Not sure what he meant, but to me a proper eBook is a 1-to-1 copy of the dead tree in an electronic format. All the art, all the background, etc.
But more than that, it also needs to be properly optimized for use on devices like tablets (the current PDFs are atrocious for this). It needs bookmarks and preferably even in-text links so that if a rule is referenced, it can be clicked on to go right to it.
This would be a version that I outright pay for. I would love for CB to do something like that.
Keep a free bare-bones one around (but at least give it full bookmarks), but I'd love an eBook version of the dead tree copy. I read for enjoyment on my tablet more these days, so having a copy of the core book with background and art would be great.
in short
1) how do you know that? inside information?
2) What sort of conclusion IS that?
3) what does "proper ebook" mean?
1) Yes, I have inside information. I'm the only one who truly knows how I feel.
2) If I can replace one cog with another and not replace any other touching cogs, it's not a different cog. It may look a bit different but it's functionally the same cog. In gaming previous edition material is usually not 100% compatible. But you know...
3) Rich media, not PDF. PDFs are great for print and large screens, not so much phones and small tablets. Instructional videos embedded in rules could be really useful especially for beginners.
Iain.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
-Loki- wrote: Does this mean 5th edition 40k was not a real new edition as 4th edition Apocalypse worked fine with it?
This is dumb reasoning.
As far as I'm concerned if you can use the old codexes then no it isn't. See D&D 3 versus 3.5 and 4th.
Updated *core* rules, updated *core* fluff, lots of new artwork, and some new units for all the vanilla armies too - Tohaa and Aleph included (albeit only on the website). And all non-fluff will be available free on the website and official wiki.
Chairman Aeon wrote: As far as I'm concerned if you can use the old codexes then no it isn't. See D&D 3 versus 3.5 and 4th.
Iain.
Then it seems your personal idea of a new edition clashes with what a lot of the industry uses. So I guess you'll just have to live with being permanently disappointed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Micky wrote: Updated *core* rules, updated *core* fluff, lots of new artwork, and some new units for all the vanilla armies too - Tohaa and Aleph included (albeit only on the website). And all non-fluff will be available free on the website and official wiki.
Not sure what there is to complain about?
That it's still spread over multiple books.
Given the fact that they're clarifying and updating rules, it's just really odd that they'd forgo giving the rules in Human Sphere the same treatment. I can understand if Paradiso was written with 3rd in mind, as they've been working on 3rd for a while. But Human Sphere? The book specifically done to update 2nd edition with link teams and sectorial lists? The book that's only 1 year newer than 2nd edition?
Leaving Human Sphere out of the rules revision is just really strange. We'll have to wait and see obviously, but it just doesn't make sense that they'd give the core rules a revision, but leave the expansion out of it. Add to that they've been talking about playing with some weapon attributes - shotguns to make them more appealing and weapon range bands, as well as adjusting some points costs on units. There's weapons in the Human Sphere book too. And units. There's weapons and units in Paradiso as well.
It just feels like the potential for a huge mess if they're going to play with weapon attributes, unit points costs and rules revisions but leave out 2/3 of the current books from said revision. Not to mention if you're someone that likes using the books, you'll still need to have all 3 books on the table to cross reference units, weapons and rules.
I think the relevant adage here is, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." We can always find things to complain about. By all indications this 3rd ed will be a marked improvement. I'll take it, and figure out how to resolve any difficulties that arise when they arise. Until then, it's happy dance time
Oh I'm not ranting against 3rd edition, I just wish they did it in a way that means I wouldn't need to lug 3 books around and spend time cross referencing profiles to weapons and rules across the 3 books, at least until Acheron Falls hits.
When that hits, we're going to be lugging 4 books around now to cross reference through, instead of 2 if they did 3rd edition the logical way.
That's my sole complaint. Otherwise, bring on 3rd edition.
I HATE THIRD EDITION AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT! THIS IS TERRIBLE AND I DON'T WANT IT!
With that out of the way...
I'm anxious to see how this plays out. It's also worth mentioning that these kinds of things are not really going to change unless Infinity goes away from their "free reference material" on the web stance.
If that happened, then we might have seen a more "logical" approach in terms of the books...but I'm okay with this way.
Honestly, I think they need to clarify the statement a bit more.
Because on the face of it, considering what they said they are changing, I can't even see how it could be true that those books wont be obsolete. Will the 3rd Edition core only contain the level-less version of Infiltration so that the update in Human Sphere makes sense? Will the 3rd Edition core include crappy and simplistic unit carrying rules so they can be replaced by Paradiso's CASEVAC system? What about the unit profiles, will the redone units from core that received new profiles in Paradiso remain unchanged so that Paradiso successfully modifies them?
I'm not even talking about the inclusion of sectorials, linking rules (and variants) or anything like that. I'm talking about basic errata to the core system that has happened over the last several books (skill changes, two weapon shooting, CASEVAC, equipment and unit updates/errata not in core). I mean, it is almost certain the new core is going to, at some point, contradict or consolidate a good chunk of new rules content from Human Sphere and Paradiso.
To put it another way. After 2nd Edition came out, my 1st Edition book wasn't 100% useless. Sure, things like initiative and deployment had changed and there were a few unit updates, but most of the basic profiles stayed the same. There were some definite changes, and without the addendum I would be able to successfully play 2nd, but I could still use bits of 1st for reference (so long as I didn't need to use the Vet. Kazak or the Naffatun in a game). So you could certainly say my 1st Edition book wasn't obsolete.
And if an addendum for the 2nd Edition Core, Human Sphere and Paradiso is published then they can definitely still say that none of those books are obsolete.
So I would love to know what they really meant by saying it. Was it a throwaway line to still the possible backlash of players who bought in less than a year ago? Was it a sign that the core would not be a complete one-stop-shop for basic rules content (we already knew they wouldn't fit all the army list stuff in there unless they were making a 500 page tome)?
It is just vague enough that I can still hope 3rd Edition wont need content from Human Sphere and Paradiso to be 100% useable with every army in the game. But it is also just vague enough that I'm worried it will be incomplete and I will still need the Human Sphere and Paradiso PDFs in order to make a full set of rules.
