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Kilkrazy wrote:

Maybe GW really are trying to close down BloodBowl for good -- I mean the game.

I can't see that happening- based on the fact that its just specialist games models

I suspect that it's due to the recent computer game being made. Something about that reinvigorating the IP and causing GW legal to leap out and defend against the terrifying threat of hobbyist fansites!!

And yeah, I do remember that you work for GW now Bignutter.

Why does it matter if I do or have worked for GW exactly?

Personal bias.

Ghidorah wrote:[
IJN Akagi:

Why do I have the sudden desire to do a 70 degree dive, hit the release and shout "scratch one flattop!" Ah the memories of youth...

metallifan wrote:Is this the second or third thread that this OP has started? Sorry to the OP if I''m misinterpreting the tone, but it seems like you're one of the guys that was terrible at 40K fantasy, so you quit intead of trying to improve, and picked up some other game system that was so simple even an ape could win, and have now come back to troll the game you were so bad at by asking why other people enjoy it when (in your opinion) you couldn't win so clearly it sucked.

Don't insult apes, theyre quite clever.
I have no experience of TTMG but yeah everyone knows gw is overpriced but I like being able to play in-store.
The staff are (mostly) nice.
Based on my experience 'gw gaming' is not that bad.

Sidstyler wrote:Personal bias.

He could be biased either for or against, or not biased at all.

He could be either as you say. And maybe bribery's bad reputation is unjustified.

There's a whole branch of attachment theory (usually applied to mothers and babies) dealing with employers/employees. One day some psychologist is going to become rich and famous writing about GW.

Frazzled wrote:Why do I have the sudden desire to do a 70 degree dive, hit the release and shout "scratch one flattop!" Ah the memories of youth...

Mmmmmm... Dauntless-y goodness.



Ghidorah

Bignutter wrote:Why does it matter if I do or have worked for GW exactly?

Bacause you have posted in a very pro GW way in many threads and it's worthwhile noting that whilst this is your personal opinion and that's entirely fair and just, GW are paying your wages.

That it's a convenient way of ignoring an opinion generally better informed about certains intents than, oh, I dunno. An Interwebs Whinger?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:That it's a convenient way of ignoring an opinion generally better informed about certains intents than, oh, I dunno. An Interwebs Whinger?

It could, in fact, be both biased and well-informed.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:That it's a convenient way of ignoring an opinion generally better informed about certains intents than, oh, I dunno. An Interwebs Whinger?

Ah, the other minion shows up to play tag.

"GW are burning babies!!!1!" - internet whinger...

"But Jervis is feeling the cold in his old age and besides, have you seen how cool Greatswords are? Perhaps you'd like to buy a great battleboard to use them on and also let that nice Mr Kirby apply his fist to your arse in the vain hope it will shake more money out of your wallet whilst you're paying?" - internet GW apologist...and employee...

Keep fighting the good fight Doc.

No personal attacks!

She's hot. Do you think she plays Warhams?

Killkrazy you find all the best pics. That's going on my desk at work next to Victoria Pendleton (exceptionally gorgeous Olympic gold medal winning cyclist)

Ahem, back on topic...

EDIT - I should point out that Victoria Pendleton does not sit on my desk at work on account of having better things to do like training and stuff. I was of course refering to a picture that I really should be replace with a photo of my wife.

Ah that pic made me all natsukashi, she looks like a lot of my students. You know it's hard to teach at a Japanese high-school without feeling like a dirty old man.

Anywho.
Yeah, down with GW!!!! heh.

I recently started playing 40K, though for a long time I refused to play any TTMG, from my own observations of some of the players. I would see grown men, with massive armies of beautifully painted minis, go berserk and wreck their armies because of bad dice rolls. When I first had interest in 40K, I went to a shop and was patronized by players who felt that as a girl, I wouldn't have serious interest in the game.
There are bad players of all types, not just exclusive to 40K. As far as products go, while a bit pricey, the paints and models are of excellent quality, in my humble opinion. Not all pieces are perfect, that is the downfall of mass production,but it's nothing that some patience and craftiness can't cure. I have friends that play Warmachine, and they experience many of the same problems that GW players experience.
As for the GW stores, the nearest one to me isn't the best. It isn't very big, and some of the staff are elitist jerks. It's quite demoralizing to go to this store with some painted models, only to have the staff rip on your technique, especially when their critique is unsolicited. Of course, I'm sure that this store does not set the standard of all GW store, as I have heard great reviews of other locations. As for the players, my boyfriend and most of our friends play, and I enjoy meeting new players and discussing tactics and painting tips.
I have attended some wargaming conventions and find that a good number of wargamers play 40K/Fantasy in addition to the more historical games. When I asked them why, majority of them cited the fluff. I love the history of the 40K universe, and I think that draws as many newcomers in as any other aspect of the game.
As a military history buff, I do plan on investing in a historical army, but finding other players can be challenging. One of the great points of Warhammer is the ease of finding new players. I recently moved to a town where I know almost no one, and it was comforting to be able to go to a game shop and connect with other games in the area.
All in all, GW has both it's pros and cons, but so does every other game. It all boils down to these factors: time, money and player base. The priority of the factors ultimately help determine what game is best for what player. Really, it's all about having fun, and that's what really matters.

