I doubt I'm gonna get into the seminar, even though I clicked the button the instant it became available and had it at top priority, I've got 3000 spots in the queueue to go and there are only 16 tickets left. Guess I'll have to check here for anyone to have posted the news.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Definitely go to the seminar, its a thing one must never miss if he is to go there.
Hey, hey, hey... Konstantinos... Hold it right there...
Of course you can recommend going to the Infinity Gencon Seminar. Yes... but remember that not all of us would receive a tribute hero miniature super troop wiht our name on it. I mean... it may happened to you... but it's not going to happen to everyone ok?
Since I usually just skim this thread looking for eye candy but usually don't read all the posts, any clue what are the release dates for these, if they are going to be released for all factions and what use will they have in game?
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: This looks excellent, but knowing who was making them I didn't expect anything less.
I'm hoping Ariadna gets choppers. Or some sort of Osprey thing.
We have a 'candidate' for the Ariadna "dropship" (gunship is more appropriate), its in the concept art queue at the moment.... despite being the lowest tech flyer I really like it.
“The walking Death’ was how the Antipode tribes dubbed the Spetsnaz after their first encounters during the First Offensive. ‘Those bastards’ was the word of choice of brigadier general Petersen when he referred to them in his report to the PanOceanian High Command during the Ariadnan Commercial Conflicts. Certainly, if one other unit can compare to the Veteran Kazaks in terms of effectiveness and prestige, it must be the Spetsnaz. And, yet, BG Petersen was precisely right: the Veterans are truly elite soldiers, but the Spetsnaz are truly elite bastards. Experts in parachute operations, close quarters combat, guerilla tactics, ambush and assault, the Ariadna Spetsnaz are heir to the long dirty war tradition of the Russian Special Forces, only filtered through the brutal sieves of Cossack discipline and the demands of a hostile environment such as planet Dawn. At the Dacha—familiar name for the Cossack Spetsnaz School—, the candidates, themselves hand-picked from amongst the best, are trained by the most merciless melon-fethers Ariadna can offer.
The things these aspirants are forced to do at that place beggar belief; things no sane person would perpetrate even if their life depended on it. The drill instructors of the Dacha not only strain the limits of human endurance and force of will, but instead flatly deny the existence of any limit whatsoever, and in doing so they force their trainees to go a mile further than the extra mile. The stress levels of the candidates are so high that the training ends with the so-called “Spetsnaz Day”, a riotous celebration in which the now-Spetsnaz are locked into the barrack perimeter with an endless supply of vodka. Twenty-four hours later, the area is gassed and the drill instructors go inside to help clean up and prepare for the next batch of recruits. It is rumored that the surrounding farms have a strict curfew that whole day in case one of these inebriated Spetsnaz should break free from the school.
The outcome of this vicious training is a group of highly-prepared commandos with an exceptional set of skills. These operatives are capable of chewing glass and killing a horse with their bare hands, and any other human would be hard-pressed to match their reaction times and killer instincts. All this soon became apparent to BG Petersen’s troops in the Commercial Conflicts. The PanOceanian advantages in terms of supplies, modern weaponry and high-tech equipment and armor should have given Petersen’s men the edge, but against the Spetsnaz those things barely bought them a few extra seconds of life. The brigadier general was right on the money: they are bastards alright. But the Antipodes weren’t wrong either…”
How fething awesome is that dropship?! I know that design has been around for a while as I had it as my desktop background some time ago, but good on CB for making use of some of the great Antenociti designs.
Also - I'm now starting another faction, thanks to that Spetsnaz
Pacific wrote: How fething awesome is that dropship?! I know that design has been around for a while as I had it as my desktop background some time ago, but good on CB for making use of some of the great Antenociti designs.
Also - I'm now starting another faction, thanks to that Spetsnaz
It's cool but not a must buy for me. Something about it just seems off or doesn't appeal to my inner thoughts of what a Yu'Jing dropship would look like.
And the Spetsnaz is making my friend look at starting the Russians again.
Pacific wrote: How fething awesome is that dropship?! I know that design has been around for a while as I had it as my desktop background some time ago, but good on CB for making use of some of the great Antenociti designs.
Also - I'm now starting another faction, thanks to that Spetsnaz
It's cool but not a must buy for me. Something about it just seems off or doesn't appeal to my inner thoughts of what a Yu'Jing dropship would look like.
I would never say 'must buy' or not before I have seen the miniature, but it certainly looks quite promising in terms of the dropship range coming out.
I think that was the 'Krokodil' dropship. Thank goodness for the name change. Spetsnaz, very nice. The watchtower has more of an outpost look to it. Hmm, will we start seeing a larger variety of terrain used, rather than the usual urban and pseudo-urban tables. I hope so. Warsenal makes some good stuff.
The new sniper rules, Ambusher and Marksman? Hurry up and let them out CB!
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: This looks excellent, but knowing who was making them I didn't expect anything less.
I'm hoping Ariadna gets choppers. Or some sort of Osprey thing.
Pacific wrote: I like him, I assume that at some point they are probably going to release a boxset of standard-armed guys?
Standard armed Spetsnaz? From the concepts we've seen I'd say nope. The concept for the Ambushed version featured Sniper Rifle and HMG as weapons. The paratrooper version had a rifle and a boarding shotgun. So I would guess 4 individual blisters.
-Loki- wrote: Something about the Spetznatz is not working for me. No idea what it is. Just doesn't look right at all.
Same here, I can't decide if it's that the weapons look really oversized to me, or that the whole model just seems to have some odder proportions than Infinity tends to.
Gun is way oversized. I have put 1/35 sized weapons on these miniatures and even they are smaller.
I mean just check out the ejection port on the gun. What's it shooting, .50 cal rounds?
Probably better to just get some modern 1/35 weapons if you want something recogniseable but not hideously oversized. The Ariadna guns are also way too blocky in design compared to what's out there at the moment.
www.live-resin.com makes some absolutely amazing 1/35 scale weapons and accessories. I am going to use a few of them for my Ariadna dudes (Scar-L for Merovingian's, HK416 for USAriadna, AK-74 Variants for Kossacks (Veterans/Tank Hunters might get the HK416 as well), and the Caledonians can get whatever.
Yeah, I'm not seeing it, looks fine to me. Its a sniper rifle, so its going to be pretty big. And he isn't wearing superheavy armor either, so despite being on the slightly bulky side he isn't huge. I think it looks right.
The supressor and marker tubes on the end might be throwing it off a little?
Infinity guns have always been outsize, much like 40K, it is part of the style. This particular example looks a bit more unusual because it is not an SF kind of weapon.
Kilkrazy wrote: Infinity guns have always been outsize, much like 40K, it is part of the style. This particular example looks a bit more unusual because it is not an SF kind of weapon.
I think 'always' is a bit misleading there. I know the first generation equipment was definitely oversized, but they've been slimming that down a LOT with the newer models. The weapons on my Barid and my Bounty Hunter are properly proportioned.
The feet jumped out at me too, as did the hands, but I kept looking back and really can't decide what it is that doesn't look right. There's definitely something off though.
Fenriswulf, if you're keen on current military weapons for Ariadna, Hasslefree do some SA80/L85s that might do for your Caledonian troops.
The shoulder pad of the Spetznazs seems to be the problem to me. It throws off the contour of the model. I'm guessing its just a poor angle is all. Something about the colour also throws me off. The blues and greens with the black face just don't do it for me.
sing your life wrote: I love the new Spetnaz, even though I have no love for the terrain painting.
I don't understand what you're trying to say there...
This here's the new painted terrain. something like that should have a lot more weathering [the full AFV model treatment, not a little bit of rust]. The NMM is terrible, not just a technique unsuited for terrain but also far too cartoony and unrealistic. the edge highlighting is really thick.In addition the shadows on the green are too strong, but I think that might be just the lighting.
The edge highlights are a bit much. The lack of weathering? Meh. An overused technique IMHO. Military units actually maintain their equipment. Rust and flaking paint and other 'weathering' is seen all to often these days. Besides Infinity is in the Cheerful Brightness. No room for rust.
- Suryat w/ combi rifle+LFT (surprisingly not a box - just single blister)
- O-12 Commissioner (bootleg)
- Nikaul sniper
The scout certainly needs a resculpt. The Hipster- Mutts? I must say I am intrigued. The O-12 Commissioneer is a bootleg? But, the concept art, not cheesecake. I though the face looked a bit Steven Seagal like.
Well if we were being realistic in terms of military structure. It would be spraypainted all one color and then have some random ID code stenciled on it.
