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Psienesis wrote:there's nothing that survives Exterminatus.

Quote from 4th ed C:Tyr


Some Tyranid creatures are noted as being able to survive Exterminatus.

The first way in which they survive is through smaller organisms,like rippers,burrowing beneath the ground and going dormant untill the presence of life is detected.

The second way was discovered when a Deathwatch team,inspecting the the dead planet of Ariane V,after being bombarded with Damnatus pattern mass-yeild cyclonic saturation,which had reduced the planet's surface to little more than drifting ash.Yet pict-logs reveal what was believed to be a natural rock formation rising up.It was in fact a carnifex that had survived the bombarment and entered dormancy to repair its wounds.It was destroyed bya melta torpedo.If 1 beast can survive,how many more"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Emperors Faithful wrote:A major disadvantage for the Yautja is the apparent lack of armour. A shot from a bolt pistol, which is designed to explode inside its target, will finish it off in short order. The same goes for close combat, while the Predator's weapons should have little problem finding weak points in the armour and sinking his blade in, the SM can handle that kind of damage. The Predator, on the other hand, doesn't look to me like it can handle a chainsword digging into his chest. COmbat wise you could say they are fairly equal, but the Predator simply doesn't look like he can take the same deal of damage.

What you are taking about are aliens that can lose an arm and regrow it,by applying burning crystals and keep going,even taking several,direct,close range shots from a pump action shot gun and get back up.

Like I said, right tool for the right job.

They should have blown the planet up.

Modern pump action shot gun<bolt pistol by a long shot

Bolt shells explode inside the target not to mention the initial impact. I find it hard to believe anything predator size can withstand two or even on hits from it let alone a bolter.>

Nicholas wrote:I find it hard to believe anything predator size can withstand two or even on hits from it let alone a bolter.>

Let alone a bolter? You know they fire the same shells, right?

Either way, they'd probably be able to take two or three penetrating shots to the torso before becoming incapacitated.

As someone previously stated, I would imagine the made up 40k stats of a predator to be pretty that of a Lictor. The only difference is this would be a Lictor with a gun.

Now, while necessarily fluff based, we at least all know that both Lictors and Space Marines are both exaggerated in the fluff, as well as their abilities, and its safe to assume their game stats are somewhat proportional.

Would a fluff predator be better than a Lictor? Possibly, but again, fluff will exaggerate, and if a predator were given game stats, it may be comparatively weak. If anything, the Predator can be no better than Death leaper, physically.

Nerivant wrote:

Nicholas wrote:I find it hard to believe anything predator size can withstand two or even on hits from it let alone a bolter.>

Let alone a bolter? You know they fire the same shells, right?

Either way, they'd probably be able to take two or three penetrating shots to the torso before becoming incapacitated.

I meant bolters can rapid fire, meaning four hits to the chest in like a second.

I don't know about two or three, but I don't know the Predator physiology. At the size of a predator though usually one or two craters where your chest used to be means your dead,

Nicholas wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

Nicholas wrote:I find it hard to believe anything predator size can withstand two or even on hits from it let alone a bolter.>

Let alone a bolter? You know they fire the same shells, right?

Either way, they'd probably be able to take two or three penetrating shots to the torso before becoming incapacitated.

I meant bolters can rapid fire, meaning four hits to the chest in like a second.

I don't know about two or three, but I don't know the Predator physiology. At the size of a predator though usually one or two craters where your chest used to be means your dead,

Read b1soul's post about halfway down on page 2. They're pretty durable.

I did one got stabbed by a scorpion giant and shot by a sniper doesn't say where, another survived a few blasts from a pump shotgun. I think all of these are more survivable, depending on where the sniper hit, than a crater in the chest.

Shadelkan wrote:As someone previously stated, I would imagine the made up 40k stats of a predator to be pretty that of a Lictor. The only difference is this would be a Lictor with a gun.

Lictors do have a ranged weapon in the form of flesh hooks.But I see the point.Just my £00.2

Nicholas wrote:I did one got stabbed by a scorpion giant and shot by a sniper doesn't say where, another survived a few blasts from a pump shotgun. I think all of these are more survivable, depending on where the sniper hit, than a crater in the chest.

I wanted to focus on the EU predators ("Yautja") but if we're talking about Predator 2, the predator survived 9 pointblank shotgun blasts to the chest and stomach (yeah, I just counted...the scene is on Youtube)

we do know roughly where the predator was hit by the sniper bullet
it entered the predator's back at an angle and cut through several vital organs...afterward, the predator still had to fight off human assailants and a giant saltwater crocodile

QUOTE from the novel South China Sea:
Coming from a different angle, the bullet entered its body. This third bullet lodged deep inside, coming to rest only after it had cut through several vital organs.
. . .
"The demon isn't dead yet," said Sukhon.
"The 'demon' will be dead if it doesn't get some expert medical attention. I put a bullet with an exploding tip right through its back. No exit wound."
. . .
Still, the predator's condition did not warrant self-destruct. It had been hurt worse and emerged victorious. Once, on a planet half a galaxy away, a venomous metal worm twice its size had shot up through the earth and pinned the Predator through the chest armour. It had chopped the head off, cut off the tail, and gone on to fight for another four hours with the rest of the creature inside of it, before withdrawing to repair the damage.
The wheeze as its breathing grew worse indicated deep-tissue damage, but nothing irreversible. Medical care on board its ship would allow it to recover.

