lol!

They actually made a webpage for that url.
horushearsay.com

That's pretty funny.

 Da Boss wrote:
They actually made a webpage for that url.
horushearsay.com

That's pretty funny.

Yes, suspect it's a mix of truth and made up stuff i.e. 18 sided dice is not actually possible, green plastic and Salamanders are definitely possible, I'd be surprised at push fit models but who knows...

Im pretty sure its mostly a troll, i expect a major new release but not convinced its a whole new edition and theyre just having a go at us

Salamanders vs Iron Warriors, new edition, New Dread type.

All seems consistent with what we knew was coming from Valrak

I have a feeling that all of that stuff is deliberately misleading and rumour-like.

The sprues are real but won't actually be green/push-fit, the saturnine dread will exist but the picture is some other unit like a mechanicum robot, and the D18 is photoshopped while the box comes with a D12 / D20 or whatever.

They're having a bit of fun over the long-running rumours.

Vorian wrote:
Salamanders vs Iron Warriors, new edition, New Dread type.

All seems consistent with what we knew was coming from Valrak

And plastic MKII?

Someone on B&C pointed out that the sprue shown is from the Flawless Blades:



They're definitely having fun with this.

 xttz wrote:
I have a feeling that all of that stuff is deliberately misleading and rumour-like.

The sprues are real but won't actually be green/push-fit, the saturnine dread will exist but the picture is some other unit like a mechanicum robot, and the D18 is photoshopped while the box comes with a D12 / D20 or whatever.

They're having a bit of fun over the long-running rumours.

They played this so masterfully that it could.go in any direction.

The video has so many little trolls in it. 24/06, painting hazard stripes, Imperial Armour Volume 1 2nd edition

Website shared above isn’t working?

Apologies, I forgot the "the"!
https://thehorushearsay.com/

Oh man, I wish they were actually so efficient and quick at releasing rules that are not garbage, fixing the garbage rules should anything slip through and overall supporting the system.
But, apparently, all they can do with SGs is just release it, milk as much money as possible and then forget about it for the next 3 or so years when they can milk it more with new books and say "look guys, we care, we are the nu-gw"

GrosseSax wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Salamanders vs Iron Warriors, new edition, New Dread type.

All seems consistent with what we knew was coming from Valrak

And plastic MKII?

Shhh, mentioning that is now verboten, just like we're not supposed to bring up plastic MK5 anymore. Everything Valrak says is coming that happens is evidence of his oracular nature, everything he says that doesn't happen was never said - afterall, if it was going to happen, he'd have said it right? And since it didn't, he can't have. Stands to reason, QED.

Oh and three weeks isn't even close to the longest we've gone without a Heresy Thursday, so I'm not sure why people are reading so much into that.

EDIT: Oh and before anyone tries to imply GW wouldn't go to this much effort to troll people online listening to rumours - I trust you're enjoying your Aeronautica Imperialis scale plastic Thunderhawks...

Well that's just cruel.

 CragHack wrote:
Oh man, I wish they were actually so efficient and quick at releasing rules that are not garbage, fixing the garbage rules should anything slip through and overall supporting the system.
But, apparently, all they can do with SGs is just release it, milk as much money as possible and then forget about it for the next 3 or so years when they can milk it more with new books and say "look guys, we care, we are the nu-gw"

Oddly there's plenty of people out there that would prefer HH to remain exactly as is and would consider a 1 page faq 3 years later as "enough" as they hate the competitive patch cycle.

And we still don’t have enough to say there’s definitely a new edition coming.

I think we can say something is coming. But we don’t yet have enough to rule out my speculation this is a Necromunda style updated rulebook with all FAQ and Errata in the book, and a stack of shiny new models to boot.

I will grant we’ve now far more evidence it is a whole new edition - but it’s not yet conclusive.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And we still don’t have enough to say there’s definitely a new edition coming.

I think we can say something is coming. But we don’t yet have enough to rule out my speculation this is a Necromunda style updated rulebook with all FAQ and Errata in the book, and a stack of shiny new models to boot.

I will grant we’ve now far more evidence it is a whole new edition - but it’s not yet conclusive.

Even your speculation could easily be branded a new edition tbh.

Not if it leaves the existing army book things compatible.

But I agree it’s largely semantic there.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not if it leaves the existing army book things compatible.

But I agree it’s largely semantic there.

Plenty of historic precedent for editions not invalidating established books however.

Dudeface wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Oh man, I wish they were actually so efficient and quick at releasing rules that are not garbage, fixing the garbage rules should anything slip through and overall supporting the system.
But, apparently, all they can do with SGs is just release it, milk as much money as possible and then forget about it for the next 3 or so years when they can milk it more with new books and say "look guys, we care, we are the nu-gw"

Oddly there's plenty of people out there that would prefer HH to remain exactly as is and would consider a 1 page faq 3 years later as "enough" as they hate the competitive patch cycle.

I suppose many of those people own a competitive crème de la crème army and don't want to see it rightfully nerfed. As a Mechanicum player such a faq surely isn't enough to fix the Liber Mechanicum.

Tavis75 wrote:
Yes, suspect it's a mix of truth and made up stuff i.e. 18 sided dice is not actually possible, green plastic and Salamanders are definitely possible, I'd be surprised at push fit models but who knows...

https://www.thediceshoponline.com/specialist-dice/d18-specialist-dice.html

I’m not gonna read too much into the silliness for now. Just enjoy the joke whilst it is a joke.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Oh man, I wish they were actually so efficient and quick at releasing rules that are not garbage, fixing the garbage rules should anything slip through and overall supporting the system.
But, apparently, all they can do with SGs is just release it, milk as much money as possible and then forget about it for the next 3 or so years when they can milk it more with new books and say "look guys, we care, we are the nu-gw"

Oddly there's plenty of people out there that would prefer HH to remain exactly as is and would consider a 1 page faq 3 years later as "enough" as they hate the competitive patch cycle.

I suppose many of those people own a competitive crème de la crème army and don't want to see it rightfully nerfed. As a Mechanicum player such a faq surely isn't enough to fix the Liber Mechanicum.

Just as long as they get rid of the Dreadnought Ancients Army, I'll be happy.

No way! Don’t take my Dreadnoughts away! There’s better ways to tone it down.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
No way! Don’t take my Dreadnoughts away! There’s better ways to tone it down.

Dreadnoughts should not be better than Knights!

Begone, foul mecha !

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
No way! Don’t take my Dreadnoughts away! There’s better ways to tone it down.

Yeah, the core issue for that RoW is how good Contemptors are to begin with. Tone them down and that RoW is basically like facing Knights and all the Armigers they have to field but without bigs to back them up.

I feel like dropping Dreads to a 3+ save would go a good way to making them more palatable.

Maybe the HQ version could keep a 2+.

Do frames have (presumably) "Copyright Warhammer 2025" on them now? Is Games Workshop changing its name to Warhammer?!

 mattl wrote:
Do frames have (presumably) "Copyright Warhammer 2025" on them now? Is Games Workshop changing its name to Warhammer?!

Yup, they have been like that from at least the start of the year. First one I noticed it on, and the embossed Warhammer logo, was the new Krieg release.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
No way! Don’t take my Dreadnoughts away! There’s better ways to tone it down.

Yeah, the core issue for that RoW is how good Contemptors are to begin with. Tone them down and that RoW is basically like facing Knights and all the Armigers they have to field but without bigs to back them up.

Nerfing Dreads needs to happen. Also, limitting 1 auspex scanner reaction for fliers does as well. As is, Fliers are pretty much DOA in Horus Heresy. I saw 4 fliers from opponents during my AdeptiCon weekend, and I killed all 4 when they deployed. *kisses auspex scanner models*

 mattl wrote:
Do frames have (presumably) "Copyright Warhammer 2025" on them now? Is Games Workshop changing its name to Warhammer?!

Considering its literally a photo of the ECs Flawless Blades sprue thats been recolored green?

Yes.

 kronk wrote:


Nerfing Dreads needs to happen. Also, limitting 1 auspex scanner reaction for fliers does as well. As is, Fliers are pretty much DOA in Horus Heresy. I saw 4 fliers from opponents during my AdeptiCon weekend, and I killed all 4 when they deployed. *kisses auspex scanner models*

Honestly, the contemptor just needs points changes. It should be 25-35 more expensive to begin with. After that the weapons need a bit of a balance pass with regards to their points. 20 points for a two shot lascannon, 10 points for a 3 shot autocannon with TL, 15 pts for an assault cannon... but only 5 points for a two shot 24 inch melta gun?! That should be at least 10-15 points.

Those two changes would be enough to curtail a lot of their excesses.

With regards to knights, they just need buffs. It makes no sense that a knight is the same WS as the least competent space marine.

Flyers are caught in the vehicle can of worms; it's not that they're too fragile, it's that they're too fragile for their points. A kitted fire raptor went up like 60-80pts this addition. Storm Eagles are about 20-30 points more expensive, and I think the Caestus is almost 100 points more costly?! Yet they're all easier to kill due to reactions, access to sky-fire, and vehicle damage changes.Flyers, and most vehicles, need a points cut.

That aside, flyers benefit from spam. One is a suicide bomb, but a Wrath of Angels RoW with 2 fire raptors, a caestus, 2 xiphons, and some storm eagles can survive to deploy and swiftly annihilate the units that threaten it.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:

 mattl wrote:
Do frames have (presumably) "Copyright Warhammer 2025" on them now? Is Games Workshop changing its name to Warhammer?!

Yup, they have been like that from at least the start of the year. First one I noticed it on, and the embossed Warhammer logo, was the new Krieg release.

Yeah GW has been steadily rebranding into Warhammer for a while now. It's not a daft idea, Warhammer is really well known and enough of a household name compared to Games Workshop.
Heck who knows perhaps GW are doing a long term plan to dip into other game markets so Games Workshop will end up more like Hasbro - a giant that has multiple subsidiary brands underneath with Warhammer being one of their big core ones.

Games Workshop has already started its Alphabet-isation.

Warhammer, Black Library, Forge World, Warhammer+ are all sub brands underneath their umbrella.

I'm sure they have others. But yeah they're going for the Umbrella Company with differently branded wings strategy.

Certainly makes the Games Workshop name seem more important, as its brand comes with a huge range of assets.

GW's teasing confirms to me that there is a new edition coming - otherwise they wouldn't bother with all of this. I don't regard this as good news, because I don't have confidence in GW's ability to resist going overboard with unnecessary changes to the rules. But it looks as though it's time to strap in...

It would almost be worth starting a new HH rumours thread for this.

I'd still go with new box set level of release, not full new edition. The last few humorous teases like this were for things like plastic sisters, the Epic scale thunderhawk, and IIRC squats in necromunda

What could the d18 possibly be used for?

Unless it's a replacement for the d66 random charts...

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What could the d18 possibly be used for?

Unless it's a replacement for the d66 random charts...

I don't know. I thought that was a joke. Like the hazard stripe paint in the video. It has been noted that there were 18 legions in the Heresy (after discounting the 2 that were 'disappeared'), and the Salamanders were the 18th, so maybe it's a hint.

