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Back when the Digital only Sisters codex came out I wasn't too thrilled by what came out. As such I worked on a homebrew for the army. Because of the size and formatting of it I'm not going to paste into this post here, but rather you can find it here, or attached below.

What I'm looking for is input on how to update this further for 7th edition as well as some feedback on what I've got in there. I would like to point out that there is an error of ommission in this: I forgot to include Shield of Faith. I didn't change it from what was in the regular codex though: 6++/Adamantium Will.

I'm also trying to work out ways to differentiate the Major Orders a bit with something like Chapter Tactics to represent their different personalities. Any other suggestions are fine, but I'd like to try and restrict it to things that can be represented with actual models.

So bring the fiery critiques, my soul is ready!

I'm slightly worried about leaving the Acts of Faith as one unit-one Act; that was the biggest failing of the 5e White Dwarf book and later digital books. It sticks every unit with a defined role instead of the flexibility of the 3e book's setup.

I tried to fix it in my (admittedly out of date and under-tested) Hereticus book with a system that rolls to randomly generate Faith Points (roll a die for each Faithful unit, 6+ to generate normally, 5+ for characters/Celestians/units with a Superior, reroll for a Simulacrum), which go into a central pool that can be used by any squad on a short menu of different Acts, each of which requires a Ld test to activate.

Beyond that, I'm a little weirded out by the Brazier of Holy Fire, simply on the grounds that you're never going to want to avoid using your one-shot flamer to keep a power weapon around on S3/I3 Sisters; a straight-up "power weapon that can be fired once per game as a flamer" would be easier to keep track of and more sensible. I'm unsure about the Praesidium; it was a Storm Shield that granted 4++ in the Hereticus book, I don't get where giving the Sisters of Battle a better Storm Shield fits flavour-wise or lore-wise. A Relic with the +1 A might fit better. I do get that it becomes a waste of space on characters that are running around with a 4++ from the Rosarius, but on top of that Sisters aren't supposed to be Space Marines, the 4++ stock on a Canoness feels a little too much like you're trying to make them Space Marines.

Beyond the Acts of Faith and such minor flavour concerns the biggest issues are a lack of unit options (I put the Sisters of Battle into a 3e-style Hereticus Codex with a Stormtrooper Regiment mini-list and an Inquisitorial mini-list to address the problem) and the lack of native flyers/AA (you may be able to find an old thread started by SisterSydney discussing native Sisters flyers), but those are sort of inherent in the medium if you want to do a dedicated Sisters of Battle book. The rest looks functional.


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On the off chance you're curious about the under-tested and out of date homemade book I keep mentioning it's up at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rxa1M5klrXdf3bSbUYiyq2TRBGNnXIRtl6eJxjJds_4/ (Apologies in advance for the crappy formatting)

Uh, Zion? You realise that a Mantle is a kind of cloak, too, yes?

Why no ranged attack from the Sceptre of Vengeance? pout.

No Sarissa for a bolter-armed Canoness? The Rosarius does make sense though - I think the option for a Canoness without a Rosarius in the existing codices is a nod to the idea that not all "Canonesses" are actually Canonesses, some of them are Palatines or heroic Sister Superiors.

Giving the entire BSS access to Sarissas kind of invalidates priests a little, since the Sarissa does the same thing as one of the War Hymns.

I remember the old Immolator only let a single model fire from its top hatch, with two being reserved for the larger hatch on the Rhino. I think two fire points may make the Immolator a little too good when it comes to MSU spam lists.

Celestians - why not give their specialists access to melee weapons as well? A couple of extra power weapons in the squad wouldn't break things too badly, I don't think. Also, it feels a bit wrong for Blessed Ammunition and Holy Promethium to cost the same on a unit that can have up to ten bolters, but only up to three flamers.

I do agree with Rake about the Brazier. It's always been an odd weapon, and I'm no sure about it being a power weapon, to be honest... but then, I was never really convinced on using it as a close-combat weapon in the first place.

The Praesidium's an odd one. I hate the as-is rules for Storm Shields - They should count as a close-combat weapon, not deny you one! - but giving a flat attacks bonus to the whole squad has nasty implications.

Imagine this: A Sororitas Command Squad with a Hospitaller, a Canoness, and a Banner Bearer. The Canoness has a power weapon and a Praesidium. The Banner Bearer has the Sacred Banner of the Orders Militant. The Celestians all have Power Weapons and CCWs of one form or another. Oh, and Jacobus, for laughs.

You're looking at a unit that has what... Canoness 3 + 1 for charging, +1 for the Praesidum, +1 for the sacred Banner = six attacks on her own. Each Celestian then has 2 attacks, +1 for charging, +1 for two CCW, +1 for the Praesidium, +1 for the Sacred Banner = 6 attacks each. Seven attacks each if Raging.

You're looking at seventy power weapon attacks on the charge on a unit with rerolls to morale checks against LD10, with 3+/4++ saves, Feel no Pain, at WS4, rerolling to hit (and wound, with a second priest). The price tag? A mere 335-350 points. That doesn't even take a sizable dent out of a 1500 point list. You expect to pay about that much for an elite squad in most armies, and this isn't an elite squad, it's a death star.

The obvious answer would be to say that the Praesidium doesn't stack with the Sacred Banner, which merely dials it down to a 'reasonable' sixty attacks on the charge. The other options are to push the price of power weapons back up, to reduce the number of models you can have in a command squad, or simply to reduce the number of power weapons a command squad can take.

AnomanderRake wrote:I'm slightly worried about leaving the Acts of Faith as one unit-one Act; that was the biggest failing of the 5e White Dwarf book and later digital books. It sticks every unit with a defined role instead of the flexibility of the 3e book's setup. While I agree that a table would be stronger, I originally wrote this as a submission to GW to help maybe update the Sisters in the future so I had to practice some restraint. I don't think we should go quite go back to full on book keeping mode, but then again since Psykers generate tokens a lot like how we used to generate Faith Points, it might not be a bad idea.

I tried to fix it in my (admittedly out of date and under-tested) Hereticus book with a system that rolls to randomly generate Faith Points (roll a die for each Faithful unit, 6+ to generate normally, 5+ for characters/Celestians/units with a Superior, reroll for a Simulacrum), which go into a central pool that can be used by any squad on a short menu of different Acts, each of which requires a Ld test to activate. I really don't want to go back to random Faith Point generation. It's hard to balance and it swings violently towards the extremes a lot of the time making it more about luck that anything else.

