New necron player here. I just got the necron part from Indomitus and 20 extra warriors. Planning to add some Doom stalkers (love the model) as well as some wraiths.
How would you gear up your warriors? Don't like mixing though.
What would you add to the force? (Ps: don't like ghost arcs, so ugly :( )
At the moment the reapers are better for warriors. I do not think that the flayers will outperform them in the next year, even if we get a decent stratagem for them, so you probably should go with the assault weapon.
A second box of skorphekh destroyers and a unit of immortals would bring you together with two doomstalkers to a nice 1500p army.
I still use flayers though.
As a stay behind unit, to screen the doomstalkers.
Put a technomancer in between that buffs the doomstalkers and warriors and you have strong backbone.
Expensive yes. But it has worked for me. It probably will for others to.
savemelmac wrote: At the moment the reapers are better for warriors. I do not think that the flayers will outperform them in the next year, even if we get a decent stratagem for them, so you probably should go with the assault weapon.
A second box of skorphekh destroyers and a unit of immortals would bring you together with two doomstalkers to a nice 1500p army.
Thanks for the advice!
Why do people take immortals so often? Their fun does not appear to be that much of an improvement to warriors plus they are a smaller unit size.
Immortals do a good job of sitting on backfield objectives with their longer range guns. Wraiths are still good. Scarabs are considered one of the best units in the army.
Thanks for the advice!
Why do people take immortals so often? Their fun does not appear to be that much of an improvement to warriors plus they are a smaller unit size.
Are skarabs and wraiths still good?
Scarabs and wraith are still very good units. In general, we do not have many units that are bad enough that you would hamstring yourself by playing them, as far as general consensus goes. A few are very situational, like ophydian destroyers or the hexmark destroyer, but against the right target even they work very well.
I like immortals especially for their longer range gun and their smaller footprint on the table. It is much easier to fit 10 Immortals behind a wall or into a ruin than 20 warriors, and model for model they are much more durable. Also, a 5 man unit is the cheapest troop choice for us and therefore the easiest way to upgrade into a battallion without splitting the warrior units.
So the question about flayers Vs reapers comes down to how they are used I guess.
What about 2x 10 with flayers to pressure the midfield from my backline and to screen the stalkers and 20 reapers to rush up the board together with scarabs and wraiths?
With bs 3+ I think even advancing is a solid option for reapers.
Thinking about it.... Since most enemies would want to contest the mid objective, I don't think range will be much of an issue. Maybe 2x 20 reapers instead?
I used the immortals (5) as cheap troop choise.
But i started an crusade campaigne and have a unit of 10 immortals and now they really shine and made me appreciate them more.
Longer range, so faster rapid fire. Their weapon is good. Str 5 ap-2.
T5 is great. And, i only noticed now, they have 2 attacks!
So in cc they can punch back. With the +1 to hit from overlord and the +1str strata to hurt even more, they can really kill stuff in cc.
As for wraits, i think they are great. They are fast, can potentially charge first turn depending on mission and if you do a 6inch pregame move or not.
They can retreat and still shoot and charge. Which is great necause you probably charge a screen unit, retreat trough the unit to something more juicy to charge.and with str 6 and flat2 dmg they can kill stuff. I find it hard to leave these at home and in favor off skorpekh destroyers, altough taking both isnt a bad thing either.
So the question about flayers Vs reapers comes down to how they are used I guess.
What about 2x 10 with flayers to pressure the midfield from my backline and to screen the stalkers and 20 reapers to rush up the board together with scarabs and wraiths?
With bs 3+ I think even advancing is a solid option for reapers.
Thinking about it.... Since most enemies would want to contest the mid objective, I don't think range will be much of an issue. Maybe 2x 20 reapers instead?
Splitting the warriors into 10 man units is usually not worth it, unless you are putting them into a ghost ark. They are only so durable because of their RP and numbers, their base profile is not especially strong with T4 and Sv4+. Also, you have a much harder time buffing them with MWBD and cryptec auras, stratagems are less effective, etc.
If you want something to screen out the backfield, I would take scarabs. If you need something to hold backfield objectives, I like immortals and deathmarks. And if you want something to push up the board, big blobs of warriors and lychguard excel.
10 warriors in long range shooting with flayers pressure nothing, unfortunately. That is maybe 1 dead space marine or 4-5 dead guardsman, so not enough to really threaten anything on their own. I have 40 flayer warriors, but only because they were the only option when I started Today, I would build them either as all reaper or 20 reaper 20 flayer. And as long as you do not have differently equipped squads, you can always proxy one for the other. Nobody I know minds that, as long as it is clear from the start what is supposed to be what.
Well, I prefer reapers over flayers as they are better vs. Primaris.
The downside is the range but in the current incarnation of the game the center of the battlefield is the major spot and so range should not be a problem.
SK is a beat stick for an army with lots of Warriors.
20 man blobs of reaper warriors are for sure the way to go if you're considering running warriors. The smaller board size, coupled with the fact you can advance and fire (still hitting on 3s if you've buffed the unit with my will be done) actually gives these guys a very similar threat range to the flayers anyway, as well as more versatility.
They're surprisingly fast too, especially when buffed by a couple units with relentless march. Add an extra 1" from the sudden storm protocol and all of a sudden your warriors have a base 8" move. If you wanna take it even further you can use the 6" pregame move dynastic trait to have your warriors reliably move 14" turn one (before advancing) which really pushes their threat range through the roof!
lets not forget about the free movement you get from RP too. A model doesnt have to be set back up in the same position it was killed, it just needs to be put back in coherency. If you're running big blobs of warriors you have a much better chance to reanimating, and, therefore, a better chance of having your warriors string out onto far away objectives.
TheNEWnew wrote: 20 man blobs of reaper warriors are for sure the way to go if you're considering running warriors. The smaller board size, coupled with the fact you can advance and fire (still hitting on 3s if you've buffed the unit with my will be done) actually gives these guys a very similar threat range to the flayers anyway, as well as more versatility.
They're surprisingly fast too, especially when buffed by a couple units with relentless march. Add an extra 1" from the sudden storm protocol and all of a sudden your warriors have a base 8" move. If you wanna take it even further you can use the 6" pregame move dynastic trait to have your warriors reliably move 14" turn one (before advancing) which really pushes their threat range through the roof!
lets not forget about the free movement you get from RP too. A model doesnt have to be set back up in the same position it was killed, it just needs to be put back in coherency. If you're running big blobs of warriors you have a much better chance to reanimating, and, therefore, a better chance of having your warriors string out onto far away objectives.
My approach is 3x20 Warriors w/ reapers buffed by a SK and backed up by some shooty support and cc units at the 2000 pt level atm.
Hey guys. I have been away from competitive play and the meta ever since 9th launched, but am finally looking to build a new army for 2021.
Can anyone recommend any articles/videos/etc... that review all things Necron post-codex? I feel overwhelmed by the prospect of reading 30+ pages here, so some notes would be greatly appreciated.
So far, all I own are Szeras and the Cron half of three Indomitus boxes. With meta in mind, where do I go from here?
Are any of the new 9th Ed units competitive, as aesthetically I love stuff like the new Skorpekhs.
From the indomitus box alone it's not very easy to get a competitive list.
Useful are the Warriors, preferably with reapers, Scarabs, and Skorpekhs including the Lord.
I'd run at least 2x20 Warriors and 1x5 or 1x6 Skorpekhs.
Scarabs are good for screening units or holding objectives if possible.
So what purchases am I looking to make if I want to try a stab at competitive Necron? Silent King, Void Dragon, etc...? I'm able to throw a few hundo at 40k this week, but want to avoid buying duds.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: So what purchases am I looking to make if I want to try a stab at competitive Necron? Silent King, Void Dragon, etc...? I'm able to throw a few hundo at 40k this week, but want to avoid buying duds.
Good luck finding anything. Necrons are heavily sold out.
It all depends on the style of army you want, too. There's so many interesting ways to build Necrons beyond the soup du jour.
The goonhammer guides are pretty exhaustive on this matter and as far as I can tell quite accurate. If you want summed up advice, probable the best address to start.
savemelmac wrote: The goonhammer guides are pretty exhaustive on this matter and as far as I can tell quite accurate. If you want summed up advice, probable the best address to start.
Not super familiar with them, but I will look 'em up. Thanks!
If you want/need good anti Tank go for the LHD 3w3 damage is 6 in average. We got nothing as good as this to kill the Tanks.
You could otherwise look at Bloodofkittens. They always post the newest lists wich at least placed Top3.
Daedalus81 wrote: Are people running Skorpekhs as 6 mans? It seems required to get them anywhere since 3 mans got cleared pretty easily.
Any strong opinions on doing a sling shot on Convergence into the back field for Linebreaker / Engage?
I guess more importantly - what secondaries are people usually taking against marines?
I'm firmly in the 6 man skorpekh camp. I know some people like running 5 to avoid blast but, IMO as one of our strongest counter punch units you want them to be punching back as hard as possible. A hammer for your anvil as it were. A unit of 6 is a natural target for the chronomancers 5++ and re-roll charges too
I run mine with the plasmacyte and often keep a CP in my back pocket just in case you do roll a 1. For 15pts extra having every model get +1S and +1A certainly makes a difference when you need to guaranteed delete something off an objective.
As for secondaries it depends on the army your fielding. I've really liked the changed to While we Stand seeing as you can now slap it onto a very durable unit of 20 warriors (and put them into reserves for a couple turns if you really need to). Having said that, plasma inceptors are one of the few things that can rinse through a full warriors unit in a single round so I might not necessarily take that against marines.
The other option i really like at the moment is Purge the Vermin. Because its scored at the end of your turn it gives you a decent chance to clear anything that does pop its head up in your backfield/unwanted table quarters.
Necrons are a great board control army as is, and with proper screening you can get 10/12 VP from this in 3 turns pretty reliably.
In general I think those warrior spam lists are great at sitting in the midboard and saying "if you dont come a deal with me, im gonna steal your points". So, if you build those lists around controlling your half of the board, while being able to deny your opponent big points on primary, you've got a strong base to win the game with from there
They're surprisingly fast too, especially when buffed by a couple units with relentless march. Add an extra 1" from the sudden storm protocol and all of a sudden your warriors have a base 8" move. If you wanna take it even further you can use the 6" pregame move dynastic trait to have your warriors reliably move 14" turn one (before advancing) which really pushes their threat range through the roof!
You can’t benefit from Relentless March more than once per unit. Same named Auras don’t stack.
I run mine with the plasmacyte and often keep a CP in my back pocket just in case you do roll a 1. For 15pts extra having every model get +1S and +1A certainly makes a difference when you need to guaranteed delete something off an objective.
Just a quick note: you can't re-roll the Plasmacyte roll. The re-roll strat has a very specific range of things it applies to now. Plasmacytes are still good though, especially with alrge squads. Even if you roll a 1 you still get the buff and that more than compensates for the loss of a single Skorpekh in almost all cases.
I run mine with the plasmacyte and often keep a CP in my back pocket just in case you do roll a 1. For 15pts extra having every model get +1S and +1A certainly makes a difference when you need to guaranteed delete something off an objective.
Just a quick note: you can't re-roll the Plasmacyte roll. The re-roll strat has a very specific range of things it applies to now. Plasmacytes are still good though, especially with alrge squads. Even if you roll a 1 you still get the buff and that more than compensates for the loss of a single Skorpekh in almost all cases.
You're absolutely right, thank you!
You can’t benefit from Relentless March more than once per unit. Same named Auras don’t stack.
Where's it say they cant stack bro? I might be being slow but i cant seem to find that rule anywhere?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Thanks for the suggestions everyone. In addition to the stuff I mentioned yesterday, I just cleaned out my FLGS and grabbed...
2x boxes of Lychguard (are they or Praetorians a smarter build right now?)
The Silent King
Catacomb Command Barge
Praetorians are great / probably better than lych gaurd but I just went for 10 of each. Lych are more tanky and are core for some neat combos. Pretorians are elite killers and are fast but not as durable.
Silent king is great but not mandatory.
I would go ahead and get a Ctan too as they provide fun gameplay.
So many ways to play this army man - just buy everything or buy the stuff you think is coolest. Even the Monolith is quite good if you are into that.
I actually also got the Shard of the Void Dragon, as I have wanted to paint it ever since I saw it. Ironically, ruleswise, it is the one I least want to actually run.
I know GW shortages are supposed to be awful, but between my FLGS and non-scalper Ebay, I had a surprisingly easy time getting everything I want, thus far.
I definitely blew through my budget though, and am eager to try all this stuff.
Let's talk Night Scythes and Prismatic Dimensional Breach for a sec.
The Night Scythe can carry 20 models, but then this stratagem pulls from reserves. So if I so wanted I could put a Technomancer and 10 Lychguard in the Nightscythe and then drop 20 Warriors into reserve.
Then on turn 1 I fly the Night Scythe along my table edge since I can't drop them turn 1 and I just need to keep it safe. Then on turn 2 I pivot and go for their objectives/linebreaker and dump these guys out after I moved. Then on turn 3 I dump the techno and lychguard.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Thanks for the suggestions everyone. In addition to the stuff I mentioned yesterday, I just cleaned out my FLGS and grabbed...
2x boxes of Lychguard (are they or Praetorians a smarter build right now?)
The Silent King
Catacomb Command Barge
Lychguard are the stronger overall choice right now if you build them with swords and shields. Praetorians are decent units too but are a little more match-up vulnerable, whereas Lychguard have no real situations where they're "bad" (however they are more expensive pointswise)
Either of them can work though, so go with what unit appeals to you the most visually or lore-wise, or even what you might want to include in your list gameplay wise. Praetorians are very much independent units that do their own thing and have a little bit of flexibility in their role, whereas Lychguard can be amplified and buffed to very high levels while essentially being a resilient melee beatstick unit.
Daedalus81 wrote: Let's talk Night Scythes and Prismatic Dimensional Breach for a sec.
The Night Scythe can carry 20 models, but then this stratagem pulls from reserves. So if I so wanted I could put a Technomancer and 10 Lychguard in the Nightscythe and then drop 20 Warriors into reserve.
Then on turn 1 I fly the Night Scythe along my table edge since I can't drop them turn 1 and I just need to keep it safe. Then on turn 2 I pivot and go for their objectives/linebreaker and dump these guys out after I moved. Then on turn 3 I dump the techno and lychguard.
Do I have that right?
Sure? I think I’d rather put nothing in the Nightscythe, put the Lychguard in Reserve, and give the Technomancer a Veil of Darkness to bampf the Warriors over. This way they can all show up at the same time, and using Prismatic Breach on the Lychguard let’s them show up right next to the enemy in easy charge range. I’m planning something similar, but in my version it’s a Monolith and Royal Warden.
So the Prismatic breach looks good on paper but I think is often quite tricky to pull off in practise literally because of the amount of space you have on the board, especially if your aiming for your opponents backfield.
Against a canny opponent, no way are they gonna leave you a gap big enough to fit what would be about a third of your army, between the scythe, lychgaurd and warriors (at 2k points) into their backfield.
That said, its certainly not impossible, just pretty tricky, especially in early to mid game.
Using the Night Scythe to quickly push a weak flank and pin your opponent back while providing a real short charge for the lychguard IMO would have more play, especially when then backed by veiling the warriors
AduroT wrote: My general plan is more Veiling the Warriors on turn one to try and establish a foothold and clear a landing zone for the Monolith on turn two.
Yeah that could work, especially if you go first and block off a bunch of the board. Ghost Arks are real good for that sort of thing too 12" move with fly is real nice
The monolith seems so good this edition, i just wish it wasn't a lord of war
AduroT wrote: My general plan is more Veiling the Warriors on turn one to try and establish a foothold and clear a landing zone for the Monolith on turn two.
This works! My main battle plan at this point if I don't bring a ctan.
AduroT wrote: My general plan is more Veiling the Warriors on turn one to try and establish a foothold and clear a landing zone for the Monolith on turn two.
I don't have my dex to hand right now, but does this mean you can DS the pyramid and then Prismatic Breach in the same turn?
AduroT wrote: My general plan is more Veiling the Warriors on turn one to try and establish a foothold and clear a landing zone for the Monolith on turn two.
I don't have my dex to hand right now, but does this mean you can DS the pyramid and then Prismatic Breach in the same turn?
Sure? I think I’d rather put nothing in the Nightscythe, put the Lychguard in Reserve, and give the Technomancer a Veil of Darkness to bampf the Warriors over. This way they can all show up at the same time, and using Prismatic Breach on the Lychguard let’s them show up right next to the enemy in easy charge range. I’m planning something similar, but in my version it’s a Monolith and Royal Warden.
Oh - excellent point - thanks!
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TheNEWnew wrote: So the Prismatic breach looks good on paper but I think is often quite tricky to pull off in practise literally because of the amount of space you have on the board, especially if your aiming for your opponents backfield.
Against a canny opponent, no way are they gonna leave you a gap big enough to fit what would be about a third of your army, between the scythe, lychgaurd and warriors (at 2k points) into their backfield.
That said, its certainly not impossible, just pretty tricky, especially in early to mid game.
Using the Night Scythe to quickly push a weak flank and pin your opponent back while providing a real short charge for the lychguard IMO would have more play, especially when then backed by veiling the warriors
Yea it is definitely a make-a-hole strategy. I need enough shooting to reach the place I want to go on the next turn. A couple Night Scythes for redundancy have reasonable chaff clearing of their own with some arcing. I do like the idea of beachhead of lychguard.
The other upshot is that it will make them lean less into my side of the board.
AduroT wrote: My general plan is more Veiling the Warriors on turn one to try and establish a foothold and clear a landing zone for the Monolith on turn two.
I don't have my dex to hand right now, but does this mean you can DS the pyramid and then Prismatic Breach in the same turn?
Because I thought you couldn't.
Yes, you can.
Both the strat and the monoliths DS happen in the reinforcements phase, so as long as you place the monolith first you should be golden.
It certainly seems intended to work that way at least. Picturing that happen is pretty cool from a fluff perspective either way lol
AduroT wrote: My general plan is more Veiling the Warriors on turn one to try and establish a foothold and clear a landing zone for the Monolith on turn two.
I don't have my dex to hand right now, but does this mean you can DS the pyramid and then Prismatic Breach in the same turn?
Because I thought you couldn't.
Yes, you can.
I thought Prismatic was "before" deepstriking. Oh snap. It is reinforcements. Neat.
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TheNEWnew wrote: The monolith seems so good this edition, i just wish it wasn't a lord of war
What do you like about it? Last I saw people kind of panned it for being too expensive and vulnerable for what it can do.
What do you like about it? Last I saw people kind of panned it for being too expensive and vulnerable for what it can do.
A lot of my enthusiasm for it comes from the new FAQ, its giving up less VP, is now cheaper then the nightbringer and at 24 T8 wounds a decent target for while we stand, especially if you drop it in from reserves.
I also like the movement tricks it can pull, plus I'm generally a fan of using vehicles to block part of the board for a turn or two
On top of that its an iconic necron model that I wish was still a heavy support
The Monolith being a LoW, not getting dynasty benefits, and losing FLY in boards that are much more terrain tense, has lost a ton of it's appeal. It's actually got a fair amount of firepower, and is even a CC threat. It's just not enough to make up for the LoW issue.
I'd be a lot more open to playing it if it wasn't a LoW, but alas, here we are. To date, the Monolith and the Terrain piece are the only Necron models to not have been sold out online at the GW at some point. That kind of paints a picture and hope it makes GW considering making an Errata for it at some point, though unlikely.
Darsath wrote: My bigger issue with the Monolith is that it doesn't get Dynasty benefits if it's run at just 1.
The biggest issue is that it doesnt have FLY, which makes it pretty much immobile. A fuel pipe or barricade stops it dead in its tracks, the monolith cannot end its move on top of it, because of unstable position.
Patrol Detachment 0CP (Necrons)
Configuration
Detachment Command Cost
Dynasty Choice
Selections: Dynasty: Szarekhan
No Force Org Slot
Dynastic Advisor
Technomancer
Selections: Canoptek Control Node, Rarefied Nobility, Warlord Trait (Codex 4): Thrall of the Silent King
HQ Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Hand of the Phaeron, Staff of Light, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Szarekhan): The Triarch's Will
Chronomancer
Selections: Aeonstave
Troops
Immortals
Selections: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Necron Warriors
13x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer)
Selections: 13x Gauss Flayer
Elites
C'tan Shard of the Void Dragon
Selections: Power of the C'tan: Sky of Falling Stars
Heavy Support
Canoptek Doomstalker
Canoptek Doomstalker
Patrol Detachment -2CP (Necrons)
Configuration
Battle Size
Selections: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Dynasty Choice
Selections: Dynasty: Szarekhan
HQ Royal Warden
Selections: Dynastic Heirlooms, Relic: Veil of Darkness
Skorpekh Lord
Troops
Necron Warriors
20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer)
Selections: 20x Gauss Flayer
Elites
Skorpekh Destroyers
Selections: Skorpekh Destroyer (Reap-Blade)
4x Skorpekh Destroyer (Thresher)
Selections: 4x Hyperphase Threshers
Heavy Support
Canoptek Doomstalker
My Plan is to shoot the Flyers as fast as possible and then focus on the bikes and Defkopta. After that he is pretty slow and I hope to get the rest done easy. The 20 Warrior troup is supported by the Royal Warden. And to grap a backfield objective turn 2-3. depends how fast he is moving forward and if I get the right spot. My C‘tan wants to fight the Mek Guns.
I hope my Plan is not that bad. Do you got some tips for me?
Thanks anyway.
Patrol Detachment 0CP (Necrons)
Configuration
Detachment Command Cost
Dynasty Choice
Selections: Dynasty: Szarekhan
No Force Org Slot
Dynastic Advisor
Technomancer
Selections: Canoptek Control Node, Rarefied Nobility, Warlord Trait (Codex 4): Thrall of the Silent King
HQ Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Hand of the Phaeron, Staff of Light, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Szarekhan): The Triarch's Will
Chronomancer
Selections: Aeonstave
Troops
Immortals
Selections: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Necron Warriors
13x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer)
Selections: 13x Gauss Flayer
Elites
C'tan Shard of the Void Dragon
Selections: Power of the C'tan: Sky of Falling Stars
Heavy Support
Canoptek Doomstalker
Canoptek Doomstalker
Patrol Detachment -2CP (Necrons)
Configuration
Battle Size
Selections: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Dynasty Choice
Selections: Dynasty: Szarekhan
HQ Royal Warden
Selections: Dynastic Heirlooms, Relic: Veil of Darkness
Skorpekh Lord
Troops
Necron Warriors
20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer)
Selections: 20x Gauss Flayer
Elites
Skorpekh Destroyers
Selections: Skorpekh Destroyer (Reap-Blade)
4x Skorpekh Destroyer (Thresher)
Selections: 4x Hyperphase Threshers
Heavy Support
Canoptek Doomstalker
My Plan is to shoot the Flyers as fast as possible and then focus on the bikes and Defkopta. After that he is pretty slow and I hope to get the rest done easy. The 20 Warrior troup is supported by the Royal Warden. And to grap a backfield objective turn 2-3. depends how fast he is moving forward and if I get the right spot. My C‘tan wants to fight the Mek Guns.
I hope my Plan is not that bad. Do you got some tips for me?
Thanks anyway.
Grot shield only works when the grot are the colsest unit. Try to weil the warriors in a position where you can avoid it. Also. Do not shoot from the front to the orks until you clear the grtos as you would be wounding t4 rather than 2.
Also. Grots fail morale by just looking at them. Better to take out a few from each unit to force the ld check. They are ld 4.
Focus the bomber as it can deal 3MW in 6" in a kamikaze attack (and bomb the warriors while at it).
