Space Marine vs. Predator (read OP please)

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**b1soul**

Hialmar wrote:Assuming all the various soldiers and cops in the predator sources are the equivalent of even Veteran Guardsmen the Space Marine would seem to be a much tougher opponent for the Predator and more than a match for him.

the OP specifies the Predator/AvP EU
I'm not citing the movies, just like I'm not citing the Ultramarines movie with its piss-weak portrayal of marines

Connor McKane wrote:I don't make an argument dude.

that's nice dude, but notice the quotation marks when I typed your "argument"

So either you never read BvP by Dark Horse comics, or you just have a fan-boi chubster for Predator.

cross-overs aren't part of the Predator/AvP universe, genius boy
Batman and Gotham don't exist in the Predator/AvP universe

cross-overs exist in their own "what if" universes
other cross-overs include Tarzan vs. Predator, Judge Dredd vs. Predator, Magnus Robot Fighter vs. Predator, Terminator vs. Aliens vs. Predator...are you going to tell me that they're all part of the same universe?

if you insist on citing Batman vs. Predator, I'm going to cite Superman vs. Predator, in which a predator seriously hurts Superman

Brother Coa wrote:Is this a joke, really? Predator is so much overpowered. Like putting a Grey Knight Terminator against Tau Fire Warrior.

the marine has one huge advantage: power armour
the marine has power armour protecting his entire body, whereas the predator has partial body armour protecting like what...his crotch, shins, forearms, half his chest, and a shoulder?

MikZor wrote:i don't know much about their military.

PREDATOR MILITARY UNITS
Brawler
Description
If a Predator has great strength, speed, and endurance, it trains to become a Brawler. The Brawler is both a tireless scout and vicious front-line fighter. It is revered for its bravery and its ability to successfully attack any kind of foe at close range, no matter how dangerous it might be.
Default Weapon - Wrist Blades
As a matter of pride and honor, the Brawler relies upon one weapon only - its wrist blades. To many Predators, this is a humble weapon, but in truth, it is quite formidable, possessing a sharpness and strength achieved by no species save the Predators. Through its wrist blades, a skilled Brawler is a whirlwind of destruction, slicing, dismembering, and gutting enemies with alarming rapidity.
Characteristics - Channeled Fury
Once a Brawler starts attacking an opponent, it uses its training to channel its battle rage into an unrelenting stream of ruthless, cleaving blows. Only the largest, most skilled, or most heavily armored opponents can withstand this attack and actually fight back. Lesser enemies can only try to survive the assault or run from it, but not counterattack.
Characteristics - Lightning Reflexes
The Brawler is quick enough to strike leaping Facehuggers mid-flight. This knocks the Facehugger away and often kills it in the process. While a Brawler's reflexes are quick enough to protect it from any number of uncoordinated Facehugger attacks, they cannot protect the Brawler from being overwhelmed by multiple Facehuggers attacking simultaneously.
Upgrade - Glory Strike
The veteran Brawler develops an uncanny ability to deliver the perfect blow amid its furious onslaught. Such a strike does extreme damage and is frequently accompanied by the Brawler's hallmark battle cry. When a Brawler delivers a killing blow in this way, it is often spectacular - Brawlers are known to decapitate their enemies in a single strike as a method of demoralizing their subsequent victims.

The Brawler is an excellent all-around combatant. Its savage assault prevents most smaller enemies from counterattacking or escaping and its armor-slicing claws are potent against larger, more heavily armored opponents. In numbers, Brawlers can bring down almost any enemy, though sometimes without the cost efficiency of more specialized Predators. The Brawler's speed and durability also make it an excellent scout; it can often survive surprise encounters with even heavy resistance.

Hunter
Description
As its name implies, the Hunter excels at attacking its prey from range. It is dangerous whether playing the lone assassin or providing massed fire support for front line combatants. Predator vision mode enhancements are particularly useful for the Hunter, since they allow it to take maximum advantage of its long range plasma caster and strike targets from beyond their field of view.
Default Weapon - Plasma Caster
The plasma caster is a long-range energy projector capable of guiding armor-penetrating plasma bolts at distant targets. Moreover, the weapon's bolts explode in a burst of plasma shrapnel that damages other enemies near the point of impact. By default, the weapon's attack range is greater than the Hunter's visual range. Predator vision modes change this relationship, however, enabling the Hunter to act as a sniper.
Upgrade - Omni Caster
A bio-scanner and a multi-barreled firing mechanism enables this weapon to analyze targets and attack them with various types of plasma munitions. There are three kinds: 1) burst plasma, 2) fire plasma, and 3) dark plasma. Burst plasma is identical to that fired by the plasma caster. Fire plasma ignites targets. And dark plasma causes a controlled energy reaction that correlates its damage to the mass of a target, enabling the weapon to kill any enemy with a limited number of hits.

The Hunter is best used with Predator vision upgrades. With them, it can attack enemies from well outside their visual ranges - ideal for preemptive elimination of enemies that nulify the advantages of Predator cloaking. When upgraded, the Hunter's dark plasma is devastating against heavier "tank" enemies; no known opponent can survive more than ten shots from this munition. The weapon attempts to keep its target on fire, while striking it with whatever plasma causes the most damage.