Beyond that, I'm a little weirded out by the Brazier of Holy Fire, simply on the grounds that you're never going to want to avoid using your one-shot flamer to keep a power weapon around on S3/I3 Sisters; a straight-up "power weapon that can be fired once per game as a flamer" would be easier to keep track of and more sensible. You're right, and that's definitely on my list now. Should I double down and make it a Power Maul too?

I'm unsure about the Praesidium; it was a Storm Shield that granted 4++ in the Hereticus book, I don't get where giving the Sisters of Battle a better Storm Shield fits flavour-wise or lore-wise. A Relic with the +1 A might fit better. I do get that it becomes a waste of space on characters that are running around with a 4++ from the Rosarius, but on top of that Sisters aren't supposed to be Space Marines, the 4++ stock on a Canoness feels a little too much like you're trying to make them Space Marines. I agree now that the bonus attack is likely too much. Giving them limited access to a 3++ I don't think is though. However, giving the Canoness a Roasarius standard isn't trying to make her a Marine-lite, it's trying to rebalance and overpriced HQ without cutting her points by too much. Incorporating the 4++ into her rules makes her cheaper and gets the automatic upgrade for most players out of the way right off the bat.

Beyond the Acts of Faith and such minor flavour concerns the biggest issues are a lack of unit options (I put the Sisters of Battle into a 3e-style Hereticus Codex with a Stormtrooper Regiment mini-list and an Inquisitorial mini-list to address the problem) and the lack of native flyers/AA (you may be able to find an old thread started by SisterSydney discussing native Sisters flyers), but those are sort of inherent in the medium if you want to do a dedicated Sisters of Battle book. The rest looks functional. Lack of unit options came from an attempt to fix a codex, not necessarily add to it. It's all fine and dandy to start adding things, but when you're sending it into GW you have to have some restraint. Porting over some FW options should help round out some of the sticking points regarding options, but I'm not sure we really need to put something like Storm Troopers or Inquisition in the book when they have mini-codexes and an ally system that achieves the same thing, and probably better. Other options I'm not against looking at adding, but at the same tiem I also want to practice a little restraint and not go just adding things that we can't at least proxy reasonably. We have a dearth of models in our range, yes, but at the same time I don't want to require people to need to scratch build planes to be able to use options.

Furyou Miko wrote:Uh, Zion? You realise that a Mantle is a kind of cloak, too, yes? Nope, completely slipped my mind. Guess I'll add that to the list of "can't take with Jump Pack due to fire hazard".

Why no ranged attack from the Sceptre of Vengeance? pout. Because I never thought of one? If you have any ideas feel free to pitch them

No Sarissa for a bolter-armed Canoness? Good point. I've added it to my notes

The Rosarius does make sense though - I think the option for a Canoness without a Rosarius in the existing codices is a nod to the idea that not all "Canonesses" are actually Canonesses, some of them are Palatines or heroic Sister Superiors. It's possibly a nod (or just bad writing), sure, but honestly if you're being put in charge I'd kind of expect you to be given a badge of office like a Rosarius just to cement your position in the eyes of the church.

Giving the entire BSS access to Sarissas kind of invalidates priests a little, since the Sarissa does the same thing as one of the War Hymns. Sarissas are only available on Bolters, so it only mostly invalidates them. Seriously though, with the description being a kind of spike it sounded like the kind of thing that'd be perfect for stabbing into the joints of armor pretty easily, making it more likely to wound, but not more likely to hit. If you have recommendations either way I'm up for hearing them.

I remember the old Immolator only let a single model fire from its top hatch, with two being reserved for the larger hatch on the Rhino. I think two fire points may make the Immolator a little too good when it comes to MSU spam lists. Noted.

Celestians - why not give their specialists access to melee weapons as well? A couple of extra power weapons in the squad wouldn't break things too badly, I don't think. Because I hadn't thought of it? I made a note about it though

Also, it feels a bit wrong for Blessed Ammunition and Holy Promethium to cost the same on a unit that can have up to ten bolters, but only up to three flamers. Fair point. I take it this is strictly for Celestians then? Because BSS can take more of both.

I do agree with Rake about the Brazier. It's always been an odd weapon, and I'm no sure about it being a power weapon, to be honest... but then, I was never really convinced on using it as a close-combat weapon in the first place. I'm considering just making it a Power Maul with a Combi-Flamer honestly at this point.

The Praesidium's an odd one. I hate the as-is rules for Storm Shields - They should count as a close-combat weapon, not deny you one! - but giving a flat attacks bonus to the whole squad has nasty implications. [

Imagine this: A Sororitas Command Squad with a Hospitaller, a Canoness, and a Banner Bearer. The Canoness has a power weapon and a Praesidium. The Banner Bearer has the Sacred Banner of the Orders Militant. The Celestians all have Power Weapons and CCWs of one form or another. Oh, and Jacobus, for laughs.

You're looking at a unit that has what... Canoness 3 + 1 for charging, +1 for the Praesidum, +1 for the sacred Banner = six attacks on her own. Each Celestian then has 2 attacks, +1 for charging, +1 for two CCW, +1 for the Praesidium, +1 for the Sacred Banner = 6 attacks each. Seven attacks each if Raging.

You're looking at seventy power weapon attacks on the charge on a unit with rerolls to morale checks against LD10, with 3+/4++ saves, Feel no Pain, at WS4, rerolling to hit (and wound, with a second priest). The price tag? A mere 335-350 points. That doesn't even take a sizable dent out of a 1500 point list. You expect to pay about that much for an elite squad in most armies, and this isn't an elite squad, it's a death star.

The obvious answer would be to say that the Praesidium doesn't stack with the Sacred Banner, which merely dials it down to a 'reasonable' sixty attacks on the charge. The other options are to push the price of power weapons back up, to reduce the number of models you can have in a command squad, or simply to reduce the number of power weapons a command squad can take.

Actually the obvious answer is that it only gives a bonus attack to the wielder, not to the entire unit (I'm not even sure where you got the idea that the bonus carried over to the whole unit actually). The only models in your example who can take it are the Canoness, and if you upgrade a Palatine. The Celestians have access of up to 5 Special or Heavy Weapons.

I've taken some notes, and left my own feed back in yellow just because both posts were fairly long and I didn't want to spend all day trying to play with quote tags.


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To add to the idea fest we're brewing here, I should probably add to it a look at a Sister's specific FOC like the other 7th ed books have.

Random Faith Point generation in the 1d6-per-turn the way the White Dwarf Codex did doesn't balance out, I did the random generation the way I did because it's hard to get extremes when you're rolling eight or ten dice. The Superior/character buff and the Simulacrum were there to try and mitigate the inherent randomness (and make it so that people couldn't easily game the system by including lots of cheap minimum units); I haven't done a lot of testing on the setup, but the math doesn't seem too worrisome.

