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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 11:45:35
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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I haven't seen any of the Epic models.
I would be surprised and impressed if they were more detailed than GHQ who are regarded as the gold standard for micro-armour.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 16:20:49
Subject: Re:TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Oberleutnant
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Sorry Ghidorah, have to disagree re GW Epic vs GHQ (although I agree with you 100% on the other stuff). Forge World Epic is on par with GHQ but not the normal metal stuff although it is nice.
I'm in the middle of moving so everything packed away otherwise I would do a comparison photo (I have GHQ WWII Amrican and GW Space Marine armies).
Mick
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/03 16:25:05
Digitus Impudicus!
Armies- |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 17:42:56
Subject: Re:TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Foxy Wildborne
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Ghidorah wrote:
Y'know? since we're talking about GW and detail, I just realized something that really backs up your original statement about GW's detail:
Epic 40k.
When it comes to 1:285-1:300 nobody, I mean NOBODY details like GW. Not even close. Heroics & Ross and GHQ were pretty much the be-all end-all of that scale for WWII minis and, honestly, they can't come anywhere NEAR the levels of detail that GW did with the Epic 40,000 (3rd ed.) re-scuplts. So, we can just pretend that that's what you were talking about all along and we'll have no choice but to agree with you.
Fair enough
I've actually been looking around for a new 6mm game recently and kinda got accustomed to the usual level of detail in that scale (Brigade Models, GZG and such)... then I stumbles upon some of the current Epic Falcons and was totally blown away.
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The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 20:17:49
Subject: Re:TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Hacking Shang Jí
Calgary, Great White North
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Lanrak wrote:
Hi again,
Well a good range of replies so far.
And as its sort of drifted off topic a bit, may I intervene?
GW PLC keep saying the ' GW HOBBY'.
It is GW PLC, NOT ME that wants to make the distinction between the ' GW Hobby' and the wider table top minature game hobby.
I am happy to except many simply use Citadel products bought in a GW store for convienience, they may be happy to pay for the conveniece.
GW PLC have a strong IP and some quality hobby related products.
GW used a retail chain in the late 1980s to establish a strong high street precence in the UK.This put them in a strong position to lead the revival in TTMG.
Pre PLC days GW was run by enthusiastic hobbiests, and it showed IMO.
GW sold stuff by inspiring creativity in others.(The GW studio and store staff still try to do this IMO.Which is a very good thing!)
I belive the problem was when GW PLC switched target demographic from 'gamers-hobbiests' to 'easiest to please'.
This is a corperate mind set, dont improve your product ,if you can just swich to less demanding customers!
If you are writing a rule set for experianced gamers , it much harder to please them than new players who have nothing to compare your rules to.
And if the 'rule of cool' becomes enough to sustain your new demographic demand for product, actual rules development and game support can be cut ....
GW PLC infer that ' GW hobby' is the only hobby worth bothering with, and other games are too complicated-/-boreing-/-dont exist!
And after a person has invested so much time and effort into building up a army for 40k/ WH, they often feel they HAVE to wait for the game to improve over time.
As they dont think there are any alternatives available.
As there are rule sets that a FREE to down load, why not give them a try with your mates?(Using the minature you already have?)
Cost = a few pence/cents.Time takes less than an hour to print and learn.
According to JJ.
The GW hobby is all about.
1/ Collecting a huge amount of Citadel minatures.
2/Reading about the background to inspire you collection.
3/ Painting and converting Citadel minatures with GW HOBBY supplies and paint.
4/Forming you minatures in to usable armies with GW codexes & army books.
5/ Playing games using GW rule books.
'' ..the games are just the icing on the cake..''
I understand many are happy with the non game related parts of the hobby.
But as GW PLC,place cash values on models based on 'in game performance',perhaps collector only hobbiests are not getting VFM?
GW PLC appears to treat the social interaction/ gameing part of the hobby ,as a neccisary evil-optional extra!(Not bothered about resolving game play issues, anti- tournament players ?)
Games Workshop is not the best place to get games from, IMO!
