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combatmedic wrote:Imp Guard: Back in the day the ogryns used to be a decent anti-assault unit. With the new codex however, their usefulness seems less rewarding.

When was this, 1994? Ogryns have been gak as far as the 3rd edition BBB armylist.

Ogryns are fine now, IMO. They can actually take hits and dish out a fair bit of S6 pain on-the-charge.

They're still overpriced, though.

Nork Deddog costs as much as a unit of 3 ogryn including the bone 'ead... yet has the same number of wounds as a standard ogryn. Pure fail.

Sorry if people has said before VAN-FRINKIN-GUARD!!!!!

I think Nork is OK. He's good against assault armies when they're targeting your CCS.

Cheese Elemental wrote:I think Nork is OK. He's good against assault armies when they're targeting your CCS.

Because he provides 3 wounds that have FNP... but are generally still going to be wounded against at T3? You could get better effect for cheaper from 2 body guards and a medic in the command squad. The only thing Nork is good against would be Str 6-9 wounds that aren't power weapon wounds... lets see what units can do that... Wraiths... well, that's it, I'm fresh out.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Ogryns are fine now, IMO. They can actually take hits and dish out a fair bit of S6 pain on-the-charge.

They're still overpriced, though.

Fine?! What part of them is fine? The part that allows armor saves for every one of their attacks? Their pitiful Initiative? Their nonexistent mobility? The complete lack of options or support units? The insultingly high cost?

Ogryns are pitiful, completely unfit to exist as a unit in anyone's armylist.

You seem to have a lot of suppressed rage towards them. Did your Ogryn minis come alive and attack you when you were a little kid?

I personally include Ogryns to go with my mighty muscular Catachans, but only against armies with bad saves like 'nids and Orks.

It might have something to do with the fact that I own fifteen, and every time I use them they get absolutely shredded.

You know they shouldn't be rampaging ahead, right?

I keep them near the fowardmost PCS until they're needed.

Fundamentally, the problem is that what the Ogryns excel at, IG does not need. Anything that's squishy enough to be threatened by them, is squishy enough to destroy via battlecannon.

Ah, but sometimes those battlecannons are too risky to use. I've had my Executioner blow up half a platoon single-handedly once.

If your opponent is smart, a battlecannon will have a helluva time removing an infantry unit in cover off an objective.

Ogryns, however, can charge the unit to either pull them off the objective, or even to kill them. There's nothing wrong with a boatload of STR6 attacks, even if your opponent has an armor save. Ask any player that uses war walkers.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Gandair wrote:
Chaos Spawn I use all the time...
Ahriman turns people into them *tee hee*

Of course, the big problem is having enough Spawn models to handle his prodigious Gift of Chaos.

This is true, I won't be able to truly spam it like I want to for a very very long time.

I noticed that a squad of Ogryns are good for stopping a fast attack or outflankers from hitting your gunlines... by the time something gets through the Ogryns, you will be ready for them...

Another use for Ogryns is to pull things out of your gun lines or objectives and keep them out of there for a good while.

Unless you see S10 weapons, a squad of Ogryns will not be going anywhere for a while...

Yeah, I think some people are under estimating what 3 T5 wounds take to kill.

willydstyle wrote:If your opponent is smart, a battlecannon will have a helluva time removing an infantry unit in cover off an objective.

Ogryns, however, can charge the unit to either pull them off the objective, or even to kill them. There's nothing wrong with a boatload of STR6 attacks, even if your opponent has an armor save. Ask any player that uses war walkers.

They aren't armor and they have 5+ saves. A group of 10 marines using basic bolters will do a little over 4 wounds to an Ogryn squad. Grey Knight Terms are only 6 pts more.



For 130 points (That's a base squad of only 3 Ogryns) Guard have a Fast Attack AV 12 tank that will put out a Flamer Template with a 2+ to wound, AP 3 no Armor saves....plus another Heavy Flamer template. That will pretty much remove any unit in the game. As an opponent of guard, I'm worried about Mech Guard armies with Chimeras/Banewolfs/Russ/Valk Vets. 40 point Ogryns with a 5+ save, not so much.