This is just my opinion, take it or leave it.

Yomama, it's a well known fact that women make terrible 40k players; it may be from a lacking in the necessary nerd gene which seems tied somehow to the Y chromosome...

Now now, there's no need for violence, please put down the nice, big, shiney cleaver you're holding... erk.

agnosto wrote:Yomama, it's a well known fact that women make terrible 40k players; it may be from a lacking in the necessary nerd gene which seems tied somehow to the Y chromosome...

Now now, there's no need for violence, please put down the nice, big, shiney cleaver you're holding... erk.

Good work agnosto, I hope that was ironic sexism.

EDIT - And for what it's worth yomamamancer, a very considered post.

Flashman wrote:

agnosto wrote:Yomama, it's a well known fact that women make terrible 40k players; it may be from a lacking in the necessary nerd gene which seems tied somehow to the Y chromosome...

Now now, there's no need for violence, please put down the nice, big, shiney cleaver you're holding... erk.

Good work agnosto, I hope that was ironic sexism.

Yeah, missed the irony button on the keyboard while I was typing that.
No offense intended.

Cool

We probably do need a "I'm being ironic" Orkmoticon

No offense taken, I know that female gamers are a rare breed... And by the way, I prefer axes to cleavers.

agnosto wrote:Yomama, it's a well known fact that women make terrible 40k players; it may be from a lacking in the necessary nerd gene which seems tied somehow to the Y chromosome...

Wait thats not accurate?

HI all.
Perhaps I am bieng mis-understood?

The Table top minatures game hobby ;-
Allows you to collect -paint-convert ANY minatures you want to , from ANY company.
You can use ANY hobby tools and hobby meduim from whatever source you prefer.
It allows you to use ANY rule sets YOU and YOUR gaming buddies like the best, from ANY company.
Alows you to play at whatever level of detail simulation or competitivness that suits YOU!.

The GW hobby, involves buying minatures from GW.
Using GWs hobby tools and materials, to paint- convert the GW minatures within defined guidelines.
Using GW rules and codexes-army books that set the level of detail and competitivness.
(And as GW doesnt think game play is that important GW wants YOU to sort out rules issues amonst yourselves!)

The creativity and social interaction is THE TTMG hobby.
The restrictions and extra expence appear to be the 'GW HOBBY'.

GW is 'convienient' but prices its products to cover this convinence.(At least double the RRP of products available elsewhere.)
The TTMG hobby INCOURAGES independant thought and creativity.IMO.
The 'GW hobby' just incourages purchasing a partucular brand . IMO.

I hope this makes my point a bit clearer.

Yomamancer.
If you are interested in Historical gaming , see if you can find a mature gaming group to introduce you to the hobby.Or if you are interested in a particualr period, perhaps I could help by suggesting some rule sets?

Happy Gaming
Lanrak.

HI all.
Perhaps I am bieng mis-understood?

Possibly. Let me respond to your points and try and explain my issues with your complaints.

The Table top minatures game hobby ;-
Allows you to collect -paint-convert ANY minatures you want to , from ANY company.
You can use ANY hobby tools and hobby meduim from whatever source you prefer.
It allows you to use ANY rule sets YOU and YOUR gaming buddies like the best, from ANY company.
Alows you to play at whatever level of detail simulation or competitivness that suits YOU!.

You've consolidated every other company out there into a single entity to compare GW to. "It allows you to use any other..." Really? Who's "IT"? If I show up at a Hordes tournament and put my Confrontation minis on the table and tell them I'm using Heroclix rules, does this mean my opponent isn't allowed to beat me to death with a red whippy stick? 'cause even if "IT" supports this, I'm thinking my opponent might be a bit put off.

The GW hobby, involves buying minatures from GW.
Using GWs hobby tools and materials, to paint- convert the GW minatures within defined guidelines.
Using GW rules and codexes-army books that set the level of detail and competitivness.
(And as GW doesnt think game play is that important GW wants YOU to sort out rules issues amonst yourselves!)

GW has never asked me to remove the Vallejo paints from my minis. I even won a pretty big painting competition once, and they didn't even ask about the paints I used. Ignorant fools...

I've also played several 40k games with unoffical minis. In one, I used a cell-phone as a Rhino. I expected GW Special Forces to burst though my window at any second to confiscate my gear, but to this day I've never even received a formal admonishment. Wierd, no?

And I think you'll find players set the level of competitiveness of games, not rules. You've got rules-nazis and paint-fascists on this very board.

You are correct that GW is very stringent when it comes to tournaments, but I'm willing to forego my cel-phone rhino for WYSIWYG to make everyone's life a bit easier.

The creativity and social interaction is THE TTMG hobby.
The restrictions and extra expence appear to be the 'GW HOBBY'.

Really? I've seen Flintstone-themed marines in WH40k, but I'm sure a "Hello-Kitty" themed Wehrmacht army would be frowned upon in Flames of War.

And I've met a hell of a lot more people through GW games than Confrontation. ("...Confrontation? What the hell's that?)