As reguard to the GW branding of everything,and here is all you need approach for the newbs.
I belive this stifles creativity as EVERY example shown by GW uses its own branded products, ( for obvious reasons.)
And so the level of creativity available to be shown by GW staff is getting more limited ...
This is why JJ is limited to talking about 'the hobby' in standard bearer, rather than SHOWING the hobby in multiple WD articles.
The TTMG hobby lets you use whatever rules and products you like ,in the way you want to.
The GW hobby lets you use GW Branded products in the way GW propose.
Enticing you customers to become reliant on you brand, then moaning about why the customers dont work things out them selves is hypocritical IMO.
( GW core games are all thats worth playing, How dare you ask for FAQs and clarifications?)
The social interaction and creativity of the TTMG can be used with the GW RANGE OF PRODUCTS.
This doesnt make a seperate hobby IMO.(Just a restricted one!)
Why do I moan about poor gamer support -rules development -buisness practices at GW?
Because the ONLY thing that would make GW change direction, is loss of turn over.
So if enough gamers switched to alternative rules that didnt need new Citadel minatures every few years,maybe GW would put game play as top priority?
Any rule set that lists the many simple resolution methods available using D6s, to solve complex interactions on page 2.
Then totaly ignores them and uses umpteen seperate rules in the rest of the rule book , is indicative of the lazy exploitive attitude!
Also state on page 2 , the obvious 'The Most Important Rule.'(Dont be a '****'.)
Then write a get out clause for poor rules writeing,hiden in with common sense practicality.
(Yes its 40k.)
I belive GW is using the notion of the ' GW hobby' for profiteeering , and the detriment of the actual 'TTMG hobby.'
Yes other companies use rules to sell minatures.BUT use unified game play improvments,NOT extra 'spezhul rulz, woot!' that mess the gameplay up!
But rules companies that DONT have minture ranges to sell, and minature companies that dont have thier own rules to exploit.Tend to offer better VFM!
CLARIFICATION, GW PLC has a low opinion of its customers, (read the 'little red book', )NOT me!
Moderators, Please delete above line if required,(I know its a sensitive issue),many thanks,Lanrak.
TTFN
Lanrak.
Gadzooks. Breathe man, breathe.
GW is a gateway drug. It's easily accessable. Other games have better rules, better models, better support, better fluff... but GW done the best job over 25 years of consolidating everything into one package, and has the marketing to get known outside the hobby industry. Even people who've never rolled a die to make an armour save in their life are often familiar with WH.
I've left several times, and it's always easy to hop back in, because the models are extremely easy to find. Pick Rackham or Infiniti, which are far superior in several areas, and you'll be lucky to find anything at your local FLGS, let alone a full range of models and accessories. I've been in the hobby for almost 30 years, and I'm thrilled that people can go to one place for everything; models, rules, paint... everything. True, they can get better stuff elsewhere, but they'll learn that when they're ready to take the next step.
You really dislike the way they promote their hobby, but honestly, why should it affect you? You can purchase what you need without entering their stores, you don't need to pick up any propaganda in the form of WD or their website or their salespeople. You can frequent the internet, where you may be in direct contact people who actually, gasp, like GW, but you certainly don't need to.
If you really dislike their marketing, ignore it. Take what you like from the game, and let the rest rot. Paint the models you like. Get as creative as you like. Pick up a Tamiya or Revel Sherman and add it to your games. When you get bored with 40k, pick up another game. GW won't mind. They won't call and leave threatening messages. They'll just annoy someone else. People who want to enjoy the hobby will. If they're having fun building DIY they'll move on.
It just seems really odd that you've divided the hobby into GW and Everybody Else. That's a convenient way to pick the best of Everybody Else to make an unbeatable straw man in your mind, but if you take Everybody Else as separate entities as they should be, they are all flawed. Complaining that GW has managed to be successful enough to not just survive but even thrive after 25 years is rather petty. Their success is the reason that other TTMG have a market ready and willing to give them a chance.
