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Kanluwen wrote:

Flashman wrote:Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.

I don't remember the Ultramarines being in the Fire Warrior computer game. I remember the Raptors being in there though.

They were indeed. Peter Serafinowicz (voice of Darth Maul) played an Ultramarine captain. Raptors were also in there as antagonists in one of the early sections of the game.

Flashman wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Flashman wrote:Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.

I don't remember the Ultramarines being in the Fire Warrior computer game. I remember the Raptors being in there though.

They were indeed. Peter Serafinowicz (voice of Darth Maul) played an Ultramarine captain. Raptors were also in there as antagonists in one of the early sections of the game.

I'll take your word for it.

I've erased Fire Warrior from my brain, for the most part.

At least a couple of the BL novels have had some elements of Tau working with some elements of the Imperium, haven't they? Even if one or other side has later broken the deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't totally hate the rumoured fluff changes (I agree that more variation among Marine beliefs might be good, and I quite like the Ork split too).

Rules-wise, I'd like to see Tyranid alliances with Guard if allies are back, partly for fluff purposes, partly because access to Chimeras full of meltacultistvets would be very handy for making Nids competitive again.

More dice rolls = not good.

Pre-measuring would be great. I don't see why the rules should disadvantage non-carpenters.

Ian Sturrock wrote:At least a couple of the BL novels have had some elements of Tau working with some elements of the Imperium, haven't they? Even if one or other side has later broken the deal.

"Kill Team" had the Last Chancers working for the Tau, if I remember correctly.

I was never a big Last Chancers fan, so I might have the title wrong...

The Tyranid Codex has an example of a Cadian force arriving late to the Damocles Gulf Crusade 'just in the nick of time' to help prevent the Tau from being killed by the Tyranids. It all ended with the Cadians being in place to launch an invasion--if they feel the time is right.

timetowaste85 wrote:I think my previous thought on allies may be accurate: look at pages 136-138 of the fantasy book on how allies work. They are not combined in a single list, rather two or more people teaming up.

This is exactly how I'd envision an 'allies system' to work in 6th. It's outside of 'tournament play' and basically requires opponent's permission or else is designed for multi-player senarios.

GW knows how imbalanced a 'combined arms force' is, as that was one of the huge reasons for spliting apart the 3 Fantasy Chaos factions. Under the old 6th ed system, they were an almost unstoppable beast, being able to combine the best aspects of 3 armies into 1 god-awful monster!
I highly doubt we're going to go back to a system that allows you to take an army of psycho&rad grenade totting, Furious charging, FnP, Fleeting assault termie hordes!

Don't really care about the fluff. Background is nice but it's not why I play. I'm more concerned about the rules. More randomness = bad IMO. OK, 40k is not chess, and never will be, but the more randomness that 6th ed introduces the less tactical the game is, and the more you might as well line up your models and fire elastic bands at them like you did when you were 7.

EYIG

Flashman wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Flashman wrote:Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.

I don't remember the Ultramarines being in the Fire Warrior computer game. I remember the Raptors being in there though.

They were indeed. Peter Serafinowicz (voice of Darth Maul) played an Ultramarine captain. Raptors were also in there as antagonists in one of the early sections of the game.

Darth Maul was played by Ray Park. Are you saying he was voiced by somebody else? That would be asinine of Lucas to do, but I wouldn't put it past him. Different for Vader where the face was never shown and they needed a menacing voice to match his awesome stature.

Just wikipedia'd it. Lucas, you have officially pissed me off this day. Go feth yourself. Sorry for questioning you, Flashman, over Lucas screwing the pooch.

I wont quit playing 40k if 6th is this bad I will just keep playing 5th ed.

I hope most of this is bunk.

My Space Wolves will never help a 4 foot tall puny race that is terrrible in CC. I want them to be destroyed in a fine paste. Huron Blackheart and his Red Corsairs also cold heartingly agrees.

Kroot, you forgot the most important part (and final roll), the game itself: Step 9: Roll off with D6s to see who wins...

Sorry, very old joke, but it fits perfectly with the rest of your rolls...

Kroothawk wrote:If psychic powers really get random, why stop there? Make all weapons of tanks and units random. Or do it like this

Step 1: Roll for game system: 1-2 LOTR, 3-4 Warhammer Fantasy, 5-6 Warhammer 40k.
Step 2: Roll for army/race.
Step 3: Roll for each chart in the FOC, starting with HQ. If a unit is incompatible with all previous units, roll again.
Step 4: Roll for equipment and special rules for each unit.
Step 5: Roll for terrain.
Step 6: Roll for special abilities of each terrain piece.
Step 7: Roll for missions.
Step 8: Roll for sides and who deploys first.
TBC

Flashman wrote:That said the whole point of 40K is that all races are capable of kicking off against each other and will even fight amongst themselves. If you turn Ultramarines into the sacred guardians of Tau, you remove the potential that they will square off against each other in the game.

