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Nurgleboy77 wrote:

avantgarde wrote:Lootas, they suck BS2 with d3 shots whatever.

Flash gitz are much better especially upgrade all the way since they have two wounds, work better with boyz because of they're close range weapons and have a reliable number of shots that can upgraded.

So guys with shorter range, same BS and only 1 shot for more than 150% the cost are BETTER?!

Haha, read the thread. He was self-admittedly trolling.

Eldar: Hawks.

SM: LOTD

Orks: Flash Gits

Necrons: Pariahs

DE: Hellions

IG: Ogryns

Chaos: Spawns

Nids: Biovores.

Dave47 wrote:

Emrab wrote:
Seriously? The orbital stike is much worse. So what they do something random. If you get bloodboil you drop a ordanance blast that hits everything but you and you can run before you decide to drop it or drop it then run. The fact that you can also by chance warp out of CC or regain all 4 wounds it nice as well.
Oribital Stike=
Player 1: Right my orbital strike is landing....scatter....crap.....misses everything......
Player 2: Moves units away from terrain
Player 1: What a waste of 60 points (min)

There's no doubt that Orbital Strikes were badly nerfed by the change from Ordinance scattering 1d6 to scattering 2d6 minus BS. That said, since 2/3rds of missions involve holding specific places on the board, it strikes me that it should be possible to do something useful with an Orbital Strike.

I would argue that Death Cult Assassins are far, far worse.

Oh Very true. I forgot about those because of how completely useless they are. In no way shape or form would they every help you unless you are trying to lose the game.

willydstyle wrote:New Guard: Nork Deddog. In fact, I think he gains the award for most useless ever.

More useless than the space pope? 200ish points for a t3 model with no ranged attack (in a shooting based army) that could make your entire army run off the table if he dies sure he makes everyone stubborn but with ld7 who cares?

Aftersong wrote:

willydstyle wrote:New Guard: Nork Deddog. In fact, I think he gains the award for most useless ever.

More useless than the space pope? 200ish points for a t3 model with no ranged attack (in a shooting based army) that could make your entire army run off the table if he dies sure he makes everyone stubborn but with ld7 who cares?

At least the space pope can make the unit he's with fearless, so he has some utility. My last post on Nork got lost at the end of the last page, but I give a pretty detailed breakdown on why he's horribly stupid.

willydstyle wrote:At least the space pope can make the unit he's with fearless, so he has some utility. My last post on Nork got lost at the end of the last page, but I give a pretty detailed breakdown on why he's horribly stupid.

Counterpoint: Nork does not give up a kill point, and when he dies something good happens.

But at this point, I think we really need to come up with a better definition of "useless." If the question is "what unit is the worst in competitive tournament play?" then I would say the answer is clearly the Space Pope. A competitive tournament list will find a way to kill him and break your army, and having Tau be stubborn isn't always a good thing. ("Oh boy, I didn't break! Now my fire lanes are clogged, and your Terminators are safe!") Nork is a gigantic point sink in a competitive list, but he's not going to actively screw over your army.

But if the question is "What unit is useless in every scenario against every army?" then I would go with the Death Cult Assassins. Even if you know the mission and your opponent ahead of time, I still can't come up with a scenario where I would think to myself. "Ahh, better take the Death Cultists for this game!"

Dave47 wrote:

willydstyle wrote:At least the space pope can make the unit he's with fearless, so he has some utility. My last post on Nork got lost at the end of the last page, but I give a pretty detailed breakdown on why he's horribly stupid.

Counterpoint: Nork does not give up a kill point, and when he dies something good happens.

But at this point, I think we really need to come up with a better definition of "useless." If the question is "what unit is the worst in competitive tournament play?" then I would say the answer is clearly the Space Pope. A competitive tournament list will find a way to kill him and break your army, and having Tau be stubborn isn't always a good thing. ("Oh boy, I didn't break! Now my fire lanes are clogged, and your Terminators are safe!") Nork is a gigantic point sink in a competitive list, but he's not going to actively screw over your army.

But if the question is "What unit is useless in every scenario against every army?" then I would go with the Death Cult Assassins. Even if you know the mission and your opponent ahead of time, I still can't come up with a scenario where I would think to myself. "Ahh, better take the Death Cultists for this game!"

Ok, but here's another thing against Nork: if his officer is executed by a commissar, Nork kills the commissar, but only after the commissar kills the officer.

Something I'm surprised I haven't seen in here for Eldar: Wraithguard.