I suppose predators may seem rather fragile in the movies, but in the EU they're tough as nails

The worm I'd say not that impressive as keeping it in the venom wouldn't affect a marine just as it didn't affect the Predator. The shotgun blasts as I said are from a modern shotgun which is nothing compared to a boltgun. The sniper however has convinced me that it would survive atleast one bolt wound, most likely not two. As I don't think it would have a chest anymore.

lets not forget, SM's have reflexes far superior to that of a normal human, so the predator would find a more even match. If his cloak can be spotted by a human, a SM could definately spot it in many situations. Also as previously stated, the marine is a crack shot with a devastating weapon. Im not familiar with predators in the EU, but could they withstand a bolter round to the face or throat?

Nicholas wrote:The worm I'd say not that impressive as keeping it in the venom wouldn't affect a marine just as it didn't affect the Predator. The shotgun blasts as I said are from a modern shotgun which is nothing compared to a boltgun. The sniper however has convinced me that it would survive atleast one bolt wound, most likely not two. As I don't think it would have a chest anymore.

the worm incident is like surviving something the size of an anaconda burrowing into your chest
then cutting off the thing's head and tail and continuing to fight

romegamer wrote:lets not forget, SM's have reflexes far superior to that of a normal human, so the predator would find a more even match. If his cloak can be spotted by a human, a SM could definately spot it in many situations. Also as previously stated, the marine is a crack shot with a devastating weapon. Im not familiar with predators in the EU, but could they withstand a bolter round to the face or throat?

if the throat or face is unarmoured, close to impossible
predators usually wear a mask
depending on the rank of the hunter, the mask may be more or less durable, and some predators also have armour around the neck

the quality of a predator's equipment depends a lot on the predator's rank
for instance in the EU, young predator novices often hunt xenomorphs using spears with wooden handles

just to illustrate the point, the teenage predators in the first AvP movie had crappy wristblades that melted upon contact with alien acid (even though their spears, daggers, and shurikens were all acid-proof)...and yes, the predators in that movie were teenagers, the director said so on the DVD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHV4JCwJoXk [4:28])

a veteran predator would have all the best gear

They did rules for a Predator in Necromunda once. In the supplement "Gang War" I think.

Compared to the other things the worm isn't that impressive on something the size of a Predator or marine it may not even hit any vital organs and I assume both have systems to counter act toxins I know marines do.

Nicholas wrote:Compared to the other things the worm isn't that impressive on something the size of a Predator or marine it may not even hit any vital organs

let's be fair here, if something the thickness of the marine's arm punched through the marine's chest...I'm not so sure the marine could just carry on
plus we already know that predators can tank explosive-tipped bullets cutting through multiple vital organs

I assume both have systems to counter act toxins I know marines do.

well, in Captive, even a toxin specifically designed for the predator's physiology didn't put the predator down...the predator continued to hunt

Space Marine Hands Down. Predators have been beaten by the Governor of Clalifornia, and a soft 50 years old LAPD cop, Batman... in fact I have yet to see ANY media where the Predator(s) have won....

So, yeah, Space Marine.

let's be fair here, if something the thickness of the marine's arm punched through the marine's chest...I'm not so sure the marine could just carry on

A Marine has a spare heart and a third lung... just to name a pair of redundant organs. They also can't bleed to death.

Marines can take a *lot* of damage and keep fighting.

Connor McKane wrote:Space Marine Hands Down. Predators have been beaten by the Governor of Clalifornia, and a soft 50 years old LAPD cop, Batman... in fact I have yet to see ANY media where the Predator(s) have won....
So, yeah, Space Marine.

1) you didn't read the OP or failed to comprehend it
2) your "argument" is easily countered by "Gretchin can kill SM"

Psienesis wrote:

let's be fair here, if something the thickness of the marine's arm punched through the marine's chest...I'm not so sure the marine could just carry on

A Marine has a spare heart and a third lung... just to name a pair of redundant organs. They also can't bleed to death.

Marines can take a *lot* of damage and keep fighting.

Beat me to it. I don't see how that sniper bullet was considered explosive as it said nothing about exploding it just went in and stopped. A bolt shell goes inside then explodes leaving an actual crater where it exploded you can't really shoot someone with a bolt shell without it turning messy unless it doesn't enter the body.