The best idea I've seen for non-random Faith Point generation is one Faith Point per unit per turn with varying costs to activate on different Acts; it's more forgiving than the 3e system, but still allows the resources to be directed as needed instead of simply giving every unit a one-time buff. I almost don't care about how Faith Points are generated so long as we get back to the idea of a central pool of resources that can be directed to make part of the army stronger as you need them.

As to the list size I built my rules before there were Inquisition and Militarum Tempestus mini-Codexes; I'm almost inclined to go back and make a Codex: Minor Imperial Forces encompassing several mini-Codexes in one (Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle really don't have enough content to be full books, the Tempestus book could be expanded quite a bit, and it'd be a manageable format for making Deathwatch and Arbites rules. Maybe a special Navy Support allied detachment that gives you squadrons of planes?)

I get the idea that the bonus carries over to the unit from the line "and in addition models of the same unit of the bearer have +1 attack while the bearer is alive." in the description of the Praesidium Protectiva.

My suggestion for the Sarissa would actually be to drop it from the BSS as an option for the whole squad and keep it for elite units like Celestians and Dominions (but not Retributors because it's not their role).

The Sceptre of Vengeance, in its original rules, has... whoops. Actually, I was getting it confused with the Rod of Grace. ^^;

The Sceptre of Vengeance gave her S7 and an extra D12 armour penetration vs vehicles. It also had a -4 save modifier, equivalent to AP2 in the modern game (In comparison, the Blade of Admonition struck at S5 and only had a -2 armour save modifier).

Ah. Here's a point of interest: The original Praesidium Protectiva reflected attacks on a saving throw roll of a 6 if its unmodifiable save was used.



A Sisters-specific Force Organisation chart... hmm. Difficult.

How about something similar to the OHSF?

Compulsory:
1 HQ
1 Elites

Optional:
1 HQ
3 Elites
4 Troops
4 Fast Attack
3 Heavy Support

You trade two Compulsory Troops slots for a Compulsory elites slot and an extra Optional Fast Attack slot, to allow for more Celestians and Seraphim.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I get the idea that the bonus carries over to the unit from the line "and in addition models of the same unit of the bearer have +1 attack while the bearer is alive." in the description of the Praesidium Protectiva.

My mistake, completely missed that re-reading it this morning. Yeah, definitely needs to be thinned down a bit. Not losing attacks for having it on the model that carries it is probably the max of what it should be.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
My suggestion for the Sarissa would actually be to drop it from the BSS as an option for the whole squad and keep it for elite units like Celestians and Dominions (but not Retributors because it's not their role).

I wouldn't consider Dominions an "elite" unit honestly, at least not as elite as Celestians, but I get the point you're making.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Sceptre of Vengeance, in its original rules, has... whoops. Actually, I was getting it confused with the Rod of Grace. ^^;

The Sceptre of Vengeance gave her S7 and an extra D12 armour penetration vs vehicles. It also had a -4 save modifier, equivalent to AP2 in the modern game (In comparison, the Blade of Admonition struck at S5 and only had a -2 armour save modifier).

I tried to capture the fluff and feel of the scepter as best I could without making it really OP. I thought I did an okay job with it, but if you have any ideas how to try and make closer to the original I'm all ears.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Ah. Here's a point of interest: The original Praesidium Protectiva reflected attacks on a saving throw roll of a 6 if its unmodifiable save was used.

Wasn't that only armor saves?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
A Sisters-specific Force Organisation chart... hmm. Difficult.

How about something similar to the OHSF?

Compulsory:
1 HQ
1 Elites

Optional:
1 HQ
3 Elites
4 Troops
4 Fast Attack
3 Heavy Support

You trade two Compulsory Troops slots for a Compulsory elites slot and an extra Optional Fast Attack slot, to allow for more Celestians and Seraphim.

I can dig it. Especially since 7th drops the Dedicated Transport slot and fills it with the vehicles, so that's not a bad idea to give them a little extra room there (room to take a support Immolator for instance?).

Still trying to work on the Order Traits for the Major Orders (so the armies can feel more varied and interesting). I think a single USR per Order could work (like Stubborn on Argent Shroud), but at the same time I don't want to go too far and unbalance the army.

7th edition codices still have dedicated transport slots, they just also have the vehicle available as a fast attack choice.

Order Traits are a thorny subject, you should check out mine and SisterSydney's old homebrew threads on them. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558743.page is the one that comes to mind, although in hindsight, I went a little crazy back there!

I think that the best thing for the Sceptre of Vengeance would be to make it an AP3 power maul with armourbane, or an AP2, Unwieldy Power Maul with Rending.

... maybe just make it a rending thunder hammer? lol.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
7th edition codices still have dedicated transport slots, they just also have the vehicle available as a fast attack choice.

I'll have to look again, but I'm pretty sure they are strictly marked as FA, but are able to be taken as DTs. No DT slot in the book so they can be taken either way.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Order Traits are a thorny subject, you should check out mine and SisterSydney's old homebrew threads on them. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558743.page is the one that comes to mind, although in hindsight, I went a little crazy back there!

Yeah, going crazy is a pretty easy to do. Which is always something I worry about.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I think that the best thing for the Sceptre of Vengeance would be to make it an AP3 power maul with armourbane, or an AP2, Unwieldy Power Maul with Rending.

... maybe just make it a rending thunder hammer? lol.

The way I went with it mostly came from it's description of the way she would go swinging with it, wrecking people as she went charging in. It seem like the kind of thing what would be a way to give Sisters an anti-horde CCW of some kind.

Yeah. It also had a knockdown effect of sorts when charging, ehe. It did a lot of stuff ^^;

DT 'slots' aren't really a thing and never have been. It was just a placeholder section because they didn't fit in anywhere else in the codex. When the Immolator was a heavy support option in the WH dex, it was only listed there, not in DT, even though it was primarily a DT.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yeah. It also had a knockdown effect of sorts when charging, ehe. It did a lot of stuff ^^;

True. But that was when you had characters who could win games solo as a fairly standard part of the game and I couldn't rightly bring it back with that much awesome.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
DT 'slots' aren't really a thing and never have been. It was just a placeholder section because they didn't fit in anywhere else in the codex. When the Immolator was a heavy support option in the WH dex, it was only listed there, not in DT, even though it was primarily a DT.

It was a place holder that kept you from purchasing them solo though. That was my only point.