Pacific wrote: I think the current Scout is really nice! I know it's not a new miniature but I think it still holds up well next to some of the current stuff
Yeah, but there's two other Scouts that don't hold up as well.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: Well if we were being realistic in terms of military structure. It would be spraypainted all one color and then have some random ID code stenciled on it.
And this would be bad? It could be a civilian civil defense tower too. In either case, anything more than a small amount of weathering would be out of place, IMHO.
I was referring to this mini, BTW. Not CB's finest effort.
Hrm, my comment seems to have caused some discussion.
I still don't know what I don't like about the Spetznaz, it's not the gun. I love me a massive calibre sniper rifle. It's not the proportions, they look fine to me. There's just something... off. If I were an Ariadna player I'd spend more time trying to figure out what it was so I could fix it, but as it is, it's just not a model that's for me.
-Loki- wrote: Hrm, my comment seems to have caused some discussion.
I still don't know what I don't like about the Spetznaz, it's not the gun. I love me a massive calibre sniper rifle. It's not the proportions, they look fine to me. There's just something... off. If I were an Ariadna player I'd spend more time trying to figure out what it was so I could fix it, but as it is, it's just not a model that's for me.
Perhaps that it is wearing a Pan-O blue beret? Maybe he stole it from Angus, the big bully.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Yes, but that colour and the striped tshirt is what defines them.
Not really.
Spetsnaz is a term that refers to a huge number of different groups. The berets and striped t-shirts are an attempt to tie the model with the Russian "45th Guards Spetsnaz Regiment", which in turn are part of the Russian Airborne Forces("Vozdushno-desantnye voyska" or "VDV").
In actuality, the berets and striped t-shirts are not worn for combat. Here's an image taken in 1999 of a member of the Spetsnaz GRU in Dagestan.
Spoiler:
But if you were to model the Kazak Spetsnaz in any way other than the stereotypical "berets and striped t-shirts", people might not get that "Oh it's not just another pseudofuture soldier".
-Loki- wrote: Something about the Spetznatz is not working for me. No idea what it is. Just doesn't look right at all.
Same here, I can't decide if it's that the weapons look really oversized to me, or that the whole model just seems to have some odder proportions than Infinity tends to.
I think it's where he's holding the weapon. Looks odd holding the clip rather than the main body.
I'm waiting for v3 before I take the dip into Infinity.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: Well if we were being realistic in terms of military structure. It would be spraypainted all one color and then have some random ID code stenciled on it.
And this would be bad? It could be a civilian civil defense tower too. In either case, anything more than a small amount of weathering would be out of place, IMHO.
I was referring to this mini, BTW. Not CB's finest effort.
-Loki- wrote: Something about the Spetznatz is not working for me. No idea what it is. Just doesn't look right at all.
Same here, I can't decide if it's that the weapons look really oversized to me, or that the whole model just seems to have some odder proportions than Infinity tends to.
I think it's where he's holding the weapon. Looks odd holding the clip rather than the main body.
I'm waiting for v3 before I take the dip into Infinity.
Its actually not uncommon. My buddy shoots that way when doing close work, and I've seen a lot of others at the range doing it. I still hold it forward though.
AFAIK that's more a matter of holding the magwell than the mag though, isn't it? I'd imagine that weapon as sculpted (magwell flush with rest of the lower) doesn't really allow for that.
The concept art for the Seraph is damn hot. With those 'wings' it should totally be a drop troop.
It -might- be what makes me make a Knight list. That and the Equestrian Knight of the Holy Order of the Sepulchre, (which I refuse to shorten because I love that ridiculous name).
I like the new boarding shotgun being short. After all, its supposed to be used in BOARDING actions, where corridors and rooms would favor smaller weapons for their size.
Those Santiagos are... alright. Can't say I like them even nearly as much as the PanO and YJ armor units.
Let us begin more wild speculation about missions involving Zero-G in the near future. I for one am utterly drooling at the idea, and will be adapting my boarding-action rules to include EVA. It would be pretty damned cool if zero-G troops could use entire areas of the board that regular troops just can't.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: Well if we were being realistic in terms of military structure. It would be spraypainted all one color and then have some random ID code stenciled on it.
And this would be bad? It could be a civilian civil defense tower too. In either case, anything more than a small amount of weathering would be out of place, IMHO.
I was referring to this mini, BTW. Not CB's finest effort.
I like that model.
De gustibus non est disputandum. Buy it now, before it goes out of production.
Hmmm, those Santiagos. For some reason I was hoping that they would look quite different from all the other knights*, although I knew better. Still, very nice minis. Saving the Interventors and Fast Pandas for last it seems.
*Given their specialization. Better ZeroG rules would be nice. I'd have to get the Sekban for that... missed out on the mini market sale. Man that stuff sold fast. A good sign?
For me, what makes the new Spetsnaz look a bit odd is a combination of the chunky legs (he's like a HI from the knees down) and the odd pose with the rifle. It feels like it should be held lower, at waist level, if he's holding it at rest.. or higher, if he was aiming and he lowered it just a bit while distracted by something else.
I'll buy it anyway of course because my vanilla Ariadna needs more Kazak in it!
Edit: I wonder if the Ojotnik is going to be remodelled..
Thank god they didn´t change the weapon design on the Santiagos, I like them much better then the new Boltstyle (which is okay, but imho departs too much from its predecessor). Looks like I´ll get this box some time in the future.
Despite the fact that the new Santiago Knights are just arm swaps of the existing figures (with additional sword scabbards), I'm finding that I really like them. I might have to grab that set eventually.
Bolognesus wrote: Don't those buggers mainly live on spaceships, though? That wouldn't really work with a loose building or two.
Sure, but they also make their living doing things like mining and repair work planetside...
Not to mention that Zero-G terrain is a thing, so ship corridors would be welcome.
Wouldn't they use relatively nondescript stuff (like the MAS or sarissa buildings) for the first though? When they'd even build stuff for that themselves, rather than just temporarily leasing space or whatnot...
The ship corridors point - I agree! But it's also why I said a couple of buildings wouldn't work. It's a huge amount of design work for the manufacturer, and a buyer would pretty much have to build an entire table of the stuff.
Now I love the idea - but how many of us are actually, really, in a position to pull off that kind of thing? It's a niche terrain set, not really useful for every day-to-day game, even *within* infinity.
IMO we'd be lucky for the battlesystems stuff to turn out great (and I'm kicking myself for dropping that pledge, believe me!) - at least that's (somewhat) affordable, and stores away compactly, which is the biggest issue with sales potential for mdf ship corridor stuff.
Bolognesus wrote: Don't those buggers mainly live on spaceships, though? That wouldn't really work with a loose building or two.
Sure, but they also make their living doing things like mining and repair work planetside...
Not to mention that Zero-G terrain is a thing, so ship corridors would be welcome.
Wouldn't they use relatively nondescript stuff (like the MAS or sarissa buildings) for the first though? When they'd even build stuff for that themselves, rather than just temporarily leasing space or whatnot...
The ship corridors point - I agree! But it's also why I said a couple of buildings wouldn't work. It's a huge amount of design work for the manufacturer, and a buyer would pretty much have to build an entire table of the stuff.
Now I love the idea - but how many of us are actually, really, in a position to pull off that kind of thing? It's a niche terrain set, not really useful for every day-to-day game, even *within* infinity.
IMO we'd be lucky for the battlesystems stuff to turn out great (and I'm kicking myself for dropping that pledge, believe me!) - at least that's (somewhat) affordable, and stores away compactly, which is the biggest issue with sales potential for mdf ship corridor stuff.
The only reason it's "not really useful" is because people refuse to play against 0G terrain.
Nonsense. I'd be fine with it (if notified before list building etc).
The reason it's useless is that you need a table full of that gak to represent ship/space scenarios, and that's just a gaktonne of stuff both to buy and to store for an oddly specific scenario. Who the hell does that? Barring a few rare exceptions, that would be noone, really.
I'd much rather fill out what space I have for terrain with more versatile stuff.
All a set of dedicated ship terrain will do is look good in a webshop, where noone will then buy it because owning/storing sth like that is madness.
I'd imagine Nomad terrain would use a lot of prefabricated and utilitarian type buildings. Plus, aren't the interiors of the Nomad ships kind of like the SDF-1 from Macross (or other Macross class ships)? Bakunin sounds like it has a lot of slums, so just release some scuzzy shanty or prefab buildings and pack 'em all in close together. Boom! Nomad board.
Bolognesus wrote: Nonsense. I'd be fine with it (if notified before list building etc).
The reason it's useless is that you need a table full of that gak to represent ship/space scenarios, and that's just a gaktonne of stuff both to buy and to store for an oddly specific scenario. Who the hell does that? Barring a few rare exceptions, that would be noone, really.
I'd much rather fill out what space I have for terrain with more versatile stuff.
