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Made in gb
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes





On a hate rampage.

Ok, I have this mate who won't shut up about his new Eldar. "Their tanks are epic", "They have the best psychic attacks" Blahblahblah...
So I asked him to join me in a doubles game. All equal points values. He is slaughtered in the second turn... So I read the codex and conclude..

-The tanks are flimsy, an assault cannon could punch through a fire prism
-Tyranids have better psychic attacks (IMHO)
-The infantry is basically target practice

They just don't seem as good as he makes them out to be..

Sternguard never die
 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

Technically, an assault cannon can punch through anything, hell they are better at killing even AV14 than Lascannons are.

With Eldar tanks, they have two big things. For Falcons and Fire Prisms, they have Holofields, this means that any penetrating hit has only a 1/9 chance of killing instead of 1/3. For Wave Serpents, anything S9/10 is only S8 and nothing gets double pen dice against them, for the front and side AV facings. This means that while you may glance/pen a Fire Prism with a Lascannon more often than you would say, a Predator, the Fire Prism is about twice as hard to *kill* as the Predator.

Eldar aren't as hard as they used to be, in 4E their Skimmerspam was nigh invincible and Eldar were absolutely horrific to have to face as a result.


With regards to Eldar Psychic powers, others have better offensive powers, but nobody can match Eldar for army support capability psychic powers. Reroll hits, reroll armor saves, reroll wounds are all great abilities.

Eldar infantry is vulnerable yes, but keep in mind that many are still very effective units. Guardians suck, but Dire Avengers are solid units, as are Scorpions, Banshees, Warp Spiders and Fire Dragons.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

DrownedRat117 wrote:Ok, I have this mate who won't shut up about his new Eldar. "Their tanks are epic", "They have the best psychic attacks" Blahblahblah...
So I asked him to join me in a doubles game. All equal points values. He is slaughtered in the second turn....


Found your problem.

If you're ony used to spase mareens then you will find yourself in trouble. If you find yourself doomed on the wrong end of a guided bladestorm you will realise how scary eldars psychic powers are. Their basic transports can't be pen'd on better than a 5+ and they can have a 3+ cover save every turn.
Once your friend has got used to playing with them you'll find out his old outdated codex will be able to give the best 5th ed books a run for their money.

   
Made in au
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter






Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

Bladestorm isn't a psychic power. Just saying.

Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.

"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





Yeah Eldars are pretty bad.

They aren't that fast. Blood Angles are faster and tougher.

They don't have the best psychic powers. Jaws of the World Wolf and psychic flying Dreadnoughts are better psykers.

And even the worst Space Marine unit, Scouts, are tougher and harder to kill! Their best units are worse than our worsest unit lol!

Go Sonic the Ultramarine! Zap to the Extreme!
 
   
Made in au
Horrific Howling Banshee





Australia

Emperors Faithful wrote:Bladestorm isn't a psychic power. Just saying.


I think he was saying how guide and doom are excellent support powers without directly doing anything to someone.

Rube wrote:Yeah Eldars are pretty bad.

They aren't that fast. Blood Angles are faster and tougher.

They don't have the best psychic powers. Jaws of the World Wolf and psychic flying Dreadnoughts are better psykers.

And even the worst Space Marine unit, Scouts, are tougher and harder to kill! Their best units are worse than our worsest unit lol!


It's not that eldar are bad, it's that they require a lot of intergration between units. Also, that doesnt prove anything other than GW has a huge hard-on for marines, and, given the option between making a xeno the best psykers or making a marine the best psyker, they will 9 times out of 10 choose the marine.

   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

You're basing your views of the Eldar army on one doubles game where your partner may or may not have played well/picked a decent army or just simply been outplayed?
Eldar are still a very solid army, sure they are a little limited when it comes to variations or some units being chosen at all but I'd play a few more games before making such a generalised statement.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

Rube wrote:Yeah Eldars are pretty bad.

They aren't that fast. Blood Angles are faster and tougher.

