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primeministersinister wrote:That would be like having a giant cod piece on the male marines.

Check out the marine scouts... now that's some well hung studs. *licks lips*

primeministersinister wrote:That would be like having a giant cod piece on the male marines.

actually, they all wear huge cups/cod pieces as it stands... its not as if they have chick thighs (pick up a space marine and look how thin the leg gets between the boot and "waist piece" and you'll see how much extra "room" they have. Actually, a fun thing to do is take the Chaos Chest piece with the Upward arrow on the belt buckle, clip it off, and re-glue it upsidedown, then with tiny paint add your profanity!

Cyporiean wrote:

Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:

Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :
Basis for the body :

How the hell can she stand up straight with those things?

It's power armor. It can do anything.

As I said, it's a 15 min. job and just a koncept. I'll sculpt the head and the rest tomorrow.
Besides bigger is better, right?

Generally no, bigger is more painful.

In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium back pain.

Aramoro

im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm
i'll post some pics as soon as im ready.
And stop discussing if femmarines exist or not, if you want to discuss that start a new thread.

thompie12 wrote:im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm
i'll post some pics as soon as im ready.
And stop discussing if femmarines exist or not, if you want to discuss that start a new thread.

Word.

I'm looking forward to seeing your finished product. Have you given any thought to their chaos allegiance? Slaanesh just seems too beardy, I really like the idea of female khorne followers.

thompie12 wrote:im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm

btw, to make life easier, don't use the GW Bonesaw thing to cut metal (or anyother oversized blade). I will probably make things harder then easier. If you do plan on removing arms for tentacles, or removing Imperium-esque portions of the models (which I reccomend), you will need a steady hand and a good dremel. Good dremal workmanship can be extremely useful for metal conversions.

Also, if you want to cheat...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Freebooter-CHA001-Chaos-Sorceress-Female-Wizard-New_W0QQitemZ350311082789QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item51902aeb25

Most of the Freebooter stuff works great for Female Chaos. Just throw some power-armor and bolters here and there, and pluck them out and put them on Circular bases and you've got yourself some Wimminz who follow Chaos!

I am going to paint them in black legion colors.

Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :

Basis for the body :

Is this pic supposed to support the "for" or the "against" camp?

Please no...

Bottom line is we have five pages and nothing fromthe OP as far as actual modelling.

The proof is going to be in the pudding as they say, so its time to put up or shut up on this.

Post some pics when you have actually built something.

Talk is cheap...

Cyporiean wrote:

Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:

Ugluk Mo'Dakka wrote:Well i banged tis one out in a hurry , hope it helps :
Basis for the body :

How the hell can she stand up straight with those things?

It's power armor. It can do anything.

As I said, it's a 15 min. job and just a koncept. I'll sculpt the head and the rest tomorrow.
Besides bigger is better, right?

Generally no, bigger is more painful.

Power armor. Now with handwavium sports bra. (Seriously, guys, the 'breast plate' is over done.)

Female marines is one thing. the oversized greenstuff boobs are another. It'd be better to adjust the angles of the armor to indicate the occupant has a different body shape. Less risk of being shot in the tits, too.

Q. What's the point of being a female marine, when males are significantly stronger, etc?
A. Seduction.

Q. What's the most seducing aspect they can be given?
A. Boobs.

Thus the impractical chest plate is there for a reason.

Even tho the OP stated he didnt want anymore about Female SM/CSM justification this kinda goes with modeling so I will point this out as well...

SM/CSM were modified to be as battle potent as possible (aka multi-hearts lungs etc)

You would think that IF anyone wanted to make a Female Marine, they would straight up remove the Breasts entirely... and all things considered, unless Marines are Unics, a Female would be more sutible for combat as, to be brutally honest, a penis (and its respective testes) actually is more of a hinderance for combat then a vagina would be. If muscles were augmented properly (which one would assume the would be) women of the imperium may be a more effective weapon then men. However, all things considered, it would make more sense to have Marines be Genderless, as this would eliminate hormonal factors entirely, and would create a dar better supersoldier.

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Even tho the OP stated he didnt want anymore about Female SM/CSM justification this kinda goes with modeling so I will point this out as well...

SM/CSM were modified to be as battle potent as possible (aka multi-hearts lungs etc)

You would think that IF anyone wanted to make a Female Marine, they would straight up remove the Breasts entirely... and all things considered, unless Marines are Unics, a Female would be more sutible for combat as, to be brutally honest, a penis (and its respective testes) actually is more of a hinderance for combat then a vagina would be. If muscles were augmented properly (which one would assume the would be) women of the imperium may be a more effective weapon then men. However, all things considered, it would make more sense to have Marines be Genderless, as this would eliminate hormonal factors entirely, and would create a dar better supersoldier.

