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If the predator remains undetected and unexpected, and has a solid grasp on the marine's capabilities, then I hate to say it but the marine is going down. There is no way the predator is going to relinquish any advantage he has except by mistake, and if the marine indeed can best the predator in a fight, then the predator won't give him the chance.

If -any- of the following are true then you have anything from an interesting matchup to a predator shish kebob. the marine:

Knows what a predator is, and what he can do.
Knows he is being stalked.
Can detect the predator and is warned of his presence.

Beyond that you have to take into account that marines can differ a whole lot in terms of attitude, both from company to company, and individual to individual (in the fluff some marines have been highly arrogant and blundersome, while others humble and calculating) not to mention the difference in skill and constitution that is often a result of the marines mind as much as his physical prowess.

That brings me to physican prowess , as I see it, there is no argument for a predator being much of a match for a space marine physically, in that the astartes have a definite edge. In terms of skill, I think the predator by -far- has the edge in this scenario, and possibly is quite far in front in terms of technology. Taking everything else into account, I guess what it comes down to is given mutual awareness and familiarity with eachother's capabilites, can the predator's tech drop the marine fast enough. Transferred to tabletop then I imagine the predator would need to roll 2+ twice to drop the marine out of cover, but fluffwise you have something completely different. I don't think there is much question of the predator matching up to a space marine in close quarters or on even ground, but in all other situations you are effectively matching the fierce intelligence, agility and tech of a predator against the skill, robustness and willpower of a space marine.

My final thought on this, if you had 1000 predators individually hunting 1000 individual space marines how many dead preds and marines would you have.

1000 Dead Preds to 750 dead Marines.

Predators are nasty.

A Chapter of Space Marines can "pacify" entire worlds.

sourclams wrote:Firstly, a lot of the older Predator fiction would depict Yautja as being pretty watered down relative to what appears to be the newer fiction cited in this thread that I have not read. Stuff from the early 2000s and prior has many depictions of Predators dying to handfuls of Aliens or 'tricky' humans in situations reminiscent to the movies (a relatively normal, unaugmented human finds a way to trick a Predator such that it is critically injured or incapacitated).

Aliens vs. Predator Prey (the original AvP novel) and Predator South China Sea (a newer novel I've recently read) are the baselines I've cited the most frequently
Aliens vs. Predator (the original comic, same story as Prey) and Aliens vs. Predator Civilized Beasts (a newer comic) also come to mind

It's worth noting that Aliens vs. Predator Prey, while old, portrays predators as utterly dominant over xenomorphs and also describes predators as "two and a half meters tall"
Predator South China Sea features "a battle-tested Predator"
and Civilized Beasts features a veteran

young "student" predators and run-of-the-mill predators are usually portrayed as significantly less skilled than veterans, "battle-tested" predators, leaders, and whatnot

To make the comparison valid, we would have to then also use a 'more powerful' Space Marine depiction, like one of the named but lesser characters from the Horus Heresy BL series or Iron Snakes standalone novel

fair enough
incidentally, there are also Marneus Calgar-like predators...OK, not quite on that level but kind of similar, i.e. predators who solo-killed xenomorphs with their bare hands (see Prey and Hunter's Planet) and a predator who solo-killed a T-Rex-sized alien queen in close combat (see Civilized Beasts)

1. Marines are not slow.

pretty sure no one has claimed this, but I may have missed it

2. Stealth/cloaking tech is not novel.

I'm sure it isn't, but I think it can take a marine by surprise (as in the beginning of Horus Rising, in which the false Emperor's "Invisibles" take a number of space marines by surprise). Of course, if the marine has knowledge of the predator's cloaking, the marine will be much better prepared.

Furthermore, I think people are mostly pointing out the different modi operandi of the marine (shock trooper) and the predator (silent stalker). Of course, some people have said things to the effect of "predator has cloaking, thus predator stomps". Even I've rebutted those "arguments".

3. Marines are freakishly resilient. They often fight without limbs or organs that function, and even without armor their musculature and bones provide natural protection.