GW is 'convienient' but prices its products to cover this convinence.(At least double the RRP of products available elsewhere.)
The TTMG hobby INCOURAGES independant thought and creativity.IMO.
The 'GW hobby' just incourages purchasing a partucular brand . IMO.

Why is convenience a bad thing? Anything that gets new blood involved in the hobby gets a big thumbs-up in my book. Personally I get my art supplies at an art store, but that's not always possible for new-comers who don't even have a driver's licence.

Plus I think you'll find a lot of that "encouragement" from smaller companies is to fill voids in their own product lineup, rather than an altruistic recommendation to buy their competitor's products.

I hope this makes my point a bit clearer.
...
Happy Gaming
Lanrak.

I can see you're very dissatisfied with GW, which is your right. But I think your argument that GW is diametrically opposed to every other TTMG out there is a bit of a stretch.

Hi Mastiff.
Nope you still are missing the point.
The hobby is the Table top minature gameing hobby.

GWPLC insist on calling it the 'GW hobby' to promote insular marketing for thier own products.

This is what I object to.

All the positive creativity and interaction is the TTMG hobby.

GW just restrict the focus to GW product and pretend its all there is!
And many new customers belive this.
And you do pay more for convineince at GW stores .(Most convenience stores put on 25 to 50 % mark up, not 200% to 1800%!)

My beef is with the fat and lazy corperate managment at GW towers.
Can not compete in an open market, then create an artificialy closed one!(The GW hobby.)
Customers demanding better games, find less demanding customers!(Focus on new customers only.)

No other company producing product for the TTMG pretend to be the entire hobby.
And if the 3 core GW games dont suit you , you may leave GW thinking the TTMG hobby is not for you, and miss out on ALL the other options!

Is this clearer?

TTFN
Lanrak.

Lanrak wrote:Hi Mastiff.
Nope you still are missing the point.
The hobby is the Table top minature gameing hobby.

GWPLC insist on calling it the 'GW hobby' to promote insular marketing for thier own products.

This is what I object to.

All the positive creativity and interaction is the TTMG hobby.

GW just restrict the focus to GW product and pretend its all there is!
And many new customers belive this.
And you do pay more for convineince at GW stores .(Most convenience stores put on 25 to 50 % mark up, not 200% to 1800%!)

My beef is with the fat and lazy corperate managment at GW towers.
Can not compete in an open market, then create an artificialy closed one!(The GW hobby.)
Customers demanding better games, find less demanding customers!(Focus on new customers only.)

No other company producing product for the TTMG pretend to be the entire hobby.
And if the 3 core GW games dont suit you , you may leave GW thinking the TTMG hobby is not for you, and miss out on ALL the other options!

Is this clearer?

TTFN
Lanrak.

So you have beef with the idea that GW are setting themselves up to basically be a one-stop shop for everything you need to get the models, modeling supplies, terrain and rules to play their games? That is the goal at the end of the day- to allow people to walk into a GW store and get EVERYTHING they need (Even down to waterpots and gamingtables) Surely it would be stupid to push and promote alternatives when they stock a given item. Can anyone actually give a reason why any company would turn round and say "Yeah you don't need to buy our glue, you can get it next door for a pound less"

Also claiming the focus is completely on new customers seems strange because surely its the established customer base that drive the demand for new models, armies, rules, expansions, terrain etc...

Bignutter wrote:
Also claiming the focus is completely on new customers seems strange because surely its the established customer base that drive the demand for new models, armies, rules, expansions, terrain etc...

Actually, as someone that spends 2-3 days a week working on models in a local GW store, I get to watch alot of the "staff training" and in fact the manager regularly tells his red shirts that the goal is "recruitment recruitment recruitment" and "for every 3 starter sets we sell, we should be selling at least 2 Academy classes".

While us smart people know that it's the established niche fanbase that drives the game. GW doesn't really care about us because for the most part, we'll still spend the money. So it's "recruitment recruitment recruitment".

Howlingmoon wrote:

Bignutter wrote:
Also claiming the focus is completely on new customers seems strange because surely its the established customer base that drive the demand for new models, armies, rules, expansions, terrain etc...

Actually, as someone that spends 2-3 days a week working on models in a local GW store, I get to watch alot of the "staff training" and in fact the manager regularly tells his red shirts that the goal is "recruitment recruitment recruitment" and "for every 3 starter sets we sell, we should be selling at least 2 Academy classes".

While us smart people know that it's the established niche fanbase that drives the game. GW doesn't really care about us because for the most part, we'll still spend the money. So it's "recruitment recruitment recruitment".

And that may well be what the focus is for the retail staff- and the stores in general, that doesn't mean the vets are ignored- heck who do you think the staff chat to, help out with projects and generally interact with when they aren't recruiting new players?

It does make good sense that they should concentrate their efforts on talking to those new people and showing them what its all about- but that doesn't mean that they should or do flat out ignore and not bother with the vets.


My point does also still stand though- because the realms of what goes on in stores is very different from the wider world- as can be seen by the vast majority of people who don't game at their local store, or indeed do not have a local GW