If you really want to see a change, it's up to you to convince your friends to pick up a new game. There's plenty of reasons to slag GW, but you'll have more success promoting the benfits of a specific game rather than trying to convince people they're fools for enjoying their current hobby.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/03 20:51:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 20:59:01
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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It depends what you want to see from a wargames company.
I've been wargaming for nearly 35 years, and I've never felt the need for one company to provide me with everything.
A high street shop that could provide me with everything would be nice, but unrealistic when there is so much choice available.
The restriction of GW is that, "It's our way or the highway."
On the plus side that forces the keener newbies to learn about alternatives. The rest of them are probably summer soldiers who would never have progressed anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 21:24:51
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Vermillion wrote:casual drink a beer and drunkenly issue commands expecting the models to do them  .
You, sir, are an absolute genius and have been spending too much time viewing the spy cameras in my garage. However much spying you've done, you failed to notice that I drink quite a bit more than "a" beer before spewing insensate commands at my firewarriors usually something like "why don't you kill something, anything, before you die!?!?!"
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/11/03 21:34:54
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 21:36:22
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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You should get into Napoleonics and play as Kutusov.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 21:52:50
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Kilkrazy wrote:
The restriction of GW is that, "It's our way or the highway."
I think that's a little harsh in terms of description, but not inaccurate in sentiment.
GW are like any other company in this regard. They don't really want you to be seen endorsing a competitors goods on their turf. It can be a little too much depending on your local stores staff, but in my experience, it's less heavy handed from HQ. A good comparisson would be buying a McDonalds, and eating it in a Burger King. You would understand the staff/manager getting narky and asking you to desist.
I mean, if you're in a GW run Tournament, event, store, whatever then it's not an unreasonable statute that you stick to predominantly their gubbins.
Conversions involving other companies models should be okay, as long as it looks mainly GW (so they would refuse a Warjack used as a Dreadnought, but not a Dreadnought incorporating Warjack parts, if that makes sense).
As for not using GW Paints and Glues, I have never heard of someone being booted out of a shop for this. They'd prefer you to use their products, sure, and might ask you to do so in future, but you wouldn't get kicked out or banned unless the Staff member is a complete knob.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 21:57:30
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: GW are like any other company in this regard. They don't really want you to be seen endorsing a competitors goods on their turf. It can be a little too much depending on your local stores staff, but in my experience, it's less heavy handed from HQ. A good comparisson would be buying a McDonalds, and eating it in a Burger King. You would understand the staff/manager getting narky and asking you to desist.
Conversions involving other companies models should be okay, as long as it looks mainly GW (so they would refuse a Warjack used as a Dreadnought, but not a Dreadnought incorporating Warjack parts, if that makes sense).
As for not using GW Paints and Glues, I have never heard of someone being booted out of a shop for this. They'd prefer you to use their products, sure, and might ask you to do so in future, but you wouldn't get kicked out or banned unless the Staff member is a complete knob.
I know this was in another thread but it just popped into my mind as I read your post.
I think that GW has seen the beenfits of licensing their IP with the Dawn of War franchise; it would be a small step to take this further and license out the writing of codex and rule books so that they could focus on their bread and butter, the models. Some book company could write everything and split the proceeds with GW.
Damn, I'm a genius; I should be running GW, not some slob with a gizillion years worth of business epxerience.
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Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 22:05:05
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Might be possible in the future.
Aside from Dawn Of War, a better precedent has been set with the Fantasy Flight Games license, whereby they can produce lots of lovely boardgames, including classics based on GW's IP.
However, the rule writing and model design seem to be fairly well integrated, so how this would affect outsourcing I dunno!
Not a bad idea like, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good idea.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 22:13:07
Subject: Re:TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot
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Mick A wrote:Sorry Ghidorah, have to disagree re GW Epic vs GHQ (although I agree with you 100% on the other stuff). Forge World Epic is on par with GHQ but not the normal metal stuff although it is nice.
Kilkrazy wrote:I haven't seen any of the Epic models.
I would be surprised and impressed if they were more detailed than GHQ who are regarded as the gold standard for micro-armour.