Could you put up some quotes please. I believe you, but so far I've come across mostly weak portrayals. In Age of Darkness, an Ultramarine used his gladius to stab a power armoured Son of Horus in the torso, and the latter promptly died. I'd like to read a few high-end durability feats of SM.

You have to be both bigger, better armored, and more skilled to take a Marine down and Yautja are not; size/strength and skill is probably a wash (since we're using more powerful depictions of both) but the armor will simply carry it.

I'm not sure what the high-end portrayal of SM size is. I've heard claims of 9ft and even 10ft (without any sources cited).
I know the greater portrayal of Yautja size is "two and a half meter tall giant" (see Prey)

like these Vanguard or Spear Masters or whatever this stuff is in the newer depictions

From the 2003 strategy game AvP Extinction, not that new really
I think Terminator vs. Vanguard would be a good fight.

Psienesis wrote:Cause the Marine's hand is a much smaller target than a 10 foot long spear, only one small part of which is actually plasma or this "dark plasma" unobtanium element.

did you read my entire post?

b1soul wrote:I think a valid argument you could make is that a power sword has a much shorter handle. A power axe would have a longer handle.

glaives and scythes have rather large blades
a double bladed glaive is essentially a pole with sword blades on either end

Marine is not going to stand there and let Pred cut his hand off.

OK...the predator isn't going to stand there and let the marine cut his handle in half
the predator would probably try to block with the plasma blade instead of with the handle

Your listed descriptions of the Pred melee fighting style indicates that, when armed with a pole-weapon, they favor the parry-and-block style until an opening presents itself. This, against a power weapon, is suicidal for the Pred.

please re-read those descriptions my friend
the Spear Master's whirlwind battle method (which involves parrying) is only used by the predator when he's surrounded by multiple opponents
The impalement battle method does not involve parrying. It involves delivering a fast critical strike.
Furthermore, Vanguards do not rely on parrying at all.

I may say the same thing for the powersword

you sure could
that's why I never made a big deal about it

Neither of these weapons is powered by magic

Of course not
but it's quite possible that not every part of that 10ft handle (closer to 7-8ft, really) is necessary to power the plasma blades
Case in point: when Obi Wan cut Darth Maul's lightsabre handle in half, one blade still functioned. The handle of Darth Maul's double-bladed lightsabre was only around 1-2ft.

OK...the predator isn't going to stand there and let the marine cut his handle in half
the predator would probably try to block with the plasma blade instead of with the handle

Based on the combat description you provided for the Spearmaster.... yes, he will, unless he knows what a Powersword is. In that case, the Pred is going to have to try to keep the SM at the far end of the reach of the pointy-bit, because once the SM is inside the arc of these two blades... he's going to pull the Pred's head from its shoulders and gak down its neck.

A polearm does not block with the blade. It blocks with the haft of the weapon. Trying to block with the blade requires both far too much precision and also negates the best part about pole-arms: Their reach. With the precision, while a Pred can probably match it... it is far too easy to feint into a move, causing the Pred to move to counter, and then attack from a different angle while the pole-weapon is out of the way.

The downside to pole-arms? Minimum range. A spear is a great weapon... until someone is closer to you than half the length of the spear.

Psienesis wrote:Based on the combat description you provided for the Spearmaster.... yes, he will, unless he knows what a Powersword is.

Could you please read my entire post before replying. I would really appreciate it.

b1soul wrote:please re-read those descriptions my friend
the Spear Master's whirlwind battle method (which involves parrying) is only used by the predator when he's surrounded by multiple opponents
The impalement battle method does not involve parrying. It involves delivering a fast critical strike.
Furthermore, Vanguards do not rely on parrying at all.

against a single opponent, the Spear Master will use the impalement battle method (which does NOT involve parrying)
this battle is 1v1...the whirlwind battle method (which DOES involve parrying) is only used by the Spear Master when he's surrounded by multiple opponents
the whirlwind battle method is irrelevant to this battle

I have typed this multiple times, but you keep ignoring it...it's starting to get a little frustrating

The impalement is an attack, not a defense. If the Pred is going to attack while the SM is attacking, either they're both going to kill each other, or the Pred's going to lose the business end of his spear, and a good length of the haft, when the Powersword comes through.

