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Likewise apologists are out in force lol, or is that StormBolter miscast something to pop champagne over and celebrate either???

Imo, no one should be jumping the gun and declaring FineCast to be forever more a fail. But by the same token, no one should be pretending quality control failures in the opening batch are anything to be encouraged about either.

Don't sugar-coat the turd.

BUT

Don't declare the Rapture because some 90 year old dude from New Mexico said so either.

Let's wait and see without anyone making sweeping final comments just yet... does that sound reasonable or am I nuts???

Fetterkey wrote:I think a lot of anti-GW trolls on Dakka have tipped their hand a little too early on this one. People are getting mad at GW over a review that concludes that their new product is "absolutely" better than the old one? Sorry if I'm not ready to break out the torches and pitchforks just yet!

Can you get me a link to the "review that concludes that their new product is "absolutely" better than the old one"? I haven't seen one yet.

You'd be sane anywhere else. This is the internet. tsk tsk

I'll get these for particularly annoying metals such as the techmarine, Oblits, lictors, etc. Don't really see much of a point for the one man figs.

infinite_array wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I think a lot of anti-GW trolls on Dakka have tipped their hand a little too early on this one. People are getting mad at GW over a review that concludes that their new product is "absolutely" better than the old one? Sorry if I'm not ready to break out the torches and pitchforks just yet!

Can you get me a link to the "review that concludes that their new product is "absolutely" better than the old one"? I haven't seen one yet.

Oh yeah? It's literally the thread you're posting in right now.

legion4500 wrote:Do i think a price jump is needed? NOPE. Do I like the finecast more then metal. Absolutely!!!

Overall I'm a fan of finecast. I can't wait to open up a box of wracks or mandrakes, find one horribly miscast, and get a free box.

It's like a stealth price drop!

ph34r wrote:Overall I'm a fan of finecast. I can't wait to open up a box of wracks or mandrakes, find one horribly miscast, and get a free box.

It's like a stealth price drop!

...

Can we give this man a medal?


please don't attach non war gaming images directly to Dakka. Thanks

reds8n

ph34r wrote:Overall I'm a fan of finecast. I can't wait to open up a box of wracks or mandrakes, find one horribly miscast, and get a free box.

It's like a stealth price drop!

Lol, if this is the case and they treat it with equal ease and generosity as FW, that would indeed be awesome!

Part of the problem, if not the whole problem, may be the way the releases are being handled.

I am not sure, so please correct me if this is not the case, but it appears that the old metal casting moulds have been reworked.
If so, they will not produce models as crisp and detailed as GW have claimed.
New toolings for models specifically made for this technique of casting may well prove world beaters.
But that does not seem to be what we are getting.

So when you say that world beating casts will be sold at a greater cost while selling the new old stuff people will start getting concerned.

GW couldn't plan a route down a one way street.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Can we give this man a medal?

only if it's Finecast!

infinite_array wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I think a lot of anti-GW trolls on Dakka have tipped their hand a little too early on this one. People are getting mad at GW over a review that concludes that their new product is "absolutely" better than the old one? Sorry if I'm not ready to break out the torches and pitchforks just yet!

Can you get me a link to the "review that concludes that their new product is "absolutely" better than the old one"? I haven't seen one yet.

I don't mean to be rude but...

legion4500 wrote:Do I like the finecast more then metal. Absolutely!!!

mazik765 wrote:

infinite_array wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I think a lot of anti-GW trolls on Dakka have tipped their hand a little too early on this one. People are getting mad at GW over a review that concludes that their new product is "absolutely" better than the old one? Sorry if I'm not ready to break out the torches and pitchforks just yet!

Can you get me a link to the "review that concludes that their new product is "absolutely" better than the old one"? I haven't seen one yet.

I don't mean to be rude but...

legion4500 wrote:Do I like the finecast more then metal. Absolutely!!!

How is that rude? I asked for a citation, and I received it. Twice, in fact!

Therefore, I would like to apologize. I was, in fact, clearly in the wrong.

Nice bit about the hair dryer. I probably would have cut it in half at the bend, inserted a needle or pin, and hoped that fixed it.

Might wait to get a commissar until they work out the kinks.

Edit: if i get a free one for miss cast model i will purposely BUY the miscast one and deal with it.

Deal with it.

So far the Finecast reviews seem to support my decision to leave GW behind.