Flash gits have only 24" range but can be extended to 36" for 2cp.
Darsath wrote: My bigger issue with the Monolith is that it doesn't get Dynasty benefits if it's run at just 1.
The biggest issue is that it doesnt have FLY, which makes it pretty much immobile. A fuel pipe or barricade stops it dead in its tracks, the monolith cannot end its move on top of it, because of unstable position.
Oh yeah dont get me wrong, the monolith still has plenty of problems to fix before it becomes a truly competitive choice, but since the FAQ I'm much happier to give it a go especially locally. It's actually pretty killy after all
And you never know, GW have been pretty attentive so far this addition, if they want to sell a bunch they might just slap FLY on it again. Heres hoping anyway
You deepstrike it and try to pull a turn 2 charge. Not having fly is not an issue in the least. Or you just start in on the table and use it for area denial and fire support. It's special rules have not been of much use to me as of yet but it has certainly won some games just by blowing things off the table. 24 wounds 2+ save is actually really durable. It's melee is automatic and awesome. I've only played it with mini deathrays too - with gauss I think it might actually perform better for 20 points cheaper.
I'm working on getting my second assembled so I can run with silent king and then they will get dynasty traits. Seems pretty dirty.
Interesting discussion about prismatic dimensional breach.
However, Night Scythe and Monolith are not the most competitive choices.
Moreover, I've seen too often (from a Necron player in our group) that the VoD-gating of a 10 men Lychguard incl. Lord fails to survive long enough.
So this is not an option for me.
I'm more interested to ''gate'' two large Warrior units with reapers wrecking havoc in the enemy deployment zone.
Any ideas how to accomplish this with VoD but without prismatic breach?
Play Nephrekh. Veil one blob of twenty Warriors with the character of your choice. Use the Nephrekh Strategem to Deep Strike additional blobs for 1 CP a piece.
Yeah this seems to be the only other option for cheap movement tactics for warriors (it saves you a CP when compared to reserving 20 warriors normally) outside of what we've already discussed.
Otherwise there's always things with innate DS like ophydians and flayed ones
AduroT wrote: Play Nephrekh. Veil one blob of twenty Warriors with the character of your choice. Use the Nephrekh Strategem to Deep Strike additional blobs for 1 CP a piece.
Indeed, Nephrekh is an option.
It allows to move an additional block of Warriors around.
So I watched a game of white scars vs DG recently, where the white scars player fielded attack bikes and basically did a really good job of kiting the DG player.
Admittedly the death guard player wasn't fielding Mortarion but it got me thinking regardless - speed is clearly gonna be one of the better ways of dealing with them.
On that note, I think tomb blades might get a new lease of life. I know a few people are keen on them already, but i can certainly see a lot of those SK core builds leaning into them a little more
My dreams of a necron melee tournament build took a hit with the new death guard codex. How do you build for a metta full of multi wound space marines and spoiler -1dmg deathguard?
Silver tide with plasmancers and gauss bikes seems like an ok TAC answer but what about a melee army? The loss of efficiency in any 2d option hurts. A bunch of lychguards to out attrition deathguard? I’m at a total loss for dealing with morty. He alone seems to invalidate melee crons.
Lychguard x10 sword n board
Lychguard x10 sword n board (Best veil target)
Luchguard x10 warscythes (reserved for dimensional breach)
Skorpekh x6
Plasmacyte
Cryptothralls x2
Cryptothralls x2
Wraiths x 4
Works for either novokh or relentless conquerors (tm).
Nightscythe takes a lap on your back line before diving in on turn two when you can double drop the warriors and scythguard, chronomancer and shieldguard can join to keep up protocols or go elsewhere depending.
Again this is trying to tailor for space marines and death guard, if you’re playing a horde army just deploy straight up and challenge them to take you off of objectives and use veil late game. If the scythguard end up having to walk on late that suits while we stand we fight. Not the end of the world now that we walk on from the flanks.
5++ and reroll charges from chronomancers seems like a total win, need characters to spread protocols anyway as long as the ccb is alive.
Might be able to kite Morty with all the deployment/deep strike shenanigans but idk, if there’s a center objective you’re just in trouble. No critical auras or rerolls at least.
Would love to hear about how to make a tourney melee army viable.
I don't think Night Scythe shenanigans is ever going to be a good idea for a serious list. If you go second that Night Scythe could easily get shot down first turn and you've lost 2 units deployment tricks. If you reserve the Scythe then PDB doesn't really get you much as you can be screened out too easily.
Reaper Warriors are by far the best target for a Veil.
I'm a big fan of sword and board Lychguard, and they seem quite good against Death Guard. They are probably the best thing crons have to tarpit Morty. It seems rude not to have a res orb and technomancer to support them though. You could swap the CCB for an overlord with the Orb of Eternity.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't have a Gauss cannon on the CCB, it goes much better with the Voltaic Staff (which counts as a tesla weapon for the purposes of Malevolent Arching anyway). The CCB is the only HQ we have that can do anything impressive by itself, but that's because the HQs are meant to be support units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's a hastily thrown together list going all in on ObSec sword and Board Lychguard:
Spoiler:
Battalion: Eternal Expansionists
Overlord, Orb of Eternity, Reroll charge aura trait
Technomancer, Canoptek Control Node, Thrall, Veil of Darkness
Technomancer, Voltaic Staff
10 x Lychgauard, Shields
10 x Lychgauard, Shields
10 x Lychgauard, Shields
9 x Scarabs
9 x Scarabs
9 x Scarabs
5 x Immortals, Gauss
5 x Immortals, Gauss
5 x Immortals, Gauss
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer, Gauss Destructor
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer, Gauss Destructor
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer, Gauss Destructor
The Lychguard and Scarabs provide a huge pile of ObSec meat to take midfield objectives. The Immortals and Destroyers camp backfield objectives, perform actions, outflank and take up space as required, whilst still providing some fire support.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I don't think Night Scythe shenanigans is ever going to be a good idea for a serious list. If you go second that Night Scythe could easily get shot down first turn and you've lost 2 units deployment tricks. If you reserve the Scythe then PDB doesn't really get you much as you can be screened out too easily.
Reaper Warriors are by far the best target for a Veil.
I'm a big fan of sword and board Lychguard, and they seem quite good against Death Guard. They are probably the best thing crons have to tarpit Morty. It seems rude not to have a res orb and technomancer to support them though. You could swap the CCB for an overlord with the Orb of Eternity.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't have a Gauss cannon on the CCB, it goes much better with the Voltaic Staff (which counts as a tesla weapon for the purposes of Malevolent Arching anyway). The CCB is the only HQ we have that can do anything impressive by itself, but that's because the HQs are meant to be support units.
IMO scarabs buffed by a 5++ are faaar more points efficient for tar pitting morty. A unit of 8 scarabs is 120pts (still under half the cost of a full 10man unit of lychgaurd) and literally cannot be killed by Mortarion in a single turn even if he shoots, smites and charges them. Unless you've gone wide on lychgaurd like the above list, personally i would never send them into him unless i thought i had a good chance of picking up the kill.
I agree with what you said about the nightscythe though, but I still think its in the best position its been in a long time - people favouring shorter range antitank because of the smaller board size certainly favours it. Having said that, to pull of the strat consistently I think you need to run two, at which point most people are unwilling to invest the points.
The thing is when you build armies around strats like the prismatic breach, they have a tendency to full flat on their face when said tactic doesn't go off. Its certainly not bad, but is it gonna win you every game? Definitely not
Automatically Appended Next Post: The other thing is, with the assumption you're being affected by the -1 toughness aura, and Morty is using his reap attack, he actually wounds scarabs and lychgaurd at the same rate, hitting on 2s, and wounding on 2s
Scarabs are a great tarpit too, but without the 5++ Morty will wipe 8 bases with ease in combat. Lychguard have a chance of holding him for multiple rounds with support (he only kills 4 in combat and one gets up). A Ghost Ark could probably slow him down a bit too.
EDIT: The -1 Toughness aura does make it a little worse, but he still kills less than half the unit on average.
Of course, using a near 300 point unit as a tarpit will never be ideal!
Yeah i hear you man, but its still only 200pts for 8 scarabs and a chrono.
If its the 4++ that's making Lychgaurd efficient without support then wraiths are better at that too - a unit of 5 wraiths is cheaper and with 15 wounds still has a high chance of stalling morty for 2 turns. As you mentioned, a ghost Ark is pretty efficient here too.
My point is that Lychgaurd are a big investment and a unit of 10 on the charge can easily make their points back else where on the board.
Maybe that mindset is better when running a single unit of lychguard but i'd prefer to have my chaff screening bog Morty down 80% of the time
Which unit holds morty for the greatest number of rounds per point spent is more maths than I'm willing to do, my gut tells me it's Lychguard, but it may not be (20 Flayed ones with -1 to hit, Reanimator Beam, Chronometron and res orb support?!).
I don’t know that I care about the Orb of Eternity. Best case scenario you’re rolling nineteen dice. That’s like, average three 4s, maybe four once you get the Warriors rerolling 1s. For a once a game effect, it doesn’t seem worth the Relic slot to me. I’d rather have the every turn Voltaic/Solar staff.
4s re-rolling ones is like a 67% chance for your warriors coming back dude. If you're looking at it from a points perspective, chances are you'll make your points back off it. To be honest even with 5s re-rolling 1s, chances are you'll make your points back off it
I dont think the res orb is an auto take, the relic res orb especially, but situationally can be very powerful.
IMO our two best relics are veil and voltaic staff
I look at it as being 1 CP to give +1 to my res orb rolls. You can have 3 relics at 2000pts, so the only limit is the number of characters to put them on. The list I posted above has all 3 of the decent relics for example.
On a slightly related note: the Canoptek Re-animator combos well with a res orb, and is a bit more attractive with the latest points cut.
At 2000pts, with three characters, my plans is Overlord with the Voltaic staff, Warden with the Veil, and Technomancer with the Solar staff.
I’d rather my Overlord was killing a couple extra things a turn than bring back a couple extra of my guys once. Techno’s Solar is to be slightly more killy, but more for denying Overwatch with two units of Lychguard in there, and any shenanigans the Warriors get up too.
AduroT wrote: At 2000pts, with three characters, my plans is Overlord with the Voltaic staff, Warden with the Veil, and Technomancer with the Solar staff.
I’d rather my Overlord was killing a couple extra things a turn than bring back a couple extra of my guys once. Techno’s Solar is to be slightly more killy, but more for denying Overwatch with two units of Lychguard in there, and any shenanigans the Warriors get up too.
I'm not too much into lumbering HQ's.
Therefore, CCB is always mandatory in my armies.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I don't think Night Scythe shenanigans is ever going to be a good idea for a serious list. If you go second that Night Scythe could easily get shot down first turn and you've lost 2 units deployment tricks. If you reserve the Scythe then PDB doesn't really get you much as you can be screened out too easily.
Reaper Warriors are by far the best target for a Veil.
I'm a big fan of sword and board Lychguard, and they seem quite good against Death Guard. They are probably the best thing crons have to tarpit Morty. It seems rude not to have a res orb and technomancer to support them though. You could swap the CCB for an overlord with the Orb of Eternity.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't have a Gauss cannon on the CCB, it goes much better with the Voltaic Staff (which counts as a tesla weapon for the purposes of Malevolent Arching anyway). The CCB is the only HQ we have that can do anything impressive by itself, but that's because the HQs are meant to be support units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's a hastily thrown together list going all in on ObSec sword and Board Lychguard:
Spoiler:
Battalion: Eternal Expansionists
Overlord, Orb of Eternity, Reroll charge aura trait
Technomancer, Canoptek Control Node, Thrall, Veil of Darkness
Technomancer, Voltaic Staff
10 x Lychgauard, Shields
10 x Lychgauard, Shields
10 x Lychgauard, Shields
9 x Scarabs
9 x Scarabs
9 x Scarabs
5 x Immortals, Gauss
5 x Immortals, Gauss
5 x Immortals, Gauss
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer, Gauss Destructor
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer, Gauss Destructor
Lokhust Heavy Destroyer, Gauss Destructor
The Lychguard and Scarabs provide a huge pile of ObSec meat to take midfield objectives. The Immortals and Destroyers camp backfield objectives, perform actions, outflank and take up space as required, whilst still providing some fire support.
I think your opinion on the night scythe is lazy and outdated. The current metta is short range anti tank for marines, if it rides your back line for a turn I think it has a good chance of survival due to range and the -1 to be hit. Your army deploys in front of it, what are you assuming is going to wipe it out before you get a turn? If they overcommit to getting in range and putting enough volume into it to get past the neg to hit...fine! If it does get blown up first turn then you get to deploy your warriors in your deployment zone, not a huge loss. It’s being deployed literally all the way back in one of your corners, facing sideways. Can be the very last unit you set up. There is counter play, it’s not automatically dead first turn.
The voltaic staff has the same rule as Tesla but it doesn’t have the Tesla keyword so no, you can’t use the malevolent arcing strat with the voltaic staff. He will probably take the voltaic staff but you need the actual Tesla to use the Tesla strat.
The reaper warriors are being deployed with the nightscythe. If you end up having to emergency deploy in your backfield then the veil is an option for them but I like 10 lychguard with a 2+4++ who are rerolling charges much much better, he can put the 5++ on the warriors turn 3. You are ignoring the intent of the list to say warriors make the best veil target. It’s an option but not the best option. If this list is Novak you’re rerolling an 8 with a bunch of charging bonuses and strat support. This is a melee list, it’s about putting your melee units in good position. The warriors out of the night scythe are to knock down screens and be hard to get to past your melee units who are also deepstriking. Veiling warriors unsupported is a waste of one of your few characters who are providing protocols. 20 warriors and 20 lychguard and a chrono, with night scythe move blocking with its base, now you’re doing something worth doing.
As I said in the op, if the scythguard have to walk on (the side of the board) that’s not a huge deal, way less punishing than having to walk on from the back of your deployment zone.
Solo heavy destroyers feel like a waste, imo they need to be buried in a unit of destroyers or they can just be picked off, 4 wounds at t5 is going to die to bolt rifles. Even though you have the 30 lychguard your list doesn’t feel like a melee list. The technomanners are wasted in your list. The scarabs don’t need the support, he can’t keep up. You don’t have warrior blocks to benefit off rites of reanimating. The 5++ from the chronomancer will save more lychguard than the techy will revive and the reroll charges is crazy good. Techys are for warrior blobs or babysitting doomstalkers (or spyders).
Thanks for your input but your opinions seem to be better suited to 8th than 9th.
I think your opinion on the night scythe is lazy and outdated...
Yes, a lot of lists don't have long ranged anti tank units anymore, and in many games your night scythe will be fine sitting in a corner turn one. But some lists will have ways of taking out a night scythe on turn one, and a competitive tournament list can't go for a strategy that only works most of the time.
Also, are you aware that the Warriors get out before the Scythe moves? So you have to park it close to the enemy for a turn before the warriors can get out. Your opponent will no doubt expedite their disembarkation.
As I said in the op, if the scythguard have to walk on (the side of the board) that’s not a huge deal
I'm sure it'll be fine. Expensive, slow assault units walking on from the side of the board is a common strategy employed in tournaments.
The voltaic staff...
Already corrected.
The reaper warriors are being deployed with the nightscythe. If you end up having to emergency deploy in your backfield then the veil is an option for them but I like 10 lychguard with a 2+4++ who are rerolling charges much much better, he can put the 5++ on the warriors turn 3. You are ignoring the intent of the list to say warriors make the best veil target. It’s an option but not the best option. If this list is Novak you’re rerolling an 8 with a bunch of charging bonuses and strat support. This is a melee list, it’s about putting your melee units in good position. The warriors out of the night scythe are to knock down screens and be hard to get to past your melee units who are also deepstriking. Veiling warriors unsupported is a waste of one of your few characters who are providing protocols. 20 warriors and 20 lychguard and a chrono, with night scythe move blocking with its base, now you’re doing something worth doing.
Veiling Novokh Lychguard with a reroll charge is another thing that will often work, but not reliably enough for a tournement list to build around. 20 Reaper Warriors with Chronometron support is the best thing crons can veil. You definitely get to stick 40 S5 AP-2 shots into your target, reliably. You then also have a chance of another 40 S5 AP-1 attacks if you make a charge.
Solo heavy destroyers feel like a waste, imo they need to be buried in a unit of destroyers or they can just be picked off, 4 wounds at t5 is going to die to bolt rifles.
I'm not going to recommend LHD in any form really. My thinking there was that they are small infantry units for camping backfield objectives and performing actions. Crypto-thralls are the traditional choice for the role, but for 30 pts extra you get a big gun. Die to bolt rifles? You may want to invest in a calculator.
Even though you have the 30 lychguard your list doesn’t feel like a melee list. The technomanners are wasted in your list. The scarabs don’t need the support, he can’t keep up. You don’t have warrior blocks to benefit off rites of reanimating. The 5++ from the chronomancer will save more lychguard than the techy will revive and the reroll charges is crazy good. Techys are for warrior blobs or babysitting doomstalkers (or spyders).
The techies are there for resurrecting Lychguard (the control node was to use up some points). Chronomancers would be a bit of a waste on units with 4++...
Wow such negativity. First of all, I was asking for help making melee crons work for facing marines and death guard. I’m not set on that list. If you don’t like my list, fine but you arnt helping with what I’m asking, how to make a melee list that works for marines and death guard.
If you think heavy destroyers are great swell, what’s that got to do with my melee list? Everybody was laughing/crying about the reanimators survivability but it’s got two more wounds than a heavy destroyer for 10 more points. I’m not interested in either. If I wanted anti tank for my melee list I’d much prefer a stalker, they can be deployed aggressively and don’t mind being in combat. A stalker has valuable attacks, an extra point of toughness, quantum shielding and 4 more wounds than 2 heavy destroyers. Did I say how many bolt rifles? They move 6 and have a 30” range and will be closer to you than whatever tank you’re hoping to be shooting them at. I won’t be buying heavy destroyers. “Any good opponent” won’t let them los everything but their juicy target.
I say your night scythe criticism is out of date because it’s an actual transport now. If it dies turn one, you pile out in your deployment and be thankful their anti tank wasn’t taking out all the elite melee infantry coming at them instead. When you move it into position turn two, if they blow it up after you move it up YOU PILE OUT WHERE YOU WANTED TO BE ANYWAY. It’s a transport, transports are good in 9th. Anything in the game can get blown up, on any turn does that mean there is nothing worth taking? The nightscythe is literally the least consequential item in the whole army. If they focus on that instead of the massive melee threats in the rest of the army then fine. It doesn’t hurt as much as you’re making it out to be.
Chronomancers 5++ is wasted on the shieldguard but the reroll charges out of deepstrike (veil) sure isnt. The skorpekhs would sure love a 5++ and reroll charges, as would the scythguard on turn turn three. Or the warriors.
Coming in off the side isn’t as bad as you make it out to be because it’s a massive threat That’s going to make your opponent avoid quite a bit of territory off both table edges or risk being charged (and then 1-shot) when you walk on. A lot of missions have objectives on either side of center. At the very very least, they can wait till turn 4 and be aces for while we stand we fight/ engage on all fronts or taking out something you need to for purge the vermin. If there is terrain they can deploy in/ hide behind what’s going to come dig them out? Chances are you’ll get the charge.
As you would already know if your night scythe got the job done you could keep your veil so as to support the scythguard sweeping a flank objective and putting the chrono in position to get their protocols immediately and their 5++ and reroll charges next turn. There should be plenty enough terrain that it’s not a given that they will be shot off the board the turn they come on.
Your list doesn’t satisfy my desire to how to make melee crons work, you refuse to see the flexibility of my list. Fine, whatever. The question is, how to make a melee cron list that’s viable for taking on space marines and death guard with one list. Spamming heavy destroyers may be a good answer in a balanced list but it’s not an answer to the question that was asked. I have the crypto thralls to serve the purpose you wanted them for anyway.
You hate the nightscythe, fine. Move on. Your list is interesting but it’s nothing but speed bumps. Plays more like a silver tide list, getting on objectives and being hard to move off, I’m trying to find alternatives to that play style. Death guard will be able to out attrition you. What do you have that can handle deathshroud spam? Not enough shooting to punish them and not enough melee to stand up to them. I’m trying to actually take the fight to the enemy while still having staying power and some units for backfield objectives.
Willing to hear about other lists/strategy’s to make melee work, my list was just supposed to be a starting point for discussion, if you hate it that’s ok but your criticisms are not constructive. “Any good player” is a cop out. There is always counter play and counter play to the counter play.
Thank you for putting a list up but I’m trying to make an aggressive, threat overload, choppy melee list that can handle 2w marines that isn’t invalidated by -1d death guard. We seem to be in agreement on lychguard at least. I also believe in the power of scarabs but you took it to far, you can sit on objectives with the best of them but if they take you off then you don’t have anything Killy enough to retake with. Your list is passive, which is fine, just not what I’m trying to achieve.
Hey Guys,
wanted to tell you about the outcome against the Orcs. I won the Game 71:46 (We have both more unpainted then painted miniatures..... shame..)
We played the Mission Vital Intelligence.
I took Grind them Down (12points), Bring it Down (11points), and the one from the Mission (3points...) as Secondary‘s.
He started and it was devastating....
He just moved the Bikes and the Flyers. The bikes and the Dakkajet took 1 skorphek, the bomber took 7 warriors with his mortal wons... the flashgits took 13 warriors.... (my big troup was gone) and the lootas took 1 doomstalker to 2 wounds and another (shooting again for just 2 cp is just a joke! ) to 5 wounds. He rolled ridiculous good. He needed 6es to hit and yeah, hit like 16 times.... both of them...
Luckily that was all he got turn 1. (I thought after this start turn 2 would be the last turn....) He just stood on his home objective wich was nice.
Edit: Nice he just posted the start of my hole text..... I will right him again tomorrow....
I must confess to having made that post extra cheeky for my own amusement after you called my comments lazy and outdated
Seriously though, my main constructive criticism would be that Prismatic Dimensional Breaching Lychguard is probably not a reliable enough strategy to go the distance. Sad as that may be.
A further problem I see with your particular strategy is that 20 Warriors + Nightscythe + 10 Breaching Lychguard in reserve is 685pts and 3 CP that aren't contributing to the fight till turn 2 (turn 3 for the warriors). If you go second your opponent will have had 2 turns with a massive advantage before that stuff arrives. Too much in reserve can lose you a game no matter how fancy it is when it shows up.
I have tried to come up with lists that use the Nightscythe + Lychguard + PDB combo and it's a struggle. I feel like the Scythe(s) need to be empty or just have a cheap unit of 5 immortals in. A big unit of Warriors feels like it's justifying the 145pt cost of the NightScythe more, but is probably throwing good points after bad. Especially if the Scythe spends the 1st turn hiding in the backfield.
I do think Sword and Board Lychguard are very good, and well suited to fight Deathguard, although I don't think Deathguard are that common that you need to heavily plan for them.
Another spammy list based on lots of Lychguard:
Spoiler:
Patrol + Outrider Eternal Expansionists
Overlord, Reroll Charge trait, Veil Technomancer, Thrall of the King, Canopteck Control
A horrible amount of T5 4++ multi-wound models with ObSec and a pre-game move, plus a nice selection of little objective grabber/action performers. While We Stand, We Fight would be a great secondary pick.
Gesundheit wrote: Hey Guys,
wanted to tell you about the outcome against the Orcs. I won the Game 71:46 (We have both more unpainted then painted miniatures..... shame..)
We played the Mission Vital Intelligence.
I took Grind them Down (12points), Bring it Down (11points), and the one from the Mission (3points...) as Secondary‘s.
EYY! congrats dude! Nice big 45 on primary! Bit of a turn around from your other game for sure
I played a game against a goffs horde recently and lost 65 to 68 - he forced a 5 point primary from me on one turn which ended up being the swing.
