Ever since Codex: Tyranids, we've gotten Pyrovores, Venomthropes, Bloodstrike missiles, Psilencers, Dreadknights, and several other batches of names devised by a 10-year-old.
The game isn't meant to be serious. Mad Uruk Thraka is rolling in her grave.
Absolutionis wrote: Ever since Codex: Tyranids, we've gotten Pyrovores, Venomthropes, Bloodstrike missiles, Psilencers, Dreadknights, and several other batches of names devised by a 10-year-old.
The game isn't meant to be serious. Mad Uruk Thraka is rolling in her grave.
Because the "Wraithlord" and "Wraithguard" were so creative?
"Wraithlord" is much more creative than the term "Eldar Dreadnought" that it replaced.
This is a very good point. But, if this turns out to be true, and we have an Eldar walker that is Dreadknight size or bigger, it seems strange that the smaller walker is the WraithLORD, while the big hulking walker is the WraithKNIGHT...
Absolutionis wrote: Ever since Codex: Tyranids, we've gotten Pyrovores, Venomthropes, Bloodstrike missiles, Psilencers, Dreadknights, and several other batches of names devised by a 10-year-old.
The game isn't meant to be serious. Mad Uruk Thraka is rolling in her grave.
This is a very good point. But, if this turns out to be true, and we have an Eldar walker that is Dreadknight size or bigger, it seems strange that the smaller walker is the WraithLORD, while the big hulking walker is the WraithKNIGHT...
Knights typically were better fighters than their lords.
Kanluwen wrote: Because the "Wraithlord" and "Wraithguard" were so creative?
Were you, much like Peter Parker, bitten by a radio-active Red Shirt at one stage in your life, leaving you with a sixth sense – a “Kirby-Sense” you might call it – that lets you leap to GW’s defence over literally any criticism levelled GW’s way?
That’s an attempt at humour, before you use your home-made liquid green stuff launchers to stick me to a wall (and that was me continuing the Spider-man metaphor! Clever huh? ).
But Wraithguard were the original name. “Eldar Dreadnought” was the logical-if-uninspired name for the bigger walker. Then they decided to further link them so we got Wraithlord. Wraithknight is just on the nose, and you shouldn’t jump up to defend it. It stinks of laziness, especially when so many big Eldar units have various other names (and not just Bright Stallion either). I’d have expected greater creativity for the Eldar.
Kanluwen wrote: Because the "Wraithlord" and "Wraithguard" were so creative?
Were you, much like Peter Parker, bitten by a radio-active Red Shirt at one stage in your life, leaving you with a sixth sense – a “Kirby-Sense” you might call it – that lets you leap to GW’s defence over literally any criticism levelled GW’s way?
That’s an attempt at humour, before you use your home-made liquid green stuff launchers to stick me to a wall (and that was me continuing the Spider-man metaphor! Clever huh? ).
Criticize all you want; it doesn't change the fact that "Wraithlord" and "Wraithguard" were not really creative names to begin with. The Nemesis naming conventions, etc are irksome--but is it really so bad if a new Wraithbone construct which utilizes the whole Soulstone thing is called the "Wraithknight"? Or is this just more of your ire for the "Dreadknight" cropping back up?
But Wraithguard were the original name. “Eldar Dreadnought” was the logical-if-uninspired name for the bigger walker. Then they decided to further link them so we got Wraithlord. Wraithknight is just on the nose, and you shouldn’t jump up to defend it. It stinks of laziness, especially when so many big Eldar units have various other names (and not just Bright Stallion either). I’d have expected greater creativity for the Eldar.
Of course, the creativity of the Eldar war constructs is so varied. We have the "Phantom" and the "Revenant" to go with the "Wraith" constructs.
One thing I've always wondered is do the Eldar actually call them "Wraithguard" and "Wraithlords" or are they designations the Imperium has given to identify enemy equipment?
If it's the former...well, that's just terrible. If it's the latter it becomes a bit more acceptable but still silly.
Edit note:
I can't remember, but were you critical of Forge World's introduction of the "Wraithseer" construct?
I imagine we won't get pics or information for quite a while, as absurd and immature as this whole secrecy policy is, the GW stasi has been quite effective at keeping stuff classified until a week or two before the release.
Next: introducing the eldar "Flying monstrous walker", shaped like a longlegged wraithbone crane, loaded with pulsars.
Also the eldar prince will get a chariot pulled acros the sky by a wyper jetbike.
Just kidding folks, but GW these days... Well, actually I dont mind the whimsy so bad. People complain about GW not having any humor anymore, but when they release silly stuff, the crowd just let out a dissapointed sigh.
This is a very good point. But, if this turns out to be true, and we have an Eldar walker that is Dreadknight size or bigger, it seems strange that the smaller walker is the WraithLORD, while the big hulking walker is the WraithKNIGHT...
Knights typically were better fighters than their lords.
That wasn't too seldom because the lords were the larger of the two
Kanluwen wrote: Because the "Wraithlord" and "Wraithguard" were so creative?
Were you, much like Peter Parker, bitten by a radio-active Red Shirt at one stage in your life, leaving you with a sixth sense – a “Kirby-Sense” you might call it – that lets you leap to GW’s defence over literally any criticism levelled GW’s way?
That’s an attempt at humour, before you use your home-made liquid green stuff launchers to stick me to a wall (and that was me continuing the Spider-man metaphor! Clever huh? ).
Criticize all you want; it doesn't change the fact that "Wraithlord" and "Wraithguard" were not really creative names to begin with. The Nemesis naming conventions, etc are irksome--but is it really so bad if a new Wraithbone construct which utilizes the whole Soulstone thing is called the "Wraithknight"? Or is this just more of your ire for the "Dreadknight" cropping back up?
Wraith-X isn't very imaginative, but it is uniform. You have the "small X" the "large X" and forgeworld introduced the "mage X". What we're looking at now is the "largest X with a tinier name" which is where the table flips for most people who criticise the name, I think. The important part of the Wraith-naming convention is that it unifies them around the Wraithsight rule and the fact that none of the Wraiths are actually alive, contrary to the rest of the army. Wraithhmhmhm is good, they just need to figure out how to say "really fething huge" in a single word that doesn't make the Lord sound larger.
*shrugs* I have no idea what's so bad with the Wraithknight name since it fits the role, but as someone previously mentioned, Wraithking is ... awesome
Out of curiosity, why do people hate the new gigantic MC models? They look and feel awesome (well, except the Grey Knights one, but with some conversion it's ok) and are really good centerpieces for your army. Seriously, why the hate?! They ARE awesome.
P.S: Is it just me, or we are getting much less information for the eldar than we had for the Tau?
TheDraconicLord wrote: *shrugs* I have no idea what's so bad with the Wraithknight name since it fits the role, but as someone previously mentioned, Wraithking is ... awesome
Out of curiosity, why do people hate the new gigantic MC models? They look and feel awesome (well, except the Grey Knights one, but with some conversion it's ok) and are really good centerpieces for your army. Seriously, why the hate?! They ARE awesome.
P.S: Is it just me, or we are getting much less information for the eldar than we had for the Tau?
IMO, I think it's because they are just constantly spamming new, big kits with questionable aesthetics rather than updating existing kits that could use it. The Eldar would be an excellent example if (key word) they left all the Aspect Warriors as FineCast and instead release a MC and a flyer; the Eldar need many more "basic" plastic kits than an army like the Tau or Dark Angels or Chaos Marines do because honestly, Aspect Warriors are a core feature of an Eldar force. The recent High Elf release would be another example as their basic spearmen and archer kits could use an upgrade to current GW standards, but they were deferred until later in favor of mostly-new units (I believe the Shadow Warriors were the sole existing unit converted to plastic).
Obviously, GW is going for the "nobody has new stuff, so we need new stuff" approach rather than gambling on new core boxes that may or may not sell due to a glut of older models available secondhand. People who want older models updated/converted will naturally be unhappy with the idea, and then GW's ham-fisted designs and naming are just the icing on the cake.
TheDraconicLord wrote: *shrugs* I have no idea what's so bad with the Wraithknight name since it fits the role, but as someone previously mentioned, Wraithking is ... awesome
Out of curiosity, why do people hate the new gigantic MC models? They look and feel awesome (well, except the Grey Knights one, but with some conversion it's ok) and are really good centerpieces for your army. Seriously, why the hate?! They ARE awesome.
P.S: Is it just me, or we are getting much less information for the eldar than we had for the Tau?
IMHO40k should be an infantry based game. Where you have squads of troops fighting it out over a blasted battlefield. 6th edition added flyers and a lot of giant monsters, which pull the focus away from the guy in the trenches. In all fairness, this is not a new thing. 2nd edition hero-hammer was about tooled up characters, not about the rest of your army.
I don't think chaos needed the giant deamon/monster things they got. Detracts from the chaos marines. I do like the riptide though, it kinda fits Tau, and does make for a nice centerpiece. Assuming you don't get 3 spammed at you, that takes away from the whole "centerpiece" thing.
If the eldar stuff looks cool, I might restart my second army, which has been languishing on a dark shelf for a while now.
Redemption wrote: In relation to the flyers, Best_Pone (who also got the new High Elf models right) on Warseer posted this:
best_pone wrote:The main hull and wings are common across both builds. It's amazing how different tail and fin positioning can alter the look of the aircraft though
Common features:
- Downward angling of the primary wings (about 30º I'd estimate)
- Canards are very slightly angled down, but near horizontal
- Engines are mounted in pods in the wings
- One weapon mounted centreline under the hull, and one in a pod in each wing
Hemlock:
- Has a single vertical stabiliser mounted on the centreline of the aircraft
Nightshade:
- Twin "vertical" stabilisers (they're actually about 30º from horizontal), one mounted on each engine pod.
So the new Eldar flyer will be a dual kit, making either a flyer called the Hemlock or the Nightshade. He also mentioned they somewhat remind him of a flyer from an anime show called Battle Fairy Yukikaze.
In relation to the new Wraith construct, he said it is called the Wraithknight and that it is very tall, large enough to look down upon current flyer models.
I think the name are off on the Eldar flyers. The Hemlock and Nightshade are already used for their Eldar range of Battlefleet Gothic destroyer-class vessels. I did hear rumors of Lamia and Moonsiren before though.
Nevelon wrote: IMHO40k should be an infantry based game. Where you have squads of troops fighting it out over a blasted battlefield. 6th edition added flyers and a lot of giant monsters, which pull the focus away from the guy in the trenches. In all fairness, this is not a new thing. 2nd edition hero-hammer was about tooled up characters, not about the rest of your army.
Agreed.
I think in GW's rush to sell "centerpieces" they've actually taken away some of the players' ability to decide what is the centerpiece for their armies. Now there are obvious kits that because of game rules and meta-game realities will likely need to be taken to maintain a playable army. For example, one of the things I really wanted to do if I ever got back into Eldar was make a unit of guardian battlefield engineers. Yes, Eldar are all about speed and maneuverability, but every once in a while they surely have to hold some territory, and since guardians are the only soldiers in the army who have a day job I thought they'd be the perfect unit for the task. They could be led by a Bonesinger and maybe have an anti-grav platform earth mover of some kind, but half the fun was trying to figure out what Eldar trenching tools would look like, how they are different from Imperial tools. I think there's a lot of potential for making something characterful there, even if game mechanic-wise it does nothing. I also wanted to try to combine the current wave serpent kit and the new Dark Eldar raider kit to make a wave serpent that looks more like the 1st edition/Armorcast bireme waveserpent. But instead I am worried I will be pushed by the rules to buy new shiny MCs and flyers in order to also enjoy winning a game once in a while, and honestly I just don't care about these things. It will distract from the real centerpiece of my army, both visually and in terms of the time/money I can invest.
Part of what got me into GW in the first place was the ability to use my miniatures to tell a story about my army, and as the focus moves away from the infantry more and more the whole experience just seems to be getting blander and blander.
shade1313 wrote: I believe Best Pone confirmed it, I just hope he's wrong about the name of that as well as the names of the aircraft.
Best Pone used the name but he didn't confirm it. In fact, he may have just been using it as shorthand. Darnok is the one who actually said that was what the unit was called. Darnok is somewhat reliable (37T, 14F) so we'll see.
I stand corrected. Still hope that's not its name. There are other, similarly themed words they could use if they want to fit the "ghost" theme that goes from Wraithguard up through Phantom (Knights being the exceptions).
And I really hope that they aren't actually graverobbing names from the recently killed BFG for the planes.
shade1313 wrote: I stand corrected. Still hope that's not its name. There are other, similarly themed words they could use if they want to fit the "ghost" theme that goes from Wraithguard up through Phantom (Knights being the exceptions).
And I really hope that they aren't actually graverobbing names from the recently killed BFG for the planes.
Mmm. Phantom Knight, one of my favorite prestige classes!
Krinsath wrote:
IMO, I think it's because they are just constantly spamming new, big kits with questionable aesthetics rather than updating existing kits that could use it. The Eldar would be an excellent example if (key word) they left all the Aspect Warriors as FineCast and instead release a MC and a flyer; the Eldar need many more "basic" plastic kits than an army like the Tau or Dark Angels or Chaos Marines do because honestly, Aspect Warriors are a core feature of an Eldar force. The recent High Elf release would be another example as their basic spearmen and archer kits could use an upgrade to current GW standards, but they were deferred until later in favor of mostly-new units (I believe the Shadow Warriors were the sole existing unit converted to plastic).
Obviously, GW is going for the "nobody has new stuff, so we need new stuff" approach rather than gambling on new core boxes that may or may not sell due to a glut of older models available secondhand. People who want older models updated/converted will naturally be unhappy with the idea, and then GW's ham-fisted designs and naming are just the icing on the cake.
Nevelon wrote:
IMHO40k should be an infantry based game. Where you have squads of troops fighting it out over a blasted battlefield. 6th edition added flyers and a lot of giant monsters, which pull the focus away from the guy in the trenches. In all fairness, this is not a new thing. 2nd edition hero-hammer was about tooled up characters, not about the rest of your army.
I don't think chaos needed the giant deamon/monster things they got. Detracts from the chaos marines. I do like the riptide though, it kinda fits Tau, and does make for a nice centerpiece. Assuming you don't get 3 spammed at you, that takes away from the whole "centerpiece" thing.
If the eldar stuff looks cool, I might restart my second army, which has been languishing on a dark shelf for a while now.
I see, I understand both your points.
I guess it's also a matter of personal taste. I really enjoy these new giant kits.
@Nevelon: I understand that! It's a bit sad when people bring the minimum ammount of troops just because they are forced and store them away in some corner hoping they just don't die. The game isn't all about shiny new toys. Ah well, to each his own.
Ha! It has always been about shiny new toys. That is the driving engine of the game/universe. New models, new armies, new codexes, new editions.
Aaaaanyways, back on topic. Still waiting for some more concrete rumors.
haha, touché! You caught me there what I meant is that your other units need some love too, mostly the troops they are the little guys that work hard for you! Oh, and yes, new stuff is always awesome. Including the codex... I like them so much I'm collecting all the new 40k ones
And Ive been around since Rouge Trader days...i still have guardian MUSICIANS in my units.
At one point in time I had the Towering Knight Destroyer...it was from Armorcast and it was AWESOME!!! .. Then 3rd ed came out and we couldnt use them in our games anymore. I wish I would have hung onto that model!!!