GHQ was certainly the gold standard, to be sure. Not only was the detailing nice, but the accuracy for something soooo small was very good, too. Again, though, GW gets a leg up for the fact that their catalog of minis is based in a non-reality so they can just go hog-wild with crazy, imaginative stuff on their models.
... and they did.
Here's a little comparison. In typical GW style, the scale is a little off between the two; GHQ being actual, W being exaggerated.
The accuracy of GHQ is not in question. It's the level of detail on the models. Like mentioned above, the Epic Falcon is a marvel. I just don't have any open packs of the new casts. Look art all the sandbags, stowage, etc. There's even teeny shells on the back of the Bassy and pintle-mounted Storm Bolters...
Ghidorah
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 22:13:19
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:
The restriction of GW is that, "It's our way or the highway."
I think that's a little harsh in terms of description, but not inaccurate in sentiment.
GW are like any other company in this regard. They don't really want you to be seen endorsing a competitors goods on their turf. It can be a little too much depending on your local stores staff, but in my experience, it's less heavy handed from HQ. A good comparisson would be buying a McDonalds, and eating it in a Burger King. You would understand the staff/manager getting narky and asking you to desist.
I mean, if you're in a GW run Tournament, event, store, whatever then it's not an unreasonable statute that you stick to predominantly their gubbins.
Conversions involving other companies models should be okay, as long as it looks mainly GW (so they would refuse a Warjack used as a Dreadnought, but not a Dreadnought incorporating Warjack parts, if that makes sense).
As for not using GW Paints and Glues, I have never heard of someone being booted out of a shop for this. They'd prefer you to use their products, sure, and might ask you to do so in future, but you wouldn't get kicked out or banned unless the Staff member is a complete knob.
You're quite right. Whether it's necessary or even a sign of strength or weakness is another thing.
You may be too young to remember Games Day in the mid to late 80s. It used to be a multi-denominational event; all kinds of games and publishers were on show.
Nowadays, Salute, Armageddon, Adepticon, Colours and so on are still multi-denominational and seem to be getting bigger every year. Games Day seems to be getting weaker. The US cancelled a lot of theirs.
Veterans know all this. GW are only trying to bamboozle the n00bs. I think it's because churning n00bs is their core target market.
The sad thing is plenty of vets play the GW core games and a number of the specialist games have a following -- WHAB, Warmaster, Trafalgar -- these are often seen at independent shows. I think GW are a bit paranoid about it and don't need to be. Their games can hold their head up in public.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 22:19:17
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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I don't think they are trying to bamboozle people as such.
Hobby Gaming, whichever system you play, tends to be a very social and community based affair. GW being the main entry point, like to look after their interests by not promoting other systems, as sooner or later (especially with the Interwebs) the gamers will come into contact with them, and go from there.
As for the Specialist Games, I think it's a similar deal to the above. They tend to require smaller forces, thus have a lower expected sale level. And like other systems and settings, they are something the community tends to drive and promote. They are very interested in recruitment, and retention.
I hate to sound like a knobend, but the Veteran Community should be able to look after itself, and this seems to be where GW have slipped up (in so far as they laid it all on a bit thick, stifling the naturally creative edge of the overall Hobby). Getting better, but it's a long road.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 22:31:05
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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I only recall seeing GW have a table once at an independent wargames show. They ran speed painting competition with the new plastic skinks (yes, this was just after 5th edition) and gave away various prizes to winners like badges and t-shirts.
Maybe now they don't think there's any point in engaging with the wider hobby. Everyone in the wider hobby has heard of them so there no real need to advertise to these people. And when it's on their turf (shops, tournaments and games days), they keep the competition out and hope that by supplying all the tools and paint they can keep noobs intirely in-house. It wouldn't suprise me if there are quite a number of GW players, especially younger ones, who don't know that there are alternative wargames companies. And that's a bit sad really because it's a rich and diverse hobby.
Games Day has gone *really* expensive in recent years too. I recall thinking I would get around to going once and being put off by the fact the ticket was £6. The model show I was going to that same weekend, not that far from the NEC incidentally, cost £1 to enter.