Willing to hear about other lists/strategy’s to make melee work, my list was just supposed to be a starting point for discussion, if you hate it that’s ok but your criticisms are not constructive. “Any good player” is a cop out. There is always counter play and counter play to the counter play.
Thank you for putting a list up but I’m trying to make an aggressive, threat overload, choppy melee list that can handle 2w marines that isn’t invalidated by -1d death guard. We seem to be in agreement on lychguard at least. I also believe in the power of scarabs but you took it to far, you can sit on objectives with the best of them but if they take you off then you don’t have anything Killy enough to retake with. Your list is passive, which is fine, just not what I’m trying to achieve.
So I think to get melee crons to work consistently against both MEQ and DG you absolutely need the screening to make sure you engage enemy units on your terms. Fortunately, scarabs buffed by a 5++ are some of the best in the game IMO. Lets say the bones of our army is 2x8 scarabs 2x chronomancers 3x10 lychgurad which comes in at 1240 pts.
Personally I think we will see a rise in immortals stock, especially if people counter DG with speed, on top of that, being able to do keep DG themselves at range while doing chip damage is clearly a bonus. 30" gauss blasters basically covers the whole board these days after all. Reaper warriors needing to get close puts them at a disadvantage, especially against those deathshroud terminators. I dont think we'll see warriors go away by any stretch of the imagination but i can certainly see people putting 10-20 immortals in their lists on a more regular basis.
Lets say then we add 2x5 immortals squads for some backfield obsec. The army now fits into 2 patrols and you've got 590pts remaining.
The other thing I think will potentially raise in stock is flayed ones, especially run as novokh. Having built in DS and an 8" charge with fight twice is really gonna help deal with those poxwalker bricks just out of sheer volume of attacks. They also hit -2 AP on the charge as novokh which is a sweet spot for putting a lot of stuff into their invuns at the moment. Lets add 10 of those to bring us to 1540 pts total.
We've got a plethora of D1 attacks at this point which are pretty efficient against DG, so lets add some D2. I think a couple units of wraiths, or praetorians could be good here, praetorians being a little bit more reliable in their damage output but substantially less durable. For arguments sake lets say we put 2x3 wraiths in there as well as a CCB with voltaic staff to unlock protocols and some nice D2 shooting, which brings us to 1900pts on the nose.
So the list now has dedicated screening in scarabs, dedicated punch in the lychgaurd bricks, home deployment obsec and range in the immortals, enemy deployement harassment/free reserve tricks in the flayed ones on top of speedy harassment units with the wraiths. If you want the night scythe in their too then all you have to do is drop a couple of scarab bases and have the wraiths perform a similar screening role.
The tactic of pushing up into your opponents face with a bunch of 4++ and 5++ units is tried and tested at this point, especially when pared with obsec, or novokh for the added punch, so I think generally you want to maximise the tools you have in your tool kit to do this when playing melee crons. Control the board with speed and presence, harass and use your screens to fight on your terms.
Thats where I'd start at least. And as a discaimler, this certainly isn't gospel, just my opinion
Great minds think alike! (see my list above). Lychguard, Wraith and Scarabs, with Immortals to reduce the CP cost of detachments. I'm not sure if this sort of list is better than Novokh silver tide, but it seems strong to me.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: Great minds think alike! (see my list above). Lychguard, Wraith and Scarabs, with Immortals to reduce the CP cost of detachments. I'm not sure if this sort of list is better than Novokh silver tide, but it seems strong to me.
Weather the lists are stronger or not is probably dependant on what sort of play style you prefer to be honest. Silver tides are generally better at playing defensively turn one to not take damage, then pushing out turn two and sitting in/overloading the mid board.
On the other hand, melee crons often wanna push right from the get go - same sort of intended outcome just very different ways of going about achieving it.
If you're interested, this is my current list at 2k pts
Looks solid. Although, unless I'm missing something, doesn't it all fit into one Patrol detachment if you drop one immortal unit? 2 CP seems a lot to pay for 5 Immortals.
Edit: Actually, it fits in a battalion without changing anything (but I'd consider dropping some Immortals anyway).
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: Looks solid. Although, unless I'm missing something, doesn't it all fit into one Patrol detachment if you drop one immortal unit? 2 CP seems a lot to pay for 5 Immortals.
Edit: Actually, it fits in a battalion without changing anything (but I'd consider dropping some Immortals anyway).
You're right, the double patrol thing is a hang up from the old list i was running. Good catch
Veiling Novokh Lychguard with a reroll charge is another thing that will often work, but not reliably enough for a tournement list to build around. 20 Reaper Warriors with Chronometron support is the best thing crons can veil. You definitely get to stick 40 S5 AP-2 shots into your target, reliably. You then also have a chance of another 40 S5 AP-1 attacks if you make a charge.
We have a player who has mostly counted on ''VoD''ed Lychguard, 10 men with an Overlord.
This is a one-trick pony. It may or may not work.
For him, it has mostly not worked because the enemy has seen it coming and the Lychguard was usually dead and gone within two rounds.
I'd stay away from this kind of simple ''tactics''.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: Great minds think alike! (see my list above). Lychguard, Wraith and Scarabs, with Immortals to reduce the CP cost of detachments. I'm not sure if this sort of list is better than Novokh silver tide, but it seems strong to me.
Weather the lists are stronger or not is probably dependant on what sort of play style you prefer to be honest. Silver tides are generally better at playing defensively turn one to not take damage, then pushing out turn two and sitting in/overloading the mid board.
On the other hand, melee crons often wanna push right from the get go - same sort of intended outcome just very different ways of going about achieving it.
If you're interested, this is my current list at 2k pts
I still don't know if you can use command protocols with SK and different dynasties like novokh.
I know he has the dynastic agent keyword. But you can't ignore his szarekhan keyword either right?
I still don't know if you can use command protocols with SK and different dynasties like novokh.
I know he has the dynastic agent keyword. But you can't ignore his szarekhan keyword either right?
DYNASTIC AGENT units are excluded when it comes to check if every unit from your army has the same keyword. Is his SZAREKHAN keyword still present when the unit is excluded ?
I still don't know if you can use command protocols with SK and different dynasties like novokh.
I know he has the dynastic agent keyword. But you can't ignore his szarekhan keyword either right?
DYNASTIC AGENT units are excluded when it comes to check if every unit from your army has the same keyword. Is his SZAREKHAN keyword still present when the unit is excluded ?
Yeah, the Szarekhan keyword is still present because you'll have a Szarekhan supreme detachment in your army. The Szarekhan keyword on the Silent Kings profile is to do with unlocking the relevant stratagems.
Stratagems are unlocked via your choice of <dynasty> detachment. The keyword is there to stop you from putting the SK in a Novokh supreme command detachment just to unlock blood rites for example. He has to go in a Szarekhan supreme detachment as this is hard baked into his profile.
Because the SK is the only unit in the supreme command detachment, and is also a dynastic agent, he doesn't affect protocols for the rest of the army should I choose a different dynasty.
If I were to somehow put another Szarekhan unit in the supreme command detachment alongside the SK that wasnt a dynastic agent, for example a canoptek spyder, while the rest of my army was in Novokh detachments, then I wouldnt be able to unlock protocols as every unit is no longer counted as being from the same dynasty.
As long as the rest of the army is from the same dynasty the SK actually gives you more flexibility with how/when you use your protocols, rather than stopping you from using them
I still don't know if you can use command protocols with SK and different dynasties like novokh.
I know he has the dynastic agent keyword. But you can't ignore his szarekhan keyword either right?
DYNASTIC AGENT units are excluded when it comes to check if every unit from your army has the same keyword. Is his SZAREKHAN keyword still present when the unit is excluded ?
Yeah, the Szarekhan keyword is still present because you'll have a Szarekhan supreme detachment in your army. The Szarekhan keyword on the Silent Kings profile is to do with unlocking the relevant stratagems.
Stratagems are unlocked via your choice of <dynasty> detachment. The keyword is there to stop you from putting the SK in a Novokh supreme command detachment just to unlock blood rites for example. He has to go in a Szarekhan supreme detachment as this is hard baked into his profile.
Because the SK is the only unit in the supreme command detachment, and is also a dynastic agent, he doesn't affect protocols for the rest of the army should I choose a different dynasty.
If I were to somehow put another Szarekhan unit in the supreme command detachment alongside the SK that wasnt a dynastic agent, for example a canoptek spyder, while the rest of my army was in Novokh detachments, then I wouldnt be able to unlock protocols as every unit is no longer counted as being from the same dynasty.
As long as the rest of the army is from the same dynasty the SK actually gives you more flexibility with how/when you use your protocols, rather than stopping you from using them
Ok thanks for the explanation.
The way you explain it is very good and clear.
It isnt always that obvious if english isnt your native language!
Thanks for all the feedback guys. Dropping the nightscythe for a max unit of scarabs. A little too beefy to really be a screen but with a 5++ and great reanimate they can lead the charge.
I’m not sure but the wraiths feel useful just in speed and the invuln. A second unit of scarabs wouldn’t get the 5++ because the scythguard would need it more.
I’ve got spare points now which bothers me. I guess if I have two full units of scarabs I could drop a unit of cryptothralls and throw in a rando spider with gloom prism.
Edit: Don’t have the 5 points for the gloom prism, the scarabs are just going to run away from the spyder. Not very appetizing.
Since the codex dropped I couldn't take my eyes from the void Dragon. No point saying I started a necron force right?
Right now, I am looking into expanding my C'tan collection but both the nightbringer and the deceiver are incredible all models and don't fit current rules.
So 2 Q,
1) any good alternative models for these guys?
2) any experience with the tranacended? With a reasonable price (270) it is growing on me.
Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote: Since the codex dropped I couldn't take my eyes from the void Dragon. No point saying I started a necron force right?
Right now, I am looking into expanding my C'tan collection but both the nightbringer and the deceiver are incredible all models and don't fit current rules.
So 2 Q,
1) any good alternative models for this guys?
2) any experience with the tranacended? With a reasonable price (270) it is growing on me.
I made my own nightbringer using a spyder kit. So instead of connecting the front part of the body to the rear part, I put the front part on the top of the back, vertically, so he’s upright, with his gun in between (which shoots his mortal wounds output work with me). His legs become choppy looking, he’s pretty tall and definitely intimidating. He’s as tall as the nightbringer but overall bulkier so I’m 100% not modeling for advantage. It’s a gamesworkshop model so it’s allowed in store.
Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote: Since the codex dropped I couldn't take my eyes from the void Dragon. No point saying I started a necron force right?
Right now, I am looking into expanding my C'tan collection but both the nightbringer and the deceiver are incredible all models and don't fit current rules.
So 2 Q,
1) any good alternative models for this guys?
2) any experience with the tranacended? With a reasonable price (270) it is growing on me.
I made my own nightbringer using a spyder kit. So instead of connecting the front part of the body to the rear part, I put the front part on the top of the back, vertically, so he’s upright, with his gun in between (which shoots his mortal wounds output work with me). His legs become choppy looking, he’s pretty tall and definitely intimidating. He’s as tall as the nightbringer but overall bulkier so I’m 100% not modeling for advantage. It’s a gamesworkshop model so it’s allowed in store.
I'm curious how it looks.
Care to share a picture?
Ok thanks for the explanation.
The way you explain it is very good and clear.
It isnt always that obvious if english isnt your native language!
Dont mention it mate I had to re-read it a couple times just to make sure I had it right anyway. Sometimes I think GW tries to make things appear more complicated then they actually are just to seem clever lol
2) any experience with the tranacended? With a reasonable price (270) it is growing on me.
I was talking to someone the other day who saw a couple lists on tabletop simulator that went wide on the transcended c'tan and they actually put in a lot of work.
There was one list running 3 of them, and another list running 2. For 100pts less you're literally just as durable as the nightbringer, and with the amount of mortals you dish out at that point, you make up for the loss in killyness. A lot of armies just dont have the resources to consistently deal with 3 models that have a 4++ and can only take 3 wounds per phase either.
If memory serves, the list running 3 was a canoptek obsec list with 3x8 scarabs, 3x4 wraiths, 3x transcendent c'tan, 2x5 immortals (1 squad with tesla i think), 2 plasmancers and a chronomancer. I might have missed something out but you get the idea. Between the plasmancers, c'tan and scarabs/tesla strats this list actually deals a significant amount of mortals per turn
I can see running 1 c'tan at 1k points being very potent but at 2k IMO you'd probably need to go wide on them. That said, and i have mentioned this before, i reckon its easier to maximise the efficiency of the transcended c'tan, from a points perspective, than it is to maximise the efficiency for the named shards.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, the models of Nightbringer and Deceiver are not up to date (appearance and metal).
I'd take a Voidbringer as a proxy model for them.
I Wish they were metal, but no, you’re getting them Finecast. I’m planning to convert a C’Tan from that big Slaanesh dude with the demonette on his back.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, the models of Nightbringer and Deceiver are not up to date (appearance and metal).
I'd take a Voidbringer as a proxy model for them.
I Wish they were metal, but no, you’re getting them Finecast. I’m planning to convert a C’Tan from that big Slaanesh dude with the demonette on his back.
My Nightbringer and Deceiver are metal.
But I'd prefer plastic models.
Ok thanks for the explanation.
The way you explain it is very good and clear.
It isnt always that obvious if english isnt your native language!
Dont mention it mate I had to re-read it a couple times just to make sure I had it right anyway. Sometimes I think GW tries to make things appear more complicated then they actually are just to seem clever lol
2) any experience with the tranacended? With a reasonable price (270) it is growing on me.
I was talking to someone the other day who saw a couple lists on tabletop simulator that went wide on the transcended c'tan and they actually put in a lot of work.
There was one list running 3 of them, and another list running 2. For 100pts less you're literally just as durable as the nightbringer, and with the amount of mortals you dish out at that point, you make up for the loss in killyness. A lot of armies just dont have the resources to consistently deal with 3 models that have a 4++ and can only take 3 wounds per phase either.
If memory serves, the list running 3 was a canoptek obsec list with 3x8 scarabs, 3x4 wraiths, 3x transcendent c'tan, 2x5 immortals (1 squad with tesla i think), 2 plasmancers and a chronomancer. I might have missed something out but you get the idea. Between the plasmancers, c'tan and scarabs/tesla strats this list actually deals a significant amount of mortals per turn
I can see running 1 c'tan at 1k points being very potent but at 2k IMO you'd probably need to go wide on them. That said, and i have mentioned this before, i reckon its easier to maximise the efficiency of the transcended c'tan, from a points perspective, than it is to maximise the efficiency for the named shards.
Reasoning is sound. Going on doubles may be the sweet spot. Although that's a hefty part of the army.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So....which would the preferred transcended skill? Number 6 is very tempting, a -2 to being chargedcould.be the difference between killing it in one turn or not.
Also, transhuman could be decent as most weapons that can saturate already have a -1 and all AT will go also to the 4+
Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote: Since the codex dropped I couldn't take my eyes from the void Dragon. No point saying I started a necron force right?
Right now, I am looking into expanding my C'tan collection but both the nightbringer and the deceiver are incredible all models and don't fit current rules.
So 2 Q,
1) any good alternative models for this guys?
2) any experience with the tranacended? With a reasonable price (270) it is growing on me.
I made my own nightbringer using a spyder kit. So instead of connecting the front part of the body to the rear part, I put the front part on the top of the back, vertically, so he’s upright, with his gun in between (which shoots his mortal wounds output work with me). His legs become choppy looking, he’s pretty tall and definitely intimidating. He’s as tall as the nightbringer but overall bulkier so I’m 100% not modeling for advantage. It’s a gamesworkshop model so it’s allowed in store.
I'm curious how it looks.
Care to share a picture?
^That's a great conversion, definitely suitably creepy and intimidating!
On a somewhat related note, am I the only one who actually prefers the old GW Nightbringer and Deceiver models over the Void Dragon? Don't get me wrong, I think the Void Dragon is cool I'm just not into this trend of making huge models that dominate the table. To each their own but I feel like it throws off the scale of the game for me. I feel like a piece of the god of death doesn't have to be huge to represent how killy it is, its power doesn't come from brute strength or size. Not to rant or put down people who like it, I would still run the Void Dragon myself if the model weren't over $100, I just think it didn't have to be so massive.
GW has been enjoying a lot of success with all the large centerpiece models in AOS and have started running with it in 40k now too.
They like to charge extra for models “when you’re only going to be buying one“ so I’d be happy you’re at least getting a lot of model to go with the price tag.
They have been systematically getting rid of all the failcast and I was surprised the old c’tan made the new codex.
With the lumineth elves getting a random second wave and the sisters getting a random new model I would no longer be shocked if the c’tan get redone in the not super distant future. Unfortunately looks like there will be a necessary supplement to go along with them.
They probably don’t mind you getting a few paychecks in between 100$+ single model purchases.
TheArchmagos wrote: ^That's a great conversion, definitely suitably creepy and intimidating!
On a somewhat related note, am I the only one who actually prefers the old GW Nightbringer and Deceiver models over the Void Dragon? Don't get me wrong, I think the Void Dragon is cool I'm just not into this trend of making huge models that dominate the table. To each their own but I feel like it throws off the scale of the game for me. I feel like a piece of the god of death doesn't have to be huge to represent how killy it is, its power doesn't come from brute strength or size. Not to rant or put down people who like it, I would still run the Void Dragon myself if the model weren't over $100, I just think it didn't have to be so massive.
Sorry but you are insane. Nobody gets to say anything bad about Voidy. It isn't that big either - it just happens to be floating. Necrons did feel like they got too any centre piece units tbf.
Could anyone who has been keeping up with the new Death Guard Codex give me a few pointers on what I should be aiming for to bolster my Necron Legions against them?
Pahil wrote: Could anyone who has been keeping up with the new Death Guard Codex give me a few pointers on what I should be aiming for to bolster my Necron Legions against them?
Many Thanks.
Same thing for what you'll want against DA. Lots of D1 weapons and liberal use of autowounding with Gauss Reapers / Scarabs.
@Pahil, Volume of 1-damage, 1-ap shots will probably be the go-to way to deal with most competitive Death Guard. Dealing with Mortarion is a drastically different can of worms that most armies outside of Sororitas and maybe the new Dark Angels, will struggle to answer.
AduroT wrote: Pft. Eighteen Eradicators should take care of him just fine. ‘Course that doesn’t really help Necrons...
You mean Mortarion.
SM get more and more shiny toys other armies are jealous of.
I don't play SM anymore, simply because of this. Too boring to play and tin cans are too boring to paint.
E.g. Necrons are more challenging.
Faced off against morty this weekend with a 2 Monolith and SK list.
Rest of the army was 19 warriors
9 Lych
a techno
and a crono
2 heavy destroyers
Out of interest to see how he performs I opted no to shoot him turn 1 and instead killed a PBC and a bloat drone and like 7 possesed marines and 2 spawn.
Morty was able to make an 11 inch charge and kill a monolith essentially automatically. The next turn I was able to deal 10 wounds to him with essentially all the shooting in my army...charged with second monolith and got him to 4 wounds. You'd think hed be limping at this point but he doesn't degrade in any meaningful way. He still 1 shots monoliths even at his final tier...which is really just -2 attacks and -4 movement. Why he doesn't lose WS as he degrades is baffling.
Anyways I was able to pull off the win because SK dominated his side of the table and lych and warriors rolled like bosses on reanimations. So in a world where morty exists I'd probably run nothing but infantry. Remove all flat 2 damage from your army - if it doesn't do 1 or 3_+ damage it is useless.
Apart from morty the disgustingly resilient on everything is just plane too good vs flat 2 damage weapons...it is easy to avoid though which is dumb...an army that makes flat 2 damage useless just means no one will take them. SK does a lot of flat 2...He probably needs a point drop now - esp comparing how he degrades to campared to morty...
Xenomancers wrote: Faced off against morty this weekend with a 2 Monolith and SK list.
Rest of the army was 19 warriors
9 Lych
a techno
and a crono
2 heavy destroyers
Out of interest to see how he performs I opted no to shoot him turn 1 and instead killed a PBC and a bloat drone and like 7 possesed marines and 2 spawn.
Morty was able to make an 11 inch charge and kill a monolith essentially automatically. The next turn I was able to deal 10 wounds to him with essentially all the shooting in my army...charged with second monolith and got him to 4 wounds. You'd think hed be limping at this point but he doesn't degrade in any meaningful way. He still 1 shots monoliths even at his final tier...which is really just -2 attacks and -4 movement. Why he doesn't lose WS as he degrades is baffling.
Anyways I was able to pull off the win because SK dominated his side of the table and lych and warriors rolled like bosses on reanimations. So in a world where morty exists I'd probably run nothing but infantry. Remove all flat 2 damage from your army - if it doesn't do 1 or 3_+ damage it is useless.
Apart from morty the disgustingly resilient on everything is just plane too good vs flat 2 damage weapons...it is easy to avoid though which is dumb...an army that makes flat 2 damage useless just means no one will take them. SK does a lot of flat 2...He probably needs a point drop now - esp comparing how he degrades to campared to morty...
In this kind of world, its better to play on the objectives and leave everything else aside.
IMO the c'tan aren't that bad points wise. For the same price as Morty you can field the nightbringer and 32 wounds of scarabs. 41 wounds of anything for 490pts is decent.
I get where you're coming from though, the named c'tan shards are costed just high enough to make you really want to build around them, even though they dont give force multipliers/massive area debuffs in the same way morty does.
Where I would love to see a points drop is in immortals and destroyers right across the board. 19pts for Tesla is steep whichever way you look at it, and why would you pay 35pts for ophydians when skorphekhs cost the same lol? I know the roles are pretty different but still, durability is key in 9th and skorphekhs take the cake in that regard every time.
What are people's thoughts on the value of owning 60 Warriors?
We've got 40 w/Reapers, but since I wanted more Scarabs anyway and Indomitus Warrior sprues are soooo cheap, I am thinking of getting 20 more. This would also net us 6 more Scarabs, taking us to 18 total.
Will I ever use 60 Warriors in a single 2000pt list, or 18 Scarabs? If I do get 'em should I build them with the old Gauss just to future-proof our collection some?
We've got 40 w/Reapers, but since I wanted more Scarabs anyway and Indomitus Warrior sprues are soooo cheap, I am thinking of getting 20 more. This would also net us 6 more Scarabs, taking us to 18 total.
Will I ever use 60 Warriors in a single 2000pt list, or 18 Scarabs? If I do get 'em should I build them with the old Gauss just to future-proof our collection some?
Well, I think an army with 60 Warriors (3x20 Warriors w/ reapers in my book) form a decent core of a Necron army and will be hard to shift.
I plan to use a SK leading this kind of army but the model has not yet arrived due to Brexit.
While I already owned 48 warriors, I just started building them after the release of Indomitus. It certainly is now possible and viable to field 60 warriors in one army. Whether you are actually going to do it is up to you On the weapon loadouts: Very hard to say. I think it is smart to not put all your eggs in one basket and build the last 20 with flayers. I went about the same with my immortals last edition and am very happy about it now.... And while the reapers are probably the better gun at the moment, it is not like the flayers are unusable, especially if you already have 40 guys with reapers.
18 scarabs is two full units. I would argue it is about the most you would reasonably field, but still not excessive.
I also find myself debating whether it would be unreasonable to get more reanimators and destroyer.
We've got 40 w/Reapers, but since I wanted more Scarabs anyway and Indomitus Warrior sprues are soooo cheap, I am thinking of getting 20 more. This would also net us 6 more Scarabs, taking us to 18 total.
Will I ever use 60 Warriors in a single 2000pt list, or 18 Scarabs? If I do get 'em should I build them with the old Gauss just to future-proof our collection some?