But I am also eagerly awaiting the new Codex too.
I hope the writer fixes the Shuriken Catapult as well.
I want to see the Eldar become the masters of manuverability again too.
How about a vehicle upgrade that allows the Falcon to move at combat speed and fire at ANY point in the movement.
And lets be honest...make the Falcon BS 4 and fix the Pulse laser. It should be Str 9 Hvy 2 Lance 60" range. or so...
As far as the WarWalkers...bring back a REAL power field like we had back in the day. I would be fine with a 5++ save.
I would like a single assault ramp whether it is a new vehicle or a grossly overpriced upgrade for a Wave Serpent. Howling Banshees were already difficult to set up in 5th and now they are practically impossible.
When I was first playing Orks in 1989/90 I was new to 40K and loved the look of the wraithlord towering over the battlefield and thought they were awesome and I wished I played Eldar. Having just got back into 40K a year ago I had to pick Eldar despite knowing they were dealing with an out of date codex. As far as I am concerned I love the idea of another huge Eldar construct and you could call it a Wraithsquire or Wraithprincess for all I care as long as we get an updated codex. However I do not think naming conventions have to indicate hierarchy or that we should assume a bigger construct means it needs to be daddy to the smaller etc just my opinion.
"I work at a hobby shop and yesterday I was submitting my Games Workshop order. To my surprise my GW rep asked me if I wanted one of the collectors edition codex's ( he knows i'm a huge Eldar fan). I submitted my order for the entire new line of Eldar mini's. Some notable orders were a Wraithguard box set, a new Eldar Avatar box, Jetbikes 3 pack, and the new flier. He couldn't give me names but I can confirm that on May 24th the pre-order for Eldar will be released and they will be released the first week of June.
Edit: Removed location to protect the identity of those who are involved"
Nothing really surprising in there, but gives us a solid date to think about.
Best_pone added this, i don't know if you guys posted it before (don't think so)
"To be fair, the flyers and wraithknight are the new shiny things, so they're going to be what grab the most attention.
You are getting new wraithguard - it's a double pack that also do a close combat version. Both types will also have weapon options.
The Finecast that I've seen are a spiritseer and a ranger, and your new battleforce replaces the warwalker with a viper."
warpspider89 wrote: It is a long standing rumor that there will be a CC variant of WG.
One benefit of such a unit would be the fact that your current wraithguard are useless and you'd have to buy/convert new CC ones. I can see it now....
Still, Eldar already have a lot of CC-oriented units, they don't really need another. Although a T6 close combat unit with a 3+ save is nothing to be sneezed at.
pretre wrote: Heading into less likely territory. CC Wraithguard?
75hastings69 wrote: there's a huge wraith guard construct type thing (similar to tau) IIRC it has two builds (shooty & cc), also IIRC the actual wraith guard have some kind of CC build option.
warpspider89 wrote: It is a long standing rumor that there will be a CC variant of WG.
One benefit of such a unit would be the fact that your current wraithguard are useless and you'd have to buy/convert new CC ones. I can see it now....
Still, Eldar already have a lot of CC-oriented units, they don't really need another. Although a T6 close combat unit with a 3+ save is nothing to be sneezed at.
Eldar may have some CC-oriented units, but they need some that make sense. Two editions since the last codex haven't been kind to Banshees (and to a lesser extent Scorpions).
So, part of the new rumors is that the Eldar walker gets a name to sound like the Eldar are just wishing they were Grey Knights, and to keep my Saim-Hann jetbike army legal without painting more foot Troops, I have to take a Special Character all the time, and I will be forced to sink points into a mandatory Exarch for all my Aspect Warrior squads? Bleh.
Maybe call the new walker a Ghost Warrior, to bring back a name from pre-Second edition. That's what they used to call Wraithlords (Dreadnoughts had a pilot, while Ghost Warriors were run by Spirit Stones alone like current Wraithlords.)
"I work at a hobby shop and yesterday I was submitting my Games Workshop order. To my surprise my GW rep asked me if I wanted one of the collectors edition codex's ( he knows i'm a huge Eldar fan). I submitted my order for the entire new line of Eldar mini's. Some notable orders were a Wraithguard box set, a new Eldar Avatar box, Jetbikes 3 pack, and the new flier. He couldn't give me names but I can confirm that on May 24th the pre-order for Eldar will be released and they will be released the first week of June.
Edit: Removed location to protect the identity of those who are involved"
Nothing really surprising in there, but gives us a solid date to think about.
while I have no reason to doubt this guy, this story would sound much more likely if it was any company other then GW. With as tight lipped as they try to be I find it hard to believe a conversation like this would happen
On the other hand, he doesn't really say anything groundbreaking. It only further supports the current rumors of a Wraithguard Box, 3x Jetbikes, and new flier. There's a rumor of the Wraithknight, but it could easily have been mistaken for a Avatar.
ground breaking or not it would mean a member of GW spoke to a member of the public about a future release before the info appears in white dwarf....the inquisition would not stand for this!
Just a quick one since its 2:30am and i really dont want to search through 30+
Any real buzz kills for wraith guard?
I currently run 30 (2 units of 10 for troop and 2 units of 5 in elite) and 3 wraithlords.
Love my ghost themed army, but just want to know if anything has been said about changes.
Really dont want my army to become illegal overnight.
Jackal wrote: Just a quick one since its 2:30am and i really dont want to search through 30+
Any real buzz kills for wraith guard?
I currently run 30 (2 units of 10 for troop and 2 units of 5 in elite) and 3 wraithlords.
Love my ghost themed army, but just want to know if anything has been said about changes.
Really dont want my army to become illegal overnight.
ghosts are getting the new giant wraith construct one of the weapons someone posted the stats for (could be wrong) was a bright lance on crack called a pulsar lance with an overcharge option like the riptide (this one is suspect at this point, better stats are a few pages back)
a new plastic farseer
and a plastic box with regular wraith and a dual kit option for some form of cc wraiths. (rumored obviously but is almost 100% likely at this point)
what they do or if any of them suck is up in the air
According to the warseer rumors out today, there are weapon options for both the close combat and ranged wraithguard. I take this to mean they both can take more than one weapon to fill their role.
That - I would think - is bad for the wraithcannon. Why make a weapon option that is effective and the current model possesses? no, make a new weapon option which is clearly better, leave the old option as is, and everyone has to buy new units whether they had 25 wraithguard (like me) or not.
Gwyidion wrote: According to the warseer rumors out today, there are weapon options for both the close combat and ranged wraithguard. I take this to mean they both can take more than one weapon to fill their role.
That - I would think - is bad for the wraithcannon. Why make a weapon option that is effective and the current model possesses? no, make a new weapon option which is clearly better, leave the old option as is, and everyone has to buy new units whether they had 25 wraithguard (like me) or not.
the above is speculation.
Could just as well be something like a D-Cannon per 5 Wraithguard, no need to be all doom and gloom yet.
D-cannon per 5 wraithguard seems good to me Wouldnt mind converting mine since 15/30 are finecast, so easy enough to chop.
Would be nice to see D-cannon as an option for a wraithlord too.
I just think the whole wraithlord fun is at the end of its days.
Really dont see it staying T8.
Would be nice to have more than 2 attacks though, might make the blade more useful.
Thinking about the maybe new plastic wraithguard, I expect them to be 5 to a box. 3 to a box is only for large infantry models, things like Crisis suits and the such. Wraithguard as more human size creatures, so 5 to a box is more likely, if indeed they come out,.
AegisGrimm wrote: Maybe call the new walker a Ghost Warrior, to bring back a name from pre-Second edition. That's what they used to call Wraithlords (Dreadnoughts had a pilot, while Ghost Warriors were run by Spirit Stones alone like current Wraithlords.)
I thought the smaller constructs (roughly equivalent to Wraithguard) were the 'ghost warriors'... the dread-like ones were spirit-something-or-others, if my cloudy teenage memories can be trusted.
This wouldn't be fluffy. Shooting fits much better.
Why? Wraithguard were first used by Iyanden to defend their craftworld against Tyranids, when living Eldar became rare. Close combat units in addition to shooty units sound very reasonable in the close quarter fighting of a craftworld.
I think a plastic boxset of Wraithguard would be pretty cool...
I have 5 metals that I have collected over the years and another 5 would be nice.
Any thoughts on what is going to happen to Scorpions?
I think a hammer of wrath at str 4 would be a cool rule for the mandiblasters...thats kinda what they did under 2nd ed..
AegisGrimm wrote: Maybe call the new walker a Ghost Warrior, to bring back a name from pre-Second edition. That's what they used to call Wraithlords (Dreadnoughts had a pilot, while Ghost Warriors were run by Spirit Stones alone like current Wraithlords.)
I thought the smaller constructs (roughly equivalent to Wraithguard) were the 'ghost warriors'... the dread-like ones were spirit-something-or-others, if my cloudy teenage memories can be trusted.
Yup, you're right!
I just pulled out my old 40K Compendium book from the shelf, and Spirit-Warriors are indeed the pre-Wraithlords, while the Ghost-Warriors were the infantry sized constructs, which I assume ended up becoming Wraithguard.
That definitely conjured up some old memories. One of my buddies used to run Spirit Warriors as Rogue Trader had some sort of build your own ruleset. I vaguely remember his Spirit Warriors had twin powerfists, high toughness and save; oh and a Shuriken Catapult mounted in its head. Tough as nails to destroy.
The one rumor I'm not liking is if an Eldar Jetbike unit requires an HQ slot to have them count as troops. That's a fairly high tax unless the character is extremely useful, such as Azreal.
Yes and no. At the moment Jetbikes are already one of the best scoring units in the game purely because of the insane 48" capture/contest ability, they just don't have much durability or damage output. If they get cheaper (possible) and/or get some more options (fairly likely since they have basically no options at the moment) i.e something other than Shuriken Cannons for Weapon upgrades, a better base weapon (fairly likely), more options for Warlocks or other squad leaders, Vypers change to attack bike heavy bikers etc etc, then they would be seriously strong if there were troops by default.
That's a 36" Turboboost range on Eldar Jetbikes: 12" move + 24" boost in the shooting phase.
I'd love to see more heavy weapon options on GJB's but I'm not holding my breath.
Who thinks it's likely they'll update any of the heavy weapon stats, which ones, and why? I'd love to see a return of the starcannon, which has found some love on Wraithlords in my army for it's lovely AP2. I could see it being changed to heavy 1 blast to set it apart from the other S6 weapons in the Eldar arsenal. Giving shuriken weaponry the Shred special rule would be a nice touch, too, but that's just wishlisting.
Jetbikes would be friggin awesome if they stayed the same points cost and same upgrades, but fell under effects of Shuriken Catapults that went back to basically being "Eldar Storm Bolters" like they were in 2nd edition. I would almost gladly pay a HQ tax for them being Troops, if that happened. IMHO, it would change the Eldar army loads to just have decent range on their Shuriken Weapons again.
I think Shuriken weaponry getting across the board range increases would be perfectly fine, no special rules needed.
Maybe Jetbikes will be armed with Shuriken Pods which are longer-ranged. I'd like to be able to give them a Fusion Blaster, as well as flamers and maybe limited heavy weapons like a missile launcher.
I don't seeing Eldar jet bikes getting too much cheaper. For what is basically a marine that can go 48" (12" move + 36" turbo boost) they arent that horribly priced. However I could see a slight range boost to the catapults happening.
Gavin Thorne wrote: That's a 36" Turboboost range on Eldar Jetbikes: 12" move + 24" boost in the shooting phase.
I'd love to see more heavy weapon options on GJB's but I'm not holding my breath.
Who thinks it's likely they'll update any of the heavy weapon stats, which ones, and why? I'd love to see a return of the starcannon, which has found some love on Wraithlords in my army for it's lovely AP2. I could see it being changed to heavy 1 blast to set it apart from the other S6 weapons in the Eldar arsenal. Giving shuriken weaponry the Shred special rule would be a nice touch, too, but that's just wishlisting.
Goobi2 wrote: I don't seeing Eldar jet bikes getting too much cheaper. For what is basically a marine that can go 48" (12" move + 36" turbo boost) they arent that horribly priced. However I could see a slight range boost to the catapults happening.
Betcha the jet bikes will get thrown into a fast attack slot and you need a shiny brand new model to unlock its "special" abilities.
Wraith Guard will probably be elite and you need that special model to unlock it as well.
I think this is going to suck and suck big time. But hey! People will buy the codex and make ally hybrid armies.
That is all what 6th ED is about. Sucking the life out of the hobby by expensive upgrades to make your army playable using current rule set/codex.
OH don't forget the increase in June. Buy Buy Buy!! Get into the purchase frenzy before the cost will go higher!!!
Man the financial report is going to be sweet this year.
Goobi2 wrote: I don't seeing Eldar jet bikes getting too much cheaper. For what is basically a marine that can go 48" (12" move + 36" turbo boost) they arent that horribly priced. However I could see a slight range boost to the catapults happening.
Betcha the jet bikes will get thrown into a fast attack slot and you need a shiny brand new model to unlock its "special" abilities.
Wraith Guard will probably be elite and you need that special model to unlock it as well.
I think this is going to suck and suck big time. But hey! People will buy the codex and make ally hybrid armies.
That is all what 6th ED is about. Sucking the life out of the hobby by expensive upgrades to make your army playable using current rule set/codex.
OH don't forget the increase in June. Buy Buy Buy!! Get into the purchase frenzy before the cost will go higher!!!
Man the financial report is going to be sweet this year.
Gavin Thorne wrote: That's a 36" Turboboost range on Eldar Jetbikes: 12" move + 24" boost in the shooting phase.
I'd love to see more heavy weapon options on GJB's but I'm not holding my breath.
Who thinks it's likely they'll update any of the heavy weapon stats, which ones, and why? I'd love to see a return of the starcannon, which has found some love on Wraithlords in my army for it's lovely AP2. I could see it being changed to heavy 1 blast to set it apart from the other S6 weapons in the Eldar arsenal. Giving shuriken weaponry the Shred special rule would be a nice touch, too, but that's just wishlisting.
Eldar Jetbikes get a 36" Turboboost, not 24"
I concede to your superior reading skills, as I totally missed that little inset under the bikes category for Eldar jetbikes for the last year. I've been playing them with a 24" turbo boost, lol. I'm leaving criticism of the codex out of my discussion until it's released, it just doesn't make sense to get upset about something that's complete speculation until (IF) we get a solid leak or the actual release.
The latest Eldar rumor centers around the Shuriken weaponry.
From BoLS:
Word has reached us of two divergent schools of though for the latest codex shuriken family, and the jury is still out on which one was ultimately selected. Both are highly divergent from the short-ranged 12" S:4 AP:5 Assault 2 weapon we have now (oh those poor, poor Guardians). Here we go folks:
So no definite news, and not even one rumor, but TWO. What will be the end result? Consensus is growing that The Bane of Flesh is just too heinous. We shall have to wait and see!
The Bane of Flesh would just be yet another boot in the nads to DE. DE are the ones with poisoned EVERYTHING at 4+. Giving regular Eldar 2+ wounding EVERYTHING as assault weapons would totally outshine them,
Both make little sense. Having almost the entire infantry in the army Wound everything on a 2+ is far too powerful; it would certainly screw over armies with lots of Monstrous Creatures like 'Nids. That and the Shrieker Cannon has both Poisoned (4+) and Fleshbane, which don't even work together.