And that's where the big issue comes from. Everyone seems to be under the impression that in order to have a 0G game, it has to be the entire table.
0G zones can be worked into a table using standard terrain and some clever placement of 'voids' or things of that nature. You can even have it set up on a trigger mechanic for the table, with an objective that will vent the atmosphere/disable gravity on the table.
There are so many options that don't necessarily mean that people need to be aware beforehand. With the plethora of Multiterrain troops as well and the tax that gets paid for the "specialized" variants of terrain, it is ridiculous that people think they should be notified "Oh there are going to be 0G zones".
I do feel kinda weird when half my table is loose hab-buildings and the other half is 0G, though.
0G is not something you'd find on a planet's surface, so almost by definition you're either playing in/on a ship, or a (small!) space station.
That still requires corridors and stuff rather than residential buildings and loose containers.
Also, if my local meta started using it on a regular basis I'd be fine without prior notification; since we don't, however (always residential with a spot of forest/ruins around here, atm), suddenly including 0G terrain features without consulting your opponent is breaking an implicit agreement there.
Again, I'm *fine* with it, and I bet so are most players around here (the ariadna players might object a wee bit, I'd have to check ) - so quite the 0G-persecution complex already *anything* that makes a substantial difference and isn't normally used is something to gently notify an opponent of - that's just keeping it fun for everyone.
Nobody (around here at least) will actually refuse to play - but making sure everyone has at least reasonably accurate expectations for a game is just good sportsmanship.
Yeah, the available terrain for Infinity is absolutely ace. From the official terrain from the likes of MAS, customeeple, plastcraft, etc to the unofficial like Sarissa Precision, the available terrain that thematically fits the game that's also actually super affordable is really amazing.
I'm honestly prepared to drop the $250au on the kits needed to do the Bourak table from Ficzone, because plastcraft were nice enough to list the kits used.
Can't wait to see what else comes out of the terrain scene - I really want to see Tohaa and Combined Army terrain.
Tohaa have been in the Human Sphere systems for a while, just hiding. They've got to have been living somewhere.
Combined might be an invading army, but as said, they would be setting up forward installations. Shasvastii in particular as they set up colonies on every planet they invade.
Well, they're different partners who would make that. Antenociti would be the go-to for a Morat tank, but for curvy buildings pastcraft is probably the better fit.
I'm work-bocked, so I won't be able to check in out until tonight, which probably means I won't make it into the First One Hundred, but I'll give it a shot anyway - later!
I'm work-bocked, so I won't be able to check in out until tonight, which probably means I won't make it into the First One Hundred, but I'll give it a shot anyway - later!
Their accepting a 100 from the first batch of applications not the first 100 applications so you can do it when you get home. Thats what i'll be doing. Need to submit a picture of myself where i don't look like a criminal lol
I'm work-bocked, so I won't be able to check in out until tonight, which probably means I won't make it into the First One Hundred, but I'll give it a shot anyway - later!
Their accepting a 100 from the first batch of applications not the first 100 applications so you can do it when you get home. Thats what i'll be doing. Need to submit a picture of myself where i don't look like a criminal lol
So what it seems like is that Warcors seems to be a volunteer program like what Privateer Press has for their Press Gangers and Wyrd with their Henchmen. Personally I think this might be a good idea to help get more people into the game in my opinion if it is successful in trying to have a set person being able to do demo games and such.
Absolutely fething bad-ass. Love of all of those, the Tunguska especially although God-knows how I am going to paint them as the girl in particular looks tiny.
The 0-12 guy reminds me of a boss from a 16-bit side-scrolling beat-em-up for some reason !
Kan - verdict? Can't decide whether you would like the Tunguska/Pandas or are offended by their cuteness?
I was hoping the O-12 Commissioner would be of the O-12 faction instead of Bootleg.
Sort of like the Tohaa Diplomatic Delegate.
I think he will probably find a place in the 0-12 faction when it comes out. Several of the bootlegs, like the Mag Pilot, are already available for the armies. (Am I allowed to call them armies still? )
Pacific wrote: Absolutely fething bad-ass. Love of all of those, the Tunguska especially although God-knows how I am going to paint them as the girl in particular looks tiny.
The 0-12 guy reminds me of a boss from a 16-bit side-scrolling beat-em-up for some reason !
Kan - verdict? Can't decide whether you would like the Tunguska/Pandas or are offended by their cuteness?
I hate you now. Your mentionning of old games made me think of painting like the Giovanni from the Pokémon series, and now I'll have to....
Pacific wrote: Absolutely fething bad-ass. Love of all of those, the Tunguska especially although God-knows how I am going to paint them as the girl in particular looks tiny.
The 0-12 guy reminds me of a boss from a 16-bit side-scrolling beat-em-up for some reason !
Kan - verdict? Can't decide whether you would like the Tunguska/Pandas or are offended by their cuteness?
I hate you now. Your mentionning of old games made me think of painting like the Giovanni from the Pokémon series, and now I'll have to....
...you'll have to paint up a yellow Spotbot or something to go with him.
I'm work-bocked, so I won't be able to check in out until tonight, which probably means I won't make it into the First One Hundred, but I'll give it a shot anyway - later!
Interventors are amazing. Much more impressed with the Spetznazs now that we have different angles. But the high commissioner... big hands, big head, big feet... is he a Cadian?
The Fast Pandas are so GD cool. If you're going to make weird cyber-animals, THAT's the way to do it. So much better than the new Xondcat!
The Raiden's pretty ace too. Too bad it's not that great in-game. Real camo would have been worth a couple extra points. As-is I'd rather take something that'll survive after taking its first shot.
Nothing really for me this month, but I like the O-12 commissioner. It might find its way into my collection as a civilian.
I think the most interesting part of this release is a single bootleg. People were assuming future bootleg releases would be big news releases that took entire months to themselves, going on how the first bootleg release went. I like this precedent more. Throw in a bootleg here and there amongst normal releases.
I like the new male interventors a lot, but kinda miss the old female one (in a surprise to exactly nobody). CB mentioned they redesigned them because they didn't fit into the "theme" of Nomads, which I find ridiculous as they were one of the earliest models and as such defined the theme. Not that Nomads even need a cohesive look, kinda seems like the antithesis of Nomads.
Can't wait for the Raiden Seibutai to come out and I'm really liking the O12 commissioner a lot. Very glad he isn't in a Dire Foes pack, too many of those packs I like 1 of 3 or 2 of 3 models and hate/don'tcare/don'tneed the other(s).
Haven't seen this posted anywhere, so here goes. June releases from O-12 podcast:
- Ariadna scout blister
- Ghazi Muttawi'ah box
- Suryat w/ combi rifle+LFT (surprisingly not a box - just single blister)
- O-12 Commissioner (bootleg)
- Nikaul sniper
Bostria said they were pushed back to June at the start of the year.
The oddity here is the O-12 Commissioner was released in May, so something else will be in that spot.
I haven't been a very big fan of the existing Tunguska models. But, these new Interventors may make me change my mind about them. The new design does look really nice, and I do like that new Boarding Shotgun with the foregrip.
That Tunguskan female hacker miniature is an absolute beaut, I just can't get over the delicacy of the sculpt.
That right there is why I quit Games Workshop miniatures for Corvus Belli. Realistic proportions that can be delicate where needed, not ham-hands and bobble-heads. CB still keeps things practical to point and play with though. They've gotten pretty good at it with the last few years' miniatures (the older stuff had swords etc that could get a little bendy).
Kazak Spetznazs / Ariadna. New troop profile with new skills like “Marksmanship L2″ and “Ambushed Camouflage” that will make the difference in the table. Blister of 1 miniature.
That Tunguskan female hacker miniature is an absolute beaut, I just can't get over the delicacy of the sculpt.
That right there is why I quit Games Workshop miniatures for Corvus Belli. Realistic proportions that can be delicate where needed, not ham-hands and bobble-heads. CB still keeps things practical to point and play with though. They've gotten pretty good at it with the last few years' miniatures (the older stuff had swords etc that could get a little bendy).
The old female Interventor was one of CB's first models and it was amazing even to today's standards.
Kazak Spetznazs / Ariadna. New troop profile with new skills like “Marksmanship L2″ and “Ambushed Camouflage” that will make the difference in the table. Blister of 1 miniature.
So anyone see this?
Ambush Camouflage was mentioned with the Tohaa Nikaul as well. First I've heard of Marksmanship L2 though.
Micky wrote: Preview of what's to come in 3E presumably...
Yeah. So far we've seen or heard about 3 (technically 4) new rules from 3rd edition. Bioimmunity (Tarik and Bolts), and now Ambush Camouflage and Marksman L2. Which also implies a Marksman L1.