Last year that same show cost £2.50, though many other shows still cost less. It was £25 for a Games Day ticket last I looked!! Seems like the only advantage to Games Day is the chance to get all those exclusive figures, which you still have to pay top whack for. Big whooopee.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/03 22:32:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/03 23:33:37
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Fixture of Dakka
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let the bamboozling commence. GW is like my crazy family; I love 'em to death but they annoy the living hell out of me.
I'd play other games but nobody around here plays anything else so I'm stuck with 40k to feed my hobby addiction and it's GW that's the pusher.
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Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 01:36:32
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide
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Howard A Treesong wrote:I only recall seeing GW have a table once at an independent wargames show. They ran speed painting competition with the new plastic skinks (yes, this was just after 5th edition) and gave away various prizes to winners like badges and t-shirts.
Maybe now they don't think there's any point in engaging with the wider hobby. Everyone in the wider hobby has heard of them so there no real need to advertise to these people. And when it's on their turf (shops, tournaments and games days), they keep the competition out and hope that by supplying all the tools and paint they can keep noobs intirely in-house. It wouldn't suprise me if there are quite a number of GW players, especially younger ones, who don't know that there are alternative wargames companies. And that's a bit sad really because it's a rich and diverse hobby.
Games Day has gone *really* expensive in recent years too. I recall thinking I would get around to going once and being put off by the fact the ticket was £6. The model show I was going to that same weekend, not that far from the NEC incidentally, cost £1 to enter.
Last year that same show cost £2.50, though many other shows still cost less. It was £25 for a Games Day ticket last I looked!! Seems like the only advantage to Games Day is the chance to get all those exclusive figures, which you still have to pay top whack for. Big whooopee.
GW used to have their own booth at GenCon. One of the draws was that they'd bring the
bitz Battlewagon in and you could get or order Forgeworld stuff with none of the international
shipping costs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 04:17:09
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot
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Yep. another example of GW's negativity. A few years ago, when 4th was coming out, my friend and I hosted a GW sponsored 40k tourney. They provided many prizes, including a pre-release 4th ed. rulebook. We had about 80 players and they (GW) brought enough terrain to cover the majority of the tables. They even gave me a big ol' boxfull of those foam ruins and barricades after the event.
That's a classic example of good GW.
Ghidorah
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 05:09:14
Subject: Re:TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Fresh-Faced New User
부산
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Lanrak wrote:
Enticing you customers to become reliant on you brand, then moaning about why the customers dont work things out them selves is hypocritical IMO.
Absolutely. Superb crystallisation of GW's attitude to customers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 06:13:17
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Ancient Chaos Terminator
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When I started buying miniatures 20 years ago Grenadier and Ral Partha were the most popular manufacturers and GW was just coming up. Well, GW crushed both of those competitors, removing them as any form of serious competition. Ironically, mostly all of GW's current competitors were largely created by GW. Battlefront (Flames of War, GF9), Privateer Press, etc. employ former GW employees and in some cases a huge part of their development team or founding members are composed of former GW employees. The GW employees creating new companies or migrating with their expertise to existing ones has provided most of the serious competition for GW.
Personally, I like GW's models better than anyone else's and the hobby is all about the models for me. Like many other people who bought Grenadier and Ral Partha models years ago I gradually moved all of my model buying to GW and have had little interest in the models of newer competitors that have sprung up in recent years. But, it's a matter of personal taste and everyone is entitled to buy what they like best from the companies they like best.
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"I hate movies where the men wear shorter skirts than the women." -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
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Check out Cinematic Titanic, the new movie riffing project from Joel Hodgson and the original cast of MST3K.
See my latest eBay auctions at this link.
"We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. You have our gratitude!" - Kentucky Fried Movie |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 06:24:32
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Calculating Commissar
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GW singling out TalkBloodBowl for legal threats and intimidation is certainly another fine chapter in the history of the company.
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The supply does not get to make the demands. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 08:02:15
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Hacking Shang Jí
Calgary, Great White North
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Agamemnon2 wrote:GW singling out TalkBloodBowl for legal threats and intimidation is certainly another fine chapter in the history of the company.
