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Remember dead naked children with wings sown on and their brains replaced by a small computer is ok.........Live psychic naked children is not. OK, I think I got it.

Amazing what some people get a hissy fit about in the context of a miniatures game. *shakes head*

WARNING OFFENSIVE MINIS




But seriously.

Is there going to be any reason to take Conscripts?! for the savings on ONE point, you have to loose 1 BS, 1 WS, and 3 LD... seems like a bad deal imho.

1 point might not seem like a lot, but if it was 2 points, you could get nearly twice as many bodies as guardsmen, and that could be a bit too strong.

Normal Guardsmen should have been 4 points and Conscripts should have been 3 points.

But really, there's no real use for Conscripts unless you take Chenkov.

Actually, imagine both Creed and Chenkov together, using 'For Cadia!' on the conscripts and all that jazz.

That would be fun.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Normal Guardsmen should have been 4 points and Conscripts should have been 3 points.

But really, there's no real use for Conscripts unless you take Chenkov.

Actually, imagine both Creed and Chenkov together, using 'For Cadia!' on the conscripts and all that jazz.

That would be fun.

True, but I hope that conscripts will be useful w/out spending 100+ points in overhead

BoxANT wrote:Is there going to be any reason to take Conscripts?! for the savings on ONE point, you have to loose 1 BS, 1 WS, and 3 LD... seems like a bad deal imho.

Kujo wrote:Are we pretty sure about Chenkov's next wave special rule? As I understand it, he can remove the conscripts at any time and then walk them back on the board at full strength.

Does that mean that you could string a 50-man conscript unit in front of your gunline, have them eat a nob biker unit's assault, then after pile-in moves just remove them so your whole army can shoot the clumped-up bikes?

EDIT: bad example. I doubt conscipts would stay for consolidation at all lol. The question is if I can remove them even when in combat with an enemy unit so that I can shoot it. (Also, if that enemy unit is within 12" of my board edge, could my respawned conscipts charge it again after my shooting and repeat the whole process?

Seems like a very good deal, especially since you can potentially stop bikers/bloodcrushers from multicharging with a big conscript squad. This still depends on if you can remove them in combat but its still decent without it.

3 questions about this
1. Can we remove/walk on while engaged in CC?
2. Can we walk on when the unit has died (running from CC)?
3. Can we attach a commissar directly to the squad, as in a squad option, so it comes back with them? (How would an IC work with that since he is part of the unit? sounds like FAQ question)

JohnHwangDD wrote:
True, but NOT earning points back very often loses you the game, and I'm not sure I can envision any scenario in which 2 or 3 pie plates from the sky don't earn back 30 or 80 pts, scatter and all. Given that Guard don't move much anyways, standing still isn't a big deal.

Lol, indeed. Point taken. Still, there's obviously a difference between SIGAFH and the officer himself. When I look at the many new possibilities, gunline is just one of several archtypes of list. The future Guard can be a very mobile if not outright speedy force.

Inq + Mystics will kill whole units if they're positioned properly. I currently field Inq/Mystic in LR within 12" of 3 Demolishers (star pattern). My S10 AP2 Demolisher plates have wiped multiple whole units from the board in a single shot.

I did the exact same thing (well, within range of two Demolishers but hey) and the combo didn't kill anything. 4d6 just doesn't cut it.

sourclams wrote:

This:

The INQ + Mystics is a gimmick. People make it sound as if he would kill whole units all the time but that isn't the case due to its limited range.

doesn't make sense. Not really because it's wrong, but because if protecting your gunline is important to you, then you WILL take this unit. The average range of effectiveness for Inq+Mystics is 14 inches, which is precisely what you need to protect yourself from deep striking [multi-] meltas.

Perhaps. It has never worked for me, not against SM, not against Daemons. In slightly bigger games, it simply cannot protect every part of the line, and it's 2 KP's, something I'm trying to avoid at all cost, at least in my first games with the new codex.