They don't have the best psychic powers. Jaws of the World Wolf and psychic flying Dreadnoughts are better psykers.

And even the worst Space Marine unit, Scouts, are tougher and harder to kill! Their best units are worse than our worsest unit lol!


And an Imperial Guardsman is easier to kill than scouts too. Your point is?

Gorechild wrote:Their basic transports can't be pen'd on better than a 5+ and they can have a 3+ cover save every turn.


Just throwing this out, but Tank Hunter Dreadnoughts would pen on 4+ with lascannons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/03 11:50:50


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





AlmightyWalrus wrote:And an Imperial Guardsman is easier to kill than scouts too. Your point is?


Guardsmen don't cost 16pts.

And I would rather have guardsmen than aspect warriors. Guardsmen know how to shoot at least. Long range to Eldars is 18" lol.

Go Sonic the Ultramarine! Zap to the Extreme!
 
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord




The Faye

Doesn't sound like your friend had got to grips with his eldar tbh.

Eldar are a hard army to use well. Best tactic so far is to put the farseer in a wave serpent, usually with a squad of dire avengers with bladestorm.

Doom doesn't need line of sight nor does guide so just doom things.

When the times right, jump out of the wave serpent. Guide the dire avengers, doom the target. Decimate the unit and charge what's left (provided the transport didn't move before you got out )

I think Spamming with eldar missile launchers is the way for me to go next with my Eldar, but got my new nids to sort out first.

We love what we love. Reason does not enter into it. In many ways, unwise love is the truest love. Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.

Chaos Knights: 2000 PTS
Thousand Sons: 2000 PTS - In Progress
Tyranids: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Mechanicus: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Custodes: 2000 PTS - In Progress 
   
Made in se
Wicked Warp Spider






Ios

Rube wrote:Yeah Eldars are pretty bad.

They aren't that fast. Blood Angles are faster and tougher.

They don't have the best psychic powers. Jaws of the World Wolf and psychic flying Dreadnoughts are better psykers.

And even the worst Space Marine unit, Scouts, are tougher and harder to kill! Their best units are worse than our worsest unit lol!

The toughest Eldar non-MC is T6 Armour 3+.

I'm not saying the army doesn't have issues, it is currently a bit one-hit-wonder when it comes to viable army-lists, but at least get your facts when reviewing a codex, please.

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
Made in gb
Renegade Inquisitor de Marche






Elephant Graveyard

Rube wrote:Yeah Eldars are pretty bad.

They aren't that fast. Blood Angles are faster and tougher.

They don't have the best psychic powers. Jaws of the World Wolf and psychic flying Dreadnoughts are better psykers.

And even the worst Space Marine unit, Scouts, are tougher and harder to kill! Their best units are worse than our worsest unit lol!

JotWW isn't a psyker and it isn't a particularly great power in things considered.
BA are a new codex and thus have shinier things.
Their best unit IMO is a wraithlord. Are scouts harder to kill than them? No they aren't.
Eldar are good when played well and to their strengths which is why they are difficult to play.
Ignore them at your own risk.

Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





South Africa

I think that the eldar are still competitive. They have alot of things that count in their favor.

All melta gun squads.
All Power weapon squads.
Amamzing Transports.
Most efficient HQ.

Once you put all the parts together, they really are good. My 1650 point list runs 8 skimmers and 3 troop choices. Good in objectives, good in kill point missions.

War is my master; Death my mistress - Maugan Ra 
   
Made in us
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator





I put a lot of thought into playing Eldar when I was deciding what my first army would be, and read a lot of people's musings about them. While I didn't settle on Eldar (for now, anyway), here is what my understanding is:

The Eldar are highly specialized. Their units are each geared to one particular role in the overall strategy, and they do that one thing very well. This means that they aren't well rounded, so commanding them to victory requires you to put the right unit in the right place for the job they're tailored to do. That's a lot of stuff to mess up. One Eldar player at my FLGS told me that one strategic mistake can cost him the game -- which is why he likes them, because it's challenging. Compare that with SM (which you didn't mention, but others did), who essentially have a built-in error correction for novice players because of how well-rounded they are.