Before I get into it, allow me to shamelessly plug my own Sisters of Battle Codex: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/609583.page#7102148

Seriously check it out. I didn't use much restraint like you did and several units don't currently have models, but I filled in all of the unit the Sisters were lacking in, like Fliers.

Well, I know you don't want to rock the boat, but it resembles Codex: Adepta Sororitas a little too much in certain sections, like the one use Acts of Faith. Other additions aren't well though out.

Blessed Weapons are just Relic Blades. The Codex Witch Hunters Blessed weapon was Master-crafted Strength +2, One Per Army. If you want to give the Sisters something unique and fitting the fluff then I'd suggest making them Master-crafted Strength +1, or do what I did and just give them more relics too choose from. Fluff-wise there isn't a stockpile of Blessed Weapons, so I don't know why so many models can take them.

The rules for Sarrisas in my Codex were inspired by Bell of Lost Souls Ordo Hereticus Strike force update. They allow a model to charge in the assault phase after having fired there bolter, but can only hit with a 2 handed ccw in the first round.

The Condemnor Boltgun's Psi-shock rules are a bit off. What happens when a model makes a Look Out, Sir roll and allocates the wound to a Psyker.
Check my rules:
Stake: Psykers may not make Look Out, Sir rolls against wounds caused by this weapon. Any Psyker who is allocated a wound by this weapon also suffers a Perils of the Warp.

I also lowered the cost of the Condemnor Boltgun to 5 pts, because it's still highly situational and not as useful as a combi-flamer, combi-melta.

Blessed Armour is just Artificer Armour, I don't know why you needed to rename it, especially since the description isn't much different from Artificer Armour. I avoided giving the Sisters Artificer Armour in my own Codex, because I don't think it fits them.

The Praesidium Protectiva is really OP with its attack boosting ability. I just made it a Storm Shield, don't fix what ain't broken.

See my Ecclessiarchy relics for how I'd change the lot of them. I gave the Blade of Admonition Fear to match its fluff. I also made Kyinov and Praxedes characters again so they're not distilled in to their weapons.

Now onto the Canoness, especially Pride of the Order
With their limited selection of units people don't need further incentive to relegate the army to an allied detachment.

Canoness's really don't need the Rosarius, they should just be cheaper. Leave it as an option, but don't make it mandatory, especially when she can also take the Praesidium Protectiva.

Why not make the Palatine an HQ, it's not exactly a crowded field.

Celestians at 13 points just don't feel elite at all. They cost as much as a basic Chaos Space Marine. Give them more special rules and bump up their points, they should absolutely slaughter basic infantry like Tac Squads in the Assault.

Ministorum Priests are 1 of the worst additions of 6th edition, they do too much for what they cost and are almost mandatory. They're not even a Sister of Battle unit, their Ecclesiarchy. Why do Power Armour wearing Sisters drag a priest around to every battlefield, it's insane.

Why didn't you give the Penitent Engine it's Battle frenzy rule back? Also fluff wise I can't see a Penitent Engine Popping Smoke and then hiding in a defensible position. What I did was to give it Front Armour 12 to make it a bit more survivable, but more importantly I gave +D6" to it's movement meaning it can get into combat where it belongs faster.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Random Faith Point generation in the 1d6-per-turn the way the White Dwarf Codex did doesn't balance out, I did the random generation the way I did because it's hard to get extremes when you're rolling eight or ten dice. The Superior/character buff and the Simulacrum were there to try and mitigate the inherent randomness (and make it so that people couldn't easily game the system by including lots of cheap minimum units); I haven't done a lot of testing on the setup, but the math doesn't seem too worrisome.

The best idea I've seen for non-random Faith Point generation is one Faith Point per unit per turn with varying costs to activate on different Acts; it's more forgiving than the 3e system, but still allows the resources to be directed as needed instead of simply giving every unit a one-time buff. I almost don't care about how Faith Points are generated so long as we get back to the idea of a central pool of resources that can be directed to make part of the army stronger as you need them.

As to the list size I built my rules before there were Inquisition and Militarum Tempestus mini-Codexes; I'm almost inclined to go back and make a Codex: Minor Imperial Forces encompassing several mini-Codexes in one (Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle really don't have enough content to be full books, the Tempestus book could be expanded quite a bit, and it'd be a manageable format for making Deathwatch and Arbites rules. Maybe a special Navy Support allied detachment that gives you squadrons of planes?)

You must be referring to my rules, in the Codex linked to above. Your Ordo Hereticus Rules are all over the place. It's like you tried to cram Inquisition, Imperial Guard, and Sisters of Battle all into one Codex and none of it meshes well. Certain things feel forced togetther, like the Vox Bead.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
7th edition codices still have dedicated transport slots, they just also have the vehicle available as a fast attack choice.

Order Traits are a thorny subject, you should check out mine and SisterSydney's old homebrew threads on them. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558743.page is the one that comes to mind, although in hindsight, I went a little crazy back there!

I think that the best thing for the Sceptre of Vengeance would be to make it an AP3 power maul with armourbane, or an AP2, Unwieldy Power Maul with Rending.

... maybe just make it a rending thunder hammer? lol.

I don't see why the Sisters of Battle need Order traits, they don't have a lot of diversity between the orders and not every army needs that level of customization. I also don't see how to add it in without increasing the cost of all Sisters units, which would fundamentally change what they are.

 J3f wrote:
Before I get into it, allow me to shamelessly plug my own Sisters of Battle Codex: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/609583.page#7102148

Seriously check it out. I didn't use much restraint like you did and several units don't currently have models, but I filled in all of the unit the Sisters were lacking in, like Fliers. My lack of rocking the boat is because I was trying to pitch a more effective and rounded codex to GW's design team using only was was available. I know it's simple but let's be frank: there isn't a lot to work with to start with

Well, I know you don't want to rock the boat, but it resembles Codex: Adepta Sororitas a little too much in certain sections, like the one use Acts of Faith. Other additions aren't well though out. I wasn't trying to rock the boat then because of the nature of what I was sending in and why. I'm trying to update it into a viable and legitimate homebrew for people to use that is more than just the bare bones "fix what's only in the codex" approach I used before. Basically I'm taking the kid gloves off this time.

Blessed Weapons are just Relic Blades. The Codex Witch Hunters Blessed weapon was Master-crafted Strength +2, One Per Army. Relic Blades are also +2S and because of the AP values of swords, AP3. They were always basically Relic Blades, all I did was bring them back.