And Salvo requires the models to remain still to get maximum result, which seems counterintuative to the Eldar's way of warfare where manueverability and speed are key.
1) Bane of Flesh is ridiculously overpowered if the rumored point drop in guardians is true... if this does happen, ork players will shelve their armies, Eldar will make a mockery of every ward dex (which wont happen) with their basic troops, and every new fluffy SM bike army will take a massive hit to the gonads...
2) two words and a numeral: bladstorm salvo 4...
dire avengers already spit out obscene amounts of fire with three shots every other turn, now people want to make it 5? thats 50 shots without an exarch, and if my math is correct, an exarch should add 8 shots with dual ASCs, with an extra shot for Bladestorm makes 59 shots that will probably have reroll to hit at the minimum, and possibly firing at a target under the effects of doom... that amounts to roughly 55 hits, and around 50 wounds... I dont care who you are, that is cooooooold...
I'd buy Shred over Fleshbane. Fleshbane would be way too overpowered, and as said doesn't mix with Poisoned. Shred, on the other hand, makes sense by the fluff of shuriken weaponry, is powerful without being too overpowered, and gives the Eldar a unique little trick there.
Maybe someone got Shred and Fleshbane mixed up somewhere, that would make this slightly more believable.
I also don't believe that Salvo will be used, seems way too static for Eldar.
I agree with all this.
Fleshbane would be insane and would make DE look terrible by comparison. I can see Shred being more reasonable and makes more sense with the ammo they use.
Salvo is a great rule, but I doesn't seem right. It might be nice on some of the Vehicles though. I think Salvo is more believable than Fleshbane at least.
Still, I don't really believe either of these rumors.
1) Bane of Flesh is ridiculously overpowered if the rumored point drop in guardians is true... if this does happen, ork players will shelve their armies, Eldar will make a mockery of every ward dex (which wont happen) with their basic troops, and every new fluffy SM bike army will take a massive hit to the gonads...
2) two words and a numeral: bladstorm salvo 4...
dire avengers already spit out obscene amounts of fire with three shots every other turn, now people want to make it 5? thats 50 shots without an exarch, and if my math is correct, an exarch should add 8 shots with dual ASCs, with an extra shot for Bladestorm makes 59 shots that will probably have reroll to hit at the minimum, and possibly firing at a target under the effects of doom... that amounts to roughly 55 hits, and around 50 wounds... I dont care who you are, that is cooooooold...
Of course, if Ward is indeed writing the Eldar codex, then Fleshbane might be true...
I mean, he did just give High Elves an instant, insanely cheap hard-counter to the entire Daemons of Chaos army! (meaning he's now 4-for-4 on screwing up Daemons big time)
What's to stop him from thinking that having the ability for army-wide 2+ to-wound isn't balanced?!
rain of shuriken maybe, but fleshbane on shuricans... lol theres no way that will ever happen. ever. 10 dire avengers with bladestorm and doom could probably wipe a tac squad O.o
well maybe not, theyd probably kill 5-6 of them, but still, that would be pretty insane, 20 guide-doom guardians would be immense aswell
Another reason why the Salvo option doesn't really make a lot of sense: the only one* that would actually be affected would be the Catapult. The Cannon is almost universally (currently) mounted either on vehicles, bikes, or platforms, all of which are capable of firing while moving so they would simply be the equivalent of Heavy X, where X is the 2nd Salvo value.
Magc8Ball wrote: Another reason why the Salvo option doesn't really make a lot of sense: the only one* that would actually be affected would be the Catapult. The Cannon is almost universally (currently) mounted either on vehicles, bikes, or platforms, all of which are capable of firing while moving so they would simply be the equivalent of Heavy X, where X is the 2nd Salvo value.
The Chaos Daemon's Iron Claw can only be mounted on a walker. It's unwieldy. Walkers ignore unwieldy, as per the unwieldy rule. So, while I see your point, hopefully, you can see mine.
Shred would make Eldar weaponry very, very ridiculously OP. Guide/shred/doom/bladestorm on 10 DA's and there goes a tac squad, literally. Just tag-team DA's and you can delete whatever you want from the board, for ludicrously cheap. It would also make the army very unweildy - rerolling so many dice just gets tiresome. Possibly if the weaponry goes to s3, but even still...
Magc8Ball wrote: Another reason why the Salvo option doesn't really make a lot of sense: the only one* that would actually be affected would be the Catapult. The Cannon is almost universally (currently) mounted either on vehicles, bikes, or platforms, all of which are capable of firing while moving so they would simply be the equivalent of Heavy X, where X is the 2nd Salvo value.
+1
Salvo on shuriken cannons 3/6 would be absurdly overpowered given the usual wielders : imagine a bog standard trio of war walkers put in a firing position, they would unleash 6*2*3 = 36 STR 6 AP 5 shots ! Horrible.
Salvo 2/4 basic shuriken is not reasonable on jetbikes either. An ordinary six jetbikes squad, not upgraded with shuricannon would yield 24 shots @ STR4. Without farseer support, that is 8 easy kills on GEQ, two on average on MEQ.
The other rumored version looks like a crazy idea of drunk conceptor on friday's evening. Near army-wide 2+ to wound everyone is nonsense, that would screw half codices of the game. Against ork / Marines it's equivalent to STR 6, against 'nids big bugs, it's equivalent to STR 8. No no no !
However, I can't decide which of two versions is the most absurd. The only part that seems plausible to me is... the rest in fact : remove salvo & fleshbane and you have a nice gradation of weapon profiles.
Uber, if you are talking tag teaming avenger squads you need two squads of avegers (about 177 ea) two farseers (about 100-150 ea). So you find it horrible that 540 pts of Eldar could kill a 150-200 pt marine squad? Oh the horror!
Even if one avenger squad can kill up to 6-8 marines thats still almost 300 pts of stuff against half that amount. Sounds about right to me.
uberjoras wrote: Shred would make Eldar weaponry very, very ridiculously OP. Guide/shred/doom/bladestorm on 10 DA's and there goes a tac squad, literally. Just tag-team DA's and you can delete whatever you want from the board, for ludicrously cheap. It would also make the army very unweildy - rerolling so many dice just gets tiresome. Possibly if the weaponry goes to s3, but even still...
The issue with this analysis is you're assuming the weapons change (to gain Shred), and nothing else changes to weaken the army. Also, Shred+Doom doesn't actually stack, so Guide/Doom/Bladestorm already does exactly what you're saying is overpowered.
Edit: still think the rumors are wrong, even if they "meant" Shred.
I thought doom caused rerolls to successful saves? (Not an Eldar player) If not, isn't there a divination power that does this anyways?
The tag-teams only need one farseer per two DA squads anyways.
The issue with the reasoning of "it takes 2x the points of target unit to kill it" is that in a 2k game you can, even to armies g2g in cover, kill 500+ points with a *very* simple combo on the first turn, reliably. In the case of the DA's, it's actually about 300 points to kill 200 of most marines if you include their typical gear. For example, even 3 dual-plasma crisis suits with markerlights only kill 8/9 marines on average, and need to be within 12", and need 100 points of squishy markerlight support to do this. 10 DA's would be able to do this from 18" with farseers behind/out of LOS, while also probably scoring.
A Range increase on shuriken weapons? Sure. ROF increase for a S decrease, also sure. Just adding shred onto them would be ridiculous. It's exactly like saying "FW aren't strong enough, let's give them s6 guns!"
Strength 3 guns would be incredibly awful no matter if they were assault 3. You wouldn't be able to glance any vehicle or wound T7 at all. Re-rolls don't help when the chance is 0.
The problem with Eldar isn't their inability to wound things so shred is fairly pointless. We just need vehicles and units that are playable again. For an army that is supposed to one of the fastest instead Eldar is quite slow (at least with the units that are playable).
Still unsure why T8 wraithlords are a big deal as they were designed to be comparable to dreadnoughts yet T8 is only AV 11/12. Even T10 is easier to wound than a land raider.
So silly question time, has there been any updates on the solitaire HQ and variant jetbike rumours that popped up a little while ago, I'm trying to build a Harlequin themed army.
The problem with Eldar isn't their inability to wound things so shred is fairly pointless. We just need vehicles and units that are playable again. For an army that is supposed to one of the fastest instead Eldar is quite slow (at least with the units that are playable).
While I can't comment on what Eldar need, I'd say it's fairly clear that this rule is based on the fluff and being introduced as a new way Eldar are different, rather than a rule to help balance out the army. Hopefully there would be some other rules/units that did that in support of this fluff one that is rumoured.
Magc8Ball wrote: Another reason why the Salvo option doesn't really make a lot of sense: the only one* that would actually be affected would be the Catapult. The Cannon is almost universally (currently) mounted either on vehicles, bikes, or platforms, all of which are capable of firing while moving so they would simply be the equivalent of Heavy X, where X is the 2nd Salvo value.
The Chaos Daemon's Iron Claw can only be mounted on a walker. It's unwieldy. Walkers ignore unwieldy, as per the unwieldy rule. So, while I see your point, hopefully, you can see mine.
If your point is that logical inconsistencies have never stopped GW from doing something silly before, I totally agree with it.
The problem is that it's too much like Rapid Fire.
It needs to be that no matter what the weapon's XX" range is that the first number for the weapons rate of fire is used when moving and the second number is for sitting still or being fired from a vehicle.
If Eldar get Fleshbane then I think we are going to see a lot of WS in tournaments that carry DA's, but if we do get Flesh think of what power (the one most people b***h about) might be taken away because we need to be balanced out....Lots of people are not taking into account other things Eldar have that GW would probably love to take away out of sheer spite and just give us only one option.
uberjoras wrote: Shred would make Eldar weaponry very, very ridiculously OP. Guide/shred/doom/bladestorm on 10 DA's and there goes a tac squad, literally. Just tag-team DA's and you can delete whatever you want from the board, for ludicrously cheap. It would also make the army very unweildy - rerolling so many dice just gets tiresome. Possibly if the weaponry goes to s3, but even still...
Who's to say that we even retain Guide and Doom? I haven't heard a peep about the Eldar psyker powers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rolt wrote: So silly question time, has there been any updates on the solitaire HQ and variant jetbike rumours that popped up a little while ago, I'm trying to build a Harlequin themed army.
No, but having just read The Masque of Vyle, I'd love to see what a competent game designer could do with a Solitaire.
Having played a purely Harlequin army in 2nd edition, I can say that the Solitaire could single-handedly wipe out half an army with the right wargear. Of course the game wasn't very well balanced back then.
Replace doom with the BRB Misfortune, and you've got the same thing. Perhaps there's even better powers given to the elda-specific chart. Whatever the case, shred would necessitate a pretty big points hike on dire avengers, much less everything else Eldar.
The Eldar function with SPEED and PRECISE firepower.
The fact that Gav "swallower" Thorpe was allowed to screw up the 3rd ed codex and then Phil Kelley had to follow suit and try to salvage that heaping pile of gargabe is just SAD.
Guardians werent made to assault. Even though there are model for them, Scorpions and Banshees fill the role. So to give them ASSAULT 12" weapons was IDIOTIC!!
Fix the Shuriken Catapult -- just make it Rapid fire 24" and Rending.
Cannons just bump up str and number of shots, Shrieker has the blast.
OR...
Totally get away from the Shuriken idea altogther and get back to the Lasblaster..
Has anyone played with the Corsairs list out of the Imperial Armor book?
THAT is how an Eldar army should work, not the crap the Gav made up...
Kirasu wrote: Strength 3 guns would be incredibly awful no matter if they were assault 3. You wouldn't be able to glance any vehicle or wound T7 at all. Re-rolls don't help when the chance is 0.
The problem with Eldar isn't their inability to wound things so shred is fairly pointless. We just need vehicles and units that are playable again. For an army that is supposed to one of the fastest instead Eldar is quite slow (at least with the units that are playable).
Still unsure why T8 wraithlords are a big deal as they were designed to be comparable to dreadnoughts yet T8 is only AV 11/12. Even T10 is easier to wound than a land raider.
Can't glance vehicles or wound T7? First fits the more specialized roles of the Eldar, and makes support weapons and various aspects more useful. Second only affects 3 models in the game right now- GUO, Talos, and Wraithlord base. All other MCs are T6 or less. Sure, Iron-Arm, but Eldar ought to have good psychic defenses, even if Runes of Warding is nerfed.
T8 Wraithlord is OK when you compare it to vehicles, but when you compare it to other MCs, it becomes a problem. Standard MC toughness is 6, with a few tougher ones at 7. Gargantuan Creatures tend to be tough 8 until you get into the big ones. If you want the Wraithlord to be a dreadnought equivalent, it should go back to being a walker. Or if you want it to be a MC, drop it to T6 like the rest of the similarly sized MCs. Yes, same toughness as Wraithguard, but they are made of the same material. Give it a 4th wound and a 5++ save to make up for the drop to T6. Then the new Wraithknight could be larger and tougher without being overly so- say T7 4-5 wounds 2+/5++
The Eldar function with SPEED and PRECISE firepower.
The fact that Gav "swallower" Thorpe was allowed to screw up the 3rd ed codex and then Phil Kelley had to follow suit and try to salvage that heaping pile of gargabe is just SAD.
Guardians werent made to assault. Even though there are model for them, Scorpions and Banshees fill the role. So to give them ASSAULT 12" weapons was IDIOTIC!!
Fix the Shuriken Catapult -- just make it Rapid fire 24" and Rending.
Cannons just bump up str and number of shots, Shrieker has the blast.
OR...
Totally get away from the Shuriken idea altogther and get back to the Lasblaster..
Has anyone played with the Corsairs list out of the Imperial Armor book?
THAT is how an Eldar army should work, not the crap the Gav made up...
You echo my thoughts precisely sir. And you are spot on about how the Corsairs work - Fast, hard hitting and elusive. With a points review, there is no reason why they can't become that force to be reckoned with they were intended to be back in the infancy of 40k.
Yup. Eldar used to be fragile troops that relied on above average Psychic powers and technology, even at the level of the basic infantry rifle. Their Catapults used to literally be the same stats as Storm Bolters, and the Shuriken Cannon/Shrieker cannon used to have a 36" range. Shuriken weaponry used to be something that they excelled at in 2nd ed, and since 3rd ed it sucks.
The problem is that it's too much like Rapid Fire.
It needs to be that no matter what the weapon's XX" range is that the first number for the weapons rate of fire is used when moving and the second number is for sitting still or being fired from a vehicle.
The Eldar function with SPEED and PRECISE firepower.
The fact that Gav "swallower" Thorpe was allowed to screw up the 3rd ed codex and then Phil Kelley had to follow suit and try to salvage that heaping pile of gargabe is just SAD.
Guardians werent made to assault. Even though there are model for them, Scorpions and Banshees fill the role. So to give them ASSAULT 12" weapons was IDIOTIC!!
Fix the Shuriken Catapult -- just make it Rapid fire 24" and Rending.
Cannons just bump up str and number of shots, Shrieker has the blast.
OR...
Totally get away from the Shuriken idea altogther and get back to the Lasblaster..
Has anyone played with the Corsairs list out of the Imperial Armor book?
THAT is how an Eldar army should work, not the crap the Gav made up...
