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EDIT: Original post removed by myself for being rightly hostile.

EDIT: Removed rude response to unnecessarily hostile post above.

What the heck was that???

The final gasps (hopefully) of the Great Naked Psyker Children Scandal of 2009.

Im gone for a couple hours and I miss all the happens-on.

sometimes things on Dakka happen in the blink of an eye!

Hey Rama, a couple questions: did you see the cost of the Penal Troops? Do they count as troops or Elites? Did you see the "Snacks" rule for Ratlings? Are the Cadian Snipers any good? Should we still just take Ratlings?

Thanks,

-A.

both ratlings and snipers lack the ability to create templates. I'm not a fan.

ratlings and snipers have a chance of pinning IF whatever they're shooting at fails its armor and IF that same unit fails a leadership test. Now that most things that aren't IG are either high leadership, good saves, or both, dedicated sniper squads just dont appeal to me. Id rather have melta/plasma, an autocannon, or a demo charge.

Just a random idea, but in the spirit of uselessness, my hate for ratlings (concept and actual models), the psyker discussion and as a complementatry unit to the stupendously inefficient voxes:

Would a squad of mischevious youngsters with slingshots and peashooters be a good way to represent snipers?

It would give the old grumpy men on the forum an excuse to better empathise with their own commander equivalents too.

Are Vendetta squadrons 0-1???

from middle's reporting from the actual Codex:

"Valkrie. 1-3. 100 bang on. transport 12. No Ogryns ( They don't like the dark and i'm guessing they don't like flying either. ). MLAser. 2 Hellstrikes ( S8 Ap3 Ordnance. NO blast. One use only ). Searchlight. Extra armour. DeepStrike. Scout. MLaser can be a lascannon for 15. Swap both Hellstrikes for 2 multiple missile pods 30pts ( S4 Ap6 Heavy 1 Large blast ). +Pair of "sponson" HB's 10.

( I can not remember who asked but there are NO Vendetta parts in the Valkrie box )


Vendetta. 1-3. 130. Transport 12. No Ogryns. 3 TL Lascannon. Searchlight. Extra armour. Deepstrike. Scout. Can swap 2 TL Lascannons for 2 Hellfury missiles EDIT: for free ( S4 Ap5 large blast. ). +Pair of "sponson" HB's 10. "

it looks as if the Valkyrie and the Vendetta are both 1-3

Yeah, but is the squadron of 1-3 a 0-1 choice?

migsula wrote:Yeah, but is the squadron of 1-3 a 0-1 choice?

I believe he meant that Vendetta squadrons are not a restricted choice, you can take from 0-3 of them as normal.

So what's the significance of the Hellstrike missiles being ordinance, particularly with them not having a blast?

Basically, theyre Hunter Killer Missiles, statwise...

Ivan wrote:So what's the significance of the Hellstrike missiles being ordinance, particularly with them not having a blast?

Basically, theyre Hunter Killer Missiles, statwise...

Pages 58 and 60 in the BGB explain the significance of Ordnance. Essentially, if you fire an ordnance weapon you can't fire anything else that turn and you also get to roll two dice for armor penetration, counting the higher roll. It's not a bad weapon, but the Vendetta is so much better at cracking tanks.

Ivan wrote:So what's the significance of the Hellstrike missiles being ordinance, particularly with them not having a blast?

Basically, theyre Hunter Killer Missiles, statwise...

reroll AV pen?

I thought they were blast?

Just a question about the picture that BoxANT posted. He didn't know, so maybe someone here will:

Does anyone know what the tiles being used in this pic are from? They're not Space Hulk tiles, so I'm wondering where they originated?

Thanks!

BoxANT wrote:

BoxANT wrote:

Ivan wrote:So what's the significance of the Hellstrike missiles being ordinance, particularly with them not having a blast?

Basically, theyre Hunter Killer Missiles, statwise...

reroll AV pen?

I thought they were blast?

You're thinking of the Hellfury missles that are an option for the Vendetta. To recap:

Hellstrike = Valkyrie default weapon x2, S8 Ap3 Ordnance. No blast. One use only. Can upgrade them for 30 points to multi-missle pods which are S4 Ap6 Heavy 1 Large blast

Hellfury = Vendetta free upgrade in place of 2 TL LC, S4 Ap5 large blast 72” range. Ignores cover saves. One use only

No one really talks about either Hellstrike or Hellfury because they appear to be less desirable then the alternatives, except that a default stripped down Valkryie is appealing pointswise.

@H.
Well, I can tell you that they're not from Star Wars. There's a lot of blood on one. Hey, maybe it's from those guys who make thos industrial towers! I forgot their name though....

augfubuoy wrote:Hey Rama, a couple questions: did you see the cost of the Penal Troops? Do they count as troops or Elites? Did you see the "Snacks" rule for Ratlings? Are the Cadian Snipers any good? Should we still just take Ratlings?

Thanks,

-A.