Gestalt wrote:
3 questions about this
1. Can we remove/walk on while engaged in CC?
2. Can we walk on when the unit has died (running from CC)?
3. Can we attach a commissar directly to the squad, as in a squad option, so it comes back with them? (How would an IC work with that since he is part of the unit? sounds like FAQ question)

1. No
2. No
3. No

Chenkov's ability happens at the start of your turn, and you need to have at least one model of the squad alive to use it. You can't remove 0 models from the table. It's also not an Order, but happens automatically.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Gestalt wrote:
3 questions about this
1. Can we remove/walk on while engaged in CC?
2. Can we walk on when the unit has died (running from CC)?
3. Can we attach a commissar directly to the squad, as in a squad option, so it comes back with them? (How would an IC work with that since he is part of the unit? sounds like FAQ question)

1. No
2. No
3. No

Chenkov's ability happens at the start of your turn, and you need to have at least one model of the squad alive to use it. You can't remove 0 models from the table. It's also not an Order, but happens automatically.

Interesting. That restricts how aggressively you can play the conscripts. Conscripts+HtH= dead conscripts ( and loss of second wave ). So the trick is to keep them out of HtH and with at least one survivor. Not necessarily the easiest thing to do.

Clarification. Is Chenkovs ability cumulative? Can you remove multiple conscript squads during the same turn? Does your opponent get a Kill Point for the squad you remove?

..nevermind..

Sorry. Misread the post.

I'm going to use the concript rules as cultists in a Chaos army, the bad stats fit just fine.

I miss the option to field Sentinels with CC weapons....

Are Vendetta squadrons 0-1???

I've seen mixed info.

Has anyone else noticed that the Earthshaker cannon on a Basilisk is barrage? Meaning that if you take three of them you'll be using the barrage rules with large blast templates? If you roll a hit when scattering you can seriously wipe out anything except terminators, and large groups of them. Still not sure if the investment would be worth it given their minimum range though. A group of three griffons might be worth while though, only a bit over 200 points for 3 of them. Not the insta-death that the Basilisk is but still...

JohnHwangDD wrote:Why not? Because it'd be *actual* grimdark instead of ersatz grimdark?

The Imperium of the 41st Millennium is supposed to be a place, in which the end *always* justifies the means. There is no limit to the brutality that the Imperium would go to, and I think that this kind of modeling piece is a perfect way to show it.

Ah but as gamers looking for fun we're usually not looking to be reminded of the true cruelty of war. That's why I won't be modeling up 13 year Angolan boys as conscripts or building my Imperial Concentration Camp diarama.

Besides why would they be naked?

that being said I think creepy kids (clothed) would be awesome. Reaper and Westwind make kids, I think Mordheim might have them too. Westwind's Victorian horror kids are probably your best bet.

vonjankmon wrote:Has anyone else noticed that the Earthshaker cannon on a Basilisk is barrage?

This is nothing new. As soon as you bought the Indirect Fire option, it became Barrage. Now, it just comes standard.

And in Squadrons.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Gestalt wrote:
3 questions about this
1. Can we remove/walk on while engaged in CC?
2. Can we walk on when the unit has died (running from CC)?
3. Can we attach a commissar directly to the squad, as in a squad option, so it comes back with them? (How would an IC work with that since he is part of the unit? sounds like FAQ question)

1. No
2. No
3. No

Chenkov's ability happens at the start of your turn, and you need to have at least one model of the squad alive to use it. You can't remove 0 models from the table. It's also not an Order, but happens automatically.

Well 2 was expected, but having neither 1 or 3 really makes them pointless for anything besides preventing multicharges, and 20 of them will do for that. Not much point in spending 75 points to have a squad come back when for 80 you can have a whole second squad.

Well the important part about the Earthshaker is that you can now take them in squadrons. And thus make use of the barrage rules for multiple barrages in a unit.

What are the stats of penal troops? 'Cause if they're BS 4, then they'd be better than vets!