I see that the English version of the AoD boxed set is out of stock now.

I want to think they aren't so stupid they'd just make a whole new edition instead of a 2.5 big patch, but I know better.

Maybe the d18 is there to sell a new edition of How to Roll Citadel Dice?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Maybe the d18 is there to sell a new edition of How to Roll Citadel Dice?

I hope it comes with a... uh... whats the Horus Heresy version of a Primaris Lieutenant?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Maybe the d18 is there to sell a new edition of How to Roll Citadel Dice?

I hope it comes with a... uh... whats the Horus Heresy version of a Primaris Lieutenant?

One loyalist and one heretic Consul.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What could the d18 possibly be used for?

Unless it's a replacement for the d66 random charts...

Generating random numbers with a value between 1 and 18.

 Robert Facepalmer wrote:

Tavis75 wrote:
Yes, suspect it's a mix of truth and made up stuff i.e. 18 sided dice is not actually possible, green plastic and Salamanders are definitely possible, I'd be surprised at push fit models but who knows...

https://www.thediceshoponline.com/specialist-dice/d18-specialist-dice.html

I stand corrected, also, it looks like GW borrowed the image of the white dice from that page for their image! (Though could just be a coincidence)

GW making a fake rumour website is just obnoxious


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What could the d18 possibly be used for?

To decide which Legion you're playing, obviously

Effective though. Lots of attention, lots of conversation.

Looking at this image?



It’s not a direct match for the Leviathan model, as the kneecap is quite different.



Nor the Deredeo



But, it is of course concept type art, which could explain it. If anyone can find the matching art, please share it here, as I really don’t know if GW are pulling our chain with this specific image.

Does the art match any outstanding rumour images?

For that matter are there any outstanding rumour images that might be heresy/space marine related?

I don’t think so, no.

The new boxed set, whether new edition or not, is said to contain a new class of Dreadnought though.

But I just don’t know right now if this is a genuine tease of something chunky, or GW just having a laugh with that specific rumour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MOAR!!!!!

The Horus Hearsay wrote: Hearing flame templates are doubling in size. Must be to give the Sallies a big push as poster boys for the new edition. Fire change?

Bring me the HEAVY flamer!

Right, have at it.

The knee sketch is drawn without a knee pad

The Levi knee looks a lot like it naked, but the foot is more symmetrical

The -2- bit is definitely another fakeout

Seen people speculating that the pouch could be breacher charges. It sure does look like there's two distinct sets of round, explosive-like bulges in there.

And someone over on 4chan mocked this up as a potential Saturnine pauldron. Seems to be along the right track.

I was wondering that about the “shoulder pad” too.

I just don’t know how far the mick taking is going. The bit illustrated/speculated as a pauldron looks to be resin to my eyes. Which could just mean it’s a glimpse of the initial master.

The D18 is a Legion picker right?

And number 2 listed - 2nd Legion was one of the 'disappeared', so obviously that is one of them!

 Pacific wrote:
The D18 is a Legion picker right?

And number 2 listed - 2nd Legion was one of the 'disappeared', so obviously that is one of them!

If you roll a lost Legion, you automatically lose the game.

Admittedly I haven’t been following Heresy stuff for a while as I really don’t have time for Army level games, but maybe if they are hinting at colored frames and a new Dreadnought maybe this is a new boxed game like Battle of Calth with some new stuff in it?

Or maybe some sort of Skirmish/Small Scale Heresy game?

It would seem weird to have a specialist studio game being put on the rules refresh cycle that the major studio games get.


If it really is Iron Warriors vs Salamanders I would have a hard time not picking it up if only to paint because they are my favorite legions.

 Sabotage! wrote:
It would seem weird to have a specialist studio game being put on the rules refresh cycle that the major studio games get.

The main games are now on a 1 year cycle, stands to reason to up specialist games to 3 years.

Watch it be a new HH board game, like Betrayal at Calth.

All the rumoured details fit that paradigm much better; odd dice, random tokens, push-fit minis, themed forces in coloured plastic…

There's two sticky notes with dates in the shot, one for the day the video went up, the other for 24.6.

Any event we know of then?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
There's two sticky notes with dates in the shot, one for the day the video went up, the other for 24.6.

Any event we know of then?

Why yes - it's my birthday! It's also a Tuesday, between US Open dates (Dallas May 22nd – 25th & Tacoma July 17th – 20th) and I can't think of anything else around then.

Do GW make Mark 7 armor sets? I'm genuinely interested to use the new figures in older editions, so I'd like to cross hybridize some squads, ala older 40K tactical squad boxed sets.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Watch it be a new HH board game, like Betrayal at Calth.

All the rumoured details fit that paradigm much better; odd dice, random tokens, push-fit minis, themed forces in coloured plastic…

This would be awesome and might explain why we've not had support for Warhammer Quest in a long while.

Dudeface wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Oh man, I wish they were actually so efficient and quick at releasing rules that are not garbage, fixing the garbage rules should anything slip through and overall supporting the system.
But, apparently, all they can do with SGs is just release it, milk as much money as possible and then forget about it for the next 3 or so years when they can milk it more with new books and say "look guys, we care, we are the nu-gw"

Oddly there's plenty of people out there that would prefer HH to remain exactly as is and would consider a 1 page faq 3 years later as "enough" as they hate the competitive patch cycle.

I'm not asking for 40k patch cycle. Just one major patch to fix issues.

Speaking from Custodes perspective. 0 internal balance.
*Telemon is gak
*Sagittarum are gak.
*Coronus is gak.
*Aquilon - very limited use, can shine as allies with SoS, overshadowed by basic Guard in pure Custodes
*Agamatus - very limited use, can shine as allies with SoS, overshadowed by basic Guard in pure Custodes
*Shield dread - overshadowed by basic Guard
*Spear dread - ap3 lascannon? The only way to play it is throwing away the spear and using fists for 7 attacks on charge.
Tl'dr, the most efficient way to play Custodes at 2-3k points is just to take 40-60 Guardians.
*Let's not forget SoS rules that still don't have the models for them. Instead, we get a ton of SM characters.

Not to mention other gak, like return fire at full bs, look out sir, blasts being ap3 at best, etc.

D18 just simply can't be used for anything random. After they remove v1's Physic phase as being too random and then introducing D18 to generate anything? Hypocrisy.

I dont recall GW buying domain names just for a singular trolling purpose. Something significant is coming, and 24.6. might be the planned release/announcement date..

It's either a new edition or a new boxed game methinks

I bet there will be more hearsay on that site in the near future.. GW marketing trying something new for a change

those round pouches look interesting.. plastic Breachers inbound?

What was the original Valrak rumour?

Saturnyne Terminators
My II Armour
Couple of praetors
Older pattern dreadnought (Lucifer pattern perhaps?)

 zedmeister wrote:
What was the original Valrak rumour?

Saturnyne Terminators
My II Armour
Couple of praetors
Older pattern dreadnought (Lucifer pattern perhaps?)

And a gun emplacement

 zedmeister wrote:
What was the original Valrak rumour?

Saturnyne Terminators
My II Armour
Couple of praetors
Older pattern dreadnought (Lucifer pattern perhaps?)

He said the dread is Saturnine style too

Have we had an actual clear definition as to what "Saturnine" means to GW, in terms of armor, terms, dreads, etc.?

Because to me, it means those awesome M&M Terminators!

 Alpharius wrote:
Have we had an actual clear definition as to what "Saturnine" means to GW, in terms of armor, terms, dreads, etc.?

Because to me, it means those awesome M&M Terminators!

Nope. It was just mentioned as a pattern, not how it looks like.

I can't imagine if they are making Saturnine Terminators they will be the comically big shoulder pad ones, probably a new design all together. I just don't see current GW producing something that "silly" for 30k.

 Sabotage! wrote:
I can't imagine if they are making Saturnine Terminators they will be the comically big shoulder pad ones, probably a new design all together. I just don't see current GW producing something that "silly" for 30k.

I dunno. Deredo dreadnoughts look pretty funky and they still got a plastic kit. And the aesthetics of the Horus Heresy 2.0 series feels different compared to what the old FW models were, so something like Saturine would probably fit in.

We still need to wary of reading too much into this.

Of the first batch, we know the D18 and “Salamander” Sprues were Naughty Fibs. And the third we can’t be sure isn’t just them teasing us with long existing artwork for a long existing Dreadnought pattern.

Of the next batch? The assumed shoulder pad still looks like a rapid prototype version rather than plastic, like it’s slightly oily. The pouch could be anything. The token I think might be from Kill Team.

It’s like a game of Two Truths And A Lie. Not everything we’re being shown is necessarily true. Some of it could be outright fibs. Some of it could be misdirection. Some of it the barefaced truth.

Breachers and updated terminator patterns would be nice, but this box sounds more exiting and not just "ok, I just go and redo the units I already own".
Well played, GW.

(I will just assume Valraks rumors was right as usual, and that the basic content is confirmed)

Valrak just dropped a new video clarifying his rumors with more details:

Box will be a new edition starter box, painted Salamanders vs. Iron Warriors

1 MkII Centurion (painted Iron Warriors)

1 Saturnine Praetor (painted Salamanders)

1 Saturnine Dreadnought

1 Quad-Accelerator Platform (the previously mentioned new weapon emplacement)

2 squads of 3 Saturnine Terminators (no mention of different loadouts like last time)

40 MkII Marines

2 sets(upgrade sprues?) of Disintegrator Weapons

measuring sticks, templates, dice (6-sided and scatter)

plastic objective markers and stat counters

HH 3rd Edition rulebook, quick-start rules, and rules reference sheets

This could be Valrak covering his rear by updating the rumors post-Horus Hearsay such as the plastic objective markers (which GW teased a photo of).
Valrak also speculates that the pouch thing is part of the Disintegrator weapon upgrades so maybe it's spare Disintegrator Rifle ammo (which would make sense because there's no official model of a Disintegrator weapon outside of the anniversary marine iirc)

Well, if Valraks doubling down, I believe it.

I hate this if were on a 3 year churn cycle.

 Sabotage! wrote:
I can't imagine if they are making Saturnine Terminators they will be the comically big shoulder pad ones, probably a new design all together. I just don't see current GW producing something that "silly" for 30k.

Yeah, I'm skeptical on the saturnine termies since IIRC this is something Valrak has been saying since the very start of HH 2.0. I think they're just a fanboy for that weird old armor and want it to be true.

A new mark would be interesting, or 30k specific Indomitus, or even just some better scaled Cataphractii.

Y'know, I'd find it hilarious if this was all GW's way of hanging Valrak out to dry.

I have a horrible feeling that "Valrak" is a part of the GW marketing team.

If Valrak was a GW employee, it would have come out by now.

If this does end up being a new edition of HH, I will be massively disappointed. I've been holding off on any new HH projects and frankly, I don't have the time and effort to learn a new version anymore.

Doesn't necessarily needs him to be employed to be part of the marketing team

Are you counting people who make GW-centric content as part of this "marketing team"? Cos that's not how that works.

 kodos wrote:
Doesn't necessarily needs him to be employed to be part of the marketing team

It could just be a name created by GW that they use to "leak" information to the public.

