Choppa arm looks off because it is angled forwards, shortening it. And it seems to be a bit weedy because it isn't a big choppa, it looks like a powwa choppa with the cables on the blade head.
I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
I’d love it if they made data sheets in 11th for Warlords and Warbosses so there was like a Lieutenant equivalent character for Orks. This kit would then be a good way of doing that
No wolves on Fenris wrote: I’d love it if they made data sheets in 11th for Warlords and Warbosses so there was like a Lieutenant equivalent character for Orks. This kit would then be a good way of doing that
That’s kind of what the old Waargh banner nob used to be, so they could bring that back?
ZergSmasher wrote: I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
Not necessarily? There's also been talk about an Armageddon campaign set (like 500 Worlds, Into the Maelstrom, Eye of Terror), so it is still possible that this model ties into that.
Given that the WarCom article says to check back on Monday if you're an Ork fan, we'll find out more then - but I strongly doubt this is a model tied into the launch of 11th.
Note that I'm not saying that it is impossible for Orks to be in the 11th box, just that I think this is more likely to tie into a campaign book. But, as noted, we'll find out more come Monday.
Solo hero drops are also a thing GW does a lot now. They can even swap them out fairly fast too. Take the Wight King on Horse - that model wasn't that old and yet got replaced with a new version.
Or the new Tyranid Warrior Prime - a second mono pose mono build option coming onto the market instead of a single multipart kit.
ZergSmasher wrote: I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
No, I'm sure the Space Marines are the baddies like usual.
ZergSmasher wrote: I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
No, I'm sure the Space Marines are the baddies like usual.
ZergSmasher wrote: I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
Why would Orks be showed off already if that was the case? GW had radio silence on the Tyranids until they showed off Leviathan. Same with the Necrons and Indomitus.
ZergSmasher wrote: I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
Why would Orks be showed off already if that was the case? GW had radio silence on the Tyranids until they showed off Leviathan. Same with the Necrons and Indomitus.
Didn't Valrak said something the box being around the £200 mark?
ZergSmasher wrote: I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
Why would Orks be showed off already if that was the case? GW had radio silence on the Tyranids until they showed off Leviathan. Same with the Necrons and Indomitus.
Didn't Valrak said something the box being around the £200 mark?
It was his speculation but it's a sensible guess imo.
ZergSmasher wrote: I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
Why would Orks be showed off already if that was the case? GW had radio silence on the Tyranids until they showed off Leviathan. Same with the Necrons and Indomitus.
Didn't Valrak said something the box being around the £200 mark?
It was his speculation but it's a sensible guess imo.
He's probably right, but unfortunately Im not sure if I will go there. GW is getting wild with some of the prices again, and with no signs of stopping. £100 was already a psychological barrier and we are talking double that.
ZergSmasher wrote: I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
Why would Orks be showed off already if that was the case? GW had radio silence on the Tyranids until they showed off Leviathan. Same with the Necrons and Indomitus.
Didn't Valrak said something the box being around the £200 mark?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Somebody needs to paint him wearing Jack Burton's shirt from Big Trouble in Little China.
It's like a tell my ex-Mek; I never Waaagh! faster than I can see...
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall warboss grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the teeth is in the mail."
Da Boss wrote: I like that model, especially the grot as everyone said. But I do wonder how big it is!
The embiggened Warboss of 3e was a big deal when he came along, I wonder how big they will get now?
Looks like a 50mm base, which the BL ork character also comes on, so about the same size as him I would think.
The base size inflation is real. The 30k Primarchs are still on 40mms for their gameplay bases.
I am mostly huffing and puffing because all these massive bases take so much space in my display cases!
True, base sizes are growing, esp for named characters. My ork base sizes are all over the place though since I started back in 4th ed. Boyz are on 25s (even the new ones so they match) while nobz got moved over to 32s to stand out. meganobz and warbosses and other hqs like big meks and wyrdboyz are on 40s, and a couple newer ones on the bigger bases they came on. And buggies, as vehicles, I dont put on bases, but the trike is a bike so it does get one.
Any guesses as to what may be revealed monday? Rumors have boyz, grots, nob banner, bosses, wyrdboy, turret and trakk as starter which means etb, with possible multipart kits later. I could see grots staying an ETB kit like termagants and necron warriors, while boyz could see another crack at a new kit.
If the kill team rumors for meganobz is true, they probably wont show up either (possibly they will change to a 5 nob box with some grot riggers like how the stealth team changed.
Ork kits have held up well, but some could use replacement/expansion of options. Storm boyz, lootas/burnas, and nobz could all use updates. Maybe bikers too. And a couple older kits are just fine, but could have a sprue or two added to make cool new options, like the battlewagon and stompa.
ZergSmasher wrote: I think that pretty much confirms that Orks are going to be the baddies of 11th's launch box, if we hadn't had that confirmed already (did Valrak already say it in a rumor video or something?).
Why would Orks be showed off already if that was the case? GW had radio silence on the Tyranids until they showed off Leviathan. Same with the Necrons and Indomitus.
Thats not completely true as necrons got a end of 8th campaign model in the form of Illuminor Szeras shortly before Indomitus and since Valrak is both talking about a end of edition campaign book with Orks and them in the starter I'd say this Warboss and whatever they show on Monday is for that book with more coming later for the 11th starter.
Also they probably didn't want to show this model yet but it was leaked
The new Warboss is a bit of a mixed bag. The Grot is awesome, of course, and the Goff version with the power klaw looks pretty good. I think all of his arms are definitely on the weedy side, which may be due to him having a massive torso. The previous plastic Warboss was all muscular arms and legs, without much in between. They've now gone for a more slab-like appearance. I hope the new Ork range gets some consistency, as the current range is a mixture of various sculptors and aesthetics, and covers the period from when the models were made from putty masters to full digital sculpts (with some dodgy early digital sculpts along the way). The low point was the krew models for the Ork buggies, which were truly ugly - I guess it's too much to hope that they will get re-done.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Choppa arm looks off because it is angled forwards, shortening it. And it seems to be a bit weedy because it isn't a big choppa, it looks like a powwa choppa with the cables on the blade head.
The choppa (and helmeted head option) both look like throwbacks to the 2nd ed monopose Goff Ork - it's weedy on purpose and I like it. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a new datasheet (especially with the Grot assistant) and loses the big choppa for a new powwa choppa that has even more attacks (but probably still take the claw).
So, whilst this of course aligns with Valrak’s rumours about Orks being in the 11th Ed Big Box? This could be something coming sooner.
The packaging in the original social media post is a straight forward character box. And it has various options. Bonce, Banner, Shoota, Squig or No Squig, CCW, Belt,
That’s…that’s way more options than we typically see on Big Box Models. And yes we see models parted out, feels very early for that packaging to be the one “leaked”
I’m wondering if this is for another, as yet unheralded book in the 10th Ed End of Edition range. Which may or may not be coming with other releases. And it’s those releases we might see some of Monday.
Something about that Warboss just looks off to me. Not sure what it is. Hopefully it's just the photographers picking the worst possible angle again as they do so often.
Like most everyone else I like the Gretchin, albeit not his jaw. If they wanted to give him boss grot vibes they should have given him an iron gob instead. It's easy to fix, though, so no big deal.
Geifer wrote: Something about that Warboss just looks off to me. Not sure what it is. Hopefully it's just the photographers picking the worst possible angle again as they do so often.
Like most everyone else I like the Gretchin, albeit not his jaw. If they wanted to give him boss grot vibes they should have given him an iron gob instead. It's easy to fix, though, so no big deal.
Most of the newer GW- Orks have too small heads, so maybe it's that what looks off, especially combined with his blocky shoulders.
I digg it. While the Goff build looks far too Blood Bowl'ye for my sensibilities, the Bad Moonz one is something I could easily jive with.. just with the Power Klaw instead of that axe though.
Hopefully the new boyz will also have a slightly less BB feel to them than previous Boyz kits.. I want my Orks looking more like Kommandos or GSC (ie with clothes on) and less like BB thankyouverymuch! Enough shirtless torsos..
Geifer wrote: Something about that Warboss just looks off to me. Not sure what it is. Hopefully it's just the photographers picking the worst possible angle again as they do so often.
Like most everyone else I like the Gretchin, albeit not his jaw. If they wanted to give him boss grot vibes they should have given him an iron gob instead. It's easy to fix, though, so no big deal.
Most of the newer GW- Orks have too small heads, so maybe it's that what looks off, especially combined with his blocky shoulders.
Hmm, I see what you mean. I haven't really been exposed to modern Ork proportions and haven't gotten used to them yet. Maybe it's just that.
I hate it tbh, it looks like an AOS kruelboyz boss cosplaying. That big inverted triangle torso is so distinctly different from ork aesthetics. Plus it seems like longer arms and a more upright posture.
I hope they don't do the same thing to any new boyz that might be coming out (if the rumor on orks as new 11th ed box antagonists is true).
I like the new warboss. He keep the spirit of the old metal boss with attack squig, but uppdated for an atempt at less comical style. Way better than the named ork boss with the weird claw.
Great to see a powerfull confident pose rather than ”dashing forward dynamic pose”
For the record, I never said I thought the Warboss was going to be in the starter, but rather surmised that it would be part of the "full wave" that usually follows the launch box (like how Tyranids got their new Hormagaunts, a full kit for Termagants, new Genestealers, etc.). I could of course easily be mistaken and it gets released sooner.