AMEN AMEN AMEN
I actually stopped reading the HH series when Deliverence came out, cause I couldn't stand the idea of buying another Gav Thorpe PoS. Seriously, 12" catapults? Avatar with a 5+ and no shooting attack? 3rd codex was just bad. Then 4th did almost nothing to change the endemic problems Gav introduced. Except remove 3 shot Star Cannons. The 3rd edition codex was a prime example of swinging the pendulum wildly with no direction or reason.
What I'd like to see addressed in the new codex, but probably won't be, is the fact that we have two jump troops but neither is cc oriented. We have to cc units with no delivery mechanism. And, as above, 12" catapults which make absolutely no sense on our core troops.
The Shuriken Catapult is a mainstay weapon of the Eldar that's been around since Rogue Trader, with little change along the way (going from Sustained Fire Dice to Assault 2 is the biggest change I can think of).
I don't really think GW is going to change the strength of such an iconic weapon, and I would be really surprised if they did. I can see them changing the range and possibly the rate of fire, but not the basic gun.
We may see Exarch (or whatever they'll be called now) powers that add things like Fleshbane or Rending, which would be interesting and fun.
Lorek wrote: The Shuriken Catapult is a mainstay weapon of the Eldar that's been around since Rogue Trader, with little change along the way (going from Sustained Fire Dice to Assault 2 is the biggest change I can think of).
Didn't they go from a bolter equivalent with -2 armour save in RT, to sustained fire in 2nd, to rapid fire in 3rd to the short ranged assault 2 in 4th? Which basically means they were overhauled every Eldar codex.
Lorek wrote: The Shuriken Catapult is a mainstay weapon of the Eldar that's been around since Rogue Trader, with little change along the way (going from Sustained Fire Dice to Assault 2 is the biggest change I can think of).
Didn't they go from a bolter equivalent with -2 armour save in RT, to sustained fire in 2nd, to rapid fire in 3rd to the short ranged assault 2 in 4th? Which basically means they were overhauled every Eldar codex.
Nope. From 3rd Ed Codex on (can't remember if it was also in the main rulebook list), Shuricats have been 12" Assault 2 4/5.
Lorek wrote: The Shuriken Catapult is a mainstay weapon of the Eldar that's been around since Rogue Trader, with little change along the way (going from Sustained Fire Dice to Assault 2 is the biggest change I can think of).
I don't really think GW is going to change the strength of such an iconic weapon, and I would be really surprised if they did. I can see them changing the range and possibly the rate of fire, but not the basic gun.
We may see Exarch (or whatever they'll be called now) powers that add things like Fleshbane or Rending, which would be interesting and fun.
I'm not saying they will change it in this (I agree; they probably won't), but I still think they should.
Shuriken weapons are known for their rate of fire, rather than having the same strength as a 'bolt'; I think Str 3 Assault 3 better reflects this and even gives a greater damage output vs. your usual infantry. At Assault 24" (or arguably even 18") a str4 assault 2 is better than a bolter, and I think changing it as I describe gives it its own character, as well as the much needed increased range.
Warlock powers (exarch doesn't really affect Shuriken too much) that help would be neat, but a range boost is needed at least.
From Just Dave:At Assault 24" (or arguably even 18") a str4 assault 2 is better than a bolter
And?
The shuriken catapult was SUPPOSED to be better than a bolter. It was the same as a storm bolter. With 3rd it was different, but somewhat equivalent, but since rapid fire has gotten better with every edition, now it is far inferior. Storm bolter stats would be just about right. Then leave guardians where they are points wise.
From Just Dave:At Assault 24" (or arguably even 18") a str4 assault 2 is better than a bolter
And?
The shuriken catapult was SUPPOSED to be better than a bolter. It was the same as a storm bolter. With 3rd it was different, but somewhat equivalent, but since rapid fire has gotten better with every edition, now it is far inferior. Storm bolter stats would be just about right. Then leave guardians where they are points wise.
I don't think the standard Eldar weapon being superior to the standard Space Marine weapon is right. I don't even think a weapon that fires monomolecular discs should have the same strength as essentially a miniature rocket.
Again, at Str3 Assault 3 it's actually superior to a bolter against standard infantry; combine that with increased range and it'll help the Guardians and carve out their own niche. Their standard weapon simply shouldn't be the equivalent of the Grey Knights IMHO.
From Just Dave:At Assault 24" (or arguably even 18") a str4 assault 2 is better than a bolter
And?
The shuriken catapult was SUPPOSED to be better than a bolter. It was the same as a storm bolter. With 3rd it was different, but somewhat equivalent, but since rapid fire has gotten better with every edition, now it is far inferior. Storm bolter stats would be just about right. Then leave guardians where they are points wise.
I don't think the standard Eldar weapon being superior to the standard Space Marine weapon is right. I don't even think a weapon that fires monomolecular discs should have the same strength as essentially a miniature rocket.
Again, at Str3 Assault 3 it's actually superior to a bolter against standard infantry; combine that with increased range and it'll help the Guardians and carve out their own niche. Their standard weapon simply shouldn't be the equivalent of the Grey Knights IMHO.
The Grey Knights best weapon is that they're Grey Knights
I'd be happy with just a range increase on shuricats. I'd actually use them then - all the rumours sound just too good for me to believe.
I don't think the standard Eldar weapon being superior to the standard Space Marine weapon is right. I don't even think a weapon that fires monomolecular discs should have the same strength as essentially a miniature rocket.
Again, it has been far better than a Bolter before, I think there's no real reason it shouldn't be. But balance may come into it. Rending on Troops at such good range could get obscene, that's true. Shred might be a nice way to represent the blades.
It should be Assault with better range so they can constantly step away from combats that they don't want. That in itself is a powerful weapon.
I don't think the standard Eldar weapon being superior to the standard Space Marine weapon is right. I don't even think a weapon that fires monomolecular discs should have the same strength as essentially a miniature rocket.
Again, it has been far better than a Bolter before, I think there's no real reason it shouldn't be. But balance may come into it. Rending on Troops at such good range could get obscene, that's true. Shred might be a nice way to represent the blades.
It should be Assault with better range so they can constantly step away from combats that they don't want. That in itself is a powerful weapon.
I don't think 2nd Edition should be considered the standard to follow, personally.
Again, I don't think shred or rending are needed; an increased range (and other changes to emphasise their support role, that I won't go into) is enough, as you kind of said. If you make it Str3 Assault 3, it'll actually have a slightly improved damage output, which will combine well with increased range and their psychic powers - that's my suggestion.
And again, I don't see why blades should be as powerful as a 'bolt'.
Because in the vein of "sci fi tropes" that is a monomolecular blade being accelerated at a very high muzzle velocity. It is supposed to cut through things then tumble after hitting the target. Assuming you have the fantasy tech to make it, it could be a nasty weapon, good penetration and high damage to soft targets.
Just because something is rocket propelled doesn't make it the end al be all in weaponry.
Kyrolon wrote: Because in the vein of "sci fi tropes" that is a monomolecular blade being accelerated at a very high muzzle velocity. It is supposed to cut through things then tumble after hitting the target. Assuming you have the fantasy tech to make it, it could be a nasty weapon, good penetration and high damage to soft targets.
Something reflected through increased AP or RoF. Likewise, Str3 Assault 3 makes it better against these soft targets.
Just because something is rocket propelled doesn't make it the end al be all in weaponry.
I didn't say that. It being explosive doesn't mean that either, but it helps.
Imagining a storm of the sharpest razors imaginable, just barely wider than an atom, being propelled at ridiculous lay high speeds similar to a railgun. I can see how that would be extremely deadly. Also in this instance assault 3 doesn't mean 3 shots but 3 bursts of fire. So I can see how the accumulated strength can match a bolt and even why shred would be possible. As unlikely as it sounds.
But Bolters and Space Marines weren't what they are today in RT. They were just crooks, ruffians and low-lifes with too much aggression drafted into some space army. Calgar was raised as a Tyranid-slave boy and Ultramarines had an Eldar Librarian. So it might have made sense for Eldar Weapons to have been better back than. But even if the Eldar-background hasn't changed, the Space Marines (and Bolter) fluff sure did.
Zweischneid wrote: But Bolters and Space Marines weren't what they are today in RT. They were just crooks, ruffians and low-lifes with too much aggression drafted into some space army. Calgar was raised as a Tyranid-slave boy and Ultramarines had an Eldar Librarian. So it might have made sense for Eldar Weapons to have been better back than. But even if the Eldar-background hasn't changed, the Space Marines (and Bolter) fluff sure did.
2nd edition Marines were the same as they are now. 2nd edition Shuriken Catapults made bolters look like puke.
Zweischneid wrote: But Bolters and Space Marines weren't what they are today in RT. They were just crooks, ruffians and low-lifes with too much aggression drafted into some space army. Calgar was raised as a Tyranid-slave boy and Ultramarines had an Eldar Librarian. So it might have made sense for Eldar Weapons to have been better back than. But even if the Eldar-background hasn't changed, the Space Marines (and Bolter) fluff sure did.
My take on this would be that the catapults need to be even better today as the fluff for SM's has evolved. Eldar are a dying race they were meant as I understand it to represent an advanced society in decline but technologically advanced. That's why I am a fan of Eldar having lots of constructs powered by spirit stones, It wouldnt make sense IMO to keep them as a 40K race as small in number dying out weaker in technology etc essentially nothing going for them except perhaps advanced psychic ability.
(as GW never says anything official till just before it happens nowadays)
but it does seem a solid bet with most of the more reliable rumourmongers saying so
Macok wrote:Still, the rumours are really scarce considering that the codex (supposedly) will be around in ~3 weeks.
That's the thing though. For the HE release, we had a long list of new units and rules (most of which were fairly accurate) as well as, more importantly, a massive picture featuring most of the new releases. For Eldar, it seems we only have that plastic farseer and a few speculative guesses as to new units.
That actually makes sense and would think it is reasonable.
On that note, Reapers need their old anti tank missile launcher and give it skyfire as standard (Rangefinder Helmets of old).
Give Banshees some type of Exarch ability that makes them move like Beasts for a turn (assault delivery system) as this has been their biggest issue for years; no way to actually make it to assault.
I like Shred on Shuriken weapons; it fits 6th edition and also acknowledges how they were originally conceived. Dire Avengers with Bladestorm and Prescience cast would be just a brutal mid range shooting unit. Heck, Fire Warriors are throwing 24 S5 shots out at 30" now with a cheap IC upgrade.
Hawks are my favorite model and wish we'd get something usable, such as some ability to go after fliers and/or give decent shooting.
Spiders: please return the template to their weapon profile.
That's my major wish lists for updating the Aspect Warriors.
Yeah, id like to see templates come back to the Warp Spiders as well.
And the Anti-Tank Reapers would be nice again too.
I think having Hawks be able to assault flying vehicles would be cool, not really a swing at the vehicle as much as a barrage of EMP grenades...
Banshees are in DIRE need of a fix...I agree that the assault has not been kind to them since 3rd ed.
The Wave serpent needs an upgrade to allow it to become an ASSAULT vehicle. Exposing your weakest armor for a turn and hoping that the opponent doesnt blow the tank to shreds thereby forcing all kinds of armor saves on your fragile Banshees just sucked!!
I also want a VIABLE Avatar!! The current piece of crap just doesnt cut it...once during a game of 5th ed, my Avatar died to GROT BLASTERS!!!! He has been collecting dust since..
Make him..
Immune to all attacks that are less than his toughness...It is walking MOLTEN LAVA!!! Come on Man!!
2+ Armor , 5+ Invulnerable sounds fair. At least 4 wounds.
And the Wailing Doom needs to be a Melta 12" Str8 Blast
But Bolters and Space Marines weren't what they are today in RT. They were just crooks, ruffians and low-lifes with too much aggression drafted into some space army. Calgar was raised as a Tyranid-slave boy and Ultramarines had an Eldar Librarian. So it might have made sense for Eldar Weapons to have been better back than. But even if the Eldar-background hasn't changed, the Space Marines (and Bolter) fluff sure did.
All the basic Space Marine (and Bolter) fluff is the same now as it was in 2nd edition. None of what you listed existed after Rogue Trader. All the Ultramarines fluff, for instance, is exactly the same as 20 years ago. Most people playing the game nowadays were just in diapers back then.
Kyrolon wrote: Ooooo, I hadn't thought of HoW for mandiblasters. That's a good idea.
It is a good representation of the extra first hit thing.
I think banshee masks should make it so the unit they charge doesn't get overwatch. Seems a good 6th edition answer to what they do in the fluff. You get stunned while they come in and kill you.
Having two different charge abilities will help give more flavor to the two major CC aspects.
uberjoras wrote: Even the Tau rumors were pretty scarce, considering. In about 2 weeks we can expect leaked codex pictures, I imagine.
The end of this weekend should see better inklings of the rules. Next week, the preorders go up. So we should be seeing things the next few days. I don't know when WDs are received, but I assume next Wednesday area?
I think banshee masks should make it so the unit they charge doesn't get overwatch. Seems a good 6th edition answer to what they do in the fluff. You get stunned while they come in and kill you.
That would actually be a sweet way to update them for 6th edition. Too many assault units are defined by how effectively they can hit the enemy, the Banshee Mask was always about how it made enemies defenseless in the face of being assaulted.
The Shuriken Catapult is a mainstay weapon of the Eldar that's been around since Rogue Trader, with little change along the way (going from Sustained Fire Dice to Assault 2 is the biggest change I can think of).
The Sustained Fire/Assault 2 change is the least of the changes, notable being their range being dropped by 50%. Shuriken Cannons lost 12" of range, too.
I also want a VIABLE Avatar!! The current piece of crap just doesnt cut it...once during a game of 5th ed, my Avatar died to GROT BLASTERS!!!! He has been collecting dust since..
Make him..
Immune to all attacks that are less than his toughness...It is walking MOLTEN LAVA!!! Come on Man!!
2+ Armor , 5+ Invulnerable sounds fair. At least 4 wounds.
And the Wailing Doom needs to be a Melta 12" Str8 Blast
And bring back the Exodite Dragon Knights!!!
First time I fielded him, he died from loota fire and he stole the initiative to make things worse. The thing with the Avatar is he needs fortune because he just attracts sooo much fire so we really just need to raise his toughness to 8 and he will be good to go w/o fortune. You really should play with the Avatar though. He has not dissapointed me since that first day!
There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.
If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!
If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.
Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.
Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.
I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.
ClassicCarraway wrote: There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.
If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!
If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.
Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.
Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.
I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.
Lorek wrote: The Shuriken Catapult is a mainstay weapon of the Eldar that's been around since Rogue Trader, with little change along the way (going from Sustained Fire Dice to Assault 2 is the biggest change I can think of).
I don't really think GW is going to change the strength of such an iconic weapon, and I would be really surprised if they did. I can see them changing the range and possibly the rate of fire, but not the basic gun.
We may see Exarch (or whatever they'll be called now) powers that add things like Fleshbane or Rending, which would be interesting and fun.
But back in the day Guardians could choose lasguns instead for ranged punch.
Some sort of upgraded Eldar lasgun (S3 assault 2? like the lasblaster) would make sense. But that would mean remolding the 10+ year old guardians and GW has no interest in remolding basic kits.
ClassicCarraway wrote: There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.
If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!
If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.
Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.
Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.
I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.
ClassicCarraway wrote: There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.
If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!
If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.
Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.
Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.
I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.
You sir, are on crack.
Why, because I am not believing GW is going to reduce Guardians to 6-7 points and give them Rending or Shredding Stormbolters? Or because of the possible chance of one of the 3+ save units losing a point of armour?
ClassicCarraway wrote: There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.
If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!
If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.
Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.
Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.
I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.
You sir, are on crack.
Why, because I am not believing GW is going to reduce Guardians to 6-7 points and give them Rending or Shredding Stormbolters? Or because of the possible chance of one of the 3+ save units losing a point of armour?
No, because you obviously don't A: play eldar, B: know what they need, or C: know what "everybody else" wants.
If you played eldar, you would know they are bottom tier competetive with the newest tau release. As to all the wishlisting, deal with it, there are some genuinely good ideas in here.
And actually having guardians with terrible guns be cheap doesnt fit the fluff at all, so im sure quite a few people would be relieved to see guardians become what they are supposed to be.
Making Guardians better for their points (i.e. a better weapon) is just as balanced as keeping them the same but with a cheaper price tag. Eldar shouldn't be an army with cheap disposable troops. They are supposed to be the opposite of Imperial Guard.
ClassicCarraway wrote: There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.
If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!
If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.
Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.
Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.
I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.
You sir, are on crack.
Why, because I am not believing GW is going to reduce Guardians to 6-7 points and give them Rending or Shredding Stormbolters? Or because of the possible chance of one of the 3+ save units losing a point of armour?
I do apologize.
I see it as completely reasonable that guardians would get a 1 point drop along with a better shuriken weapon. I don't believe they'll have rending or shred, but I will agree that matching the base shuriken catapult to the DA is what should happen at bare minimum.. Have you looked at Kabalite Warriors? They're so much better than a guardian it's silly, and they're only 1 point more than guardians right now.
As for Warp Spiders, staying as jump meshes better with their fluff, unless you're going to give them a 2d6" in the movement phase. While the template would be awesome to get back, it would severely hinder their shooting from deep strike.
The last thing is that I think you're exaggerating when you say "pretty powerful" about the codex. The only thing in the entire codex that would qualify is Runes of Warding. War Walkers are good, but they're not something to be heavily nerfed, seeing as they're AV10 walkers with BS3. Wraithguard are slow AND expensive with ultra short-ranged, one shot, weaponry. It's only after you buff the group with fortune, conceal, and being lead by The Baron do they become good. Finally, Farseers are currently the best HQ for Eldar, I don't think there is any debate to that. Why? Because everything else is pretty mediocre. I don't know point costs for librarians or sorcerers, but would you consider them in need of a nerf?
The Eldar codex is ancient and I'm very excited to see what we have in store. After seeing how Tau were treated, I think you're underestimating what the Eldar will be getting.
ClassicCarraway wrote: There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.
If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!
If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.
Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.
Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.
I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.
You sir, are on crack.
Why, because I am not believing GW is going to reduce Guardians to 6-7 points and give them Rending or Shredding Stormbolters? Or because of the possible chance of one of the 3+ save units losing a point of armour?
No, because you obviously don't A: play eldar, B: know what they need, or C: know what "everybody else" wants.
If you played eldar, you would know they are bottom tier competetive with the newest tau release. As to all the wishlisting, deal with it, there are some genuinely good ideas in here.
And actually having guardians with terrible guns be cheap doesnt fit the fluff at all, so im sure quite a few people would be relieved to see guardians become what they are supposed to be.
Actually, one of my best friends plays Eldar, and I've faced him many, many, many times. The Eldar players keep clamoring about what Eldar "need" without actually taking into consideration that most of their units work just fine, and some of them are incredibly powerful. Guardians are basic troops, not elite units, and it is wishlisting to expect them to be armed with rending stormbolters standard issue, at a points reduction, no matter how you look at it.
To me, what Eldar "need" is for more of their unique aspect units to be unique again (ie, Warpspiders not just being more Strength 6 shots, Scorpions not being infiltrating Assault Marines) and for them to have a more focused identity that fits with the fluff. What everybody (ie, Eldar players) wants has no bearing on things. Chaos Daemon players want bloodletters and bloodcrushers with armour saves worth a damn, and to be rid of the Warpflame rule for Tzeentch units. Chaos Marine players wanted a laundry list of things before their codex came out, and they got none of it. DA and Tau players want fliers that are not pitifully under-armed in comparison to other armies. The new way of thinking for GW seems to be "every unit viable", but that doesn't mean "every unit OP", which, I'm sorry, but 6 point Guardians with rending stormbolters is a touch OP.
What's wrong with giving Guardians the same Shurikat that DA have? 18" Assault 2 is pretty nice for an army that is supposed to be very mobile. Or maybe just make them Rapid Fire and be done with it. Remember, those same things will be on jetbikes as well. Why does it HAVE to be a rending stormbolter in order to be considered good? Lets not forget the nice, mobile heavy weapons platforms Guardian squads get. Eldar are going to have a ton of options once the new book comes out, and I just don't see Guardians really getting a big upgrade. I foresee Aspect Warriors getting the upgrades, as that's where GW is going to want the focus on (especially if new multi unit plastic kits are part of the deal)
Am I the only one that absolutely does not want to see templates on Warp Spiders? That would inevitably mean they get a drop in strength, and I think it would hinder their role as a harassing unit. They'd lose effectiveness vs. vehicles, which is what they excel at now with deep striking, and lose a bit of range, making them more reliant on their assault jump to keep out of trouble, and making it less likely that they all even get to shoot. The one way I'd be happy about them getting templates is if they got a rule similar to the Night Spinner.
I think Guardians are at a good price where they are, they just need a bit of a boost.Up the range on a catapult by 6", give them one heavy weapon per 5 guys, and they're good to go, especially with new Warlock options.
Honestly, Banshees don't need any changes, as long as the Wave Serpent gets some sort of assault vehicle upgrade. They're fine how they are for the job they're supposed to do, it's their support systems that are lacking.
I think banshee masks should make it so the unit they charge doesn't get overwatch. Seems a good 6th edition answer to what they do in the fluff. You get stunned while they come in and kill you.
That would actually be a sweet way to update them for 6th edition. Too many assault units are defined by how effectively they can hit the enemy, the Banshee Mask was always about how it made enemies defenseless in the face of being assaulted.
Oooo, units charged by Banshees can't overwatch, Banshee masks count as Assault Grenades. Would be splendid I imagine!
-Catapult 18" range
-Avenger Catapult 24" range
-Shuriken Cannon 36" range
Wouldn't need anything else changed about them, IMHO. That simple change would appropriately but not over-overpoweringly buff Guardians, Dire Avengers, Jetbikes/Shrieker Jetbikes/Shining Spears, Vypers, War-Walkers, Wraithlords and all the twin-linked Catapults on the tanks. I'd love it.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Am I the only one that absolutely does not want to see templates on Warp Spiders? That would inevitably mean they get a drop in strength, and I think it would hinder their role as a harassing unit. They'd lose effectiveness vs. vehicles, which is what they excel at now with deep striking, and lose a bit of range, making them more reliant on their assault jump to keep out of trouble, and making it less likely that they all even get to shoot. The one way I'd be happy about them getting templates is if they got a rule similar to the Night Spinner.
I'm not saying your wrong about any of this, but (speaking fluffwise) aren't the webs the Spiders fire supposed to be really good at killing infantry? Therefore, if they are considered perfect vehicle hunters, somethings gone wrong. Fire Dragons are supposed to hunt vehicles aren't they?
Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.
Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.
uberjoras wrote: Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.
Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.
Nope! The Eldar are a DYING race which means they only send the most untrained, under equipped civilian soldiers (guardians) to die in battle. This strategy helps the Eldar race endure of course. I've been playing my Eldar since for around 17 years and I still have yet to see GW create a non-absurd reason why they go into battle with flimsy armor and gear as opposed to actually using their highly advanced technology to protect them (or gasp.. automate combat with more wraith-type warriors or robots of some type) .. I'd settle for the technology to illuminate distant objects or in layman's terms.. lights
The Eldar are surprisingly low-tech and psychically weak compared to most other armies. Go figure.
uberjoras wrote: Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.
Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.
Depends on which Eldar you mean tbh. Guardians are clearly going to be worse stat wise than a Marine because they have no real training but it wouldn't be hard to justify the Eldar Assault Aspects getting WS5 (but BS3 since that's how Aspects/Paths work, focus on a single discipline). Eldar are roughly the equivilant of High Elves in Fantasy, highly elite, specialised, well equipped with powerful magic (or psychic ability). None of the Eldar Aspects really reflect this though and it would be a major shift to see an army of largely WS5 assualt units and BS5 shooty units.
He knows that Shandara. He's saying that Guardians didn't choose Lasguns for greater ranged punch. The Lasgun was inferior. The Catapult outclassed the Storm Bolter in 2nd Ed.
gorgon wrote: Fortunately, the codicies thus far mostly suggest that we won't return to a 2nd ed level of brokenness for shuricats or other units and gear.
They weren't broken. Shurikats put Dire Avengers on an almost equal footing in a gunfight with Marines. Marines were still better overall.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Am I the only one that absolutely does not want to see templates on Warp Spiders? That would inevitably mean they get a drop in strength, and I think it would hinder their role as a harassing unit. They'd lose effectiveness vs. vehicles, which is what they excel at now with deep striking, and lose a bit of range, making them more reliant on their assault jump to keep out of trouble, and making it less likely that they all even get to shoot. The one way I'd be happy about them getting templates is if they got a rule similar to the Night Spinner.
I'm not saying your wrong about any of this, but (speaking fluffwise) aren't the webs the Spiders fire supposed to be really good at killing infantry? Therefore, if they are considered perfect vehicle hunters, somethings gone wrong. Fire Dragons are supposed to hunt vehicles aren't they?
Hm you've got me there, just being stubborn and resistant to change then . I still think it would be awesome for them to get a Night Spinner rule to really bog down enemy infantry.
Powerguy wrote:
uberjoras wrote: Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.
Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.
Depends on which Eldar you mean tbh. Guardians are clearly going to be worse stat wise than a Marine because they have no real training but it wouldn't be hard to justify the Eldar Assault Aspects getting WS5 (but BS3 since that's how Aspects/Paths work, focus on a single discipline). Eldar are roughly the equivilant of High Elves in Fantasy, highly elite, specialised, well equipped with powerful magic (or psychic ability). None of the Eldar Aspects really reflect this though and it would be a major shift to see an army of largely WS5 assualt units and BS5 shooty units.
If they did that, then by fluff it would make much more sense to be 5/4 or 4/5, rather than 5/3 or 3/5. In Path of the Warrior the Scorpions spend a lot of time training with their pistols, you can see that a close-combat aspect still puts in the time and the work to become exceptional shots. By the same logic I don't see why ranged aspects wouldn't also be trained in hand-to-hand combat, just in case.
Exactly, the new codex wave has set 14pts as the cost for a 4's across the stats, 3+ save, ATSKNF trooper with a boltgun. Hell even the pricing on Fire Warriors makes the Eldar troops look bad.
No-one is asking for rending stormbolter 6pt guardians as one person suggested, but at the moment their main rifle is pistol ranged and they are as tough as a guardsman. Ork Boyz weapons are accurate out to a longer range than guardians....
They either need to go down in price (pushing the dying Eldar race into a horde army for Craftworld themes like Ulthwe) or get better for their points. Making all Shuriken Catapults 18", assault 2, shred, would mean giving them firepower while keeping them delicate for game balance. GW has made their bed with them sending in cannon fodder units like guardians which are completely unfluffy.
If they at least gave guardians the ability to keep a bit of distance their fragility would be less galling, but when they have to close to pistol range to fire? They need the numbers so you are forced to deploy them in battle but you put them behind the real soldiers in a support role, not with a gun and only one magazine because hey, you'll never live long enough to fire it more than once...
And seriously, the person calling the Eldar codex powerful? It's ancient, overcosted and badly adjusted to the current ruleset. In an environment where both players are looking to win it's trumped by pretty much every book out there.
gorgon wrote: Fortunately, the codicies thus far mostly suggest that we won't return to a 2nd ed level of brokenness for shuricats or other units and gear.
They weren't broken. Shurikats put Dire Avengers on an almost equal footing in a gunfight with Marines. Marines were still better overall.
Who took Dire Avengers when Guardians with shuricats mowed down SMs like wheat while being fielded in uber-VP efficient sub-100 pt units? The second edition Eldar codex was almost certainly the most broken codex in any edition, and shuricat Guardians were among the worst offenders in that codex.
I'd have to agree with gorgon here. Being a 2nd Ed player myself and having the relevant Codices to hand, a Guardian with a Shuricat is 14pts, compared to a SM from the Ultramarines codex at 30pts each with a slightly inferior weapon (same stats without the sustained fire).
So for the cost of a Vanilla Tac Squad you could have nearly three times the amount of Guardians....
gorgon wrote: Who took Dire Avengers when Guardians with shuricats mowed down SMs like wheat while being fielded in uber-VP efficient sub-100 pt units? The second edition Eldar codex was almost certainly the most broken codex in any edition, and shuricat Guardians were among the worst offenders in that codex.
Let's not over state the claim. I was an Eldar player as far back as 2nd edition and I'll freely admit that the codex had broken units (though it's hard to claim guardians were the worst thing there with Warp Spiders staring you in the face).
But the most broken codex is and always will be the 2nd edition Space Wolf codex.
As for improving shuriken weapons, surely a reasonable improvement can be provided without making them OP. There is a very large grey middle ground that is possible between "useless" and "broken".
JOHIRA wrote: it's hard to claim guardians were the worst thing there with Warp Spiders staring you in the face
I completely agree with you on that one. They were the single best thing in any list.
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: I'd have to agree with gorgon here. Being a 2nd Ed player myself and having the relevant Codices to hand, a Guardian with a Shuricat is 14pts, compared to a SM from the Ultramarines codex at 30pts each with a slightly inferior weapon (same stats without the sustained fire).
So for the cost of a Vanilla Tac Squad you could have nearly three times the amount of Guardians....
As much as I would like to get into this (I want to work out the maths on this but I'll have to wait till I'm home with my codex's ) - we're off topic. We're in the eldar rumours thread. Can we continue this in another thread?
gorgon wrote: Who took Dire Avengers when Guardians with shuricats mowed down SMs like wheat while being fielded in uber-VP efficient sub-100 pt units? The second edition Eldar codex was almost certainly the most broken codex in any edition, and shuricat Guardians were among the worst offenders in that codex.
Let's not over state the claim. I was an Eldar player as far back as 2nd edition and I'll freely admit that the codex had broken units (though it's hard to claim guardians were the worst thing there with Warp Spiders staring you in the face).
But the most broken codex is and always will be the 2nd edition Space Wolf codex.
JOHIRA's right, of course!
We're all veering OT though too... so unless there are some actual rumors, or news, to discuss, it might be time to close up shop until there is?
We're all veering OT though too... so unless there are some actual rumors, or news, to discuss, it might be time to close up shop until there is?
The accurate Tau rules rumors started about a month before the release IIRC, so we're due for an increase of info any day now... assuming the June release is correct.