No, no, Valrak is a YouTube person:

https://www.youtube.com/@ChapterMasterValrak

He is very much a real guy.

Hes a highly paid actor pretending to be "Valrak", clearly

Just some random guy who unknowingly got feed with material intented for him because rumours and leaks are better hype creators than official announcements

Valrak and James Workshop are in fact the same person...Darth Sidius style.

"Once morrrrre the Space Marines will rule the Meta!"

 kodos wrote:
Just some random guy who unknowingly got feed with material intented for him because rumours and leaks are better hype creators than official announcements

Or, like most Warhammer content creators (ugh hate that term), they have legit connections to people who work at GW by going to events, chatting to employees and being sort-of journalists (for toy soldiers exclusively that is). It's not some big conspiracy my dude, people who work at companies leak stuff all the time, intentionally or unintentionally.

I'm not going insane am I? Do people genuinely think that Valrak is one big psy-op by some shadowy cabal at GW? Please tell me people don't think that.

SamusDrake wrote:
Valrak and James Workshop are in fact the same person...Darth Sidius style.

"Once morrrrre the Space Marines will rule the Meta!"

Oh, no, it all makes sense now!

 Gert wrote:
Or, like most Warhammer content creators (ugh hate that term), they have legit connections to people who work at GW by going to events, chatting to employees and being sort-of journalists (for toy soldiers exclusively that is). It's not some big conspiracy my dude, people who work at companies leak stuff all the time, intentionally or unintentionally.

I'm not going insane am I? Do people genuinely think that Valrak is one big psy-op by some shadowy cabal at GW? Please tell me people don't think that.

It's never failed to amuse me that national governments & security agencies have publicly had some of their darkest secrets stolen, but some still find it unrealistic that a British toy company fails to have perfect secrecy in their global supply chain with hundreds of staff.

Not going to comment on this extremely daft rumour legitimacy conversation.

However, if the Mk II armour and the rogue trader style dread and termies (saturnine lol) rumour is right - is the idea that they're doing a focus on early days of the Heresy this addition?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

Oh, no, it all makes sense now!

"It was supposed to be the best edition of 40K ever! Warcom said it would bring balance to the game - not lead it to FAQs and Errata on day one!"

 Olthannon wrote:
Not going to comment on this extremely daft rumour legitimacy conversation.

However, if the Mk II armour and the rogue trader style dread and termies (saturnine lol) rumour is right - is the idea that they're doing a focus on early days of the Heresy this addition?

Oh god, I wish. Hell, go a step further and do Great Crusade.

Given they're still pushing out daemon Primarchs, I doubt even if the box is Isstvan themed that it's going to mark a shift to early heresy. More likely they just zip around doing different supplements while studiously avoiding Terra

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
Not going to comment on this extremely daft rumour legitimacy conversation.

However, if the Mk II armour and the rogue trader style dread and termies (saturnine lol) rumour is right - is the idea that they're doing a focus on early days of the Heresy this addition?

Oh god, I wish. Hell, go a step further and do Great Crusade.

Won't they need to change the name of the game?

I think the Great Crusade could make one hell of an expansion... unfortunately I doubt we'll ever see it as we would need rules for foul xenos to fight.

 Gert wrote:
If Valrak was a GW employee, it would have come out by now.

If this does end up being a new edition of HH, I will be massively disappointed. I've been holding off on any new HH projects and frankly, I don't have the time and effort to learn a new version anymore.

So, stick to 2.0. Personally, not buying MORE BOOKS for a new edition, myself. If gw refuses to do a balance pass for 2.0, I'll just use Panoptica rules. And yeah, I know that you have to convince others to do that.

Honestly? I don't think I will need to convince anyone in my group at this point. We're all at the point where we're lucky to get a game a month at this rate.
A new edition just isn't on the cards anymore.

 Gert wrote:
Honestly? I don't think I will need to convince anyone in my group at this point. We're all at the point where we're lucky to get a game a month at this rate.
A new edition just isn't on the cards anymore.

Cool. Happy travels, Gert.

And I hope that you start getting more games in.

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:

 mattl wrote:
Do frames have (presumably) "Copyright Warhammer 2025" on them now? Is Games Workshop changing its name to Warhammer?!

Yup, they have been like that from at least the start of the year. First one I noticed it on, and the embossed Warhammer logo, was the new Krieg release.

Hmm... I wonder how they're going to do this. Change the company name, or just set up Warhammer Ltd?

 Gert wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Just some random guy who unknowingly got feed with material intented for him because rumours and leaks are better hype creators than official announcements

Or, like most Warhammer content creators (ugh hate that term), they have legit connections to people who work at GW by going to events, chatting to employees and being sort-of journalists (for toy soldiers exclusively that is). It's not some big conspiracy my dude, people who work at companies leak stuff all the time, intentionally or unintentionally.

I'm not going insane am I? Do people genuinely think that Valrak is one big psy-op by some shadowy cabal at GW? Please tell me people don't think that.

Well, GW has their ways of people caught who leak confidential information over time and we had reliable rumours in the past.
GW knows about him and there is a good chance they know where he gets his information from and that he still gets information would imply that GW is ok with it or his contact is allowed to give him certain information

This isn't a journalist interviewing factory workers to try to find out what shady things are going on
Yes he has contacts snd yes he can talk to people on cons or shops.
But the information you would get is what they are allowed to say

Big companies don't inform their personal about everything, and for GW even the different codex designers don't know what the others are working on.

There is no conspiracy here or big psy ops, simply that by now most of the leaks or rumours regarding GW products are intentionally spread by GW or released with their allowance

Do people still think Valrak having a secret source that got unnoticed by GW for years and every time Valrak makes a video about that the management curses him for being such a good journalist to uncover things that should have been hidden?

Bit hazy on what models Valrak suggested for the boxed set. Did he mention any vehicles?

SamusDrake wrote:
Bit hazy on what models Valrak suggested for the boxed set. Did he mention any vehicles?

As of his latest video, it's:
1x Saturnine Praetor
1x Mark II Centurion
1x Saturnine Dreadnought
1x Quad Accelerator Platform (Artillery)
6x Saturnine Terminators (2x3)
40x Mark II Tactical Marines
'Two sets of disintegrator weapons'

Along with tokens, objectives, rulebook, etc

Really hope that "Elite unit of 3" bullgak doesn't catch on with Heresy.

Looks like a slightly worse deal than the Age of Darkness set, right? That one got you a big tank, 10 terminators, a dreadnaught and a similar number of marines and heroes?

But perhaps the new starter will be cheaper.

Oh, I see.

I'd really like this to be a board game, but both a Dreadnought and a big cannon thingy sounds a bit heavy for that. Unless the platform is a Rapier?

 Da Boss wrote:
Looks like a slightly worse deal than the Age of Darkness set, right? That one got you a big tank, 10 terminators, a dreadnaught and a similar number of marines and heroes?

But perhaps the new starter will be cheaper.

I'd guess the same price, put marginally less stuff in rather than apply 3 years of price hikes to the starter product.

 Da Boss wrote:
Looks like a slightly worse deal than the Age of Darkness set, right? That one got you a big tank, 10 terminators, a dreadnaught and a similar number of marines and heroes?

But perhaps the new starter will be cheaper.

6 terminators instead of 10 (slight downgrade) and field gun instead of tank (big downgrade), but with inflation, and the fact that it's such a huge box (making those two downgrades less significant in context) I'd be very happy if this is the same price as the original set. I think that box was in the top 10 value all timers for GW, I bought 3 of them.

Remember, it's 4chan, but who knows?

One big splash release then three smaller permanent sets, just like last time : )

 Snrub wrote:
Really hope that "Elite unit of 3" bullgak doesn't catch on with Heresy.

Several elite infantry squads start with 3 models (command squads, Custodes, Myrmidons, Thallax), so it wouldn't be something new.

I’m still not believing anything right know.

For instance, the 4chan rumour. And in terms of the teases, Valrak seems to be seeing what he wants to be there, and not what’s actually there.

The shoulder pad? We don’t know what it actually is, but it’s now apparently absolute confirmation it’s Saturnine Terminators Confirmed.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m still not believing anything right know.

For instance, the 4chan rumour. And in terms of the teases, Valrak seems to be seeing what he wants to be there, and not what’s actually there.

The shoulder pad? We don’t know what it actually is, but it’s now apparently absolute confirmation it’s Saturnine Terminators Confirmed.

I think he's just on abit of a high given he's sort of been almost singularly pseudo-campaigned by GW.

What does that even mean? Are we back to "Valrak is secretly a GW plant"?

He's cornered a niche in the "content creation" market in that he seems to be the only "positive" click bait channel out there.

All power to him for not caving and jumping on the bandwagon of GW hate for clicks but it doesn't mean he's the companies chosen messenger.

 Gert wrote:
What does that even mean? Are we back to "Valrak is secretly a GW plant"?

He's cornered a niche in the "content creation" market in that he seems to be the only "positive" click bait channel out there.

All power to him for not caving and jumping on the bandwagon of GW hate for clicks but it doesn't mean he's the companies chosen messenger.

I'm more convinced he's an honest guy and people have genuinely reached out to him with inside info over the years. However I'm not entirely sure some of those contacts aren't allowed/told to give certain bits.

 Snrub wrote:
Really hope that "Elite unit of 3" bullgak doesn't catch on with Heresy.

Its been a thing in Heresy for a while. Thallax, Ursurax, Aquilom terminators, etc come to mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RazorEdge wrote:
Remember, it's 4chan, but who knows?

This is basically the exact rumor that was out before 2.0

Now I remember, there was indeed a similary rumor for 2.0

with the smallest Set was just 2x Tactical Line Squads annnnnnnnnnd a Rulebook...

which was also featured on Valraks YT channel..

I think the "3 sets" bit was my favourite part.
The mental gymnastics people went through to say it was real and that each level would be a whole different set of rules that would build up to the main rulebook, thereby defeating the purpose of those starter sets in the first place.
And that GW would sell a starter set of 20 Tacticals and a rulebook for less than the planned box of 20 Tacticals.

RazorEdge wrote:
Now I remember, there was indeed a similary rumor for 2.0

with the smallest Set was just 2x Tactical Line Squads annnnnnnnnnd a Rulebook...

which was also featured on Valraks YT channel..

Just for record keeping have you got a link to said video? Might be an interesting contrast and compare.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:
I think the "3 sets" bit was my favourite part.
The mental gymnastics people went through to say it was real and that each level would be a whole different set of rules that would build up to the main rulebook, thereby defeating the purpose of those starter sets in the first place.
And that GW would sell a starter set of 20 Tacticals and a rulebook for less than the planned box of 20 Tacticals.

I do remember that. My personal wishlist for 3 is a lower barrier to entry with a smaller game size supported and an appropriate matching starter product.

Dryaktylus wrote:Several elite infantry squads start with 3 models (command squads, Custodes, Myrmidons, Thallax), so it wouldn't be something new.

chaos0xomega wrote:Its been a thing in Heresy for a while. Thallax, Ursurax, Aquilom terminators, etc come to mind.