I just finished building a redemptor. To be fair, it’s a pretty good kit with a lot of ability to easily modify the pose. So not a bad kit to have a few of.
Ballistus is monopose with no options. But not bad if you only need one.
They are really trying shift those Ballistus and Redemptor kits.
I quite like the idea of that box, but the Knight one has limited appeal. If the Dominus has rules for 30K I'd very likely have bought one by now, while I think we all have enough of the two Armigers by now.
Can anyone shed light on when the Destrier is going up for pre-order? The wait is torture...
I think he's quite nice, but I much prefer the previous version.
The head, specifically, is a step back. As good as GW's modern plastic tech is these days they can still struggle with the detail required for a top, top mini
Nevelon wrote: Is GW doing something not in the current timeline? But dialing it back a few years?
Nice model. I’m not impressed over the last version, but new plastics are generally a good thing?
They explicitly call out that they've aged his face more in the article, so I imagine not and it's just going to be a "rumours of my death were greatly exaggerated" thing.
Odd question for the hivemind: I keep seeing videos about how the new ork warboss that got leaked confirms something about the 11th edition starter. Any idea why those things are related? Is there something about the packaging that looks different or something?
As with the case for Ghaz, the character of Yarrick is a bit lost since the early 90s. I didn't even care for Orks nor Imperial Guard at the time, but I immediately admired both characters and their awesome models, and wish I had the pocket money to buy both and their vehicles.
The powerclaw on the original Yarrick looks like all it would have done is snipped the poor soul's arm clean off, but the modern one looks like it would have crushed his entire upper body. Then there was the ****ing cool skeleton and bayonet on his gun and now its just a vanilla stormbolter borrowed off of a Marine Terminator.
Don't get me wrong as it's definitely an improvement over the previous sculpt, but I was hoping to see at least some return to the original design. At least with Yarrick he's still recognisable as Yarrick, whereas Ghaz just looks like any ordinary Ork brute in a monsterous mech suit.
Nice to see GW can still hold on to fun parts of the setting on occasion.
New Old Man is a straight upgrade from the waist up, but the coat should be reinforcing the established motion, not flapping around in the imaginary wind so that the leg reinforcements are visible. Nothing some Tamiya won't fix.
Scottywan82 wrote: Odd question for the hivemind: I keep seeing videos about how the new ork warboss that got leaked confirms something about the 11th edition starter. Any idea why those things are related? Is there something about the packaging that looks different or something?
Short answer? We don’t know.
Longer and more detailed but still largely speculative answer?
Valrak, who has a solid track record is reporting Orks as the baddies in the 11th Ed Big Box. Warboss shown off last week was initially assumed to be part of said big box.
However, the original “leak” was of individual character packaging, specifically the cardboard box. Whilst the contents of the Big Box are usually parted out a bit further down the track, it seems odd we’d get that packaging before any other “leaks”. Plus, we know the kit is coming with various options, such as shoota parts, choppy or klaw, Squig or no Squig, shoulder pads and belt buckles. The character models in the Big Boxes tend to be mono-build. So it seems the Warboss model shown off last week is an Ork release for a big End of Edition Armageddon book.
But, still largely speculation. I’m not nailing my colour on to this one.
Yay, he's back!
Looks like he has had a couple of knee replacemends and I would imagine hips too.
We just need to see the new Steel Legion figs now. I hope they will fit in with my old metal ones.
BorderCountess wrote: Since GW said on stream, "he's dead, there was a body" I never want to hear anybody say, "BuT tHe LoRe!" ever again.
As though a little thing like death was ever going to keep Yarrick down. Like, that’s his whole thing; getting back up from mortal wounds. Besides, in a universe with cloning, even leaving a body requires an answer to the question “but was it the right body?”
I just wish they’d brought him back as a dreadnought.
BorderCountess wrote: Since GW said on stream, "he's dead, there was a body" I never want to hear anybody say, "BuT tHe LoRe!" ever again.
As though a little thing like death was ever going to keep Yarrick down. Like, that’s his whole thing; getting back up from mortal wounds. Besides, in a universe with cloning, even leaving a body requires an answer to the question “but was it the right body?”
I just wish they’d brought him back as a dreadnought.
It was Von Strab's body! Some Reichenbach Falls nonsense, right?
Could have been worse, right? Not bad actually, but need more hat! The former model is smaller, but have bigger hat.
If the do steel legion or armageddon ork hunters I would sure get some.
I'd love some twist on this, particularly after that animation. A literal puppetted corpse forcing the Guard to throw their lives away at a cause that was lost before they were born. GW doesn't go for that anymore, but it would be kind of glorious.
While I'm not super fond of the Orks warp reality bit (its more fun as an Imperial superstition to me) you could also go with the idea that they've effectively undone his death so they can keep fighting him and so the Imperial forces will be lead by someone that will keep the battle going forever.
It's probably an overreaction, but throughout the entire video, the complete lack of Armaggedon Steel Legion pre-occupied me far more than Yarrick's re-emergence.
Yarrick: "This is our world! OUR CITY!"
Cadians and Krieg: "With all due respect sir, it really isn't"
It's disappointing that with all the potential and rich history of various Guard regiments, GW artworks and animation are focussing exclusively on those two. It makes the universe look smaller than it ought to.
It bugs me the amount of praise GW is getting for rehashing the same storyline, with the same character, yet again.
I'm sure it'll be a case that the old man is indeed now getting on for 400 but gains 2 wounds, 3 attacks, hits on 2s and rerolls the table or some such turd to boot.
I'm just glad Old Man Yarrick is back. I'm more a fan of 40K as a setting than 40K as a narrative. Like I was fine with Solar Macharius having rules in 3E despite being referred to in past tense
I'd love some twist on this, particularly after that animation. A literal puppetted corpse forcing the Guard to throw their lives away at a cause that was lost before they were born. GW doesn't go for that anymore, but it would be kind of glorious.
While I'm not super fond of the Orks warp reality bit (its more fun as an Imperial superstition to me) you could also go with the idea that they've effectively undone his death so they can keep fighting him and so the Imperial forces will be lead by someone that will keep the battle going forever.
There was a series of short stories (based on an old Battle Report where Yarrick was captured) that heavily implied Ghaz let him escape to keep the war going. Basically it recast them as Ahab and Moby Dick, except that Moby Dick wants to keep Ahab around.
So yeah, reanimated puppet corpse or forbidden Ork technology, both work for me.
New Yarrick looks mostly inoffensive. Nothing but an uninspiring, lifeless rehash of the last version. I suppose in a post-Cotaez world that qualifies as praise.
The hat is a complete disgrace, though. Look at it. A Commissar who wears a diminutive hat like that has less than zero authority.
Its a cool model with plenty of different bits to challenge the painters, metal claw, cloth and expressive face.
What I really dont like, and is the same with Votann characters, is the new very annoying way to base the model with both feet in rocks at different angles. This is freakish annoying to set on a flat base with different themes.
I like how they kept his RT era insane weapon list. Power claw, storm bolter, power sword and bolt pistol AND laser eye. Probably has webber solvent and a blind grenades too.
I like him well enough. A solid homage to the previous model, although nothing groundbreaking in terms of sculpt. Agreed on the point of his hat not being big enough. No self respecting commissar has headwear that small. What he's wearing is a standard officers cap. Not a commissar grade beacon of discipline and steadfastness that soldiers all over the battlefield can home in on in times of need. Getting his old banner back would have been ace, although with the magic of 3d printing, that's not that hard a hard hurdle to jump these days.
Nice enough sculpt, but not nice enough for me to run out and buy it on release. And once again, the tactical masonry is fething gak. They really need to stop it.
I'm pretty keen for some plastic Steel Legion though. Hopefully soon.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Looks like there’s an armature from the Klaw to the backpack, which is a cool addition. Helps explain how a weedy ‘Umie can wield such a brute lump.
The previous model also had some armature to support the big feck off klaw, it just wasn't as pronounced as it appears to be on the new model.
Cool design, but he should have stayed dead alongside Ursakar and Tycho. I see Lukas, Cassius, Verydian(since she's now canon), Vect or even the Aun'Va as better options. If we're doing Armageddon, at least finally give Sly some reason to become canon.
*either a robot, a newly elected(in secret) Ethereal(as a duplicate).
Ashiraya wrote: GW apparently has no interest in doing Steel Legion per Valrak, which explains why his buddies are nowhere to be seen.
It would be hysterical if they suggest you paint Krieg mustard, since Krieg were originally Steel Legion painted grey.
Tut tut tut, the Death Korps predates the Steel Legion as a concept by a year. But it is true they used Steel Legionnaires before Forgeworld got involved.
For the first models, yes, but the Death Korps existed in the IG codex that preceded the Armageddon Campaign/Book
The one with that image, it also names the Krieg's Rough Riders as Death Riders and their tanks as Panzer, so it had some sketch of what the Death Korps would be.
parakuribo wrote: Cool design, but he should have stayed dead alongside Ursakar and Tycho.
Problem there being that while Kell died, Creed got Pokeballed by Trazyn (I think - I get some of the Necron SC names the wrong way around). Can't stay dead if ye didnae die.
I quite like the new Yarrick. The previous version is a classic - one of GW's best from that period - but this one seems fine. The head has a slightly undead look to it, although that might just be the painting. I agree that his hat is underwhelming, however.