Spear Master
Description
Among Predators, the Spear Master is recognized for its superior combat agility, mental focus, and dedication to craft. A Spear Master is one with its weapon, wielding it with a sublime grace seemingly impossible in the imperfect world of practical reality. It can keep a single enemy at bay indefinitely, send a horde of attackers hurling backwards with a single blow, or assassinate prey by surprise with a single, perfectly placed impalement attack.
Default Weapon - Spear (Combistick)
The Spear Master wields a single weapon - its spear. It is exceedingly sharp and resilient, though it does not have the armor-cleaving abilities of a wrist blade. The spear's advantage is that it can parry melee attacks, smacking aside claw and tooth as if they were hardly relevant. This only works on less skilled or smaller opponents, however - a sweeping Ravager hull blade simply cannot be stopped by a creature as small as a Predator no matter how skilled it might be.
Characteristics - Whirlwind Battle Method
When a Spear Master is surrounded by attackers, it executes its whirlwind battle method. This sweeping, spinning attack lands a blow on each enemy around the Spear Master - a blow of sufficient strength to parry most attacks and send smaller targets flying. However, it requires a fair amount of room to execute without causing collateral damage, so the Spear Master refrains from performing it when too close to more than a handful of allies.
Characteristics - Impalement Battle Method
If the Spear Master attacks an enemy while undetected through cloaking, it is able to deliver a critical strike of unmatched strength. The Spear Master relies on its extensive training to deliver a deep, impaling blow in a way that sidesteps its opponent's armor entirely. Whether through an eye slit or a soft juncture between chitinous plates, this blow often kills its opponent outright.
Characteristics - Phoenix Armor
As a rite of passage, every aspiring Spear Master must kill a Vy'drach (Phoenix) with only a spear. This winged beast lives in the infernal deserts of the Predator homeworld, surviving hear and radiation strong enough to bake most life forms. If the Predator kills the Vy'drach, its hide is fashioned into armor its nemesis wears for life. Like the Vy'drach itself, this armor is uniquely resilient to fire, energy, and radiation.
Characteristics - Conductive Recharge
A special armor-working process applied to the conductive vessels in Vy'drach scales enables the Spear Master to recharge its energy supply when struck by fire or energy-based attacks.
Characteristics - Lightning Reflexes
The Spear Master is quick enough to strike leaping Facehuggers mid-flight. This knocks the Facehugger away and often kills it in the process. While a Spear Master's reflexes are quick enough to protect it from any number of uncoordinated Facehugger attacks, they cannot protect the Spear Master from being overwhelmed by multiple Facehuggers attacking simultaneously.
Upgrade - Plasma Glaive
Veteran Spear Masters acquire the deadly plasma glaive as a symbol of their status. This double-bladed weapon seethes with white hot plasma that burns through enemy armor, giving it greater penetrating power than a standard spear. The plasma glaive automatically increases its power output in proportion to the number of enemies it is striking. During the execution of a whirlwind battle method, this power output calibration can add significantly to the overall damage inflicted.

Against Aliens, the Spear Master is the premier "crowd control" combatant. It is able to wade into a sea of lesser Aliens and leave a trail of dead in its wake. Against Marines and Aliens alike, the Spear Master is useful for safely killing small numbers of enemies with hit-and-run assassination attacks. The Spear Master's phoenix armor also makes it ideal for countering Flamethrower Marines and upgraded SADAR Troopers. The Spear Master is feared by some Predators for its near immunity to plasma weaponry.

Stalker
Description
The Stalker is the Predator equivalent of the Marine Sniper; it has the largest range of any Predator and it is the stealthiest, in that it can maintain cloaked status for far longer periods than the others. Like the Hunter, the Stalker strongly benefits from enhanced vision mode upgrades, since its weapon significantly outranges its default field of view.
Default Weapon - Spear Gun
The Stalker's spear gun is an unusually potent weapon. First, it enables the Stalker to fire at opponents from extreme range. Second, its strike is hard to trace to its firing point - the weapon's impact reveals firing direction, but little else. Third, it produces no detectable phenomena at its firing point, enabling the Stalker to fire at enemies from close range without fear of being detected.
Characteristics - Deep Infiltration
The Stalker wears a unique low-energy suit with microweave optical channeling that enables it to stay cloaked for far longer than if it used the conventional Predator cloaking mechanism. This benefit comes at a price, however, as the suit is fragile, provides no armor, and prevents the Stalker from moving quickly.
Characteristics - Telescoptics
The Stalker gains significantly greater benefits from vision mode upgrades than other Predators, enabling it to scout for prey at extreme distances.
Upgrade - Bleeder Spears
When upgraded, the Stalker's weapon becomes a monstrous thing, designed to enhance the drama of the hunt at the cruel expense of its victims. Standard spears are replaced with "bleeder spears", hideously barbed harpoons that drain their victims' vital fluid levels to just above the point of death. This makes prey more satisfying to hunt; bringing once mighty prey to a pathetic state, bleeding profusely, almost crawling to escape - to many Predators, this is the essence of an epic hunt.

When commanded properly, the Stalker is devastating. It can severely degrade enemies from long range while cloaked, all but eliminating their ability to respond in any meaningful fashion. The upgraded Stalker is even better at this role, since it can slay an entire platoon of Marines on its own, by bleeding them to just above the point of death before delivering a round of finishing blows.

