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You know, I've been thinking about modeling a Psychic Choir, and my sense that the most grimdark version would be of ragged / naked children fitted with explosive collars and led by the female Commissar.

As I already have the female Commissar, I just would need the children. I'm thinking pre-adolescents would be ideal due to their obviously smaller stature, so I'd be targeting for models approx 15-18mm tall. Does anyone know of good, small, preferably unclothed GW models that could stand in for children?

Would Goblins (with new heads) work?

Naked children would not go well with a lot of people.

I'd go with either the ragged psyker or the kind with robes and staffs.

Why not? Because it'd be *actual* grimdark instead of ersatz grimdark?

The Imperium of the 41st Millennium is supposed to be a place, in which the end *always* justifies the means. There is no limit to the brutality that the Imperium would go to, and I think that this kind of modeling piece is a perfect way to show it.

"Why not?"

because it's naked children. somethings should just be common sense.

"Why not?"

As a parent you should understand that.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Why not? Because it'd be *actual* grimdark instead of ersatz grimdark?

Because some people are way too easily offended. That and it would be kinda awkward.

@JohnHwangDD

Hasslefree Miniatures has some good minis of children. I'd go with the 'ragged look'. I agree with BrookM, alarmingrick, and Vaktathi.

"Because some people are way too easily offended. That and it would be kinda awkward. "

even you, who i asume isn't "easily offended", realizes it's "awkward" or wrong. as a parent i find it wrong to my soul. as a parent i find it even more insane that a parent would suggest it!

And that is precisely the point.

40k is supposed to be this mean, dirty, nasty place in which the Imperium does horrible, horrible things to people, uses people as cattle and runs roughshod over them whenever it is convenient to do so. But this is only rarely shown on the battlefield.

Child soldiers, child slaves, make for a *very* strong statement of what the Imperium really represents.

Think about the Black Ships of the Inquisition and what they really represent, how things would really work. One may reasonably assume, like X-Men, that psyker powers would tend not to manifiest until the onset of adolescence. With active witch hunts in place on all worlds, aided, abetted, and encouraged by the powers that be, what would happen?

At that point, they would be uncontrolled and quickly found by the Inquisition. So we're talking about 4th to 6th graders between the ages of 10 and 12 years old. Unquestionably children, and destined to a short life of unimaginable horror.

And we're NOT supposed to show that?

Nonsense.

It never ceases to amaze me what "Crosses the line" on these boards.

and so you need "naked children" to depict that? you said it yourself "Nonsense".

Given the emotional reaction the very suggestion is provoking, yeah, I think I do.

in keeping with the thread, i'm definitely going to try to find some different styles for my Choir with some of the existing models, and probably some with Cadian bits.

DD, if you do make them, bring them to Oklahoma, i'll show an emotional reaction. these last few posts have suddenly shown me what "DD" really stands for.

Izzat a meatspace threat?

And as if I'd actually stop at a flyover state like Oklahoma, please.

LOL, how pathetic.

Can you take your naked children debate to some... other thread? It really has nothing to do about IG, or the rumors regarding them. Congrats on getting your shock value reaction, but 99% of people in this thread don't care.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Think about the Black Ships of the Inquisition and what they really represent, how things would really work. One may reasonably assume, like X-Men, that psyker powers would tend not to manifiest until the onset of adolescence. With active witch hunts in place on all worlds, aided, abetted, and encouraged by the powers that be, what would happen?

At that point, they would be uncontrolled and quickly found by the Inquisition. So we're talking about 4th to 6th graders between the ages of 10 and 12 years old. Unquestionably children, and destined to a short life of unimaginable horror.

And we're NOT supposed to show that?

Nonsense.

Crap, you know what I just realized? Adults don't power the Golden Throne...children do.

That's pretty, well...fethed up, to say the least.

Off Topic: Eh, naked children isn't the best thing to do. Clothed child slaves, sure. Naked is maybe a bit overboard. At least give them underwear or something.


On Topic:

It's so funny to see that Sanctioned Psykers are the saviors of the Elites section. Of course, I figured that I was going to use a bunch anyway, but the 405 points of 3 squads with 6 Psykers and 3 Chimeras is really good. Really, really good.

JohnHwangDD wrote:You know, I've been thinking about modeling a Psychic Choir, and my sense that the most grimdark version would be of ragged / naked children fitted with explosive collars and led by the female Commissar.

As I already have the female Commissar, I just would need the children. I'm thinking pre-adolescents would be ideal due to their obviously smaller stature, so I'd be targeting for models approx 15-18mm tall. Does anyone know of good, small, preferably unclothed GW models that could stand in for children?