Yarrick's return just accentuates how little anything actually changes in the WH40k sandbox.
Dudeface wrote: It bugs me the amount of praise GW is getting for rehashing the same storyline, with the same character, yet again.
Personally I agree, I think it's a bit daft and they should take an opportunity to create new characters/ new regiments to turn the focus on different worlds.
However, in the defence of GW the amount of whinging because Yarrick wasn't there was considerable. So I see why they went down this route.
GW creates new heroes all the time; some catch the attention of fans and some don't. There are loads who appear in stories who never just "click" With the fan base or whom GW uplifts to character status.
I don't mind going back to the old stories, new ones doesn't stick with me at all.
That may be the problem; I think they're remaking Armageddon, even though it was clear Yarrick died. It was bad enough as it is that they did Baal part II. Ragnar and Thraka in 8th, however, was a way to refresh their rivalry.
I would personally like them on Warcom to explain in two or three, very easy to understand, sentences explaining how Yarrick came back came back to life(and I don't mean body double).
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Overread wrote: GW creates new heroes all the time; some catch the attention of fans and some don't. There are loads who appear in stories who never just "click" With the fan base or whom GW uplifts to character status.
I won't argue about it, but you really can't respond to a new character being unpopular by repacking Malibu Stacy with a new hat, just like they did with Calgar's new sculpt.
Speaking of, I really don't like how Titus got a hat, his friends have sculpts, and there is a book based on him, no matter how popular SM II is.... or did both Saber and the entirety of GW forget that Space Marine I wasn't part of 40K(there is DoW with Blood Ravens, but that's for another time)?
parakuribo wrote: I would personally like them on Warcom to explain in two or three, very easy to understand, sentences explaining how Yarrick came back came back to life(and I don't mean body double).
I wouls suggest lost in the warp when the cicatrix was formed while in pursuit of Ghaz (his last sighting prior to the time skip). He managed to pop back into reality over Armageddon as its about to be attacked by orks and Chaos again. A little to nod ot the fact Yarrick might have survived and reappeared at the right place and right time for a big battle thanks to the intervention of Gork (or possibly Mork) who wanted the most badass mortal there is to fight the biggest war there is.
PS: I painted my Kriegs in Steel Legion colors so it will be nice to add the man, the myth and the legend to my collection. I think Yarrick might be one of the oldest character in 40K lore and was sad he died in a very un40K way (probably just old age) instead of a stupid heroic last stand atop a mountain of corpses that lasts for several days.
parakuribo wrote: I would personally like them on Warcom to explain in two or three, very easy to understand, sentences explaining how Yarrick came back came back to life(and I don't mean body double).
Somehow, Yarrick returned.
It's almost like the only reason they moved the timeline forward was to make everyone repurchase their space marine army.
Part of the problem is that the setting is one of perpetual sustained conflict as opposed to our usual preferred "the war is won and everyone lived happily ever after". No one ever "won" the prior wars for Armageddon. Ghaz got bored and without him, the world lost narrative focus but the actual conflict has been ongoing with the world existing as a place you could set stories and encounters whenever you want. They're not doing Armageddon again so much as just returning the focus to the ongoing war. That's the reality of a sandbox setting. There's no satisfying conclusion or clear victor on the grand scale; just results of individual battles or character arcs that don't actually meaningfully change the status quo.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Rather than divine intervention why not lean wholly into the idea that Orks make themselves the strongest foes they can.
He was killed.
The Orks got the body and rebuilt him. Specifically to fight them.
I like this. I like this a lot.
I mean, the simplest answer is that Orks, being a powerful but sporadically psychic race, never actually let him die. He has just been languishing in an infirmary/cot/Iron Throne for the last several (dozen) decades until the Orks were able to build up enough strength to 'ave at 'im.
I mean, if an Ork airship can actually defy physics, why not allow the collective to keep their favorite foe alive...regardless of their foe's actual thoughts on the matter.
Go with the simple explanation, GW, given I don't think there was ever an on-screen body to confirm the death.
The vessel he was on was caught in a warp eddy during the pursuit of Ghazghkull, so he didn't actually die - maybe someone's PR people decided for morale it might be better that it look like he did rather than he was AWOL, but now he's managed to return to Armageddon for the latest round of Yarrick vs. Ghazghkull (vs Angry Ron?)
Dysartes wrote: Go with the simple explanation, GW, given I don't think there was ever an on-screen body to confirm the death.
The vessel he was on was caught in a warp eddy during the pursuit of Ghazghkull, so he didn't actually die - maybe someone's PR people decided for morale it might be better that it look like he did rather than he was AWOL, but now he's managed to return to Armageddon for the latest round of Yarrick vs. Ghazghkull (vs Angry Ron?)
Ok, that would be fun.
The Orks end up just watching Yarrick beat the **** out of Angron, actively cheering him on, as they truly believe that only G.T. has a chance to defeat Yarrick, and Angron is just a big red guy in a brass suit.
And Khorne just watches dumbfounded as the Ork belief in Yarrick overpowers the Blood God's blessings...
Dysartes wrote: Go with the simple explanation, GW, given I don't think there was ever an on-screen body to confirm the death.
The vessel he was on was caught in a warp eddy during the pursuit of Ghazghkull, so he didn't actually die - maybe someone's PR people decided for morale it might be better that it look like he did rather than he was AWOL, but now he's managed to return to Armageddon for the latest round of Yarrick vs. Ghazghkull (vs Angry Ron?)
Ok, that would be fun.
The Orks end up just watching Yarrick beat the **** out of Angron, actively cheering him on, as they truly believe that only G.T. has a chance to defeat Yarrick, and Angron is just a big red guy in a brass suit.
And Khorne just watches dumbfounded as the Ork belief in Yarrick overpowers the Blood God's blessings...
Wouldn't Yarrick's claw be just the right height to twist on Angron's dangly bits?
Dysartes wrote: Go with the simple explanation, GW, given I don't think there was ever an on-screen body to confirm the death.
The vessel he was on was caught in a warp eddy during the pursuit of Ghazghkull, so he didn't actually die - maybe someone's PR people decided for morale it might be better that it look like he did rather than he was AWOL, but now he's managed to return to Armageddon for the latest round of Yarrick vs. Ghazghkull (vs Angry Ron?)
Ok, that would be fun.
The Orks end up just watching Yarrick beat the **** out of Angron, actively cheering him on, as they truly believe that only G.T. has a chance to defeat Yarrick, and Angron is just a big red guy in a brass suit.
And Khorne just watches dumbfounded as the Ork belief in Yarrick overpowers the Blood God's blessings...
Despite the memes, the ork belief power is not that powerful.
If you want something like that then Gork / Mork would have to crash the party and RKO Angron as if it were a WWE cage match.
Yarrick went off with the Templars and the Imperium lost track for a while, leading to him being declared dead. Happens a lot to Commissars, see Gaunt and Cain.
I’m actually impressed that GW hasn’t had a Gork/Mork miniature in some way.
I’m sorta just in the I like new characters and like that some do get retired. But if back, then lost for a bit and back following ghaz is best.
But I also wonder if GW could pull that so in need of Saints, that the imperium is actually finding another loyal person and brainwash them and place them into the position with everything needed to continue the fight. Probably too much work to get it right for a setting like 40K
(Probably one of the most broadly applicable sentences in 40k, really).
Yeah I really don't like the idea that Ork beliefs alter reality. it started as a cheeky way of explaining why Red Ones Go Fasta - an Imperial scientist basically finding that red Ork cars do go slightly faster, and it's turned into a lazy deus ex machina.
So I'm fine with the idea that Ork tech works but no one is sure how. Not, an Orks turn rocks into guns by saying Bang Bang.
I think Ork beliefs, like Imperial beliefs can influence reality, but not bring the dead to life with nothing else.
So I like the idea Ghaz found the corpse, gave it to a dozen of his finest mad docs and said 'make it go' where the winners would get all the slaves and labs they want and the losers went out the airlock. Eventually someone jabbed the corpse with something, he's not even sure what was in the cocktail by then, and Yarrick started twitching. Ghaz smiled and dumped him near the Imperial lines happy to have his favorite chew toy back.
Dysartes wrote: Go with the simple explanation, GW, given I don't think there was ever an on-screen body to confirm the death.
The vessel he was on was caught in a warp eddy during the pursuit of Ghazghkull, so he didn't actually die - maybe someone's PR people decided for morale it might be better that it look like he did rather than he was AWOL, but now he's managed to return to Armageddon for the latest round of Yarrick vs. Ghazghkull (vs Angry Ron?)
Yes, this would be infinitely preferable to loyalist marines doing warp magic to raise the dead tbh.
Who says it's warp magic? The Wolf Priests are masters of medical science, kind of necessarily. They reconstructed Kaspar Hawser in 30k; who says they can't still?
IF they bother to explain it I doubt it'll be anything to do with the wolves and their apparently amazing resurrection superscience, it'll probably just be a "reports of my death were greatly exaggerated" situation
Let's face it there was basically a 0% chance he was going to stay dead, GW haven't killed off a named character with a model since Cadia fell have they? (And Yarrick doesn't have a suspiciously similar-looking daughter to take his place)
Oh I'm sure some poor soul is working on a novel right now.
And/or his favorite chat bot.
Justin Hill has done some really good Yarrick stories, including the one about Yarrick's escape/being allowed to escape. Hopefully he gets this one too.