Then again people tend to be more vocal about negative things than positive ones. It´s entirely possible that there are countless ok Finecasts products out there but people feel no need to post a review of that

Will wait until I see some for myself. But I still won't be surprised if there are some hiccups in the intial release. I do think that (at least for Grotesques and Haemonculi) Them being resin will allow me to to a little more modification to make them not look so identical.

If a hair dryer can do that, that quickly, then hot summers in the car could potentially destroy a painted mini?

Minis on display in shop windows could become soft and malleable or simply warp over time.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:If a hair dryer can do that, that quickly, then hot summers in the car could potentially destroy a painted mini?

That would suck considering in SoCal it's quite easy for temperature to get in the high 90s+ in a closed car rather quickly.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Minis on display in shop windows could become soft and malleable or simply warp over time.

This I think is a bit much though. I don't think they would get quite that hot inside a display case.

Well, Im always happy if its plastic

Because I dont even know how to glue metal (fail)

thenoobbomb wrote:Well, Im always happy if its plastic

Because I dont even know how to glue metal (fail)

What? How?

It´s not really plastic though, so depending on WHY you can´t glue metal you might not be able to glue this as well.
While it´s lighter and thus does not need to be pinned plastic glue doesn´t work on it either.

This is very interesting. I guess we can not judge the finecast until we all see it and deal with the material ourselves.

The casting seems a little strange to me. Fingers crossed they tighten their quality control...

Few things I like the sound of.

1) Paint sticks after a wash.
2) Easily cut through like butter.
3) No need to pin.

This all sounds like an advance from metal, if they get the quality correct I will purchase a model or two to paint.

The Decapitator wrote:Yup, to most they are toy soldiers. Yet when you see the amount of websites such as this which have a dedicated following of people searching for rumours of new releases of said 'Toy Soldiers', you'd be forgiven for mistaking the information was indeed state secrets.

From GW's point of view, they have invested time and money into this project and they want to release it to the world all at once, and provide all the relevant information correctly and in a controlled manner. What they don't want is people posting pictures of a couple of random models of unknown origins which may or may not be representative of the whole Finecast range, and then everyone getting upset and condemning it before they've even given it a chance.

As for the WD issue, I may have been flippant. But I think they may well have been worried that staff member A takes it home, and his friend *borrows* it and then next thing it's up on the net. I believe they are just trying to protect their investment from all sides for the reasons stated above.

And if you hadn't already guessed, I think they do have every right to, at least attempt to anyway.

The company for which I work has projects in development years in advance of when they launch. As they get closer and closer to launch, they get more exciting and interesting to users.

The temptation for staff or agencies to leak info is huge. Yet leaks are very rare, despite the fact that heaps of vital info is provided twice a year at big conferences, and by the nature of the industry (video games) there is ample visual as well as written material to leak.

How is this achieved?

Largely because we release useful info as much as a year or two in advance of the game release. We feed the desire for info by providing materials at a graduated rate which not only discourages leaking, it feeds customers' interest and desire for the final product.

This is the exact opposite of the GW approach. They've only got worse recently, moving from vague rumours to a three month lead time of vague rumours to a week's notice.

In the case of Finecast this has worked against them. Instead of the first public view of the new models being a well organised, impressive display, it's a few nameless users who have got hold of early copies, and putting them on the internet without any spin control. They all look pretty terrible, and give no confidence in GW's capability to make this work.

Fetterkey wrote:I think a lot of anti-GW trolls on Dakka have tipped their hand a little too early on this one. People are getting mad at GW over a review that concludes that their new product is "absolutely" better than the old one? Sorry if I'm not ready to break out the torches and pitchforks just yet!

I have to agree. I think that some people are just too eager to write them off.

And yet the funny thing is, they still buy their products! Seriously, pretty much everyone I have ever met who was in the hobby at some point has been mad at GW.
But if you think about it, GW have geniuses working for them. I love their games! The rules systems (Of the games I play) are incredibly well flowing, and the miniatures and concepts they think up are awesome!
Please just give them a chance. The finecast miniatures may become better yet.

Oh, and just in case you were wondering infinite_array, I am a "player".

SpitfireArsonist wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:If a hair dryer can do that, that quickly, then hot summers in the car could potentially destroy a painted mini?

That would suck considering in SoCal it's quite easy for temperature to get in the high 90s+ in a closed car rather quickly.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Minis on display in shop windows could become soft and malleable or simply warp over time.

This I think is a bit much though. I don't think they would get quite that hot inside a display case.