Would Goblins (with new heads) work?

it's not necessarily the children that bother most people; it that they're NAKED children. while you're at it, you might as well give them swastika tatoos and paint them in blackface so you don't skip offending anyone.

Adults *do* power the golden throne, or more specifically, anyone found with latently psychic talent that can't be utilized by the Astropathicus or as a sanctioned psyker.

Naked childern psykers would not only be inappropriate for 40k, but also not make sense. Nowhere is it implied that psykers are sent into battle as children, they probably don't even have useful powers at that time. Sanctioned psykers are just that: sanctioned. They are trained, controlled, and not children.
Why would they even be naked? That makes no sense whatsoever. How you get from child psykers to naked I do not know

In an attempt to get onto another topic...

I plan on using my old Escher Necromunda gang as a Penal squad. I know it's not WYSIWYG...but where that are all armed the exact same that shouldn't be an issue, as long as I tell my opponent. I wouldn't bring them to a tourney anyway.
Even if I did model them correctly...there is a 1/3 chance that they would get an extra CC weapon...putting them out of WYSIWYG anyway.

JohnHwangDD, I simply don't know what to say. Yes, the background of the Warhammer 40k universe is very grim, but it's been expressed in a glossed-over, "keep our poor little minds sane" kind of way. We DON'T want to hear all the grim details, and what you describe certainly falls into that category.

I don't see how you could consider this appropriate to this thread and to Dakka. It's not a disturbing idea you mention in passing, and particularly troubling is that you seem to want to go to some effort to carry this out (and disturb other posters in this thread). I consider myself to be one of the more tolerant mods on this board (I let the whole "zombie dong" thing fly), but this is just too far.

Please refrain from posting anything further of this nature. I have to go soak in a tub of something caustic for a while.

Oh, and no threats on Dakka folks. I know what JohnHwangDD posted was incredibly distasteful, but the Mod Alert button will do nicely.

alarmingrick wrote:"Because some people are way too easily offended. That and it would be kinda awkward. "

even you, who i asume isn't "easily offended", realizes it's "awkward" or wrong. as a parent i find it wrong to my soul. as a parent i find it even more insane that a parent would suggest it!

I don't find it offensive or in extreme distaste given the setting, I wouldn't be offended or anything by it. But it would just be weird and lead to too many awkward situations with others. I don't think I'd mind playing against it or anything, and I think for people too get too worked up about it is kinda silly, but I do agree it could be creepy, but again so are a lot of models in 40k/Fantasy.

The same could be said for many other things in 40k though. We have had nipply Daemonettes, bikini clad stripper assassins, etc...

I don't think overtly sexual Slaanesh units would be out of place, but I do realize where they could be awkward.





There's a time for some things, and a time for others. slave-children Psykers are ok with some gaming groups and are probably not appropriate in others if they are easily offended.

Sweet! I was wondering how long this thread would go before lock.

In the Dark Herasy rpg book, Imperial psyker sanctioning takes an adverage of 15 years. Your child psykers may start out at 10 to 12 years old, but there closer to 30 by the time they hit the battle field.
Just so you know.

Centurion.

You know, at 80 points the Penal Legion isn't going to see much play, especially considering the immensely superior veterans.

At least they roll before deployment, though.

i'm with Vlad on that. i think we'll see some interesting looking conversions, but i'm more inclined to use Vets.

I'm sure the ethical ramifications of modeling can be discussed in another thread, meanwhile...

Kujo wrote:Are we pretty sure about Chenkov's next wave special rule? As I understand it, he can remove the conscripts at any time and then walk them back on the board at full strength.

Does that mean that you could string a 50-man conscript unit in front of your gunline, have them eat a nob biker unit's assault, then after pile-in moves just remove them so your whole army can shoot the clumped-up bikes?

EDIT: bad example. I doubt conscipts would stay for consolidation at all lol. The question is if I can remove them even when in combat with an enemy unit so that I can shoot it. (Also, if that enemy unit is within 12" of my board edge, could my respawned conscipts charge it again after my shooting and repeat the whole process?

Wow. I did not think of this before but this could be as good as the choir, so much potential. We really need a confirmation or word for word of Chenkov's rule.

@ JohnDD: Dude, I had the same idea. PM me if you find any good models for conversion please.

I plan to build lots of conversions for these new troops, I already got the tin can and string voxcaster built (will upload pics soon I promise) and a few good penal legion guys, but Psykers that I can bring to tourneys I have no idea what to do. Who has some good ideas?

Naked chilrden miniatures offensive? really? i mean little plastic models? they'd just look like midgets anyways (i haven't seen any good children minis)

Hell, it'd be cool if we could have a choir of psyker babies. i really want to field a unit of babies.