I'm kind of hoping it was just a calming platitude or right-on-a-technicality. Ideally, we shouldn't need to crack open more than the core rules PDF and an armylist PDF to get our fix. The new core should obviate the need for a fan driven consolidated rules text, otherwise what is the point of a new edition? New players will want to play sectorials and without that stuff being at least explained in the core book, it will still feel like extra hoops to jump through. Those players that like DTF stuff will feel obligated to grab Human Sphere (and those who looked at Aleph or the Tohaa will need to grab Paradiso to boot). And even if going fully digital, having three PDFs to reference (not including army list files) instead of one is a pain in the arse as well (especially with how badly the current ones run on tablets).
So I kind of hope CB clarifies their statement in that regard. From what they've told us, 3rd Edition will contain changes that will make parts of HS and Paradiso obsolete simply because both of those book contain errata to the core rules (something which we know N3 will include). So saying the old books wont be obsolete seems like it may even just be a weasel statement to avoid righteous anger from new folks. I mean, at the very least most of the army profiles, some of the rules and all of the fluff will still be useful.
A more useful statement would be whether you need anything of the than the new 3rd Edition core (or its free PDF) and your army list (which hopefully consolidates EVERYTHING from all the books in to the updated format) to play. Because it is less important to know that the new edition wont make the books I already own 100% useless (possibly by eating them while I sleep). It is more important to me whether 3rd Edition CAN be a one-stop-shop for all Infinity rules content up to the point of its publishing (again, not including army lists, because they are huge). The statement that HS/Paradiso wont be obsolete doesn't answer the latter and worse, we can draw a lot of conclusions from it which they may or may not have intended.
But I fear we wont get clarification until we start hearing more about the actual new edition. I'm just nervous of this new edition going the way of Heavy Gear's abortive soft reboot (via the field manual). They published a new core set of rules but still required army lists and other info pulled from 2-4 other books. It completely replaced the core rules (well, most of them, still needed the army lists from the core book) but the supplements and the rest of the mess remained. It actually made it harder for new folks to get in. That is the last thing I want for N3.
In the end, I'm going to wait and see, because that statement doesn't mean N3 wont be 100% complete out of the box. But it is the kind of statement that, without any explanation, could mean something pretty boneheaded when trying to reboot with a new edition. I dearly hope that it was just a statement made to placate the masses and not a sign that the new edition is incomplete out of the box.
-Loki- wrote: Given the fact that they're clarifying and updating rules, it's just really odd that they'd forgo giving the rules in Human Sphere the same treatment. I can understand if Paradiso was written with 3rd in mind, as they've been working on 3rd for a while. But Human Sphere? The book specifically done to update 2nd edition with link teams and sectorial lists? The book that's only 1 year newer than 2nd edition?
Leaving Human Sphere out of the rules revision is just really strange. We'll have to wait and see obviously, but it just doesn't make sense that they'd give the core rules a revision, but leave the expansion out of it. Add to that they've been talking about playing with some weapon attributes - shotguns to make them more appealing and weapon range bands, as well as adjusting some points costs on units. There's weapons in the Human Sphere book too. And units. There's weapons and units in Paradiso as well.
One thing to bear in mind is that the level and style of rules-writing changed totally between the second edition rulebook and Human Sphere. Although something like a third of the overall rules text comes from Human Sphere and Paradiso, the vast majority (90%?) of the FAQs are for the main rules or for where the HS/Paradiso rules are affected by 'loose' bits of the main rules.
Presumably there'll be an addendum for weapons and profiles.
Well, it looks like the Antipodes are coming within the next few months. Angel Giraldez is offering to do a step by step of the Antipode and controller if he reaches 4900 "Likes" on Facebook.
IJW wrote: Presumably there'll be an addendum for weapons and profiles.
Regarding weapons, profiles and army lists, I wouldn't even mind if they were separated in the books like they are now but there was one single combined unit profile list per faction, one single unified weapon list, and one single unified set of army lists as PDFs. That way you simply print off your factions profile list, the weapon list and the army list, err, list. Then the only hunting around would be for special rules.
Right now, for a complete Haqqislam profile list and weapons, I need the following PDFs:
Army and Weapon lists
Human Sphere - Army Lists
Campaign Paradiso - Army Lists
New Profiles (Updated 02/26/2014)
To make it more confusing, some profiles are split between PDFs. Two Odalisque profiles and a Muyib profile are in the Campaign Paradiso PDF and the actual main profile with stats for both is in the Human Sphere PDF.
If they're revising the core rules for readability and accessibility but leaving out Human Sphere and Paradiso, I'd really appreciate (and so would every single Infinity player I've spoken to at my FLGS) unified PDFs. Weapon List PDF, profile list PDF for each faction, Army List PDF.
But if you print out your list with either of the Big Two Free Online Army Builders, most of that can be pretty conveniently placed on a piece of paper.
Chairman Aeon wrote: In summary:
1) I'm sad it's not a new edition and we are all starting at the same place,
2) It's not a new edition because you can use 2e books unadulterated,
It's your personal definition, people understood and people seem to disagree, no need posting it multiple times unless you have new arguments to bring forward.
And to add my opinion to the mix using your line of reasoning: If old stuff works with it, it's not a new edition. When I install a new version of my operating system on my PC I expect some level of incompatibility, but I would be royally pissed if nothing worked with the new version and I had to buy a new version of every application. And expecting microsoft to include a free office, outlook etc. with the next version of windows is not a very realistic expectation.
Campaign rules and sectorials are additional levels of the game. The fact that most people currently seem to prefer to play sectorials doesn't change anything about that fact. Everybody uses some type of office application, but that doesn't automatically make it a core function of the next operating system. Campaign rules are entirely optional, so are sectorials. The game was originally designed without them.
That being said, I'm with you on the "would be neat to have everything in one place" front, but it makes perfect sense that they didn't go that way and they offer an alternative via free rules that you can print out and bind as one book instead of or in addition to buying the book.
3) I hope the official PDFs improve substantially or proper ebook versions are made available.
Point three would be interesting if the videos were interfered into the rule book
That would be great for some of us (me included) but it's obviously a different product from a free rule book. I assume it would be quite some work to turn the rules into a structurally sound and interactive e-book. CB would be out of their mind to give that away for free. Maybe in the future they will get around to produce such a thing, but I guess the market would be relatively small for that.