IIRC, it used to be that Orks just made things operate more efficiently by believing they would.
So a vehicle that's painted red would go faster because the engine is working better than it should.
Their guns don't jam even though they are bad made because they believe their guns are well made.
Stuff like that. What doesn't happen is a rock turning into a nuke, because that just outright breaks the laws of physics and only daemons get to do that.
Then the fan base made a bunch of funny memes that took that concept and blew it out of proporation, then new people saw those memes and assumed it was fluff and started telling other people that to the point where most players believe that if enough orks believed that Khorne had IBS he'll never leave his throne or something absurd like that.
Then the fan base made a bunch of funny memes that took that concept and blew it out of proporation, then new people saw those memes and assumed it was fluff and started telling other people that to the point where most players believe that if enough orks believed that Khorne had IBS he'll never leave his throne or something absurd like that.
The point is, flanderization is bad, m'kay?
No no you're missing the orky beauty of it!
Ork tech works because orks believe it works because ork players believe that that's how orks believe ork tech works.
Charax wrote: (And Yarrick doesn't have a suspiciously similar-looking daughter to take his place)
It could be his bastard son SeaBasstian Yarrick. Who inherited his father's old power klaw, stormbolter and bale eye. And who also happens to be a Commissar (clearly didn't get his father's hat!).
It was never definitive. There was one fiction piece that was about a magos biologis who was experimenting on ork spores in limited circumstances. They did discover that something controlled the subspecies the spores developed into completely independently of the subspecies they were shed by. Thy couldn’t find any chemical signals to account for this so they postulated that it was a psychic effect. Then they spun that off into a whole mess of other “conclusions” based on, ironically, wishful thinking.
The same piece suggested that instead of the Magos’ crazy reality warping hypothesis, it was much more likely that Ork Meks just painted their fastest vehicles red, especially considering that they almost never created identical vehicles in the first place.
The internet just grabbed the wildest bits and ran with it and now you have people coming into the game whose only exposure to orks is through internet memes.
for a lot of people the fluff is the only thing why 40k is even worth following
take that away and you only have expensive models and mediocre gaming rules with a fast turnover
if the fuff doesn't matter any more, there won't be anything left to stick with that game
for a lot of people the fluff is the only thing why 40k is even worth following
take that away and you only have expensive models and mediocre gaming rules with a fast turnover
if the fuff doesn't matter any more, there won't be anything left to stick with that game
Charax wrote: it'll probably just be a "reports of my death were greatly exaggerated" situation
I'd bet heavily on this.
Unless I'm missing some book I've never read, he was "killed" offscreen in the 9th edition codex, with no follow up lore impact.
Its easy just to have those reports be a mistake.
True but it would be more interesting, to me at leat, if the false death announcement was part of some sort of ploy. something about baiting out suspected cowards and traitors in the upper ranks or something.
for a lot of people the fluff is the only thing why 40k is even worth following
take that away and you only have expensive models and mediocre gaming rules with a fast turnover
if the fuff doesn't matter any more, there won't be anything left to stick with that game
What is cool about the fluff is the tone and themes, not the details; those have never made sense. Granted, they have also been destroying the themes in recent years. But ultimately it is tie-in fiction for toy soldiers.
RaptorusRex wrote: Who says it's warp magic? The Wolf Priests are masters of medical science, kind of necessarily. They reconstructed Kaspar Hawser in 30k; who says they can't still?
for a lot of people the fluff is the only thing why 40k is even worth following
take that away and you only have expensive models and mediocre gaming rules with a fast turnover
if the fuff doesn't matter any more, there won't be anything left to stick with that game
What is cool about the fluff is the tone and themes, not the details; those have never made sense. Granted, they have also been destroying the themes in recent years. But ultimately it is tie-in fiction for toy soldiers.
This. In-universe history, myth, legends, religions. Those are all great. They make a world feel rich and like a real place. Broad strokes of the past and present, enough to make your imagination kick in to find connections on your own, and come up with your own stories.
Lore is not that. Lore is when nerds take those and argue about what is absolutely true and "canon" and homogenise the setting so it can fit onto a wiki. Where ever more mundane and minor details become the focus and no myth and legend is allowed any more, past events must have a canon way that they played out, down to the smallest detail.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Gork / Mork would have to crash the party and RKO Angron as if it were a WWE cage match.
I would gladly pay for all the expansions if this happened.
I'd like to think that if the Emperor manifested as Jesus or Caesar and other civilization changing figures, Gork and Mork manifested as the Ultimate Warrior, Hulk Hogan and other famous and legendary prize-fighters and wrestlers.
Because sometimes a god just wants to German suplex a dude, you know?
A Town Called Malus wrote: This. In-universe history, myth, legends, religions. Those are all great. They make a world feel rich and like a real place. Broad strokes of the past and present, enough to make your imagination kick in to find connections on your own, and come up with your own stories.
Lore is not that. Lore is when nerds take those and argue about what is absolutely true and "canon" and homogenise the setting so it can fit onto a wiki. Where ever more mundane and minor details become the focus and no myth and legend is allowed any more, past events must have a canon way that they played out, down to the smallest detail.
This is precisely my issue with the Horus Heresy game & novels. I liked how Rick Priestly set it up as "These myths are so old, we're not even sure if all of it us true." To paraphrase another Dakkanaut, "It went from Greek myths to now knowing Sanguinius's exact hairstyle at the Siege of Terra."
for a lot of people the fluff is the only thing why 40k is even worth following
take that away and you only have expensive models and mediocre gaming rules with a fast turnover
if the fuff doesn't matter any more, there won't be anything left to stick with that game
What is cool about the fluff is the tone and themes, not the details; those have never made sense. Granted, they have also been destroying the themes in recent years. But ultimately it is tie-in fiction for toy soldiers.
True. Even in the good old days, the details were pretty much always lame and cliche. Pretty much all rivalities ended up with both characters killing each other. Though to be honest this turn toward "comic book characters that never dies" is a new low for GW
Seems fine to me. Krieg was originally a paint scheme for Steel Legion, so doing it in reverse makes perfect sense. And they basically have the same vibe anyway.
Seems fine to me. Krieg was originally a paint scheme for Steel Legion, so doing it in reverse makes perfect sense. And they basically have the same vibe anyway.
Despite what GW apparently think, Krieg predate Codex: Armageddon.
Pariah Press wrote: Yes, if GW had any integrity whatsoever they would release two nearly identical ranges of gas masked, coat wearing Imperial guardsmen. /s
We literally just had Red Spikey Marines (no, the other Red Spikey Marines) and Eldar with different hats.
But the Steel Legion all died off screen. Unlike those Cadians who's world only exploded!
Nah, I'm with Pariah here, more than an upgrade sprue for Steel Legion would be nonsensical.
Mordians, Vostroyans, Catachans - these are very different, but Krieg and Steel Legion? Come on.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Gork / Mork would have to crash the party and RKO Angron as if it were a WWE cage match.
I would gladly pay for all the expansions if this happened.
I'd like to think that if the Emperor manifested as Jesus or Caesar and other civilization changing figures, Gork and Mork manifested as the Ultimate Warrior, Hulk Hogan and other famous and legendary prize-fighters and wrestlers.
Because sometimes a god just wants to German suplex a dude, you know?
I mean, it's right there if you know what to look for...
Pariah Press wrote: Yes, if GW had any integrity whatsoever they would release two nearly identical ranges of gas masked, coat wearing Imperial guardsmen. /s
Ah yes, because Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Space Wolves look soooo different /s
The only point in similarity between Krieg and Steel Legion are the helmets and masks.
They have noticeably different weapons and coats.
Krieg have great coats and long rifles because they fight in the trenches and are supposed to mimic WW1.
Steel Legion have short coats and much smaller lasguns because they are supposed to be a WW2 inspired mechanized force and carrying around a meter long rifle when you're in a transport is a pain in the arse.
Passing current Krieg off as Steel Legion completely ignores the difference in doctrine and their historical, real life inspiration.
Pariah Press wrote: Yes, if GW had any integrity whatsoever they would release two nearly identical ranges of gas masked, coat wearing Imperial guardsmen. /s
Ah yes, because Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Space Wolves look soooo different /s
The only point in similarity between Krieg and Steel Legion are the helmets and masks.
They have noticeably different weapons and coats.
Krieg have great coats and long rifles because they fight in the trenches and are supposed to mimic WW1.
Steel Legion have short coats and much smaller lasguns because they are supposed to be a WW2 inspired mechanized force and carrying around a meter long rifle when you're in a transport is a pain in the arse.
Passing current Krieg off as Steel Legion completely ignores the difference in doctrine and their historical, real life inspiration.
Out of the regiments that have had models:
Cadians
Death Korps
Catachans
Vostroyans
Valhallans
Praetorians
Mordians
Tallarns
Elysians
Then some of the more esoteric options that haven't had anything yet that they could develop
We've got two full lines and a very old one in Catachans. How likely it is do you think it is that they're going to choose the other gas mask guys when they come to choose which of them to make into the 3rd modern line?
Pariah Press wrote: Yes, if GW had any integrity whatsoever they would release two nearly identical ranges of gas masked, coat wearing Imperial guardsmen. /s
Ah yes, because Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Space Wolves look soooo different /s
The only point in similarity between Krieg and Steel Legion are the helmets and masks.
They have noticeably different weapons and coats.