Ratius wrote:You're basing your views of the Eldar army on one doubles game where your partner may or may not have played well/picked a decent army or just simply been outplayed?


QFT. I think you might find yourself more intimidated by them if you are across the table from someone more experienced, OP.

DrownedRat117 wrote:Ok, I have this mate who won't shut up about his new Eldar. "Their tanks are epic", "They have the best psychic attacks" Blahblahblah...


This is a little OT I guess, but shouldn't your friend be excited about any new army he plays? I don't know anyone who lays out the money for a new army thinking "man, these guys are going to get wiped every time I field them. I can't wait."

I know people who seem overly exuberant can grate on the nerves a little, but I guess I see it like any friend who has something new to be excited about. Be happy for him, and if it really gets to you, take it out on those pesky Eldar in a 1v1!

“Who is to judge what is right and what is wrong? Great and powerful foes surround us; unknown miscreants gnaw at us from within. We are threatened with total annihilation. In days such as these we can afford no luxury of morality.” 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

Eldar do well until they come up against strong psychic defense.

   
Made in au
Lady of the Lake






My Wraithlord has a charred Blood Angel corpse at it's feet. The reason was because there were some vocal players with an opinion much like Rube's about the Eldar. Brought it for the BA release event, with the marine already on the base. They kind of laughed at it and said it was never going to happen.

Funny thing was that it proceeded to kill so much in it's first game ever. A Landraider made the mistake of trying to Tank Shock it, I chose Death or Glory and it punched a hole clean through the raider. As it was a rather big game with a fair few people most of my army died, but the Wraithlord kept fighting until the very end of the game. Basically it took a Stormraven and a few of those strong missiles it can get, but that Wraithlord was very very lucky.

Generally though Wraithlords are pretty crappy and are best left out of the game. The army relies heavily on it's mobility and the speciality of each unit. The army will never (more like very usually) win if it charges head on into the enemy. You have to make a plan and adapt it as the battle unfolds. I use a bunch of Guardians as bait really, keeping the more useful assaulty stuff off to the side until it is forgotten.

The mass of Guardians gives the impression that that is the main force of the army. Then once they fall for it, if they fall for it. The faster units come around the sides in a pincer formation and quickly knock out the hammer. It doesn't always work and sometimes it has to be changed significantly to solve the challenge presented by the enemy forces. But the main point is to use that mobility to adapt to suit the current situation, to keep in mind what might happen so you can figure out ways to solve the situation before it happens.

Guardians should NEVER be out in the open, that's just stupid. Instead they cling to cover and add ablative wounds to the weapon system they are forced to drag along. DA should be in Wave Serpents, who cares if they have range 18" weapons when they're in a tank with the possibility of moving up to 36" in a single turn.

They can continue to work adequately even against strong psychic defense due to the runes the Farseers can take and the fact that most of the defenses have a range, the Farseer should not be at the front unless its part of a Seer Council on Jetbikes. They are supports, not hammers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/03 15:21:50


   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

Mattieau wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:Bladestorm isn't a psychic power. Just saying.


I think he was saying how guide and doom are excellent support powers without directly doing anything to someone.

Mattieau got it right (I mentioned guide and doom ). Just because using doom doesn't directly kill anything it doesn't mean its not one of the best powers in the game. When its used in harmony with the rest of the army (as eldar are supposed to be used) it can be (and normally is) devestating.

I think this is just a case of a new player not being used to the new codex. Give it time and enough practice and you might see their full potential.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

tavoittamaton wrote:I put a lot of thought into playing Eldar when I was deciding what my first army would be, and read a lot of people's musings about them. While I didn't settle on Eldar (for now, anyway), here is what my understanding is:

The Eldar are highly specialized. Their units are each geared to one particular role in the overall strategy, and they do that one thing very well. This means that they aren't well rounded, so commanding them to victory requires you to put the right unit in the right place for the job they're tailored to do. That's a lot of stuff to mess up. One Eldar player at my FLGS told me that one strategic mistake can cost him the game -- which is why he likes them, because it's challenging. Compare that with SM (which you didn't mention, but others did), who essentially have a built-in error correction for novice players because of how well-rounded they are.