If you want to give the Sisters something unique and fitting the fluff then I'd suggest making them Master-crafted Strength +1, or do what I did and just give them more relics too choose from. Fluff-wise there isn't a stockpile of Blessed Weapons, so I don't know why so many models can take them. The only ones who can take them are the Canoness, the Palatine and the Sororitas Command Squad. That's actually about the same as the spread of what Relic Blades get in a Marine codex. Also if I Mastercraft them then I'd have to up the cost more and they wouldn't get used.

The rules for Sarrisas in my Codex were inspired by Bell of Lost Souls Ordo Hereticus Strike force update. They allow a model to charge in the assault phase after having fired there bolter, but can only hit with a 2 handed ccw in the first round. That feels a bit too strong honestly.

The Condemnor Boltgun's Psi-shock rules are a bit off. What happens when a model makes a Look Out, Sir roll and allocates the wound to a Psyker. Considering when I wrote it it's not off. It's an almost verbatim copy of the older rule that got replaced with the nerfed one. It needs rewriting anyways because of the dozen or so changes to the way 7th works anyways.

Check my rules:
Stake: Psykers may not make Look Out, Sir rolls against wounds caused by this weapon. Any Psyker who is allocated a wound by this weapon also suffers a Perils of the Warp. Noted.

I also lowered the cost of the Condemnor Boltgun to 5 pts, because it's still highly situational and not as useful as a combi-flamer, combi-melta. I won't go that low, as while it's situational, there are too many psykers being fielded to claim that it should be almost free.

Blessed Armour is just Artificer Armour, I don't know why you needed to rename it, especially since the description isn't much different from Artificer Armour. I avoided giving the Sisters Artificer Armour in my own Codex, because I don't think it fits them. I know it's basically the same, but I felt the changed name suited their background and flavor more. And I do think it fits. Or do you really think they can't have a 2+ save in an army that has a character in basically flying Artificer Armor with a Rosarius?

The Praesidium Protectiva is really OP with its attack boosting ability. I just made it a Storm Shield, don't fix what ain't broken. I am nerfing it (as mentioned already).

See my Ecclessiarchy relics for how I'd change the lot of them. I gave the Blade of Admonition Fear to match its fluff. I also made Kyinov and Praxedes characters again so they're not distilled in to their weapons. I was working with fixing a failure of a codex, not adding in what was already stolen. I'm not against putting Kyrinov into the book, but older characters like Praxedes or Helen are a PITA to update from 2nd so I don't know how far that'll go.

Now onto the Canoness, especially Pride of the Order
With their limited selection of units people don't need further incentive to relegate the army to an allied detachment. With how poor Sisters basically are as an ally I was trying to give them a bonus to ally with. Since 7th dropped FOC changes like that it's going away too.

Canoness's really don't need the Rosarius, they should just be cheaper. Leave it as an option, but don't make it mandatory, especially when she can also take the Praesidium Protectiva. Mainline HQs are incresingly coming standard with Invul saves. I don't really think giving it to her (previously a 15 point upgrade) and knocking 5 points off her old base cost is unfair. Not to mention you can't really make her that much cheaper without unbalancing things.

Why not make the Palatine an HQ, it's not exactly a crowded field. Because she's a watered down buget-Canoness that no one would take? If people won't take the Canoness, why would they take a Palatine on her own?

Celestians at 13 points just don't feel elite at all. They cost as much as a basic Chaos Space Marine. Give them more special rules and bump up their points, they should absolutely slaughter basic infantry like Tac Squads in the Assault. Celestians aren't a pure assault force. Also they're a point cheaper than their official version, and come with a CCW to go with their Bolt Pistol making them effectively A3. I also improved their Shield of Faith to a 5++. 13 points sounds pretty fair for those additions (I also had greatly improved their old Act of Faith by making it usable in any phase, not just assault, but that's a thing that'll change so I'm not going to stress that here). And considering what they have they are definitely "Elite" for Sisters. Bumping their points up further or adding more rules (or both) would just make them bloated and less useful.

Ministorum Priests are 1 of the worst additions of 6th edition, they do too much for what they cost and are almost mandatory. They're not even a Sister of Battle unit, their Ecclesiarchy. Why do Power Armour wearing Sisters drag a priest around to every battlefield, it's insane. You really need to read up on your fluff because priests going to war when Sisters do is pretty common. Also priests roll with the IG, are you really saying that if they can roll with the main army of the Imperium (because the Guard are the main basic army), they can't roll with the holy warriors who work with and for them?

Why didn't you give the Penitent Engine it's Battle frenzy rule back? Also fluff wise I can't see a Penitent Engine Popping Smoke and then hiding in a defensible position. What I did was to give it Front Armour 12 to make it a bit more survivable, but more importantly I gave +D6" to it's movement meaning it can get into combat where it belongs faster. Smoke has uses on moving vehicles too. But I dropped it 10 points, and at the time I didn't consider giving it back Battle Frenzy. Honestly I think I'd rather give it Rampage instead because it fits what the Engine does: run into a large blob of enemies and start threshing. The bonus attacks gets a bit silly balance wise too. Yes, it wasn't as bad as the infinite attacks of the Death Company Dreadnought, but it was still silly.

I don't see why the Sisters of Battle need Order traits, they don't have a lot of diversity between the orders and not every army needs that level of customization. I also don't see how to add it in without increasing the cost of all Sisters units, which would fundamentally change what they are. It goes back to the fluff. Each of the Major Orders is very different in personality and fighting style. The Order of the Sacred for example is described like this: "The order strives to emulate their patron saint and her virtues of discipline, even-temperment, and resolute determination. This resolve to stay calm in battle has particularly benefited Retributor Squads, who use her as a role model to avoid doubt and rash action while wielding their heavy weapons.". Allowing players to feel like their hard work for building an order is rewarded is the same thing that every player wants with every codex. It's not really fair that the only ones who get any variant rules based on color scheme are the Marines and more flavor and variety isn't a bad thing.

 J3f wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Random Faith Point generation in the 1d6-per-turn the way the White Dwarf Codex did doesn't balance out, I did the random generation the way I did because it's hard to get extremes when you're rolling eight or ten dice. The Superior/character buff and the Simulacrum were there to try and mitigate the inherent randomness (and make it so that people couldn't easily game the system by including lots of cheap minimum units); I haven't done a lot of testing on the setup, but the math doesn't seem too worrisome.

The best idea I've seen for non-random Faith Point generation is one Faith Point per unit per turn with varying costs to activate on different Acts; it's more forgiving than the 3e system, but still allows the resources to be directed as needed instead of simply giving every unit a one-time buff. I almost don't care about how Faith Points are generated so long as we get back to the idea of a central pool of resources that can be directed to make part of the army stronger as you need them.