Krieg have great coats and long rifles because they fight in the trenches and are supposed to mimic WW1.
Steel Legion have short coats and much smaller lasguns because they are supposed to be a WW2 inspired mechanized force and carrying around a meter long rifle when you're in a transport is a pain in the arse.
Passing current Krieg off as Steel Legion completely ignores the difference in doctrine and their historical, real life inspiration.
Out of the regiments that have had models:
Cadians
Death Korps
Catachans
Vostroyans
Valhallans
Praetorians
Mordians
Tallarns
Elysians
Then some of the more esoteric options that haven't had anything yet that they could develop
We've got two full lines and a very old one in Catachans. How likely it is do you think it is that they're going to choose the other gas mask guys when they come to choose which of them to make into the 3rd modern line?
Why did you leave out Steel Legion?
Spoiler:
As to why they would release something for them...oh I don't know, maybe because they are the Armageddon Steel Legion and the focus is on Armageddon and they brought back a special character for the Armageddon Steel Legion from the dead.
What next, no Catachans on Catachan? No Ultramarines on Macraage? No Sisters of Silence on Terra...actually GW might do that, they seemed to have forgotten they exist.
That said, MTO would probably be the best way to go about it. Not just for Steel Legion but for the other missing regiments. That way instead of dedicating manufacturing and storage to sets that might not be sold, they know exactly what to make for who.
But the Steel Legion all died off screen. Unlike those Cadians who's world only exploded!
Yeah that's the other thing that irks me.
So the Steel Legion had 3 wars against Orks and they are all dead, but the Cadians had 13 wars against a much more dangerous enemy and they lost their planet but they are literally everywhere?
What, did proximity to the warp give them the reproductive capability of rabbits?
Yeah despite their common origin they're not the same.
Krieg war WWI French while Steel Legion are... how to put it politely... influenced by the German armies of World War II. Which is weird since the Armageddon war was modeled on the Eastern Front of WWII and the Orks were the Germans. But anyway.
The Krieg have calf length great coats, steel legion thigh-length smocks. Weapons are also different.
Now it's easy to handwave, after 30 years (or whatever) of war the SL are equipped with gear from other worlds (does Krieg still make stuff?). Done and dusted.
Plus the SL are only one of many Armageddon regiments, their jungle regiments dressed just like Catachans as it happens.
So it doesn't bug me, I'm a huge IG fan but never had either regiment, but it amuses me.
Question, did the SL show up in the original, original RT era Armageddon board game? Even as a name?
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Krieg war WWI French while Steel Legion are... how to put it politely... influenced by the German armies of World War II. Which is weird since the Armageddon war was modeled on the Eastern Front of WWII and the Orks were the Germans. But anyway.
The most famous named Armageddon-ite is Herman von Strab, so the German thing's always been there with them.
Pariah Press wrote: Yes, if GW had any integrity whatsoever they would release two nearly identical ranges of gas masked, coat wearing Imperial guardsmen. /s
Ah yes, because Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Space Wolves look soooo different /s
The only point in similarity between Krieg and Steel Legion are the helmets and masks.
They have noticeably different weapons and coats.
Krieg have great coats and long rifles because they fight in the trenches and are supposed to mimic WW1.
Steel Legion have short coats and much smaller lasguns because they are supposed to be a WW2 inspired mechanized force and carrying around a meter long rifle when you're in a transport is a pain in the arse.
Passing current Krieg off as Steel Legion completely ignores the difference in doctrine and their historical, real life inspiration.
Out of the regiments that have had models:
Cadians
Death Korps
Catachans
Vostroyans
Valhallans
Praetorians
Mordians
Tallarns
Elysians
Then some of the more esoteric options that haven't had anything yet that they could develop
We've got two full lines and a very old one in Catachans. How likely it is do you think it is that they're going to choose the other gas mask guys when they come to choose which of them to make into the 3rd modern line?
Exactly
Im all for criticizing GW, but making steel legion instead of one of these other regiments
would be an incredible waste of ressources. I get it that they are not exactly the same as Krieg, but they are very similar visually.
I cant believe people still fall for this crap. Its marketing/manufactured demand. They get people worked up about something (ie how dare they take our Steel Legion away), suddenly a bunch of people who had no opinion over it become passionate on the topic, then a couple years later surprise heres the thing you all want.
Now instead of selling steel legion minis to all 5 people that care enough to buy them on release day, theres thousands frothing at the mouth for them because it was taken from them before and they are going to make sure they dont miss out on them this time lest they be taken away again.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Plastic Vostroyans! Plastic Vostroyans! The people demand Plastic Vostroyans!
Or Necromunda Spiders.
You know, with 3d Printing they can really go nuts with MTO and just have that option up permanently so people can have their special plastic / resin regiment or odd ball units.
They don't need to dedicate a production pipeline and molds that way and can just have a few hundred printers churning them out on demand.
Gert wrote: That's a psyop, there's really no such thing as an Exodites fan.
I've been waiting the 30 years since getting my 2nd Ed Eldar codex for Exodites to arrive. Very much hoping Valrak is right and they arrive in the next year or two
chaos0xomega wrote: I cant believe people still fall for this crap. Its marketing/manufactured demand. They get people worked up about something (ie how dare they take our Steel Legion away), suddenly a bunch of people who had no opinion over it become passionate on the topic, then a couple years later surprise heres the thing you all want.
Now instead of selling steel legion minis to all 5 people that care enough to buy them on release day, theres thousands frothing at the mouth for them because it was taken from them before and they are going to make sure they dont miss out on them this time lest they be taken away again.
chaos0xomega wrote: I cant believe people still fall for this crap. Its marketing/manufactured demand. They get people worked up about something (ie how dare they take our Steel Legion away), suddenly a bunch of people who had no opinion over it become passionate on the topic, then a couple years later surprise heres the thing you all want.
Now instead of selling steel legion minis to all 5 people that care enough to buy them on release day, theres thousands frothing at the mouth for them because it was taken from them before and they are going to make sure they dont miss out on them this time lest they be taken away again.
chaos0xomega wrote: I cant believe people still fall for this crap. Its marketing/manufactured demand. They get people worked up about something (ie how dare they take our Steel Legion away), suddenly a bunch of people who had no opinion over it become passionate on the topic, then a couple years later surprise heres the thing you all want.
Now instead of selling steel legion minis to all 5 people that care enough to buy them on release day, theres thousands frothing at the mouth for them because it was taken from them before and they are going to make sure they dont miss out on them this time lest they be taken away again.
They go on wide release via Forgeworld, anyone can get them, but not many people do because they're super expensive (to the point where people were cutting up the inserts made for the Gorgon transport to try and get more minis). They're a novelty regiment, not really that popular.
Then they get removed from sale, people are annoyed, but it's not a huge deal
Then after several years the Kill Team comes out and people absolutely lose their minds, people who barely paid any attention to the Death Korps before are swearing blind that they will buy a whole regiment's worth of kill teams to fuel their newly discovered loooove of them, no doubt fuelled by a thousand youtube channels spouting shovel memes
so GW see this enthusiasm and release them as a full plastic regiment, only the third they've ever made.
- Make product available, moderate sales - Remove product from sale for years - Make a limited release to spark interest - Full release to capitalise on renewed interest
I doubt GW would ever mix fantasy and 40k elements together.
Years and years ago, there was a Golden Demon entry with Eldar on a dinosaur. Predominantly scratch built, one of the Eldar was pregnant. It was a nice diorama piece.
I'm also willing to bet that a fair proportion of the people being riled up here wouldn't buy it anyway.
Even if out of nowhere GW announced a surprise Steel Legion kill team next week, all you'd see is a bunch of fresh complaints & excuses.They're in a FOMO box, or the kit contains female options, or it's too late and they already 3D printed their own Steel Legion army. Outrage is the goal for too many.
They go on wide release via Forgeworld, anyone can get them, but not many people do because they're super expensive (to the point where people were cutting up the inserts made for the Gorgon transport to try and get more minis). They're a novelty regiment, not really that popular.
Then they get removed from sale, people are annoyed, but it's not a huge deal
Then after several years the Kill Team comes out and people absolutely lose their minds, people who barely paid any attention to the Death Korps before are swearing blind that they will buy a whole regiment's worth of kill teams to fuel their newly discovered loooove of them, no doubt fuelled by a thousand youtube channels spouting shovel memes
But... this isn't what happened with the Krieg. The Elysians were removed from sale by FW, but the Krieg were literally available until about a month after the plastic Kill Team unit shipped. There was a few months without Death Riders, but it was pretty obvious they were coming in plastic at that point so nobody stressed out about it.
They go on wide release via Forgeworld, anyone can get them, but not many people do because they're super expensive (to the point where people were cutting up the inserts made for the Gorgon transport to try and get more minis). They're a novelty regiment, not really that popular.
Then they get removed from sale, people are annoyed, but it's not a huge deal
Then after several years the Kill Team comes out and people absolutely lose their minds, people who barely paid any attention to the Death Korps before are swearing blind that they will buy a whole regiment's worth of kill teams to fuel their newly discovered loooove of them, no doubt fuelled by a thousand youtube channels spouting shovel memes
But... this isn't what happened with the Krieg. The Elysians were removed from sale by FW, but the Krieg were literally available until about a month after the plastic Kill Team unit shipped. There was a few months without Death Riders, but it was pretty obvious they were coming in plastic at that point so nobody stressed out about it.