Just little hints like this are making me hungry for N3. I wonder if all snipers are going to have profiles updated to include some level of Marksman?
Barzam wrote: I have a suspicion that Ambush Camo is probably camo that can only be used once. Once a unit is revealed, it's probably permanently revealed.
That exists already as Limited Camouflage, so it must mean something else.
Maybe the Marksmanship means the the target cannot take the +3 arm in cover.
Barzam wrote: I have a suspicion that Ambush Camo is probably camo that can only be used once. Once a unit is revealed, it's probably permanently revealed.
That exists already as Limited Camouflage, so it must mean something else.
Maybe the Marksmanship means the the target cannot take the +3 arm in cover.
But, in 3rd Edition, perhaps the names have changed? it would be essentially the same thing, yes, but all the terminology might change. There certainly needs to be a least a little streamlining of the rules as they stand.
Barzam wrote: I have a suspicion that Ambush Camo is probably camo that can only be used once. Once a unit is revealed, it's probably permanently revealed.
That exists already as Limited Camouflage, so it must mean something else.
Maybe the Marksmanship means the the target cannot take the +3 arm in cover.
But, in 3rd Edition, perhaps the names have changed? it would be essentially the same thing, yes, but all the terminology might change. There certainly needs to be a least a little streamlining of the rules as they stand.
There's a difference between streamlining and renaming for the sake of it.
We'll see when the Spetznas hits the army builder/new units PDF. My bet is on something different to limited camo.
Maybe something that allows them to make a combat camo attack but not reveal themselves, if meeting a certain limitation? Maybe if they decide to fire at B1 for their combat camo attack, they stay hidden. Or maybe, as they're ambushing, they can't move while hidden? If they try any sort of movement, they're automatically revealed?
Randomly renaming skills seems very unlikely, especially as it's been mentioned for two new units but not for all the existing units with Limited Camo.
Worth mentioning that Doremicom posted the skinny on "Marksmanship"...
The Skinny - What is the Marksmanship Skill?
While the exact wording of the skill will have to wait for the Corvus Belli official post, this is the paraphrased version of the rule:
Marksmanship Level 1
A model with this special skill will treat all BS weapons with a damage rating as though they are firing Shock Ammunition.
The Shock Special Ammunition provided by Marksmanship can be combined with any other special ammunition loaded by the BS Weapon. However, this special skill cannot be applied to non-leathal weapons (i.e. smoke grenade launchers, flash pulse, etc).
This special skill does not require an order or short skill to prepare nor does it require a successful skill roll to activate. It is automatic.
Marksmanship Level 2
When a model with Marksmanship level 2 declares a BS Attack (regardless of the weapon being lethal), the model can ignore the -3 modification to their BS Attribute when the opponent is behind partial cover.
Like Marksmanship Level 1, it does not require an order or short skill to prepare and it does not require a successful skill roll to activate. It is automatic.
For Lethal weapons, I believe that it stacks with Marksmanship Level 1.
Maybe there will be a tremendous buff to Doctors in order to justify taking them (maybe no more SWC?) and thus more ready access to Shock Ammunition (and equivalents) will be necessary to compensate?
Aleph doesn't like all this Marksmanship stuff... :-(
Killionaire wrote: I suspect Marksmanship 2 is mostly going to be an Ariadna thing, to give them a bone for not having MSV2 or anybody with BS over 13.
That's fine then, really.
Agree... I'm also understanding it that way. Instead of visors they have this skill... wich is better IMHO.
Killionaire wrote: I suspect Marksmanship 2 is mostly going to be an Ariadna thing, to give them a bone for not having MSV2 or anybody with BS over 13.
That's fine then, really.
Marksmanship 2? Maybe.
Marksmanship in general, I don't know. I'm kind of thinking this might be how Corvus Belli plans on buffing standard sniper rifle models across all factions.
We'll see about Bipandra's issues soon enough. She'd be fine at 0 SWC. As is, the mini is a fine enough trauma doc. I like it better than the standard one.
APRIL (immediately)
Old Kum Boxed sets AND Izzat Beg due to new Kum
Old Morat Vanguard due to new Morat
MAY 31
Swiss Guard (ML)
Aquila Guard (MULTI)
Hexas (Spitfire)
Neoterra Bolts blister
All due to Neoterra starter
JUNE
Tomcats (Combi)
Tomcats (Engineer)
All due to Tomcats boxed set
AUGUST 31st
Both Knights of Santiago 2x Blisters discontinued
Due to Knights of Santiago boxed set
Additionally:
Interventor male discontinued.
Ultimately, nothing too surprising considering they're just discontinuing resculpted models.
Izzat Beg is probably the only surprise, but it's almost expected that he'd get a reculpt sometime after the Kum.
Nothing I'm particularly going to miss, aside from the old style Morats. I almost wish they'd rename them as something else. They're really not bad figures.
So people worried about the 'hipster' Ghazi needn't worry. From the official boards, rumour is the sculptor is using a different person as inspiration for - I'm assuming one of - the females in the box. Kat Dennings.
The Marksman and Ambush Camo rules were more clearly revealed in one of the threads on the official forums.
Marksman L1: All BS attacks count as Shock ammo.
Marksman L2: As L1, + ignore penalty to BS from cover.
Marksman L3: As L2, + ignore ARM bonus from cover.
Ambush Camo: Can deploy as Camo marker. May also deploy an additional, empty, Camo marker within Zone of Control.
Ambush Camo is interesting. I'm assuming, by that wording, it is like Limited Camo, in that you can't re-camo? Plus, is the second marker G-Synced for movement purposes?
-Loki- wrote: Ambush Camo is interesting. I'm assuming, by that wording, it is like Limited Camo, in that you can't re-camo? Plus, is the second marker G-Synced for movement purposes?
I may have mis-paraphrased it. The original post didn't mention actually deploying the Spetsnaz as Camo, just the extra marker. A latter post said "Yes, ambush acts as camo but you deploy a second decoy camo marker within the spetznas's zoc" although it's not clear as to which kind of camo it acts as. It's all second hand (to me) and originates from a "mayacast" which I take to be a semi-official podcast.
Savnock wrote: Ambush Camo... like Minelayer but not as good. Hmmm. Let's hope they add it retroactively to some of the Limited Camo troops, at least.
Depends on the minelayer. Not all minelayers have camo, but all ambushers get 2 tokens. In fact, it can fool people into thinking it is a camo minelayer.
Both rules sound pretty neat to me. I do think it might make more sense for his freebie camo marker to have to sit still, at least if his camo is of a more limited variety. Some kind of decoy he set up, rather than a projection of heat shimmers and signal interference. If he had TO camo for some reason, then it would make more sense to me? Though I'm an untested n00b looking in the window
Perhaps the learn-to-play thing at Gencon will be eye-opening.
-Loki- wrote: So people worried about the 'hipster' Ghazi needn't worry. From the official boards, rumour is the sculptor is using a different person as inspiration for - I'm assuming one of - the females in the box. Kat Dennings.
Which will be interesting for line of sight.
Kat Dennings does not strike me as properly scaled for Infinity. But I would never in my life tell her that.
And I was totally looking forward to hipster mutt.
Pacific wrote: Wow, which miniature is based on Kat Dennings?!
Just looked her up on Google images and now definitely want to know more!
She is certainly a very attractive woman.
*cough*
In regards to Ambush and deploying the markers? Maybe it is more like a combination of Limited Camo and Holoprojector. Where you have two guys deployed but only one is really there.
GrimDork wrote: That sounds like a really nice "buy more minis" hook of a rule, but given how few you need for Infinity it's allowable
The great thing about Holoprojector is that you just use 2 tokens and the actual mini. And I very rarely make the one represented by the mini the real one.
The downside of course is having to find three credible positions of cover to shoot from. Otherwise it makes the enemy's choice of who to react to a bit obvious.
It does work a hell of a lot better on a table with lots of waist/shoulder high scatter terrain as opposed to just loads of hab blocks the way terrain seems to be set up mostly in a lot of places.
IME it's mostly good for just an order or two moving up without getting the actual dude shot at as much (and psychological effect helps a lot there, as opposed to just the decreased probability of getting hit from the rule) so as to get that nice, juicy BS 15 spitfire into position, for example. it helps a lot when all you *want* to do is move-move to get out of the lose-lose proposition of facing off against a sniper outside your optimal range band, without having a nice hard counter to that sniper at hand.
-Loki- wrote: So people worried about the 'hipster' Ghazi needn't worry. From the official boards, rumour is the sculptor is using a different person as inspiration for - I'm assuming one of - the females in the box. Kat Dennings.
Which will be interesting for line of sight.