And, further, for the Pred, it's damn stupid. This is how that fight will go against the power-sword wielding SM:

The Pred lunges with the spear, seeking to drive it through the SM's chest. SM are, however, lightning quick. The SM twists out of the way, but not quite enough as the spear plunges through his thigh. The SM's powersword comes down, severing both of the Predator's arms at the elbow.

Now what does the Pred do? Shoot him with the plasma cannon? Possible... but he's going to need to cope with the fact that both his arms just came off, including the wrist-mounted control computer for his suit's nifty stuff.

Meanwhile, we know Pred's react to pain in much the same way a normal person would: lots of writhing and screaming. Both his arms just got cut off, after all. That gak hurts!

The SM is wounded, perhaps badly, perhaps even missing his entire leg... but SM are equipped for this possibility. They can and do fight missing a limb, two lungs and a heart.

Maybe he finishes the disarmed (see what I did there?) Pred with his combat knife. Maybe he decapitates it with the Powersword. Maybe he pulls out his bolt-pistol and puts two in its chest, or two in the unarmored top of its head. Maybe he tests the resilience of this xeno-metal against diamantine-tipped bolt-pistol rounds at point-blank range and caps it twice, once in each eye-slot.

As I said before, the Pred's advantage in this fight is going to be staying at range, sticking to the shadows and its stealth functions, and using its plasma cannon. Trying to take the Marine on in hand-to-hand is simply a tactical mistake for the Predator.

Psienesis wrote:The impalement is an attack, not a defense.

Yes, I know
but the Spear Master's unit description does NOT indicate a reliance on parrying in 1v1 situations...I'm glad we're clear on that
of course, you could assume that the predator would try parry a blade enveloped in a crackling energy field with the handle of his glaive, but your assumption would be baseless

the predator, like the marine, wouldn't be stupid
the glaive's advantage would be its reach, the predator would try to strike out from a distance from which the shorter sword could not strike back

This is how that fight will go against the power-sword wielding SM

you're entitled to your opinion but your story proves nothing
I could just as easily write the following:
The space marine swings his sword at the spear master. With lightning-fast reflexes, the spear master dodges back, the deadly arc of the crackling blade missing the spear master's chest by inches. The marine's attack leaves him open to counter-attack for just a moment, but a moment is all the spear master needs. Taking advantage of the glaive's superior reach, the spear master impales the marine through the centre of the chest. The spear master savagely tears the white hot plasma blade to the side, slicing through half of the marine's torso.
That was sure fun to write, but like your little story, it doesn't count as an argument.

Meanwhile, we know Pred's react to pain in much the same way a normal person would: lots of writhing and screaming.

are you just making stuff up now? where are you getting this from, care to cite a few sources?
even in the movies (with their watered down version of the predators), the predator doesn't "writh and scream" when he loses an arm
he still manages to save himself after falling from a tall building, cauterizes the stump of his arm, and continues to fight...no writhing, no screaming, maybe a roar every now and then

The SM is wounded, perhaps badly, perhaps even missing his entire leg... but SM are equipped for this possibility.

if you're missing a leg or if your leg is disabled, you're f*cked...you've just lost almost all of your mobility
what is the SM going to do? hope around like the knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail?
even if the predator has lost both his arms by that point, the SM is a sitting duck and plasma blasts (or any other follow-up attack) will easily finish him off

b1soul wrote:
Could you put up some quotes please. I believe you, but so far I've come across mostly weak portrayals. In Age of Darkness, an Ultramarine used his gladius to stab a power armoured Son of Horus in the torso, and the latter promptly died. I'd like to read a few high-end durability feats of SM.

In Iron Snakes an Ork bites through half of a Space Marines face, leaving him blind. The Marine kills the Ork, then goes on to lay down pinpoint suppression fire for the squad, sniping Orks by sound.

In Soul Drinkers, the Howling Griffons captain dueling with a Dark Eldar archon suffers multiple stab wounds from the equivalent of a power glaive (so lightsaber/plasma spear) that shuts down his primary heart and a redundant lung. Through chicanery, he goes on to one-handed throw the archon into the air and bat him into a giant hell-rift with his thunder hammer. In the same series, a Terminator veteran is engaged at range by other Space Marines, and absorbs enough firepower to destroy armored vehicles. In the end he is literally disassembled before he falls over, having continued firing his storm bolter with his guts having fallen out of a plasma-burned hole where his lower torso used to be.