In the recent Las Vagas Open there was a list that fielded 60 warriors plus the SK which took down a slaanesh demons list (currently considered to be a top tier competitive pick) so the build certainly has viability.
As far as scarabs go I think they're a genuine auto include, especially when paired with a chronomancer, but unless you're running them obsec, wouldn't recommend putting more than 8-15 bases in most lists. But rules change all the time dude, so just build what you like
We've got 40 w/Reapers, but since I wanted more Scarabs anyway and Indomitus Warrior sprues are soooo cheap, I am thinking of getting 20 more. This would also net us 6 more Scarabs, taking us to 18 total.
Will I ever use 60 Warriors in a single 2000pt list, or 18 Scarabs? If I do get 'em should I build them with the old Gauss just to future-proof our collection some?
In the recent Las Vagas Open there was a list that fielded 60 warriors plus the SK which took down a slaanesh demons list (currently considered to be a top tier competitive pick) so the build certainly has viability.
As far as scarabs go I think they're a genuine auto include, especially when paired with a chronomancer, but unless you're running them obsec, wouldn't recommend putting more than 8-15 bases in most lists. But rules change all the time dude, so just build what you like
I run two max squads right now, and I think that it's worth it. Even without the obsec, they preform so many vital things in the list. Screening, quick objective grabbers, deep strike denial, and they can be somewhat killy as well.
For a whopping $25... it was an easy decision. Thanks for the help guys. Something about 60 Warriors on the table just felt exciting to me, and I am glad to know the Scarabs will likely all get put to work too!
We've got 40 w/Reapers, but since I wanted more Scarabs anyway and Indomitus Warrior sprues are soooo cheap, I am thinking of getting 20 more. This would also net us 6 more Scarabs, taking us to 18 total.
Will I ever use 60 Warriors in a single 2000pt list, or 18 Scarabs? If I do get 'em should I build them with the old Gauss just to future-proof our collection some?
In the recent Las Vagas Open there was a list that fielded 60 warriors plus the SK which took down a slaanesh demons list (currently considered to be a top tier competitive pick) so the build certainly has viability.
As far as scarabs go I think they're a genuine auto include, especially when paired with a chronomancer, but unless you're running them obsec, wouldn't recommend putting more than 8-15 bases in most lists. But rules change all the time dude, so just build what you like
I run two max squads right now, and I think that it's worth it. Even without the obsec, they preform so many vital things in the list. Screening, quick objective grabbers, deep strike denial, and they can be somewhat killy as well.
Maybe you're right you know. I was thinking about this last night and my advice might be a little dated. With these hyper durable deathwing builds on the rise, stock in scarabs might have increased even further. If you can bog down their 10man bricks of termies with 5++ scarabs thats a very good exchange points wise for dealing with a significant portion of your opponents army.
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote: That's clearly a Novokh list yeah? Make all those warriors Reapers and that's actually pretty scary.
Yeah Novokh for sure. I'm not convinced Flayed One hordes are a good idea though. For an extra 20 pts Sword and Board Lychguard are probably a better pick. More Warriors might be better too. I haven't tested them much as I'm waiting for the new models, but the only way I can see them being good is as a cheap 5 man infantry unit with free deepstrike.
I'm completely new to Necrons and more or less 40k. I picked up Indomitus and I'd like to start a necron army. The problem is, I don't know which dynasty to go with. I sort of like Szarekhan because it's "new" and fits with the Indomitus lore. But, Sautekh seems neat because of the unique characters and, well, they look easier to paint.
Can someone give me some decent advice on which dynasty would be better to go with for an army with the Indomitus models? My other army is the Ultramarines and I'm looking for something a little different.
I'm completely new to Necrons and more or less 40k. I picked up Indomitus and I'd like to start a necron army. The problem is, I don't know which dynasty to go with. I sort of like Szarekhan because it's "new" and fits with the Indomitus lore. But, Sautekh seems neat because of the unique characters and, well, they look easier to paint.
Can someone give me some decent advice on which dynasty would be better to go with for an army with the Indomitus models? My other army is the Ultramarines and I'm looking for something a little different.
Honestly, I'd say paint your models however you like and decide on your dynasty later. I doubt the vast majority of 40k players could tell you what the Novokh colours are so you're as well not worrying too much about it. As a bonus, painting a colour scheme you like the look of is a great way to maintain your enthusiasm for painting.
In terms of power on the tabletop, Novokh and custom dynasties are probably the best right now but I'd say experiment to see what works for you.
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer [19 PL, 370pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor
Triarch Stalker [7 PL, 150pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon
+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 190pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 190pts]
++ Total: [103 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++
The idea of this list is to move up aggressively with the wraiths and the scarabs to keep my opponent occupied and push them off objectives while the nightbringer, praetorians, and CCB follow up to do damage, with supporting fire from the vehicles. Also with the warriors the idea is to either use them as a fire and forget roadblock with veil or to wait and reposition later in the game depending on my opponent's list.
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer [19 PL, 370pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor
Triarch Stalker [7 PL, 150pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon
+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 190pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 190pts]
++ Total: [103 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++
The idea of this list is to move up aggressively with the wraiths and the scarabs to keep my opponent occupied and push them off objectives while the nightbringer, praetorians, and CCB follow up to do damage, with supporting fire from the vehicles. Also with the warriors the idea is to either use them as a fire and forget roadblock with veil or to wait and reposition later in the game depending on my opponent's list.
In terms of competitive play, the D6 shots/D6 damage from the DDAs is just way too unreliable. Yeah it feels good when you spike but if you absolutely need something removed from an objective, an important part of that is knowing how much damage you're gonna be able to put into that unit on average. The nature of the DDAs makes them highly unpredictable and, therefore, pretty difficult to plan around. If you want something to sit in your backfield, a cheap unit of immortals can preform the role nicely.
If you're main plan is to push up with wraiths and scarabs, then I'd drop the DDAs for more wraiths and scarabs! Really gum up those objectives! I really cant stress enough how good obsec scarabs are, especially with a 5++ from the chronomancer. If you're running the Nighbringer, a little squad of scarabs to babysit him isnt a bad idea either, as it helps to eat up mortals wounds which otherwise hes quite weak against.
The other thing I'd consider dropping is the praetorians. Because they're dynastic agents they feel a little out of place. On top of that, flat D2 weapons are in a rougher spot now than they were a month ago thanks to the rise of Death Guard and Dark Angles.
Finally, I think some flayed ones/cryptothralls have great utility in these sort of lists as they can really help when you want to take scramblers. These sort of things put in reserves helps to force your opponent to screen out their backfield a little more which in turn plays into the plan of pinning them back with your other faster threats.
In terms of competitive play, the D6 shots/D6 damage from the DDAs is just way too unreliable. Yeah it feels good when you spike but if you absolutely need something removed from an objective, an important part of that is knowing how much damage you're gonna be able to put into that unit on average. The nature of the DDAs makes them highly unpredictable and, therefore, pretty difficult to plan around. If you want something to sit in your backfield, a cheap unit of immortals can preform the role nicely.
If you're main plan is to push up with wraiths and scarabs, then I'd drop the DDAs for more wraiths and scarabs! Really gum up those objectives! I really cant stress enough how good obsec scarabs are, especially with a 5++ from the chronomancer. If you're running the Nighbringer, a little squad of scarabs to babysit him isnt a bad idea either, as it helps to eat up mortals wounds which otherwise hes quite weak against.
The other thing I'd consider dropping is the praetorians. Because they're dynastic agents they feel a little out of place. On top of that, flat D2 weapons are in a rougher spot now than they were a month ago thanks to the rise of Death Guard and Dark Angles.
Thanks for the advice! I think there's a part of me that had stubbornly been holding on to the idea of running tanks like the DDAs because of my memories of playing guard in 8th edition and finding it impossible to remove their vehicles but in 9th it sounds like we can tie them up really easily and even kill them without anti-tank so I realize I should be playing to Necrons' strength of winning the objective game not just killing stuff.
In light of that, I was thinking about the below list to emphasize the aggressive object based nature of the list:
Spoiler:
Outrider Detachment
HQ -CCB (the usual warlord)
Elites
-Nightbringer
-Triarch Stalker with Gauss
Troops
-10x Reaper Warriors
-10x Reaper Warriors
Dedicated Transport
-Ghost Ark
-Ghost Ark
Fast Attack
-9x Scarabs
-4x Scarabs (to babysit nightbringer or camp objectives)
-4x wraiths
-4x Wraiths
-4x Wraiths
Patrol Detachment
HQ -Chronomancer (veil because why not)
Troops
-5x Gauss Immortals
The list still comes to exactly 2000pts and I think it does what its trying to do better. The plan is to just push up using the 6inch move plus obsec dynasty and all my fast units and to just gum up the objectives. The wraiths and scarabs can tie up what I can't kill and between the arks and the warriors I should be able to shoot most basic infantry off the objectives. Nightbringer should also have some breathing room to kill high priority targets.
What do people think? I'm not looking to win tournaments with this, but is it viable?
In terms of competitive play, the D6 shots/D6 damage from the DDAs is just way too unreliable. Yeah it feels good when you spike but if you absolutely need something removed from an objective, an important part of that is knowing how much damage you're gonna be able to put into that unit on average. The nature of the DDAs makes them highly unpredictable and, therefore, pretty difficult to plan around. If you want something to sit in your backfield, a cheap unit of immortals can preform the role nicely.
If you're main plan is to push up with wraiths and scarabs, then I'd drop the DDAs for more wraiths and scarabs! Really gum up those objectives! I really cant stress enough how good obsec scarabs are, especially with a 5++ from the chronomancer. If you're running the Nighbringer, a little squad of scarabs to babysit him isnt a bad idea either, as it helps to eat up mortals wounds which otherwise hes quite weak against.
The other thing I'd consider dropping is the praetorians. Because they're dynastic agents they feel a little out of place. On top of that, flat D2 weapons are in a rougher spot now than they were a month ago thanks to the rise of Death Guard and Dark Angles.
Thanks for the advice! I think there's a part of me that had stubbornly been holding on to the idea of running tanks like the DDAs because of my memories of playing guard in 8th edition and finding it impossible to remove their vehicles but in 9th it sounds like we can tie them up really easily and even kill them without anti-tank so I realize I should be playing to Necrons' strength of winning the objective game not just killing stuff.
In light of that, I was thinking about the below list to emphasize the aggressive object based nature of the list:
Spoiler:
Outrider Detachment
HQ -CCB (the usual warlord)
Elites
-Nightbringer
-Triarch Stalker with Gauss
Troops
-10x Reaper Warriors
-10x Reaper Warriors
Dedicated Transport
-Ghost Ark
-Ghost Ark
Fast Attack
-9x Scarabs
-4x Scarabs (to babysit nightbringer or camp objectives)
-4x wraiths
-4x Wraiths
-4x Wraiths
Patrol Detachment
HQ -Chronomancer (veil because why not)
Troops
-5x Gauss Immortals
The list still comes to exactly 2000pts and I think it does what its trying to do better. The plan is to just push up using the 6inch move plus obsec dynasty and all my fast units and to just gum up the objectives. The wraiths and scarabs can tie up what I can't kill and between the arks and the warriors I should be able to shoot most basic infantry off the objectives. Nightbringer should also have some breathing room to kill high priority targets.
What do people think? I'm not looking to win tournaments with this, but is it viable?
Why are you bringing the Patrol? If you are bringing the Obsec Dynasty, just run an Outrider + Vanguard or something like that. There is no reason to bring any of our troops, as you are better off just pumping those points into Skorpekhs, Wraiths and Scarabs.
Simply because of the limitations of my collection unfortunately . I agree that those would be better options but I don't have the spare cash to get them yet and I want to try using the models I have. My only other options are 6x tomblades, 5x flayed ones, 5x lychguard, 10x deathmarks, 5x praetoriansdeceiver, or most of the HQ optons. I totally agree that more scarabs and wraiths would be great but surely in 9th edition warriors in ghost arks are still a good option?
But you are allowed 2 HQ and 3 Troop slots in an outrider detachment. So there is no use for an additional patrol, unless you want them to be a different dynasty.
In terms of competitive play, the D6 shots/D6 damage from the DDAs is just way too unreliable. Yeah it feels good when you spike but if you absolutely need something removed from an objective, an important part of that is knowing how much damage you're gonna be able to put into that unit on average. The nature of the DDAs makes them highly unpredictable and, therefore, pretty difficult to plan around. If you want something to sit in your backfield, a cheap unit of immortals can preform the role nicely.
If you're main plan is to push up with wraiths and scarabs, then I'd drop the DDAs for more wraiths and scarabs! Really gum up those objectives! I really cant stress enough how good obsec scarabs are, especially with a 5++ from the chronomancer. If you're running the Nighbringer, a little squad of scarabs to babysit him isnt a bad idea either, as it helps to eat up mortals wounds which otherwise hes quite weak against.
The other thing I'd consider dropping is the praetorians. Because they're dynastic agents they feel a little out of place. On top of that, flat D2 weapons are in a rougher spot now than they were a month ago thanks to the rise of Death Guard and Dark Angles.
Thanks for the advice! I think there's a part of me that had stubbornly been holding on to the idea of running tanks like the DDAs because of my memories of playing guard in 8th edition and finding it impossible to remove their vehicles but in 9th it sounds like we can tie them up really easily and even kill them without anti-tank so I realize I should be playing to Necrons' strength of winning the objective game not just killing stuff.
In light of that, I was thinking about the below list to emphasize the aggressive object based nature of the list:
Spoiler:
Outrider Detachment
HQ -CCB (the usual warlord)
Elites
-Nightbringer
-Triarch Stalker with Gauss
Troops
-10x Reaper Warriors
-10x Reaper Warriors
Dedicated Transport
-Ghost Ark
-Ghost Ark
Fast Attack
-9x Scarabs
-4x Scarabs (to babysit nightbringer or camp objectives)
-4x wraiths
-4x Wraiths
-4x Wraiths
Patrol Detachment
HQ -Chronomancer (veil because why not)
Troops
-5x Gauss Immortals
The list still comes to exactly 2000pts and I think it does what its trying to do better. The plan is to just push up using the 6inch move plus obsec dynasty and all my fast units and to just gum up the objectives. The wraiths and scarabs can tie up what I can't kill and between the arks and the warriors I should be able to shoot most basic infantry off the objectives. Nightbringer should also have some breathing room to kill high priority targets.
What do people think? I'm not looking to win tournaments with this, but is it viable?
Always happy to help bro.
In it's current state I reckon its viable, especially seeing as you're limited by your collection. Having said that, if you wanted to save on CP and get rid of the patrol you could merge the warriors back into a 20 man unit, drop a ghost ark, and pop in the lychguard instead, especially if you have them kitted out with swords and shields. They'd make a good back up unit to hold/clear objectives if the wraiths are all tied up thanks to their 4++ and high AP
On a different note, some armies literally dont have the resources to deal with a 5++ brick of 20 warriors in a single turn, especially if you keep a ghost ark in the list to potentially res D6. They also make a better target for the viel if you run them in a big blob and a natural target for the chronomancers buff; sometimes you might find that the scarabs out pace the chronomancer, so its good to have multiple targets for him.
All of that said, the best way to find out what's good in the army and what's not is to test it out though man. Some things that work well for other armies aren't gonna work well for you, so try and get some games in and see what you like. I'm sure you'll quickly find ways to optimise your list!
savemelmac wrote:But you are allowed 2 HQ and 3 Troop slots in an outrider detachment. So there is no use for an additional patrol, unless you want them to be a different dynasty.
Good point! When I was writing down the list I for some reason assumed Outriders could have 3-6 Fast Attack and 2 of everything else but that helps with the CP I will surely be using to spam an extra C'tan power every turn!
TheNEWnew wrote:
Always happy to help bro.
In it's current state I reckon its viable, especially seeing as you're limited by your collection. Having said that, if you wanted to save on CP and get rid of the patrol you could merge the warriors back into a 20 man unit, drop a ghost ark, and pop in the lychguard instead, especially if you have them kitted out with swords and shields. They'd make a good back up unit to hold/clear objectives if the wraiths are all tied up thanks to their 4++ and high AP
On a different note, some armies literally dont have the resources to deal with a 5++ brick of 20 warriors in a single turn, especially if you keep a ghost ark in the list to potentially res D6. They also make a better target for the viel if you run them in a big blob and a natural target for the chronomancers buff; sometimes you might find that the scarabs out pace the chronomancer, so its good to have multiple targets for him.
All of that said, the best way to find out what's good in the army and what's not is to test it out though man. Some things that work well for other armies aren't gonna work well for you, so try and get some games in and see what you like. I'm sure you'll quickly find ways to optimise your list!
Thank you for the detailed input! It's good to know I have options to experiment with. Definitely true that the best way to get a feel for it is in practice, but unfortunately I won't be able to get any games in person for a while but this gives me a good list to plan for so I'm fully painted when things get less grimdark out there. Although in the meantime I suppose there is tabletop simulator. Not the same but practice is practice!
Hey guys, I make series content for different armies that takes people from first purchase to their first 2,000 point army list and recently I've started a Necron series which is a lot of fun to work on. The latest video started looking into the different unit types and I figured I'd post it here to get some feed back. Let me know what you think and where I could improve.
3x20 Warriors is probably sufficient for your purposes, I would swap out the fourth max unit of warriors for Scarabs or Wraiths, or for min-Immortals or min-Flayed Ones for objectives, Actions, and shenanigans.
I suggest dropping at least one of those 20-man warrior units for more variation. Flayed ones, more scarabs, etc. to score secondaries would help. 80 warrior will get in the way of each other, crown the board with too many short-range guns creating detrimental redundancies.
I second what the others have been saying, 60 warriors should be plenty. Bare in mind as well, that you have to keep your units within 6" of a character if you do want access to protocols, so another HQ choice certainly wouldn't go amiss if you do drop a warriors squad.
The Silent King is always a good shout for warrior lists, he synergises so well with them. That said, he certainly isn't an auto take, and you'd have to cut a lot to fit him into your list but hes always worth a look in.
Also, I've mentioned this before, but guns with D6 shots and D6 damage really aren't the best for competitive play - their damage output is very unreliable literally due to the nature of their data sheet. If you're not that worried about it though then keep the Doomstalkers in because they're awesome models
I think min sized units of 1 LHD are one of the better heavy support choices and hovering on the cusp of being competitive. There fat 3D3 damage guns make a mockery of -1 damage effects. There a little too many points/too fragile to sit comfortably at 70pts but they do hit hard which is an increasing requirement at the moment.
I think there is a viable list built around a core of Szarekahn or the Superior Artisans dynasty and abusing the gak out of re-roll to wounds on massive high damage attacks.
Asymmetric wrote: I think min sized units of 1 LHD are one of the better heavy support choices and hovering on the cusp of being competitive. There fat 3D3 damage guns make a mockery of -1 damage effects. There a little too many points/too fragile to sit comfortably at 70pts but they do hit hard which is an increasing requirement at the moment.
I think there is a viable list built around a core of Szarekahn or the Superior Artisans dynasty and abusing the gak out of re-roll to wounds on massive high damage attacks.
Fill the rest out with objective secured warriors/immortals & melee threats.
Yeah for sure - the chronos gun is great for it as well. Though I'd never take that many, 1-2 chrono and you good. Exchance for a technomancer to bring back d3 warriors and heal the SK + carry the voltaic staff and don't bother with a 3rd HQ.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: How are people helping to protect their Silent King from long-ranged anti-tank like Retributors? Terrain can only do so much for such a tall model.
Its difficult for sure, multi-meltas hitting 36" thanks to the retribution strat is real brutal on the smaller boards
Getting your deployment right against them is gonna be key, I'd definitely try place the SK last in that regard. You're gonna have to be real cagey with him in terms of movement too - I'd try to preserve him for the late game, where he can be very potent against weakened sisters MSU, rather than using him in the more standard force multiplier role.
That said, you cant hang back with the rest of your army, you gotta engage their threats, specifically the retributors in this example. Veiling some warriors early might be a good idea if it means you can get the jump on them.
Then again, I got trashed by sisters recently myself so maybe dont listen to me lol
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: How are people helping to protect their Silent King from long-ranged anti-tank like Retributors? Terrain can only do so much for such a tall model.
My experience is people wont go for the SK. Typically they are going to shoot easier to remove things without 4++. ESP if you activate protocol of the undying legions first (heal 2 automatic from living metal and bring a technomancers for d3 repair). 28 wounds is a lot to 1 shot with a 4++.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: How are people helping to protect their Silent King from long-ranged anti-tank like Retributors? Terrain can only do so much for such a tall model.
Most tables you play on in this edition should have a place to hide him behind obscuring terrain in or near your deployment zone; height doesn't matter as long as they are the requisite 5 inches tall. Use that piece of terrain for a couple turns until you can get some scarabs, wraiths, or deep strikers to the retributors and/or shoot them off the board. You can use Conquering Tyrant Protocol to extend the range of your auras for turns 2 and 3 so you don't have to string your models back as far to get the SK benefits while you're hiding out. Spammed anti-tank is a bad matchup for you, but it's winnable with some cagey play around terrain.
If you regularly find yourself on tables without enough terrain to do this and you have some ranged AT spam armies in your meta, I'd think about playing a different build than the Silent King build. In such a meta, I would play the anti-gunline build of 6 inch pregame advance/obsec chronomancer-buffed scarabs and wraith heavy. Just tie up all of their guns on turn 1-2 and pin them in their deployment zone. One of the advantages of the Necron codex is that it has a decent number of viable builds, which should help with different and changing metas.
Nothing yet, but I hope soon. I also hope that, as its clearly plastic moulds, that they might be something they can mass produce and thus ship out to retailers not just direct from them.
I do have a set of resin ones from Tabletop Combat a which are great, these ones though look like the extra mile with the customising options and if they are indeed in plastic it makes using them all the easier than using resin (and having to fiddle with rods into models ot fit them all)
Yo how do you guys feel about mix and matching dynasties? Obviously you lose access to protocols but really how integral are they to most builds?
Two of the premier builds are generally both mono dynasty - Novokh warriors and canoptek obsec, and even then, the Novokh build is really the only one out of the two that utilises protocols regularly.
What are peoples thoughts on combining the two? I was thinking you could run a obsec outrider and still have all of the best bits from the silver tide style
Something like this?
Spoiler:
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Necrons) [960pts] ++
Dynasty Choice: Novokh
+ HQ +
Chronomancer [80pts]: Entropic Lance, Relic: Veil of Darkness
I was just gifted two boxes of unbuilt Immortals/Deathmarks. We already own 20x Immortals, but have no Deathmarks. Is there any reason to build them as additional Immortals, or should I just go Deathmarks even though they seem mediocre?
i believe its a bit of a debate which is better but i prefer sword n board.
They dont hit as hard but still hit hard enough to leave a dent and are super irritating to get off of an objective.
Nate668 wrote: Thinking about picking up some lychguard as a hobby project for the weekend. What’s the recommended loadout these days, shield or warscythe?
Sword & Board, easy choice. So much of the game is about Durability, and having a 2+/4++ makes a huge difference. They can also still hit really hard. Warscythe lychguard just go down way to easy.
My plans are walking a unit of Shields across the table, while a unit of Scythes drops in via Monolith to avoid getting shot on the way. Ideally hammer and anvil style.
AduroT wrote: My plans are walking a unit of Shields across the table, while a unit of Scythes drops in via Monolith to avoid getting shot on the way. Ideally hammer and anvil style.
Foot slogging is a slow way to die.
I'd replace this unit by Wraiths or Praetorians.
Lychguard with scythes are reliant on deployment and movement shenanigans to rip one (1) really tough target to shreds, and then die like chumps to the counterattack.