Kat Dennings does not strike me as properly scaled for Infinity. But I would never in my life tell her that.
And I was totally looking forward to hipster mutt.
The problem with the concept is the glasses. In the concept they're corrective lenses. When sculpting that, if you sculpt the lenses, they can't be transparent. If people try to paint them as corrective lenses, it just looks like their eyes are on the glasses. If they paint them tinted like sunglasses, you get a completely different look.
The other way is to sculpt just the frames, but that makes painting the skin and eye inside the frames pretty difficult, and still doesn't look right without lenses.
-Loki- wrote: So people worried about the 'hipster' Ghazi needn't worry. From the official boards, rumour is the sculptor is using a different person as inspiration for - I'm assuming one of - the females in the box. Kat Dennings.
Which will be interesting for line of sight.
Kat Dennings does not strike me as properly scaled for Infinity. But I would never in my life tell her that.
And I was totally looking forward to hipster mutt.
To be fair, if it follows standard unit box format, there will be 2 females, and 2 males, as we get 2 duplicate bodies, and going by the latest boxes, 4 separate heads. So there's still a chance to get the fashion blogger Ghazi head. In fact, that would make a pretty good pair of heads.
One thing mentioned in the Mayacast podcast and missed by people reporting the news, is that there is a rumoured new mission, where the O-12 High Commissioner would act as a High Value Target.
I'm just getting into Infinity and I'm like "Where has this been all my life."
I'm playing Nomads and apparently this is a great time to get into them.
Definitely, great time with the new launches coming out (not least the Gecko) plus re-imaginings of some of CB's earlier releases.
At present I have a 'When animals attack' style Nomad list (consisting of Uberfallkommando, Der Morlock Gruppe, Daktari doctor and Bran De Castro) - but the 'Corregidor' zero-G/EVA-style force is calling to me!
Pacific wrote: Definitely, great time with the new launches coming out (not least the Gecko) plus re-imaginings of some of CB's earlier releases.
At present I have a 'When animals attack' style Nomad list (consisting of Uberfallkommando, Der Morlock Gruppe, Daktari doctor and Bran De Castro) - but the 'Corregidor' zero-G/EVA-style force is calling to me!
Yeah I'm trying to figure out how to make a Tomcat-heavy "Super Awesome Rescue Team" Corregidor list work.. the new Tomcat box, Kowalsky, Lupe Balboa and a Gecko. Too bad none of those are Lieutenant choices
O-12 is essentially the "United Nations"; an administrative body with some power but that power only exists when recognized by the other elements of the Human Sphere.
If, say, O-12 decides to start investigating the PanOceania military industry and has the full support of Yu Jing and the Haqqislam nation...then PanO can't really do too much except make a fuss about how their secrets need to remain theirs.
Pacific wrote: Definitely, great time with the new launches coming out (not least the Gecko) plus re-imaginings of some of CB's earlier releases.
At present I have a 'When animals attack' style Nomad list (consisting of Uberfallkommando, Der Morlock Gruppe, Daktari doctor and Bran De Castro) - but the 'Corregidor' zero-G/EVA-style force is calling to me!
Yeah I'm trying to figure out how to make a Tomcat-heavy "Super Awesome Rescue Team" Corregidor list work.. the new Tomcat box, Kowalsky, Lupe Balboa and a Gecko. Too bad none of those are Lieutenant choices
Sadly it won't work too well unless they revise the Tomcat profiles and/or they release the Boarding Shotgun+E/Mitter profile.
I will never for the life of me understand why Tomcats, Mobile Brigada, Intruders, and Hellcats are all such high AVA in the Corregidor Sectorial.
With that said remember that Wildcats are Multiterrain if you're going for the whole "Zero-G" thing...
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: I would very much like a new Mobile Brigada that doesn't look like he just stepped in something.
Though, 'OOPS I DROPPED MY PANZERFAUST!" Minuteman still holds my want for 'Model that drastically needs a resculpt'.
MinuteWoman.
A commonly made mistake. Yeah, with Parkour Wulver gone (Always thought he was just mis-based. Supposed to have been leaning-against-the-wall Wulver) This one must go. But CB has big plans for the USAriadnans, so I suspect it may be sooner than we think.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: I would very much like a new Mobile Brigada that doesn't look like he just stepped in something.
Though, 'OOPS I DROPPED MY PANZERFAUST!" Minuteman still holds my want for 'Model that drastically needs a resculpt'.
MinuteWoman.
A commonly made mistake. Yeah, with Parkour Wulver gone (Always thought he was just mis-based. Supposed to have been leaning-against-the-wall Wulver) This one must go. But CB has big plans for the USAriadnans, so I suspect it may be sooner than we think.
I'm pretty sure that regardless of gender, they're still called Minutemen. Its a unit after all.
Red Harvest wrote: True, but many do not realize the mini is female. For obvious reasons.
I thought the bare midriff was a dead giveaway.
And it's about time there was another Brigada. Wasn't there a third weapon profile? Too bad I just finished painting mine. Now this one's going to be revealed and Giraldez is going to make me feel bad about my scheme again.
O-12 is essentially the "United Nations"; an administrative body with some power but that power only exists when recognized by the other elements of the Human Sphere.
If, say, O-12 decides to start investigating the PanOceania military industry and has the full support of Yu Jing and the Haqqislam nation...then PanO can't really do too much except make a fuss about how their secrets need to remain theirs.
Essentially O-12 is, unlike UN who is an administrative body with no real power and has to do what you described, an administrative body with enough power to push its policies forward, beyond its standing army who is unaligned, they have the Circulars to push too.
They are "dependent" on the superpowers for funding, but they are also dependent on them for moving around the majority of their commercial fleets, of course they are fully familiar with the political scene (that happens every day in their own planet) and can use it as efficiently or more than their fighting arm.
As a flavor curiosity, what is the difference and relation between O-12 and ALEPH. I know Aleph is the benevolent (if you ask anyone but Nomads) AI that controls much of the commerce and traffic and makes sure things run smoothly... also Aleph fights the Combined Army threat...
Alpeh recieves PanO and YuJing funding while being opposed by the Nomads.
O-12 recieves PanO, YuJing, and Haqqislam support and/or funding and recognizes the Nomads and Ariadna as sovereign entities.
What do Aleph and O-12 think of one another? Do Aleph's combat divisions answer to the O-12?
Why couldn't this O-12 Commissioner dudeman just have been a more 'public' Aleph sectorial? The difference between O-12/Aleph couldn't be that much more different than QK/Khanates or maybe even JSA/Chinese.
PS has that pretty much covered, but I'd add that in theory ALEPH wasn't supposed to have any kind of army of it's own (I think this was even covered by treaty) but when the Combined Army turned up ALEPH just happened to be able to create a large artificial army from nowhere...
IJW wrote: PS has that pretty much covered, but I'd add that in theory ALEPH wasn't supposed to have any kind of army of it's own (I think this was even covered by treaty) but when the Combined Army turned up ALEPH just happened to be able to create a large artificial army from nowhere...
Hah! That sounds awfully familiar.. just you wait until ALEPH gives Order 66..
The Interventors have all retained their Hacking Device Plus. There are six profiles, but essentially it's really three profiles and the option to take a Fast Panda. Fast Pandas are Movement 20 and have Repeaters. Didn't see an AVA listed.
Kazak Spetsnaz are AVA 2 and there are four profiles. Two are the "Ambushed Camouflage" profiles and two are CH: Mimetism with AD: Parachutist. All the profiles are coming with Marksmanship L2 and Martial Arts L2.
Ah yes, so they are. They are a little more expensive than I was expecting so I can't swap out my Zouaves HMG and 2x Yuan Yuan for two Spetsnaz like I was hoping.. but I'll make room for them somehow!
Whuh, yup that's a new spelling.
And yeah, those ORCs look rubbish compared to most of the range - god knows they need a refresh more than the fusiliers!
OMG Becky! those Spetznas will kick some ass. I believe I'll have at least 2, if not more models for their different profiles.
AD: Parachuting Boarding shotgun with Shock Ammo? That ignores Cover for the AP rounds? Yes Please.
ski2060 wrote: OMG Becky! those Spetznas will kick some ass. I believe I'll have at least 2, if not more models for their different profiles.
AD: Parachuting Boarding shotgun with Shock Ammo? That ignores Cover for the AP rounds? Yes Please.
I got this wrong initially as well when i read it...., but just a correction: the marksmen L2 only ignores the 'to hit' modifer (i.e. the -3 to BS) it does not ignore the +3 ARM bonus for being in cover. Hence you enemy still gets in +3 ARM bonus, just no negative to the spetz for shooting.