Wolves of Fenris, Space Wolves that lose limbs continue a planetary assault, firing bolters off-handed and doing the whole 'living weapon' spetsnaz fighting deal.

Ultramarines omnibus, Pasanius loses his hand and goes on to solo a bunch of nasties on a chaos world.

Gaunt's Ghosts series, a bog standard Chaos Marine has to be shot in the head by hypersonic crossbow quarrels coated with a virulent toxin so many times that the shafts completely obscure his face before he dies.

Storm of Iron, a Terminator captain is stabbed multiple times by power weapons in the torso while he crushes all his attackers solo in melee combat before being dragged off to see medical attention.

Lord of Night, Zso Sahaal suffers massive shooting damage including having his arm nearly severed at the shoulder (such that it hung useless) and still stands up to a daemonically possessed Chaos Marine in a toe to toe fight sufficiently to escape the planet.

sourclams wrote:

b1soul wrote:
Could you put up some quotes please. I believe you, but so far I've come across mostly weak portrayals. In Age of Darkness, an Ultramarine used his gladius to stab a power armoured Son of Horus in the torso, and the latter promptly died. I'd like to read a few high-end durability feats of SM.

In Iron Snakes an Ork bites through half of a Space Marines face, leaving him blind. The Marine kills the Ork, then goes on to lay down pinpoint suppression fire for the squad, sniping Orks by sound.

In Soul Drinkers, the Howling Griffons captain dueling with a Dark Eldar archon suffers multiple stab wounds from the equivalent of a power glaive (so lightsaber/plasma spear) that shuts down his primary heart and a redundant lung. Through chicanery, he goes on to one-handed throw the archon into the air and bat him into a giant hell-rift with his thunder hammer.

Wolves of Fenris, Space Wolves that lose limbs continue a planetary assault, firing bolters off-handed and doing the whole 'living weapon' spetsnaz fighting deal.

Ultramarines omnibus, Pasanius loses his hand and goes on to solo a bunch of nasties on a chaos world.

Gaunt's Ghosts series, a bog standard Chaos Marine has to be shot in the head by hypersonic crossbow quarrels coated with a virulent toxin so many times that the shafts completely obscure his face before he dies.

Storm of Iron, a Terminator captain is stabbed multiple times by power weapons in the torso while he crushes all his attackers solo in melee combat before being dragged off to see medical attention.

Lord of Night, Zso Sahaal suffers massive shooting damage including having his arm nearly severed at the shoulder (such that it hung useless) and still stands up to a daemonically possessed Chaos Marine in a toe to toe fight sufficiently to escape the planet.

Pasanius doesn't lose his hand. He loses his whole goddamed arm.

Well, it's more like his entire forearm. But yeah, you're right.

sourclams wrote:In Iron Snakes...

thanks for the descriptions
I would've preferred quotes but I suppose it would be too much to type

anyway, that is a far cry from being stabbed by a gladius and dying...but hey, it was an ULTRAMARINES gladius
BL is quite inconsistent, but the same could be said for a fair portion of the Predator stuff

Marine v Marine combat tends to gloss over Marine resiliency because it's Marine combat prowess that's doing the killing. Unstoppable Force/Immovable object kind of deal. Marines generally know how to maximize their damage against other Marines.

are you just making stuff up now? where are you getting this from, care to cite a few sources?

Basically every film, comic book, graphic novel, web-comic, animated short and writer posting that features Predators suffering grievous bodily harm. Usually, they depict such scenes with the Pred with his mask off, mouth-fangs all spread wide with "GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" done in red or yellow letters across three frames.

It's been damn near 20 years since I read AvP, and I'm pretty sure I sold all of them at a garage sale for a nickle a pop sometime around 1996.

what is the SM going to do? hope around like the knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail?

Yes. And, out of spite, he might kick the Predator to death with his one remaining leg.