Unfortunately for the site owner it's the name that caused issues. TalkBB would be safe, TalkBloodBowl is not.
Sad, yes, but could be resolved for $9.99 and a trip to GoDaddy.com.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 13:09:43
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Agamemnon2 wrote:GW singling out TalkBloodBowl for legal threats and intimidation is certainly another fine chapter in the history of the company.
And it seems another example of people viewing GW as evil for doing something that any other sensible company would do (protecting its IP... which considering IP laws is a very good idea)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 13:34:08
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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They could have done it nicely by sending a non-legal letter asking the owner to change the name to something which doesn't infringe their copyright.
It's not like GW couldn't use as much support for Blood Bowl as they can get, unless of course they are planning to drop the whole line.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 14:04:12
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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but a non-legal letter is exactly that, non-legal, so has no real standing in the realms of them protecting their IP- which is the reason in the end up for sending said letter
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 14:18:47
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Don't I remember reading that you work for GW Bignutter?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 14:27:05
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Bignutter wrote:but a non-legal letter is exactly that, non-legal, so has no real standing in the realms of them protecting their IP- which is the reason in the end up for sending said letter
Not that it matters but you can send a nice letter (registered of course) asking the entity to ameliorate the problem before resorting to legal threats, there is precedent for it and many companies do it to this day; usually a nice, informal letter asking them to stop their activity followed by a legal cease and desist letter later. It's nicer and cheaper because you don't have to pay an overpriced attorney to pay and underpaid paralegal to write a legal letter. Guess which one I was for a goodly while.
It doesn't matter because it's already spilt milk. GW acted with a heavy hand and the end result is at least one less customer (as I'm sure the site owner at the very least will no longer purchase their products).
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Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 14:27:40
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Bignutter wrote:but a non-legal letter is exactly that, non-legal, so has no real standing in the realms of them protecting their IP- which is the reason in the end up for sending said letter
There is a difference between a solicitor's letter threatening to bring suit, and a polite letter saying that GW wish the name to be changed because it infringes on their IP.
The second letter has just as much bearing on protection of the IP as the first, it is much nicer -- hopefully retaining the good will of the web site owner and users (if they care) -- and if it did not have the desired effect a proper solicitor's letter could be sent next.
What GW have achieved with their heavy handed threat is to provoke a crapstorm of argument and haet around the internet.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 14:58:38
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Calculating Commissar
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Bignutter wrote:Agamemnon2 wrote:GW singling out TalkBloodBowl for legal threats and intimidation is certainly another fine chapter in the history of the company.
And it seems another example of people viewing GW as evil for doing something that any other sensible company would do (protecting its IP... which considering IP laws is a very good idea)
This is true to an extent, but why is Warhammer-Empire.com not affected? Or 40kRadio? or Bolter & Chainsword?
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The supply does not get to make the demands. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 16:24:58
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
The drinking halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called
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Agamemnon2 wrote:Bignutter wrote:Agamemnon2 wrote:GW singling out TalkBloodBowl for legal threats and intimidation is certainly another fine chapter in the history of the company.
And it seems another example of people viewing GW as evil for doing something that any other sensible company would do (protecting its IP... which considering IP laws is a very good idea)
This is true to an extent, but why is Warhammer-Empire.com not affected? Or 40kRadio? or Bolter & Chainsword?
Because they are GW founded. Or so some Dakkites would have you believe.
Besides who knows if they are affected or not. Maybe they reached a compramise
Also Gw has the best FLuff out there. show me somebody who has more?
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R.I.P Amy Winehouse
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/11/04 16:36:12
Subject: TTMG hobby just positives, GW hobby just negatives?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Maybe they will be next.
Maybe GW really are trying to close down BloodBowl for good -- I mean the game.
I think GW benefit a lot from the free amateur coverage they get, which if they wanted to generate by spamming adverts onto websites and Google would cost them a lot.
The downside is they get criticism and complaint as well. People complain about stuff they care about, so all complaint isn't bad, only GW don't respond to it.
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