I completely disagree just because the Ultramarines are supposed to be the "sacred protectors" (something that I also think is absolutely rediculase but I am keepiong an open mind and will see how this pans out, who knows maybe they will pull something interesting out of it if it it is true) it doesnt meant that there are memmbers of the Tau empire that dont want the Ultramarines protection and feel that they can protect themselves. Also knowing how space marines demand everyone do things how they want when they want where they want no questions asked I can see plenty of opportunity for the Ultramarines and Tau to kick it off against eachother to better protect the race as a whole. This is just how I could see it happening if they make this fluff, it could actually make the Tau even more of an underdog race and kind of add a moral dilema to the fluff for the Ultramarines who have been seen as the most succesfull group of space marines as far as thier sector but now can be looked at as either protectors of the Tau or oppresors of the Tau could be interesting if written correctly.

timetowaste85 wrote:

Flashman wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Flashman wrote:Seem to remember that the Ultramarines chum up with the Tau in the Fire Warrior computer game.

I don't remember the Ultramarines being in the Fire Warrior computer game. I remember the Raptors being in there though.

They were indeed. Peter Serafinowicz (voice of Darth Maul) played an Ultramarine captain. Raptors were also in there as antagonists in one of the early sections of the game.

Darth Maul was played by Ray Park. Are you saying he was voiced by somebody else? That would be asinine of Lucas to do, but I wouldn't put it past him. Different for Vader where the face was never shown and they needed a menacing voice to match his awesome stature.

Just wikipedia'd it. Lucas, you have officially pissed me off this day. Go feth yourself. Sorry for questioning you, Flashman, over Lucas screwing the pooch.

No worries

To be fair, I think Ray Park's voice (as actually heard in X-Men when he played Toad) didn't quite have the right tone and was one of Lucas's better judgements. It also paved the way for a great in joke in Spaced which features Peter Serafinowicz in a minor recurring role.

At least, they only mention Ultramarines protecting Tau. Lets convert your blue models to other codex chapter color scheme and keep kicking Tau asses without remorse!

About adding randomness to the game: it doesn't kill tactics, it kills pre-learnt tactics. With some elements out of your control, you will have to adapt to different conditions each battle, making matches between common players less predictible. I think there are lots of people that are not part of a gaming club, but play usually with the same two or three friends. Randomness helps these guys.

Pacific wrote:

Sheck2 wrote:Why is everyone so upset? Now Smurfs can field armies with railguns, stealth suits, crisis suits...it's a way to keep SMs on top.

Because if it is true, it's the equivalent of GW pulling down its cacks, squatting over the background and releasing the most almighty of logs on top of it.

But the last bit about the orks is a little bit OOT though, which makes me think the whole thing is a wind-up.

I tend to agree.

Whilst not a fluff nutter, I don't find it impossible to believe that 10,050 years ago in game time, Horus told Roboute about a Chaos proof faction. I do find it incredible that the SMs would spend the next 10,049 years ignoring that.

I expect a lot of the supposed rule changes will come true. They have been prefigured in WHFB, after all, and if you make enough guesses some of them will come true.

Any of this is true then 40k is gonna be more dead than it is currently

This sounds like the biggest load I've heard in a while. It sounds like someones making gak up in order to try and steal a little bit of traffic from napkin drawing flyer reveal.

His Master's Voice wrote:All this hogwash just makes pancake edition all the more probable.

Agreed. Just disinformation designed to make us forget about the pancake edition, so it will be a "surprise" when it hits the stores.

And the McCain/Palin photo pretty much proves it...

False.

Bears.
Beets.
Battlestar Galactica.

I don't think I believe the part about the allies, because it will degenerate into 90% of all tournament lists being either Coteaz with an IG parking lot, or else the combination of Psyrifleman Dreads with Grey Hunters.

However, I do like the idea of my Necrons gaining some measure of protection from psychic powers, and then including Mephiston in a Wraithwing army with night fighting.

Kanluwen wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:
@ Kanluwen- The difference is that the added to a static universe. They didn't change such central tenets as Space Marines no longer hating aliens.

Uh...I think you need to go reread the original Tau codex.

1) An Imperial Fist Astartes accompanies an Imperial diplomat to deliver a message. He doesn't hulk out and "Raaawrgh, Xenos!".
2) The Damocles Gulf Crusade ended with the Astartes having a "newfound respect" for the Fire Caste.