Disc Master
Description
Predators giften with exceptional intelligence and focus become Disc Masters, warriors that mentally command their discs to strike multiple targets simultaneously. When basking in the full glory of battle, a single Disc Master routinely keeps three discs aloft at once, each of which can attack three targets before returning home. While other Predators are attacking a single target, the Disc Master is attacking nine, a feat that does not go unnoticed by its fellow clan members.
Default Weapon - Disc
The Predator disc is dangerous because of its capabilities against large numbers of enemies. It has a razor sharp edge, unerring mental guidance systems, and the ability to continue flight after its initial impact. Because of these attributes, a competent Disc Master can be expected to quickly damage many targets, no matter how agile they might be. Moreover, the disc is initially thrown with sufficient force to drive back those opponents without substantial armor or large size.
Upgrade - Nanovibronic Edge
When upgraded, the Disc Master gains a set of nine nanovibronic discs. These discs possess a high-speed molecular chainsaw around their circumference that can tear through even hardened composite armors. Worse, each Disc Master is trained in the art of Ka'Ri, or "death from within". This involves embedding three nanovibronic discs in an armored opponent and activating each disc's "haywire mode". Needless to say, few enemies fare well with berserk ripping machines embedded in their internals.

The Disc Master is best employed in a support role against enemies that are easily disrupted by the initial impact of each disc. Most Marines and all Aliens less powerful than a Predalien fall into this category. When upgraded, the Disc Master becomes an excellent all-around support Predator, stunning or tearing apart light and heavy enemies alike. This capability only magnifies in numbers - a large group can unleash a veritable hurricane of discs few enemies can penetrate.

Vanguard
Description
A clan's most seasoned close combat veterans become Vanguards. The Vanguard has both the honor and the responsibility of leading the clans melee assaults. Unlike other melee Predators, the Vanguard is well armored and carries an advanced weapon of awesome potency: the plasma scythe. The scythe's energy blade cannot be stopped by normal matter - a crucial attribute - given that the Vanguard is honor bound to directly engage the clan's most dangerous enemies.
Default Weapon - Plasma Scythe
According to Predator law, this eminently dangerous weapon can only be wielded by those who have earned the right to bear it. When it strikes, its blade leaves wounds filled with seething dark plasma. Dark plasma triggers a controlled energy reaction that causes damage in proportion to the mass of the target, enabling the weapon to kill any enemy, regardless of its power, with no more than four hits.
Upgrade - Killscreen Generator
Given its duty to lead the charge against even technically advanced enemies, the Vanguard requires a defensive system to protect against enemy fire. That system is the killscreen generator. This projection spines on this weapon emit unstable streams of dark plasma particles that vaporize incoming enemy projectiles. The killscreen can only vaporize so much mass per unit time, however, enabling enemies to overwhelm the system with large numbers of projectiles.

The Vanguard is best used to attack large or heavily armored targets like purebreed Aliens. Regardless of strength, no enemy can withstand four closely timed plasma scythe strikes. Hence, four Vanguards make for a particularly lethal heavy assault force, since they can kill any single enemy almost instantly. When upgraded, the Vanguard additionally becomes an excellent defensive choice, shielding other Predators from enemy fire and even leaping Facehuggers.

Hydra
Description
The Hydra is a military-grade heavy assault Predator, designed to wade into fierce engagements and methodically crush enemy resistance. Because its guided electroshock missiles are particularly damaging to enemies with advanced sensors, the Hydra is an excellent shock trooper, in that it excels at killing enemies that counteract Predator cloaking.
Default Weapon - Electroshock Missile Battery
The Hydra's weapon is its back-mounted personal missile battery, which rapidly fires guided electroshock missiles at enemies within a 360 degree arc. These missiles unerringly seek their target before delivering an armor-penetrating electroshock plasma warhead. This warhead jolts the sensory systems of whatever target it hits, causing extra damage to non-Predator enemies with particularly advanced detection capabilities.
Characteristics - Hydra Shock Barrage
If a Hydra is engaging more than a handful of enemies, it may determine that it is necessary to unleash a full-scale missile barrage. When this happens, the Hydra fires a missile at every target within its visual range, frequently resulting in a truly overwhelming storm of projectiles. Given the energy requirements it places on the Hydra's systems, this maneuver can only be performed periodically, and even then, only when the Hydra is not cloaked.
Characteristics - Tactical Supremacy Armor
Like all military-grade Predators, the Hydra wears tactical supremacy armor. This widely feared protective suit provides its wearer with substantial defenses against kinetic, fire, and acid damage. Its exceptional hardness also deflects outright any projectiles not specifically designed to penetrate armor. Consequently, enemies must make a concentrated effort to defeat any Predators possessing this defensive system.
Upgrade - Warhead Swarm
When upgrades, the Hydra fires electroshock missiles with multiple warheads. When a missile nears its target, it checks to see whether other enemies are within range of its warheads. If so, the missile splits into as many as three seperate sub-missiles, each capable of independently striking a different target. This upgrade can cause a Hydra shock barrage to release a mind-boggling number of independent warheads.

The Hydra is a dangerous combatant in most circumstances, though it excels at attacking groups of tough enemies from range. Its tactical supremacy armor gives it excellent staying power when outnumbered, and its shock barrage naturally inflicts tremendous amounts of damage in these situations. The Hydra is also an excellent shock trooper, using its electroshock missiles to destroy cloak detectors and thereby enable other Predators to engage in a sustained, invisible assault.