The whole thing feels very reductionist whataboutism to manufacture this week/months e-drama and reason to be angry at GW. I don't really understand or know why theres such an outcry over this. It aucks for all 10 steel legion fans that your regiment is now decimated to the point t it exists only on armageddon so tou can continue using your forces and converting new stuff whilst having an in universe reason they dont need a bespoke unit in the codex (which everyone complained about anyway).
Dudeface wrote: The whole thing feels very reductionist whataboutism to manufacture this week/months e-drama and reason to be angry at GW. I don't really understand or know why theres such an outcry over this. It aucks for all 10 steel legion fans that your regiment is now decimated to the point t it exists only on armageddon so tou can continue using your forces and converting new stuff whilst having an in universe reason they dont need a bespoke unit in the codex (which everyone complained about anyway).
What a wonderful solution. Somehow Yarrick returned, because the latest plot repetition is Armageddon again, but all of the Steel Legion were killed, so they get replaced by Cadians who totally haven't been decimated at all, and Death Korps because gas masks.
We're just watching the degradation of the background in real time.
And nobody has mentioned the daemon invasion yet...
Dudeface wrote: The whole thing feels very reductionist whataboutism to manufacture this week/months e-drama and reason to be angry at GW. I don't really understand or know why theres such an outcry over this. It aucks for all 10 steel legion fans that your regiment is now decimated to the point t it exists only on armageddon so tou can continue using your forces and converting new stuff whilst having an in universe reason they dont need a bespoke unit in the codex (which everyone complained about anyway).
I mean, an upgrade sprue for the Cadians with some gas mask heads and a banner/missile launcher and grenade launcher would have been cool and probably fit on a half size sprue even, but I think people who want Mordians etc would have been pretty upset if GW had given any potential slot for a third guard regiment to one that is basically a combination of the two existing ones.
I'm guessing it's because the iconic conflict on Armageddon is Guard vs. Orks, and also Angron is the most boring antagonist. The best parts of his involvement in the Arks of Omen books were his thoughts about wanting to die, but Khorne keeps making him go on.
You might, someday, get an Exodite Kill Team. Or they'll make a lone Exodite based off of some Black Library character - and dump it straight to Legends.
They go on wide release via Forgeworld, anyone can get them, but not many people do because they're super expensive (to the point where people were cutting up the inserts made for the Gorgon transport to try and get more minis). They're a novelty regiment, not really that popular.
Then they get removed from sale, people are annoyed, but it's not a huge deal
Then after several years the Kill Team comes out and people absolutely lose their minds, people who barely paid any attention to the Death Korps before are swearing blind that they will buy a whole regiment's worth of kill teams to fuel their newly discovered loooove of them, no doubt fuelled by a thousand youtube channels spouting shovel memes
so GW see this enthusiasm and release them as a full plastic regiment, only the third they've ever made.
- Make product available, moderate sales
- Remove product from sale for years
- Make a limited release to spark interest
- Full release to capitalise on renewed interest
The really funny part is that as expensive as FW Krieg always were? Building them in plastic is now equal to or even more expensive thanks to recent price hikes.
I'd have been slightly better off had I built Krieg years ago.
Dudeface wrote: The whole thing feels very reductionist whataboutism to manufacture this week/months e-drama and reason to be angry at GW. I don't really understand or know why theres such an outcry over this. It aucks for all 10 steel legion fans that your regiment is now decimated to the point t it exists only on armageddon so tou can continue using your forces and converting new stuff whilst having an in universe reason they dont need a bespoke unit in the codex (which everyone complained about anyway).
I mean, an upgrade sprue for the Cadians with some gas mask heads and a banner/missile launcher and grenade launcher would have been cool and probably fit on a half size sprue even, but I think people who want Mordians etc would have been pretty upset if GW had given any potential slot for a third guard regiment to one that is basically a combination of the two existing ones.
That's essentially the point. I arent sure when people just let creativity die and blamed GW for it.
There isn't need for a dedicated kit for everything, to the point a group of the community get angry at conversions not being supported.
To add to that, the regiment exists historically. Have a game set in m39 if you need an excuse for your steel legion playing against tau, enjoy the setting with minimal imagination required.
But no, unless it's all sign, sealed and delivered with a monopose box, people have to be angry about something theyve never used or seen going away as a possible plastic kit.
Pretty sure the obligatory WGA reference has already been name-dropped, but just to be on the obnoxious/safe side:
Whoever wants plastic Steel Legion, plastic Vostroyans, plastic Praetorians or plastic Mordians, has an affordable alternative available.
Personally, should GW ever decide to do a 4th plastic Guard regiment, I'd prefer a more esoteric choice like the Vostroyans, Tanith, Tallarns or Arkan Confederates over the more generic WW2-inspired ones.
Esmer wrote: Pretty sure the obligatory WGA reference has already been name-dropped, but just to be on the obnoxious/safe side:
Whoever wants plastic Steel Legion, plastic Vostroyans, plastic Praetorians or plastic Mordians, has an affordable alternative available.
Personally, should GW ever decide to do a 4th plastic Guard regiment, I'd prefer a more esoteric choice like the Vostroyans, Tanith, Tallarns or Arkan Confederates over the more generic WW2-inspired ones.
As a long-term Catachan player, WGA and their Space Nam line are the sole reason I'm content with Catachans at the moment. They just look right, are compatible with actual Catachan bits, and are CHEAP.
GW is going to have their hands full trying to outdo that kit in quality, let alone the price per model.
You might, someday, get an Exodite Kill Team. Or they'll make a lone Exodite based off of some Black Library character - and dump it straight to Legends.
This seems rather overconfident considering we've had the return of Genestealer Cults, Squats and Eldar Corsairs over the last decade or so…
Greenfield wrote: This seems rather overconfident considering we've had the return of Genestealer Cults, Squats and Eldar Corsairs over the last decade or so…
Well, those were actual returns for Squats and Cults. I don't recall Corsairs having "these are Corsairs specifically" miniature line, but you could argue the early Eldar were all Corsair models.
Exodites never really had a physical presence we could be returning to. I think their only list was something from Citadel Journal? They'd effectively be a whole new faction.
I think the only Exodites GW have ever done is the Brightstallion from one of the early versions of Epic/Titan Legions and that was basically a 4 legged dreadnought - so really small at that scale.
Otherwise yes they are basically something GW has kept around in the lore for utterly ages but never actually touched. So for comparison they are closer to getting Cathay in Old World.
Corsairs had some models under Forgeworld if I recall right, but they've also had that kind of "formed of Eldar who just wandered off to be pirates" bit of the lore which kind of left them in that grey area of just being regular Eldar
For me I'd favour Exodites just as it would be a new army; new visual direction and new style of Eldar instead of just a variation of Craftworld.
Overread wrote: I think the only Exodites GW have ever done is the Brightstallion from one of the early versions of Epic/Titan Legions and that was basically a 4 legged dreadnought - so really small at that scale.
Otherwise yes they are basically something GW has kept around in the lore for utterly ages but never actually touched. So for comparison they are closer to getting Cathay in Old World.
Corsairs had some models under Forgeworld if I recall right, but they've also had that kind of "formed of Eldar who just wandered off to be pirates" bit of the lore which kind of left them in that grey area of just being regular Eldar
For me I'd favour Exodites just as it would be a new army; new visual direction and new style of Eldar instead of just a variation of Craftworld.
Originally, all Eldar knights were exodites by definition as all the knights were fighting over the megafauna in a particular world. The Bright Stallion was only one of several knight patterns along with Towering Destroyer and a couple of others.
I think Fire Gale was the third version (a simpler two armed knight). Apart from The GW Wraithknight, the only other 40k knight model was an Armorcast Towering Destroyer.
My preference would be that all these return for Legion Imperialis……
Overread wrote: I think the only Exodites GW have ever done is the Brightstallion from one of the early versions of Epic/Titan Legions and that was basically a 4 legged dreadnought - so really small at that scale.
Otherwise yes they are basically something GW has kept around in the lore for utterly ages but never actually touched. So for comparison they are closer to getting Cathay in Old World.
Corsairs had some models under Forgeworld if I recall right, but they've also had that kind of "formed of Eldar who just wandered off to be pirates" bit of the lore which kind of left them in that grey area of just being regular Eldar
For me I'd favour Exodites just as it would be a new army; new visual direction and new style of Eldar instead of just a variation of Craftworld.
Originally, all Eldar knights were exodites by definition as all the knights were fighting over the megafauna in a particular world. The Bright Stallion was only one of several knight patterns along with Towering Destroyer and a couple of others.
Yep aside the 2nd edition codex with the Exodite Knights (the dragon riding ones people keep focusing) in epic they where just the pilots in the same way as the Imperial Knights.
I always said GW easiest way to attempt them was a dual kit for a new Wraithknight Chasis and call them Exodite Knights, add some dragon riders as inf companions instead Armigers and be done with it.
Greenfield wrote: This seems rather overconfident considering we've had the return of Genestealer Cults, Squats and Eldar Corsairs over the last decade or so…
Well, those were actual returns for Squats and Cults. I don't recall Corsairs having "these are Corsairs specifically" miniature line, but you could argue the early Eldar were all Corsair models.
Exodites never really had a physical presence we could be returning to. I think their only list was something from Citadel Journal? They'd effectively be a whole new faction.