The space marine swings his sword at the spear master. With lightning-fast reflexes, the spear master dodges back, the deadly arc of the crackling blade missing the spear master's chest by inches. The marine's attack leaves him open to counter-attack for just a moment, but a moment is all the spear master needs. Taking advantage of the glaive's superior reach, the spear master impales the marine through the centre of the chest. The spear master savagely tears the white hot plasma blade to the side, slicing through half of the marine's torso.

If that were physically possible... but it's not. Predators are gangly motherfethers. They're tall and, though muscular, rather thin for their size, with huge-ass heads. This makes them proportionately top-heavy, especially once you add in the fact that all their armor and heavy weapons (plasma cannon, wrist-rocket thing, etc) is on their back and on their shoulders, arms and torso.

Now, this guy you're talking about is trying to drive his spear through a guy. This is going to require a lot of "oomph" behind the push, as depicted in all the Predator comics with the thing trying to stab something big... he's nearly half-bent, either with his legs splayed and feet on the floor (for bracing) or one leg curled up (usually the rear leg, as he's lunging forward to drive the spear into something) to allow him to throw his weight forward behind the attack. In either event, there's no "springing back" for him in this attack stance, his balance and weight isn't in the proper alignment to let him do it. It doesn't matter that he's a xeno... Predators can't fly and we've never seen one levitate. He's humanoid, and their mass is near-identical to humans, by scale. That is to say, his center of balance is in the center of his chest. Leaning forward like that over the spear? He's not doing any leaping back, unless he wants to end up on his face. His body just isn't designed for something like that.

Were he a snake or tailed creature, with a much lower center of balance or the ability to coil and "spring"... maybe. But now we're talking about another xeno entirely.

This is why these guys try to kill their single foes with a single, powerful thrust. If they miss? They're off-balance, and open to counter-attacks. However, given that they normally fight either regular humans, who stand there and piss themselves, or acid-blooded Xenomorphs, who tend to stand there and show off their twin mouth-bits and drool... well, they don't miss that often.

you guys do know the difference between a nuclear reactor and a nuclear bomb right?

Psienesis wrote:Basically every film, comic book, graphic novel, web-comic, animated short and writer posting that features Predators suffering grievous bodily harm.

oh, so you did make it up

Yes. And, out of spite, he might kick the Predator to death with his one remaining leg.

lol, I can't really argue with that

Predators are gangly motherfethers

Predator South China Sea

Out of a sudden, quivering, golden light, a creature with the rough face of a lion appeared behind Peake. It dwarfed them all by a good foot or two. Horia gasped, realised it wasn't a lion's face at all, but a grey helmet with a lion's face painted in blood on top of it. Coming out from the helmet were thick snakes that resembled dreadlocks. It had on full body armour, cross-stitched with thousands of lines and pockmarks, like it had taken a stroll through a war zone or the ninth circle of hell. Nasty-looking claws. Some sort of weapon on its shoulder. Knives like he'd never seen at its side. The thing wasn't just tall. It was thick in a way that suggested rippling bands of solid muscle. Horia had seen a wrestler like that once - the Mountain of Romania he'd been called - but the Mountain was always slow and inflexible. This thing before them moved quickly.

Bloody Sands of Time
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/47083/1943489-preblsnds2_025.jpg

predators also have incredibly powerful legs (think about their leaping ability), their legs would be pretty heavy
even the movie predators are not "gangly" (muscular and lean, sure...but gangly? no)
are you looking at an action figure?

Thrill of the Hunt
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/47083/1873855-thrill_of_the_hunt_pg27_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/47083/1873856-thrill_of_the_hunt_pg28_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/47083/1873857-thrill_of_the_hunt_pg29_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/47083/1873858-thrill_of_the_hunt_pg30_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/47083/1873859-thrill_of_the_hunt_pg31_super.jpg (predator easily clears a 40ft fence while carrying an adult man)

Finally, impaling a marine with a PLASMA GLAIVE would not require a lot of oomph. The blade would easily burn through the marine's armour with little to no effort.

b1soul wrote:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/47083/1873859-thrill_of_the_hunt_pg31_super.jpg (predator easily clears a 40ft fence while carrying an adult man)

Is that a round glancing off his left shoulder?