Someone (think it was Loki) put it succinctly: updating the rules but not covering anything in Human Sphere or Paradiso would be crazy. Both those books reference and work off the core rules. Both contain profiles, equipment and special rules. Changing the core rules would necessitate rebalancing and create FAQs/rules contradictions, at the very least. If a new edition is being released, it just makes sense to reprint all rules, edited for compatibility. Even if the expansions still 'function' there must be noticeable discrepancies, and it is just so much easier to have all the rules in one source.
On that note, I would also love to see any new rules re-formatted both in the books and online. I play Infinity using a printout that was put together by some fans of the game, combining the core and HS rules in one booklet, with the order slightly rearranged and the fluff taken out. As awesome as infinity's rules are, they could be more clearly presented. Some defend this by advocating using the wiki, but what's stopping CB from taking their experience on board, looking at what sort of clarifications and info are on the wiki now, and putting that information into the written rules?
Interesting comment about the Bolts and the comment that LoL and Retreat are being reworked. Carlos says that Bolts won't fall back in Retreat like Fusiliers, but so far the only units that do that are Religious.
-Loki- wrote: Finally got time to watch the BoW interview.
Interesting comment about the Bolts and the comment that LoL and Retreat are being reworked. Carlos says that Bolts won't fall back in Retreat like Fusiliers, but so far the only units that do that are Religious.
Bolts aren't Religious.
My stab in the dark is that it's related to their "Veteran Troop" classification. Because at the moment that does... nothing? Or they'll get a new rule, either one.
Also I only bought the V2 rulebook like... 2 months ago, yet I am not one bit annoyed about this news, nor am I worried at all about what changes will come.
Carlos sounds like my kind of gamer. Talking about the 55mm base and people complaining about it increasing visibility to lines of fire - "Don't worry. Enjoy the awesome miniature. We'll figure out how to make it work in game".
Love the Ghazi Mutti'wah redesign - and Carlos clarification about how some people assume them to be suicide bombers (they're not, and their fluff doesn't suggest it). Can't wait to get a few and disable some HI links.
The Nikaul Ambush Unit looks staggeringly awesome. The 360 shots they showed in the interview were simply stunning. That one will be getting added to my Tohaa.
The awesome thing about the Terracotta Warrior? 35pt Heavy Line Infantry. Now that's a cheerleader! I think the HMG is mislabelled. The Druze Spitfire has a Yu Jing model Spitfire that looks exactly the same, and is a recent model.
-Loki- wrote: The awesome thing about the Terracotta Warrior? 35pt Heavy Line Infantry. Now that's a cheerleader! I think the HMG is mislabelled. The Druze Spitfire has a Yu Jing model Spitfire that looks exactly the same, and is a recent model.
Where are you getting a cost from (I don't think anything was announced)?
People have been speculating on that sucker since we saw grainy photos of it, and many are kind of under the impression that the starter box would be nearly unworkable unless they bring 'em down below 25 points. I tend to agree, especially if they are to be the main line troopers for the list. Yu Jing already has plenty of 27-36 point HI line troopers in their stable. With some creative cutting on the Domaru profile (getting rid of most special rules, the CC ability and its funky grenades and CCW; replacing the chain rifle with a combi) you can get an HI profile packing Frenzy and coming in at 17-20 points. Seems more reasonable if that is going to be the Invincible Army's line trooper (especially in the starter box). If they were each 30+ points then a 300 point army would be hard pressed to get 10 of them in there.
'Course, maybe they have an order sergeant equivalent. But if these guys are following alongside Wildcats and Thorakitai as interesting line infantry options, then I think we may be seeing a really barebones HI that comes in at less than 26 points.
As for the HMG, there are loads of little differences compared to the Yu Jing spitfire.
They have a similar look, but that is definitely a straight-up redesign of Yu Jing's HMG. The Yu Jing spitfire has a long under-hanging bit on the front of the gun and no rail/iron sights on the top (at least not as pronounced as on the HMG redesign). The Yu Jing spitfire also has a rubberized/contoured foregrip along the lower front end, like the combi and MULTI.
Definitely from the same design family, definitely not the same gun. About time the ridiculous minigun thing was replaced.
People have been speculating on that sucker since we saw grainy photos of it, and many are kind of under the impression that the starter box would be nearly unworkable unless they bring 'em down below 25 points. I tend to agree, especially if they are to be the main line troopers for the list. Yu Jing already has plenty of 27-36 point HI line troopers in their stable. With some creative cutting on the Domaru profile (getting rid of most special rules, the CC ability and its funky grenades and CCW; replacing the chain rifle with a combi) you can get an HI profile packing Frenzy and coming in at 17-20 points. Seems more reasonable if that is going to be the Invincible Army's line trooper (especially in the starter box). If they were each 30+ points then a 300 point army would be hard pressed to get 10 of them in there.
'Course, maybe they have an order sergeant equivalent. But if these guys are following alongside Wildcats and Thorakitai as interesting line infantry options, then I think we may be seeing a really barebones HI that comes in at less than 26 points.
A bare-bones magister is 27 points. Take off religious and hyper-dynamics and replace the panzerfaust with a combi-rifle, and I can see that being 25 points.
I just rewatched the section with the Invincible, and I must have made an automatic assumption of about 35pts as he compared them to 3 light line infantry.
Looking at the pictures makes me want to have all of them.
The Muttawi'ah look like something I actually want to field now. Fanatical as they may be, the old sculpts were toodamnugly. Now they look rather awesome, and I'll certainly enjoy ruining TAGs with them.
And the Spetznaz look cool. And the Terra Cotta Warriors look freaking solid... I just want to paint them! HI Army go!
And though I may never use the Fast Pandas, they are adorbs. And I have a thing for adorable robots in the middle of a warzone. Not super sold on the Interventors, but apparently the Nomads are now straight off The Grid.
And despite the flak she'll be getting, I absolutely love the Kum Biker chick. Even has the trashy angel-wings back tattoo. I dig it.