If you can't charge them the turn they arrive on the table, they won't do what you want them to imho.
I never was a huge fan of Praetorians model-wise, but rules-wise right now they're pretty great. They're fast, which means you can control who can hit them, as well as deadly (though Plague Marines and -1D on 2W models makes them cry).
Yeah praetorians next to the silent king for re-rolls plus access to MWBD are a genuine threat.
If you're only considering a single unit of lychguard then sword and board are for sure the way to go . A unit of 10 has the potential to dish out 50 attacks at -4AP on the charge as novokh on top of a 4++
Most of the targets you put them into are still getting wounded on 3s and 2s even with the sword anyway, so for a substantial durability increase for no extra cost, I'd say the sword and shield combo takes the cake 80% of the time
AduroT wrote: My plans are walking a unit of Shields across the table, while a unit of Scythes drops in via Monolith to avoid getting shot on the way. Ideally hammer and anvil style.
Foot slogging is a slow way to die.
I'd replace this unit by Wraiths or Praetorians.
There are better ways to transport lychguard. Put them in strategic reserves, fly your night scythe up the board, and use prismatic dimensional breach to disembark them on T2. You can also put your night scythe in strategic reserves, deepstrike it T2, and use prismatic dimensional breach afterwards.
Even just putting scythguard in strategic reserves to walk on could be very effective, especially as novokh. They have a huge threat range that takes up quite a bit of both sides of the table. Your opponent needing to avoid 14” (+1 to charge and command reroll) off both sides or something is getting one shot is a massive head game. Many missions have objectives within that range.
Extra tasty with the deceiver to redeploy into reserves to save the command points. Now that you have zero choice on first turn meaning you have to deploy to do either/or I think the deceiver has a lot more play.
Also keep in mind you can be hiding an inch behind terrain to not be in los of getting shot then walk through and then charge onto an objective. They are our biggest hammer and can trade very well with large terminator units taking just about anything in the game to their invuln. The d2 isn’t ideal going into death guard but they can get it done with just weight of attacks going straight through. Especially with +1 attack strat. Beefy dreads just cry, even at -1 damage they cut right through. They don’t rely on rerolls or auras which is nice.
They are the ideal buff target of chronomancers. Even if they do get shot 20 wounds at t5 3+ 5++ plus maybe in cover is pretty defensible and they regenerate pretty dang well. I don’t think you’d want more than one unit so the chronomancer should be a given. Even if they walk on a chrono should be veiling nearby bringing another unit to support giving your opponent a tough choice to make to handle your aggression. All of this can be happening on an objective.
I still really like the strat to quick deploy out of the night scythe the only turn off is the command point cost to get into reserves. Again, deceiver is golden for this.
Our army has a survivability in spades, sometimes you just need a bigger hammer. Whole armies have to avoid getting shot or they melt. We can manage having one single unit with some finesse required.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you arnt novokh and don’t want to reserve them then the pregarm move should be able to get them to safety hopefully up board waiting for a juicy trade target to get onto what ever objective they are bird-dogging. Even if you’re going second.
Validity of a Chronomancer "just" taking the cryptek arcana to Deep Strike himself in rather than waste your veil on getting him into position to help?
That way you could teleport a royal warden and a squad of guass immortals up the board as well to support the endeavour?
Yeah that sounds good. I wouldn’t pick the immortals though. They’re long range on their own, a second melee unit or reaper warriors would be a better pick.
The only problem is the chrono would be to late to use his buff the turn he comes in. If he is a veil caddy then he can buff a unit before the redeploy.
Cauthon wrote: Yeah that sounds good. I wouldn’t pick the immortals though. They’re long range on their own, a second melee unit or reaper warriors would be a better pick.
The only problem is the chrono would be to late to use his buff the turn he comes in. If he is a veil caddy then he can buff a unit before the redeploy.
I rate immortals way more than reaper warriors for shoving in your opponant's face. T5 3+ makes all the difference, in my opinion. I'd rather my reapers sat in the middle of the board just daring anything to come within 18" of where they sit.
And, uinless I'm wrong, the Chrono couldnt buff anyone coming in from Prismatic Breach anyway? So you'd be talking about doing away with the scythe entirely.
Absolutely I would take 10 Scytheguard + Veil Chrono if I wasn't trying to get a kind of "shunt" approach with more than one unit involved. I havent yet theorised a list using 10 Scythes & 10 Shields, but it is something I do want to try eventually.
I can definitely see a list running twenty lychguard being good, although I'm not convinced it's worth running scythes over shields, the survivability just seems so good and against a lot of targets they aren't even that much more killy. Twenty shieldguard would be super tough to grind through though, especially if they're obsec and stealing the objectives the whole time. I really wish that GW had written it so you could mix and match the loadouts in the squad. It would be a simple change but maybe then lychguard would be too good? 6 shields and 4 scythes so you can have offence and defence would be amazing.
so i ran Mephrit and holy crap the amount of times that +3" on my guns came into practice was ridiculous. Almost every turn bout 5-8 reapers minimum would not have had a shot w/o that increase lol.
Normally i play Novokh, but i wasnted to use the Silent King and running both him and Anrakyr sounds like a bad idea. Didnt expect Mephrit to be that noticable.
Cauthon wrote: Yeah that sounds good. I wouldn’t pick the immortals though. They’re long range on their own, a second melee unit or reaper warriors would be a better pick.
The only problem is the chrono would be to late to use his buff the turn he comes in. If he is a veil caddy then he can buff a unit before the redeploy.
I rate immortals way more than reaper warriors for shoving in your opponant's face. T5 3+ makes all the difference, in my opinion. I'd rather my reapers sat in the middle of the board just daring anything to come within 18" of where they sit.
And, uinless I'm wrong, the Chrono couldnt buff anyone coming in from Prismatic Breach anyway? So you'd be talking about doing away with the scythe entirely.
Absolutely I would take 10 Scytheguard + Veil Chrono if I wasn't trying to get a kind of "shunt" approach with more than one unit involved. I havent yet theorised a list using 10 Scythes & 10 Shields, but it is something I do want to try eventually.
Couldn’t be buffing the unit coming in from prismatic breach but will at least be on the table to buff SOMETHING before veil happens.
To do what you’re saying I would either A- put scythguard INSIDE a night scythe and prismatic breach 10 shieldguard or B put scytheguard into reserve to walk on with 10 shield guard veiling in to support. The chrono would buff a separate unit before the veil for the 5++ or said shieldguard for the reroll charges.
Vineheart01 wrote: so i ran Mephrit and holy crap the amount of times that +3" on my guns came into practice was ridiculous. Almost every turn bout 5-8 reapers minimum would not have had a shot w/o that increase lol.
Normally i play Novokh, but i wasnted to use the Silent King and running both him and Anrakyr sounds like a bad idea. Didnt expect Mephrit to be that noticable.
Mephrit Gauss Immortals are the truth versus all the 2+ and 3+ saves. AP 3 firing from 16.5 inches out is highly relevant.
That's actually the direction I would go with a soup build with a Mephrit fire base and an Eternal Expansionist Canoptek screen.
Cauthon wrote: If you like that then what about gauss bikes? Have their own in built delivery and can be ignoring cover.
A big squad of 9 Gauss tomb blades in Mephrit does sound like a good buy if you want to throw in a buff package for them, you have a different source of obsec, and you don't need the battalion for CP purposes.
Cauthon wrote: If you like that then what about gauss bikes? Have their own in built delivery and can be ignoring cover.
A big squad of 9 Gauss tomb blades in Mephrit does sound like a good buy if you want to throw in a buff package for them, you have a different source of obsec, and you don't need the battalion for CP purposes.
I’ve been enjoying non battalion lists. Allows for a lot more creativity/ pushing a theme. Two squads of reaper warriors in ghost arcs, two max gauss bike squads, two full scarab squads, one unit of skorpekh, a ccb and a gauss stalker sounds pretty deadly and can still play (some of) the missions. Gauss stalker makes your bikes hit on twos rerolling ones, that will melt some blight lords. I’d think you’d need the skorpek to have at least one hammer but that could be two units of min wraiths depending on how you want to play objectives.. sounds fun?
My will be done is all the buffing the bikes need besides being meph and the ccb is an auto take anyway. If you want more than that they pair very well with the silent king, other than being mutually expensive. I could see the silent king with two big squads of gauss bikes but you’re definitely building around that.
Cauthon wrote: I've been enjoying non battalion lists. Allows for a lot more creativity/ pushing a theme. Two squads of reaper warriors in ghost arcs, two max gauss bike squads, two full scarab squads, one unit of skorpekh, a ccb and a gauss stalker sounds pretty deadly and can still play (some of) the missions. Gauss stalker makes your bikes hit on twos rerolling ones, that will melt some blight lords. I’d think you’d need the skorpek to have at least one hammer but that could be two units of min wraiths depending on how you want to play objectives.. sounds fun?
My will be done is all the buffing the bikes need besides being meph and the ccb is an auto take anyway. If you want more than that they pair very well with the silent king, other than being mutually expensive. I could see the silent king with two big squads of gauss bikes but you’re definitely building around that.
I haven't had any luck with warriors in Ghost Arcs, mostly due to the 10 man size. RP being denied with a full kill is just so bad for them.
I'd also like to see a 300 point unit like the bikes get a bit more support. I'd think a Veil caddy of some sort would be good to get them out of being tagged in combat. A res orb on the CCB would do quite well on this unit as well.
The ghost arcs were for vehicle/ quantum shielding saturation and to protect the warriors till midgame. Was just a sample list though, if it doesn’t suit your fancy then forget about it. I was just putting as much heat into a meph list that could still play missions.
Veil on bikes is a total waste, they have plenty fast enough movement to get where they want to be. There’s even the strat to allow them to advance and shoot. The veil would be better used to support your bikes not moving them into position.
The bikes speed is one of their biggest advantages, getting to just within rapid fire range of whatever you need to be. If you’re just going to treat them like immortals then it may not be the unit for you.
Cauthon wrote: The ghost arcs were for vehicle/ quantum shielding saturation and to protect the warriors till midgame. Was just a sample list though, if it doesn’t suit your fancy then forget about it. I was just putting as much heat into a meph list that could still play missions.
Veil on bikes is a total waste, they have plenty fast enough movement to get where they want to be. There’s even the strat to allow them to advance and shoot. The veil would be better used to support your bikes not moving them into position.
The bikes speed is one of their biggest advantages, getting to just within rapid fire range of whatever you need to be. If you’re just going to treat them like immortals then it may not be the unit for you.
The veil would be to have them essentially fall back and shoot. I actually really like the Royal Warden as an alternative here with the Conduit of Stars. I just suggested the Veil because you could take it on any supplemental character.
I do like the unit. I'd use it if I owned 9 of them.
Vineheart01 wrote: so i ran Mephrit and holy crap the amount of times that +3" on my guns came into practice was ridiculous. Almost every turn bout 5-8 reapers minimum would not have had a shot w/o that increase lol.
Normally i play Novokh, but i wasnted to use the Silent King and running both him and Anrakyr sounds like a bad idea. Didnt expect Mephrit to be that noticable.
Mephrit Gauss Immortals are the truth versus all the 2+ and 3+ saves. AP 3 firing from 16.5 inches out is highly relevant.
That's actually the direction I would go with a soup build with a Mephrit fire base and an Eternal Expansionist Canoptek screen.
Was thinking you could potentially run the immortals in a custom dynasty with Pitiless Hunters and Healthy Paranoia too, so you'd get the extra 3" range plus the ability to rapid fire if you remained stationary.
A patrol with 30 immortals dishing out 60 shots a turn from the back, alongside a obsec outrider with a bunch of wraiths and scarabs could be real mean
TheArchmagos wrote: I can definitely see a list running twenty lychguard being good, although I'm not convinced it's worth running scythes over shields, the survivability just seems so good and against a lot of targets they aren't even that much more killy. Twenty shieldguard would be super tough to grind through though, especially if they're obsec and stealing the objectives the whole time. I really wish that GW had written it so you could mix and match the loadouts in the squad. It would be a simple change but maybe then lychguard would be too good? 6 shields and 4 scythes so you can have offence and defence would be amazing.
The fact we can't mix Lychguard squads REALLY cheeses me off. Almost every other faction with heavy infantry can do that and it even shows mixed squads in Necron artwork
I'd love to have 6 scytheguard with 4 shieldeguard
Maybe we need to petition GW to change it so you can it really is arbitrary that we can't seeing as most factions can do that (especially all marines with their thunderhammer stormshield squads), it's not even based on what comes in the kit so I really don't understand why they didn't allow it. It only makes it more frustrating that we can mix and match guns in warrior squads but you can't here.
TheArchmagos wrote: Maybe we need to petition GW to change it so you can it really is arbitrary that we can't seeing as most factions can do that (especially all marines with their thunderhammer stormshield squads), it's not even based on what comes in the kit so I really don't understand why they didn't allow it. It only makes it more frustrating that we can mix and match guns in warrior squads but you can't here.
TheArchmagos wrote: Maybe we need to petition GW to change it so you can it really is arbitrary that we can't seeing as most factions can do that (especially all marines with their thunderhammer stormshield squads), it's not even based on what comes in the kit so I really don't understand why they didn't allow it. It only makes it more frustrating that we can mix and match guns in warrior squads but you can't here.
Can't mix THs and storm bolters.
You definitely can have both TH/SS and storm bolter/power fist guys in the same squad.
Nobody can mix mix assault terminators and shooty terminators which would be the equivalent, necrons have always had less in-unit versatility. No special weapons or assault weapons, weapon options have always been binary with bikes being the exception.
Mixing scythguard and shield guard doesn’t sound so great anyways. It’s always nice to have options but you’re just asking for an identity crisis. Are you sitting on an objective or are you big game hunting? Can’t do both.
The difference between the offense of scythguard and shieldguard is just as large as the befensive stats. Double the ap and being able to spike up to strength 8 is big money. No vehicle can take a full charge from a unit of scythguard.
Death guard are a boogeyman but marines are still going to be massively more common. If we are talking primaris then it’s two failed five up saves kills a marine vs every successful wound picks one up. If we are talking terminators they either get two 4 ups per dead model or each failed 5++ pulls a model. Those are massive efficiency swings.
Scytheguard should always be hiding out of los as much as possible until they are ready to charge, shieldguard will be able to sit on an objective in the open loud and proud meaning they are going to be getting charged frequently. Plenty of units will have the output to take a big chunk out before you get to activate.
Two polar opposites as far as intended use between the two units. They are both excellent at what they do, mixing would just water them down.
Ork Nobs of both varieties, the entire GK codex, Chaos Terminators, Thunderwolves, Vanguard Veterans, Crisis + Broadside teams (albeit these are guns not melee weapons)
If I thought more I could list more, and please dont think I am intentionally being awkward, but I do think there are way more examples of mixed weapon units than there are single weapon units.
So much so, that I think the single wepaon squads are limited to our own (Lych + Preatorian) & Primaris units.
Was talking about codex space marines. The far and away most common army(s). Terminator squads and assault terminators. Not broadsides or ork nobs. Yes there are units that have mixed weapon options. That has NEVER been the necrons schtick.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you’re going to include every unit in the game then that changes the math on the different offensive outputs.
Or warriors or immortals.... what are you talking about? Exactly which units in the necron codex can mix weapon options? Tomb blades and wraiths. Pretty positive that’s it.
I was talking about space marines terminators. You started going on about tau and orks when I was explicitly talking about space marine terminators. I called out death guard as being different. As in death guard terminators. Which have three wounds and unique weapon mixing.
Custodies are not space marine terminators. Also wasn’t talking about forge world.
I was comparing lychguard to space marine terminators.
You’re turning this conversation into something it’s not.
Ok... not really though, you can choose to have guns on them or not, there isn’t two different flavors you can mix in, it’s binary, you’ve got them or you don’t. But fine, bikes, wraiths spyders, kind of.
Just about every necron unit that has different load out options is purely binary. There is zero precedent or reason as to why lychguard should be able to have mixed weapon load outs within a single squad. It’s not how necrons work. You can’t even turn down the heavy weapon in skorpekh squads, it’s just 1 in 3 has them.
Cauthon wrote: Or warriors or immortals.... what are you talking about? Exactly which units in the necron codex can mix weapon options? Tomb blades and wraiths. Pretty positive that’s it.
I was talking about space marines terminators. You started going on about tau and orks when I was explicitly talking about space marine terminators. I called out death guard as being different. As in death guard terminators. Which have three wounds and unique weapon mixing.
Custodies are not space marine terminators. Also wasn’t talking about forge world.
I was comparing lychguard to space marine terminators.
You’re turning this conversation into something it’s not.
If you want to be the nitpicky about it, then include all Space Marine Terminators
Grey Knights, Dark Angels, Space Wolves (I think Wolf Guard still can?), Loyalist Assault Terminators, Relic Terminators, all Chaos Terminators (not sure on Scarabs from TS, but I am willing to bet)
All of the above can mix CCWs in the squad. Precedent is definately there, why can't we do that?
And truth be told I am pretty certain Assault Terminators can mix TH/SS & LC in a single squad anyway, not that I do, because I only own TH/SS versions
Cauthon wrote: Or warriors or immortals.... what are you talking about? Exactly which units in the necron codex can mix weapon options? Tomb blades and wraiths. Pretty positive that’s it.
I was talking about space marines terminators. You started going on about tau and orks when I was explicitly talking about space marine terminators. I called out death guard as being different. As in death guard terminators. Which have three wounds and unique weapon mixing.
Custodies are not space marine terminators. Also wasn’t talking about forge world.
I was comparing lychguard to space marine terminators.
You’re turning this conversation into something it’s not.
You were, I wasn't.
You can mix Warriors guns. And even Lokhust's can take a heavy per squad. So of units with multiple weapon options, 3 units have no flexibility and 4 have full flexibility. Destroyers are their own thing.
Now that we've established that it's not somehow against the Necron way of life, let's take it back to the original point. Most other factions can mix/match their heavy infantry. Many have been mentioned, Bullgryn are another. We're merely saying it would be nice to have the option, since there is no good reason why not.
Vineheart01 wrote: so i ran Mephrit and holy crap the amount of times that +3" on my guns came into practice was ridiculous. Almost every turn bout 5-8 reapers minimum would not have had a shot w/o that increase lol.
Normally i play Novokh, but i wasnted to use the Silent King and running both him and Anrakyr sounds like a bad idea. Didnt expect Mephrit to be that noticable.
Mephrit Gauss Immortals are the truth versus all the 2+ and 3+ saves. AP 3 firing from 16.5 inches out is highly relevant.
That's actually the direction I would go with a soup build with a Mephrit fire base and an Eternal Expansionist Canoptek screen.
Was thinking you could potentially run the immortals in a custom dynasty with Pitiless Hunters and Healthy Paranoia too, so you'd get the extra 3" range plus the ability to rapid fire if you remained stationary.
A patrol with 30 immortals dishing out 60 shots a turn from the back, alongside a obsec outrider with a bunch of wraiths and scarabs could be real mean
That does sound really good, and it's perhaps even better than the Mephrit immortals.
I just like Mephrit more overall for a list comp. The Warlord Trait for a melee CCB and the Royal Warden Relic are really strong. I like the availability of a battalion, which I normally wouldn't field with Necrons, but it provides strong CP support when 3xImmortals are a strong option. You can funnel that extra CP availability into fueling CP intense options like C'tan and Lokhust Destroyers.
Blndmage wrote: While I know it's a silly list, it's so classic Old Cron that I can't resist. The fact that this list fits 2000 exactly feels like a sign to run it:
Spoiler:
3 Monoliths with Gauss Flux Arcs
60 Warriors
Lord - Warlord, Veil, Enduring Will WLT, Staff of Light
Lord - Staff of Light
Custom Dynasty: 6" pregame move and Rad Wreathed
Exactly 2,000 with 6PL to start with, unsure about Reserves and such
Not bad but certainly not really competitive.
I'd consider a SK but 60 Warriors is my taste.
Blndmage wrote: While I know it's a silly list, it's so classic Old Cron that I can't resist. The fact that this list fits 2000 exactly feels like a sign to run it:
Spoiler:
3 Monoliths with Gauss Flux Arcs
60 Warriors
Lord - Warlord, Veil, Enduring Will WLT, Staff of Light
Lord - Staff of Light
Custom Dynasty: 6" pregame move and Rad Wreathed
Exactly 2,000 with 6PL to start with, unsure about Reserves and such
Do it man, I bet you'll have an absolute blast! Have to agree, don't think its the most competitive as you'll probably struggle to play some of the missions with so few units.
Having said that, one monolith is hard enough to deal with on its own... dropping down three of them is probably enough for some people to call you a bully lol
Vineheart01 wrote: so i ran Mephrit and holy crap the amount of times that +3" on my guns came into practice was ridiculous. Almost every turn bout 5-8 reapers minimum would not have had a shot w/o that increase lol.
Normally i play Novokh, but i wasnted to use the Silent King and running both him and Anrakyr sounds like a bad idea. Didnt expect Mephrit to be that noticable.
Mephrit Gauss Immortals are the truth versus all the 2+ and 3+ saves. AP 3 firing from 16.5 inches out is highly relevant.
That's actually the direction I would go with a soup build with a Mephrit fire base and an Eternal Expansionist Canoptek screen.
Was thinking you could potentially run the immortals in a custom dynasty with Pitiless Hunters and Healthy Paranoia too, so you'd get the extra 3" range plus the ability to rapid fire if you remained stationary.
A patrol with 30 immortals dishing out 60 shots a turn from the back, alongside a obsec outrider with a bunch of wraiths and scarabs could be real mean
That does sound really good, and it's perhaps even better than the Mephrit immortals.
I just like Mephrit more overall for a list comp. The Warlord Trait for a melee CCB and the Royal Warden Relic are really strong. I like the availability of a battalion, which I normally wouldn't field with Necrons, but it provides strong CP support when 3xImmortals are a strong option. You can funnel that extra CP availability into fueling CP intense options like C'tan and Lokhust Destroyers.
I hear you, Mephrit immortals do sound fun. Running 3x10 next to a Warden is how I'd run them in the custom dynasty too - they lose a substantial amount of punch when they aren't Novokh so that fall back and shoot is super strong. Mephrit was also how I ran my warriors right at the start of the new codex until those Novokh lists started creeping up.
My current theory is that the custom dynasty looks good on paper, but unless you absolutely nail your deployment, you're still gonna be moving your immortals into position for the first turn at least, in which case Mephrit should give you more utility right out the gate.
I'll let you guys know how the test games go anyway
SK and Tesla immortals absolutely dominated 2 games for me this sat. Advance so you hit on 4's and reroll all your hits with SK. Compared to a 10 man immortal that is shooting 10 gauss shots on turn 1 and moving 6" with +1 to move Tesla immortals move 10" and put out about 26 hits + malevolent arching - which adds up big time over multiple turns of use. On paper gauss looks soo much better. But Tesla is just so much more functional. It is worth the additional points. I still think Gauss is better on tomb blades - but for immortals who almost never get to rapid fire range in the first 2 turns - pay for the tesla.
Xenomancers wrote: SK and Tesla immortals absolutely dominated 2 games for me this sat. Advance so you hit on 4's and reroll all your hits with SK. Compared to a 10 man immortal that is shooting 10 gauss shots on turn 1 and moving 6" with +1 to move Tesla immortals move 10" and put out about 26 hits + malevolent arching - which adds up big time over multiple turns of use. On paper gauss looks soo much better. But Tesla is just so much more functional. It is worth the additional points. I still think Gauss is better on tomb blades - but for immortals who almost never get to rapid fire range in the first 2 turns - pay for the tesla.
if you need AP just prioritize your protocols.