DejaVu...

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/space-marine-vs-predator/610532/?

For the whole Spear vs Space Marine charge attack with Sword, the Marine is enough of a zealot to tank the spear in a part of his torso, keep moving deeper into the spear and decapitate or cripple the predator with a good swipe.

Seriously, how will the Predator use his spear when the cutting plasma part has completely gone through the Marine (he can take it)?

I think we are all missing an important thing here...

Nerivant wrote:Is that a round glancing off his left shoulder?

I don't think so
it looks like a normal hit

oh, so you did make it up

Did you miss the part where I said I last read AvP 20 years ago? I no longer own the titles to scan pictures out of.

Secondly, the part from South China Sea you've quoted is in reference to a single, specific Pred. Look at the artwork from the comics, the graphic novels, the animated shorts in AVP:R, or, hell, the movies in general... the Preds are all shapes and sizes, but their average members, whether warriors or the "chiefs" or whatever, are tall, but comparatively narrow creatures. As opposed to a Space Marine, who is likewise tall, but also incredibly heavy-set.

And, yeah, gangly. They have comparatively long limbs (both arms and legs) and relatively compact torsos. Not in every instance, of course, but, on average. This is handy for combat (reach is always good), but does present some interesting challenges, which they've no doubt evolved their combat style, not to mention their gait and stance, in compensation for (as they've always been built this way), but in certain circumstances may prove disadvantageous (which is not uncommon to humanoid creatures, such as having one's primary sensory organs in the same location that one's brain is in... peeking around a corner might get your head blown off, rather than just an eye-stalk).

Here's some other Predator art that shows that these guys are shaped like an inverted triangle... real wide on top, real narrow down below.
http://www.vgchartz.com/photos/pics/9958791aaa.jpg
http://www.michaeljacksoncelebrityclothing.com/FX-film-props-figures/fullpred4.jpg (true-scale cast of the original Predator from the film, mostly to illustrate the lack of armor... and the long, gangly limbs. Kevin Peter Hall was a huge dude.)
http://cdn.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_4536/subcat_22943/PREDATOR3.JPG
http://cdn.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_4536/subcat_22943/PREDATOR4.JPG
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab14/Spearaizer/Predator/RetractableSpear.jpg (ignore the spear, look at the official art in the background. Look at the size of his head! He's, like, Xeno with Downs!)

In the center panel of Page28 that you posted up above, look how wide the Pred's shoulders are compared to the rest of him. Picture how wide apart his feet would have to be in order to be shoulder-width. That's a better stance for balance than having your ankles nearly touching... but this guy's practically doing splits in order to stand that way.

Again on page 30 that you posted... look at the size of that Pred's upper body, compared to the relative narrowness of his hips. If he stands straight up, his feet are going to fall about eight, ten inches inside the widths of his shoulders. Sure, he's strong... but he's top-heavy.

As far as jumping about, yes, Preds are very athletic... but their legs work the same way a human's does. Their knees only bend one way. While a Pred can certainly manage a 40-foot forward/vertical jump... they don't do so well going backwards when already moving forward. If prepared for it, standing in the right way, ready to throw their weight backwards from a neutral position, sure, they can jump backwards quite a ways, but they're not in that position and their weight isn't neutral when already moving forward, there's not going to be much backwards-leaps in that position, unless the Pred wants to kick his feet straight out behind him and land on his face. It's just not physically possible. It has nothing to do with how strong or supple the Pred is, it's simply a matter of gravity and balance of a humanoid frame. The SM couldn't do it, either, because he has the same frame.

Finally, impaling a marine with a PLASMA GLAIVE would not require a lot of oomph. The blade would easily burn through the marine's armour with little to no effort.

Or so it would hope... though SM (in either fluff or the TT) aren't generally insta-killed by plasma weapons, and generally also get their armor saves in any case, so I highly doubt the Pred's going to be lackadaisical in this melee. Or maybe it would be, to its great disfavor, expecting the armor to just melt away.