You can hate someone and still work with them against a greater foe. See: the Allied Nations during WWII (Russia).

I agree with you completely - Marines are 'thinkers' (especially Imperial Fists! ) for the most part. There is room for differing interpretations; from the zealot of the Black Templar, to the far more pragmatic Ultramarine.

However, that discussion is skirting around the outside of the giant elephant sat in plain view in the middle of the room - namely, the revisionist fluff where by some 'evidence' of the Emperor actually wanting to protect the Tau is discovered, and the reasons for it. It's wrong on so many levels that really I don't think an analysis of 'why' is needed. In summary: no matter how well written that component will be, it completely destroys the setting of the 40k universe.

I hope to God that it isn't true. Otherwise the last vestige of 40k that has remained sacrosanct from the pillaging and rampaging Sales Department will be forever lost. Inserting the Storm Raven into every piece of Blood Angels background in their Chapter timeline is one thing, completely shattering the ethos and spiritual heart of the 40k universe so they will have an excuse to sell more kits (combined SM and Tau in this case) is another.

Oh I'm just ignoring these rumors, period, Pacific. They reek of trolling and if they truly did get them from an "inside source" at GW--that "inside source" is probably a register monkey at their local shop making things up as he goes.

The fact of the matter is that the Tau were unknown during the Emperor's time. They were discovered around the 38th or so millenium, and then promptly engulfed by a warp storm making their drastic technological boom possible as time flowed faster within than without.

I have to admit whoever came up with that is a masterful troll.

Kanluwen wrote:Oh I'm just ignoring these rumors, period, Pacific. They reek of trolling and if they truly did get them from an "inside source" at GW--that "inside source" is probably a register monkey at their local shop making things up as he goes.

The fact of the matter is that the Tau were unknown during the Emperor's time. They were discovered around the 38th or so millenium, and then promptly engulfed by a warp storm making their drastic technological boom possible as time flowed faster within than without.

Surely a few thousand years of "normal" time is plenty in which to develop a technological civilization? No need to inflate the timeline any further.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Oh I'm just ignoring these rumors, period, Pacific. They reek of trolling and if they truly did get them from an "inside source" at GW--that "inside source" is probably a register monkey at their local shop making things up as he goes.

The fact of the matter is that the Tau were unknown during the Emperor's time. They were discovered around the 38th or so millenium, and then promptly engulfed by a warp storm making their drastic technological boom possible as time flowed faster within than without.

Surely a few thousand years of "normal" time is plenty in which to develop a technological civilization? No need to inflate the timeline any further.

What including inter planetary space travel? Well we're not there yet. It must be the lack of team work

If the allies thing is true, I see it working like it does in Fantasy currently. It does not have any effect on a normal game, but if you play Apocolypse or something where you have different factions on each team, alliances effect how powers affect other team members, etc. I see the Tyranids being like the Skaven in Fantasy in this regard; they are distrusted allies for every faction in the game.

What this WILL NOT be is being able to buy units from another army for standard games. That would be ridiculous, even for GW.

While I don't like the sound of the rules changes, they're all plausible. We'll see.

The thing that gives me pause is the part about fluff changes. Things like "the Imperium fracturing" etc sound more than a little like the fluff change rumors going into 3rd edition. And of course they didn't happen. The stuff mentioned may end up being very subtle things in print. Still, I'm skeptical of any "fluff advancement." GW just doesn't do it a major way.

I don't believe these rumors, though I wouldn't hugely mind if they proved true.

Guys, the Ork thing was a joke - I nicked it off an archived version of Portent, from the days leading up to 3rd Edition. Point being, there's always rumors about the new edition bringing huge background "advances," and yet then never actually happen.

PS: If you take a look, you'll notice that the plastic Thunderhawk rumors have been around just as long...

I knew as soon as I read this rumor, all of the Tau haters would rear their ugly heads.

While I don't really believe this rumor to have one iota of truth, I would love so much to rub the importance of the Tau in the 6th fluff into the self-righteous haters faces out there.

And, honestly, to those of you would would leave 40k because of some fluff changes, good riddance. Seriously...if you have a problem with it, go play something else. It's no different than a child throwing a tantrum because something didn't happen the way they wanted it to.

I can understand somebody being upset if the rules are changed in a way that breaks the game, but how often does the fluff affect a typical game? Besides, it even says in the 40k main rulebook that the rules, fluff, etc. are there as a guideline, and you're always free to create your own rules within your gaming group. And, in the end, you can always revert back to good ol' 5th edition, as I am sure there are still folks out there who play with the "better" previous editions. Just my 2 cents.