-Loki- wrote: Love the Ghazi Mutti'wah redesign - and Carlos clarification about how some people assume them to be suicide bombers (they're not, and their fluff doesn't suggest it). Can't wait to get a few and disable some HI links.
I like the redesign as well but have to disagree about the fluff not suggesting it; my take away was more of a high tech version (EMP vs explosion) and the old/current model suggests it with it's visuals. That unit/model is the reason why I sold my Hassassins. If you wish, we could discuss/debate it in the sub-forum.
The original fluff was based around the original design for the EMP weapons. Since they dropped a roudn template directly over the model. Because of this, nobody really used them, so they got a redesign of the weapon that made it more useful, and didn't put the unit at risk by being basically an EMP bomb.
I always read them as fanatical, but not necessarily suicidal. That's what my Kuang Shi are for.
I would agree not necessarily suicidal, but definitely not afraid of death, maybe even having a death wish but not to the level of suicidal. Course all this is having me looking at Haqqislam again and I don't need more unpainted minis at the moment.
I can't speak to the point cost of the Invincible army stuff, but HI are a viable choice at 400 point games. A 4 asawira link is a very scary thing. And pricy. But doable
The mutt's concept art has a vaguely hipsterish look to me.
I think it's mostly the girl, who looks more like a college kid than a proper spec-ops combatant. So... yeah. I dunno. I still really like the design though, and the shamough will be fun to paint.
Running 4 Asawira in a link sounds absolutely terrifying. With Regeneration and their WP, keeping them down must be really difficult.
Considering Ghazi's aren't spec ops, I wouldn't expact them to look like spec ops. They're not even necessarily trained combatants, but people who want to be given a cube.
And yeah, the Gazi aren't legit spec ops, which is one of the reason I haven't wanted to really use them before. I always felt that the forces that clash in Infinity are in that 'best of the best' category. So when I see them it's like, "Uhhh... why are you here? Bro, do you even Sptetznaz?"
And yeah, the Gazi aren't legit spec ops, which is one of the reason I haven't wanted to really use them before. I always felt that the forces that clash in Infinity are in that 'best of the best' category. So when I see them it's like, "Uhhh... why are you here? Bro, do you even Sptetznaz?"
I'll squeeze em' into my fluff somehow I'm sure.
Yeah, but if that's the case then why use Metros, Alguaciles, Fusiliers, Morat Vanguard, etc.
But also they represent to me the 'Green' spec ops guys. They've been pulled from their normal units because they showed aptitude of some kind, and are getting their first real 'combat run' to see if they'll eventually be more specialized and whatnot.
Kinda like how the Spec Ops troop profiles are based on the Line Troops.
With the Gazi it's more like, "Hey you, you're a little crazy. We're gonna give you this big scary microwave gun thing that is gonna totally erase that bad guy's cell phone contacts or something. Oh and here's a chain rifle. Open end towards enemy. Have fun kids."
But also they represent to me the 'Green' spec ops guys. They've been pulled from their normal units because they showed aptitude of some kind, and are getting their first real 'combat run' to see if they'll eventually be more specialized and whatnot.
Kinda like how the Spec Ops troop profiles are based on the Line Troops.
With the Gazi it's more like, "Hey you, you're a little crazy. We're gonna give you this big scary microwave gun thing that is gonna totally erase that bad guy's cell phone contacts or something. Oh and here's a chain rifle. Open end towards enemy. Have fun kids."
Or something.
Actually the reasoning is because Infinity started life as a RPG for the Corvus Belli guys. The idea was to have an "A-Team Special Forces" game, more or less, and to show how awesome you are in a RPG you always need tidal waves of cannon fodder for the heros to mow through.
Kan what on Earth is your Sig referencing?
It's a line from the description of the "Acorn of the Ages" in the new Wood Elf book. Apparently the acorns have to be picked up really quick or there might be rampaging giant squirrels.
Kanluwen wrote: It's a line from the description of the "Acorn of the Ages" in the new Wood Elf book. Apparently the acorns have to be picked up really quick or there might be rampaging giant squirrels.
MRPYM wrote: If anyone is just interested in pictures.
Man, I so cannot wait for that model!
What size base is that, most likely? 40mm... or the new 55mm?
40mm.
Sappers are supposed to come with a 40mm and a 25mm base, but I have never gotten a 25mm base with the three Ariadna and 1 Shasvastii Sapper models I've bought.
And yeah, the Gazi aren't legit spec ops, which is one of the reason I haven't wanted to really use them before. I always felt that the forces that clash in Infinity are in that 'best of the best' category. So when I see them it's like, "Uhhh... why are you here? Bro, do you even Sptetznaz?"
I'll squeeze em' into my fluff somehow I'm sure.
Cannon fodder. Meh. Already said something on that. But... we know that there have been, erm, 'issues' with impetuous orders, and that CB will probably (I suspect) tidy up the matter with N3. So who knows how these sorts of units will change. The concept art is fantastic, and I would imagine the box is 2 male, 2 female, with 2 chain rifles, 1 boarding shotgun (which is also rumored to change) and one w/out a main weapon shown, since that seems to be the trend. If nothing else, they can be nice proxies. Personally a blister of 2 would have sufficed for me, but they are AVA 4. June will be an interesting month of releases I think.
I can't wait for the Ghazi Mutti'wah box. I keep wanting to try them, but I can't bring myself to buy those ugly old models, and I simply do not proxy outside of maybe a different weapon. As my brother loves his HI links, I really want to use one to drop an E/Marat template on them.
Yeah, two seems fine for me, I don't necessarily need 4 of them. But if there are 4 interesting sculpts I'll end up picking them up anyway. Like Loki, I have some friends who love dat HI, so that'll be useful for sure.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: Yeah, two seems fine for me, I don't necessarily need 4 of them. But if there are 4 interesting sculpts I'll end up picking them up anyway. Like Loki, I have some friends who love dat HI, so that'll be useful for sure.
It's a 4 model box and there's no plans for blisters, as far as I know.
Yeah, I'm the same. I'm not certain I'd ever use 4 Ghazis, but with the new models being released as a 4 model box, I'll just buy it and suck it up.
Hopefully it'll be 2 Chain Rifles and 2 Boarding Shotguns. Since I never see myself using more than 2, that would let me go with different combinations of weapons.