They were in the first Codex: Eldar (released for second edition) but never received miniatures. In fact, I think they might now – after the return of Rough Riders, Genestealer Cults, Squats and various others things, and actual miniatures for Eldar Corsairs (which appeared in the same codex as Eldar Pirates – be the only unit to have appeared in a second edition army list which has no extant modern equivalent. I don't disagree that if they were to appear now they'd effectively be a whole new faction, but I don't think that's at all unlikely, and probably sooner rather than later…
Exodites did have models made for them for Epic back in '96, they were just never released(or were released in a very limited manner for staff). The preview images for them can still be found by doing a simple search.
Additionally, there were a number of kitbashes shown off in the 2nd Codex and related WDs — pretty sure WD 200 has a showdown diorama between a Dragon Knight and Chaplain on bike.
They go on wide release via Forgeworld, anyone can get them, but not many people do because they're super expensive (to the point where people were cutting up the inserts made for the Gorgon transport to try and get more minis). They're a novelty regiment, not really that popular.
Then they get removed from sale, people are annoyed, but it's not a huge deal
Then after several years the Kill Team comes out and people absolutely lose their minds, people who barely paid any attention to the Death Korps before are swearing blind that they will buy a whole regiment's worth of kill teams to fuel their newly discovered loooove of them, no doubt fuelled by a thousand youtube channels spouting shovel memes
But... this isn't what happened with the Krieg. The Elysians were removed from sale by FW, but the Krieg were literally available until about a month after the plastic Kill Team unit shipped. There was a few months without Death Riders, but it was pretty obvious they were coming in plastic at that point so nobody stressed out about it.
I may be wrong, but Krieggers were still around and were popular. Elysians were dropped because they weren't even though there was good demand for them in the months before when they. Were. Currently. Out. Of. Stock
RaptorusRex wrote: Additionally, there were a number of kitbashes shown off in the 2nd Codex and related WDs — pretty sure WD 200 has a showdown diorama between a Dragon Knight and Chaplain on bike.
One of the classic Mike McVey dioramas - if viewed from above, I seem to recall it formed a yin-yang symbol.
40k has been tapping way top much into the nostalgia aspect in the last 15-20 years or so, and hasnt release one new race since the tau/kroot (unless mistaken). Instead of expdite, id much prefer if they released a new race
streetsamurai wrote: 40k has been tapping way top much into the nostalgia aspect in the last 15-20 years or so, and hasnt release one new race since the tau/kroot (unless mistaken). Instead of expdite, id much prefer if they released a new race
We got stumpy Space Marines called Votann. That's new.
streetsamurai wrote: 40k has been tapping way top much into the nostalgia aspect in the last 15-20 years or so, and hasnt release one new race since the tau/kroot (unless mistaken). Instead of expdite, id much prefer if they released a new race
We got stumpy Space Marines called Votann. That's new.
streetsamurai wrote: 40k has been tapping way top much into the nostalgia aspect in the last 15-20 years or so, and hasnt release one new race since the tau/kroot (unless mistaken). Instead of expdite, id much prefer if they released a new race
We got stumpy Space Marines called Votann. That's new.
Depends if you ascribe them to squats.
They feel different from the Necromunda Squats. But I concede the point.
Honestly, what other type of army could they create that would fill its own niche and not feel like a copy/paste of another army?
Unless you had a WHFB style Bretonnian Cavalry style force?
streetsamurai wrote: 40k has been tapping way top much into the nostalgia aspect in the last 15-20 years or so, and hasnt release one new race since the tau/kroot (unless mistaken). Instead of expdite, id much prefer if they released a new race
We got stumpy Space Marines called Votann. That's new.
Depends if you ascribe them to squats.
They feel different from the Necromunda Squats. But I concede the point.
Honestly, what other type of army could they create that would fill its own niche and not feel like a copy/paste of another army?
Unless you had a WHFB style Bretonnian Cavalry style force?
streetsamurai wrote: 40k has been tapping way top much into the nostalgia aspect in the last 15-20 years or so, and hasnt release one new race since the tau/kroot (unless mistaken). Instead of expdite, id much prefer if they released a new race
We got stumpy Space Marines called Votann. That's new.
Depends if you ascribe them to squats.
They feel different from the Necromunda Squats. But I concede the point.
Honestly, what other type of army could they create that would fill its own niche and not feel like a copy/paste of another army?
Unless you had a WHFB style Bretonnian Cavalry style force?
Honestly I want some real aliens. Nids go in the right direction, the tau auxiliary forces do as well, but given somethong properly alien. Not bipedal, not something holding guns, not something that apes known biology so much.
Even as a stats point to leverage, imagine some sentient slimes or plants that have loads of wounds each, fnp or regeneration but no saves to speak of. Or an army that uses t1 or t2 profiles but has insane mitigation to balance it out.
streetsamurai wrote: 40k has been tapping way top much into the nostalgia aspect in the last 15-20 years or so, and hasnt release one new race since the tau/kroot (unless mistaken). Instead of expdite, id much prefer if they released a new race
We got stumpy Space Marines called Votann. That's new.
streetsamurai wrote: 40k has been tapping way top much into the nostalgia aspect in the last 15-20 years or so, and hasnt release one new race since the tau/kroot (unless mistaken). Instead of expdite, id much prefer if they released a new race
We got stumpy Space Marines called Votann. That's new.
Depends if you ascribe them to squats.
They feel different from the Necromunda Squats. But I concede the point.
Honestly, what other type of army could they create that would fill its own niche and not feel like a copy/paste of another army?
Unless you had a WHFB style Bretonnian Cavalry style force?
Honestly I want some real aliens. Nids go in the right direction, the tau auxiliary forces do as well, but given somethong properly alien. Not bipedal, not something holding guns, not something that apes known biology so much.
Even as a stats point to leverage, imagine some sentient slimes or plants that have loads of wounds each, fnp or regeneration but no saves to speak of. Or an army that uses t1 or t2 profiles but has insane mitigation to balance it out.
I'd agree heck its one reason I went with Tyranids years ago when starting.
Honestly a super easy win for GW would be to do Tau Auxiliaries as a separate army. Use Kroot as the core and the draft in loads of xeno reaces as support units. Tau thus gets to remain focused on the mech-suits which are very popular; and they can flesh out the whole Auxiliaries army with new units and aliens that fit the niches needed for a full army. GW can even watch sales and consider splintering any popular force off as their own army.
streetsamurai wrote: 40k has been tapping way top much into the nostalgia aspect in the last 15-20 years or so, and hasnt release one new race since the tau/kroot (unless mistaken). Instead of expdite, id much prefer if they released a new race
Difficulty there is Where Did They Come From?
Extra-galactic is the Tyranid thing. Very long nap from pre-pre-pre-pre history is the Necron thing. Deep Core is the Votann thing. Essentially a pocket dimension is the Dark Eldar thing.
To be of any note, you need to be pretty big. The Tau are pushing their luck there. Or at least they did to begin with.
So, I don’t disagree. New Xenos are welcome Xenos. But…where have they been the past 10,000+ years, that someone or something else isn’t already from?
See that's where I kind of wanted that whole "Imperium cut in two" storyline to go. Cut the Imperium in half and let Xenos have a chance from the fringe worlds.
Tau works because we know that they are on the rim and that's basically where the last races hide out as the Imperium dominates the middle. So you could have them as part of the Tau forces.
Also lets not forget the Warp you could easily have one race that foretold the end of their worlds at the might of the Imperium (or a sneaky Eldar told them) and thus fled into the Warp in a different way; using it to jump whole world-ships into the future and restart.
Normally I would say no because they are too small and spread out to be an actual army...but we did get standalone books for Harlequins, Custodes and the like so all common sense goes out the window I guess.
I'd be more interested in Ghoul Stars content. You know, that uncharted region of space that is incredibly dangerous and not even Nids want to go there.
Sub-factions work because they’re precisely that. Specialised sections of existing cultures/militaries.
Hurd could work, as the background repeatedly mentions Migrations. With the galaxy in chaos (little c!) that could be a trigger for them to show up in larger numbers. Especially if their background explains it was only regular Imperial oppression that kept them more or less in check.
Overread wrote: If that were true where the heck are the Eldar Exodites that they've been teasing for 30odd years
They didnt (to my knowledge) remove exodites from the game, they've only ever been a lore bit, at least as far as I can remember for my 23 or so years in this hobby. Even if they did, that was well before the current business model was established and in place so the model of manufacturing demand from outrage over misplaced nostalgia won't exactly work there.
They go on wide release via Forgeworld, anyone can get them, but not many people do because they're super expensive (to the point where people were cutting up the inserts made for the Gorgon transport to try and get more minis). They're a novelty regiment, not really that popular.
Then they get removed from sale, people are annoyed, but it's not a huge deal
Then after several years the Kill Team comes out and people absolutely lose their minds, people who barely paid any attention to the Death Korps before are swearing blind that they will buy a whole regiment's worth of kill teams to fuel their newly discovered loooove of them, no doubt fuelled by a thousand youtube channels spouting shovel memes
so GW see this enthusiasm and release them as a full plastic regiment, only the third they've ever made.