I was more thinking of kits/units along the lines of the Flawless Blades, Eightbound, new Sanguinary Guard, Inner Circle Companions, etc. Kits that in would normally have been units of 5, now pared down to 3. And for what real reason?

That being said, point taken.

 Gert wrote:
What does that even mean? Are we back to "Valrak is secretly a GW plant"?

He's cornered a niche in the "content creation" market in that he seems to be the only "positive" click bait channel out there.

All power to him for not caving and jumping on the bandwagon of GW hate for clicks but it doesn't mean he's the companies chosen messenger.

GW making the effort to do a new site with regular updates dedicated to his rumors. That kind of response must be a pretty big moment in any rumor mongers life.

It seems pretty unlikely, but I would be pretty happy if GW did smaller starter sets for Heresy and also made smaller point games more viable.

I much prefer the Heresy Era to 40k (and the rules), but don't really have the time for painting 3k points of minis, regular access to a 6' x 4' table, much less organizing and playing games that take 4+ hours with set up.

If there was a way to play a skirmish game or 1k points and have a satisfying experience I would be pretty excited.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Have we had an actual clear definition as to what "Saturnine" means to GW, in terms of armor, terms, dreads, etc.?

Because to me, it means those awesome M&M Terminators!

Nope. It was just mentioned as a pattern, not how it looks like.

To top it off, the armor that everyone identifies as "Saturnine" has received an official artwork piece in which it's labeled as a prototype armor used by Salamanders, further reinforced by a description matching it in the short story Deeds Endure, including the shoulder pads and various heavy weapons.

We do have a mention of Saturnine armor in one of the old FW books in which it's stated to be functionally no different than Indominus and Tartaros, which very heavily suggests that the big armor with a heavy weapon on top is not Saturnine.

The argument against the starter set format for HH like 40k or AoS was last time and still now that you could use everything in the box in one army. This would undermine a lot of the value of starter sets to GW. Namely you get two armies which either gets two people into the hobby or leaves one person with the nucleus of another army (Or even two) they have lying around lowering the activation energy to starting another. (I image the Combat Patrol magazine is actually helping to trigger this too) The HH crowd already skews older with established armies as it is, no need to push new players deeper in that direction when 40k is so profitable.

GW decided instead to offer a lot of value but a hefty price for a giant army box of "two" armies instead. So even if you decide the game isn't for you or the whole thing becomes another entry in your pile of shame, they still got a nice chunk of change from it.

HH does now have hefty plastic support for two non-marine armies in the Mechanicum and Solar Auxilia though. So you could do something with that in the starter set against a marine army.

But if GW does decide to do 3 marine v marine starter sets in the same price and value range as 40k I'd be surprised.

But then there is a seemingly large community of people who experience 40k first and only through "loretubers" and the novels who tend to gravitate towards the HH novels (All conveniently in audiobook format) I think this is a largely new and very American audience (A much less saturated market than Europe, it's the place GW want to expand into, see also merging with the ITC) GW might decide to try to get more of a chunk through the HH game and maybe a smaller cheaper starter set option for the HH is the first step rather than the existing "all in" boxes, no matter their value they aren't amenable to people trying to dip their toe and looking at the internet it seems a large cohort of non-hobbyist fans of the HH exist. I actually think these people are almost a different audience and "fandom" being obsessed with the characters and narratives compared to the older hobbyists who first experienced and understood the context of 40k as wargame setting and who enjoy the setting style background. You can't tell me GW wasn't trying to cater to the former group when they woke Guilliman and the Lion up.

Also as others have suggested, they could expand the HH game setting to also include the Great Crusade and thus open things up to Xenos. Doesn't look like they're doing it but down the line it could allow them to be able to make more interesting traditional starter sets. As we know "the new stuff must flow", new kits no matter if they are better or worse both for the hype and simply because new stuff has an unsaturated market. Even if GW run out of good ideas for new Orks, they could make HH Orks with different weapon options etc like the Solar. An Ullanor Crusade campaign with more and differently fleshed out Orks might be interesting. In a way it'd just add to the classic vibes, Orks v Marines.

 Sabotage! wrote:
It seems pretty unlikely, but I would be pretty happy if GW did smaller starter sets for Heresy

They already do:

Smaller Heresy Starter Set 1
Smaller Heresy Starter Set 2

NightReconnaissance wrote:
...

You don't have to debunk it, it's fake, we all know it's fake, it's the same fake rumour as last time (which turned out to be fake).

 Fayric wrote:
GW making the effort to do a new site with regular updates dedicated to his rumors. That kind of response must be a pretty big moment in any rumor mongers life.

But they're not just the rumours that Valrak has been getting; they've been floating around from a bunch of places for the last year or so. None of this means he's a GW plant or working with the company, which is what people in this thread have been saying.

When GW did the website for 10th Ed launch, nobody was having the same reaction despite Valrak doing rumours about 10th.

I really don't get why people are focusing on him being some secret GW employee that gets all the leaks.

 Gert wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
GW making the effort to do a new site with regular updates dedicated to his rumors. That kind of response must be a pretty big moment in any rumor mongers life.

But they're not just the rumours that Valrak has been getting; they've been floating around from a bunch of places for the last year or so. None of this means he's a GW plant or working with the company, which is what people in this thread have been saying.

When GW did the website for 10th Ed launch, nobody was having the same reaction despite Valrak doing rumours about 10th.

I really don't get why people are focusing on him being some secret GW employee that gets all the leaks.

Because it's weird that one person gets so much info so early and so accurately. It can be explained but some people clearly feel it improbable enough that it requires a further explanation out of the mundane.

Tbh im pretty sure that the HH3.0 rumors did not start w Valrak, iirc they were floating around for a bit from other sources and then he also started sharing the same - Saturnine and all

Dudeface wrote:
Because it's weird that one person gets so much info so early and so accurately. It can be explained but some people clearly feel it improbable enough that it requires a further explanation out of the mundane.

I would hardly call it "accurate" when:

A - He's been going on about a new HH edition for like a year, claiming every single event preview would show it (then it didn't).

B - We have 0 confirmation on any of the rumours being true at all. All anyone is doing is foaming at the mouth because of a rounded pouch and a joke video making fun of people for claiming that HH3 has been coming for (once again for the people in the back) an entire year.

If you all cast your mind back, the first major claim for all of this was that there would be a new HH edition because the transfer sheet in the Command Squad box had Salamander and Iron Warrior transfers. We're almost a year later now, and still no new edition BTW.

We also still haven't really seen the "tanks" part of the last hh roadmap. Mechanicum got 2 tank kits but neither other faction has despite a number of gaps in their tank lines

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
We also still haven't really seen the "tanks" part of the last hh roadmap. Mechanicum got 2 tank kits but neither other faction has despite a number of gaps in their tank lines

Or they are cost probitive. Most of the models for HH Custodes are resin.

 Gert wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Because it's weird that one person gets so much info so early and so accurately. It can be explained but some people clearly feel it improbable enough that it requires a further explanation out of the mundane.

I would hardly call it "accurate" when:

A - He's been going on about a new HH edition for like a year, claiming every single event preview would show it (then it didn't).

B - We have 0 confirmation on any of the rumours being true at all. All anyone is doing is foaming at the mouth because of a rounded pouch and a joke video making fun of people for claiming that HH3 has been coming for (once again for the people in the back) an entire year.

If you all cast your mind back, the first major claim for all of this was that there would be a new HH edition because the transfer sheet in the Command Squad box had Salamander and Iron Warrior transfers. We're almost a year later now, and still no new edition BTW.

The only reason I'm in the 'new edition incoming' camp is because I have a really hard time buying into the idea that GW would put this much effort into an extended troll job.

Although, I was quite impressed with the effort they put into the life-sized Tactical Rock...

Dudeface wrote:

 Gert wrote:

 Fayric wrote:
GW making the effort to do a new site with regular updates dedicated to his rumors. That kind of response must be a pretty big moment in any rumor mongers life.

But they're not just the rumours that Valrak has been getting; they've been floating around from a bunch of places for the last year or so. None of this means he's a GW plant or working with the company, which is what people in this thread have been saying.

When GW did the website for 10th Ed launch, nobody was having the same reaction despite Valrak doing rumours about 10th.

I really don't get why people are focusing on him being some secret GW employee that gets all the leaks.

Because it's weird that one person gets so much info so early and so accurately. It can be explained but some people clearly feel it improbable enough that it requires a further explanation out of the mundane.

People that don't watch him, like myself, also probably don't realise how popular the channel is. I was surprised to learn he's in the top 20 UK superchatted channels for YT livestreams. Much of this will come from the leaks I imagine but it's a reinforcement loop, more leaks mean more popularity, more popularity means more leaks.
https://playboard.co/en/youtube-ranking/most-superchatted-all-channels-in-united-kingdom-yearly (was top 10 last year).

 Gert wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Because it's weird that one person gets so much info so early and so accurately. It can be explained but some people clearly feel it improbable enough that it requires a further explanation out of the mundane.

I would hardly call it "accurate" when:

A - He's been going on about a new HH edition for like a year, claiming every single event preview would show it (then it didn't).

B - We have 0 confirmation on any of the rumours being true at all. All anyone is doing is foaming at the mouth because of a rounded pouch and a joke video making fun of people for claiming that HH3 has been coming for (once again for the people in the back) an entire year.

If you all cast your mind back, the first major claim for all of this was that there would be a new HH edition because the transfer sheet in the Command Squad box had Salamander and Iron Warrior transfers. We're almost a year later now, and still no new edition BTW.

He was pretty clear the preview was his conjecture and put an apology out when it was wrong. It's also the only thing he's been wrong about in a long while. Just recently:
- correctly reported the new tsons unit
- correctly reported the battleforce and combat patrol contents for the chaos books
- correctly reported the contents of the EC, the Eldar and I believe the IG range as well
- correctly described the new IK and quite likely the chaos knight and potentially even it's name

If you're not considering him accurate, what is accurate to you?

When this supposed 3rd edition of HH comes out that he's been touting for a year.

Can we please stop debating Valrak's credibility and whether or not he is a GW plant? It's kind of tedious, and not particularly relevant now that GW are generating their own rumours.

I'm curious, Gert - why're you so het up in countering the suggestion that GW are leaking "spoilers" via Valrak, with or without his knowledge?

 Dysartes wrote:
I'm curious, Gert - why're you so het up in countering the suggestion that GW are leaking "spoilers" via Valrak, with or without his knowledge?

Who knows, upwards of 90% accuracy sort of suggests it, but since Gert isn't super keen on a 3rd ed it needs to suit his narrative and any opportunity for Valrak to be high and guessing.

Easy enough to know if Valrak is an "industry plant" or not - go read up his entire posting history on Bolter & Chainsword. If you wont learn anything about the chap, what he plays, what armies he has etc, you can raise the sus flag..

I have "inner circle" status with at least one commercial company, which means I get to hear about their new stuff before the general public.. but this also means I've signed an NDA and if I ever spill anything I'm not at liberty to disclose, I'll be financially ruined. Could easily see someone getting a similar deal from GW. But this is all just theoretical/academic speculation with zero basis on reality.