Its almost TOO quiet. Feels like the ultimate hastings troll (as unlikely as that is) and with Faeit still not up there seems to be no news feed at all. So I am gonna tempt fate here with a gamble. If no Eldar Codex is out within a month of now I will sell off all 30k points I have... and it better come out...
uberjoras wrote: Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.
Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.
Eldar are patient, swift, agile, and crafty. Marines are genetically engineered super beings that are stronger, faster, more athletic, and easily more ambitious. Being older doesn't offer an advantage beyond wisdom. The body and it's ability eventually plateau. It has limitations. Eldar spend more time hiding and travelling anymore than fighting. Eldar's ability lies more in the spiritual and psychic realm. You will see that in the upcoming codex, by the way. Marines are genetically enhanced, bred, and taught nothing but war. That's it. Eldar think about things beyond war. They exist for things other than war. They try to connect to dimensions and spirits outside of the physical realm. Space Marines don't. They know nothing else.
The stat-line of a marine basically showcases that they are better at everything, which is sufficient to fluff and reality. There's a reason for weight-classes in boxing, wrestling, and MMA. Just saying...
In physical competition, which is what the unit's stat-line represents (outside of Ld), Space Marines outclass Eldar in every way. Eldar should be superior to Imperial Guardsmen, who are remarkable humans in their own right, but not as skilled. Imperial Guardsmen are the base stat-line by which all other races are measured; not Space Marines. Factor in equipment and other abilities, and it's clear that Eldar troops are slightly better than Guardsmen. There is no place for an argument that a basic Eldar troop should have equal WS/BS to, and certainly not higher than, a Space Marine.
I disagree with parts of the above post. Being genetically superior to an average human is irrelevant when comparing to other races. Having power armour in addition I agree should represent an overall competitive unit but banshees should be better in melee for instance due to superior skill and technology. I agree in relation to guardians but not across the board.
uberjoras wrote: Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.
Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.
Eldar are patient, swift, agile, and crafty. Marines are genetically engineered super beings that are stronger, faster, more athletic, and easily more ambitious. Being older doesn't offer an advantage beyond wisdom. The body and it's ability eventually plateau. It has limitations. Eldar spend more time hiding and travelling anymore than fighting. Eldar's ability lies more in the spiritual and psychic realm. You will see that in the upcoming codex, by the way. Marines are genetically enhanced, bred, and taught nothing but war. That's it. Eldar think about things beyond war. They exist for things other than war. They try to connect to dimensions and spirits outside of the physical realm. Space Marines don't. They know nothing else.
The stat-line of a marine basically showcases that they are better at everything, which is sufficient to fluff and reality. There's a reason for weight-classes in boxing, wrestling, and MMA. Just saying...
In physical competition, which is what the unit's stat-line represents (outside of Ld), Space Marines outclass Eldar in every way. Eldar should be superior to Imperial Guardsmen, who are remarkable humans in their own right, but not as skilled. Imperial Guardsmen are the base stat-line by which all other races are measured; not Space Marines. Factor in equipment and other abilities, and it's clear that Eldar troops are slightly better than Guardsmen. There is no place for an argument that a basic Eldar troop should have equal WS/BS to, and certainly not higher than, a Space Marine.
you obviously never heard of the Beil Tan Craft World, nor the Ulthwe. Those two craft worlds blow your statements out of the water.
brassangel wrote: Eldar are patient, swift, agile, and crafty. Marines are genetically engineered super beings that are stronger, faster, more athletic, and easily more ambitious. Being older doesn't offer an advantage beyond wisdom. The body and it's ability eventually plateau. It has limitations. Eldar spend more time hiding and travelling anymore than fighting. Eldar's ability lies more in the spiritual and psychic realm. You will see that in the upcoming codex, by the way. Marines are genetically enhanced, bred, and taught nothing but war. That's it. Eldar think about things beyond war. They exist for things other than war. They try to connect to dimensions and spirits outside of the physical realm. Space Marines don't. They know nothing else.
The stat-line of a marine basically showcases that they are better at everything, which is sufficient to fluff and reality. There's a reason for weight-classes in boxing, wrestling, and MMA. Just saying...
In physical competition, which is what the unit's stat-line represents (outside of Ld), Space Marines outclass Eldar in every way. Eldar should be superior to Imperial Guardsmen, who are remarkable humans in their own right, but not as skilled. Imperial Guardsmen are the base stat-line by which all other races are measured; not Space Marines. Factor in equipment and other abilities, and it's clear that Eldar troops are slightly better than Guardsmen. There is no place for an argument that a basic Eldar troop should have equal WS/BS to, and certainly not higher than, a Space Marine.
I'm not sure you understand what WS/BS really are. Of course a genetically engineered super being is going to be stronger and tougher than an Eldar Aspect Warrior, that's just down to physical capability. But weapon and ballistic skill represent their level of training and ability. So yes, while a marine knows nothing but war and training for war, so does an Eldar while on the Path of the warrior (mostly). They can stay on this path for any amount of time, possibly longer than a marine's lifespan, and spend a large portion of it honing their skills and developing them to the point of near-perfection. Add to this that, when in combat, they don their war masks, which block out everything but the current fight, and you get a level of skill that I believe outclasses an average marine, but on a d6 system is about right as equaling them.
I think that people are missing the entire point of the discussion here.
Nobody is claiming that an Eldar should be physically more capable than a Space Marine (except perhaps in BS and definitely in Init, just from being more agile).
What I think people are missing, though, is that the Eldar have had forever and a half to improve their technology, whereas the Imperium has done everything they can to remain stagnant and even afraid of advancement.
With this kind of difference between the two, a Shuriken Catapult absolutely should be better than a Boltgun in its chosen, extremely specialized role (killing infantry). The Bolter, much like the Space Marine itself, is fairly archaic as well as more versatile (the explosive bolt is kind of overkill against meatbags but should be able to blow a tread off of a light tank).
That's pretty much why I feel that the best option for the ShurCat would be: 24" S3 AP5 Assault 2 Rending. If there was a way to give the Boltgun an extra point of Strength against vehicles due to its explosive capabilities, I'd do so.
Tbh you don't even need to take it that far. The basic Catapult catapult doesn't need to be better than the Bolter, I'm pretty sure that any Eldar player would be happy if the Catapult is simply as good as a Bolter, considering that at the moment its probably worse than a Lasgun. 24" S3 AP5 Assault 2 Rending would probably be good for the Avenger Catapult, just lose Rending for the Guardians.
Powerguy wrote: Tbh you don't even need to take it that far. The basic Catapult catapult doesn't need to be better than the Bolter, I'm pretty sure that any Eldar player would be happy if the Catapult is simply as good as a Bolter, considering that at the moment its probably worse than a Lasgun. 24" S3 AP5 Assault 2 Rending would probably be good for the Avenger Catapult, just lose Rending for the Guardians.
I would be happy with just a pure increase in range by 1' for all assault Shurikens aside from the pistol which SHOULD stay at 1'. I never understood why a Guardian rifle had the same range as a pistol.
Lets talk about Support Weapon batteries now though... anyone else think that the vibro and d-cannon should have a range increase (12" for vibro and 6" for d-cannon?) and an increase in str for the vibro and shadow weaver? Not to mention anything with a pie plate that is shuriken oriented should have the same stats as the Nightspinner, just varying on barrage and size of plate.
I don't really think the shadow weavers S should increase. Every other weapon of that kind is S6. (Spiders, night spinner) But I think it should have the same effects as the nightspinner. Force difficult and dangerous terrain tests and rend, but let the S remain at 6. It's not a bright lance
I wonder if they go the Deamon way and make warlocks more powerfull to boost ordinary infantry (the way daemonic heralds do). In other words, guardians and such get a point drop, but need to pay up 75-100 points of warlook to do a decent job.
That would also make wraithguards a horrible opponent, even with a T drop.
Webway portals with Assault ability would be great for the aspect warriors, and would surely piss the Dark Cousins of (but then again, they got all the goodies of our finest assault aspects put in one incubi choise).
I suppose they cant go to far from the DE codex when it comes to stats, but the craftworlders need some edge that dont just copy the DE awesome troops and open topped transport skimmers.
Powerguy wrote: Tbh you don't even need to take it that far. The basic Catapult catapult doesn't need to be better than the Bolter, I'm pretty sure that any Eldar player would be happy if the Catapult is simply as good as a Bolter, considering that at the moment its probably worse than a Lasgun. 24" S3 AP5 Assault 2 Rending would probably be good for the Avenger Catapult, just lose Rending for the Guardians.
Shred is a lot fluffier option for Shuriken weapons than Rending. Then give an extra shot for Avenger Catipults, and make Bladestorm extra shots maybe with pinning.
Banshees need a fix as well, but banshee scream preventing overwatch would help quite a bit. Give them power swords, but Rending as well.
Why would you give Banshees Rending, other than wanting them to perform vs TEQ? That's obviously not their role anymore, we have Harlequins for that. Banshees are dedicated MEQ killers, and they would do that job perfectly well in their current form if they had a decent way to get there.
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: I'd have to agree with gorgon here. Being a 2nd Ed player myself and having the relevant Codices to hand, a Guardian with a Shuricat is 14pts, compared to a SM from the Ultramarines codex at 30pts each with a slightly inferior weapon (same stats without the sustained fire).
So for the cost of a Vanilla Tac Squad you could have nearly three times the amount of Guardians....
I also have to agree being an old school second ed player, but I think the warp spiders were the most broken thing in that eldar codex, I played them alot.
In a desperate attempt to actually produce some news and rumours in this near rumourless thread, I trawled and came across the following that may have already cropped up but is probably buried in the Shuriken Catapult debate...
(Both from BoLS)
Latest word says Harlequins are unchanged from the Dark Eldar book - so apparently they are the constant link between both Eldar factions.
Current rumoured stats for the Wraithknight main gun (2 fire modes):
"Pulsar Lance" Primary fire mode: 36" S:8 AP2 Heavy 2, Lance
Overcharge mode (weapon may not fire next turn) 48" S:10 AP1 Heavy 1, Blast, Lance
Also, these are probably worth a re-post (ancient prototypes from 2007 but I'd reckon they'd be close to what a new jetbike would look like - assuming they are coming):
zedmeister wrote: In a desperate attempt to actually produce some news and rumours in this near rumourless thread, I trawled and came across the following that may have already cropped up but is probably buried in the Shuriken Catapult debate...
(Both from BoLS)
Latest word says Harlequins are unchanged from the Dark Eldar book - so apparently they are the constant link between both Eldar factions.
Current rumoured stats for the Wraithknight main gun (2 fire modes):
"Pulsar Lance"
Primary fire mode:
36" S:8 AP2 Heavy 2, Lance
Overcharge mode (weapon may not fire next turn)
48" S:10 AP1 Heavy 1, Blast, Lance
Also, these are probably worth a re-post (ancient prototypes from 2007 but I'd reckon they'd be close to what a new jetbike would look like - assuming they are coming):
Yes it is a repost, but I appreciate it anyway. I love the photos of those prototype models, I really hope we get something like that delivered.
I still do not like the idea of overcharging weapons, I hope that's not a current theme aside from Tau tech. I do understand it adds versatility to the arsenal without having to change weapons, but it seems gimmicky to me.
Kirasu wrote: I'm more amazed 2nd edition discussion is still going on in a 6th ed rumor thread..
Well, those of us who played Eldar then haven't been able to play Eldar since. They've removed that entire army from the game but taunt us by pretending it still exists.
As far as the "Overcharge" option on the Lance weapon...
I think its cool..very much like the two fire options of the old Plasma gun.
Now...Swooping Hawks...
Wouldnt it be cool to see them be able to drop grenades again on troops below them? They can do it now under the current codex, but its kinda weak...I would like to see a plasma grenade get dropped on units that get the "Fly over" ...kinda like the DE jetbike ability..
zedmeister wrote: In a desperate attempt to actually produce some news and rumours in this near rumourless thread, I trawled and came across the following that may have already cropped up but is probably buried in the Shuriken Catapult debate...
(Both from BoLS)
Latest word says Harlequins are unchanged from the Dark Eldar book - so apparently they are the constant link between both Eldar factions.
Current rumoured stats for the Wraithknight main gun (2 fire modes):
"Pulsar Lance"
Primary fire mode:
36" S:8 AP2 Heavy 2, Lance
Overcharge mode (weapon may not fire next turn)
48" S:10 AP1 Heavy 1, Blast, Lance
Also, these are probably worth a re-post (ancient prototypes from 2007 but I'd reckon they'd be close to what a new jetbike would look like - assuming they are coming):
As for the Harlequins, I had assumed they wouldn't touch them without a decent sized FAQ for the Dark eldar. While I would love to see what they'd do adding in a solitaire or bringing jetbike options to them, I think they're leaving well enough alone if they don't change them.
That prototype jetbike would cause an instant depletion of my bank account if it got released. WAY better than the current kit!
I am so tired of people whining about how "unplayable" Eldar are and that they're a bottom tier army. The top player in our city plays Eldar. He won a place to go to the last Tournament of Skulls GW put on. He also did very well there. Hone your skill, not your list. Yes, the Eldar codex has some crappy units. Reality check: Every codex they release has lousy units. I have played Eldar since Rogue Trader and have been through all the changes they've been subjected to. Yes, they need an overhaul. However, making shurikens rending, fleshbane, or any other special rule is ridiculous. You know how they can fix shurikens? Add 6" to their range and call it a day. They still have the best transports in the game. Sure it will be nice to see some point reductions but really, I don't think it needs much tweaking. Hopefully Eldar won't get boned like their Dark Kin did...
uberjoras wrote: Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.
Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.
Eldar are patient, swift, agile, and crafty. Marines are genetically engineered super beings that are stronger, faster, more athletic, and easily more ambitious. Being older doesn't offer an advantage beyond wisdom. The body and it's ability eventually plateau. It has limitations. Eldar spend more time hiding and travelling anymore than fighting. Eldar's ability lies more in the spiritual and psychic realm. You will see that in the upcoming codex, by the way. Marines are genetically enhanced, bred, and taught nothing but war. That's it. Eldar think about things beyond war. They exist for things other than war. They try to connect to dimensions and spirits outside of the physical realm. Space Marines don't. They know nothing else.
The stat-line of a marine basically showcases that they are better at everything, which is sufficient to fluff and reality. There's a reason for weight-classes in boxing, wrestling, and MMA. Just saying...
In physical competition, which is what the unit's stat-line represents (outside of Ld), Space Marines outclass Eldar in every way. Eldar should be superior to Imperial Guardsmen, who are remarkable humans in their own right, but not as skilled. Imperial Guardsmen are the base stat-line by which all other races are measured; not Space Marines. Factor in equipment and other abilities, and it's clear that Eldar troops are slightly better than Guardsmen. There is no place for an argument that a basic Eldar troop should have equal WS/BS to, and certainly not higher than, a Space Marine.
This seems like an amazing representation of Imperial propoganda as opposed to somebody knowing anything about the Eldar except that they live longer than humans....
Weight class in boxing, wrestling and MMA....but not in competition shooting or paintball. Remember that this game is 'supposedly' equally ranged combat as it is close combat and that technology plays no role in those types of combat. So don't forget the technological superiority of the Eldar race in even the simplest aspects of everday life would come into play even in close combat.
Also, let's see a wrestler outduel a world class swordsmaster.
It doesn't take a great deal of strength to utterly feth someone over. You can also do it with precise skill.