- Make product available, moderate sales
- Remove product from sale for years
- Make a limited release to spark interest
- Full release to capitalise on renewed interest
Same thing with:
Sisters of Battle
Eldar Corsairs
Yarrick
World Eaters
Emperors Children
Imperial Guard Rough Riders (they were, in fact, legendsed out of the game for a while, something that I constantly remind people of but few seem to remember)
Really like half the named characters in the game feel like they were briefly discontinued or removed from sale at some point in the past 10 years or so pending their return in a resculpted variant.
If you want to be a real cynic - theres also the entirety of The Old World.
Looking forward to seeing what they do with it. I quite liked the boxed version they released despite its short lifespan, it was actually an interesting game design with new ideas for 40k.
I get the feeling these new rules are going to be far less adventurous....
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Sub-factions work because they’re precisely that. Specialised sections of existing cultures/militaries.
Hurd could work, as the background repeatedly mentions Migrations. With the galaxy in chaos (little c!) that could be a trigger for them to show up in larger numbers. Especially if their background explains it was only regular Imperial oppression that kept them more or less in check.
Were getting off topic but id like chaos xenos. But not enslaver. That would be a very boring army
There are several sectors bottled up by the imperium because whatever is in there is too hard to eradicate. As Overread says, the disruption could be used to allow one of these to break free. These beasties also tend to be at the Cthulhu end of the cosmic horror scale, so fun couldbehad there. Something with no guns whatsoever, but just causes their opponents to turn on themselves or implode with terror. Bring back decent psychology. Although that orally goes against the current game mechanics ethos of minimising interference with opponents stuff.
What about something like the RakGol? They are in the fluff, are an established race, have a decent tech level, and aren't exactly humanoid. Bonus points for being larger than a Custodes.
cuda1179 wrote: What about something like the RakGol? They are in the fluff, are an established race, have a decent tech level, and aren't exactly humanoid. Bonus points for being larger than a Custodes.
Yeah, they are meant to be a huge threat. One of the reasons why the Ghoul Stars (I think they are from there? Pretty sure the Outsider is still locked away there too, if the Nids are avoiding it) is under quarantine.
What I would want is some sort of mercenaries book that would have all sort of units for things that are not big enough to be full factions, such as tarellians etc, and then you could ally those into other forces. (And perhaps if some of them were really popular, they could be expanded into a full faction later.) Basically like Imperial Agents. But given how they neglect those as well, making more in the same style is unlikely.
Yeah, they are meant to be a huge threat. One of the reasons why the Ghoul Stars (I think they are from there? Pretty sure the Outsider is still locked away there too, if the Nids are avoiding it) is under quarantine.
They're from the region of Halo Stars north of the Koronus Sector (edit: actually just from Koronus). Ghoul Stars lie north-east of the Ultima Segmentum.
Outsider's presumed location is on the other side of the galaxy.
I don't much care for the Rak'Gol. Tyranids with guns aren't that interesting visually. Hexalimbic bats with guns on the other hand...
I once pined for the space versions of Warhammer races that were cut from 40k or never made the cut, but they're all available from other publishers now so I'm good (space Skaven from Mantic, space Slann from Diehard, and even space Lizardmen from One Page Rules - soon to be available in PVC.)
That said, I'm always down for more xenos, the more xenoey the better.
One way to mitigate the "where they been all this time?" issue would be to set them during the Scouring era and say that they weren't wiped out yet, but if they're cool and different enough, I'm not really all that bothered by how they'd make them fit any timeline. I always thought the early Compliance era would be a gold mine for interesting xenos encounters, too. Go back in time early enough and pretty much anything goes.
Also agree that Enslavers and Hrud both have great designs, but right now they seem like things that might get a one-off figure in a Blackstone-style limited release boardgame or as a bit of flavor for a Necromunda squad (like the Zoat or Piscean.)
Overread wrote: If that were true where the heck are the Eldar Exodites that they've been teasing for 30odd years
They didnt (to my knowledge) remove exodites from the game, they've only ever been a lore bit, at least as far as I can remember for my 23 or so years in this hobby. Even if they did, that was well before the current business model was established and in place so the model of manufacturing demand from outrage over misplaced nostalgia won't exactly work there.
That being said, Im in the pro-Exodite camp.
Exodites had rules in the 2nd ed Eldar Codex as well as Epic.
His Master's Voice wrote: Exodites are just a smidge below Custodes on the "how stupid it would be for this fringe element of the setting to get a codex" scale.
They're all but confirmed, I guess.
I mean not that daft. Exodites have multiple planets on the fringe of the Galaxy. They are basically in the same spot as Tau in that they are in a region the Imperium has little control over. A short bit of them gearing up for war; shifting from hiding to active engagement and so forth. Heck the Yinnari storyline leads into this really well as that whole angle is basically younger Eldar pushing for a restoration of their glory instead of hiding away.
Custodes are more niche as they are a super elite tiny force activly prevented in lore from growing their already tiny numbers (at the galactic scale).
His Master's Voice wrote: Exodites are just a smidge below Custodes on the "how stupid it would be for this fringe element of the setting to get a codex" scale.
They're all but confirmed, I guess.
I mean not that daft. Exodites have multiple planets on the fringe of the Galaxy. They are basically in the same spot as Tau in that they are in a region the Imperium has little control over. A short bit of them gearing up for war; shifting from hiding to active engagement and so forth. Heck the Yinnari storyline leads into this really well as that whole angle is basically younger Eldar pushing for a restoration of their glory instead of hiding away.
Custodes are more niche as they are a super elite tiny force activly prevented in lore from growing their already tiny numbers (at the galactic scale).
To add to this: Exodites are also part of the Eldar webway system. If they want to go to war halfway across the galaxy, they can. And if they want to go someplace there is not a convenient gate, are part of a larger faction and could hitch a ride with a craftworld/corsair fleet. It’s far easier to write them into the narrative then Tau, who are small, localized, and limited by crappy FTL tech.
Yeah getting Exodites into battle isn't a problem and the lore advancing to a faction of them going on the offensive is super easy to cover. Or even do it the other way around.
The Imperium decides to setup boarder staging sites to protect against more Tyranid Hive Fleets and thus starts focusing on the Rim; starts attacking Exodites worlds and before you know if you've got a major war going on over them.
Chaos comes for some Fun; a Necron Tomb World wakes up; a Hive Fleet does appear; Orks are about for a good scrap; other Eldar heed the call and come to aid; Tau have another happy accident etc...
Background can be adjusted for them be always out to fight
But in general, if the Palace Guard that is low in numbers and supposed to be on Earth only, can become a playable faction with its own book
Really anything can become its own new faction.
Like the last 100 survives of an extinct species from the great crusade that just woke up from stasis would be a perfectly fine 40k faction with its own book and not any different to Custodes
If/when custodes appear in LI it will be amusing to think there will be people who will have collections larger than the actual lore number of Custodes
I can confirm the WE special rule is the same as in the current Codex. I expect the WE Defiler to also have BS4+ and Rapid Fire to pretty much all of its ranged weapons.
It would still be incredibly nasty, especially given its melee profiles. That thing is quite nasty !
Custodes are more niche as they are a super elite tiny force activly prevented in lore from growing their already tiny numbers (at the galactic scale).
Are Custodes really that bad though? There are supposed to be 10,000 of them. Isn't that 10 times the size of any specific Marine chapter? We don't hear complaints about Grey Knights or Blood Angel chapters.
Back in the day when we got previews like this, or really good leaks, I used to shake out my bits box, find the old model on ebay ( often discounted) and make it in the new weapons configurations. It used to piss this one guy off, which made me want to do it more. Same guy mashed his teeth when I walked into the store with a WWI tank converted into a Landraider about 5 days after it happened in an episode of Turn Signals on a Land Raider.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Not an expert, but I thought they looked quite hitty, Spesh when you factor in the MW on the charge. Not seeing a limit on what they can rugby tackle?
They have 6 WS 3+ sweep attacks. That's only three dead GEQ per Mutilator, or not even one dead MEQ.
4 WS 3+ strike attacks. Two dead MEQ or close to one dead TEQ.
2 WS 3+ smash attacks. A little shy of one damage roll against a T7 to T11 3+ Profile (like a Knight), and barely over half a damage roll against a Land Raider per Mutilator.
I'd probably make it 9/6/3 attacks.
Obviously if well-priced, they'll be good even with 6/4/2 attacks, but I'd like to see them a bit deadlier, especially compared to their shooty counterparts.
Wholly depending on price, but they look plenty strong as it is. With their pacts up, they will do 11.5 damage to a Rogal Dorn (which is a tough target). They are slower than Exalted Eightbound but vastly tougher, and their speed is most likely going to be mitigated with Rapid Ingress.
Compare them to Assault Centurions. Mutilators are not at all weak.
cuda1179 wrote: Back in the day when we got previews like this, or really good leaks, I used to shake out my bits box, find the old model on ebay ( often discounted) and make it in the new weapons configurations. It used to piss this one guy off, which made me want to do it more. Same guy mashed his teeth when I walked into the store with a WWI tank converted into a Landraider about 5 days after it happened in an episode of Turn Signals on a Land Raider.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: What are people’s thoughts on the Mutilator rules? I appreciate it might be difficult given we don’t know points.
They should have more attacks, methinks.
I think they have exactly the right amount, and giving them more is an example of what's wrong with modern 40k. I hope we see more units in this kind of range in 11th, rather than 3 guys dishing out almost 30 attacks between them. They've got a pretty small Rapid Ingress footprint and the re-roll charges with a 5" move should get them the charge into a target a decent amount of the time from RI.