No matter how you slice it though, the Spetz is a very powerful profile! for such lil point cost and SWC... it's crazy, not sure what CB was going for... as someone may already have pointed out, why oh why make a 'sniper' model when everyone will roll with the HMG for only 4 points more.
^^^Hey everybody's favorite Shock Absorbers. Saludos y Bienvenido, Koni.
Going to be interesting to try that Marksmanship ability. It seems like it will have more impact than the Ambusher ability. Although really, just what Ariadna needed, More Camo markers on the table
ski2060 wrote: OMG Becky! those Spetznas will kick some ass.
Dat Spetzn-aaaaaazzzz...
NeonPhoenix wrote:No matter how you slice it though, the Spetz is a very powerful profile! for such lil point cost and SWC... it's crazy, not sure what CB was going for... as someone may already have pointed out, why oh why make a 'sniper' model when everyone will roll with the HMG for only 4 points more.
A lot of people hope that HMGs get slightly debuffed in 3rd. Like maybe a lower B value or an extended lower-accuracy short range (+0 out to 12" instead of 8", or even a -3 at short range). That would make snipers more useful and the longer-range game more interesting. Snipers and MLs -should- be more accuracy than HMGs at long range, if you're trying to simulate reality.
I can agree with that. I definitely enjoy how violent HMG's are, and it's the first time I've played a game where the HMG's feel as deadly as they should be...
...I'm looking at you every first person shooter ever.
But dat range is rough. I do like Snipers though... they feel adequately dangerous, and the exceptional range makes them even more worthwhile in some cases.
I'm thinking Spetz with Boarding Shotguns are going to be awesome though. But I have a bias for Boarding Shotguns.
Yeah, I knew about the Lvl 2 Marksman not negating cover ARM bonus.
But, ignoring cover to hit with your Shock ammo AP boarding shotgun is great. You have to hit your target in the first place in order to do damage, and negating that -3BS for cover will certainly help.
I've heard it bandied about on the forums that CB is going to be doing some weapon balancing in the new rulebook.
Shotguns for sure are getting come range changes. Maybe they're going to be doing some tinkering with HMG's and Snipers also?
Range band changes, accuracy changes, maybe rule changes?
I'd love to see a sniper rule where if they only fire one shot in the active turn while camo, it doesn't reveal their position. I mean, that's what camoflaged snipers do, by definition! They hide, and take single shots to not give their position away!
No, they're supposed to be some uber bad asses in CQB fighting per their fluff posted recently.
I don't think I'd give them a 20 though. Maybe an 18.
It must go along with their "stupid crazy do anything approach to kill you" mentality.
Yeah, but that's the same as the fluff posted for loads of units... none of who have CC20. CC17-19 is elite enough (the number that elite CC troops of the CC faction have)
CC20 is unique character level. Even though if it's not as effective thanks to lower MA skill and worse CC weapon, it still feels wrong.
I guess what it really means is that when you don't have the benefits of gene therapy, cybernetics or Alien DNA to make you some kind of close combat monster (with MA 3+) then you have to make up for it by being a bigger badass than the other guy.
Having CC 20 makes you the best of the worst, I guess, in an arena where the pros have MA 3. Of course, a Spetsnaz isn't going to be phased by someone with Natural Born Warrior too much.
Hopefully it is indicative of some kind of change to the CC stat for 3rd Edition. Because CC20 on a unit with MA2 and a CCW (why do they also have a knife?) is kind of bad. Especially a unit with access to the HMG for such a low SWC and overall cost (with super-special decoy camo as an option).
Overall, it seems like a pretty good deal. So the CC20 and extraneous close combat crap at least isn't throwing its game off. Camo attack plus the ability to ignore the cover mod (and apply the Shock ammo type against those NWI types without immunity) in shooting with access to that kind of firepower is definitely worth the price of admission.
The only downside I'm really seeing is that at only four points cheaper and no difference in SWC, there will never really be a reason to take the sniper version. Ever. But that is the problem of all profiles that can access both a vanilla sniper and the HMG. A four point cost difference for a bit of extra range and half the shots on the active turn is just a bad deal. Ariadna stuff is cheap, so finding four points somewhere isn't a difficult exercise. But I'm hoping these are only indicative of their pricing under the current rules and that 3rd Edition will give folks a reason to take a sniper rifle on a profile like this.
The parachutist profiles are interesting enough I guess. Probably wont see use in vanilla where you can grab paras with heavy weapons, but knowing that the Kazak list will have some forward deployers is nice. So they will have a bit of use there at least.
The problem with making changes to the sniper rifle or HMG to make the choice a bit tougher is it can't be in the points values. If they do it by making the HMG more expensive or the Sniper Rifle cheaper, we're going to be getting a lot of new profile updates via PDF, which is going to make the current situation of how spread out the profiles are even worse.
So if it's going to be done, we're looking at stat changes, as they can simply throw the new weapon profiles in the 3rd edition book and call it a day. Considering they said they're be tweaking some weapon range bands in 3rd edition, this could be their attempt to make sniper rifles a more interesting choice compared to the HMG.
Sniper rifles that have positive mods out to 48" would be a good start. Making HMGs +0 out to 12" might also be good. While high ROF might be good, at closer ranges you have to move the weapon around more, which is hard with a big, heavy HMG.
I'm sorry to disappoint. Most of it is still in the conceptual phase and I do not plan to do any conversions. I'm not claiming the models have pure resemblance, just something I can see working.
Either a Seraph or Toni to finish the list. There was no TAG in Dead Space, but anime I'm watching, Sidonia no Kishi has some rather interesting vibe to it. The Mechs and their battles are rather nicely done.
Maybe I could bug someone for Mantic Deadzone zombies, for the base. Maybe a body part covered in snow. I might be in minority but I enjoyed all Dead Space games, well, maybe the final DLC was an exception.
My thought too. It would be interesting if they took this opportunity to put the new vanilla Nomad and PanO starters in a 2 player set (again to reduce SKUs).
The main issue I see with a 2 player starter for Infinity is terrain. While it's a concern for any wargame, Infinity requires a lot of it. If someone doesn't know this when jumping into a starter box with a friend, they're going to have a miserable time playing the game with little terrain. Even starter vs starter needs pretty dense terrain on a 4x4 board.
This can be avoided with flat packed cardstock or very simple HDF terrain, the way Dropzone Commander put a 4x4 city mat and 10 buildings in the starter box. They've got plenty of partners who could produce some simple flat pack HDF buildings. Mini rulebook, 2 starters that are semi balanced against each other, mini rulebook with the core rules, a few D20's and a ruler of some kind, some nice acrylic templates, printed sheets of cutout tokens, and some flat packed HDF or cardstock buildings. Done.
There's definitely a contingent of gamers out there who have looked at an easy jump in point for Infinity but have turned away due to the perceived complexity of just what you need to play.
Not to hop on the baseless hype train, but a starter featuring card terrain would definitely be the kind of thing that gets my money. It is surprising how much terrain can be packed in to one box if you go that route (the 2nd Edition 40k box contains easily enough terrain to cover a smallish table). That said, the way they envision terrain density (at least according to previous looks at Spanish tourney tables) means that they may include less terrain than we would assume (since North American boards tend to get pretty dense with tons of scatter terrain).
And I do agree about the sniper rifle and the HMG. The weapons fill roles with a lot of overlap and the sniper rifle (MULTI included) lacks a concrete role outside of direct threat projection. The problem is mostly that the HMG is just such a dominant direct threat. It has range, it has burst, it has high damage. Even on ARO it is a tangible threat against anything equipped with a shorter-ranged weapon unless they close the distance.
Special ammo sniper weapons have a pseudo-niche in providing a good ARO option. But they tend to be costed high for an attack that can likely be overwhelmed by a smart player (mostly, they only become a real threat in ARO when put inside a link team).
One of them needs some role revision. Though even then, I think the HMG could stand an SWC bump, but giving the sniper rifle a role that isn't so niche (ARO link team direct fire defense weapon... so long as it has special ammo) would be a big priority.
I still think range band changes could fix a lot of the overlap. They're the same damage, very, very similar range bands. But the HMG has 2 more burst without a significant enough points bump, considering how important burst is.
Simply changing the range bands and BS modifiers to give them more distinct effective ranges would go a long way to fixing them.
Ronin_eX wrote: Not to hop on the baseless hype train, but a starter featuring card terrain would definitely be the kind of thing that gets my money. It is surprising how much terrain can be packed in to one box if you go that route (the 2nd Edition 40k box contains easily enough terrain to cover a smallish table). That said, the way they envision terrain density (at least according to previous looks at Spanish tourney tables) means that they may include less terrain than we would assume (since North American boards tend to get pretty dense with tons of scatter terrain).