Blazer
Description
The Blazer is a military-grade heavy support trooper capable of rapidly turning its surroundings into a raging firestorm. Its arcing inferno beam ignites most enemies it touches, causing severe fire damage. No other known personal-scale weapon system has the ability to achieve the overall damage output of which the Blazer is capable.
Default Weapon - Blazer
The blazer is a shoulder-mounted energy projector that fires a sweeping inferno beam. Hotter than many stars at its core, an inferno beam works by instantly heating objects it touches to the point of spontaneous combustion. Given this ability, the weapon is designed to hit as many enemies as possible by sweeping in large arcs across its primary target. Since it does not need to be aimed with much precision, the Blazer can continue to fire even while on the move.
Characteristics - Tactical Supremacy Armor
Like all military-grade Predators, the Blazer wears tactical supremacy armor. This widely feared protective suit provides its wearer with substantial defenses against kinetic, fire, and acid damage. Its exceptional hardness also deflects outright any projectiles not specifically designed to penetrate armor. Consequently, enemies must make a concentrated effort to defeat any Predators possessing this defensive system.
Upgrade - Dual Blazers
When upgraded, the Blazer Predator mounts a set of two linked blazers, one on each shoulder. The dual blazers coordinate their fire in order to maximize the damage they inflict, by keeping as many enemies on fire as possible. With this upgrade, a single Blazer Predator can set an entire enemy platoon on fire in seconds.

The Blazer excels at spreading large quantities of damage across multiple targets. This works particularly well against ranged enemies, since they often arrange themselves in ways that are easy for the Blazer to strafe. The Blazer's ability to fire on the move is critical for attacking melee enemies, since it enables the Predator to run from them while continuing its strafing. Finally, tactical supremacy armor ensures that killing even a single Blazer requires sustained, coordinated effort.

**Deadshot**

All of this comes from AVP extinction which I quoted from early on in the thread.

**b1soul**

I would say an upgraded Spear Master with plasma glaive, upgraded Disc Master, Vanguard with dark plasma scythe, Hydra, and Blazer are the most powerful units

**Nicholas**

This is a crossover too however so not so different from Predator vs Batman or whatever. OP is over powered to the predator even with power armor. You put them in a situation, a hunt, where the Predator has the advantage, and kitted out the Pred with almost every weapon in the arsenal. All of which by what you said could cleave through Power armor even the standard arm blades while the marine has a bolt pistol and chainsword.

The fact that even when the Pred has a clear advantage and the marine still has a good chance I'm tipping my hat to Marines.

**b1soul**

Nicholas wrote:This is a crossover too however so not so different from Predator vs Batman or whatever.

I don't quite understand what you're saying
there's a Superman vs. Predator comic...the predator actually hurts Superman
cross-overs should be ignored, they occur in their own little fantasy worlds

OP is over powered to the predator even with power armor. You put them in a situation, a hunt, where the Predator has the advantage, and kitted out the Pred with almost every weapon in the arsenal. All of which by what you said could cleave through Power armor even the standard arm blades while the marine has a bolt pistol and chainsword.

bolt pistol and a chainsword can seriously mangle the predator with his partial armour

if the marine gets a power sword, the predator should get a plasma glaive or plasma scythe

**Psienesis**

K... but it's not a power weapon. Plasma, no plasma... doesn't matter. It doesn't parry a power field. You need a power field or, well, magic to parry a power field.

A non-power weapon attempting to parry a power weapon gets cut in half/shattered as the powerfield takes it apart on a molecular level.

I'm not quite sure how the Predator uses a melee plasma weapon without some means of containing plasmatic material (even 40k plasma guns require a magazine).... but, hey, it's sci-fi-magic. Of course, when the blade and/or shaft disintegrates on contact with the powerfield, it's going to spray burning plasma everywhere. This is probably bad for both combatants.

**b1soul**

Psienesis wrote:K... but it's not a power weapon.

K...you presume to know how an AvP plasma blade would interact with a 40k power weapon
it's like saying, "well, a power sword would definitely cut a lightsabre blade in half"

how the two would interact is open to speculation, but keep in mind that a plasma blade is not a solid object that can be shattered or cut in half

all we do know is that the "dark plasma" of a plasma scythe and the power field of a power sword are both very powerful
in fact, I think the plasma scythe sounds more powerful

**Cheesecat**

4 things:

1) Why is there no poll?

2) Where does it say that space marines are powered by nuclear reactors?

3) Space marines do die from blood loss you need oxygenated blood in-order to keep your tissue alive otherwise your body will stop functioning.

4) I think this would be a tie breaker because a predator and space marine are suited for two different styles of combat the former being stealth and scouting and the latter shock tactics and rapid assaults. In a straight head-on fight a space marine would win hands down, but in a place with lots of cover and elevation it would be a one-sided victory for the predator. You have to remember space marines are only useful if they know where the enemy is, not knowing where the enemy is isn't too bad for the predator because he's a master at tracking and he's so hard to detect that chances are he'll spot you before you spot him.

**b1soul**

Cheesecat wrote:4 things:
1) Why is there no poll?

sh*t, I forgot

2) Where does it say that space marines are powered by nuclear reactors?