It should be 25 hits, 20 shots, 10 re-rolls, five 4s and 5s each for 10 hits and 15 hits from the five 6s. I don't understand how you can say tesla is worth it on Immortals where it costs 2 pts more than Gauss but not on TBs where it costs 0 pts extra. Tesla also stops looking hot as soon as SK dies. The same pts worth of TBs as 10 Tesla Immortals output 33,78 hits and move 14" instead of 10", 30,7 hits with 3+ Sv. They also benefit to a larger degree from additional buffs like Lord's Will and My Will Be Done. I don't really know why you need Immortals at all, Tomb Blades do both better, the mobility is big for gauss and the tesla surcharge on Immortals is BS and if you have some way of cheating your gauss Immortals into range you might as well cheat a blob of reaper Warriors in.
Unless im really confused I'm pretty sure the math is out on that one bro, tesla tomb blades are 30ppm so for 190pts you get 6 models meaning 24 shots base compared to 20 base from the immortals
I get where you're coming from but the roles between the two units are really different, I think its unfair to say that TB invalidate immortals. T5 3+ with a 2+ in cover is a really strong profile to have in the backfield
Xenomancers wrote: SK and Tesla immortals absolutely dominated 2 games for me this sat. Advance so you hit on 4's and reroll all your hits with SK. Compared to a 10 man immortal that is shooting 10 gauss shots on turn 1 and moving 6" with +1 to move Tesla immortals move 10" and put out about 26 hits + malevolent arching - which adds up big time over multiple turns of use. On paper gauss looks soo much better. But Tesla is just so much more functional. It is worth the additional points. I still think Gauss is better on tomb blades - but for immortals who almost never get to rapid fire range in the first 2 turns - pay for the tesla.
if you need AP just prioritize your protocols.
It should be 25 hits, 20 shots, 10 re-rolls, five 4s and 5s each for 10 hits and 15 hits from the five 6s. I don't understand how you can say tesla is worth it on Immortals where it costs 2 pts more than Gauss but not on TBs where it costs 0 pts extra. Tesla also stops looking hot as soon as SK dies. The same pts worth of TBs as 10 Tesla Immortals output 33,78 hits and move 14" instead of 10", 30,7 hits with 3+ Sv. They also benefit to a larger degree from additional buffs like Lord's Will and My Will Be Done. I don't really know why you need Immortals at all, Tomb Blades do both better, the mobility is big for gauss and the tesla surcharge on Immortals is BS and if you have some way of cheating your gauss Immortals into range you might as well cheat a blob of reaper Warriors in.
Realistically - TB have the ability to get into rapid fire range on their own.
Why need immortals? They have 2 attacks / have far more durability to mutlidamage attacks / are objective secured / are troops?
I wasn't suggesting you take immortals instead of TB. TB are awesome. Tesla immortals are just a lot better than gauss. 2pmm is literally nothing to have 2-3 times the damage output on the first turn on top of better positioning. That being said - tesla TB can work too in theory - never used them though. I always give TB gauss and they always kill it. Also - if SK dies - you probably lost the game anyways unless it's later in the game.
A squad of Tesla immortals is certainly usable with the Silent King. If you MWBD them to hit on 2+ and use the Silent King to reroll anything that isn't a 6, you get 1.5 hits per shot at 24 inch range/30 inch threat. That's enough output to chip in to anything with a 3+ save or worse, though it still does 1/3 less work than the rapid firing gauss versus 3+. If the meta ever gets less marine heavy, I'd certainly consider putting some Tesla Immortals in.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: Immortals are troops btw, if youre spamming them and bringing a dynasty specifically for them why not bump up the numbers?
No rule of 3 for them.
I don't think they are good enough on their own to justify taking more than the 3 squads for a battalion. I think the first three squads go a long way towards filling their niche. The full value proposition of the unit comes with the CP savings from being troops, in my opinion.
LiMunPai wrote: A squad of Tesla immortals is certainly usable with the Silent King. If you MWBD them to hit on 2+ and use the Silent King to reroll anything that isn't a 6, you get 1.5 hits per shot at 24 inch range/30 inch threat. That's enough output to chip in to anything with a 3+ save or worse, though it still does 1/3 less work than the rapid firing gauss versus 3+. If the meta ever gets less marine heavy, I'd certainly consider putting some Tesla Immortals in.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: Immortals are troops btw, if youre spamming them and bringing a dynasty specifically for them why not bump up the numbers?
No rule of 3 for them.
I don't think they are good enough on their own to justify taking more than the 3 squads for a battalion. I think the first three squads go a long way towards filling their niche. The full value proposition of the unit comes with the CP savings from being troops, in my opinion.
Yeah I totally agree.
The build I was using was SK 20 warriors with veil and 2x 9 man immortal units with tesla. 5 man immortals are a waste IMO. Fairly easy to blow up in 1 go with a dedicate unit. So you pretty much have to take max units.
Another good build I think is a ghost arch 10x warriors 20 warriors and 10 immortals - I would still go tesla in this case though because they will do more damage in the first 2 turns. After that they are likely in melee.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: Immortals are troops btw, if youre spamming them and bringing a dynasty specifically for them why not bump up the numbers?
No rule of 3 for them.
Totally true - can spam if you wish. I think back line deathmarks would do better than spamming immortals though. take 5x units of immortals 3x units of deathmarks SK and some supporting staff. I think you'd get similar results to warriors spam.
So i was reading the relentless onslaught strat and word for word it says:
"Use this stratagem in the shooting phase, when a Core Infantry unit is selected to shoot. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit makes an attack with a Rapid Fire weapon, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores one additional hit"
I honestly might be high, but the way I read that is you pay 1cp for every core infantry rapid fire unit in your army to get exploding 6s for the whole phase??
It doesn't say anything about selecting ONE unit.
If this is legit then i honestly think its broken lol. I might just be missing something really obvious though...
Xenomancers wrote: SK and Tesla immortals absolutely dominated 2 games for me this sat. Advance so you hit on 4's and reroll all your hits with SK. Compared to a 10 man immortal that is shooting 10 gauss shots on turn 1 and moving 6" with +1 to move Tesla immortals move 10" and put out about 26 hits + malevolent arching - which adds up big time over multiple turns of use. On paper gauss looks soo much better. But Tesla is just so much more functional. It is worth the additional points. I still think Gauss is better on tomb blades - but for immortals who almost never get to rapid fire range in the first 2 turns - pay for the tesla.
if you need AP just prioritize your protocols.
It should be 25 hits, 20 shots, 10 re-rolls, five 4s and 5s each for 10 hits and 15 hits from the five 6s. I don't understand how you can say tesla is worth it on Immortals where it costs 2 pts more than Gauss but not on TBs where it costs 0 pts extra. Tesla also stops looking hot as soon as SK dies. The same pts worth of TBs as 10 Tesla Immortals output 33,78 hits and move 14" instead of 10", 30,7 hits with 3+ Sv. They also benefit to a larger degree from additional buffs like Lord's Will and My Will Be Done. I don't really know why you need Immortals at all, Tomb Blades do both better, the mobility is big for gauss and the tesla surcharge on Immortals is BS and if you have some way of cheating your gauss Immortals into range you might as well cheat a blob of reaper Warriors in.
Realistically - TB have the ability to get into rapid fire range on their own. Why need immortals? They have 2 attacks / have far more durability to mutlidamage attacks / are objective secured / are troops? I wasn't suggesting you take immortals instead of TB. TB are awesome. Tesla immortals are just a lot better than gauss. 2pmm is literally nothing to have 2-3 times the damage output on the first turn on top of better positioning. That being said - tesla TB can work too in theory - never used them though. I always give TB gauss and they always kill it. Also - if SK dies - you probably lost the game anyways unless it's later in the game.
Fair points, I am not an expert so I was genuinely curious.
TheNEWnew wrote: Unless im really confused I'm pretty sure the math is out on that one bro, tesla tomb blades are 30ppm so for 190pts you get 6 models meaning 24 shots base compared to 20 base from the immortals
190/30=6,33 and they can move faster than advancing Immortals without advancing.
So i was reading the relentless onslaught strat and it doesn't say anything about selecting ONE unit.
Yes, it does.
"Use this stratagem in the shooting phase, when a Core Infantry unit is selected to shoot. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit..."
"a Core Infantry unit" "that unit"
Each refers to ONE unit and the same SPECIFIC unit. Don't worry I had to edit this post 3 times, we're not robots, can't work on 100% efficiency all the time.
A core unit can be interoperated as all core units - technically. We all know they mean.
The correct way to word this stratagem would be.
"Select a core unit - that unit gets this rule for its rapid fire weapons for the remainder of the phase. ect"
Xenomancers wrote: A core unit can be interoperated as all core units - technically. We all know they mean.
The correct way to word this stratagem would be. "Select a core unit - that unit gets this rule for its rapid fire weapons for the remainder of the phase. ect"
Not needed, you also use the exact same words "a" and "that" to refer to the same thing, there is no semantic difference.
"Use this stratagem in the shooting phase, when a Core Infantry unit is selected to shoot. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in that unit makes an attack with a Rapid Fire weapon, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores one additional hit"
"Use this stratagem in the shooting phase, select a Core Infantry unit - that unit gets this rule for its Rapid Fire weapons until the end of the phase: an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores one additional hit"
"Use this stratagem in the shooting phase. Until the end of the phase, each time a model in a Core Infantry unit makes an attack with a Rapid Fire weapon, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores one additional hit"
"Use this stratagem in the shooting phase, all Core Infantry units gain this rule for their Rapid Fire weapons until the end of the phase: an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores one additional hit"
Only the latter two affect all Core Infantry units. Now obviously your version is shorter, but GW rules-writers are probably paid by the word like the old-timey serial authors if the rules for RP are anything to go by.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's got a whole lot of real big guns in it for blowing up all the 2+ and 3+ saves. I decided on the 30th immortal over the 9th Scarab. Not sure that's right, but it seems fine enough.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's got a whole lot of real big guns in it for blowing up all the 2+ and 3+ saves. I decided on the 30th immortal over the 9th Scarab. Not sure that's right, but it seems fine enough.
List consists mainly of shooty units (Immortals, Stalkers), one cc unit (C'tan) and disrupting units (Thralls, Scarabs).
Tactics would be to keep the enemy at arm's length.
Not sure if this will really work. At the competitive level eventually not.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's got a whole lot of real big guns in it for blowing up all the 2+ and 3+ saves. I decided on the 30th immortal over the 9th Scarab. Not sure that's right, but it seems fine enough.
List consists mainly of shooty units (Immortals, Stalkers), one cc unit (C'tan) and disrupting units (Thralls, Scarabs).
Tactics would be to keep the enemy at arm's length.
Not sure if this will really work. At the competitive level eventually not.
It's definitely a castling gunline with a couple of best in class melee and screening options thrown in. You forgot the 5 attack strength 8 damage 3 CCB when accounting for melee, though. I'd call the playstyle a balanced gunline approach. This would certainly be a list you only pull out when you read a mostly space marine centric meta.
I'm considering dropping a Doomstalker in favor of upgrading one immortal squad to a reaper warrior block and taking a res orb on the Lord. That is to take advantage of having veil and Royal Warden for continuous fall back support. I'd also probably split up my Scarabs into small move blocking packets instead of scenario holders so that the warriors get Chrono priority in that configuration.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's got a whole lot of real big guns in it for blowing up all the 2+ and 3+ saves. I decided on the 30th immortal over the 9th Scarab. Not sure that's right, but it seems fine enough.
List consists mainly of shooty units (Immortals, Stalkers), one cc unit (C'tan) and disrupting units (Thralls, Scarabs).
Tactics would be to keep the enemy at arm's length.
Not sure if this will really work. At the competitive level eventually not.
It's definitely a castling gunline with a couple of best in class melee and screening options thrown in. You forgot the 5 attack strength 8 damage 3 CCB when accounting for melee, though. I'd call the playstyle a balanced gunline approach. This would certainly be a list you only pull out when you read a mostly space marine centric meta.
I'm considering dropping a Doomstalker in favor of upgrading one immortal squad to a reaper warrior block and taking a res orb on the Lord. That is to take advantage of having veil and Royal Warden for continuous fall back support. I'd also probably split up my Scarabs into small move blocking packets instead of scenario holders so that the warriors get Chrono priority in that configuration.
To be fair, I can actually see the doomstalkers working in your list and I usually don't like them. Between their overwatch and the wardens fall back and shoot you've actually got a fair few charge deterrents. That said, between the stalkers and the technomancer, its a full quarter of your points taken up on a really swingy unit. It certainly seems like a gamble IMHO but test the list bro and let us know how you get on
The list would need a lot of reconfiguring to get TSK into it. The list would probably swap 1 Immortals, 3 Doomstalker, and the techno for TSK, a big blob of reaper warriors, maybe a Chrono, and a res orb. I'd probably want to find the points to swap at least one squad of the immortals over to Tesla with TSK support.
I think there's probably a TSK build in Mephrit that looks something like that, but it loses a lot of work over the current build. The Nightbringer + TSK + Mephrit CCB + Royal Warden + Chrono or 2 is a little too top heavy without as much work, so that list probably needs some refactoring. I'm not opposed to dojoing a TSK Mephrit build, but that isn't what this build is.
Yeah they can fire overwatch for free. I'm sure there was an errata/FAQ somewhere but I can't find it for the life of me
The Doomstalker can fire Overwatch because they have an ability on their datasheet that specifically allows them to do so. You only need to spend CP to fire Overwatch if you're using the 'Fire Overwatch' stratagem.
Immortals on the whole benefit more from SK than any unit in the army.
Doom stalkers give an enemy the opportunity to shoot heavy weapons which are almost ''useless'' vs. infantry.
Either a fully armored army or no armor at all bar CCB.
Immortals on the whole benefit more from SK than any unit in the army.
Doom stalkers give an enemy the opportunity to shoot heavy weapons which are almost ''useless'' vs. infantry.
Either a fully armored army or no armor at all bar CCB.
There's some wisdom there, but it does heavily constrain your list building options. We're not space marines; we don't have every role filled on every chassis. I'd say we could do something like you're suggesting if you're willing to allow for C'tan shards. 4+ invuln and 3 wounds loss max per phase does leave the heaviest weapons fairly stranded. With 2 detachments and 2 C'tan to hello crack armor along with a melee CCB, we could still make an offensively balanced force with a fairly heavy weapon stranding defensive profile. That build is not what I'm up to, but I'd like to see a list for something like that.
Immortals on the whole benefit more from SK than any unit in the army.
Doom stalkers give an enemy the opportunity to shoot heavy weapons which are almost ''useless'' vs. infantry.
Either a fully armored army or no armor at all bar CCB.
If you are gonna run nothing but 1 wound models it makes sense. You set yourself up for hard counters though. For example my space marine lists it almost entirely anti infantry firepower because my plan to deal with heavy armor is to drown it in a hundreds of shots (and it works) it would be a dream to run into a full infantry army.
that is my issue with doomstalkers.
Initially i was all over them, bought 2 and immediately tried to run them every time.
Problem is literally the only other "big" target is a ctan, which...kinda doesnt draw fire the same way a tank does.
So all the anti-tank stuff goes to the stalkers, even if i park them in a bunch of trees and said anti-tank gun has to kinda expose itself to get a shot they still do it because its not that useful against a horde of warriors/scarabs/tombblades lol.
I'm so used to running several vehicles, since i also have orks/admech, that i dont even think about how many i got i usually ALWAYS have 8+ vehicles(or monsters) minimum. Except necrons, and i keep spacing that out and getting into trouble for it.
Vineheart01 wrote: that is my issue with doomstalkers.
Initially i was all over them, bought 2 and immediately tried to run them every time.
Problem is literally the only other "big" target is a ctan, which...kinda doesnt draw fire the same way a tank does.
So all the anti-tank stuff goes to the stalkers, even if i park them in a bunch of trees and said anti-tank gun has to kinda expose itself to get a shot they still do it because its not that useful against a horde of warriors/scarabs/tombblades lol.
I'm so used to running several vehicles, since i also have orks/admech, that i dont even think about how many i got i usually ALWAYS have 8+ vehicles(or monsters) minimum. Except necrons, and i keep spacing that out and getting into trouble for it.
'
Ehh - IMO you gotta bring some big stuff.
I am usually bringing 3
Sk a DDa and something else
I think I have rounded out my competitive list now.
All Szarekahn
Supreme Command
TSK
Batallion
Chrono - Lance - Tesla Weave/Immortal Pride
Techno Cloak - Voltaic staff/Hypermaterial Ablator
i need to stop being lazy and finish my ghost arc/doomsdayarc. I magnetized it and then walked away lol.
Not even planning to put the 10 warriors in it and i still am dreading painting that thing.
As a Neophyte Overlord (woke up during the Indomitus Release) I am heading into a tourney this weekend with pretty much my entire Necrons collection (I usually play Dark Angels but we had to submit our lists mid-Jan)...I think my Doomstalker might do OK as a Distraction Carnifex but who knows?
Overlord, Royal Warden with Veil, Chronomancer
Reaper Warriors x 20, Reaper Warriors x 20, Flayer Warriors x 10, Tesla Immortals x 5
Skorpekh Destroyers x 6, Triarch Stalker with Heat Ray
Nightbringer - return with my shield or on it Scarab Swarms x 6, Scarab Swarms x 6
Doomstalker
Vineheart01 wrote: i need to stop being lazy and finish my ghost arc/doomsdayarc. I magnetized it and then walked away lol.
Not even planning to put the 10 warriors in it and i still am dreading painting that thing.
I actually just finished painting it last night - some final details was all it needed. I did not install the warrior bodies on it and it really lowered the paint time. It was still a pain to bush all those arches from every angle! 10 warriors in the arc is not a requirement for sure - since I run a battalion though it just makes sense. At the very least it gets the unit 3" farther up the table if you start them in there. An additional 10 warriors does give it a job to do if by some tragedy 20 warriors get popped. The only question for me is reaper or flayers on the 10 man unit. The flayers at least make you feel better about sitting on an objective.
Even if they're magnets for anti-tank fire, their 48" range means they can help screen your deep-backfield from deepstrike, etc... while still contributing.
I don't think they're auto-include tier, but they're far from Annihilation Barge tier, as well.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Even if they're magnets for anti-tank fire, their 48" range means they can help screen your deep-backfield from deepstrike, etc... while still contributing.
I don't think they're auto-include tier, but they're far from Annihilation Barge tier, as well.
If only they would give the anni barge ap-1 on it's tesla cannons!
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Even if they're magnets for anti-tank fire, their 48" range means they can help screen your deep-backfield from deepstrike, etc... while still contributing.
I don't think they're auto-include tier, but they're far from Annihilation Barge tier, as well.
If only they would give the anni barge ap-1 on it's tesla cannons!
No! No AP, only more strength!
(seriously in this age of everything getting a little AP it feels so weird that even the heavy tesla has no ap)
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Even if they're magnets for anti-tank fire, their 48" range means they can help screen your deep-backfield from deepstrike, etc... while still contributing.
I don't think they're auto-include tier, but they're far from Annihilation Barge tier, as well.
If only they would give the anni barge ap-1 on it's tesla cannons!
No! No AP, only more strength!
(seriously in this age of everything getting a little AP it feels so weird that even the heavy tesla has no ap)
Str 8 or shred would also be nice. It is a durable little platform that I would like to use.
An article on Goonhammer has me looking at the Psychomancer again. Pretty sure it's still terrible though. Anyone actually used it?
I'm thinking it would be one of the only HQ choices that actually wants to get veiled out with some warriors. The Veil sometimes feels like a bit of a hot potato in my lists- all the characters would rather stay back supporting other units than be the guy that flys off on an aggressive maneuver. A Royal Warden, or Noble with a Res Orb might be useful if the veiled unit is still there the next turn, but they don't add a lot the turn the Veil is used.
The Psychomancer could use it's always fight last ability to help protect a unit of 20 Warriors it's veiled up. My Veiled Warriors are usually Novokh that have MWBD on, so anything charging them could be hit with 40 S4/5 AP-1 attacks hitting on 2's, before it gets to swing. I'd probably give the Psycho a Cryptogeometric Adjuster (-1 to hit for an enemy within 12" in the shooting phase) too.
So, a psychomancer to make warriors fight first, a technomancer to reanimate them, a chronomancer to give them 5+ inv, a plasmancer to inflict some MW on the enemy melee unit, an overlord to MWBD them.... Looks like a lot of HQ support to me.
i just dont see what the psychomancer is supposed to do. His gun sucks His abilities go off at the wrong time (except obsec denial) so they take forever to actually do something. All he has going for him is his specific Arkana at least does some mortals.
Lot of necron abilities feel like they go off at the wrong time but he's the ultimate example of that crap. If he triggered in the movement phase i'd probably be hard pressed to NOT include one.
I wouldnt even say veil'ing warriors over and making one unit fight last is a benefit because its only a 12" reach, meaning either you plopped your warriors in the middle of the board or theyre gonna shoot the unit out of reach of him before his ability can go off, again thanks to crap timing.
p5freak wrote: So, a psychomancer to make warriors fight first, a technomancer to reanimate them, a chronomancer to give them 5+ inv, a plasmancer to inflict some MW on the enemy melee unit, an overlord to MWBD them.... Looks like a lot of HQ support to me.
Well I only actually mentioned a Psychomancer and MWBD. You would probably always take a Chronmancer before the Psycho though as he's much better support for 20 Warriors. Any more than those 3 would be too much (and wouldn't fit in a patrol).
I wouldnt even say veil'ing warriors over and making one unit fight last is a benefit because its only a 12" reach, meaning either you plopped your warriors in the middle of the board or theyre gonna shoot the unit out of reach of him before his ability can go off, again thanks to crap timing.
You would be intentionally dropping within 12" of an assault unit in order to use the ability, but shooting something else.
p5freak wrote: So, a psychomancer to make warriors fight first, a technomancer to reanimate them, a chronomancer to give them 5+ inv, a plasmancer to inflict some MW on the enemy melee unit, an overlord to MWBD them.... Looks like a lot of HQ support to me.
Psychomancer is underrated and definitely better than the Technomancer (which is a trap) and Plasmancer.
The only Despair ability that is really affected by activating in the morale phase is the no overwatch & fight last one. Otherwise it's a great toolbox of powers designed to deny the enemy from scoring points and stop a unit from getting a lucky charge in their turn.
Nightmare Shroud is very powerful because it is -1 to both leadership and combat attrition. 6" range is frustrating but that's why you should run it with Flayed Ones. Let them engage and have the Psychomancer sit behind them, buffing their ability to make enemies run.
IMO the Psychomancer is certainly more of a niche selection and I really don't see him getting picked in a silver tide style list over a chronomancer, or even something like a reanimator if you've to the points spare to be totally honest.
Where I genuinely could see him getting chosen is in those canpotek obsec lists. They're often much more aligned to the MSU style, so, being able to turn off obsec on a bunch of ork boyz for example and then nick the objective with a couple of wraiths could actually come in really clutch.
I think his abilities are certainly more powerful when you're running smaller obsec units at least
Edit: The other thing is there's a chance that the psychomancers ability doesn't actually go off, albeit a small one most of the time. Its certainly not ideal when the rest of its utility is so minimal
Cynista wrote: Psychomancer is underrated and definitely better than the Technomancer (which is a trap) and Plasmancer.
The only Despair ability that is really affected by activating in the morale phase is the no overwatch & fight last one. Otherwise it's a great toolbox of powers designed to deny the enemy from scoring points and stop a unit from getting a lucky charge in their turn.
Nightmare Shroud is very powerful because it is -1 to both leadership and combat attrition. 6" range is frustrating but that's why you should run it with Flayed Ones. Let them engage and have the Psychomancer sit behind them, buffing their ability to make enemies run.