We've already got some companies (Warlord Games) packing MDF terrain into starter boxes, Corvus Belli could easily do the same.
Topo Solitario has been designing Infinity paper terrain for a long time, and some of it has been done in collaboration with CB. I think it would fairly easy for them to arrange someting and put some printed designs in a box. I think each iKube pdf includes 5 detachable buildings. For a starter game in a small area that should be enough.
The 7-Max Combat group idea doesn't really seem to make sense. I'm thinking they just did it that way since 7 gives you a good number to work with, without having 'too many'.
It does look like Terrain is included though, since the map picture isn't just a neat rectangle.
So it comes with Quickstart Rules and a... full rulebook? Or is that like a mission pack?
I'm calling it now. Pan-O force is lead by not-Elsa and the Nomad force let by not-Anna.
Also, this:
Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Edit: Looks like that's the QS rules (probably the same rules that are going to be in Ravage) combined with - possibly - new or revised profiles for whichever minis end up in the box. Plus dice, and possibly templates judging by the circular thing at the top of the printed map / mat. Oh, and a big box to put it all in, of course.
Erasoketa wrote: I was thinking that a starter box was a really long shot and I see this. I'm really surprised.
Likewise. Surprised.. but happy. Hopefully this won't be too far off £65..
I'd imagine $100 would be right around the ideal price point if they can manage it. Split forces with a buddy 50/50 on price or something. Would be pretty reasonable.
I might do that to get more terrain, give my buddy the PanO and I take the Nomads.
Yeah, there won't be much profit for CB if it's sold at that price.. but it's really about getting more people into the game and they can make their money back selling shiny TAGs to the new guys
I don't know. There were other alternatives. The two candidates would make rather classic "steal the corporate secrets" mission. But, we'll see.
I just want new line infantry.
Nomads and PanO are some of the most popular factions, so it makes sense.
Do you perhaps have official data chart to validate it? It's not that I don't believe you, as this was my thought as well. However I've based it on rather dated information when PanO were second on how well they sell (Aleph being the first as I recall). Nomads are very popular with my local players and unofficial surveys and traffic around various forums indicate the same trend, it becomes a problem of how much you're willing trust yours and other observations.
It can be smart business to sell a starter with one of the popular armies (so it's a worthwhile buy and attractive to players),
plus another that's not so popular (as a force to play against at the beginning, to artificially boost that faction due to the low cost and not to cannibalise too many future sales of both your best selling factions)
I don't know. There were other alternatives. The two candidates would make rather classic "steal the corporate secrets" mission. But, we'll see.
I just want new line infantry.
Nomads and PanO are some of the most popular factions, so it makes sense.
Do you perhaps have official data chart to validate it? It's not that I don't believe you, as this was my thought as well. However I've based it on rather dated information when PanO were second on how well they sell (Aleph being the first as I recall). Nomads are very popular with my local players and unofficial surveys and traffic around various forums indicate the same trend, it becomes a problem of how much you're willing trust yours and other observations.
I don't have the data offhand but I'm pretty positive that they've posted a chart concerning such at events.
I believe they've mentioned sales before for most factions being fairly even. Aleph slightly ahead, PanO higher up there, but the others are all pretty close. I think Ariadna's below the average a little, and CA is last by a fairly substantial margin.
I think 10 man groups will remain, but as this is a 'starter' and, presumably, something to help beginners, they maybe wanted groups that were a bit more manageable.
Man, it's too bad that CA are behind. There's gotta be a way to make the aliens more appealing. Perhaps some scenarios that cast them as the protagonists? Like the Shazvastii saving one of their breeding creches from human saboteurs, or the Morats engaging the enemy commander in an honor duel?
As for Araidna, a Kazak sectorial would probably bring those sales numbers up REAL fast.
I think the issue with the CA is that they seem a little directionless. You have the MAF, and the Shas stuff. But the thing that is the most interesting to me is the EI stuff. Once the EI sectorial drops I bet you'll see an interesting shift.
And I really really want to paint an Anathematic. SOBAD.
Alpharius wrote: I think 10 man groups will remain, but as this is a 'starter' and, presumably, something to help beginners, they maybe wanted groups that were a bit more manageable.
And, well, cost.
...and as opposed to current starter sets, this set may have two sides that are equally balanced in points.
...and maybe even an excuse to resculpt Fusiliers and Alguaciles.
Alpharius wrote: I think 10 man groups will remain, but as this is a 'starter' and, presumably, something to help beginners, they maybe wanted groups that were a bit more manageable.
And, well, cost.
...and as opposed to current starter sets, this set may have two sides that are equally balanced in points.
...and maybe even an excuse to resculpt Fusiliers and Alguaciles.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: I think the issue with the CA is that they seem a little directionless. You have the MAF, and the Shas stuff. But the thing that is the most interesting to me is the EI stuff. Once the EI sectorial drops I bet you'll see an interesting shift.
And I really really want to paint an Anathematic. SOBAD.
I totally agree; an EI sectorial I think would really spark this faction's #'s. I don't think it's so much a "lack of direction" (MAF and Shas, are nicely defined and unified in their respective themes) but rather its the transitional miniatures line that is really deterring players from jumping in in my opinion. Only recently have we finally gotten awesome new morats. However key morat units are still very much in the old 'style' creating a tough sell to jump into morats right now (who wants to invest in old sclupts that are inconsistent with the new awesome?) as you would expect i think people are just waiting it out. Furthermore the old EI units mash horribly with new morats and shas. I truly believe alot of infinty players *want* to play combined, by end up investing in the new shiney of other human factions as they wait out modernization of the combined minatures line.
Chemical Cutthroat wrote:I think the issue with the CA is that they seem a little directionless. You have the MAF, and the Shas stuff. But the thing that is the most interesting to me is the EI stuff. Once the EI sectorial drops I bet you'll see an interesting shift.
And I really really want to paint an Anathematic. SOBAD.
Well, the big thing that needs to be taken into consideration is this:
The SEF starter is pretty much one of the worst offenders in the whole "A starter that isn't really a starter" thing. It just isn't really doable. Add to it that SEF have a single boxed set(the Sphinx) and it becomes one of those issues of "Where exactly am I supposed to even really start?" for players that might be interested in the faction.
The way that Morats are being redone is wonderful as it addresses those kinds of concerns. Someone can easily "get into the game" with the MAF starter and the Vanguard box, or the MAF starter and a Daturazi box or a Yaogat box.
Expect the EI to be done similarly.
Absolutionis wrote:
Alpharius wrote: I think 10 man groups will remain, but as this is a 'starter' and, presumably, something to help beginners, they maybe wanted groups that were a bit more manageable.
And, well, cost.
...and as opposed to current starter sets, this set may have two sides that are equally balanced in points.
...and maybe even an excuse to resculpt Fusiliers and Alguaciles.
For what it's worth, I've been hearing rumblings that this is not where we're getting Alguaciles. We might get Fusiliers(or the Svalarheima equivalent, since each of the PanO factions have had some kind of Fusilier equivalent or simply access to Fusiliers) but I'm thinking that won't be the case.
Each side is looking at 7 models per side, which aligns perfectly with the a starter box and Dire Foes.
Personally? Here's what I think we're getting:
PanOceania ORC Trooper with MULTI Rifle(Svalarheima is the perfect place to put ORCs in for a Sectorial)
3x of whatever the Light Infantry will be (I'm kind of hoping for a non-Fusilier, as it's nice to see things like the Regulars or Order Sergeants or Auxilia, all of which are the 'local' veteran variant of Fusiliers)
A SpecOps that utilizes said profile(probably would be made available in a Dire Foes set)
A Niss model
Another new unit, most likely some kind of TO Camo unit since each PanO Sectorial seems to have at least one unit.
Nomads Kriza Borac(the Tunguskan Heavy Infantry, which purportedly has TO Camo)
3x Securitate
A Securitate based SpecOps
Grenzer(Tunguskan Skirmisher with MSV L1)
Maybe a Spektr?
Then there is one model in "grey" which likely would be a civilian/objective for a future Dire Foes box.
Savnock wrote: Man, it's too bad that CA are behind. There's gotta be a way to make the aliens more appealing. Perhaps some scenarios that cast them as the protagonists? Like the Shazvastii saving one of their breeding creches from human saboteurs, or the Morats engaging the enemy commander in an honor duel?
I'd wait for market's reaction to Ikadron (?) units. I don't think the real problem is being portrayed as antagonists.
I suspect with the Morat refresh that the MAF will gain in popularity.
Kanluwen wrote: Jotums and Nisses are a given, the only question is what else would be in there.
Although I guess with Jotums and Nisses there isn't really a need for a hell of a lot else, is there?