I still find it amusing that Warhammer Community hasn’t linked to the Hearsay stuff.

Cut a video, possibly with actors. Knock together a barebones website with some images and silliness.

Let the internet do all the work.

It’s a pretty cost effective approach.

Hoping for some more hearsay today!

If anyone remembers the TV show "Pretty Little Liars" that aired from 2010 to 2017, I had a connection on that show. Yeah, I know, it's kind of a girly-centric show, don't judge. They were also an Eldar Nerd, and I gave them a VERY good deal on a metal never-released alternate sculpt Harlequin Solitaire that I accidentally acquired at a 40k swap event for almost nothing.

I actually sold/bought a number of things from them and they slipped plot details from the show to me. A number of my teenage employees at the time watched the show, and I had them in disbelief when I spilled "shocking plot twists" in episodes that wouldn't air for 3-4 months in the future.

Sometimes being in the right place at the right time CAN lead to insider info. Honestly though, I see a few possibilities, and ANY of them could be true. 1. Valrak has contact with a true leaker. 2. This started out as a leak, but GW smiled at the free press attention, and casually looks the other way. 3. Valrak thinks it's a leaker, but is actually company sanctioned. 4. GW noticed Valrak's popularity, and they have an under-the-table-handshake agreement that he has first dibs on leaking this stuff, for mutual gain.

Mix of 3 and 4.

Valrak is an enthusiastic chap, and free of ego in the right way. So as someone to be passed sanctioned “leaks”, he’s pretty much ideal. He presents them on with said enthusiasm, and doesn’t get all “political” and that.

He also provides some kind of filter, and is clear when info has come from a previously proven accurate source, but even then don’t take them entirely at face value.

As a hype cats paw, he’s a solid choice.

The speed of edition change really makes me feel my age these days!

The two years of 2e I was involved in feels like a decade compared to me watching this new edition of Heresy get released what seems like "only a few months ago".

Just seems too fast for middle aged guys like me that don't get to play super regularly.

 Da Boss wrote:
The speed of edition change really makes me feel my age these days!

The two years of 2e I was involved in feels like a decade compared to me watching this new edition of Heresy get released what seems like "only a few months ago".

Just seems too fast for middle aged guys like me that don't get to play super regularly.

I feel your pain. I used to play 40k once per week at the FLGS, and about every other month with a friend. Then I had some work drama where a co-worker demanded my Tuesdays off (game night) specifically to mess with my hobby. I virtually stopped playing 40k from the end of 5th edition until the beginning of 8th, played a handful of games, and been almost nonexistent since then.

That's really rough! I suppose the release model must be working well enough for GW though, old farts have too much stuff already to make a lot of money off of unless they're always selling stuff on and buying new.

Sympathy with that. My commute killed my gaming time.

Went from playing two or three times a week, to none. And that was in…erm…2012?

It’s really hard to get back into, Spesh as I previously found all my gaming buddies from working in the local GW.

More bizarre rumours added to that site

Masterful trolling.

Bolters to S3

Flame templates halving in size (yes, direct conflict with them getting biggerer)

White Scars in boxed set.

Sadly no pics.

They may be returning to different sized flame templates ala 2nd edition

If that did happen, would they bring back the other blast templates? Might be nice to have the Thudd Gun back.

I mean, it’s possible.

Epic returned to its 2nd Ed With Knobs On.

But for the scale of HH battles? I don’t see them going much more complex rules wise than we have now/

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Flame templates halving in size (yes, direct conflict with them getting biggerer)

Why? Doubling + Halfing = they stay as they are.

This reads and sounds like they make jokes about those "It will be.." made up rumours from all around the Internet....


Heared the box will have 80 Mk2 and 80 Mk4 Marines

 Gert wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Just some random guy who unknowingly got feed with material intented for him because rumours and leaks are better hype creators than official announcements

Or, like most Warhammer content creators (ugh hate that term), they have legit connections to people who work at GW by going to events, chatting to employees and being sort-of journalists (for toy soldiers exclusively that is). It's not some big conspiracy my dude, people who work at companies leak stuff all the time, intentionally or unintentionally.

My favorite is people who refer to Games Workshop as a single living entity. Typically evil, with other companies like Mantic and Warlord being scrappy rebels. Foundry, Perry bros, Wargames Illustrated, Caliver Books, and Battlefront's UK HQ, among many others, all in the same place.

There's no big conspiracy. Nottingham isn't huge. Everybody is a few degrees of separation from everybody else in the industry, and many of them game and drink together. Their socials are full of pics of people from various companies playing games together. Hell, sometimes you'll see various names pop up in various groups in FB, like when I saw Rob A (from TOW/Middle Earth) posting in a Vor The Maelstrom fb group the other day. "Leaks" are almost certainly attributed to friends having a pint.

I have very little truck with "deliberate leak" theories. Just because I have worked in a bunch of major corporations who have been accused of such and they never were.

Big companies are always much more dysfunctional than people think, and much more leaky.

Also leak detection is very (very) hard and companies genuinely often talk the talk about it but then are not willing to spend any money actually investigating things when it actually comes down to it.

And lets face it most of the time there isn't the "damage" to make it worth investing much. Esp for a firm like GW.

Anything that isn't tied to a 3rd party IP (basically just Lord of the Ring stuff) is basically their own product; their own control and the worst that happens is a bunch of their already die-hard and spending fanbase is - excited to spend money on an upcoming thing.

It might mess with sales metrics a bit but likely in a way that isn't really detectable.


So if a new thing is coming and it gets leaked its - well its not really a disaster. Yes GW doesn't want leaks and wants to control their marketing and info release; but in the end its not worth it to them to invest vast amounts.

The only time it is is for that lucrative 3rd party and even then I'd wager that Lord of the Rings stuff has likely eased off considerably from the height of the films.
That might get turned back on again if GW retains the licence and new films come out and they work on models for them.

the worst part that happened from a "leak" in the past was that a 3rd party company had (physical) models ready the moment GW released theirs

Chaos knights model loadout and name correctly called whilst we're score keeping on the minimal chance rumours are going to be wrong.

Dudeface wrote:
Chaos knights model loadout and name correctly called whilst we're score keeping on the minimal chance rumours are going to be wrong.

That release of a single update sprue each is the only thing both 40k factions get for the next years to come though. I'm fine waiting a few weeks.

the other bad thing about finding out who a leaker inside the company is, is it's often somebody senior enough that a company may well not want to actually do anything about it...

but once they've made a point of looking they have to or they look weak

far better to stick to looking at what the playtesters and youtube folks with access to relatively short term stuff (and probably minimal support amongst senior staff yo don't want to upset)

Leaks are a way to make poeple want to buy those produckts they see it as free ads. It could be gw is leaking some rumours them self.

whats a better way for your products then free hype.

When i did some work for gw as an outrider.
In the early 2000 we would get stuf early so we could have a painted army when they would be released. and we got release dates for new produckts.

Put yourself in GW’s shoes specifically.

You don’t have much fear of being one upped. Your product is pretty unique, you control the IP, and if anyone takes the mick ripping off said IP, you’ve the depth of pocket to ruin them.

Ever since I’ve been cluttering up Forums (25+ years), we’ve loved a rumour, especially one that turns out to be true. And because you get some right funny ‘uns online? False Rumours can lead to complaints against you. No, I don’t understand it either.

Rumours gain hype. Hype can be turned to sales. Sales is good, sales is what you’re all about.

Taken together? Giving out “sanctioned” leaks is beneficial. It generates the heat, it generates the hype. And it clearly works in getting those sales.

This isn’t like many other industries. There’s no corporate espionage or selling of top secrets to damage you. And as said, anyone found taking the mick can and will be sued into oblivion, even if you don’t get much further than a quick Cease and Desist.

Not to mention the other thing which is that even if models make a bulk of sales in their launch period - your product as a whole isn't short term. Barring a few outliers (Warhammer Quest) the core games have shelf lives measured in decades and Old World has really proven that hard!

Will the Knight Defender get 30K rules, or will it be excluded like the Dominus chassis?

Trying to talk about 30K- Valrak credability and GW business and leaks are their own topic

The real genius of Horus Hearsay is that its a joke, we all know its a joke, we talk about it being a joke, but they publish a joke like flamer templates halving in size (right after they previoisly posted about them doubling) and half of us spiral into discussions about how new flamer template sizes might be legit and how itll work.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Gert wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Just some random guy who unknowingly got feed with material intented for him because rumours and leaks are better hype creators than official announcements

Or, like most Warhammer content creators (ugh hate that term), they have legit connections to people who work at GW by going to events, chatting to employees and being sort-of journalists (for toy soldiers exclusively that is). It's not some big conspiracy my dude, people who work at companies leak stuff all the time, intentionally or unintentionally.

My favorite is people who refer to Games Workshop as a single living entity. Typically evil, with other companies like Mantic and Warlord being scrappy rebels. Foundry, Perry bros, Wargames Illustrated, Caliver Books, and Battlefront's UK HQ, among many others, all in the same place.

There's no big conspiracy. Nottingham isn't huge. Everybody is a few degrees of separation from everybody else in the industry, and many of them game and drink together. Their socials are full of pics of people from various companies playing games together. Hell, sometimes you'll see various names pop up in various groups in FB, like when I saw Rob A (from TOW/Middle Earth) posting in a Vor The Maelstrom fb group the other day. "Leaks" are almost certainly attributed to friends having a pint.

Was gonna say, doesnt Valrak live in or near Nottingham?

Like guys, come on, this isnt hard. Even I have sources in GW and sone of the other companies mentioned and Im on the other side of an ocean from them (though starting to dry up as life leads people down different paths). Its amazing what you can learn when you befriend the right people.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Will the Knight Defender get 30K rules, or will it be excluded like the Dominus chassis?

It's a good question - and am I right in thinking the Chaos versions aren't in there either? Kinda makes sense, given there's not much blatant corruption in the range thus far, outside of... two(?) Daemon Primarchs.

The Chaos versions can be taken by using the Exemplary Battles series. Most of the gubbins are in there.

 Da Boss wrote:
The speed of edition change really makes me feel my age these days!

The two years of 2e I was involved in feels like a decade compared to me watching this new edition of Heresy get released what seems like "only a few months ago".

Just seems too fast for middle aged guys like me that don't get to play super regularly.

I know, right? Even in the "Rumors/ Rumours, it's like we're joining a newer cult then the old one...


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 Dysartes wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Will the Knight Defender get 30K rules, or will it be excluded like the Dominus chassis?

It's a good question - and am I right in thinking the Chaos versions aren't in there either? Kinda makes sense, given there's not much blatant corruption in the range thus far, outside of... two(?) Daemon Primarchs.

There was nothing about the Demons/ cultists/ mutated marine units in the books. Plenty of pretty pictures, zero on meat and potatoes. The books were pretty much shirts vs Skins game of Apocalypse, with both side going to war, with the only difference being the Mark type of Armor that was the favorite of the chapter.