Sure, you can pound someone to mush with a baseball bat. That is mostly a strength approach, though some skill is involved if you want them to survive awhile while you are beating them.
Now take the baseball bat guy, and put him up against a little old man who has trained as a swordsmaster for the best part of a century. He isn't real strong any more, but it only takes a few ounces of pressure with a sharp edge to pierce skin. You just have to put that edge somewhere it will make a difference. That is a skill approach.
A 700 lb meatball with a bat is a lot less threatening when he is hamstrung and bleeding out from his carotid
Now i'm not saying Guardians should be WS/BS 4. I think they should be WS 3, BS 4 (they don't really engage in melee as much, but have better reflexes and time to practise shooting than humans generally get).
I'm perfectly happy with DE warriors being WS/BS 4 however, as they like to get dirty in CC and are supposed to be the best regular DE the archon had to take on a raid, and they actively train and fight constantly for these raids. It would make sense for them to have that extra pip in WS and a BS of 4.
Nocturnus wrote: I am so tired of people whining about how "unplayable" Eldar are and that they're a bottom tier army. The top player in our city plays Eldar. He won a place to go to the last Tournament of Skulls GW put on. He also did very well there. Hone your skill, not your list. Yes, the Eldar codex has some crappy units. Reality check: Every codex they release has lousy units. I have played Eldar since Rogue Trader and have been through all the changes they've been subjected to. Yes, they need an overhaul. However, making shurikens rending, fleshbane, or any other special rule is ridiculous. You know how they can fix shurikens? Add 6" to their range and call it a day. They still have the best transports in the game. Sure it will be nice to see some point reductions but really, I don't think it needs much tweaking. Hopefully Eldar won't get boned like their Dark Kin did...
I sincerely doubt this is true, or at least if it is, he had some pretty lousy opponents. Name a troop choice that can survive on an objective. Name a way to get around marketlights. Name a way to cast psychic powers while inside their "best transports in the game." Name, for that matter, a transport that allows you to assault out of it. Any army anyone brings to a tournament nowadays completely outclass eldar in EVERY way. The eldar had a couple of viable deathstars, but Tau fethed that plan. Wave Serpents and Falcons are terrible transports, because they just cost so much. They still drop like every other vehicle in 6th edition. And most important of all, how do they fight flyers? I do not mean to sound harsh, but you seem completely uninformed of the eldar's competetiveness. Without bringing in allies, the Eldar codex has NOTHING to interest a competetive player.
Nocturnus wrote: I am so tired of people whining about how "unplayable" Eldar are and that they're a bottom tier army. The top player in our city plays Eldar. He won a place to go to the last Tournament of Skulls GW put on. He also did very well there. Hone your skill, not your list. Yes, the Eldar codex has some crappy units. Reality check: Every codex they release has lousy units. I have played Eldar since Rogue Trader and have been through all the changes they've been subjected to. Yes, they need an overhaul. However, making shurikens rending, fleshbane, or any other special rule is ridiculous. You know how they can fix shurikens? Add 6" to their range and call it a day. They still have the best transports in the game. Sure it will be nice to see some point reductions but really, I don't think it needs much tweaking. Hopefully Eldar won't get boned like their Dark Kin did...
Have you looked at the national standings? Eldar aren't even close to the top 10. Eldar really only have one deathstar that is worth playing atm (evident in jy2's deathstar battles) and most people don't want to be redundant and play the same thing over and over. We are a one trick pony atm and until we have options we are even worse than the DE.
How did DE suffer with twin linked Poison weps? PLEASE enlighten me on this.
Um, DE generally don't have twin-linked poisoned weps
Talos tails and Razorwing nose and venom undergun are the only ones that come to mind, and aside from the talos (whose gun is already a cannon) the cannon is a better choice (and not twin linked )
DE got boned mainly in their assault end, as WWP got nerfed hard and overwatch murderises most DE. Their mobility took a small hit also, with the change to the vehicle rules, and vehicle explosions becoming S4 for opentopped rather than S 3 also hurt.
All right folks, I just have to say : rending is not a little black purse. It does not go with every outfit.
Harlequins have rending due to some ancient, rather brutal tech that flays you from the inside out. Snipers have rending because they can shoot you in the eye socket from 40 yards out. Just because guardians can spit bits of plastic at high speeds does not mean they should get rending - rending is a special thing, not just a way to improve every unit anyone has ever had a problem with.
If you want to show that eldar have better guns, do it through range, ap, extra shots... Not everything needs a special rule.
That prototype jetbike would cause an instant depletion of my bank account if it got released. WAY better than the current kit!
Indeed. I can see myself purchasing whole wads of them. If they do end up looking something like that, GW better have the stock levels to cope with demand...
Ascalam wrote: Um, DE generally don't have twin-linked poisoned weps
Talos tails and Razorwing nose and venom undergun are the only ones that come to mind, and aside from the talos (whose gun is already a cannon) the cannon is a better choice (and not twin linked )
DE got boned mainly in their assault end, as WWP got nerfed hard and overwatch murderises most DE. Their mobility took a small hit also, with the change to the vehicle rules, and vehicle explosions becoming S4 for opentopped rather than S 3 also hurt.
they have twin linked something that makes me sac a squig to the dice gods XD. Either way thought DE have poison which could potentially bring down a riptide and if not then just assault the damn thing. DE also have drugs (im sure from an HQ) but they still got drugs which is universal for the army and not to mention pain tokens....my god those are annoying...stupid parasite engine....
I'm really looking forward to the new codex but I'm nervous at the same time. Playing Eldar in 5th & and more so in 6th edition requires some skill which keeps the army under played as a whole. If the latest Tau craze is evidence to the future increased popularity of Eldar, than it might actually ruin Eldar for me. I hope they keep the difficulty level high so the army continues to be under represented or at least rewards those that like the challenge.
I want them all to myself. (insert evil laugh here)
You might want to look at the DE codex that whoever you are playing DE against is using..
The only twin-linked poison in the dex is the ones i mentioned, unless i'm missing something.
You can buy splinter racks for raiders, so that the guys inside can reroll to hit, but they are expensive to buy across a whole army, and the DE would have to sacrifice speed to be able to take advantage of them, since firing at above 6'' vehicle move doesn't work so well. If the DE are going that slow they are just asking for a fonging.
Yes, they have poison. It's their thing. Its poison 4+. It can bring down a Riptide (if you huck about a hundred shots at it) but then so can lasgun fire. It has a 50/50 chance of wounding and an AP of 5 - not that scary. Lootas can bring down a riptide too, at about even odds with DE poison. Plasma weapons, lascannons and melta can down one with ease. Riptides really aren't all that, and the DE speciality is downing MCs. Poisoned weapons do Jack all against vehicles however, and Bolters can down the best vehicles DE can bring, barring Vect's ride.
Thing is the poison is best against tough targets. If you are shooting at marines it['s no different from shooting bolters at them.
Combat drugs are NOT army wide. There is an HQ that allows you to reroll which drug is available, but they don't grant it to the whole army.
Pain tokens are ok. You do realise that outside of Haemie/coven stuff you have to kill a non-vehicle unit to earn one, right? DE aren't that good at doing that with non-vehicles and vehicles don't get the pain token. The Pain tokens aren't that much of a buff though, frankly. 5+ FNP is nice enough when your armour is 5+ also, but it's still nowhere as good as 3+ armoured BA with FNP, no token needed. Furious charge makes DE S4 on the charge. Big whoop. Nearly everyone else in the game is S 4 on the charge anyway. Fearless? Not always that great either for DE, even assuming you can actually GET 3 tokens for the same unit before it dies.
Parasite engines are a worry to you? Wy don't you just gun them down like EVERYONE else does. They are T 7, 3 W and 3+ armour. Not all that hard to kill.
Nocturnus wrote: I am so tired of people whining about how "unplayable" Eldar are and that they're a bottom tier army. The top player in our city plays Eldar. He won a place to go to the last Tournament of Skulls GW put on. He also did very well there. Hone your skill, not your list. Yes, the Eldar codex has some crappy units. Reality check: Every codex they release has lousy units. I have played Eldar since Rogue Trader and have been through all the changes they've been subjected to. Yes, they need an overhaul. However, making shurikens rending, fleshbane, or any other special rule is ridiculous. You know how they can fix shurikens? Add 6" to their range and call it a day. They still have the best transports in the game. Sure it will be nice to see some point reductions but really, I don't think it needs much tweaking. Hopefully Eldar won't get boned like their Dark Kin did...
Have you looked at the national standings? Eldar aren't even close to the top 10. Eldar really only have one deathstar that is worth playing atm (evident in jy2's deathstar battles) and most people don't want to be redundant and play the same thing over and over. We are a one trick pony atm and until we have options we are even worse than the DE.
How did DE suffer with twin linked Poison weps? PLEASE enlighten me on this.
The synergy of the Codex and the game mechanics of 6th ED makes DE a lesser option to take in tournament play, (IMHO) unless used as an Ally. They are still fun to play in casual games though.
Nocturnus wrote: I am so tired of people whining about how "unplayable" Eldar are and that they're a bottom tier army. The top player in our city plays Eldar. He won a place to go to the last Tournament of Skulls GW put on. He also did very well there. Hone your skill, not your list. Yes, the Eldar codex has some crappy units. Reality check: Every codex they release has lousy units. I have played Eldar since Rogue Trader and have been through all the changes they've been subjected to. Yes, they need an overhaul. However, making shurikens rending, fleshbane, or any other special rule is ridiculous. You know how they can fix shurikens? Add 6" to their range and call it a day. They still have the best transports in the game. Sure it will be nice to see some point reductions but really, I don't think it needs much tweaking. Hopefully Eldar won't get boned like their Dark Kin did...
Have you looked at the national standings? Eldar aren't even close to the top 10. Eldar really only have one deathstar that is worth playing atm (evident in jy2's deathstar battles) and most people don't want to be redundant and play the same thing over and over. We are a one trick pony atm and until we have options we are even worse than the DE.
How did DE suffer with twin linked Poison weps? PLEASE enlighten me on this.
As was pointed out, what twin-linked poison weapons? Also, where exactly does one find these "national standings"? I find it funny, as GW has stopped running tournies and am curious as to how these "standings" are tabulated. Also, the meta in our city is still that mech is king. No one, other than 'Nids, runs foot armies. So, while Poison is great against MC and high toughness INFANTRY, it does sweet F.A. against vehicles. Out of curiosity, what is the one Eldar build you are referring to? I can tell you that the player I am talking about runs a Swordwind army. No pyskers. No Wraithlords or guard. But, to each their own...
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Ascalam wrote: You might want to look at the DE codex that whoever you are playing DE against is using..
The only twin-linked poison in the dex is the ones i mentioned, unless i'm missing something.
You can buy splinter racks for raiders, so that the guys inside can reroll to hit, but they are expensive to buy across a whole army, and the DE would have to sacrifice speed to be able to take advantage of them, since firing at above 6'' vehicle move doesn't work so well. If the DE are going that slow they are just asking for a fonging.
Yes, they have poison. It's their thing. Its poison 4+. It can bring down a Riptide (if you huck about a hundred shots at it) but then so can lasgun fire. It has a 50/50 chance of wounding and an AP of 5 - not that scary. Lootas can bring down a riptide too, at about even odds with DE poison. Plasma weapons, lascannons and melta can down one with ease. Riptides really aren't all that, and the DE speciality is downing MCs. Poisoned weapons do Jack all against vehicles however, and Bolters can down the best vehicles DE can bring, barring Vect's ride.
Thing is the poison is best against tough targets. If you are shooting at marines it['s no different from shooting bolters at them.
Combat drugs are NOT army wide. There is an HQ that allows you to reroll which drug is available, but they don't grant it to the whole army.
Pain tokens are ok. You do realise that outside of Haemie/coven stuff you have to kill a non-vehicle unit to earn one, right? DE aren't that good at doing that with non-vehicles and vehicles don't get the pain token. The Pain tokens aren't that much of a buff though, frankly. 5+ FNP is nice enough when your armour is 5+ also, but it's still nowhere as good as 3+ armoured BA with FNP, no token needed. Furious charge makes DE S4 on the charge. Big whoop. Nearly everyone else in the game is S 4 on the charge anyway. Fearless? Not always that great either for DE, even assuming you can actually GET 3 tokens for the same unit before it dies.
Parasite engines are a worry to you? Wy don't you just gun them down like EVERYONE else does. They are T 7, 3 W and 3+ armour. Not all that hard to kill.
Exactly what he said! Thank you for being the voice of reason. Cheers.
Nocturnus wrote: I am so tired of people whining about how "unplayable" Eldar are and that they're a bottom tier army. The top player in our city plays Eldar. He won a place to go to the last Tournament of Skulls GW put on. He also did very well there. Hone your skill, not your list. Yes, the Eldar codex has some crappy units. Reality check: Every codex they release has lousy units. I have played Eldar since Rogue Trader and have been through all the changes they've been subjected to. Yes, they need an overhaul. However, making shurikens rending, fleshbane, or any other special rule is ridiculous. You know how they can fix shurikens? Add 6" to their range and call it a day. They still have the best transports in the game. Sure it will be nice to see some point reductions but really, I don't think it needs much tweaking. Hopefully Eldar won't get boned like their Dark Kin did...
Have you looked at the national standings? Eldar aren't even close to the top 10. Eldar really only have one deathstar that is worth playing atm (evident in jy2's deathstar battles) and most people don't want to be redundant and play the same thing over and over. We are a one trick pony atm and until we have options we are even worse than the DE.
How did DE suffer with twin linked Poison weps? PLEASE enlighten me on this.
As was pointed out, what twin-linked poison weapons? Also, where exactly does one find these "national standings"? I find it funny, as GW has stopped running tournies and am curious as to how these "standings" are tabulated. Also, the meta in our city is still that mech is king. No one, other than 'Nids, runs foot armies. So, while Poison is great against MC and high toughness INFANTRY, it does sweet F.A. against vehicles. Out of curiosity, what is the one Eldar build you are referring to? I can tell you that the player I am talking about runs a Swordwind army. No pyskers. No Wraithlords or guard. But, to each their own...
No psykers in an Eldar army is like a sausage sandwich without the sausage. How on earth can anyone play Swordwind Eldar in the current meta at all? Most aspects are over-priced, under-powered and very very squishy. Without a farseer you have no way of helping your army surviving whatsoever. Your player sounds fairly dubious. In regards to foot armies, I'm seeing a big increase in power blobs with a rune priest giving them atsknf, its pretty damn formidable.
In terms of Aspects, he runs Avengers and Fire Dragons. Multiple units of each, kept save and snug in their Wave Serpents until they are needed. Just because it's not used to what you're seeing, doesn't mean it's not out there. Regardless, I am not going to argue with you. I stand by what I said. Yes, Eldar need an overhaul. Badly. However, they are still competitive. It just requires a bit of creative thinking. You know, it just came to me. You want them to be broken and overpowered like Necrons or Tau. They certainly are not overpowered. And, I hope the new Codex is BALANCED, not stupidly powerful like Necrons. But, that's enough from me. Here's to hoping we hear some new rumors and see some new models very soon. Cheers.