QFT.

The Eldar player in our group is our best tactician, hands down. His Eldar kick my ass all of the time. I have a losing record against him, with more ties than wins.

Specialization. Mobility. Strategy. You have to be able to grasp and master all 3 to be a great Eldar player. It's not as "plug and play" as Space Marines.

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





That's what everyone says about Eldars. "They're the tactical army".

Well Blood Angles can move just as fast, so if Eldars are tactical because of positioning and movement then so are BA. Space Marines are also just as specialised, because you have devastators which are specialised at shooting, assault marines which are specialised at assaults, tactical marines which are specialised at being good at everything, etc.

Plus Eldars aren't an army of specialists because you have to spam Fire Dragons to be competitive. How is that specialised or tactical, spamming one unit!?

Go Sonic the Ultramarine! Zap to the Extreme!
 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne






Dorset, UK

They are an army of specialists, its just due to the changes between 4th and 5th Ed that a lot of them can't function in the way they were intended to any more.
Fire dragons are still competitive because the rules effecting how they are meant to be used are largely unchanged, where as banshees were nerfed by the new edition.

   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






From what it sounds like, your friend found a good smackdown list against yours, which may in part be due to luck or him finding the right counters for your forces. As everyone has said, Eldar are Specialists. If they find your weakness, they'll exploit it like there's no tomorrow. However most of their units are geared for one purpose, and your friend likely didnt count on your doubles partner or you having a different list that he didnt anticipate. Very few armies outside SMs and their variants can take on random things on the fly.

Also, Assault Cannons auto-pen any Eldar Tank on a 6, due to the rending rule.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in gb
Renegade Inquisitor de Marche






Elephant Graveyard

Rube wrote:That's what everyone says about Eldars. "They're the tactical army".

Well Blood Angles can move just as fast, so if Eldars are tactical because of positioning and movement then so are BA. Space Marines are also just as specialised, because you have devastators which are specialised at shooting, assault marines which are specialised at assaults, tactical marines which are specialised at being good at everything, etc.

Plus Eldars aren't an army of specialists because you have to spam Fire Dragons to be competitive. How is that specialised or tactical, spamming one unit!?

This quote just proves how much you don't get Eldar.
Each Eldar aspect is good at something whether it is anti-tank shooting or assaulting. These units cannot do anything else which is why Eldar players need to support their units and have a plan etc.
Marines can absorb lossses reatively easily due to T4 and 3+ save. Tactical squads can assault units if they have to they can also shoot people and ccan have a heavy weapon and a special weapon, devestators can shoot infantry and tanks, assault squads can assault infantry and tanks.
Basically SM are forgiving whereas a mistake with Eldar can cost you the game.

Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






S4 means that you, on average, wound things no worse than a 4+. Eldar possess S3, meaning they wound most things on a 4+ at best. T4 means that most things usually wound you on a 4+, 5+ at times. Eldar possesses T3, meaning they're wounded on a 3+ most of the time. A save of 3+ means that you usually get your armor save. A Save of a 4+ or 5+ means that you're often hiding in cover, as AP4 weaponry is MUCH more abundant than AP3. And a 5+ save, no matter what, is nothing to rely on in a pinch.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Junior Officer with Laspistol





University of St. Andrews

Rube wrote:
Well Blood Angles can move just as fast, so if Eldars are tactical because of positioning and movement then so are BA. Space Marines are also just as specialised, because you have devastators which are specialised at shooting, assault marines which are specialised at assaults, tactical marines which are specialised at being good at everything, etc.

Plus Eldars aren't an army of specialists because you have to spam Fire Dragons to be competitive. How is that specialised or tactical, spamming one unit!?