As to the list size I built my rules before there were Inquisition and Militarum Tempestus mini-Codexes; I'm almost inclined to go back and make a Codex: Minor Imperial Forces encompassing several mini-Codexes in one (Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle really don't have enough content to be full books, the Tempestus book could be expanded quite a bit, and it'd be a manageable format for making Deathwatch and Arbites rules. Maybe a special Navy Support allied detachment that gives you squadrons of planes?)

You must be referring to my rules, in the Codex linked to above. Your Ordo Hereticus Rules are all over the place. It's like you tried to cram Inquisition, Imperial Guard, and Sisters of Battle all into one Codex and none of it meshes well. Certain things feel forced togetther, like the Vox Bead.

That's entirely possible.

My theory was to build something that works like the old 3e Ordo Hereticus book and MrSako's 5e Inquisition rules (http://warhammergames.ru/_ld/1/149_Warhammer_40k-C.pdf in case anyone's curious), but the way the Codex structure of 7e is set up I may end up backing off and doing a Codex: Minor Imperial Armies with several mini-Codexes (fixed/expanded GK, Sisters, Tempestus, new Deathwatch, possibly Arbites and Imperial Navy).

Ministorum Priests have been part of the SoB battle line since their inception in 1998, so I don't know why anyone would claim they're a bad addition for sixth...

Of course, what I really want to do is give them an option to take Power Armour, because Sisters Sabine.

About the only thing I agree with from J3f's post is the idea that the Blade of Admonition could have Fear - that was one of its original properties, kind of, but that was before it was re-fluffed to be Alicia Dominica's sword instead of a random terrifying blade o' mediocre doom.

There are plenty of Blessed Weapons laying around, anyway. Heck, four of them have names:

Blade of Admonition
Axe of Retribution
Flail of Chastisement
Staff of Belief

If you want to include those attached to named characters as well, you also get,
Ardent Blade
Mace of Valaan
Rod of Grace
Sceptre of Vengeance
Redeemer (OK, a bit out of synch since it's a shotgun, but still, it IS a blessed weapon)

Not to mention in the WDDex Altar of Battle, one of the missions let you find them as objectives!

As for updating Praxedes and Helena, it's not so hard.

Praxedes (180 points)
Canoness statline (originally, she was a Canoness with -1 Initiative, but since that was from 7 down to 6...)
Wargear: Power Armour, Cloak of St. Aspira, Bolter, Meltabombs, Krak and Frag Grenades, the Sceptre of Vengeance, Purity Seal, Auspex
Special Rules: Shield of Faith, Acts of Faith, Irresistible Charge
Warlord Trait: Inspirational Leader

Irresistible Charge: When Praxedes assaults an enemy unit, she has the Furious Charge and Knockdown special rules.

Inspirational Leader: All friendly units within 12" of Saint Praxedes may use her unmodified Leadership score for morale tests.

Sceptre of Vengeance: (hard bit, I still think +2 Str, AP2, Armourbane, Concussive)

Helena the Virtuous (150 points)
WS 4 BS 4 S 3 T 3 W3 I3 A3 LD 10 3+/4++
Wargear: Power Armour, Rosarius, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades, Rod of Grace, Purity Seal, Mantle of Ophelia
Special Rules: Shield of Faith, Acts of Faith, Supremely Faithful, Revered Leader, Bodyguard
Warlord Trait: Holy Radiance

Supremely Faithful: All friendly models within 12" automatically pass any War Hymns or Acts of Faith tests they are required to make.

Revered Leader: If Helena suffers a wound, all models taken from the same detachment as her gain Hatred (The Enemy). If she dies, all models from the same detachment as her also gain Fearless. If Helena is taken, she must be the army warlord. If she is slain, she grants an additional Victory Point to the enemy.

Bodyguard: Helena must always be accompanied by a Sororitas Command Squad.

Holy Radiance: All friendly, fleeing Imperial models within 12" of Helena at the start of their turn rally automatically.

Rod of Grace: A Crozius Arcanum with two profiles:
BEAM: Rng 6 S6 AP2
MACE: Rng - Sx2, AP2, Concussive, Unwieldy

Essentially, the Rod of Grace is a thunder hammer that can be used from 6" away, heh.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 J3f wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Random Faith Point generation in the 1d6-per-turn the way the White Dwarf Codex did doesn't balance out, I did the random generation the way I did because it's hard to get extremes when you're rolling eight or ten dice. The Superior/character buff and the Simulacrum were there to try and mitigate the inherent randomness (and make it so that people couldn't easily game the system by including lots of cheap minimum units); I haven't done a lot of testing on the setup, but the math doesn't seem too worrisome.

The best idea I've seen for non-random Faith Point generation is one Faith Point per unit per turn with varying costs to activate on different Acts; it's more forgiving than the 3e system, but still allows the resources to be directed as needed instead of simply giving every unit a one-time buff. I almost don't care about how Faith Points are generated so long as we get back to the idea of a central pool of resources that can be directed to make part of the army stronger as you need them.

As to the list size I built my rules before there were Inquisition and Militarum Tempestus mini-Codexes; I'm almost inclined to go back and make a Codex: Minor Imperial Forces encompassing several mini-Codexes in one (Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle really don't have enough content to be full books, the Tempestus book could be expanded quite a bit, and it'd be a manageable format for making Deathwatch and Arbites rules. Maybe a special Navy Support allied detachment that gives you squadrons of planes?)

You must be referring to my rules, in the Codex linked to above. Your Ordo Hereticus Rules are all over the place. It's like you tried to cram Inquisition, Imperial Guard, and Sisters of Battle all into one Codex and none of it meshes well. Certain things feel forced togetther, like the Vox Bead.

That's entirely possible.

My theory was to build something that works like the old 3e Ordo Hereticus book and MrSako's 5e Inquisition rules (http://warhammergames.ru/_ld/1/149_Warhammer_40k-C.pdf in case anyone's curious), but the way the Codex structure of 7e is set up I may end up backing off and doing a Codex: Minor Imperial Armies with several mini-Codexes (fixed/expanded GK, Sisters, Tempestus, new Deathwatch, possibly Arbites and Imperial Navy).

MrSako's Inquisition Codex has enough content to fill 4 or 5 Codexes. The Sisters of Battle and the Grey Knights deserve their own fully fledged codexes. I already Covered Sisters and the Ordo Hereticus in my own Codex. I would like to see Grey Knights go back to being Daemon Hunters and incorporating The Ordo Malleus. Death Watch should be in an Ordo Xenos Codex to complete the Inquisition Trifecta. Just call it Codex Inquisition and toss in Inquisitorial Storm Troopers and Arbitres.