I asked for a source, nobody could produce one

3) Space marines do die from blood loss you need oxygenated blood in-order to keep your tissue alive otherwise your body will stop functioning.

SM durability should be pretty high, but sometimes I think BL authours are a bit careless
in Age of Darkness, an Ultramarine impales a Son of Horus with his gladius and the SoH collapses and dies

I think this would be a tie breaker because a predator and space marine are suited for two different styles of combat the former being stealth and scouting and the latter shock tactics and rapid assaults. In a straight head-on fight a space marine would win hands down, but in a place with lots of cover and elevation it would be a one-sided victory for the predator. You have to remember space marines are only useful if they know where the enemy is, not knowing where the enemy is isn't too bad for the predator because he's a master at tracking and he's so hard to detect that chances are he'll spot you before you spot him.

sounds reasonable
what do you think the chances of the SM would be against a predator geared for war, let's say the Vanguard (see above)

**loota boy**

b1soul wrote:
Psienesis wrote:K... but it's not a power weapon.

K...you presume to know how an AvP plasma blade would interact with a 40k power weapon
it's like saying, "well, a power sword would definitely cut a lightsabre blade in half"

how the two would interact is open to speculation, but keep in mind that a plasma blade is not a solid object that can be shattered or cut in half

all we do know is that the "dark plasma" of a plasma scythe and the power field of a power sword are both very powerful
in fact, I think the plasma scythe sounds more powerful

That doesn't really carry any merit, seeing as it's just a "My dad can beat up your dad" kind of argument. I could agrue until the end of the earth that breaking things down at a moleculer(?) level sounds more badass than a dark plasma sythe thingy, and you could argue untill the end of the earth right back. Does it solve anything? Nope.

**b1soul**

loota boy wrote:I could agrue until the end of the earth that breaking things down at a moleculer(?) level sounds more badass than a dark plasma sythe thingy, and you could argue untill the end of the earth right back. Does it solve anything? Nope.

never claimed that my opinion was concrete fact
in fact, I even said the plasma scythe sounds more powerful
I know a lot of this is open to speculation

**loota boy**

Yeah, wasn't accusing you, i was just saying that we should keep the "Rule of Cool" arguments at home.

**b1soul**

Emperors Faithful wrote:Very strange use of the word 'vital' organ then. If you can survive without them, they're not vital. That's why a lot of SM organs are called redundant, becuase even if you stab him in the heart he's got another one.

if a "vital organ" stops functioning, you're in big trouble
a vital organ doesn't have to be fragile however
thus it could be difficult to stop the functioning of a vital organ of the predator

loota boy wrote:Yeah, wasn't accusing you, i was just saying that we should keep the "Rule of Cool" arguments at home.

I'd like to do that, but it's kinda hard for these two characters
the predator and SM are both prone to "the rule of cool" in much of their fluff

**Nicholas**

So the Marine gets it's sub par weapons because they could kill the predator, and the Predator gets all it's awesome weapons in order for it to kill the marine?

My point with the cross over is that if you think they don't have any merit then why try it with 40K.

**SwiftLord14**

A space marine would win.

**Psienesis**

Given that we are given fairly extensive explanations of how power-weapons work in the 40K universe, as well as fairly good descriptions of how plasma-projectile weapons work (they get hot) in the 40k universe... and, likewise, we have the same for both lightsabres and blasters in the SW universe... there's going to need to be a "common ground" of technological function in order for this to be anything more than a "X wins because I say so" thread.

Given that we know how power weapons function, and all of the Predator melee weapons are predominantly a solid, physical thing, with the possible addition of some sort of laser/energy/kickassium edge to it... a plasma spear/scythe/whatever is still subject to the matter-destroying properties of a power weapon. It may not destroy the plasma edge/blade itself... but it will certainly destroy the space-metal/space-wood body of the weapon that is generating that plasma-edge. Power weapons generally cut through weaker weapons with the same speed that a Predator's energy disc cuts through soft flesh... that is to say, extremely quickly, extremely easily.

Reading the provided description of a Predator's fighting style, specializing in blocks and parries with their pole-arm weapons (spear, staff, glaive, etc) and then making single, devastatingly lethal attacks with the business end of their weapons when an opening presents itself... they're SOL when fighting something they can't parry.

A Pred that closes to melee with a Space Marine equipped with a power weapon has made a grave tactical error. Not outside of the realm of possibility, however, as I am unaware of a Predator ever encountering a race that carries 40K power weapons or their equivalent.

What would happen, most likely, in this sort of battle is the two square off, size each other up, and the SM then makes the first attack, being that the Pred is going to plan on entering into a defensive stance, parrying attacks until the target opens itself for the killing blow. However, the power sword is not parried, instead destroying the haft of the weapon attempting to block it, carrying through to the xeno standing behind its now-shortened weapon, with the power sword tearing directly through its fishnet bodyglove and what body armor it possesses, most likely cutting the Predator into halves under the furious assault of the Space Marine.

This is why Preds should not melee SM wielding power weapons. Its advantage is going to be with stealth, cover, and the plasma cannon on its shoulder.

Edited for spelling...

**Nicholas**

"The armour's backpack contains the suit's main power source - a solar power converter and 100 solar cell batteries to store the absorbed solar energy, including a back-up microfusion array - as well as its environmental and life support systems and additional movement stabilizer thrusters for low and zero-gravity combat." Warhammer 40K wiki.