Space Marines really aren't as specialized....really, look at it this way. Your Assault Marines can deal with infantry, and can also deal with tanks with their grenades, and can move fast so they can get in and out of danger quickly. And, worst case scenario, and you misjudge charge? There's a pretty good chance the Assault Marines can shrug off the next turns shooting and just charge next turn.

Now lets look at Howling Banshees....Howling Banshees are a glass cannon. They hit first, and they'll shred most heavy infantry thanks to their power weapons, but if the player misjudges the charge range? Or ends up sending them up against tanks? Well, they're not gonna survive much returning fire, that's for sure.....

The point is, in a pinch, any Space Marine can do any job. Devastators are bettER at shooting than Assault Marines, but they're still WS4, S4, T4 models with a 3+ armor save, and can do close combat if they have to. Will they be much more useful elsewhere? No duh. But are they helpless in close combat? No!

And....more importantly, even if they do spam Fire Dragons, it still requires a lot of strategy and planning. Why? Because they can't just charge in. They can't expose themselves to the sheer amount of firepower armies like Guard and some Marines can throw out. They have to balance keeping their tranports hidden and in cover, versus getting within range for the melta attack. If they misjudge it in the slightest, then they'll end up out in the open, and not having done enough damage to survive the next shooting phase.

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~Fyodor Dostoevsky

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
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Made in gb
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





purplefood wrote:Each Eldars aspect is good at something whether it is anti-tank shooting or assaulting. These units cannot do anything else which is why Eldars players need to support their units and have a plan etc.
Marines can absorb lossses reatively easily due to T4 and 3+ save. Tactical squads can assault units if they have to they can also shoot people and ccan have a heavy weapon and a special weapon, devestators can shoot infantry and tanks, assault squads can assault infantry and tanks.
Basically SM are forgiving whereas a mistake with Eldars can cost you the game.


So they're the same as Space Marines only easier to kill?

Giving yourself a handicap doesn't make them more complicated to play. That's all Eldars are - exactly as tactical as Space Marines, only worse. If you play with 500pts less than your opponent you'll also have to try harder to win, but that doesn't mean playing with 500pts less makes the game more tactical!

If anything it means Eldars players are strategically inept. They couldn't even see that they were picking a bad choice of army! That's what I call bad decision making lol!

Go Sonic the Ultramarine! Zap to the Extreme!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

Guys, stop arguing with Rube. He's just trolling again.

Like here, here, and in this thread he's going into detail with eldar advice.

Sounds like someone that just like to push buttons for his own amusement. Just put him on ignore.

Edit: And again

Edit Edit: It's a shame, really. In this thread, he actually sounds like a rational, helpful person. Rube, did you have a breakdown? Are you posting drunk?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/12/03 18:39:42


DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in gb
Renegade Inquisitor de Marche






Elephant Graveyard

Rube wrote:
purplefood wrote:Each Eldars aspect is good at something whether it is anti-tank shooting or assaulting. These units cannot do anything else which is why Eldars players need to support their units and have a plan etc.
Marines can absorb lossses reatively easily due to T4 and 3+ save. Tactical squads can assault units if they have to they can also shoot people and ccan have a heavy weapon and a special weapon, devestators can shoot infantry and tanks, assault squads can assault infantry and tanks.
Basically SM are forgiving whereas a mistake with Eldars can cost you the game.


So they're the same as Space Marines only easier to kill?

Giving yourself a handicap doesn't make them more complicated to play. That's all Eldars are - exactly as tactical as Space Marines, only worse. If you play with 500pts less than your opponent you'll also have to try harder to win, but that doesn't mean playing with 500pts less makes the game more tactical!

If anything it means Eldars players are strategically inept. They couldn't even see that they were picking a bad choice of army! That's what I call bad decision making lol!

Totally inappropriate comment redacted by the Modquisition.
Some people like the challenge, what's the point of playing if it's easy?
And Eldar are harder to play because you have to actually think about what you're going to do.
They aren't the same as marines anymore than IG are.
They have a different play style, different vehicles, different units, different support units.
Just because you think it's a bad idea doesn't make it a bad idea.
Btw MOD people sorry for XXXXX. -Just don't make the comment in the first place. Two wrongs never make a right. -The Mgmt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rube wrote:
purplefood wrote:This may get me banned but if i ever meet you in real life i just may punch you in the face. Consider yourself warned.