When I read through it, my personal feelings was that the book was incomplete. THAT would lead to an evolution of 100 to 300 years. Newer corrupted, and tainted units, mutated armor sets, cult troops, demon engines, sorcerers and minor and major demons, chaos beasts, and the chaos demon attachments discussed in WD and gaming halls around the world... As well as the rest of the Armor sets, variants, and newer vehicles, based on RT era art and the Blanche Fu, of days of yore...

Aside from Solar Auxiliary, and Plastic Mech, What other Horus troops and Imperial cult Sisters should we be seeing?

So either Valrak was right or this is the world's best Photoshop

Wow that Saturine Praetor is huge...

Grrr... can't afford pretty army... must look away.

Were headkng back to Isstvan boys

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/wmno4akm/planetfall-countdown-drop-minus-399-hours/

I'm just glad we can finally put this whole "Saturnine Armour isn't the same thing as Rogue Trader Terminator Armour" bit to rest.

Holy gak! Those melon-fethers are huge!



Also, the "timer" on WarCom is set to 399hrs. I suppose we can take that as a not so subtle release reveal date, in 17 days time?

I'm assuming that'll be the official reveal, it's too early for release. 399 hours puts it on May 29th.

wow, that praetor looks great. love the dreadnought too. great models, all around

hope the new edition's rules are good... or else, i can just play 2nd edition, and run the new terminators and dreadnought as normal terminators and a contemptor

also i find it interesting that the saturnine box seems to be a dreadnought and three terminators. is that the normal box, or just a thing for the edition launch?


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 Prometheum5 wrote:
I'm assuming that'll be the official reveal, it's too early for release. 399 hours puts it on May 29th.

reveal is what i figure. does GW have an announcement stream planned for the 29th or so?

Prometheum5 wrote:I'm assuming that'll be the official reveal, it's too early for release. 399 hours puts it on May 29th.

Thankyou, reveal is indeed what I meant. Amended.

StudentOfEtherium wrote:also i find it interesting that the saturnine box seems to be a dreadnought and three terminators. is that the normal box, or just a thing for the edition launch?

I would hazard a guess that the top picture is just the front cover for the starter box. I don't think the two photos show separate boxes.

 Snrub wrote:
I would hazard a guess that the top picture is just the front cover for the starter box. I don't think the two photos show separate boxes.

It is. You can see the front cover repeated on the side of the box in the second photo.

This looks like a genuine photo - someone broke into the warehouse, or breached their NDA. I guess that kills GW's rumour trolling campaign.

I have mixed feelings on the look of the Saturnine stuff. It seems to be a completely different aesthetic to the rest of the HH Legion models, but maybe that's the whole point.

So what do we reckon for the Termies and Dread? Elite, Heavy Support?

Elite is pretty packed already and the termies each having a heavy weapon (or potentially doubling up) suggests to me a fire support role which would make Heavy Support a sensible place to put them. Same goes for the dreadnought. From the look of it, it might be a dedicated anti-elite fire support unit in contrast to the Contemptor/Castra-ferruns general purpose, the Levi's short range heavy firepower and deredeo's anti-tank/flyer role.

And what about the centurion? Sculpt for an exisiting consul or a new one?


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 Snord wrote:
I have mixed feelings on the look of the Saturnine stuff. It seems to be a completely different aesthetic to the rest of the HH Legion models, but maybe that's the whole point.

Yeah as always I'm reserving judgement until I've seen better photos of them and/or have them in hand. But the Saturnine seems to be something of an aesthetic departure from the rest of the heresy range.

I've never been sure what (if any) Mk of armour they're supposed to match up to lore-wise. Initially, years ago, I thought they were some of the OG terminator armour variants and meant to be along the lines of MkII. But it was my impression that more reason mentions of them alluded to them being developed in conjunction with MkVI armour. But now they're out alongside MkII, which I know doesn't necessarily mean anything as Battle of Calth had MkIV armour with Cataphractii and Burning of Prospero reversed it with Tartaros with MkIV.
All this doesn't really mean a whole lot at the end of the day, but for someone like me who's doing their army as early crusade-era, I need to know if I can safely add these to my MkII/III heavy army and not break the space-time continuum.

What is the point of that dreadnought existing, its almost exactly the same as a leviathan design wise. Also YAY 3 MAN MARINE SQUADS IN HH

 Snord wrote:

 Snrub wrote:
I would hazard a guess that the top picture is just the front cover for the starter box. I don't think the two photos show separate boxes.

It is. You can see the front cover repeated on the side of the box in the second photo.

This looks like a genuine photo - someone broke into the warehouse, or breached their NDA. I guess that kills GW's rumour trolling campaign.

I have mixed feelings on the look of the Saturnine stuff. It seems to be a completely different aesthetic to the rest of the HH Legion models, but maybe that's the whole point.

The saturnine stuff feels like it would work really well for custodes.

 Snrub wrote:
So what do we reckon for the Termies and Dread? Elite, Heavy Support?

Elite is pretty packed already and the termies each having a heavy weapon (or potentially doubling up) suggests to me a fire support role which would make Heavy Support a sensible place to put them. Same goes for the dreadnought. From the look of it, it might be a dedicated anti-elite fire support unit in contrast to the Contemptor/Castra-ferruns general purpose, the Levi's short range heavy firepower and deredeo's anti-tank/flyer role.

Heavy Support is also heavily packed though. I think the Terminators will be Elites, and the Dreadnought will be HS.

And what about the centurion? Sculpt for an exisiting consul or a new one?

It will likely be a new one. Hopefully something that can be easily converted - I'm using the Fafnir Rann kit for all my Centurions at the moment.

I've never been sure what (if any) Mk of armour they're supposed to match up to lore-wise. Initially, years ago, I thought they were some of the OG terminator armour variants and meant to be along the lines of MkII. But it was my impression that more reason mentions of them alluded to them being developed in conjunction with MkVI armour. But now they're out alongside MkII, which I know doesn't necessarily mean anything as Battle of Calth had MkIV armour with Cataphractii and Burning of Prospero reversed it with Tartaros with MkIV.
All this doesn't really mean a whole lot at the end of the day, but for someone like me who's doing their army as early crusade-era, I need to know if I can safely add these to my MkII/III heavy army and not break the space-time continuum.

Maybe they are going to be relics of an earlier design aesthetic (which is also what they are in reality). The problem for me is that the Terminators look like they belong to a different race. They're as different to Marines as Necrons are. The Praetor looks pretty good though.

 Snord wrote:


Maybe they are going to be relics of an earlier design aesthetic (which is also what they are in reality). The problem for me is that the Terminators look like they belong to a different race. They're as different to Marines as Necrons are. The Praetor looks pretty good though.

The saturnine armor with double plasma does remind me more of old titan concept art, but I do see how it started as a big exo suit and was later refined down into smaller and more mobile terminator variants. And the Dread looks like it easily split into the leviathan and telemon chassis later on.

I'm in for 2 of this box.

What interests me is that it’s still using the Age of Darkness tagline. That was the “big name” for 2e so it’s possible this isn’t a huge revision after all.

Also, I don’t see how terminators carrying two heavy weapons each could be anything other than heavy support, assuming such things as “slots” continue to exist.

Dread looks great to me

Interesting how close the terminators are to some 3rd party interpretations of Saturnine armour. Some sculptors will just have to adjust weapon loadouts to fit the codex and they're good to go with "copies" that came before the real model.


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"No deliberate leaks" people looking kinda funny right now tho. This box pic came at the most perfect time possible.

I admit I doubted the rumors were true and it seems like everything in the box is exactly as stated.

Out of all of it I'll probably only try to get my hands on the IW praetor and the turret. The saturnine armor is ugly and I have way too many MK VI marines to mix in other armor marks.

 Gert wrote:
When this supposed 3rd edition of HH comes out that he's been touting for a year.

We have a winner!

Wishing Gert steadfastness and serenity in Crashing Out About Wargames Valhalla. Give our best to Kanluwen and Daedalus81, trooper.

The new terminators and dreadnought look neat, but I am genuinely thrilled we are getting MkII armor in plastic. It's my favorite power armor variant and I love seeing it.

Dudeface wrote:
]We have a winner!

Box yes, edition not as of yet.

Also the fact that this got leaked to Valrak when a teaser goes up the same day is pretty good evidence that this isn't some secret plan to give Valrak info on everything.

It looks to say "Third Edition Hardback Rulebook" in the top right corner of the box rear.

 Gert wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
]We have a winner!

Box yes, edition not as of yet.

Also the fact that this got leaked to Valrak when a teaser goes up the same day is pretty good evidence that this isn't some secret plan to give Valrak info on everything.

It says 3rd edition on the box.

Besides the whole point was you didn't consider his rumours accurate.

He got the factions, models, count and loadout correct.

 Altruizine wrote:
It looks to say "Third Edition Hardback Rulebook" in the top right corner of the box rear.

Yes, my eyesight isn't up to deciphering it with 100% certainty, but I think that's what it says. While I share Gert's apprehension about what a new edition might bring, it seems pretty clear that this is what we are getting.

Finally, HH gets ugly 40k Toy Designs!

Sorry, these Terminators are so ugly....

RazorEdge wrote:
Finally, HH gets ugly 40k Toy Designs!

Sorry, these Terminators are so ugly....

The Deredeo already looks like a lost Exo-Squad toy.

Yessir I like it.

And, dare I say my speculation was right, and this isn’t a new edition but a new boxed set with an updated rulebook?

Box looks cool to me. Static defence turret is kinda lame though, compared to having… any other thing really. Breachers for example. Or another dread, or a couple of rhinos even.

I dig the designs overall. Mk2 - just awesome, new dread - cool, termies - still not as good as the tartaros termies, but pretty nonetheless.

And I wasn’t aware of the timberland-GW collab, haha
I just have to point out the hilarious way the leak is shot as well. As if someone was told to make it look natural for the camera and someone had to lend a pair of different random shoes, an old horrible car seat, a bunch of boxes.
Box set shot at an angle, out of focus if barely in.
So either it’s a “””leak””” or someone is really truly so lazy he couldn’t spend 2 seconds to put the object of interest on the floor without gak in the background, or he is just utterly clueless.

Wait, just saw the chat about “Third Edition Hardback Rulebook” and I’m pretty sure that’s the right of it.

Oh well.

Yes Please, Santa, I’ll Have Two.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Box looks cool to me. Static defence turret is kinda lame though, compared to having… any other thing really. Breachers for example. Or another dread, or a couple of rhinos even.

Agreed. An uninspired inclusion.

I dig the designs overall. Mk2 - just awesome, new dread - cool, termies - still not as good as the tartaros termies, but pretty nonetheless.

I can't make out the details on the Mk2 well enough to come to a view on how good they are. But then I've never really understood why Mk2 seems to be so popular. I'd have preferred Mk5 - although that probably wouldn't pair as well the Saturnine stuff (which I'm assuming is meant to be more arcane).

And I wasn’t aware of the timberland-GW collab, haha
I just have to point out the hilarious way the leak is shot as well. As if someone was told to make it look natural for the camera and someone had to lend a pair of different random shoes, an old horrible car seat, a bunch of boxes.
Box set shot at an angle, out of focus if barely in.
So either it’s a “””leak””” or someone is really truly so lazy he couldn’t spend 2 seconds to put the object of interest on the floor without gak in the background, or he is just utterly clueless.