I agree that they are still competitive and yes it does require some creativity to do so, I see some interesting lists pop up that are not cookie cutter wraithguard deathstars. On that tho I do feel Eldar need some special stuff, maybe a change to the shurikens, maybe a special universal rule, just something that really sets them apart all the while keeping them balanced. This overcharge rumor doesn't sit well with me, just feel GW might be using other armies tools to make Eldar seem better. Now what would be cool is if the weapon had a different profile depending on what type of unit it shot.
Eldar to me are meant to be difficult to play, a harsh learning curve that once passed allows for some seriously remarkable lists. An army that demands good players, not trendy lists.
Nocturnus wrote: In terms of Aspects, he runs Avengers and Fire Dragons. Multiple units of each, kept save and snug in their Wave Serpents until they are needed. Just because it's not used to what you're seeing, doesn't mean it's not out there. Regardless, I am not going to argue with you. I stand by what I said. Yes, Eldar need an overhaul. Badly. However, they are still competitive. It just requires a bit of creative thinking. You know, it just came to me. You want them to be broken and overpowered like Necrons or Tau. They certainly are not overpowered. And, I hope the new Codex is BALANCED, not stupidly powerful like Necrons. But, that's enough from me. Here's to hoping we hear some new rumors and see some new models very soon. Cheers.
I would simply like the army to function as it is described in the fluff. And no, i DONT want the army to be overpowered. When a codex is overpowered, it is hard to enjoy the game for either player. I started grey knights as my second army when i was still learning the game, because i love the grey knights backstory. Do you realize how often i was able to play a game without being referred to as some kind of cheater or moraleless player? I don't think you do know, but i'll tell you: it hurts. I had to basically shelve my favorite army for an entire year.
Also, i love the "creative thinking" bit. Especially when you say there is no farseer. So the warlord is a squishy, easy-to-kill autarch, or the avatar. I guess giving your opponent 'slay the warlord' and 'First blood' is what you call 'creative thinking.'
But seriously, while on the topic, hopefully in the new book a Farseer isn't mandatory. I don't want them nerfed, so much as other options buffed.
Hopefully the rumors about the Farseer dropping to 2 wounds is wrong. I hear you about Grey Knights. I still have my Rogue Trader ones kicking around. Back when it was 1500+ points for 5 guys...
Bell of Lost Souls has been hinting that there should be some new rumors anytime now.
Oh I should mention. In these parts we play 1000-1500 pt games. I should have mentioned that before. Sorry. I keep forgetting that a lot of groups in the US play 1850-2000. I wish we played games of that size. Time to wait with baited breath for some Eldar pics and rumors. Cheers.
Kind of disappointing that without a big FAQ Harlequins are going to be stuck in developmental limbo forever. It would be nice to have a real reason to take a Troupe Master.
Nocturnus wrote: In terms of Aspects, he runs Avengers and Fire Dragons. Multiple units of each, kept save and snug in their Wave Serpents until they are needed. Just because it's not used to what you're seeing, doesn't mean it's not out there. Regardless, I am not going to argue with you. I stand by what I said. Yes, Eldar need an overhaul. Badly. However, they are still competitive. It just requires a bit of creative thinking. You know, it just came to me. You want them to be broken and overpowered like Necrons or Tau. They certainly are not overpowered. And, I hope the new Codex is BALANCED, not stupidly powerful like Necrons. But, that's enough from me. Here's to hoping we hear some new rumors and see some new models very soon. Cheers.
So "creative thinking" is now defined as Avenger and Fire Dragon spam? Huh. Who knew?
Anyway, as its getting towards the end of may, I'd hope that photos will start to leak out over the next few days maybe?
The White Dwarf is released the last Saturday of the month. Leaks usually appear in the week leading up to that Saturday, usually around the Tuesday.
So, we should expect to see what's in the WD in 4-5 days. GW also releases the YouTube video teasers of army updates in the same week. So if we haven't seen any pictures or videos of Eldar in the next week, they're probably not coming in June.
Sad news, I just spoke to my retailer I typically go to, he said his distributor told him not to expect any of the Eldar in the first 2 weeks of their release. GW is so far behind in production that they have not even received any of their High Elves yet either...I hope some of you will be more fortunate in finding them then I will be, it sounds like GW production is a mess still and they are going to be taking care of their direct sales first and foremost.
This is what happens when you hire some random guy from a car company to handle your miniatures production queue when he has no idea on how much product to make.
Hey, GW is the "Porsche of miniatures!" People don't expect to get a Porsche just because they ordered one, right? Premium luxury goods sometimes take a while to get to you because they have to go through a lengthy craftsmanship process, not to mention the highest possible standards in quality control.
Besides, if you can't find GW products in your store, that just adds value. If you can actually find a High Elf product, that means you're part of the in-crowd who is connected, above the hoi polloi who have to buy their mandollies at the non-GWFLGS. Frankly, to justify the privilege of being able to buy a GW miniature after it's released, I think we need another price increase.
uberjoras wrote: "People couldn't possibly want all these expensive plastic army men... Cut production in half!"
Maybe he's just hardcore stereotypically racist? There were also problems with Tau, right?
"Space communist? Not on my watch!"
"Cosmic homosexuals? That's even worst! Won't somebody please think of the children!".
Nocturnus wrote: In terms of Aspects, he runs Avengers and Fire Dragons. Multiple units of each, kept save and snug in their Wave Serpents until they are needed. Just because it's not used to what you're seeing, doesn't mean it's not out there. Regardless, I am not going to argue with you. I stand by what I said. Yes, Eldar need an overhaul. Badly. However, they are still competitive. It just requires a bit of creative thinking. You know, it just came to me. You want them to be broken and overpowered like Necrons or Tau. They certainly are not overpowered. And, I hope the new Codex is BALANCED, not stupidly powerful like Necrons. But, that's enough from me. Here's to hoping we hear some new rumors and see some new models very soon. Cheers.
This list wouldn't do well in the high level tournaments that I've seen based on the prevalence of flyers. Tucked in a Waveserpent doesn't matter to a Vendetta or Nightscythe. And once out they are Armor 4+ and compelte fodder.
Now I'm not saying that Eldar are unplayable in the current ruleset...they are still playable and with strong generalship and some luck on your side...you can win against power build lists. But any knowing Eldar player won't expect to win...and know that their Codex is not going to win any major tournaments.
As has been said, Eldar's tournament trick currently is their moderate to severe deathstar. And that rarely wins games against full armies, but does well versus other deathstars.
Sorry I was bummed too. I realized I would probably have to actually pre-order the codex from GW's website, I lose a small part of my soul everytime I buy something direct. I would much rather support my independent retailers but I don't want to wait weeks to see changes.
MandalorynOranj wrote: Why would you give Banshees Rending, other than wanting them to perform vs TEQ? That's obviously not their role anymore, we have Harlequins for that. Banshees are dedicated MEQ killers, and they would do that job perfectly well in their current form if they had a decent way to get there.
You are right in that Harlies do that well, but I hate the fluff of the Harlies. So I hope the Banshees do still retain some TEQ ability(even if it is making the Exarch a monster versus them).
Kohala wrote: Sad news, I just spoke to my retailer I typically go to, he said his distributor told him not to expect any of the Eldar in the first 2 weeks of their release. GW is so far behind in production that they have not even received any of their High Elves yet either...I hope some of you will be more fortunate in finding them then I will be, it sounds like GW production is a mess still and they are going to be taking care of their direct sales first and foremost.
This is what you get when you don't deal directly with GW like every other store does.
Kohala wrote: Sad news, I just spoke to my retailer I typically go to, he said his distributor told him not to expect any of the Eldar in the first 2 weeks of their release. GW is so far behind in production that they have not even received any of their High Elves yet either...I hope some of you will be more fortunate in finding them then I will be, it sounds like GW production is a mess still and they are going to be taking care of their direct sales first and foremost.
This is what you get when you don't deal directly with GW like every other store does.
You get the leftovers.
Yeah, other than the tau fiasco, my store never has problems getting GW product, and we deal straight through them.
Banshees SHOULD be able to deal with TEQ since that kind of was their thing. You can't really shrug off the job in a specialist army to a type of unit that doesn't follow the same qualifications. Banshees were the Aspect that were supposed to show up scream and cut through heavy armor with a shower of fast low strength attacks. Harlies are not Aspect Warriors and shouldn't have to counted on for specific tasks. Hell, they might not even be at that Craftworld on the given day. So if not Banshees then hopefully another Aspect besides Fire Dragons will step up.
Redemption wrote: The White Dwarf is released the last Saturday of the month. Leaks usually appear in the week leading up to that Saturday, usually around the Tuesday.
So, we should expect to see what's in the WD in 4-5 days. GW also releases the YouTube video teasers of army updates in the same week. So if we haven't seen any pictures or videos of Eldar in the next week, they're probably not coming in June.
My gut tells me we won't see any of the same supply issues with Eldar as we did with Tau. Since we've seen a completed sprue, a month ago, even, I take the indication that GW are pretty much done casting, and barring a warpstorm on a freight boat, we shouldn't have to wait for our pointy eared space elderly.
uberjoras wrote: My gut tells me we won't see any of the same supply issues with Eldar as we did with Tau. Since we've seen a completed sprue, a month ago, even, I take the indication that GW are pretty much done casting, and barring a warpstorm on a freight boat, we shouldn't have to wait for our pointy eared space elderly.
I would sincerely like to believe that, but based on the trend that the last 3 releases (Chaos Daemons, Tau, High Elves) have been plagued with production delays, I would wager good money that this will have issues as well.
That and Hastings said the production issue was boxes, not casts.
It's not really in "financial trouble" it just isn't making the returns the would like on their investments. 40k tau models couldn't even stay in stock to fulfil orders (well that's not exactly true.... it was actually the printed boxes that ran out hence why some people received models in white citadel boxes) that never happens with any WFB release.
I really hope that they are actually happening, unless the Farseer was just for a one off type thing. Maybe GW are keeping tighter wraps on things now?
Tyranid Horde wrote: I really hope that they are actually happening, unless the Farseer was just for a one off type thing. Maybe GW are keeping tighter wraps on things now?
Or maybe, with the exception of that Farseer, the Eldar have finally all died.
Davor wrote: What are the chances of no release in June? That could be a reason of no leaks.
Why would that even be a thing? Why would anyone think that GW just flat out wouldn't have a release? I know their business sense leaves something to be desired, but I can't imagine any possible reason why GW would choose not to release anything new for a month.
Kohala wrote: Sad news, I just spoke to my retailer I typically go to, he said his distributor told him not to expect any of the Eldar in the first 2 weeks of their release. GW is so far behind in production that they have not even received any of their High Elves yet either...I hope some of you will be more fortunate in finding them then I will be, it sounds like GW production is a mess still and they are going to be taking care of their direct sales first and foremost.
or they finally found a way to drive traffic to their outlets and not to internet discounters...
Either way it hurts them in the long run since less places to buy means fewer new customers and overall fewer sales.
Tyranid Horde wrote: I really hope that they are actually happening, unless the Farseer was just for a one off type thing. Maybe GW are keeping tighter wraps on things now?
Or maybe, with the exception of that Farseer, the Eldar have finally all died.
Outstanding, i expect to see that in your sig shortly.
OT. I think that it would be odd for GW to not release anything in the month most of UK school kids go on their summer holidays from School and GW ramp up their events......
Tyranid Horde wrote: I really hope that they are actually happening, unless the Farseer was just for a one off type thing. Maybe GW are keeping tighter wraps on things now?
Or maybe, with the exception of that Farseer, the Eldar have finally all died.
Codex The One Surviving Farseer
Releases
Farseer - US$400 (AUS $10,000)
This will be EPIC!
...hey, I might actually get all of that painted before the next edition comes out and invalidates the army
Goobi2 wrote: If somehow he dies, Ynnead awakes and kill all the enemies of the Eldar. Dark Eldar will then rise into power and rule again. Rinse and repeat.
What are you talking about? The Last Farseer is Ynnead.
Holy cow! It could be Eldrad! Turns out he isn't dead, his mortal body was just gone. That can only mean one thing, he got sucked up into the warp. He's been wandering around in there, probably responsible for saving Draigo and making him look good (aka Draigo stealing credit). So all the Eldar are dead leaving a ticked off Eldrad who merges with the Infinity Circuit to complete and control Ynnead.
Goobi2 wrote: Holy cow! It could be Eldrad! Turns out he isn't dead, his mortal body was just gone. That can only mean one thing, he got sucked up into the warp. He's been wandering around in there, probably responsible for saving Draigo and making him look good (aka Draigo stealing credit). So all the Eldar are dead leaving a ticked off Eldrad who merges with the Infinity Circuit to complete and control Ynnead.
Fluff written, print it, sell it. Gold
Is it bad if I would be totally ok with Eldrad becoming a warp wandering super hero?
Goobi2 wrote: Holy cow! It could be Eldrad! Turns out he isn't dead, his mortal body was just gone. That can only mean one thing, he got sucked up into the warp. He's been wandering around in there, probably responsible for saving Draigo and making him look good (aka Draigo stealing credit). So all the Eldar are dead leaving a ticked off Eldrad who merges with the Infinity Circuit to complete and control Ynnead.
Fluff written, print it, sell it. Gold
Is it bad if I would be totally ok with Eldrad becoming a warp wandering super hero?
Kohala wrote: Sad news, I just spoke to my retailer I typically go to, he said his distributor told him not to expect any of the Eldar in the first 2 weeks of their release. GW is so far behind in production that they have not even received any of their High Elves yet either...I hope some of you will be more fortunate in finding them then I will be, it sounds like GW production is a mess still and they are going to be taking care of their direct sales first and foremost.
I doubt we get lots of remodeled aspects and stuff.
Jetbikes and Wraithguard might get redone, but based on the last couple of codex (and armybook) releases there will be a medium wave of new models, most of them brand new codex entries and some new modeled characters (like the farseer).
Since I didnt get any epic new greater daemons, as several rumours had promised me, I would not even trust the wraithguards to get a plastic remake just yet.
Anyway, the important thing for me is new rules (and a flyer would be nice!)
ph34r wrote: Is it bad if I would be totally ok with Eldrad becoming a warp wandering super hero?
As said above, Maugan Ra's got that covered by and large. He likes to go on solo-hikes through the Eye of Terror once in a while to clear his mind after single-handedly stopping entire Hive Fleets from making Planet-fall.
ph34r wrote: Is it bad if I would be totally ok with Eldrad becoming a warp wandering super hero?
As said above, Maugan Ra's got that covered by and large. He likes to go on solo-hikes through the Eye of Terror once in a while to clear his mind after single-handedly stopping entire Hive Fleets from making Planet-fall.
I hear he and Draigo are long time BFFs. God bless the little death dealing Emo
Fayric wrote: I doubt we get lots of remodeled aspects and stuff.
Jetbikes and Wraithguard might get redone, but based on the last couple of codex (and armybook) releases there will be a medium wave of new models, most of them brand new codex entries and some new modeled characters (like the farseer).
Since I didnt get any epic new greater daemons, as several rumours had promised me, I would not even trust the wraithguards to get a plastic remake just yet.
Anyway, the important thing for me is new rules (and a flyer would be nice!)
My wild guess tells me the following plastics are most probably the ones to appear:
It looks like something out of Robotech, really can't dicide if I like it or not. I guess it has lots of conversion potential, but just lokks kinda silly TBH.
).
not news at all, sorry
pistol.