The thing with using a glaive is this; once the blade is in the marine the predator can no longer use it, as the marine's entire body weight is stronger than the arms of a predator, meaning if the marine moves the glaive will be snatched from the predator's hand. The marine won't die from the attack, at least not immediately, and against a completely unarmed foe he would easily either kill it with a power-sword, or his bolt pistol, or even his combat knife seeing as predators have so many holes in their armour. Hell, he might even rip the xeno's spear from his body and use it himself.

b1soul the comics you posted were of all panicking humans. It would be much harder to jump about avoiding an astartes who even in power armor is much faster than human and keeps a level head. They are also all expert marksman training to hit eldar on the run.

Do you even know what the PredAlien's most deadly assest is?It's called Predatory Growth Response.


The PredAlien has an unusual adaption that enables it to better subdue Predator populations.As the creature engages in combat,it accumulates growth hormones within its body.When enough hormones have been accumulated,the creature can molt when it is safe.The beast emerges with a tougher and an extra layer of spines on its back.


A PredAlien also has an advanced metabolism that allows it to regenerate fast enough to be seen with the human eye.These 2 abilities allow the PredAlien to survive and become excedingly tough.They also excreed a fire retardent mucus that makes them virtually fire-proof and asre extremely stroung and tough.



Not only was Requiem about a PredAlien,that was a PredAlien Queen!

Lol, I had forgotten that a Pred had been killed by a bear...

Psienesis wrote:

oh, so you did make it up

Did you miss the part where I said I last read AvP 20 years ago? I no longer own the titles to scan pictures out of.

I asked you to cite a few specific sources
In response, you only made a worthless generalization claiming that "basically everything backs me up"
You failed to cite any specific sources

With all due respect, if the last time you read AvP was 20 years ago, maybe you should refresh your memory before making claims

Look at the artwork from the comics

it depends on the depiction of the artist
I gave you art from Bloody Sands of Time, which you ignored...
here it is again:
the image above is consistent with the South China Sea description

As I've said, the AvP-R predator isn't "gangly" (adj. - tall, lanky, and awkward in movement )
he's tall and muscular...yes, he's lean and not as heavy-set as a space marine, but he's not gangly
there's a really skinny action figure of the AvP-R predator that could be described as gangly, but he is not skinny in the movie

http://www.vgchartz.com/photos/pics/9958791aaa.jpg
http://www.michaeljacksoncelebrityclothing.com/FX-film-props-figures/fullpred4.jpg
http://cdn.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_4536/subcat_22943/PREDATOR3.JPG
http://cdn.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_4536/subcat_22943/PREDATOR4.JPG
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab14/Spearaizer/Predator/RetractableSpear.jpg

thanks for taking the time to link pictures
here's the problem, the predator isn't gangly or skinny in any of the scans
only the action figures portray somewhat skinny predators, but action figures (which are essentially TOYS) are not accurate
could you please cite fluff and not action figures

I can show you an even skinnier action figure of the AvP-R predator...the action figure is way skinnier than the actual predator in the movie

It's just not physically possible.

I never claimed that the predator would leap backward immediately after lunging forward
If the predator is trying to keep a distance (a smart idea because his glaive is longer) and the marine lunges in, why can't the predator move backward? this sort of maneuver is a part of combat footwork
if the predator "dances" on the balls of his feet, he can pull this off and avoid being slashed if he's quick enough

SM (in either fluff or the TT) aren't generally insta-killed by plasma weapons

plasma weapons are very good against power armour in 40k
against power armour, plasma weapons are better than bolt weapons



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Psienesis wrote:Lol, I had forgotten that a Pred had been killed by a bear...

that predator obiously wasn't a veteran then was he? veterans tear off xenomorph heads with bare hands, veterans have been known to solo aliens queens

but if you wanna point out low showings, OK...