I have BA codex not SM so I had to dig and don't know if the source is right, but apparently it's an advanced solar converter that powers the suit. As well as a microfusion array.

**Chimaera2000**

I think that the not granting the Space Marine his iconic weapon - the boltgun - diminishes the equality of this match-up. Without being able to square off with the Predator at range, it's fairly safe to say that the Predator is capable of simply wearing down the Marine with hit-and-fade attacks with his plasma caster (if not eliminating him outright). Even with the Marine's helmet sensors presumably being able to ameliorate some of the effectiveness of the Predator's cloaking, without access to a weapon with a longer range than a bolt pistol or superior foot speed to the Predator (which is unlikely given the Predator's lack of armor and equal or superior agility to the Marine) the Marine is a plasma-charred husk.

**Cheesecat**

b1soul wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:4 things:
1) Why is there no poll?

sh*t, I forgot

2) Where does it say that space marines are powered by nuclear reactors?

I asked for a source, nobody could produce one

3) Space marines do die from blood loss you need oxygenated blood in-order to keep your tissue alive otherwise your body will stop functioning.

SM durability should be pretty high, but sometimes I think BL authours are a bit careless
in Age of Darkness, an Ultramarine impales a Son of Horus with his gladius and the SoH collapses and dies

I think this would be a tie breaker because a predator and space marine are suited for two different styles of combat the former being stealth and scouting and the latter shock tactics and rapid assaults. In a straight head-on fight a space marine would win hands down, but in a place with lots of cover and elevation it would be a one-sided victory for the predator. You have to remember space marines are only useful if they know where the enemy is, not knowing where the enemy is isn't too bad for the predator because he's a master at tracking and he's so hard to detect that chances are he'll spot you before you spot him.

sounds reasonable
what do you think the chances of the SM would be against a predator geared for war, let's say the Vanguard (see above)

If you go to your the original post and click edit you can add a poll. Anyways if both the space marine and predator were unarmed and unarmored I think it would be a toss of coin because they both have enhanced strength, reflexes, stamina, speed, etc. The predator's advantage being he has fangs and claws and the marine's being biological enhancements. I'll give my thoughts on the Vanguard later though.

**b1soul**

Chimaera2000 wrote:I think that the not granting the Space Marine his iconic weapon - the boltgun - diminishes the equality of this match-up.

By all means, give your opinion on how the fight would go if a tactical marine were featured instead of an assault marine in this match-up.

Nicholas wrote:So the Marine gets it's sub par weapons because they could kill the predator, and the Predator gets all it's awesome weapons in order for it to kill the marine?

How are power armour, bolt pistol, chainsword, and frag grenades "sub par"?
I've given the marine his standard war gear.
I've given the predator his hunting gear. I haven't even given the predator any war gear...

My point with the cross over is that if you think they don't have any merit then why try it with 40K.

I'm against citing crossovers as evidence. I'm obviously not against exchanging opinions in a vs. thread. The distinction is quite obvious I think.
Crossovers are at the bottom of the canon ladder and don't take place in the primary universe...like I've said, if someone wants to cite the Batman crossover, I'll just cite the Superman crossover. It'll just get silly.

Psienesis wrote:It may not destroy the plasma edge/blade itself...but it will certainly destroy the space-metal/space-wood body of the weapon that is generating that plasma-edge.

OK...easier said than done.
That's sort of like saying the predator's plasma blade would cut through the handle of the marine's power sword or power axe...or the predator would just cut off the marine's sword arm.

Fact is the handle of a power weapon is just as vulnerable as the handle of a plasma blade.
Even if the marine manages to cut the handle in half, the predator may just end up with two shorter weapons instead of a long one.

they're SOL when fighting something they can't parry.

Would the marine be any better off against a weapon that he may not be able to parry, something that could kill him instantly with one hit?
Perhaps the predator is quite vulnerable to the marine's power weapon, but I don't see how the marine has an advantage given that the predator has a weapon just as powerful.

A Pred that closes to melee with a Space Marine equipped with a power weapon has made a grave tactical error.

Again, I don't see how a predator armed with a plasma glaive would be at a disadvantage against a marine armed with a power sword.
Your argument rests on the assumption that a power weapon is superior to a plasma blade (a category lightsabres fall under).
How are you so sure that a power weapon can cut through anything? Surely there's an upper limit.

the Pred is going to plan on entering into a defensive stance, parrying attacks until the target opens itself for the killing blow.

I don't know where you're getting this idea from. Vanguards do not rely on parrying or a "defensive stance".
Neither do Spear Masters.
The unit description says that one of the advantages of the spear is that is can be used to parry. There's no indication that the predator will automatically adopt a defensive stance, wait for his opponent to strike first, and then attempt to parry.
In fact, the Spear Master uses the whirlwind battle method (which involves parrying) only when surrounded by many opponents.
Against a single opponent, the Spear Master uses the impalement battle method, which doesn't involve parrying. Rather, it involves delivering a critical strike.

**Neophiles94**

At a distance, the Predator wins through its cloaking.
At close range, the Space Marine thinks he's fighting an Eldar, so wins with two halves of Predator as a trophy.