You mean add a Deathwatch option to Codex: Inquisition, ne?

Although their ISS and Arbite rules are kinda sucky at the moment.

 J3f wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 J3f wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Random Faith Point generation in the 1d6-per-turn the way the White Dwarf Codex did doesn't balance out, I did the random generation the way I did because it's hard to get extremes when you're rolling eight or ten dice. The Superior/character buff and the Simulacrum were there to try and mitigate the inherent randomness (and make it so that people couldn't easily game the system by including lots of cheap minimum units); I haven't done a lot of testing on the setup, but the math doesn't seem too worrisome.

The best idea I've seen for non-random Faith Point generation is one Faith Point per unit per turn with varying costs to activate on different Acts; it's more forgiving than the 3e system, but still allows the resources to be directed as needed instead of simply giving every unit a one-time buff. I almost don't care about how Faith Points are generated so long as we get back to the idea of a central pool of resources that can be directed to make part of the army stronger as you need them.

As to the list size I built my rules before there were Inquisition and Militarum Tempestus mini-Codexes; I'm almost inclined to go back and make a Codex: Minor Imperial Forces encompassing several mini-Codexes in one (Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle really don't have enough content to be full books, the Tempestus book could be expanded quite a bit, and it'd be a manageable format for making Deathwatch and Arbites rules. Maybe a special Navy Support allied detachment that gives you squadrons of planes?)

You must be referring to my rules, in the Codex linked to above. Your Ordo Hereticus Rules are all over the place. It's like you tried to cram Inquisition, Imperial Guard, and Sisters of Battle all into one Codex and none of it meshes well. Certain things feel forced togetther, like the Vox Bead.

That's entirely possible.

My theory was to build something that works like the old 3e Ordo Hereticus book and MrSako's 5e Inquisition rules (http://warhammergames.ru/_ld/1/149_Warhammer_40k-C.pdf in case anyone's curious), but the way the Codex structure of 7e is set up I may end up backing off and doing a Codex: Minor Imperial Armies with several mini-Codexes (fixed/expanded GK, Sisters, Tempestus, new Deathwatch, possibly Arbites and Imperial Navy).

MrSako's Inquisition Codex has enough content to fill 4 or 5 Codexes. The Sisters of Battle and the Grey Knights deserve their own fully fledged codexes. I already Covered Sisters and the Ordo Hereticus in my own Codex. I would like to see Grey Knights go back to being Daemon Hunters and incorporating The Ordo Malleus. Death Watch should be in an Ordo Xenos Codex to complete the Inquisition Trifecta. Just call it Codex Inquisition and toss in Inquisitorial Storm Troopers and Arbitres.

One unit with six names does not a full Codex make.

The Sisters might be able to run as a standalone with a slight expansion of Ecclesiarchy options, but the Grey Knights as a standalone don't have enough variability or functionality after the Inquisition and Stormtrooper content got stripped out. Doing a set of smaller lists for the GK, Sisters, and Deathwatch with central Stormtroopers and Inquisition common to all three eliminates a lot of redundancy between the three books.

Yay, Sororitas fandexes! I am giddy with sleep deprivation but will attempt to say sensible things.

Army-wide:
- The Faithful rule: Like it. A flavorful upgrade to mark elite Sisters, as you say.
- Acts of Faith: I like the flavor each unit gets from a unique AOF, actually. I'd just like each unit to have its unique AOF and access to a list of AOF shared by all Sisters.
- Order Traits: I ended up doing them as Relics, so you could pay points for them, because something something balance.
- "Look out sir ma'am!" on the Signifer (simulacrum bearer): good, plugs a hole.

Unit by unit:
- Canoness: Free Rosarius makes much sense. "Pride of the Order" is obsolete given 7e alliance shennigans.
- SCS: agree with J3f that the Palatine should be an IC and a "junior HQ" in her own right, like the SM Chaplain & Librarian, able to lead a (presumably small) detachment in the absence of a Canoness, rather than a SCS member. Customizable SCS size is sensible.
- Arco-Flagellants as Beasts: yes yes yes yessssss
- Dominion flamers gain Shred instead of (redundant) Ignore Cover: yessss it burns prettily yessssssss

 SisterSydney wrote:

- Acts of Faith: I like the flavor each unit gets from a unique AOF, actually. I'd just like each unit to have its unique AOF and access to a list of AOF shared by all Sisters.

So basically, both 3rd and 5th edition's approach to AoF then?

Thinking of AoF, I'm thinking Faith Points would be generated as 1 per unit with Shield Faith (and a bonus point per Faithful unit (so a Canoness would generate two for example).

 SisterSydney wrote:
- Order Traits: I ended up doing them as Relics, so you could pay points for them, because something something balance.

I don't like them costing points considering Marines don't pay for Chapter Tactics. It feels like a bit of a slap to have to pay points when the poster boys don't.

 SisterSydney wrote:
"Pride of the Order" is obsolete given 7e alliance shennigans.

Yeah, that's gone now.

 SisterSydney wrote:
- SCS: agree with J3f that the Palatine should be an IC and a "junior HQ" in her own right, like the SM Chaplain & Librarian, able to lead a (presumably small) detachment in the absence of a Canoness, rather than a SCS member. Customizable SCS size is sensible.

I'll have to play with it I guess because I don't really know if making her a stand alone really makes her usable. I mean the Canoness isn't the strongest IC HQ out there, and the Palatine is a budget version of her.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Overall, this is a good start -- but it doesn't address the fundamental shortfall of the Sisters: They just don't have enough variety in their codex. That's why I've been homebrewing so many crazy things... I should take inspiration from you to compile all the ones that (mostly) worked into one thread.

At the time I wrote this I limited myself to what existed in the codex and trying to address it. It was more strictly a way to pitch to GW how to better internally balance the book and make everything feel viable than a true expansion and upgrade of the army.

Since I'm throwing those shackles off I'm looking at bringing other stuff (all the FW things, that homebrew return of the Drop Pod, a Build-Your-Own-Saint Generic HQ ala Phoenix Lords or C'Tan Shards, ect) into the mix. And while I am looking to get a bit creative, I am looking to try and build things around things that exist, though some stealing from other armies may need to be done to do it (Landraiders...maybe Baal Predators......ect).

I disagree on Land Raiders - the fluff explicitly states that the AdMech agreed to only give them to Space Marines, and that any Inquisitor who turns up with one has basically stolen it.