human heretics have killed SM with lucky shots (will cite the passage later)
SM have struggled with Orks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX2v_cTG3K8)
SM have been killed by single bolt rounds to the armoured chest (Ultramarines movie)
an Inquisitor decapitates a CSM with a power sword (Eisenhorn)
SM have been stabbed to death by Eldar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Kiw2-v7Ss&hd=1)
CSM have been killed by a Tau Fire Warrior (Fire Warrior game)
CSM have been killed by Guardsmen (Gaunt’s Ghosts)

let's not throw the kitchen sink at each other

b1soul wrote:[
human heretics have killed SM with lucky shots (will cite the passage later)
SM have struggled with Orks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX2v_cTG3K8)
SM have been killed by single bolt rounds to the armoured chest (Ultramarines movie)
an Inquisitor decapitates a CSM with a power sword (Eisenhorn)
SM have been stabbed to death by Eldar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Kiw2-v7Ss&hd=1)
CSM have been killed by a Tau Fire Warrior (Fire Warrior game)
CSM have been killed by Guardsmen (Gaunt’s Ghosts)

let's not throw the kitchen sink at each other

Neither the Dawn of War games nor Fire Warrior are considered canon. Not to mention the fact that for the DOW videos they are both intros, and so even less fluff-accurate than the game's campaigns. Plus, Fire Warrior is universally considered to be complete rubbish fluff-wise, if not then Fire Warriors would be the most feared warriors in the universe, seeing as one single handedly defeated about 1000 guardsmen, hundreds of loyalist and chaos space marines, chaos dreadnoughts, chaos spawn, a Valkyrie, some chaos sorcerers, some daemon princes, obliterators and a keeper of secrets.

But, if you want to play that way;

The predator in Predator is outsmarted by mud and killed with a log.
The predator in Predator 2 is bested in close-quarters combat by a completely unexceptional police officer.
In Aliens Vs Predator (1999 game) a human kills many predators.
In Aliens Vs Predator 2 (2001 game) a group of Predators are easily captured and imprisoned by humans.
In Aliens Vs Predator (2010 game) a marine (not Space Marine, just human) killed a predator.
In Aliens Vs Predator (2004 movie) a predator is overpowered by a facehugger, meaning it was weaker than the tramp in Requiem that manages to remove one.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

b1soul wrote:[
human heretics have killed SM with lucky shots (will cite the passage later)
SM have struggled with Orks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX2v_cTG3K8)
SM have been killed by single bolt rounds to the armoured chest (Ultramarines movie)
an Inquisitor decapitates a CSM with a power sword (Eisenhorn)
SM have been stabbed to death by Eldar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Kiw2-v7Ss&hd=1)
CSM have been killed by a Tau Fire Warrior (Fire Warrior game)
CSM have been killed by Guardsmen (Gaunt’s Ghosts)

let's not throw the kitchen sink at each other

Neither the Dawn of War games nor Fire Warrior are considered canon. Not to mention the fact that for the DOW videos they are both intros, and so even less fluff-accurate than the game's campaigns. Plus, Fire Warrior is universally considered to be complete rubbish fluff-wise, if not then Fire Warriors would be the most feared warriors in the universe, seeing as one single handedly defeated about 1000 guardsmen, hundreds of loyalist and chaos space marines, chaos dreadnoughts, chaos spawn, a Valkyrie, some chaos sorcerers, some daemon princes, obliterators and a keeper of secrets.

But, if you want to play that way;

The predator in Predator is outsmarted by mud and killed with a log.
The predator in Predator 2 is bested in close-quarters combat by a completely unexceptional police officer.
In Aliens Vs Predator (1999 game) a human kills many predators.
In Aliens Vs Predator 2 (2001 game) a group of Predators are easily captured and imprisoned by humans.
In Aliens Vs Predator (2010 game) a marine (not Space Marine, just human) killed a predator.
In Aliens Vs Predator (2004 movie) a predator is overpowered by a facehugger, meaning it was weaker than the tramp in Requiem that manages to remove one.

He only brought those out because the things you just said were already being argued. almost said the same exact thing as you too.

So those that like Predator say Predator will win. Those that like Space Marine says Space Mairne will win.

What is the point?

Not exactly, I mean, I'm an SM fan, but I will definitely give the fight to the Pred if it stays at range and makes use of its stealth, its cammo and the plasma-caster mounted on its shoulder.

It's just that I don't see a Pred being able to take an SM in melee, where it throws away all of the advantages it has over the Marine.