I just hope they don't pull a Daturazi on us and not give any a Chain Rifle, because that gun looks badass.
Ghazis have 2 profiles - boarding shotgun and chain rifle, and their sidearm is a plain old pistol. Other main weapon on both is the E/Marat.
I can see maybe 2 with chain rifle or boarding shot gun, 1 with the other, and one using his E/Marat. But a sidearmed model would look kind of odd seeing as it's a standard pistol.
Well yes, I know how the E/Marat use would be depicted. However, it's not something that would have much in the way of pose variety like the Daturazi got away with having two CCWs.
Which is why I would expect 2 of each gun. It's not like they have multiple profiles they need to try and squeeze in. 2 of each gun would also work for people who want to WYSIWIG 4 of the same gun - simply buy 2 boxes.
Sure, but again: look at the precedent set by the Briscards, Sekban, Kaplan, Scots Guard, and Wulver Grenadiers.
They're trying to find ways to make boxed sets include one or two "proxyable" models. I really would not be surprised by at least one pistol or two models wielding the jammers instead of a firearm.
Any word on when that Ravage Magazine w/ the N3 quickstarter rules will become available outside of Spain? or how the rest of us can get the QSR stuff?
Kanluwen wrote: Sure, but again: look at the precedent set by the Briscards, Sekban, Kaplan, Scots Guard, and Wulver Grenadiers.
Which all contain multiple profile,s plus special weapons that were included in the box, necessitating the need for sidearm equipped proxy units to fill in for people who wanted to run multiples of models equipped with the 'basic' weapons. Even Daturazi don't really fit - they have Combi Rifles, Chain Rifles and Boarding Shotguns, plus an LGL.
So far there simply has not been a 4 model box for a unit that only has 2 profiles. Like, not even 2 profiles but different CCW's to actually turn it into 8 profiles. Just flat out 2 profiles. There's really no precedent that fits the box.
Kanluwen wrote: Sure, but again: look at the precedent set by the Briscards, Sekban, Kaplan, Scots Guard, and Wulver Grenadiers.
Which all contain multiple profile,s plus special weapons that were included in the box, necessitating the need for sidearm equipped proxy units to fill in for people who wanted to run multiples of models equipped with the 'basic' weapons. Even Daturazi don't really fit - they have Combi Rifles, Chain Rifles and Boarding Shotguns, plus an LGL.
So far there simply has not been a 4 model box for a unit that only has 2 profiles. Like, not even 2 profiles but different CCW's to actually turn it into 8 profiles. Just flat out 2 profiles. There's really no precedent that fits the box.
It might not be "2 profiles", but of those boxes I mentioned 4 only had several repeat "loadouts" left to represent.
Briscards: Sniper Rifle profile, Forward Observer profile(which is really just the basic profile with the FO skill), and the basic Marksman Rifle profile. Rather than pack in 3x Marksman Rifles with a single Sniper Rifle, they included a single model that can be used to represent pretty much every Briscard profile but the HRL.
Sekban and Kaplan were in a similar position.
Sure, but again, that's because they were packing in more than 2 profiles. They needed a profile that could be used for 'anything', because people were going to want to use combinations not allowed if they made those sidearm proxies an actual loadout.
Ghazi simply don't have that problem.Short of, as IJW said, putting in another profile we haven't seen, there's nothing to need a proxy for.2 of each weapon gives you plentiful combination. And if you really want 4 of each profile available, you can just buy the box twice.
A good example of this is actually the Chaksa Auxiliary. 2 Heavy Flamers, 1 HMG, 1 GHRL. No proxies because there's only 3 profiles. If people want to run 4 heavy flamer Chaksa, buy the box twice. This also gives you 2 HMG's and 2 GHRL's. While 2 GHRL's isn't popular, 2 HMG's is.
Yeah, the old E/Marats were chest mounted explody things, but the newer ones, since they are directed weapons, actually have a transmitter array thing. Looks like a little dish. In one of the rulebooks (Human Sphere I believe) they have a little picture of the new ones. I might be confusing it with the Jammer, but I thought that didn't come out until Paradisio, and I know the E/Marats got the rework in Human Sphere.
And if you notice in the concept art, the backpack thing they're wearing has a thick cable that runs off. So I'm betting the backpack is now a powerpack to run the thing, and they're carrying the actual transmitter part that is hooked up to the backpack.
Alpharius wrote: Who knew that Ghazis could provoke so much speculation and conversation?
Not me...
Someone wake me up when it is over!
No sleeping on the job, you. We Infinity folk need constant moderation. It is as if we never read rule #1 or something... XD. And you'd have more energy if you spent less time changing your Avatar every day
No preview photos this week? Or will it be a week-end thing? I'm curious to see these new interventors, and how they will make a box out of the Santiagos.
Alpharius wrote: Who knew that Ghazis could provoke so much speculation and conversation?
Not me...
Someone wake me up when it is over!
No sleeping on the job, you. We Infinity folk need constant moderation. It is as if we never read rule #1 or something... XD. And you'd have more energy if you spent less time changing your Avatar every day
Sadly, it seems like my (everyone's?!) favourite avatar has gone for now :(
So does anyone have any idea what the "Breaker Pistols" on the YJ Terracotta Soldier's concept could be? Not only are they a new thing (?), but they have two of them.
Savnock wrote: So does anyone have any idea what the "Breaker Pistols" on the YJ Terracotta Soldier's concept could be? Not only are they a new thing (?), but they have two of them.
E/M pistols, maybe?
If that was the case, i think they'd just be called "E/M Pistols"
CB have no compunctions about naming weapons based on the damage they do. AP Rifle, Viral Combi, etc
The fact that they havent done that tells me that its going to have some funky rules of some sort.
Savnock wrote: So does anyone have any idea what the "Breaker Pistols" on the YJ Terracotta Soldier's concept could be? Not only are they a new thing (?), but they have two of them.
E/M pistols, maybe?
If that was the case, i think they'd just be called "E/M Pistols"
CB have no compunctions about naming weapons based on the damage they do. AP Rifle, Viral Combi, etc
The fact that they havent done that tells me that its going to have some funky rules of some sort.
Hmmm. But some things (like Blitzen) are not named for their effect.