Eh, the problem is that testosterone tends to make people more aggressive (and yes, woman have it too, just as men have trace amounts of estrogen. It's the proportion that varies) less aggressive Space Marines would be a bad thing, imho. Particularly for khorne.


BTW: Pika: please walk down to your local gym and loudly declare that near where hte female body builders are working out. I think you may be surprised.


"I'll show YOU weak!" - Caitlin Fairchild to Pitt, Original Gen 13 mini series, moments before kicking him in the balls.

thompie12 wrote:im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm
i'll post some pics as soon as im ready.
And stop discussing if femmarines exist or not, if you want to discuss that start a new thread.

thompie12 wrote:I was just wondering what you guys think of female Chaos Marines.

Maybe you should start the new thread. You can rember to title it "Everybody Tell Me You Like My Army", if that's all you wanted from this one.

BaronIveagh wrote:Female marines is one thing. the oversized greenstuff boobs are another.

That's exactly the problem; they never are.

It'd be better to adjust the angles of the armor to indicate the occupant has a different body shape.

Why would a woman retain a noticeably different body shape after gaining a foot and a half of height and 400 pounds of muscle and bone?

I mean, if you wanted them to look more realistic, you would probably need to fix the space marine models up a little in either case. After that point though, I don't think there would be any difference you could notice at that kind of scale.

Yes, yes. I'm well aware that females are able to be strong, but it's a fact that males are physically stronger. Check the top players of every sport. All male, and there is a separate female competition because women have weaker bodies in general.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

thompie12 wrote:im still busy building my sob+normal csm=female Csm
i'll post some pics as soon as im ready.
And stop discussing if femmarines exist or not, if you want to discuss that start a new thread.

thompie12 wrote:I was just wondering what you guys think of female Chaos Marines.

Maybe you should start the new thread. You can rember to title it "Everybody Tell Me You Like My Army", if that's all you wanted from this one.

i wanted to know what you think of it (all this is an neverending yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. discussion)
And i want to know HOW to do it not if i should do it. I am past the part of thinking if i should do it.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

It'd be better to adjust the angles of the armor to indicate the occupant has a different body shape.

Why would a woman retain a noticeably different body shape after gaining a foot and a half of height and 400 pounds of muscle and bone?
I mean, if you wanted them to look more realistic, you would probably need to fix the space marine models up a little in either case. After that point though, I don't think there would be any difference you could notice at that kind of scale.

Because the underlying bone structure is still different. If you make a woman ten feet tall, she's still not going to be a man. Load baring structures are different. Over all growth patterns are different. Probably still have a tendency toward lean muscle mass rather then bulk. You can make one as large and strong as a man, but she's still not going to look like one.

@Thomie - It's an interesting idea and I'd like to see it when it comes out.

As far a modeling goes, I think you should try and streamline the armour and try to hint at curves around the hips. Maybe make the groin area into more of a v shape like on female action figures.

i finished 1.
(I know it isn't very sharp but my digital camera is pretty old i hope it is still good though)

First off, good for you! Who cares what anyone thinks? If you have a cool idea, DO IT!

Second, please please find someone with a better camera! Your art deserves to be seen! Your pics are well done, but as you said, your camera is modest. White background, good idea. If a friend has a better camera for close-ups, get him to take some shots and post these, too!

Excelsior!
Solorg

I took my parents' camera and took a picture
and this one is sharper.

thompie12 wrote: i finished 1.
(I know it isn't very sharp but my digital camera is pretty old i hope it is still good though)

I like this.



Iwould suggets doing some headswaps on some of them to have horned helmeted heads ( or add plastic horns to to the SOB that already have helmets), or use some plastic caemonette heads onsome.

Also little things to chasify them would be to carefully cut the clip off soe of the bolters and replace with ammo belts hanging down like some of the actual CSM have...

I'm just going to cut off the helmets of the helmeted sob's and put csm heads on them.
Because they do not look like space marine helmets.


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I will post pictures of the entire completed squad when i have finished them.

primeministersinister wrote:I think the main thing to get is the head. Boobs on the model make no sense in my head. That would be like having a giant cod piece on the male marines.
I says go for it.

Hmmm... You may be right. I think that the chest plate should be modeled a little broader, maybe, but not with boobies. Sorry I keep changing my mind.

Read 'Dead Sky Black Sun' by Graham McNeill that gives you a good insight into the making of CSM, well Iron Warriors anyway. I do not doubt that the CSM who follow Slanesh could become very feminine.. But not actually becoming female...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But tbh the stuff you've done is quite good though more like traitor sisters of battle rather than CSM... an idea which I quite like... and seem plausible... keep it up... I thought you were going to try and mutilate some SM and give them breasts :S but no, you did this and I like!