Are you mad? You seem pretty mad.

Also lol, I'm terrified.

Not mad just wondering how someone can be so ridiculously obtuse.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/03 18:02:54


Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. 
   
Made in gb
Servoarm Flailing Magos





Rube wrote:Yeah Eldars are pretty bad.

They aren't that fast. Blood Angles are faster and tougher.

They don't have the best psychic powers. Jaws of the World Wolf and psychic flying Dreadnoughts are better psykers.

And even the worst Space Marine unit, Scouts, are tougher and harder to kill! Their best units are worse than our worsest unit lol!


Rube wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:And an Imperial Guardsman is easier to kill than scouts too. Your point is?


Guardsmen don't cost 16pts.

And I would rather have guardsmen than aspect warriors. Guardsmen know how to shoot at least. Long range to Eldars is 18" lol.


Rube wrote:That's what everyone says about Eldars. "They're the tactical army".

Well Blood Angles can move just as fast, so if Eldars are tactical because of positioning and movement then so are BA. Space Marines are also just as specialised, because you have devastators which are specialised at shooting, assault marines which are specialised at assaults, tactical marines which are specialised at being good at everything, etc.

Plus Eldars aren't an army of specialists because you have to spam Fire Dragons to be competitive. How is that specialised or tactical, spamming one unit!?


Rube wrote:
purplefood wrote:Each Eldars aspect is good at something whether it is anti-tank shooting or assaulting. These units cannot do anything else which is why Eldars players need to support their units and have a plan etc.
Marines can absorb lossses reatively easily due to T4 and 3+ save. Tactical squads can assault units if they have to they can also shoot people and ccan have a heavy weapon and a special weapon, devestators can shoot infantry and tanks, assault squads can assault infantry and tanks.
Basically SM are forgiving whereas a mistake with Eldars can cost you the game.


So they're the same as Space Marines only easier to kill?

Giving yourself a handicap doesn't make them more complicated to play. That's all Eldars are - exactly as tactical as Space Marines, only worse. If you play with 500pts less than your opponent you'll also have to try harder to win, but that doesn't mean playing with 500pts less makes the game more tactical!

If anything it means Eldars players are strategically inept. They couldn't even see that they were picking a bad choice of army! That's what I call bad decision making lol!



You're either an idiot or a troll. Either way you're on my huge ignore list now. May your banning be swift and soon.

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Umm... I don't get it.

Are people honestly saying Eldar are good because one mistake can cost a player a game? Really?

Do none of you have any idea how silly that sounds?

Let's think about this for a moment. Every army needs to be played tactically there's no doubt about it. Even with Marines you can't just take a mish mash of units and have them fire wildly around the place it just won't work. Every army should go into battle with a plan, a course of action to take, and they should be able to adapt when said plan goes pair shaped because it will. No plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

The problem is things can go pair shaped for any number of reasons. Misjudging distances is one thing, but what about dice rolls? You'll find a lot of the time dents in your plan appear because the dice turned against you. Maybe you missed that tank with your lazcannon, or you failed a save you really needed to pass.

With that in mind, most of you seem to think that it's ok that a single failed dice roll should cost an Eldar player a game and it's just not on.

Eldar aren't that bad of any army though. They can work, but unfortunately only if they are in transports. Pretty much everything needs to be in their hard to kill but overpriced transports or they die because everything is in tanks and has flamers or ignores cover nowadays. That's not really a problem with the Eldar though, that's the 5th ed codex making everything focused on Tanks.

Still get it together guys. Every army is punished by mistakes, don't make it some sort of endearing character trait that Eldar lose because of one.

   
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It make them challenging.
Some people prefer a challenge.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also most armies can absorb mistakes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/03 18:30:06


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