I don't buy the theory this this is a deliberate GW leak. I think they would have leaked something more blurry or incomplete - these images are too clear, and cut across their rumour-based promotional campaign. A more likely scenario is that these photos were taken by an opportunistic person who spotted the open box in someone's car.

Looks like one squad in the box will be Mk2 Veterans. Wonder what weapon options will be in there?

Maybe it's a Mk2 chaplain? Guessing due to the weapon.

Disintegrator weapons. AP2 + Instant death to counter the big terminators.

No idea on the boom boom turret other than this might be the "White Scar" hint was about. White Scars = fast so something to do with "accelerators" or "rapid fire gun name".

I wonder what today’s Horus Hearsay update will be. Closing the site or claiming the box images are an elaborate hoax?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I wonder what today’s Horus Hearsay update will be. Closing the site or claiming the box images are an elaborate hoax?

Can be speculation about further releases.


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I’ll need to dig out my spare Special and Heavy Weapons you know.

 Snord wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
It looks to say "Third Edition Hardback Rulebook" in the top right corner of the box rear.

Yes, my eyesight isn't up to deciphering it with 100% certainty, but I think that's what it says. While I share Gert's apprehension about what a new edition might bring, it seems pretty clear that this is what we are getting.

I love how much value you get out of each edition rulebook. So cheap, so much value! /s

Agree the immobile gun is the weak point of the box. Saturnines are an acquired taste but no more so than Contemptors and Doritos. The Saturnine dread is straight up cooler than those two, it looks like someone wrapped a Leviathan in an OG beetleback Warlord titan. Pwrfect blend of old and new HH visual design.

Mk2, as everyone knows by now, I love the previous version with overlapping plates alot more than this one.

Wondering what the big gun on the Dread and Termies is.

Kinda looks Plasma, but also not?

 Moopy wrote:
Looks like one squad in the box will be Mk2 Veterans. Wonder what weapon options will be in there?

Maybe it's a Mk2 chaplain? Guessing due to the weapon.

I see he also has a servo-skull. Is that a first for a HH model? I thought combining technology with religious iconography came later.

 Albertorius wrote:
I love how much value you get out of each edition rulebook. So cheap, so much value! /s

That's why I quit playing WH40k when 10th Edition came out (I didn't like the rules either). I simply wasn't prepared to go through it all again.

Don’t think the turret thing is immobile you know. Looks floaty.

 Altruizine wrote:
It looks to say "Third Edition Hardback Rulebook" in the top right corner of the box rear.

Disappointing then.

Depends on whether it’s akin to 3rd/4th Ed 40K. Different editions, yes. But the changes were relatively minimal.

Nvm

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Don’t think the turret thing is immobile you know. Looks floaty.

It looks a lot like a Tarantula - the legs appear to be very similar to the new plastic version, although the image is too indistinct to be sure.

 Snord wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
Looks like one squad in the box will be Mk2 Veterans. Wonder what weapon options will be in there?

Maybe it's a Mk2 chaplain? Guessing due to the weapon.

I see he also has a servo-skull. Is that a first for a HH model? I thought combining technology with religious iconography came later.

Maybe a Praevian?

Here's a rotated image that's a bit easier to read:



The only bit I can't make out is the page count figure, but it clearly says "Third Edition Hardback Rulebook"

 Albertorius wrote:

I love how much value you get out of each edition rulebook. So cheap, so much value! /s

The good news is that boxes like this inevitably end up having the rulebooks available very cheaply in the second-hand market, as people break up the boxes to max out certain models.

I’m not seeing legs? There’s something odd and lumpy toward the front, but I couldn’t say what it is.

Well that autocannon turret has some leg-carriage underneath it but looks somehow bit faded.

Defo 4 very widely spread legs

Lots of disintegrators

Dread right arm and nipple guns are all disintegrators


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So the true Hearsay teasers were the dread knee sketch, the saturnine shoulder pad and the plastic counters

Dreads right arm looks more like an melta.

 Sotahullu wrote:
Dreads right arm looks more like an melta.

It has the hubcap magazine

Well, if that's indeed 3rd edition with a new cycle of books on the same release schedule as before - I'm done with HH.
Still hoping it's just a facelift, like all of the Necromunda editions.
Couldn't care less about marines

Not a d18 in sight!

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

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 Prometheum5 wrote:
I'm assuming that'll be the official reveal, it's too early for release. 399 hours puts it on May 29th.

reveal is what i figure. does GW have an announcement stream planned for the 29th or so?

So originally we expected this to be shown at the Dallas Open preview next week. That event page now has an 'important update':

https://web.cvent.com/event/4928ecba-01fb-4110-981d-1971e98f0847/summary

Following the link says they're replacing the preview with some kind of SM2 tournament instead.

The preview event being cancelled would explain both the "399 hours" thing, and also why several recent big 40k previews have been done on WarCom.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m not seeing legs? There’s something odd and lumpy toward the front, but I couldn’t say what it is.

I think you, like me at first glance, took the lines that go from the turret as some kind of scenery in the background. Look again, they're definitely mechanic legs/ carriers. Though I'm not sure they're actually able to walk, it looks pretty much like entrenched artillery.

Arrangement looks a lot like the old Manticore Platform, but more articulated with pistons and such

On the disintegrator sprue, I’m hoping for a load of MkII arms to take heavy weapons and melee weapons easier instead of the half arsed vambrace option for MkIII

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Arrangement looks a lot like the old Manticore Platform, but more articulated with pistons and such

To me, it looks as though it sitting on a slightly elongated version of the new plastic Tarantula's legs. And the apparent distortion could just be the image. The description on the back of the box seems to be 'Arachnus(?) Quad Accelerator (Autocannon?) Platform'.

Accelerator platform reminds me of the old forgeworld hydra platform

So judging by the pictures the Saturnine Termies are more like Dreadnoughts in that they're housing a dismembered pilot rather than being an exosuit like all other TDA patterns?

 His Master's Voice wrote:
So judging by the pictures the Saturnine Termies are more like Dreadnoughts in that they're housing a dismembered pilot rather than being an exosuit like all other TDA patterns?

Head being below the shoulders is no reason to assume that

So was Saturine always the canon name for this mark?

I was always told it was an unofficial fan name

 GaroRobe wrote:
So was Saturine always the canon name for this mark?

I was always told it was an unofficial fan name

It was an unofficial fan name. GW actually making them cannon including the design is some proper fan service

Yeah, they're probably hiding some plasma-fuel in those shoulders for those guns.
And some Snacks, because you should never go to battle without some Snacks.

Also hoping that this is just a 2.1 rather than a full 3.0.

... and now I have an incentive to finish painting the 2nd edition starter box.

Super minor observation?

MkII Bolters appear to have the Chainblade attachment. So that’s nice.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Super minor observation?

MkII Bolters appear to have the Chainblade attachment. So that’s nice.

Yes, looks like MKII have the same bolter as MKIII (Phobos pattern, best pattern) but as MKII lacks vambraces they used the extra space to add those chainblades/bayonets.

 xttz wrote:
The good news is that boxes like this inevitably end up having the rulebooks available very cheaply in the second-hand market, as people break up the boxes to max out certain models.

Yeah, the problem is the same as with any edition: unlearning stuff, relearning stuff. I ain't got time for that anymore, TBH, for a game I might play every other month, at the very best.

Plus, as said above, a new run through the codex carousel.

Sorry for Heresy fans who're joining the threadmill. Maybe a "community edition" will emerge which is more stable?

As to the box, the marines look fine, the Dread is really quite cool, but I'm not into those terminators.

Good stuff, it means zero temptation for me this time unlike the last time when I really was tempted by that Age of Darkness boxed set! Glad I didn't because I probably wouldn't even have had it assembled before the new edition came along.

Ok whoever designed that dreadnought and terminator - WELL DONE - that's the first time I've looked at a GW Dreadnought and gone "actually yeah I would really like to actually own that model"

Sadly HH already has a community edition that is godawful but has powerful backing that makes any other homebrew unlikely to catch on.

We still need to know more about the extent of changes to the rules.

I’m expecting, admittedly through hope rather than evidence, a 3rd/4th/5th Ed type tweak and refine, rather than a Baby And Bathwater Job.

What I do demand, yes, demand? Contents and Glossary.

If this is a starter box it seems somewhat less likely to get new players interested than the AoD box. People already into HH will be excited about Saturnine but I think overall the minis in AoD have/had a broader appeal to people that might be interested in HH.

A working index and sane layout with abilities alphabetized and not scattered across 7 sections would be good.

Annoyingly a 2.1 patch that left faction books legal would be the opposite of what the game needs. Core rules work fine, army lists need fixes.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
A working index and sane layout with abilities alphabetized and not scattered across 7 sections would be good.

Annoyingly a 2.1 patch that left faction books legal would be the opposite of what the game needs. Core rules work fine, army lists need fixes.

Yeah.,.. the current book is aweful. I am in awe of how awful it is.

 Albertorius wrote:

 xttz wrote:
The good news is that boxes like this inevitably end up having the rulebooks available very cheaply in the second-hand market, as people break up the boxes to max out certain models.

Yeah, the problem is the same as with any edition: unlearning stuff, relearning stuff. I ain't got time for that anymore, TBH, for a game I might play every other month, at the very best.

Plus, as said above, a new run through the codex carousel.

If youre in a happy established group then simply don't - decide to continue with current rules.

Sadly that usually only works until someone wants to use the new models...

The dread looks pretty nice.

Terminators look a bit weird, but it is pretty good take on the concept. I also like how they have a lot of interesting structure, like the knee joints.

They're hella big though, more like centurion-sized (perhaps one could use them as such.) And whilst it has always been a tad questionable how the marine fits inside a terminator armour, these take the issue on completely another level.

Looks to me like the arms of the Marine are encased in the chest area?

Doesn't seem any worse than old Indomitus

I'm surprised it has these layout issues since it's essentially a version of 7th edition that had already been refined in Heresy first edition. Sadly sloppy for such expensive books.

It’d be less of an issue if it had a contents and glossary/index section.

That Legion Praetor is gigantic and will become very popular with Iron Warriors players no doubt.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Looks to me like the arms of the Marine are encased in the chest area?

And the legs are encased where?

In the foot locker aboard ship.

Duh.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In the foot locker aboard ship.

Duh.

I feel like there's a pun in there somewhere but it has me stumped

They could either hark back to original rogue trader lore where the original dreadnought pilots were encased in foetal position or they’re wounded subjects not too far gone for dreadnought internment but perfect for saturnine armour internment

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In the foot locker aboard ship.

Duh.

I feel like there's a pun in there somewhere but it has me stumped

I feel a bit of a heel now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In the foot locker aboard ship.

Duh.

I feel like there's a pun in there somewhere but it has me stumped

I feel a bit of a heel now.

That’d be the phantom limb pain; walk it off.

I think this joke is on its last legs now.