#1- 15$ Per model.
#2- Their totally awesome gun...only shoots 12 inches.
#3- S5 T6 yes...but as far as CC, that is they only edge they have. No power weapons, no extra attacks.
#4- 35 points per model for this, plus the extra 25 points that you will need for a warlock to prevent wraith sight.

As far as worst model, it would have to be a tie between Wraithguard and Swooping Hawks in my opinion.

I agree with Axyl. but he forgot that they're not fleet too. plasma cannons rip them up. and they're big, but only one wound on each of them, and they're horrible at finding cover.

Uhm...last I checked, Wraithguard were excellent. 10 of them with a warlock with Conceal or Enhance and in cover and a farseer (that should be in your army anyway) casting fortune on them makes a very tough nut to crack. And they are scoring. Their uber guns make a nice 12" no fly zone around them as well. Couple that with some other smart choices in list design, and the wraithguard form a very durable "anvil".

I think that this thread really only demonstrates that some people don't really understand how "useless" or "good" some units are.

LOTD are hardly "useless" either btw. They compete with Sternguard, who are better, but their deepstrike ability and 3+ invulnerable save can make them interesting if you aren't using Kantor or don't need another drop pod. They aren't the best choice, but are ooodles better than Vanguard.

As long as you build your list around using them, Wraithguard are the BEST troop choice in the Eldar dex. As Whitedragon mentioned, you do have to take your Warlock/Spiriteesr with Conceal, give them a Fortuneseer (preferably Eldrad if the Avvy is there too), and then run Wraithlords behind them...you now have the quintesential Elf-zilla list...and it works well.

Mutants in the latd list.

@ Whitedragon and Alerian:

Some good points in there actually. In fact I may play test the W-Guard in some upcoming games to see how it works out. One major counter-point though. Even if these units where the take-all awesome squad for any list, to run a full squad with a warlock would cost you up to about 160 dollars. Lets say you can even get the full squad at 15% off, after taxes its still pretty close to 140$.

If these guys had a plastic kit, or were a bit more reasonably priced, I would certainly move it from the 'worst' group to the 'worth playing' group.

namegoeshere wrote:Mutants in the latd list.

Surely you meant big mutants. The basic mutant was, for it's time, a very nice choice with the ability to gain a hidden 4 swing powerfist that could reroll one miss per turn. Big Mutants were ogryn.

I find Vespids and Ethereals to be kinda pointless. Ethereals soak up a slot that could could ahve another Shas'O in (the Tau's best unit imo), and the vespids take up a fast attack slot and suck majorly compared to pirhanas or pathfinders.

And then there's the Heros.

Farsight is kinda ok, but you ahve to build a completely different type of army list to work with him (no kroot )

But Aun'Va and Shadowsun just arent very good.

and then theres the whole " no more wargear" thing with all three of them. that alone makes me never want to take any of them. Tau vehicles are lunchmeat without wargear. (disruption pod wtf)

Axyl wrote:@ Whitedragon and Alerian:

Some good points in there actually. In fact I may play test the W-Guard in some upcoming games to see how it works out. One major counter-point though. Even if these units where the take-all awesome squad for any list, to run a full squad with a warlock would cost you up to about 160 dollars. Lets say you can even get the full squad at 15% off, after taxes its still pretty close to 140$.

If these guys had a plastic kit, or were a bit more reasonably priced, I would certainly move it from the 'worst' group to the 'worth playing' group.

Cost doesn't factor in to "usefulness". Bloodcrushers are much more expensive than Wraithguard. Check E-bay or Bartertown, or look for clearance sales at FLGS's.

Correct, of course cost doesn't apply to actual usefulness. Just went by the OP's criteria in naming a 'worst' unit.

"goes against the army" or "most overpriced" or "Models never used" would fill in here.

Anyway, thats my last counter point. I'm done.

For my armies I have those units I never use...EVER.

DA: Scouts. Yea sure their BS is higher than the 5th ed ones, but they take up an elite spot. A spot thats for Termies or dreadnoughts, not the recruits of the chapter. Also my sniper rifles never seem to kill ANYTHING.

Orks: Tankbusters may have a wicked cool weapon with the tank hammer, their rules have made it hard for me to see their value. "ZOMG LOOK A NECRON TANK!" *rush in and dies*

Imp Guard: Back in the day the ogryns used to be a decent anti-assault unit. With the new codex however, their usefulness seems less rewarding.