I agree with Furyou about Land Raiders. On the other hand, Predator Infernus is a natural for Sisters.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:

- Acts of Faith: I like the flavor each unit gets from a unique AOF, actually. I'd just like each unit to have its unique AOF and access to a list of AOF shared by all Sisters.

So basically, both 3rd and 5th edition's approach to AoF then?

Yes. "The best of both worlds" -- which unfortunately makes me think of the theme song for Hannah Montana (remember, when Sister Miley was a demure little thing, before she went all Repentia?) -- but I digress/

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I disagree on Land Raiders - the fluff explicitly states that the AdMech agreed to only give them to Space Marines, and that any Inquisitor who turns up with one has basically stolen it.

Which fluff exactly? Because I don't recall anything of the sort.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I disagree on Land Raiders - the fluff explicitly states that the AdMech agreed to only give them to Space Marines, and that any Inquisitor who turns up with one has basically stolen it.

Which fluff exactly? Because I don't recall anything of the sort.

Who says there can't be an Inquisitor who stole several and passed them on to Sisters of Battle forces? Or a Forge World in a region of space without a lot of Space Marines who built a few for the Sisters because they needed someone to run about with them?

Also it gives folks an excuse to convert their own Land Raider Helios with the pipe organ on the back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Back to the general versus unique Acts of Faith I think J3f's approach is actually a pretty good compromise; there's a common pool for everyone, but each unit gets a greater effect using 'their' Act, even though everyone can use it.

Heck with the Ecclesiarchy's resources, ties and wealth I'm sure they can leverage some of the Mechanicus who believe that the Emperor is the Omnissiah for support (and as such, Land Raiders).

Mainly I was looking at the Crusader and Redeemer since those fit the army the best (though that Assault Cannon might need to be swapped for a Heavy Bolter or something to fit better). They'd basically be rolling Battle Cathedrals for the Sisters and they'd fit very nicely that way too I think.

Just read through

Lots of good work and really like that you took the time to explain your chnages - as yet another author of a fan made AS codex (are there any Sisters players who have not done so ???) my thoughts

I like the current version of Acts of Faith so much more in the GW Codex than previous iterations.
Must admit I prefer the GW Codex Light of the Emperor for Battle Sisters - prefered Enemy is great.
I like the new "Faithful" rule.

Weapons list is all good.
Blessed Weapon = Relic Blade - agree thats what I did
Blessed Armour - personally I think Artifcer armour is fine - especially for notables such as the Cannoness - they go to great lengths to equip the Sisters with excellent armour and equipment and this should extend to their leaders armour.............
Relics - good to see you can atacually now take more than one as a Canonness.

Units
No St Celestine? Add if you can: Canoness Praxedes of Ophelia VII and Helena the Virtuous, Prioress of the Convent Sanctorum

Cannoness - def agree the Rosarius is stock
Still would prefer an option for a lower ranked leader - the Palatine in her own right?
Seraphim with a re-rollable 5++ might be a bit nasty?

Penitent Engines - I guess we really should make them into Monsterous Creature s- pretty much every other "walker" is one now............

Suggested addiitons:

Frateris Militia Band - basically Cultists
Drop Pods - Dominca pattern Drop Pod is canon
I like the idea of someone ion the force to maintian and repair the vehicles - either special Mechanicum or Techmarine style Sisters- both have been done well in fan ficition and fan codexes.

The fluff for Land Raiders has changed quite a bit over editions - at the beginning everyone used it - Imperial Army etc, later on it became Maries only and its presently back to Marines, Mechanicum and Inquisiton.

good work

 Mr Morden wrote:
http://www.mangahere.co/manga/hajime_no_ippo/v07/c056/20.htmlNo St Celestine? Add if you can: Canoness Praxedes of Ophelia VII and Helena the Virtuous, Prioress of the Convent Sanctorum

Celestine was left out (as was the Rhino) because I had no proposed changes to them when I sent it into GW. I think Making her a LoW and giving her EW is about all I can think of for an update on her.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Penitent Engines - I guess we really should make them into Monsterous Creature s- pretty much every other "walker" is one now............

Dreadnoughts, Helbrutes, and Sentinels aren't to think of a few. But it is tempting. That is if it didn't make them useless against Dark Eldar and their love of poisoned weapons.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Frateris Militia Band - basically Cultists

More or less my thought honestly. They don't need to be complex, just lots of cheap bodies.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Drop Pods - Dominca pattern Drop Pod is canon

Oh I've done rules for it before.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I like the idea of someone ion the force to maintian and repair the vehicles - either special Mechanicum or Techmarine style Sisters- both have been done well in fan ficition and fan codexes.

Since the Mechanicum doesn't get to touch the Exoricsts (in the old fluff) I'd almost say it'd be a Sister, but then how are they trained? One of those "too many questions" things I guess. But yeah, Sister with a Servo Arm.

 Mr Morden wrote:
The fluff for Land Raiders has changed quite a bit over editions - at the beginning everyone used it - Imperial Army etc, later on it became Maries only and its presently back to Marines, Mechanicum and Inquisiton.

I get not giving them to the Guard (they have other large transports anyways), but Sisters I feel owning a few (and I do mean very few, with them likely old enough to be relics in their own right) seems fitting to me.

 Mr Morden wrote:
good work

Thanks!

Silly sidenote going through the Acts of Faith: Divine Guidance is the only one that's done the same thing through all three of the Ordo Hereticus, 5e White Dwarf Sisters, and 6e Adepta Sororitas books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the Tech-Sister I can't find any reference to Mechanicum-trained Sisters in the Dark Heresy books, and the Ordo Hereticus book makes reference to Techpriests that service the Exorcists. I'd rather do Techpriests seconded to the Sisters by the Mechanicum, it makes them feel less like SM-lite to me.

I think either way of doing the Tech aspect works - ether Enginseers or "Techmarines"

I went for:

Apparatus Guardianus
The Adepta Sororitas maintain a body of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for the powerful and arcane machinery at their disposal them. Years of training go towards achieving this respected position and aspirants must learn how to
divine the runes of engineering, memorise the liturgy of maintenance and constantly study the routines of service. It is a position of great honour to care for this sacred technology and the Sororitas were granted this concession from the
Adeptus Mechancius following the Icara Crusade. Apparatus gaurdianus are seldom risked din battle for they are invaluable in not merely maintaining the Orders weaponry and vehicles but passing that knowledge to their aspirants

I can dig Enginseers. At least there is an existing model for it so the conversion requirement drops.