What makes you think the Techno is a trap? The control node with Thrall of the Silent King, Voltaic Staff, and Fail Safe Overcharger in the Canoptek list has been kind of an all star.
I've run a Technomancer a lot without going full canoptek. There's usually a Wraith unit and some scarabs for the control node to buff, which wouldn't be worth 90pts on it's own, but I often find he makes his points back in resurrected Lychguard and Warriors. It's not uncommon to get a Lychguard and a couple of Warriors back in a turn with the strat.
techno with the cloak is incredible. Give voltaic staff and res d3 warriors a turn and heal something. Just having a fast character is useful enough too.
Psychomancer has almost no value by comparison it does damage...woot. Plasmancer is cool and actually useful but all it does is damage - not needed - what you need is more warriors.
Cynista wrote: Psychomancer is underrated and definitely better than the Technomancer (which is a trap) and Plasmancer.
The only Despair ability that is really affected by activating in the morale phase is the no overwatch & fight last one. Otherwise it's a great toolbox of powers designed to deny the enemy from scoring points and stop a unit from getting a lucky charge in their turn.
Nightmare Shroud is very powerful because it is -1 to both leadership and combat attrition. 6" range is frustrating but that's why you should run it with Flayed Ones. Let them engage and have the Psychomancer sit behind them, buffing their ability to make enemies run.
What makes you think the Techno is a trap? The control node with Thrall of the Silent King, Voltaic Staff, and Fail Safe Overcharger in the Canoptek list has been kind of an all star.
That's 120 points for a model that can't repair anything, can still only move 5" and can still be sniped easily. And has to be the Warlord for Thrall, so no CCB in that list. It would be an all star if it could take both wargear options. Since it can't, it's a trap IMO
Pretty sure any advantage you gain by taking a 120 point Technomancer will be done better by simply taking more of Wraiths or Scarabs. The only time I ever see it being useful and worth the cost is with a squad of Spyders. But I don't think they're particularly great either. And sure, you do need to take HQ's, true - and there's 3 or 4 options that are just better for their points.
while im not agreeing that techomancer idea is good, you totally can have thrall of the silent king w/o him being your warlord....
Warlord traits granted by a strat to non-warlords are considered warlords for the purpose of that trait.
That being said i find it hard to not put thrall on whatever noble i got (assuming he isnt named) because 9" MWBD makes a big difference. Mostly because i dont want them in melee majority of the time and the other traits SUCK ROYAL ****
Ok fair, I forgot about Rarefied Nobility. But then that is even more investment and as mentioned, can't give it to a better suited HQ (like one with MWBD)
I don't think the Technomancer is terrible, just not as great as it first appears and certainly not a no brainer, hence a trap.
For sure, chrono is the only auto-take cryptek and probably the only one i'd be hard pressed to scrap for something else. Techno is fine but i dont think he's amazing, so good inclusion just dont hinge anything on him
Have to admit though i didnt notice he can take the voliatic staff. Thats nifty, since his base weapon sucks and that opens up the tesla strat for AoE mortals. Overlord always has the Orb, so i never get to use that staff.
Cynista wrote: Ok fair, I forgot about Rarefied Nobility. But then that is even more investment and as mentioned, can't give it to a better suited HQ (like one with MWBD)
I don't think the Technomancer is terrible, just not as great as it first appears and certainly not a no brainer, hence a trap.
I disagree. I think it is auto include. The control node techno is kinda a trap as the units it buffs are ether too fast for him to keep up with or just want to sit in the back not moving - it is not a good situation. A cheap 80 point techno with canoptec cloak can zip around the table and provide supporting fire (voltaic staff) res warriors (d3 per turn) heal vehicals (ghost arch/silent king/ect). In that case - your CCB can take the relic res orb (IMO the only reason to take a non TSK noble).
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Vineheart01 wrote: For sure, chrono is the only auto-take cryptek and probably the only one i'd be hard pressed to scrap for something else.
Techno is fine but i dont think he's amazing, so good inclusion just dont hinge anything on him
Have to admit though i didnt notice he can take the voliatic staff. Thats nifty, since his base weapon sucks and that opens up the tesla strat for AoE mortals. Overlord always has the Orb, so i never get to use that staff.
Yeah - Voltaic staff is essential for him. It more the triples his offensive output.
The control node Techno has been really good in the Eternal Expansionist Cryptek List. The pregame advance is a big deal when you're that slow. He's mostly been able to apply all his buffs and get all his volt staff shots as a result. Wraiths with 3+ to hit and an extra attack are pretty murdery against non-DG/DA with the standard. I also play Doomstalkers that move towards the mid table with the pre game advance to get better LOS to the table in that list, which love the extra to hit.
I haven't played that Mephrit list I've been spinning up yet, and I might see the problem with his mobility in that build. Could be a trap, I suppose. I think the extra 3 inches on the Volt staff in Mephrit is pretty relevant there. No overcharger in that build; he's just supporting the Doomstalkers, shooting, and rezzing. I have considered giving him the deepstrike arcana, but I want to play it first to see if his mobility is actually a problem there.
I think the cloak techno at 80 points with the volt staff (A different list) is also a good buy if you're playing with some higher wound models he can repair and a brick of core units he can rez. I ran this guy in my Silent King build for a while until he got replaced with the cheap orb holding Lord.
He earns his spot as a cheap volt staff caddy with a lot of added utility, I think. His main competition for that role is the 100 point lord with Res Orb and Volt Staff, which gets the nod when you need the Lychguard support.
I've been loving the technomancer in my lists. Now I do run a pair of doomstalkers so him sticking near them helps their BS. But bringing back d3 warriors a turn has made my warrior blobs incredibly resilient and bringing back the warriors is a sneaky way to snake across the battlefield and get a bit more movement out of your crons.
2-3 turns of bringing back warriors pretty much pays for the model itself and anything else you can accomplish with it is gravy.
Also if your worried about getting sniped cryptothralls are pretty cheap and can perform most actions/act as a counter charge.
I've enjoyed playing with a sudo castle involving 2 doomstalkers, technomancer with node, cryptothralls, and a 20 warriors block.
The warriors screen out a lot of the army while threatening objectives, the doomstalkers provide Overwatch for them and anti-tank duties, the technomancer hugs the doomstalkers and returns warriors(really easy to string one back to him/the doomstalkers) and the cryptothrall provides sniper protection if needed otherwise acts as a counter charge for the warriors and action monkeys.
It's a 670pt block but it holds ground pretty well and the units synergize nicely with one another.
Punisher wrote: I've been loving the technomancer in my lists. Now I do run a pair of doomstalkers so him sticking near them helps their BS. But bringing back d3 warriors a turn has made my warrior blobs incredibly resilient and bringing back the warriors is a sneaky way to snake across the battlefield and get a bit more movement out of your crons.
2-3 turns of bringing back warriors pretty much pays for the model itself and anything else you can accomplish with it is gravy.
Also if your worried about getting sniped cryptothralls are pretty cheap and can perform most actions/act as a counter charge.
I've enjoyed playing with a sudo castle involving 2 doomstalkers, technomancer with node, cryptothralls, and a 20 warriors block.
The warriors screen out a lot of the army while threatening objectives, the doomstalkers provide Overwatch for them and anti-tank duties, the technomancer hugs the doomstalkers and returns warriors(really easy to string one back to him/the doomstalkers) and the cryptothrall provides sniper protection if needed otherwise acts as a counter charge for the warriors and action monkeys.
It's a 670pt block but it holds ground pretty well and the units synergize nicely with one another.
That's really similar to what I'm planning to do in my Mephrit list, but it's 2 Immortals squads and 1 Warriors squad. I'm going to try to get him next to the warriors, but rezzing 17 instead of 13/26/39 points is a good consolation prize if I can't. I wish Thrall of the SK added to the Rites range for that purpose, but them's the breaks.
In fairness these are good problems to have. The fact I'm not on board with the Technomancer means our codex is pretty balanced because it's not a bad unit. I just want to take a CCB & Chronomancer. And a C'tan, and Wraiths and a big blob of Flayed Ones. You only have so many points after all and choosing between lots of decent options is the place you want to be as a faction.
Cynista wrote: In fairness these are good problems to have. The fact I'm not on board with the Technomancer means our codex is pretty balanced because it's not a bad unit. I just want to take a CCB & Chronomancer. And a C'tan, and Wraiths and a big blob of Flayed Ones. You only have so many points after all and choosing between lots of decent options is the place you want to be as a faction.
I think we can all agree with that.
I feel like there's 3 or 4 competitively viable list structures in the book, feels good.
Hey guys, I just finished playing a game against the new Dark Angles and thought I'd tell you about it.
We played Priority Targets. My list was a Warden (with veil) + 30 Immortals in a custom dynasty with 3" extra range and rapid fire at full range from stationary, with the SK and an obsec/expansionist Outrider with 17 scarab bases, 2x4 wraiths, 10 lychguard, a chrono and a lord with the voltaic staff.
My opponent took 20 odd terminators in one brick of 10, one squad of 5 and a couple command squads, 9 attack bikes, Ezekiel, Azrael, 2 Talonmasters one of witch could overwatch on 2+, a Ravenwing Apothecary with the drop invuns to 5++ thing and a bunch of servitors.
For secondaries I took Priority Targets, Purge the Vermin and Ancient Machineries, while my opponent took WWSWF, Priority Targets and Stubborn Defiance.
The Dark Angles took the first turn and played fairly cagily, moving up his screening servitors while putting the attack bikes and talonmasters into position to shoot. I did under-estimate how much shooting his list had and lost a squad of immortals straight off the bat. Id deployed them fairly aggressively in the hopes that if I went first, I'd lock down some good firing lanes right across the board. Those Talonmaster putting out 18 shots each in devastator doctrine is pretty savage, especially when you havent had a chance to put any invuns up. The rest of his shooting cleared a couple scarab bases and there wasn't any declarable charges so that was pretty much it turn 1.
In my turn one, I had the canobsec detachment push forward hard to try and peg the dark angles back, with one scarab squad landing on an objective to set up ancient machineries. My opponent hadnt given me too much to shoot at, so between the SK and my two remaining immortal squads, I was able to kill one of the servitor units and knock a couple models off the big 10 man termy castle which had been deployed very aggressively. My charge phase was quite big though. I was able to tag the big termy unit with 1 of the wraith squads while the second wraith squad made a 7" charge against a servitor squad, wiped them and used the consolidate to clutch touch a back objective. My other scarab unit rolled an 11" charge against a 4man servitor unit, killed them off, then between the pile ins and consolidations was able to screen out a huge part of the board and tag the central objective. The 1st wraith squad pulled down another terminator and lost two of their number in return.
In the Dark Angles 2nd turn my opponent actually fell back with the big termy squad to try and free up some space and shoot the remaining 2 wraiths off the board, which in hindsight was a big mistake as I rolled super hot on the wariths 4++ and only took 2 damage from a talon master and an attack bike unit. Ezekiel slammed the scarab unit trying to perform ancient machineries with a power that took away their obsec and made them fail their action while the rest of my opponents shooting removed 5 more scarab bases. An attack bike squad then charged the ancient machinery scarabs and fell back using a strat to pull them just out of engagement range before i could punch back so that they could still contest the objective. The 5 man termy squad then made a short charge against the central scarab unit, killing a base which allowed me to pull the last 3 bases out of engagement range while remaining on the central objective. The second Wraith unit got charged by a 2 man command squad and ended up in a protracted combat with them on a backfield objective to contest it. The wraiths would eventually come out on top.
My second turn was the biggest swing in the game i think. I was able to veil a unit of immortals close to my opponents Priority Target objective, which also happened to be held by his stubborn defiance command squad, killing one of the models and wounding the other in the shooting phase. I was also able to wipe the attack bike squad that had pushed up onto the objective between my other immortal squad and the SK. The wraiths also moved through the big termy brick to tag both Ezekiel and Azreal, dropping Ezekiel to a single wound in the fight phase, with the last wraith surviving with 1 wound left in return. The main swing was the Lychgaurd making their charge onto the central objective and stripping the 5 man termy unit to just 1 model. The veild immortals did however fail their charge which I think would have practically been game then and there as I would have had obsec on 4/5 objectives.
From that point forward I was able to kind of pull the Dark angles apart. They had to use their attack bikes to try and contest objectives as i was able to pretty effectively kite the big termy unit (which actually ended the game with 8 models left thanks to the apothecary's healing ability!), drip feeding my remaining scarabs, and, eventually, immortals into them. A Talonmaster span round to help deal with the vield immortals only to end up reanimating them onto the priority target objective, while the lychgaurd held down the centre objective for the rest of the game! One final highlight was actually being able to catch a talonmaster with my chronomancer and lock him in combat.
Overall, I think my opponents game plan was solid if not executed poorly, as I was able to keep them to a 5 on primary over the last 2 turns. That said, they still scored a 15 on WWSWF (the last remaining termy from the 5 man squad fell back and was able to last out the game via some clutch 4++ saves) . Had the Dark Angles been able to screen out their backfield more effectively, they would have easily got 15 for both Priority Targets and Stubborn Defiance; veil was basically my only way of reaching said objective. Overall the game finished 86 to 73 in favour of the Necrons, so still pretty close, even though it certainly felt like I was in control from the end of the 2nd turn - my opponent was able to keep me to a 6 on Ancient Machineries and 10 for Purge while I maxed out both Primary and Priority Targets.
In terms of how my units performed, the wraiths have been the standout picks over my last two games. They're outrageously fast with the 6" pregame move and super effective at locking things in combat early enough into the game to make them a lot more manageable in the later stages. Lychgaurd remain a fantastic hammer unit and IMO should be close to an auto include in most lists. I don't really miss protocols, obsec scarabs more than make up for the loss of utility. Finally, rapid fire from stationary only really came up a couple of times but was certainly effective at catching the faster aspects of the dark angles nonetheless. I'm gonna keep it for my next couple of games to test it out more, but honestly between the base 5" move and rapid fire at 16.5" you really don't use it that much; in which case I think i'll switch it up to Mephrit for the extra AP.
Anyways, well done to anyone thats actually read this far! I've got a game against orks tomorrow and we're 1 for 1 at the moment, both games have been really close. If you guys have enjoyed reading this then let me know, I'm happy to write up the next game too.
TheNEWnew wrote: Hey guys, I just finished playing a game against the new Dark Angles and thought I'd tell you about it.
Spoiler:
We played Priority Targets. My list was a Warden (with veil) + 30 Immortals in a custom dynasty with 3" extra range and rapid fire at full range from stationary, with the SK and an obsec/expansionist Outrider with 17 scarab bases, 2x4 wraiths, 10 lychguard, a chrono and a lord with the voltaic staff.
My opponent took 20 odd terminators in one brick of 10, one squad of 5 and a couple command squads, 9 attack bikes, Ezekiel, Azrael, 2 Talonmasters one of witch could overwatch on 2+, a Ravenwing Apothecary with the drop invuns to 5++ thing and a bunch of servitors.
For secondaries I took Priority Targets, Purge the Vermin and Ancient Machineries, while my opponent took WWSWF, Priority Targets and Stubborn Defiance.
The Dark Angles took the first turn and played fairly cagily, moving up his screening servitors while putting the attack bikes and talonmasters into position to shoot. I did under-estimate how much shooting his list had and lost a squad of immortals straight off the bat. Id deployed them fairly aggressively in the hopes that if I went first, I'd lock down some good firing lanes right across the board. Those Talonmaster putting out 18 shots each in devastator doctrine is pretty savage, especially when you havent had a chance to put any invuns up. The rest of his shooting cleared a couple scarab bases and there wasn't any declarable charges so that was pretty much it turn 1.
In my turn one, I had the canobsec detachment push forward hard to try and peg the dark angles back, with one scarab squad landing on an objective to set up ancient machineries. My opponent hadnt given me too much to shoot at, so between the SK and my two remaining immortal squads, I was able to kill one of the servitor units and knock a couple models off the big 10 man termy castle which had been deployed very aggressively. My charge phase was quite big though. I was able to tag the big termy unit with 1 of the wraith squads while the second wraith squad made a 7" charge against a servitor squad, wiped them and used the consolidate to clutch touch a back objective. My other scarab unit rolled an 11" charge against a 4man servitor unit, killed them off, then between the pile ins and consolidations was able to screen out a huge part of the board and tag the central objective. The 1st wraith squad pulled down another terminator and lost two of their number in return.
In the Dark Angles 2nd turn my opponent actually fell back with the big termy squad to try and free up some space and shoot the remaining 2 wraiths off the board, which in hindsight was a big mistake as I rolled super hot on the wariths 4++ and only took 2 damage from a talon master and an attack bike unit. Ezekiel slammed the scarab unit trying to perform ancient machineries with a power that took away their obsec and made them fail their action while the rest of my opponents shooting removed 5 more scarab bases. An attack bike squad then charged the ancient machinery scarabs and fell back using a strat to pull them just out of engagement range before i could punch back so that they could still contest the objective. The 5 man termy squad then made a short charge against the central scarab unit, killing a base which allowed me to pull the last 3 bases out of engagement range while remaining on the central objective. The second Wraith unit got charged by a 2 man command squad and ended up in a protracted combat with them on a backfield objective to contest it. The wraiths would eventually come out on top.
My second turn was the biggest swing in the game i think. I was able to veil a unit of immortals close to my opponents Priority Target objective, which also happened to be held by his stubborn defiance command squad, killing one of the models and wounding the other in the shooting phase. I was also able to wipe the attack bike squad that had pushed up onto the objective between my other immortal squad and the SK. The wraiths also moved through the big termy brick to tag both Ezekiel and Azreal, dropping Ezekiel to a single wound in the fight phase, with the last wraith surviving with 1 wound left in return. The main swing was the Lychgaurd making their charge onto the central objective and stripping the 5 man termy unit to just 1 model. The veild immortals did however fail their charge which I think would have practically been game then and there as I would have had obsec on 4/5 objectives.
From that point forward I was able to kind of pull the Dark angles apart. They had to use their attack bikes to try and contest objectives as i was able to pretty effectively kite the big termy unit (which actually ended the game with 8 models left thanks to the apothecary's healing ability!), drip feeding my remaining scarabs, and, eventually, immortals into them. A Talonmaster span round to help deal with the vield immortals only to end up reanimating them onto the priority target objective, while the lychgaurd held down the centre objective for the rest of the game! One final highlight was actually being able to catch a talonmaster with my chronomancer and lock him in combat.
Overall, I think my opponents game plan was solid if not executed poorly, as I was able to keep them to a 5 on primary over the last 2 turns. That said, they still scored a 15 on WWSWF (the last remaining termy from the 5 man squad fell back and was able to last out the game via some clutch 4++ saves) . Had the Dark Angles been able to screen out their backfield more effectively, they would have easily got 15 for both Priority Targets and Stubborn Defiance; veil was basically my only way of reaching said objective. Overall the game finished 86 to 73 in favour of the Necrons, so still pretty close, even though it certainly felt like I was in control from the end of the 2nd turn - my opponent was able to keep me to a 6 on Ancient Machineries and 10 for Purge while I maxed out both Primary and Priority Targets.
In terms of how my units performed, the wraiths have been the standout picks over my last two games. They're outrageously fast with the 6" pregame move and super effective at locking things in combat early enough into the game to make them a lot more manageable in the later stages. Lychgaurd remain a fantastic hammer unit and IMO should be close to an auto include in most lists. I don't really miss protocols, obsec scarabs more than make up for the loss of utility. Finally, rapid fire from stationary only really came up a couple of times but was certainly effective at catching the faster aspects of the dark angles nonetheless. I'm gonna keep it for my next couple of games to test it out more, but honestly between the base 5" move and rapid fire at 16.5" you really don't use it that much; in which case I think i'll switch it up to Mephrit for the extra AP.
Anyways, well done to anyone thats actually read this far! I've got a game against orks tomorrow and we're 1 for 1 at the moment, both games have been really close. If you guys have enjoyed reading this then let me know, I'm happy to write up the next game too.
Thanks a bunch
Peace!
Nice report!
Just want to point out that the Chrono buff is <dynasty> in case it comes up in future games, though you only mentioned not being able to put up the buff and immortals dying without necessarily linking those things.
How did you feel about the performance of TSK in this game? You have 790 points that he is buffing in this list. Seems like it might be enough, but let me know your impressions.
TheNEWnew wrote: Hey guys, I just finished playing a game against the new Dark Angles and thought I'd tell you about it.
Spoiler:
We played Priority Targets. My list was a Warden (with veil) + 30 Immortals in a custom dynasty with 3" extra range and rapid fire at full range from stationary, with the SK and an obsec/expansionist Outrider with 17 scarab bases, 2x4 wraiths, 10 lychguard, a chrono and a lord with the voltaic staff.
My opponent took 20 odd terminators in one brick of 10, one squad of 5 and a couple command squads, 9 attack bikes, Ezekiel, Azrael, 2 Talonmasters one of witch could overwatch on 2+, a Ravenwing Apothecary with the drop invuns to 5++ thing and a bunch of servitors.
For secondaries I took Priority Targets, Purge the Vermin and Ancient Machineries, while my opponent took WWSWF, Priority Targets and Stubborn Defiance.
The Dark Angles took the first turn and played fairly cagily, moving up his screening servitors while putting the attack bikes and talonmasters into position to shoot. I did under-estimate how much shooting his list had and lost a squad of immortals straight off the bat. Id deployed them fairly aggressively in the hopes that if I went first, I'd lock down some good firing lanes right across the board. Those Talonmaster putting out 18 shots each in devastator doctrine is pretty savage, especially when you havent had a chance to put any invuns up. The rest of his shooting cleared a couple scarab bases and there wasn't any declarable charges so that was pretty much it turn 1.
In my turn one, I had the canobsec detachment push forward hard to try and peg the dark angles back, with one scarab squad landing on an objective to set up ancient machineries. My opponent hadnt given me too much to shoot at, so between the SK and my two remaining immortal squads, I was able to kill one of the servitor units and knock a couple models off the big 10 man termy castle which had been deployed very aggressively. My charge phase was quite big though. I was able to tag the big termy unit with 1 of the wraith squads while the second wraith squad made a 7" charge against a servitor squad, wiped them and used the consolidate to clutch touch a back objective. My other scarab unit rolled an 11" charge against a 4man servitor unit, killed them off, then between the pile ins and consolidations was able to screen out a huge part of the board and tag the central objective. The 1st wraith squad pulled down another terminator and lost two of their number in return.
In the Dark Angles 2nd turn my opponent actually fell back with the big termy squad to try and free up some space and shoot the remaining 2 wraiths off the board, which in hindsight was a big mistake as I rolled super hot on the wariths 4++ and only took 2 damage from a talon master and an attack bike unit. Ezekiel slammed the scarab unit trying to perform ancient machineries with a power that took away their obsec and made them fail their action while the rest of my opponents shooting removed 5 more scarab bases. An attack bike squad then charged the ancient machinery scarabs and fell back using a strat to pull them just out of engagement range before i could punch back so that they could still contest the objective. The 5 man termy squad then made a short charge against the central scarab unit, killing a base which allowed me to pull the last 3 bases out of engagement range while remaining on the central objective. The second Wraith unit got charged by a 2 man command squad and ended up in a protracted combat with them on a backfield objective to contest it. The wraiths would eventually come out on top.
My second turn was the biggest swing in the game i think. I was able to veil a unit of immortals close to my opponents Priority Target objective, which also happened to be held by his stubborn defiance command squad, killing one of the models and wounding the other in the shooting phase. I was also able to wipe the attack bike squad that had pushed up onto the objective between my other immortal squad and the SK. The wraiths also moved through the big termy brick to tag both Ezekiel and Azreal, dropping Ezekiel to a single wound in the fight phase, with the last wraith surviving with 1 wound left in return. The main swing was the Lychgaurd making their charge onto the central objective and stripping the 5 man termy unit to just 1 model. The veild immortals did however fail their charge which I think would have practically been game then and there as I would have had obsec on 4/5 objectives.