I'd have to vote for Tyranids Gargoyles and Chaos Deadnaughts. Gargoyles pay the price for wings but their armor gets ignored by bolters. Chaos Dreads because of their unreliability and I hate their stupid melee arm. I want a normal-looking DCCW.

Chaos Spawn I use all the time...



Ahriman turns people into them *tee hee*

avantgarde wrote:Lootas, they suck BS2 with d3 shots whatever.

Flash gitz are much better especially upgrade all the way since they have two wounds, work better with boyz because of they're close range weapons and have a reliable number of shots that can upgraded.

That's like the opposite of what is true.
Flash gitz are decent but WAAAAY overpriced. Lootas are one of the best choices in the army.

For worst Tau unit I'd have to say the Vespid.

Vengis wrote:

Casper wrote:

willydstyle wrote:
Successful Troll is Successful. I really thought that it was funny, avantgarde.

As did I, avantgarde. Shame some people don't enjoy a sence of humor in these threads.

It's a shame some people can't spell.

I wasted my time typing of a thought-out reply. I happen to not like that.

At least I know that anything avantgarde says it worthless.

^^Butt-hurt

My vote must go to to Ethereal. Having a T3 nil armor IC in your army who makes your entire army run away is a bad thing.

Gandair wrote:
Chaos Spawn I use all the time...
Ahriman turns people into them *tee hee*

Of course, the big problem is having enough Spawn models to handle his prodigious Gift of Chaos.

Spawn are certainly top dogs of Chaos' worst, but you should only be using them with Gift.
Swooping Hawks are teri-bad for their points. They have one trick, and can't do anything else (Hay-wire nades used to be nice, they need an update)
Furies are lame
Vanguard are lame
Sister's of Battle Landraider is lame (no assault ramp, overcosted)
Deathcults are lame

Oh, you know what I hate? Sniper weapons. Snipers are elite, one shot one kill weapons, but most units that use them have 4+ hit, they will only wound 4+ (why would they hurt less than bolters against GEQs?) and only rending simulates a headshot. They will put on ~.04 of a wound per shot, and they have 5 shots a game. Huzzah, a 5 man scout team will put out 1 wound if they are firing through the entire game!

Also why the Tank Buster hate? You take them to bust tanks, so you don't need them shooting at other stuff. They won't shoot at the nearest thing (common misconception), they just have to shoot at a tank if they can see it.

For daemons beast of nurgle cost as much as 2 plague bearers and are worse.

As for chaos spawn we have to pay for a chance to make them.

1- SM vanguard
2- tank bustas unless it's new IG armored company will rise again?
3- SM sniper scouts except tellion hes a one man army for 50 pts
4- the only point to inq. for sisters or DH is for the assasins
5- the psycer assassin since thousand suns are only psychers are sargents for doom bolt thingy and eldar for doom on you
6- SM calgar Chapter Master still a over priced uselessness except vulkan from salamanders absolutely awesome

A: Vulkan isn't a Chapter Master.

B: Do you mean all the Space Marine SCs? i'm guessing not.

The only thing wrong with Telion is you have to take a Scout squad with him.

Chronus comes to mind as bad. BS 5 is useless when he's on foot as he has a boltgun, and the small improvements to hit with a tank are sort of meh for 70pts. Ignoring shaken and stunned is nice though.

Milquetoast Thug wrote:
1. Aun-'205-freaking-points'-Va. what a flat out baaad unit, seriously.

No. read your codex over and over again until you like him. Yeah he's slightly overpriced (seriously, only slightly) but you'll thank yourself.

As far as the IG go: SLY "useless catachan that used to be worth his points" MARBO

The Revelator wrote:

avantgarde wrote:Lootas, they suck BS2 with d3 shots whatever.

Flash gitz are much better especially upgrade all the way since they have two wounds, work better with boyz because of they're close range weapons and have a reliable number of shots that can upgraded.

That's like the opposite of what is true.
Flash gitz are decent but WAAAAY overpriced. Lootas are one of the best choices in the army.

For worst Tau unit I'd have to say the Vespid.

...I dont entirely disagree with either statement. wow. I really am having a hard time with the realization that lootas are unreliable crap and gits are a better place for my points. huh. I run both units though, and my orks outshoot my IG.

willydstyle wrote:For Eldar: Guardians. Hooray, we're like guardsmen with less firepower for twice the points!

Actually, Guardians can have heavy weapons, which gives them the extra punch they need. They also have more firepower than guardsmen.
Also, with a Warlock w/ conceal, guardians will be a near unmoveable GUARD to your "close to home" objectives. Guardians are always worth their points for me.