My guess is still E/M. Maaaaaybe a Jammer effect, but that seems a little ridiculous to put into a pistol.
They don't look like breech-loaders, so at least we can guess that the "breaker" part probably doesn't refer to weapon structure.
If they were meant to be some kind of funky, all-new weapon then they would have a fancy name like Mk12, ojotnik, spitfire, molotok, feuerbach, etc. The only weapon I can think of that bucks the trend is the Marksman Rifle which follows the * [weapon name] format but changes the stats rather than applying an ammo type. And of course, the Templar CCW grants AP+DA to a CCW in one shot (to give an example of a tandem ammo-type effect with its own name).
But those cases are rare. My guess is simply that it will be a new type of ammo called Breaker.
As for the effect it causes, haven't a clue. But I think we may simply be seeing a new ammo type spring in to existence here.
Ronin_eX wrote: If they were meant to be some kind of funky, all-new weapon then they would have a fancy name like Mk12, ojotnik, spitfire, molotok, feuerbach, etc. The only weapon I can think of that bucks the trend is the Marksman Rifle which follows the * [weapon name] format but changes the stats rather than applying an ammo type. And of course, the Templar CCW grants AP+DA to a CCW in one shot (to give an example of a tandem ammo-type effect with its own name).
Don't forget Light Rocket Launcher, Heavy Rocket Launcher.
-Loki- wrote: How would AP+EM work? AP required a save against armour, EM requires a save against BTS. Or do you do both saves and apply the effects separately?
One armour save at half ARM and one unmodified BTS save. Senor Massacre does the same thing in CC, so it wouldn't be unprecedented.
Ronin_eX wrote: If they were meant to be some kind of funky, all-new weapon then they would have a fancy name like Mk12, ojotnik, spitfire, molotok, feuerbach, etc. The only weapon I can think of that bucks the trend is the Marksman Rifle which follows the * [weapon name] format but changes the stats rather than applying an ammo type. And of course, the Templar CCW grants AP+DA to a CCW in one shot (to give an example of a tandem ammo-type effect with its own name).
But those cases are rare. My guess is simply that it will be a new type of ammo called Breaker.
As for the effect it causes, haven't a clue. But I think we may simply be seeing a new ammo type spring in to existence here.
Not necessarily "new"...
K1 ammunition is the result of painstaking parallel development in pursuit of an anti-armor projectile compatible with existing light rifles, ultimately giving foot soldiers the ability to suppress heavy units without the need to carry specialized equipment. The technical details of this ammunition are classified as Alpha-1-Level Top Secret, but apparently its inception involved reverse-engineering a type of alien ordnance designated as VoodooTech.
K1 ammunition is a breakthrough in anti-tank equipment that helps ease human dependence on ever-scarce Teseum, but it is still cutting-edge technology, and its hefty production costs have hampered its widespread use by the human side.
"blitzen" actually does tell you something about it's effect and way of working. It's a verb that has been around since Old High German and means "sparkle, flash", later to be used in a reduced form as "Blitz - lightning".
I don't remember the fluff, but could it be that some of the Germans among the Nomads came up with it?
The overwhelming majority of the original Infinity weapons were [AMMOTYPE] [BASE WEAPON].
AP Rifle is a rifle that fires AP special ammo.
DACCW is a CCW that 'fires' DA special ammo.
It's formulaic and understandable from a gameplay perspective. As players, we really don't care if that Kazak is using a Putin Industries Avotmatikatosh Kalashnikovovich Mark 3047. We just call it "Rifle" because it works just like the "Rifle" that the Nomads have.
The weapons with 'special' names tend to be weapons that dont fit standard profiles, either because of range bands or a combination of damage types. Eg. the Blitzen example is basicly a Panzerfaust that uses the E/M2 damage type... but they couldn't call it an EM Panzerfaust because that in itself had its own subset of rules and they wouldnt match up.
On the other hand... its possible that "Breaker" is a new ammo/damage type, and in every other regard its just a pistol.
Maybe it fires armor piercing, explosive rounds? And since it does use the plural, maybe we'll have a model dual wielding pistols? Hmm, a dual wielding HI model could be kind of cool looking.
The mini is fairly cool, but I wanted to see the Spetsnaz :(
Kalamadea wrote: YES! I LOVE the first Raiden Seibutai and this one is every bit as good! Is it too much to hope for that this is part of a 4-figure set?
I'm afraid that in such case, they would have shown the 4 minis. So I'm guessing this will be a 1-mini blister.
You no visit BoLs? I haven't checked that place in a long time, and have no plans to do so ever again. It is the last place I would look for Infinity news. I hope that this is not a trend, and that BoLS will not be a source for Infinity previews.
Corvus Belli is and has been seemingly branching out to other news outlets for a while now. Even MiniWargaming admit they're rather ignorant of Infinity, but they gave it a decent shot when given a preview.
That entire BOLS article is just a half-assed copy+paste of the Raiden description from the Infinity main site with some studio pictures they were given.
Anyways, that "gamewire" isn't the BOLS main site.
Absolutionis wrote: Corvus Belli is and has been seemingly branching out to other news outlets for a while now. Even MiniWargaming admit they're rather ignorant of Infinity, but they gave it a decent shot when given a preview.
That entire BOLS article is just a half-assed copy+paste of the Raiden description from the Infinity main site with some studio pictures they were given.
Anyways, that "gamewire" isn't the BOLS main site.
Ah OK, that would explain it! My memory of BoLS was a 40k list-building/tactics website, didn't know they had branched out into other stuff. Good that they have though, although I agree it could have done with a bit of effort to write something about it, rather than copy-pasting from the official blurb.
Daba wrote: Is the Terracotta soldier going to be a cheap HI? He looks pretty cool, looking forward to them.
It will supposedly be the replacement for the normal line troopers in the starter set. Considering that, unless CB plan on making the most overstuffed starter to date, they will probably be at or below Domaru/Haramaki price.
Either by cutting down to the bare minimum, or by being glorified MI (ala Ariadna HI).
So yes, most likely cheap HI. Though there is an outside chance for being 30+ points a pop despite their use in the starter. We wont know until the profile come along.