BaronIveagh wrote:Because the underlying bone structure is still different. If you make a woman ten feet tall, she's still not going to be a man. Load baring structures are different. Over all growth patterns are different. Probably still have a tendency toward lean muscle mass rather then bulk. You can make one as large and strong as a man, but she's still not going to look like one.

If any of you were wondering why I hate female space marines, this is it.

If someone ever made a thread in which someone's female space marines were space marines, I really wouldn't mind them. But they never are. Because no one wants female space marines, they want conventionally built (but just as strong as a 500 lb man you guise srsly!), sexually attractive, feminine supersoldiers. They want enlarged hips and greenstuffed breasts, they want them to stand in a "feminine" pose, they want them to universally worship Slaanesh, they want a female Primarch who has been secretely banished for being a woman, and it's never really about simply having females inducted into space marine ranks.

As Pika said, women are not as strong as men. Female powerlifters are significantly weaker than their male counterparts. Female sports leagues are kept seperate from male leagues primarily because of their weaker physiology. There are women who are much stronger than the average male but no one average is being considered here.

Now why, may you ask, are women weaker? They don't have the muscle mass necessary to equal men. And you don't even have to look between the sexes for this, you can simply look at weight classes within many sporting contests. More muscle - more weight - is what makes you strong. It is possible to gain a lot of muscle without gaining as much functional strength as you could have, but aesthetic bodybuilding isn't coming into play with supersoldiers any more than it would with high-level sporting events.

Now this doesn't have to be a problem for a female space marine initiate; half the point of the space marines is that they have extreme muscle growth, in addition to extreme skeletal growth, the presense of a dozen extra organs, and so forth. This is what allows them to be as strong as they are; they aren't bulky because they have balloons in their arms to make them look scary, they're bulky because their bulk is what gives them their strength, and without the bulk they would be significantly weaker. If they could have been made with greater functional strength per square inch of muscle they would have been.

For a female to remain sexually dimorphic when made into a space marine would render her with at most half the upper body strength, a third less lower body strength, less height, less running ability, less lung capacity; she would never make the grade as a space marine. As any other soldier in the Imperium, sure, but not a soldier that there is one of for every planet the Imperium holds, a soldier that has so much emphasis placed on strength and speed during their creation that extensive surgery and engineering is used to enhance them beyond human levels, and a soldier who is - by default - not female in the first place.

So to sumrise, yes, a woman made to be as strong as a male space marine would look very much like a male space marine, facial features largely excepted. There is no other way that she could procure the strength needed to match them. She is not a "woman who is 10 feet tall", she is space marine, with space marine skeletal structure, space marine muscle mass, and space marine implants. But no one really wants female space marines, do they?

(Pic related: It's what a female olympic weightlifter looks like.)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, concerning the model, I think it looks pretty good. I agree with Orar on it looking more like a renegade sister than a female marine, but I'm sure you're all tired of hearing how I think this would be an improvement in concept.

The detailing on the shoulderpads fit is very nicely with the ornate look of the sister models, and the backpack adds a subtle but noticable feature of the chaos marines that helps to reaffirm their status as traitors. The Black Legion color scheme suits them too.

Jang Mi-Ran, I'm guessing. Interesting choice. I'll see your olympic weight lifter and raise you a four times strongest woman on earth and holder of the Guinness world record for both genders for rolling up frying pans with her bare hands.

Aneta Florczyk



Image selected for comparison with guys who look like space marines, and can lift similar amounts.

Aneta Florczyk

Snatch: 95 kg
Clean and Jerk: 120 kg
Total: 215 kg

Jang Mi-Ran

Snatch: 140 kg
Clean and Jerk: 186 kg
Total: 326 kg

Hossein Rezazadeh (male winner from heavist bracket, 2008 summer olympics)

Snatch: 212 kg
Clean and Jerk: 263 kg
Total: 475 kg

Orkeosaurus wrote:just about the only arguement that's made sense on this thread so far.

QFT.

Aneta Florczyk

Squat 207.5 kg.
Benchpress: 100 kg.
Deadlift: 213 kg
Total: 507. 5 kg. (slightly more then 1k pounds)



World's Strongest Man Winner in 2009: Žydrūnas Savickas

* Squat 425.5 kg
* Bench press 285.5 kg
* Deadlift 407.5 kg
* Total 1090 kg (Slightly more then one ton imperial)



Oh, yeah, he looks like space marine material...

Out of the entire crowd of the strongest, Ryan Kennelly (bench pressed over 1k pounds) is the only one built like a space marine. Most power lifters tend to have a sumo like build.


So, granted, she's half as strong. And weighs less then half as much.