Nicholas wrote:I don't see how that sniper bullet was considered explosive as it said nothing about exploding it just went in and stopped.

good question, you should ask the author

"The demon isn't dead yet," said Sukhon.
"The 'demon' will be dead if it doesn't get some expert medical attention. I put a bullet with an exploding tip right through its back. No exit wound."

b1soul wrote:

Nicholas wrote:I don't see how that sniper bullet was considered explosive as it said nothing about exploding it just went in and stopped.

good question, you should ask the author

"The demon isn't dead yet," said Sukhon.
"The 'demon' will be dead if it doesn't get some expert medical attention. I put a bullet with an exploding tip right through its back. No exit wound."

I'm still not seeing an exlplosion in that statement if it's supposed to explode then why is he looking for an exit wound. It likely had a small explosion when it hit the Predator allowing the bullet to penetrate, unlike the bolter shell which uses it's initial charge and rocket propulsion to penetrate then explode inside the target with enough force to put a crater in the chest of another marine, which from what I read the sniper bullet didn't do.

I'd have to say the Pred.

bullet with an exploding tip

Nicolas wrote:I'm still not seeing an exlplosion

lolwut?

Expoding tip generally does mean an explosion,

Maybe the bolt round will likely have a small explosion when it hit the predator allowing the bullet to penetrate, just like the sniper shell which use's it's initial charge to penetrate then explode inside the target with enough force to put a crater in the chest of a predator, which from what i read a bolter would do the exact same.
Maybe the bolter will likely jam...
Maybe the marine will likely trip over....
Likely can be used for a lot of things, sure we don't know where the explosion was in the most minute of detail. But an explosion against the Armour/skin would still hurt, let alone a bullet lodged in your chest

Also the fact that predators are invisible and very likely to blow the marines head off while he's trying to use his OMFG spess mahreen super smell to sniff it out. Why would the predator reveal himself or get close for a chain sword to be effective, not to mention the fact that they would be pretty much equal in strength and skill of arms IMO. So landing that blow would be easier said then done.

I really think the preds got this one

He says it has an explosive tip, but describes no explosion leading me to assume it wasn't exploding in the way a bolt shell explodes. The sniper likely had a small charge allowing it to easily penetrate. Bolt Shells do not need an explosive tip to penetrate as they have both the initial charge then a rocket to propel it. They are designed to explode inside the target as I said leaving a large crater on the chest of a marine and leaving a human with no chest entirely. Their are no maybes in that it is how they are designed.

Nicholas wrote:He says it has an explosive tip, but describes no explosion leading me to assume it wasn't exploding in the way a bolt shell explodes. The sniper likely had a small charge allowing it to easily penetrate. Bolt Shells do not need an explosive tip to penetrate as they have both the initial charge then a rocket to propel it. They are designed to explode inside the target as I said leaving a large crater on the chest of a marine and leaving a human with no chest entirely. Their are no maybes in that it is how they are designed.

I know that's how bolt shells work, but once again whats to say the sniper round penetrated and exploded inside of it? As i read it, it penetrates and 'bursts' inside it's chest - damaging the organs as per mentioned. Unless the damaged organs were in line so the bullet hit all of them Not likely IMO.

Also the way i see a bolt shell is not as a monstros inferno of an explosion that 1 shots anything, it's as a small controlled blast simply to inflict more damage, like a hollow point on steroids.

It says cut through, nothing about exploding. It's very possible a sniper bullet hitting on an angle could hit several vital organs. It's not an inferno 1 shoting anything, a direct hit to the chest on anything marine sized however is likely dead, smaller definitely. Enough to leave a good sized hole in another marines chest although it is possible for that marine to live if not all it's spare organs are hit, which I said is also possible for the Predator because I don't know it's physiology. Considering it survived some of it's vital organs being damaged with the sniper, i have already said that it may be able to survive one hit, but two is pushing it.

Re-reading the quote i can see how you came to that conclusion, it also mentions it's the third bullet lodged inside him, not sure if they're all explosive tip, but i imagine so, since have a clip with one different bullet in it would be kinda odd

Bolters in fluff (which is biased to marines IMO) they do one shot pretty much everything, short of tanks/vehicles/daemons obviously. We know that it is akin to a small rocket propelled grenade, which i don't think anything like that has been used/hit a predator in their EU.

As you stated we just don't know enough about their physiology to determine if it would survive, i will agree that 2-3 shots would most likely down it however.

but...

It can go invisible like i said before, the marine won't have a clear shot. I imagine it would stalk him for a bit, realise the marine doesn't react to fear then shoot him with his shoulder cannon, take his helmet for a trophy and hit the showers

Some of the people who argue for Predators are citing text that clearly depicts them as borderline-marysue aliens. Going by that, its only fair to call into the battle the likes of Mephiston, Calgar and Draigo... yeah gg Predators, not gonna happen.

Dakkadood wrote:Some of the people who argue for Predators are citing text that clearly depicts them as borderline-marysue aliens. Going by that, its only fair to call into the battle the likes of Mephiston, Calgar and Draigo... yeah gg Predators, not gonna happen.

You don't know the definition of 'Mary Sue,' and you either didn't read or failed to comprehend the OP.

Posts like this are why these threads don't work.