**Nicholas**

They are the worst equipment a Marine uses so they are sub par, while the Pred gets dual shoulder cannons firing plasma that easily penetrates power armor, smart disc, pole-arm, proximity mines, dual wrist blades all of which according to this thread are designed to cut through armor
near-invisibility, multiple vision modes, amplified hearing, all in a hunting scenario where the predator excels. Considering he has all this while the marine only has a bolt pistol and chainsword. Make it a straight up fight between one of those Vanguard and a marine then it would be fair.

**loota boy**

I like how this is supposed to be a discussion, but you violently shoot down anyone who takes a stand for the marines.

**Deadshot**

I would say that the predator's combistick would give him the edge.The marines can barely see Harliquins,when they are the only things that have a big shadow over the top of them.The predator would sneak uop silently and Sprea him thought the throat,killing him outright.The pred could also throw it for a high speed missile that would cut a man in half.It could easily put a big dent in PA.Follow that up with the disc and a couple of dark plasma shots,and he wins hands down.If the predator was fighting a custodes,that would be different as they are far better and are designed to fight as individuals.

**sourclams**

Firstly, a lot of the older Predator fiction would depict Yautja as being pretty watered down relative to what appears to be the newer fiction cited in this thread that I have not read. Stuff from the early 2000s and prior has many depictions of Predators dying to handfuls of Aliens or 'tricky' humans in situations reminiscent to the movies (a relatively normal, unaugmented human finds a way to trick a Predator such that it is critically injured or incapacitated).

The first thing to be done in these comparison threads is to establish the baseline for both participants. It would seem that we're using a 'more powerful' fiction presentation of the Yautja hunter (i.e. would not lose to a handful of Alien 'dog' xenomorphs or an unaugmented human).

To make the comparison valid, we would have to then also use a 'more powerful' Space Marine depiction, like one of the named but lesser characters from the Horus Heresy BL series or Iron Snakes standalone novel (and therefore not a bullet catching chud, but not layered in infinite plot armor like a Marneus Calgar would be).

A few points need then be established:

1. Marines are not slow. They stand in metal cages while attack robots armed with hard edged weapons and chainsaws try to kill them, and are rarely ever touched, much less wounded. In sparring matches between Marines, especially the more 'elite' named character Marines, blows are often struck nearly too fast for the eye to see; Marines rely on muscle memory and psychotemplated training 'regimes' in combat. It is, literally, second nature to be in combat. As such, a backflipping Yautja hunter is not going to cut his throat due to '1337' speed; Yautja are not Dark Eldar archons.

2. Stealth/cloaking tech is not novel. One of the first books in the series has Marines squaring off of invisible elite guards. Between their helmet sensors and normal ingenuity (i.e. looking for disturbances in terrain where things aren't, as opposed to trying to see where they are) Astartes are quite able to deal with stealthed enemies. Again, I am using a 'more powerful' depiction of Marines here, not some bullet-catching chud from the Blood Angels omnibus.

3. Marines are freakishly resilient. They often fight without limbs or organs that function, and even without armor their musculature and bones provide natural protection.

The only real question in a Marine vs Yautja duel would be if the Yautja can stay at range long enough to pick the Marine apart with his shoulder blaster, and if the Marine would be able to evade the blaster's shots sufficiently or to neutralize it (all Marines are expert marksmen; shooting out the blaster or simply putting a bolt round into its torso is not the least bit implausible going by more powerful Marine depictions) before getting into close combat.

Once in close combat, the Marine wins. That's all there is to it. A Yautja in hunter kit simply doesn't have weaponry heavy enough to deal with a Power Armored transhuman. Yes, monomolecular edge, snares, stabbing and chopping blades that can kill a 'dog' alien through armored plates, that's all been tried and died against Astartes. You have to be both bigger, better armored, and more skilled to take a Marine down and Yautja are not; size/strength and skill is probably a wash (since we're using more powerful depictions of both) but the armor will simply carry it. The Yautja's only opportunity is striking the weaker joints or neck coupling; the Marine simply has to avoid its armored mask and bits and pieces covering its torso.

Marine vs Hunter-Predator, it's a scratch at range, dependent if the Marine can hug cover or if the Predator can plink him. Melee, no chance, it's the Astartes. Power armor is that good.

Against something more elite than a Hunter-Predator, like these Vanguard or Spear Masters or whatever this stuff is in the newer depictions, you have to compare a more elite Marine; i.e. not a squad sergeant. Against a captain or a Terminator or some of the 'invulnerable' equipment like storm shield, rosarius, iron halo etc I still say the Astartes take it in melee. Power fields would repel attacks sufficiently to keep an Astartes going.

**Psienesis**

Fact is the handle of a power weapon is just as vulnerable as the handle of a plasma blade.

Excepting that the handle to a powersword is protected by the Marine's power-armored fist around it. The Predator spear/scythe/glaive is several meters long. The Pred cannot hope to keep all of its length "protected" from something that cuts clean through it just by being in its way, and a spear, plasmatic or not, with the business-end cut off is no more than a stick.

A stick vs power armor does not a victor make.

Sticking with just the basic gear, though... well, depends on the terrain and whether or not the Marine knows the Predator is stalking him.

If so? Well, depending on the terrain, a Marine can use some of those Frag Grenades to rig up some pretty ingenious traps, especially if he has terrain that allows only one way in or out of a given area. The Pred either has to take out the trap somehow, or go off in search of easier prey, or eat a grenade.