Well its high time we get an Invincible resculpt for sure, but Svalarheima sectorial definitely has monks and the Guilang and the woulves (forget their name now) that are not HI.
Surely you will need some light units to be cheerleaders or you won't be able to get to that magic 10 models in your force. Maybe remotes or something?
Barzam wrote: I hope the Terracotta Soldiers' boxes are handled like the Bolts. Have 1 box for the basic cheerleader types, and a second for the specialists.
Pretty sure they said this is how all future line infantry will be done in order to get all special weapons into the game.
I wish they'd do it for Ghulam so I could finally retiremy old ones compeltely.
Looking forward to invincible army, even if Svalheim (sp?) pretty much has all of my favourite Yu Jing units (Dao, Tiger, Gui, Shao)
Really like the idea of pistols with powerful special ammo. Would be a suitable replacement for the "powerful at very close range" that close combat mostly fails at so far
Hmm, that kind of makes me wonder if Yu Jing or Haqqislam will be getting some new TAGs in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised to see one for the Invincible Army.
Do not disrespect, however indirectly, the mighty Jotums!
You do realize he was talking about the Yu Jing sectorial, the enemy of the controllers of said Jotums.
Reminds me, I need to paint my Jotums soon. I wonder when we will hear more about the sectorials. I cannot imagine that they have not been playtested with N3 already.
So pure speculation, but the Ravage magazine with the N3 QSR hits the newstands in July. There is a big event in Vigo at the end of July. Could that be when CB releases N3? The timing seems convenient. But that means we won't be able to order the Rulebook until the end of August in the US. Or go the GenCon. Or have a friend who is going to GenCon...
Barzam wrote: Hmm, that kind of makes me wonder if Yu Jing or Haqqislam will be getting some new TAGs in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised to see one for the Invincible Army.
Well Yu Jing has the hinted at Blue Wolf in its upcoming lineup (linked to the Huang Di sectorial) so that's one at least. No idea if the Invincible Army will have their own, perhaps they will pick up the Guija?
Barzam wrote: Hmm, that kind of makes me wonder if Yu Jing or Haqqislam will be getting some new TAGs in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised to see one for the Invincible Army.
Didn't theysay the Maghariba was it for Haqq? And that future 'TAG equivalents' would come from the Caliphate sectorial in the form of super soldiers?
Do not disrespect, however indirectly, the mighty Jotums!
You do realize he was talking about the Yu Jing sectorial, the enemy of the controllers of said Jotums.
Reminds me, I need to paint my Jotums soon.
Yes, I do realize that.
You do realize that they're sometimes (often?) called the Jotums of Svalarheima because they were originally stationed on Svalarheima? And that was the basis for my somewhat lame joke, as he couldn't spell Svalarheima?
GrimDork wrote: Oh crap I hadn't realized event sign ups were live, and here I meant to be ahead of the game this year. I might have to do that.
You need to get on that ASAP. That stuff sells fast. It may have already sold out.
New fusiliers at GenCon, I'd pencil those in for a June or July release then. Will Angel be singing again?
So, that is how to get a rise out of Alpharius. I suspected as much. Just remember, even the mighty Jotums in partial cover needs to fear the humble crit. But it needs to fear the Pan-O Mechanic even more. XD
I wouldn't pencil them in for a June/July release actually.
It might sound strange but GenCon usually is where Corvus Belli presells some kind of "Big Deal" boxed set that then gets released later on in the year.
Traditionally it has been a TAG, but this year it might just be the Fusiliers...especially if the Fusiliers are a bit more multipart, which is something they hinted at.
Ah, but the Fusiliers will need to have been in production in order for Angel to have enough for the painting seminar. He had 42(?) Stephen Raos at Ficzone. So, that's why I say a June/July release, so that they are 'available' before GenCon. Remember, The July stuff won't be available in the US until end of August anyway. We always have that extra month delay.
Oh, no, my original guess was correct. The events are viewable, and most exist though certain categories will be late to show up... but the registration starts May 18th at noon eastern time. And that's on a Sunday so I'll be perfectly able to camp it. Just have to go about building my wishlist to increase my chances at the really popular events.
It will be fun to meet the CB folk and potentially be one of the people dropping knowledge bombs for once (though not so much i'll be going the 3rd and 4th days ), I just hope there aren't too many amazing things that I go home wishing I'd saved more
Barzam wrote: Hmm, that kind of makes me wonder if Yu Jing or Haqqislam will be getting some new TAGs in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised to see one for the Invincible Army.
Well Yu Jing has the hinted at Blue Wolf in its upcoming lineup (linked to the Huang Di sectorial) so that's one at least. No idea if the Invincible Army will have their own, perhaps they will pick up the Guija?
I wouldn't be surprised if they kept the Guijia. I think I'd rather see the Guijia go to ISS though and Invincible Army get a brand new one.
-Loki- wrote:
Barzam wrote: Hmm, that kind of makes me wonder if Yu Jing or Haqqislam will be getting some new TAGs in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised to see one for the Invincible Army.
Didn't theysay the Maghariba was it for Haqq? And that future 'TAG equivalents' would come from the Caliphate sectorial in the form of super soldiers?
Did they say that? Aw. I'd like to have seen what sort of TAGs they'd field. More non-humanoid tank-like ones would've been neat. TAGmen don't seem quite so interesting.
Popular theory going around is that the Caliphate sectorial will produce more super soldiers, which will be Haqqislams 'TAGs'. Given the fluff for the Maghariba says that they are Haqqislams only TAGs, it fits. I'm not sure if Corvus Belli actually said so, however, which is why I was sort of asking as well.
But then, Acheron Falls will advance the setting, with the Combined Army making a far more aggressive push into the Human Sphere, so I could see there being some justification for Haqqislam expanding its armoury of TAGs, even if only slightly.
Honestly, I'm not really feeling more mercs. They're great flavour added to QK, but at this point I just want to see more interesting actual Haqqislam units. If they were to add another TAG, I want to see it as a Haqqislam built thing.
They could even go as far as adding it as a Khanate unit. A junkyard TAG made by the gangs, something along the lines of the Gecko.