What about here in bloody Phoenix Arizona, cars can hit 140 in the summer. You would have you commander turn into a puddle if your not careful

Just wanted to say that I have a Finecast model in my hands with absolutely no miscast.
Lots of sprue to clean. Yes.
Too expensive. Sure.
But not a miscast. And I also prefer finecast to metal (BTW Finecost sounds like the German word for "Delikatessen" which actually is another German word for it)

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:... it might just be one poor example.
The OP has it before scheduled release if I understand correctly.
Early production teething troubles, who knows
It is better to hang fire and see if this is the norm, before writing off the whole show.

Anyone cares to call me a fanboy please check my previous posts.

Then again, if GW didn't play Tinker, Tailor, Toy Soldier, Spy, then we wouldn't be getting unofficial reviews that can be damaging.

Completely agree with this post. I can't imagine they would release such a low standard of product and hail it as the next big thing, it would destroy the company.

I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt for now.

Good grief. Putting aside the miscast issue, the softness and behaviour of this new material in heat is a massive no-no for me.

Can you imagine what would happen if you leave a Failcost mini in a hot car? Glass cabinet? Even a window sill? That nice and straight sword will warp and bend and be very difficult to bend back without damaging the paintwork. Also, what happens when (if?) Special Games minis are redone Failcost. Can you imagine what would happen to a stand of Epic troops? They won't be able to take a normal gaming session with out breaking or warping!

Ignoring all the usual posturing that this issue has attracted (there are people who seem to circle around waiting for another chance to go off the deep end), I must say that this if this is typical of what Finecast will be like then it's a very poor start. Unlike, say, HBMC, I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt - I think their recent plastic kits have earned them that. But even accepting this isn't a typical example, the miscast storm bolter is appalling - I've had one FW Grot that badly miscast, and maybe 1 or two Citadel metal minis over many years (including a model that was barely more than a blob on legs). A few small bubbles and mould lines are okay, but there's simply no excuse for that kind of poor quality. Particularly given the way they've trumpeted the advantages of this material over metal. I'm still reading this change to resin as something they've had to do due to the cost the raw materials for metal, although perhaps they genuinely thought they could get the jump on the competition (I'm guessing we'll see metal wargaming models over the next few years - what they're going to use when the price of oil heads north again I don't know). I think GW should have gone all out to ensure that the quality of these releases matched their hype. Now, the entrenched critics have more ammunition, and many of us who were prepared to give Finecast the benefit of the doubt are inclined to agree with the critics (and agree that putting the price up for what now appear to be poorer quality models is unjustifiable). The softness of the material looks like it might be a positive thing. I don't think GW can really be criticised if that makes it harder to strip models for the 2nd hand market. However, I do wonder about their resistance to normal extremes of temperature (cheap plastic kits have been known to warp in hot weather). And long thin components were always a problem in metal, as they were fragile and prone to bending - it sounds as though it's still better to replace that sort of thing. It's the miscasting that's the issue, and I'm prepared to accept even at this stage that GW have dropped the ball on this.

Finecast resin is very slightly pourus, which helps very much so with the assembly. If you add super glue to each join it will very slightly absorbed into the resin creating a very strong bond.

However, it's this ability which also makes it very easy to paint, ad the paint takes to the model really well. BUT! It is going to be pretty much impossible to remove paint from models without causing a horrendous amount of damage, and so is something I wouldn't advise.

Kroothawk wrote:And I also prefer finecast to metal (BTW Finecost sounds like the German word for "Delikatessen" which actually is another German word for it)

Ich bin ein Finecaster.

I will test it out... I'm tempted to buy lemartes AGAIN (well I got him for £8 online..) and do a direct comparison.. I would have to re-convert him but oh-well...

Hmmm 'Failcost' now? First it was 'Finecost' or 'Failcast', but now they've been combined into a word which now shares no similarities with the actual product...fantastic! I suggest we take it even further and choose a completely random word to describe this miniature line. Fzorgle perhaps? Or why stop there, let's use a whole SERIES of words to describe it. How about CRASSUS ARMORED TRANSPORT?

Sorry couldn't resist.


Anyway, given that finecast models are short in supply and being rushed as fast as possible to retailers to fill the holes in the miniature lines, I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that initially there are more miscasts. I would expect that once stocks have been properly replenished and production of the miniatures reverts to its standard levels that you'd hope for a drop in the number of defective minis produced...not to mention that experience with the casting material can only help as time goes on as well.

Part of me wonders why GW have chosen to release this range in a 'Big Bang' method instead of staggering the release to allow both their stock and supply methods to get up to speed and to allow for vagaries of casting to be ironed out.