Me, I would double-rig it. Either the grenade goes off, or, if the trap is dismantled, a single hidden bolt-pistol round goes off, striking whoever's in the area they'd have to stand to disarm the trap.

**Connor McKane**

loota boy wrote:I like how this is supposed to be a discussion, but you violently shoot down anyone who takes a stand for the marines.

QFT - The OP Should be edited to include which specific media you would like to use as canon, since it seems the vast amount of media available to many portrays Predators as less than awesome. That way you might not get so bent out of shape, and we can avoid hurt feelings.

So says GENIUS BOY!

**b1soul**

Nicholas wrote:They are the worst equipment a Marine uses so they are sub par...Make it a straight up fight between one of those Vanguard and a marine then it would be fair.

I didn't intend to stack this battle in favour of the predator. I gave the predator plenty of tools because a space marine is supposed to be a very tough opponent.
I was afraid people would just say "marine stomps" (which some people have actually said in this thread)
I never claimed predator blades would slice through power armour like butter. I made arguments that predator blade would probably cut through with some effort. It's all open to speculation.

loota boy wrote:I like how this is supposed to be a discussion, but you violently shoot down anyone who takes a stand for the marines.

I'm expressing my opinion in what has been (for me at least) a fun debate. I don't see how I've "violently shot down anyone who's taken a stand for the marines".
Frankly, I don't appreciate how you're trying to cast me in this light. I have been nothing but civil to you and other posters who have been civil to me.

Furthermore, are those who disagree with me "violently shooting down" my opinion?
I don't think so...we're exchanging opinions, but that doesn't mean I can't present counter-arguments.

Psienesis wrote:
Fact is the handle of a power weapon is just as vulnerable as the handle of a plasma blade.

Excepting that the handle to a powersword is protected by the Marine's power-armored fist around it. The Predator spear/scythe/glaive is several meters long. The Pred cannot hope to keep all of its length "protected" from something that cuts clean through it just by being in its way, and a spear, plasmatic or not, with the business-end cut off is no more than a stick.

The "white hot plasma" in a plasma glaive burns through armour, and the "dark plasma" in a plasma scythe "ignores normal matter". I don't see how the marine's "power armoured glove" is even a factor.
I think a valid argument you could make is that a power sword has a much shorter handle. A power axe would have a longer handle.

Furthermore, let's say the marine cuts the handle of the predator's double-bladed plasma glaive in half. The predator may just end up with two shorter weapons instead of a long one.
My point is that severing the handle of the glaive (or scythe) may not extinguish the plasma blades. Of course, we can only speculate.

Connor McKane wrote:That way you might not get so bent out of shape, and we can avoid hurt feelings.

I'm in perfect shape thank you. It takes a lot more to hurt my feelings. My regards to your mother.

**Abstract Catalyst**

In Predator, the predator is killed by a strong, but still entirely human, mercenary with no armour and a set of pointy sticks and logs.

In Predator 2, the predator is killed by a unimpressive police officer in a hand to hand fight.

In Alien vs Predator, two predators are killed by the equivalent of Tyranids.

In Alien Vs Predator: Requiem, a high ranking predator is killed by the equivalent of a Tyranid Warrior.

The predator doesn't stand a chance. In two of these examples they are killed by 'regular', unarmed humans, let alone 7 foot tall super-humans with power armour, the equivalent of a grenade pistol and a chain saw and a physique that makes army look like that kid on sports day who failed at everything

Plus, even normal humans are consistently shown to be more intelligent than Predators; Arnie outsmarted one using mud.

**Psienesis**

The "white hot plasma" in a plasma glaive burns through armour, and the "dark plasma" in a plasma scythe "ignores normal matter". I don't see how the marine's "power armoured glove" is even a factor.

Cause the Marine's hand is a much smaller target than a 10 foot long spear, only one small part of which is actually plasma or this "dark plasma" unobtanium element.

Marine is not going to stand there and let Pred cut his hand off. Your listed descriptions of the Pred melee fighting style indicates that, when armed with a pole-weapon, they favor the parry-and-block style until an opening presents itself. This, against a power weapon, is suicidal for the Pred.

Furthermore, let's say the marine cuts the handle of the predator's double-bladed plasma glaive in half. The predator may just end up with two shorter weapons instead of a long one.
My point is that severing the handle of the glaive (or scythe) may not extinguish the plasma blades. Of course, we can only speculate.

I may say the same thing for the powersword, but that doesn't make any sense. Neither of these weapons is powered by magic, both of these are people from a technology-using race. The Plasma Spear and the Power Sword are both attached to some kind of power-providing unit. Separate a part of a machine from that which provides its power, that part stops working.

Even if it did not, it doesn't matter, as it's no longer under the control of the Predator, as it's been flung off several meters, and probably buried itself in the floor or wall... possibly with enough force from the flight to burn through several stories of a building or ship... either way, it doesn't matter, the Pred has bigger concerns.

Not the least of which being it has just met a highly intelligent, highly trained individual who's entire body is a weapon, who lives and breathes warfare and battle, and who is personally invested in seeing this xeno die, and has the means to make that happen.

Xenomorphs might be vicious, nasty killers... but they're not particularly smart. Cunning, perhaps, in a bestial way... but not very bright. Space Marines? Intelligent, crafty and reasoning. Also, extremely driven to kill the enemies of the Imperium, and xeno scum in particular.