Order Monkeys. Jotums have an unquenchable appetite for orders.
Svalarheim will need a decent LI and HI unit or two. Fusiliers and ORCs would work. I'd rather see a unique LI though, like we get with the ASA-- regulars ,or with the MO-- Order Sergeants, or even the NCA with the Auxilia. Varuna will be getting the Kamau. A skirmisher would be cool too.
The box looks like 2 starters and a dire foes box. Some dice and templates thrown in. I wonder about printed material though, because of the language issues. That was the reason given for not including the scenarios in the Dire Foes box. Still, very intriguing.
Going to be a very interesting summer for Infinity.
I have to agree with the ideas the a lot of the CA's popularity problems will be fixed with re-sculpts and the new faction. Honestly I don't know where I am going to get the money for all this awesome stuff that is coming out. Really want to see this new starter though, this may be how I am able to get a friend to jump into the game. Can't wait for more details to be released.
GrimDork wrote: Huh, this interests me. The nomad half especially, though I dont have anything against pan-o. Looking forward to seeing just what's in he box!
Hell, if I can get another faction easily and add to my PanO, I'd take it!
Yeah, this seems like the best place to shuffle in resculpts for Fusiliers and Alguaciles as well as possibly redoing a few other starter box staples for both factions (Mobile Brigada is fairly likely given what we know). So my bet is that we will at least see new sculpts to replace two of the oldest line trooper sculpts in the game (now that the MAF starter has redone Vanguard).
Alguaciles and Fusiliers are getting their own boxes...
Is it possible for them to make an appearance in this? Sure...but given that Corregidor(home to Alguaciles and Mobile Brigada) have yet to receive a 'link team boxed set' (something that CB is trying to ensure that each Sectorial has in addition to their starter box), that chance looks more unlikely.
What's more someone pointed out that what was originally being thought of as a Mobile Brigada seems to have a more 'lacquered' finish to it, which is something we have only started seeing with Tunguska...who have a Heavy Infantry that is purportedly going to appear in the 3rd edition book alongside of units like the Kazak Spetsnaz.
I was kind of pegging fusiliers for a four special profiles box and three CR's in a (revamped) vanilla starter, like Bolts just got, though. That starter reaaally needs replacing and given CB's propensity for reducing SKU count of late, it'd fit.
Only having those fusiliers in a 2 faction starter would seem odd.
Of course, there's something to be said for just making it two regular starters and an equally separately available DF box in terms of keeping minis available for purchase in a reasonable way.
While I know you're against vanilla starters Kan, I wouldn't be surprised if they use this as an excuse to do new vanilla starters for PanO and Nomads. They're the only human factions left with old starters. Throw in a new Dire Foe box to make up the 7th model per side and the civvie and you've got a 2 player starter but also can release all the boxes individually for vets.
Honestly, I think it might be simply vanilla starters with resculpts, like every other human faction. While I know the original Combined Army starter was pulled, that's the only one. The original, old Nomad and Panoceania starters are still up, and begging for the treatment Ardiadna, Haqqislam and Yu Jing got for their vanilla starters.
I'm probably way off, but Operation Icestorm just seems like a great opportunity to resculpt them to bring them up to par with current sculpting standards and also combine them with a Dire Foes box to make a 2 player starter. Then also release them as individual units for people not looking for the whole 2 player set.
For packaging then, all they need to do is throw the already pre-packed starters and Dire Foes box into a larger box that has the Quickstart rules, cardstock terrain, dice and templates.
Is this Dire Foes speculation just based on the number of silhouettes or did I miss something more concrete?
Knight wrote: I'd wait for market's reaction to Ikadron (?) units. I don't think the real problem is being portrayed as antagonists.
From my experience as a single retailer, the Ikadron blister sells 3-4 times as well as any single Shasvastii blister. Not as well as the new Morat boxes but it's a reasonably steady seller.
Came from the model count of 7 vs 7 and a civvie. Starter boxes are 6 models, Dire Foes are 2 plus a civvie. So 6 + 1 vs 6 + 1 and a civvie looks like 2 starters and a Dire Foes set.
IJW wrote: Is this Dire Foes speculation just based on the number of silhouettes or did I miss something more concrete?
Knight wrote: I'd wait for market's reaction to Ikadron (?) units. I don't think the real problem is being portrayed as antagonists.
From my experience as a single retailer, the Ikadron blister sells 3-4 times as well as any single Shasvastii blister. Not as well as the new Morat boxes but it's a reasonably steady seller.
I'm not surprised Morat are selling a bit better, as they are more recent release. For instance, there are PanO collectors in my area but they don't play as much. Some of them preferring to play with other armies, however with the talk of NCA getting more attention there was a spike in interest. Similarly, I expect Ikadron sales to jump up once the hype for their sectorial starts.
Someone was telling me that aliens were always hard to sell, with the market preferring more human-like factions. I'm not going to disagree with it, I like the EI and Exrah (bug-like antagonists which great for "man versus wild" theme).
-Loki- wrote:Honestly, I think it might be simply vanilla starters with resculpts, like every other human faction. While I know the original Combined Army starter was pulled, that's the only one. The original, old Nomad and Panoceania starters are still up, and begging for the treatment Ardiadna, Haqqislam and Yu Jing got for their vanilla starters.
I'm probably way off, but Operation Icestorm just seems like a great opportunity to resculpt them to bring them up to par with current sculpting standards and also combine them with a Dire Foes box to make a 2 player starter. Then also release them as individual units for people not looking for the whole 2 player set.
For packaging then, all they need to do is throw the already pre-packed starters and Dire Foes box into a larger box that has the Quickstart rules, cardstock terrain, dice and templates.
The original Combined Army starter is the only one pulled now. And that's because the Morat Vanguard got put into the MAF box. The CA starter was a holdover because the MAF box did not exist.
Once the MAF box existed, there was no real reason to keep the CA starter around. Whenever we see Alguaciles and Fusiliers come out, then those "original starters" have no reason to exist as well.
Bolognesus wrote:I was kind of pegging fusiliers for a four special profiles box and three CR's in a (revamped) vanilla starter, like Bolts just got, though. That starter reaaally needs replacing and given CB's propensity for reducing SKU count of late, it'd fit.
Only having those fusiliers in a 2 faction starter would seem odd.
Of course, there's something to be said for just making it two regular starters and an equally separately available DF box in terms of keeping minis available for purchase in a reasonable way.
Remember that Fusiliers are going to be in the Varuna(the "aquatic" world, where the various Fusiliers in the 2nd edition rulebook are actually labeled as being "Varuna Fusiliers" rather than just "Fusiliers") Sectorial for PanO. As it stands right now Varuna is actually a bit more fleshed out than Svalarheima, as we know that Varuna has a hefty presence of Fusiliers, the Kamau, and Croc Men.
All we know for Svalarheima is Jotums and Nisses--and that inevitably they'll have some kind of Fusilier equivalent, along with a HI(ORCs make the most sense).
Varuna is in a similar position as Tunguska as we have a good idea as to what the Sectorial has. Varuna is home to the Kamau, has significant numbers of Croc Men in its antiterrorist forces, and is where the Cutter officially hails from. We also know that it's one of the planets where they don't have a "local Fusilier equivalent" but actually have Fusiliers.
IJW wrote: Is this Dire Foes speculation just based on the number of silhouettes or did I miss something more concrete?
Knight wrote: I'd wait for market's reaction to Ikadron (?) units. I don't think the real problem is being portrayed as antagonists.
From my experience as a single retailer, the Ikadron blister sells 3-4 times as well as any single Shasvastii blister. Not as well as the new Morat boxes but it's a reasonably steady seller.
I'm not surprised Morat are selling a bit better, as they are more recent release. For instance, there are PanO collectors in my area but they don't play as much. Some of them preferring to play with other armies, however with the talk of NCA getting more attention there was a spike in interest. Similarly, I expect Ikadron sales to jump up once the hype for their sectorial starts.
Someone was telling me that aliens were always hard to sell, with the market preferring more human-like factions. I'm not going to disagree with it, I like the EI and Exrah (bug-like antagonists which great for "man versus wild" theme).
I don't think that aliens are a hard sell, just that the Combined Army suffered from a distinctive lack of focus. Whenever I have heard people describe them to interested persons, the Combined Army is most often described like the Covenant from the "Halo" games with note made that they do not have the distinctive 'ranks' associated with the various races in place.
The Tohaa have been a phenomenal seller, with boxes going out of stock regularly.
Buy it now, before it goes out of production.
*anything* that makes a substantial difference and isn't normally used is something to gently notify an opponent of - that's just keeping it fun for everyone.
NCA with the Auxilia. Varuna will be getting the Kamau. A skirmisher would be cool too.