I like how Infinity is so pretty that even beat up salvaged old-model Nomad tags are still works of art compared to chunkier robot/suits from other systems
-Loki- wrote: Honestly, I'm not really feeling more mercs. They're great flavour added to QK, but at this point I just want to see more interesting actual Haqqislam units. If they were to add another TAG, I want to see it as a Haqqislam built thing.
They could even go as far as adding it as a Khanate unit. A junkyard TAG made by the gangs, something along the lines of the Gecko.
Maybe something like this?
Spoiler:
It's from an article run in Hobby Japan around '99. They're basically TAGs.
Miniatures of Human Sphere were released up to two years before the release of the book. This month we will be seeing a new Kazak unit. Having a few USAriadna minis in August doesn't sound crazy to me.
Forgive the 'noob' question, but is it CB's aim to increase the number of sectorials for all the factions? Looking into PanO, and I really like the look of the Svalarheima Nisses, but there's no sectorial for them as far as I can see.
Riquende wrote: Forgive the 'noob' question, but is it CB's aim to increase the number of sectorials for all the factions? Looking into PanO, and I really like the look of the Svalarheima Nisses, but there's no sectorial for them as far as I can see.
There is going to be.
The next campaign book, "Acheron Falls", has at least one Sectorial for each faction.
PanOceania: Varuna and Svalarheima
Yu Jing: Invincible Army and their Svalarheima equivalent faction.
Haqqislam: Caliphate and Khanate
Nomads: Tunguska
Combined Army: Evolved Intelligence sectorial
ALEPH: OSS
Ariadna: USAriadna and RussAriadna
Mercenary: White Star Consortium and Beyhan Resources Limited--potentially one more.
GrimDork wrote: I'm intrigued by this USAriadna, guess I should buy the old books sometime to read through the fluff.
Well, the fluff about Ariadna in the current books cover the generic situation in the planet, and then Caledonia and Merovingia have more in-depth content. I guess the book introducing the sectorials will have more fluff focused on that factions.
Kanluwen wrote: The next campaign book, "Acheron Falls", has at least one Sectorial for each faction.
Is it going to be a campaign book? I thought it would be just a (large-ish) expansion as Human Sphere.
Daba wrote: Would 3rd replace Human Sphere and have all the stats inside for units up until release?
Human Sphere is not being replaced.
It's really hard to explain. Basically, the units are going to be unchanged. It's just core rules mechanics that are going to change--and units that are not currently in Sectorials might get new additions.
Also Tohaa and ALEPH are not in the 3rd main rulebook.
The way I understand it from the Beasts Of War video with Carlos is anything Tohaa new and otherwise will be on the Infinity site. The reason being Tohaa was not in the 2nd Edition or Human sphere books. Campaign: Paradiso is where Tohaa were introduced, and the Paradiso book is fine and will not be rewritten.
C-Dub1977 wrote: The way I understand it from the Beasts Of War video with Carlos is anything Tohaa new and otherwise will be on the Infinity site. The reason being Tohaa was not in the 2nd Edition or Human sphere books. Campaign: Paradiso is where Tohaa were introduced, and the Paradiso book is fine and will not be rewritten.
Well the idea behind the books is they're telling an overall story. Each new book in the progression adds to the story. 3rd edition is a rewrite of the 2nd edition core rulebook. It doesn't change its place in the overall timeline. So putting Aleph and Tohaa in there doesn't work because Aleph didn't have armed forces until Human Spheres period (or at least humans didn't know about it), and Tohaa weren't known until the Paradiso campaign (though there was mention of them in Human Sphere as an indigenous race of Paradiso).
So since 3rd edition is only rewriting the core rulebook, Aleph and Tohaa just don't have a place in the book. However, Corvus Belli do want to release new stuff for them. Tohaa for example, are nearing the end of their possible releases and Acheron Falls is at least a year away I'd guess. They're not going to leave Tohaa players with no releases for that long.
edit - Angel looks completely different to how I'd pictured him. He looks... normal. I was expecting some jedi like master painter with brushes strapped to his utility belt and an old, wizened look to him as he dispenses painting tips.
Angel just posted today that he is repainting this Knight to "match the new blue of PanOceania"...so it looks like this one might be making its way into the Knights of Santiago box.
So, somebody from CB will be at the NOVA Open tournament here in Washington D.C. this year. Possibly Bostria or Interruptor. To quote the TO for the Infinity events at the NOVA, "They will be doing a seminar. Supposedly, it will be about 3rd edition and other new releases. In addition, they've confirmed that there will be a 'first in world' announcement made at Nova which they won't talk about at GenCon."
Also keep the 8th of November free for the Baltimore Brawl Infinity tournament at Games-n-Stuff. (It is news, right? So it would go here and not tournament discussions, since we're not actually discussing it?)
Anyway, the presence of the N3 quick starter rules there means to me that the booklets will also be at GenCon, perhaps along the the N3 rulebook? All signs indicate a release sooner rather than later, I think. C'mon August! get here sooner.
Psssh, I am some of those guys. Now go get a job ya hippie.
And definitely looking forward to the Baltimore Brawl (and hopefully seeing some of you hooligans there). Last Games and Stuff tourney I went to was the last one before they switched locations. Would certainly like to break out the Haqq and meet some people over some tournament games. (And lose horribly of course, an activity I specialize in).
I think the guy who won was playing... Neoterra? Yeah, cause they get the Garudas, which are no fun (when on the recieving end).
I was thinking that the patch is cool because it remembered me of some old school patches. The first thing I thought when I saw it was the Nostromo crew patch.
Holy balls, I'm not sure I'm willing to pay 60 bucks to paint a new Fusilier, even if it is with that Angel guy. I may just have to stick with trying to nab a ticket for one of the learn to play sessions. And the seminar, definitely that, if I can get in.
Yeah, it's got the top slot on my wishlist and I'll be manning that page with refresh watching the counter tick down, but there are only 40 slots and only a single instance of the event for all four days. If I get in, and nobody beats me to it (unlikely), I'll see if I can post up some info.
I know that these are their 
and get some info out about 
I hope the resculpts are awesome.
Anyway, he referred to it as a 'resculpt' of the 
'murica 
I suspected as much. Just remember, even the mighty Jotums in partial cover needs to fear the humble crit. 