Techmarine for space marines.

But not the Master of the Forge. Six dreads, please!

I ran a 6 dread list in the prior edition. It was awesome. Troops all in Razorbacks.

Good times.

Ogryn can be alot of fun to play with. I dig em'. Worst unit in the guard book, bar none is Sly 'Guardsmen' Marbo, the free killpoint.

Kungfuhustler wrote:Ogryn can be alot of fun to play with. I dig em'. Worst unit in the guard book, bar none is Sly 'Guardsmen' Marbo, the free killpoint.

You mean Sly "Gets back his points and then some" Marbo

Kungfuhustler wrote:Ogryn can be alot of fun to play with. I dig em'. Worst unit in the guard book, bar none is Sly 'Guardsmen' Marbo, the free killpoint.

What, Sly Marbo, the 65pt deom charge from nowhere? A Str 10 AP2 large blast that arrives anywhere on the board?
For me he's one of the best things in the book for his points.

Chaos-Possessed, waste of points

I'd like to chime in with an apocalypse opinion.
Anyone remember that Tide of Spawn formation? You get 10 CSM (basic marines). Then, they all turn into spawn.
I would much rather have the regular marines. Someone mentioned that regular CSM were the worst, with which I heartily disagree. Their gear (bolter, pistol, CCW) along with their high LD and everything else that comes with being a MEQ makes them an amazing troops choice.

My Tau friend's pathfinders always die way too easily so they have yet to kill their points value.

For BT, I'd say that Sword Brethren have amazing models and decent rules, but the fact that they share an Elite slot with superior terminators, dreads and (jump pack) techmarines means that they're rarely fielded.

SW: Blood Claws with jump packs. Why?

Vindicators, again in reaction to an earlier post are wonderful. Str10 AP2 ordnance. Now that they can move 6" and dish one out per turn, I don't see any reason why not. Unless you're an idiot who lets it run around unsupported. Then I guess you deserve to lose it.

I took a vindy just for fun and to fill out points for a Regular Termi Assault list (from C:SM, not my poor DA) and parked it and a jp Chappy on an objective.

Eldar never came near it.

Not adding anything new here, just my vote on 'Rippers' for the Nids.

Would be nice if they were add-ons to other broods instead of taking up a scoring slot to include in your list and then be NON-SCORING.

I wouldn't mind their writeup as-is, if you could add 1-3 bases of Ripper Swarms as an upgrade option for Tyranid broods (go ahead and add a KP for them, that's cool).

I'd say that Ripper Swarms should be available add-ons to...
- HQ's which do not have a retinue (winged HQ's must equip Ripper Swarms with wings as well)
- Tyranid Warriors (fast attack Warriors must equip the same movement biomorph to the Ripper Swarms as well)
- Gaunts
- Carnifex
- Zoanthropes
- Biovores

Ripper Swarms must deploy with the unit they were purchsed with but are not subject to Brood coherency rules thereafter. They will follow all of the existing Ripper Swarms write-up rules as in the Tyranids codex otherwise.

Maybe too much... but my 2 cents, I'd certainly use them if they could be bought OTHER THAN as a Troops choice.
Perhaps just making them 'Fast Attack' choice (whether they have the 'Winged' biomorph or not) would work as well.

Didn't realize ripper swarms were a troops choice. I guess they fall in line with Nurglings? Necron Scarabs are a FA or created by Tomb Spyders. Maybe they could be "created" on a per turn basis with biovores?

Uriels_Flame wrote:I haven't had much luck fielding Storm Boyz - they seem very fragile for the ability just to by Jump Pack troops.

I guess if I run a max group?

Storm Boyz are fine, i run a squad of 20 and the only time they fail me is if they get to far ahead of my force or seperated somehow. Run them in KoS and see how they do when the rest of your army moves as fast or faster then they do.