-A.

Platuan4th wrote:

Biophysic wrote:Well, in 5th edition, it's not a rule anyway, your whole army deploys at once, so I wouldn't be surprised if deployment as a unit or deployment as a whole choice wasn't even mentioned.

Go ahead and read the Deployment rules for Dawn of War.

I'll wait.

I'm not sure what Dawn of War deployment has to do with anything. It specifically mentions units deploying (not choices), and you still deploy all the units being deployed together. Okay, I see where I was unclear/inaccurate. My intention with the statement from my previous post was to say that each side deploys all of its forces together, not alternating as in previous editions. Many other armies have ways of deploying multiple units from a single choice (combat squad, dedicated transports), and to my knowledge, no rules address any exceptions to "choice" vs. "unit" in deployment, so I'd be mildly surprised to see Guard get an exception.

My apologies if I made you wait too long.

augfubuoy wrote:What are the stats of penal troops? 'Cause if they're BS 4, then they'd be better than vets!

-A.

According to Warseer, penal troops have almost the same stats as ordinary infantry. The only difference is the LD which is 8 for Penal Legion but this makes no difference due to the LD 8 sergeant that leads every ordinary squad.

IMO, Penal Troops might be useful for flanking. They also appeal to folks that want more variety in their army. But their inability to use SW or HW make them a much less desirable option than veterans. The 33% chance to get Assault 2 lasguns as well as their inherent Scout, and Stubborn does not outweigh their disadvantages. Reportedly the Custodian of the squad also is limited to a laspistol so you only have nine lasguns. I prefer ordinary squads and/or veteran squads where the sergeant adds his lasgun or bolter to the squad's firepower.

When Penal Squads were first mentioned, they were only 50 points, and sounded like they'd be a great value. But IIRC their points now is said to be around 80?

They have stubborn, and have a chance to get some interesting rules, but i can't see them ever making it into competitive lists :( However, for a fun flavor unit, they're not that bad I am going to convert up a couple squads and either use them as Penal, Conscripts or normal infantry.

You don't think flankers with rending or furious charge are worth 8 points? Even if they can also scout with their dedicated transports?

I dont think they will do anything besides die. IF you roll furious charge AND IF you get the charge you might strike simultaneously and kill a couple models. If you roll rending you will lose most of the models before they swing anyway. If you roll gunslingers they shoot just like a normal guard squad rapid firing, but after can charge and still have I3 S3.
Fun, yes. Useful, not so much. I think I would rather have ogryns than them though.

Still think it might be fun to flank my friend's carnifex with 18 rending attacks that only cost 80 points.

Guys, per Iorke's "request", if you have questions / comments to me WRT my possible modeling of a Psyker Choir, please PM me directly. Thanks.
____

Also, Penal Legion sounds interesting. I might dig up some Necromunda gangers for that.

so has anyone gotten their hands on a book yet?

I looked into it at the local GW.

First thing I noticed was that the army list are now structured as they were before the Marine book.
HQ - Elites - Troops - Fast Attack - Heavy support.
In the Marine books troops and elites swapped places, but appearantly this was too confusing to some players

Unit entries and their gear are still all over the place, just as in any of the last books.

The color section features more diverse Guardsmen that I would've thought the 'Eavy Metal team was still capable off, since most of the new books just featured out-of-the-box regiments.

Commisar Lords and Psykers are ICs, so they'll probably be boned once they reach CC with another unit.

Kujo wrote:You don't think flankers with rending or furious charge are worth 8 points? Even if they can also scout with their dedicated transports?

I could see rending coming in handy, but the fact that you only get it 1/3 times :(

Furious Charge + Fleet, might be nice. Assault2 lasguns, hmmm would rather have vets.


I think they'll be a fun unit, and awesome to model, but again, not too certain on their competitiveness.

I'll be taking two squads just so I can use the Forgeworld Renegade models I have. File off or fill in a few Chaos arrows and they're perfect.