And 2 new bits of nonsense on Horus Hearsay

This release looks awesome, but for me, I really wish I could be there when the anti-Valrak crowd sees this. That is a lot of crow to eat.

 Albertorius wrote:

Yeah, the problem is the same as with any edition: unlearning stuff, relearning stuff. I ain't got time for that anymore, TBH, for a game I might play every other month, at the very best.

Plus, as said above, a new run through the codex carousel.

100% agreement on learning stuff when you rarely play. I only get to play at AdeptiCon as I haven't found people near me that I want to spend time with... anyway. My buddy from a different state and I read the rule and army books to each other on the drive to Chicago each year. It's the only way that works for us. I really hope the HH3 rules are just a 2.5 adjustment. Make Fliers Reasonable Again, etc.

That said, they don't really do Codex carousels in HH. There is a loyalist book, Traitor book, Admech book, and army doods. However, I don't want to drop another $60 for each of these. For the 2nd time in 3 years.

A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

Honestly, can't wait to see the turret release on it's own, it's the only part i'm interested in. (Me, a stormwing player: "Waiter, oh waiter! more static fortifications please!")

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

what was the meme?

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

It's almost as though all lore is just made up!

Only difference is that style of armour is now confirmed to be Saturnine pattern, whereas previously it was at best ambiguous.

I like most of what I see - and I'm really happy to finally see GW's take on updating the old M&M Terminator, finally calling it "Saturnine" and getting me to purchase...quite a few of them!

My main concern here is that all these new toys occupy their own distinct niche in terms of tactical applications and that.

What is that Saturnine Terminators offer that Cataphractii (4++) and Tartaros (better mobility) don’t. The same for the Dreadnought, comparing against three stablemates.

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

what was the meme?

"Saturnine" Terminator armour being that style.

It's a pattern of armour that was mentioned in Like 2 books but never had any official depiction of any kind, not even a description. The community at some point saw that those original Terminator miniatures and decided to start claiming they were "Saturnine" despite that never having been even hinted at officially, and it has since been got repeated over and over as a if were a fact regardless. Now it actually is "Saturnine" because of that incorrect lore having been parroted as fact so often.

 xttz wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

It's almost as though all lore is just made up!

Of course it is. That doesn't change that it's a bit of a shame when the lore misinformation wins out like this.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My main concern here is that all these new toys occupy their own distinct niche in terms of tactical applications and that.

What is that Saturnine Terminators offer that Cataphractii (4++) and Tartaros (better mobility) don’t. The same for the Dreadnought, comparing against three stablemates.

They do the same things but better. - For People to buy them.

 xttz wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

It's almost as though all lore is just made up!

All lore is made up. -Drax the Inquisitor.

I really like the Dreadnought, but I have always had a soft spot for Dreads. The terminators... I dunno. I'm really hoping my Imperial Fists keep their +1 to hit with bolters and autos. It's the crutch that keeps me in games!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
And 2 new bits of nonsense on Horus Hearsay

There's loads of extra nonsense on their now, there's a bunch of commentary on the leaked pics. My favourite being that it's clearly a photoshop as they've added text warning about the box containing small parts

"“Small parts?” Really? Have you seen that dreadnought? Those are LARGE parts."

They also called photographer anything between 4-11 old as there was no photo on the insides and shoddy camera work.

I am pumped for this release! Always loved the retro models reimagined and brought back to life.

I would've preferred to see a resculpt of the original Furibundus dreadnought but this new design is awesome so I'm not complaining one bit.

The set gives off a real dark age of technology vibe which I love.

After a really disappointing TSons update, this is just what I needed to get my spirits up!

Has anyone noted that the photo on thehorushearsay of the box cover with the d18 does not match the bottom right corner of the saturnine cover?

Also appears to not match the rulebook cover (missing the warhammer logo)

Ok, instead of bickering about nonsense bs that doesn't matter in the slightest, lets do something fun and rampantly speculate about statlines and weapon profiles.

There is absolutely no way that Sats are going to be anything faster then 5 inch movement. Not happening no way no how way. They're too hugelarge to be faster then hobbling speed. I predict though that they'll have some inbuilt deepstrike rule or the option to purchase a teleporter or something so they're not totally bereft of movement options. Probably a 2+/4++ like Cats. From the look of the picture weapon choices seem to be either Disintegrators/power Fists or double plasma weapons. Hopefully there's something else in the box as well.

As far as those interesting new plasma weapons go, they bear some similarities to the plasma bombard mortar thing that Thanatar wields. So I wonder if they're going to be some manner of plasma artillery? Because a wall of Sats marching forward lobbing plasma bombs around sounds like my idea of a good time.
All the disintegrator weapons have two barrels. So they could either be rejigging the profile for them for more shots, or the Sat units have a twin-linked version of the weapon. Would would help with the not insta-gibbing yourself on a gets hot.

I'm wondering if the power armoured centurion might be an Armistos. He's one of the few we don't have a resin mini for yet. Or he might be some whole new Consul type. The overall theme of deadly new tech and the abundance of disintegrators in the box could point to him being some Armourer of some type. A special weapon version of the Armistos with the ability to dole out special weapons to units who might not otherwise be able to take them.
Or he could just be a tooled up generic centurion.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My main concern here is that all these new toys occupy their own distinct niche in terms of tactical applications and that.

What is that Saturnine Terminators offer that Cataphractii (4++) and Tartaros (better mobility) don’t. The same for the Dreadnought, comparing against three stablemates.

Well I posited a few days (weeks?) ago that they might be giving the Sats a siege/support role to make them tactically distinct from the other terminators. Visible weapon options so far lean towards fire saturation. The Dreadnought the same. We've got the Contemptor/Castra-ferrum as jack-of-all-trades, The Levi has close support/siege, and the Deredeo has long range anti-armour/air covered. The SatDread looks to be shaping up as a dedicated anti-elite/fire support. True it's not exactly like the others can't do the same, but one has to assume they've got some special rule in place to make the SatDread a viable choice over the others.

"Well, there it is" like that meme Valrak always likes to post on B&C when these things happen.

The only thing in this box which even remotely interests me is the mega tarantula. Everything else is too Heretical for my sensibilities..

But wait, I thought MKII battle plate helmets were fixed! Or was that the MKI plate.. These are just like the MKIII kit but with slight cosmetic differences..

Anyways, wake my up when we get Land Speeder Proteus. I aint joining the HH3.0 churn train..

PS. Did you catch those Dreadnought Drop Pods landing in the background of that cover art? Plastic Dread Drop Pods confirmed!

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

what was the meme?

"Saturnine" Terminator armour being that style.

It's a pattern of armour that was mentioned in Like 2 books but never had any official depiction of any kind, not even a description. The community at some point saw that those original Terminator miniatures and decided to start claiming they were "Saturnine" despite that never having been even hinted at officially, and it has since been got repeated over and over as a if were a fact regardless. Now it actually is "Saturnine" because of that incorrect lore having been parroted as fact so often.

So basically something that was never defined was then defined by the community and GW went with it. Honestly that's less of a "meme destroyed lore" and more a case of "GW included user created/influenced lore" so in my view its a boon. It's not like they re-conned anything they just took a really old design for something that hasn't been used in decades and gave it a formal name; class and huge update

 tauist wrote:
But wait, I thought MKII battle plate helmets were fixed! Or was that the MKI plate.. These are just like the MKIII kit but with slight cosmetic differences.

MkII hasn't been fixed helmet for many long years now unfortunately and is in no way a recent change. I don't imagine a fixed forward facing helmet makes for particularly interesting miniatures to pose.

PS. Did you catch those Dreadnought Drop Pods landing in the background of that cover art? Plastic Dread Drop Pods confirmed!

That's an interesting bit of spotting. They're definitely not as slimline as troop pods are and don't appear to have flight fins on four sides. Could be a sneaky sneaky preview of something to come.
Or it might just be artistic interpretation.

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 xttz wrote:
The good news is that boxes like this inevitably end up having the rulebooks available very cheaply in the second-hand market, as people break up the boxes to max out certain models.

Yeah, the problem is the same as with any edition: unlearning stuff, relearning stuff. I ain't got time for that anymore, TBH, for a game I might play every other month, at the very best.

Plus, as said above, a new run through the codex carousel.

If youre in a happy established group then simply don't - decide to continue with current rules.

lord_blackfang wrote:Sadly that usually only works until someone wants to use the new models...

Yeah.... that's great, until it's not. And it goes contrary to the usual GW arguments ("If you play the current game, you'll be able to play, no matter where you are").


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Yeah, the problem is the same as with any edition: unlearning stuff, relearning stuff. I ain't got time for that anymore, TBH, for a game I might play every other month, at the very best.

Plus, as said above, a new run through the codex carousel.

100% agreement on learning stuff when you rarely play. I only get to play at AdeptiCon as I haven't found people near me that I want to spend time with... anyway. My buddy from a different state and I read the rule and army books to each other on the drive to Chicago each year. It's the only way that works for us. I really hope the HH3 rules are just a 2.5 adjustment. Make Fliers Reasonable Again, etc.

That said, they don't really do Codex carousels in HH. There is a loyalist book, Traitor book, Admech book, and army doods. However, I don't want to drop another $60 for each of these. For the 2nd time in 3 years.

I mean... it's a smaller one, but a codex carousel nonetheless ^^.

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

what was the meme?

"Saturnine" Terminator armour being that style.

It's a pattern of armour that was mentioned in Like 2 books but never had any official depiction of any kind, not even a description. The community at some point saw that those original Terminator miniatures and decided to start claiming they were "Saturnine" despite that never having been even hinted at officially, and it has since been got repeated over and over as a if were a fact regardless. Now it actually is "Saturnine" because of that incorrect lore having been parroted as fact so often.

So basically something that was never defined was then defined by the community and GW went with it. Honestly that's less of a "meme destroyed lore" and more a case of "GW included user created/influenced lore" so in my view its a boon. It's not like they re-conned anything they just took a really old design for something that hasn't been used in decades and gave it a formal name; class and huge update

Something that was never defined by GW was incorrectly claimed by the community to be something it never was, that was spread as a fact over and over even though it wasn't, and now what was an incorrect claim is fact. I'm just not too fond of the idea of parroting memelore and outright incorrect claims being spread because no one bothers to do more than just repeat what they heard as if it's a fact without any further thought, in turn actually affecting the lore. It's one thing if what was said was like "It would be cool if this classic armour style was Saturnine" as a theory, but it wasn't that, it was "This IS Saturnine armour!" claimed as canon, when it wasn't.

It's specifically it being called "Saturnine" that the issue is with. The miniatures themselves are cool and it's nice to have something based on those very classic designs.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
A shame that it seems memelore on "saturnine terminators" seems to have become canon. Incorrect lore having been repeated over and over so much and taken as fact when it never was, that it's now become the lore.

Not incorrect lore.

A reasonable assumption about an undefined bit of lore (that a name with no shape and a shape with no name go together) that turned out to be correct.

 tauist wrote:
But wait, I thought MKII battle plate helmets were fixed! Or was that the MKI plate.. These are just like the MKIII kit but with slight cosmetic differences.!

Mark II and III were originally fixed, yes, until FW redesigned them.