From that point forward I was able to kind of pull the Dark angles apart. They had to use their attack bikes to try and contest objectives as i was able to pretty effectively kite the big termy unit (which actually ended the game with 8 models left thanks to the apothecary's healing ability!), drip feeding my remaining scarabs, and, eventually, immortals into them. A Talonmaster span round to help deal with the vield immortals only to end up reanimating them onto the priority target objective, while the lychgaurd held down the centre objective for the rest of the game! One final highlight was actually being able to catch a talonmaster with my chronomancer and lock him in combat.
Overall, I think my opponents game plan was solid if not executed poorly, as I was able to keep them to a 5 on primary over the last 2 turns. That said, they still scored a 15 on WWSWF (the last remaining termy from the 5 man squad fell back and was able to last out the game via some clutch 4++ saves) . Had the Dark Angles been able to screen out their backfield more effectively, they would have easily got 15 for both Priority Targets and Stubborn Defiance; veil was basically my only way of reaching said objective. Overall the game finished 86 to 73 in favour of the Necrons, so still pretty close, even though it certainly felt like I was in control from the end of the 2nd turn - my opponent was able to keep me to a 6 on Ancient Machineries and 10 for Purge while I maxed out both Primary and Priority Targets.
In terms of how my units performed, the wraiths have been the standout picks over my last two games. They're outrageously fast with the 6" pregame move and super effective at locking things in combat early enough into the game to make them a lot more manageable in the later stages. Lychgaurd remain a fantastic hammer unit and IMO should be close to an auto include in most lists. I don't really miss protocols, obsec scarabs more than make up for the loss of utility. Finally, rapid fire from stationary only really came up a couple of times but was certainly effective at catching the faster aspects of the dark angles nonetheless. I'm gonna keep it for my next couple of games to test it out more, but honestly between the base 5" move and rapid fire at 16.5" you really don't use it that much; in which case I think i'll switch it up to Mephrit for the extra AP.
Anyways, well done to anyone thats actually read this far! I've got a game against orks tomorrow and we're 1 for 1 at the moment, both games have been really close. If you guys have enjoyed reading this then let me know, I'm happy to write up the next game too.
Thanks a bunch
Peace!
Nice report!
Just want to point out that the Chrono buff is <dynasty> in case it comes up in future games, though you only mentioned not being able to put up the buff and immortals dying without necessarily linking those things.
How did you feel about the performance of TSK in this game? You have 790 points that he is buffing in this list. Seems like it might be enough, but let me know your impressions.
Cheers dude!
Yeah sorry, the chrono buff is primarily for the scarabs. I dont have a 5++ for the immortals in this list, but even if had managed to put an invun up on them I dont think it would have made much difference that first turn!
It was a tough game for TSK, I had to play pretty cagey with him between all the multi meltas on the attack bikes and the terminator bricks getting to re-roll wounds against him, not to mention that psychic power to turnoff an aura. Honestly, for the best part of the game he was only buffing one immortal squad - it certainly wasnt his best match up.
Tbh I was fine with that though. The lord is there to babysit the lychguard when they need to move out of the SKs auras to Crump something, while veiling an immortal squad was essential in winning the match. On top of that, as a late game piece, I think a healthy SK is second to none anyway. The menhirs were still fairly consistently dropping 6 damage a turn on top of the other chip he was doing which added up over time.
In other games where I can castle up a little more I think I'll definitely get more out of him, I just really didn't fancy having a lot of my units in the same place against that dark angels list lol
What are the basic building blocks of the Necrons? It seems like the codex seems very versatile.
In particular is the Relentlessly Expansionist custom trait any good? It seems very good but I do not know how much you give up. Also, I am not sure if Necrons benefit from beeing close to the opponent.
Niiai wrote: What are the basic building blocks of the Necrons? It seems like the codex seems very versatile.
In particular is the Relentlessly Expansionist custom trait any good? It seems very good but I do not know how much you give up. Also, I am not sure if Necrons benefit from beeing close to the opponent.
Building blocks are Warriors which should be fielded in larger units.
Immortals are more elite and are not a must have.
An army needs to be well-rounded to battle the enemy at all threat ranges.
Here cc oriented units and units giving long distance support come into play as are fast moving or deep-striking units.
Niiai wrote: What are the basic building blocks of the Necrons? It seems like the codex seems very versatile.
In particular is the Relentlessly Expansionist custom trait any good? It seems very good but I do not know how much you give up. Also, I am not sure if Necrons benefit from beeing close to the opponent.
Necrons have multiple interesting and viable playstyles available to them. I'd say the only indispensable part is the Chronomancer. A big block of 20 warriors goes in most builds, but the faction can easily play without troops by taking a bunch of scarab swarms+chronomancers for the best screening in the game and back that up with some real elite killers like C'tan. Mephrit Immortals are also pretty core to that playstyle, but even Mephrit will likely bring 1 big block of 20 warriors.
Relentlessly Expansionist is excellent. Scarabs, warriors, and melee options all want to get up the table as quickly as possible to dominate the objectives. People often pair that trait with Eternal Conquerors to give everything pushing onto the objectives objective secured. The main competitors to that dynasty are Novokh for the short range punching power builds and Mephrit for the longer range shooting builds. I've seen some Warrior/scarab spam builds that Nephrek looks good for, but I haven't seen that put on the table, and it does look a little ridiculous to build.
All very sound advice! The guys at the Art of War 40k often play with a novokh warrior/silent king list on youtube. Definitely worth checking them out if you want to get an idea of how that certain build/play style works
I have but not always run Orikan the Diviner, overlord, lord, cryptic, forty warriors, twenty gauss immortals, ten tesla carbine immortals, ten deathmarks, scarabs, six wraiths, five destoyers, three heavy destroyers, and a monolith. People at the local gaming store are happy I put up a fight and take out three of the biggest models on the field with mass ap-1 gauss. Any tips to make my army stronger? Thank you.
Took Nihilakh Necrons to a local six-round, 2000 point tourney with 20 players. I only started Necrons with Indomitus and I have a fairly limited collection. I took Necrons to the tourney as a break from Dark Angels as their Codex was not released when we had to submit our lists. We used GT20 missions.
I took: Overlord, Warden, Chronomancer, Reaper Warriors x 15, Reaper Warriors x 15, Flayer Warriors x 10, Immortals x 5, Nightbringer, Skorpekh Destroyers x 6, Scarabs x 6, Scarabs x 6, Triarch Stalker, Canoptek Doomstalker.
Game 1 vs Grey Knights. He had a big Paladin Bomb, the Dread Character and supporting squads. He had first turn and his Paladins gunned down the Triarch Stalker. My Warden and a Reaper squad used Veil to get into his backfield and gun down a Grey Knight squad. The Nightbringer and Skorpekhs chewed through his Dreadnought character and another squad. My Scarabs did a good job of eating Smites and in Turn 2 the Nightbringer took down the Paladins after they had been softened up by his Ctan powers and Reaper fire. Necron victory.
Game 2 vs Alpha Legion. This was wild, swirling game. He had a Lord on a Bike that could target characters that took down my Warden on Turn 1, throwing my plan into disarray. The Skorpechs took two squads of CSM down before dying. Reaper Warriors pulped a 30 strong Cultist squad down to 8 models who were then satisfying eaten by Scarabs! The Nightbringer killed two vehicles, a squad of CSM, a Chaos lord and Obliterators, but he couldn't be everywhere at once. The Doomstalker died to deep striking Terminators but somehow the Triarch Stalker lived long enough to kill the Termies with Heat Ray and Claws. Who knew? The remnants of two battered armies glowered at each other after five turns with the Alpha Legion winning 52 to 51. One of the most fun tourney games I can recall!
Game 3 vs Orks. He had a variety of Truks and Speeders plus some infiltrators. I pushed hard with Scarabs and Destroyers but I lacked enough mid-strength AT. A hard-fought loss to the Orks - I had enough board control through the middle turns to have an OK score. The Nightbringer died to Smite, shooting and melee without really doing enough damage in return.
Game 4 vs Grey Knights. No Paladin bomb but plenty of small squads and Dreadnoughts. He came at me with Interceptors, a Land Raider Redeemer and two Dreads. Turn 1 was rough, with my Doomstalker falling along with a number of warriors. I took a chance with a Veil deep strike into his DZ that hurt him but cost me those Warriors and the Warden. Turn 2 things turned around as the Nightbringer and Destroyers went to work. A Necron victory, but at a cost!
Game 5 vs Ultramarines. This looked to be a chance to showcase the Nightbringer against a big Bladeguard Squad...Well, the Nightbringer whiffed on most of his C'Tan powers and was dead by the end of turn 2 (he had Tigurius) after only killing three Bladeguard over those two turns (two of whom were brought back). He killed precisely one in melee..I took down several Intercessor squads, but otherwise this was a one-sided loss. My tactics were sub-par, and my Skorpechs were not well coordinated with my Nightbringer.
Game 6 vs Tau. He had two Riptides and plenty of Drones but only three squads of Firewarriors. I threw a Veil-bomb in his face to kill his Firewarriors while the Destroyers, Nightbringer and Chronomancer rolled up one flank. This cost me the Warriors and Warden, but he was boxed into a corner (as Tau often is these days) and essentially surrendered the board to me. The Nightbringer was primarily a psychological weapon in this game. A one-sided victory for the Necrons.
Summary. A fun time with many lessons learned (3:3 still learning the army). The Scarabs were the stars of the list, grabbing objectives and establishing board control. I need some Lokhust Destroyers for mid-strength/longer-range shooting to deal with vehicles etc. The Nightbringer was a monster but also somewhat one-dimensional. The Skorpech Destroyers can hit hard, but they have huge bases and are awkward to manouevre. Might trade them for some shooty ones or perhaps Wraiths. From a tourney matched-play perspective the new FAQ from a little while back did shake things up with the Secondaries. Bring it Down is now quite hard to achieve, and the changes to Abhor the Witch also meant that there were more Pskers out there and while the two Grey Knight lists did give up VPs, it was much more of a grind.
I'll stick with Dark Angels as my main list, but I'll flesh out the Necrons.
Thanks for the insights.
Playing Necrons with only the new and shiny Indomitus contents is a bit tough.
But as said, Wraiths might do a better job and in the future a SK could help a lot.
Game 5 vs Ultramarines. This looked to be a chance to showcase the Nightbringer against a big Bladeguard Squad...Well, the Nightbringer whiffed on most of his C'Tan powers and was dead by the end of turn 2 (he had Tigurius) after only killing three Bladeguard over those two turns (two of whom were brought back). He killed precisely one in melee..I took down several Intercessor squads, but otherwise this was a one-sided loss. My tactics were sub-par, and my Skorpechs were not well coordinated with my Nightbringer.
Yeah that matchup takes some getting used to. You'd think the nightbringer would be great vs bladeguard but he's actually pretty terrible against them. They can transhuman forcing you to wound on 4s and then d6 damage isn't great against 3 wound models as you will frequently fail to kill in 1 wound and marines don't have a problem killing C'tan as they do good damage in all phases. You'd be better off throwing the destroyers at them and have the C'tan hunt the characters.
I've spent the better part of a week including Skorpek Destroyers and Lord in lists, trying to get them to deliver, but am really struggling.
Any suggestions to up their competitive potential? So far, just replacing their points with more Immortals, has done drastically more for me, especially as buffs and strats make said Immortals surprisingly punchy, while also obviously being a major shooting threat.
Quick question, are wraiths slowed by difficult ground? I know they can move through terrain and models similar to units with the fly keyword but how does wraithform work when you move through area terrain with the difficult ground keyword?
Historically wraiths would ignore it but I'm uncertain now in 9th looking at the wording.
Niiai wrote: I really love that the old Necron Ophydian Destroyer is very similar looking to the old necron wraights. (Before they become constructs.)
Are the Ophydians playable?
They occupy this weird space in the codex, they cost the same as wraiths and Skorphtek destroyers. We don't have any reliable methods to make the charge out of deepstrike reliable so if that 9" fails you have to spend a cp and if it fails again the unit is just dead cause it has paper armour, the odds of rolling a 9 with 2 dice even with a re-roll is ~47%.
Their damage output is very high probably the highest non-ctan in the codex. However they are also the easiest model in the codex to kill lacking any defense whatsoever.
For the same price you'd get the same number of destroyers who deal only slightly less damage in CC but have a better save, toughness and an amazing strat to keep them alive.
Similarly for the same price you could have wraiths which are faster and more durable(3+/4++,T5).
If your army wants a 105pt, suicidal, have to make my charge unit, then they aren't bad and if your opponent doesn't screen right they could assault and quickly kill back field fire support. But they will die immediately after.
With how lethal 9th edition is and how important it is to be able to hold a point(and not just kill a unit) I feel they are in a bad place currently. They could use a point drop so they look better to their counterparts in the same codex or they could use someway of making the deepstrike charge more reliable(Tyranid adrenal glands style)
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I've spent the better part of a week including Skorpek Destroyers and Lord in lists, trying to get them to deliver, but am really struggling.
Any suggestions to up their competitive potential? So far, just replacing their points with more Immortals, has done drastically more for me, especially as buffs and strats make said Immortals surprisingly punchy, while also obviously being a major shooting threat.
Skorpekh are a little deceptive in how they play. I think my preference is to treat them as a counterclaims unit that then sucks around after that with their durability. Mostly, they don't want to post up as a front line because the plasmacyte is so much more effective on a 5-6 model unit. That makes it so you want to keep them out of harm until you can get the plasmacyte charge off. The speed 8 makes it easier to place them in a counter charge position without existing them. Once you get your charge off, they are good at staying out in the open and running down smaller enemy units.
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Niiai wrote: I really love that the old Necron Ophydian Destroyer is very similar looking to the old necron wraights. (Before they become constructs.)
Are the Ophydians playable?
They work in Novokh decently well. I like a squad of 3 that just makes the enemy play more bricked up by their existence. If the opponent places a unit out of mutual support range, just 3 Ophydians do a good job of chopping up a small unit if you don't flub the 8+ charge roll with a reroll.
Thanks LiMunPai, that's a great suggestion. I think I misplayed them, wanting them to either be Terminator like for their cost (which they just aren't), or have them be Marine-killers which they're profiled for, but leaves them in the weeds to be shot-down before they do so.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I've spent the better part of a week including Skorpek Destroyers and Lord in lists, trying to get them to deliver, but am really struggling.
Any suggestions to up their competitive potential? So far, just replacing their points with more Immortals, has done drastically more for me, especially as buffs and strats make said Immortals surprisingly punchy, while also obviously being a major shooting threat.
Skorpekh are a little deceptive in how they play. I think my preference is to treat them as a counterclaims unit that then sucks around after that with their durability. Mostly, they don't want to post up as a front line because the plasmacyte is so much more effective on a 5-6 model unit. That makes it so you want to keep them out of harm until you can get the plasmacyte charge off. The speed 8 makes it easier to place them in a counter charge position without existing them. Once you get your charge off, they are good at staying out in the open and running down smaller enemy units.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Niiai wrote: I really love that the old Necron Ophydian Destroyer is very similar looking to the old necron wraights. (Before they become constructs.)
Are the Ophydians playable?
They work in Novokh decently well. I like a squad of 3 that just makes the enemy play more bricked up by their existence. If the opponent places a unit out of mutual support range, just 3 Ophydians do a good job of chopping up a small unit if you don't flub the 8+ charge roll with a reroll.
Yeah ophydians are interesting. I think in novokh especially their place and role is also contested by flayed ones. Ophydians are debatably more punchy, but flayed ones are 40pts cheaper, so swings and roundabouts I guess. I have just noticed that ophydians get the infantry keyword so you can use them for scramblers...
I agree with Limun too in that a solo squad of 6 skorpekhs are best as a counter Punch unit. Obviously they're a great choice for a 5++ /re-roll charges from the chrono if you want that increased durability and charge reliability, but I think the chronos 5++ is great particularly everywhere in the codex; you can often find yourself hard pressed to put the buff on the skorpekhs unless you've specifically built for it. People often take sword and shield lychguard over them as they perform a similar role while having a native 4++. Thanks to the core keyword lychguard generally synergies with the rest of the codex better too imo
That said, I've seen a couple of succesful lists that go wide on skorpekhs, while I haven't seen that from the lychguard yet. Take what you will from that, but I am by no means saying that lychguard couldn't pull off the same thing!
I found it odd that Ophydians do not have flying or some other way to transport. They seem very floatable. The old wraights could phase out, at least in the Soulstorm game (DOW.)
You may know me from such Faction threads as Dark Angels and Tyranids, but last thursday I discovered that Element Games still has a load of Indomitus boxes, so I went ahead and bought one. I also have the necron half of a box from a friend coming soon (the marines will be seconded to my Dark Angels, at least everything except the assault intercessors whom I am Swapping with a friend}.
Now, I may mostly play narrative/crusade games but i do have a few questions...
!1: Should I run the skorpech destroyers as 1 unit of 6 or 2 of 3? Im not sure if i really like them all that much,
2: Warriors... I'm thinking of 1 unit of 20 with reapers coming out of a night scythe and 1 unit of 20 with gauss rifles to slowly advance up the board. Does this sound ok? or am i better off mixing 10/10 in units (much like how i run 15/15 fleshborer/devourer gaunts?}
3: is there a good part of this forum to post ongoing stories of my crusade (which would be heavily fictionilzed without derailing threads designed for more competitive players? Or should I ask mods to possibly set up a specific narrative games segment?
4. COMPLETELY lost with the options for crypteks (as a nid player i am very used to not having options at all) any advice on Plasmancers, or how to convert the second one into another type?
Sorry if this is not exactly "tactics" focussed, but i figured it would be the best place to ask.
!1: Should I run the skorpech destroyers as 1 unit of 6 or 2 of 3? Im not sure if i really like them all that much,
This depends on your meta, so the best thing about skorpehk destroyers is they have a 1 cp strat to make them -1 to wound which makes them super durable vs anything not kitted out to fight t5. So you want to have a larger squad to make the most out of that strat, however depending on how prevalent inceptors are in your meta you may want to stick to only 5 so they don't give max shots.
2: Warriors... I'm thinking of 1 unit of 20 with reapers coming out of a night scythe and 1 unit of 20 with gauss rifles to slowly advance up the board. Does this sound ok? or am i better off mixing 10/10 in units (much like how i run 15/15 fleshborer/devourer gaunts?}
Your going to want all reapers if possible, reapers are always the better option. Reaper warriors can threaten any target, the flayers are just mediocre(you generally want to be in rapid fire range for them anyways and that's the reapers range). If your looking for a unit to hold a back field objective and have some range, just run a min squad of Immortals with gauss.
4. COMPLETELY lost with the options for crypteks (as a nid player i am very used to not having options at all) any advice on Plasmancers, or how to convert the second one into another type?
Most of the options on crypteks aren't needed and you'll know you need an option based on the list you play(for instance a canoptek focused list or one with doomstalkers will want the control node on the technomancer and maybe the failsafe overcharger)
Generally the arkana on the Crypteks are just niche bonuses, none of them are required and the most interesting ones require you do build your list with them in mind. I'd suggest just skipping the arkana until you're more familiar with the rest of the army. I would suggest converting the Plasmancer into a Chronomancer, the plasmancer is just a walking smite(which is alright but..) while the chronomancer provides much need invulns to units such are Skorpekhs, scarabs and warriors. Plus the re-roll able charge is nice on skorpekhs.
Niiai wrote: I found it odd that Ophydians do not have flying or some other way to transport. They seem very floatable. The old wraights could phase out, at least in the Soulstorm game (DOW.)
No its not odd.
They can ''deep strike'' in the Necron sense which makes them quite reliable to reach the enemy quickly.
Vineheart01 wrote: Nope its probably the ONLY effect that is just dynasty locked
Yeah it's part of the reason you see one in so many lists tbh. You cant put the buff on units from a different dynasty or dynastic agents (so if you wanted a 5++ on praetorians you'd have to take orikan) but otherwise the chronos buff is unrestricted
i want to like Orikan but he feels overpriced.
+30pts to a regular Chrono w/o the Lance shot (or any shooting for that matter) and decent but not great melee, chrono buff that can work on agents, and...nothing else really.
He really feels like he needs another chrono-type ability slapped on to me.
IHateNids wrote: Please do post a report on how the Seraptek plays in this edition, I'd really love to dust mine off.
I have only managed to use it in like 3 games before it lost a fight with gravity and I havent had the time to rebuild it yet....
Yep, we're filming Saturday, so, i'll post it up on the batrep page in a week or two after its been processed etc.
Haven't actually used it since the nerf from the forgeworld books, so we'll see how it goes.
Seraptek Heavy Construct [33 PL, 650pts]
. Two Singularity Generators
++ Total: [100 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++
Gauss Reapers go on the warriors over flayers every time. The extra strength, range on the AP in Mephrit, and assault are worth it.
The Heavy Destroyers seem pretty bad here unless you know the enemy list is filled with heavy armor because the 650 point Seraptek is covering the heavy damage role pretty thoroughly.
The Technomancer wants the Voltaic Staff for some solid shooting.
The Overlord should almost certainly be the Mephrit warlord trait CCB with void reaper, which is a melee killing machine.
I'm a big fan of the Mephrit royal Warden with the Conduit of Stars in your last HQ slot if you use the Cryptek rule to double up on Crypteks in one slot.
How many relics do you take? How many CP are they each worth? If you know you’re taking the Veil first, is 1 CP worth it for the Voltaic Staff? 2 more CP for a third?
In my 2k list I think I want the Solar Staff for Overwatch denial to protect the charging Lychguard. Don’t know that I want to spend on that at 1k with no dedicated melee units. Still don’t think the Orb of Eternity feels worth it.
AduroT wrote: How many relics do you take? How many CP are they each worth? If you know you’re taking the Veil first, is 1 CP worth it for the Voltaic Staff? 2 more CP for a third?
In my 2k list I think I want the Solar Staff for Overwatch denial to protect the charging Lychguard. Don’t know that I want to spend on that at 1k with no dedicated melee units. Still don’t think the Orb of Eternity feels worth it.
A second relic is ok for 1CP, but i wouldnt invest 2 more CP for a third one. Necrons dont have a lot of good relics. Veil of darkness and voltaic staff are probably the best.
AduroT wrote: How many relics do you take? How many CP are they each worth? If you know you’re taking the Veil first, is 1 CP worth it for the Voltaic Staff? 2 more CP for a third?
In my 2k list I think I want the Solar Staff for Overwatch denial to protect the charging Lychguard. Don’t know that I want to spend on that at 1k with no dedicated melee units. Still don’t think the Orb of Eternity feels worth it.
A second relic is ok for 1CP, but i wouldnt invest 2 more CP for a third one. Necrons dont have a lot of good relics. Veil of darkness and voltaic staff are probably the best.
Completely agree. I think veil is the only auto include though tbh. Proper movement wins you so many games, and I think as far as movement shenanigans goes then the veil is up there with the best of the best. Being able to pull a unit out of CC and teleport them to the opposite side of the board to deploy scramblers for example can really ruin your opponents day.
The voltaic staff is often worth the extra CP if you've got a bare bones lord or technomancer as it's a pretty substantial damage boost for them, or even a CCB if you're not looking to use it as a melee character. Otherwise the CP is best saved for the in game strats. You'll get far more mileage out of 1CP if it gives your skorpekhs -1 to wound over a 3rd mediocre relic.
) to 5 wounds. He rolled ridiculous good. He needed 6es to hit and yeah, hit like 16 times.... both of them...