- I didn't catch the point cost of Penal Legions.
- They are troops.
- I didn't notice any special rules for the halfling except something cover related.
- "Normal" Sniper squads are just a special weapon team (regular Guardsmen) with sniper rifles. No special rules whatsoever. Veterans can hve Snipers too and they get some camo options.
- I guess if you want to take ratlings rather then special weapon teams depends on what kind of army you want to play. Ratlings are elite btw., normal Snipers are part of a Platoon.

JB wrote:

BoxANT wrote:

Ivan wrote:So what's the significance of the Hellstrike missiles being ordinance, particularly with them not having a blast?

Basically, theyre Hunter Killer Missiles, statwise...

reroll AV pen?

I thought they were blast?

You're thinking of the Hellfury missles that are an option for the Vendetta. To recap:

Hellstrike = Valkyrie default weapon x2, S8 Ap3 Ordnance. No blast. One use only. Can upgrade them for 30 points to multi-missle pods which are S4 Ap6 Heavy 1 Large blast

Hellfury = Vendetta free upgrade in place of 2 TL LC, S4 Ap5 large blast 72” range. Ignores cover saves. One use only

No one really talks about either Hellstrike or Hellfury because they appear to be less desirable then the alternatives, except that a default stripped down Valkryie is appealing pointswise.

Thanks for the clarification JB

Sucks about the Hellstrike, they're just glorified HK :( 30pts for Missile Pods seems like a solid investment imo, dropping 2 S4 large blasts on a mob would cause a lot of wounds

And Hellfury... I really don't know what to say... perhaps if they didn't have the "One use only" I could see a reason, but why someone would give up two TL LC is beyond me.


The amount of pie we're going to have in the new codex is enough to give even the most bitter IG generals a manic grin.

Do any other armies have access to str4 large blasts, particularly in multiples?

A squadron of 3 Valkyries lobbing 6 blasts and 9 multi-laser shots that all resolve at the same time should have... interesting... results. A big ork mob should especially love that. I'm tempted to proxy it a few times and see how it performs.

Maybe hauling 3 squads of triple-melta special weapon squads, in case tank-busting is more needed than anti-infantry firepower.

BoxANT wrote:
Thanks for the clarification JB

Sucks about the Hellstrike, they're just glorified HK :( 30pts for Missile Pods seems like a solid investment imo, dropping 2 S4 large blasts on a mob would cause a lot of wounds

And Hellfury... I really don't know what to say... perhaps if they didn't have the "One use only" I could see a reason, but why someone would give up two TL LC is beyond me.


The amount of pie we're going to have in the new codex is enough to give even the most bitter IG generals a manic grin.

Thank Middle and all the other folks that have fed this rumor thread. I just consolidated their notes so that I can keep track. I'm looking forward to May 2nd so that we can all see into the dark, heretofore unrevealed corners of the Codex.

The pie plates are nice but I'm only using three: LRBT, LRBT, Psyker Squad. What the Codex offers me is a chance to finally play a mechanized company, which is what I wanted back in 2003 during the Eye of Terror.

I agree with you about the Hellstrike. The missle pods allow the Valkyrie to move 12" and fire all of its weapons (as long as you don't take the HB sponsons). Those pie plates seem to be worth the 30 points. I guess we'll figure it out for sure on the table top.

JB wrote:What the Codex offers me is a chance to finally play a mechanized company, which is what I wanted back in 2003 during the Eye of Terror.

And what about the current Codex stops you from fielding a mech Guard army?

Not enough Tanks, duh.

That's armoured company, not MechInf.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

JB wrote:What the Codex offers me is a chance to finally play a mechanized company, which is what I wanted back in 2003 during the Eye of Terror.

And what about the current Codex stops you from fielding a mech Guard army?

Two things about the current Codex made Mech Infantry less than desirable:

1. The point cost of Chimeras

2. The requirement to buy every single guard infantry unit a Chimera if you choose the Mechanized doctrine

The combination of these two conditions made the list less fun and less competitive than a pure infantry/tank gunline with some DS storm troopers. I did use lists occasionally with Chimeras for the HQs.

In 4e, I also found the restriction on carrying any unit other than the squad for which you bought the transport to be rather a problem.

5e and the new Codex, if it is in line with the rumors, make a mech company more playable

JB wrote:Two things about the current Codex made Mech Infantry less than desirable:
1. The point cost of Chimeras
2. The requirement to buy every single guard infantry unit a Chimera if you choose the Mechanized doctrine
The combination of these two conditions made the list less fun and less competitive

So you're really just complaining about current competitiveness of Mech Guard, not playability or options? OK, but the new Chimeras won't be so much better, as Guard will now be paying 15 pts for Extra Armor to make Mech work.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

JB wrote:Two things about the current Codex made Mech Infantry less than desirable:
1. The point cost of Chimeras
2. The requirement to buy every single guard infantry unit a Chimera if you choose the Mechanized doctrine
The combination of these two conditions made the list less fun and less competitive

So you're really just complaining about current competitiveness of Mech Guard, not playability or options? OK, but the new Chimeras won't be so much better, as Guard will now be paying 15 pts for Extra Armor to make Mech work.

Who needs EA anymore?

Before EA was a much bigger deal as it occurred on every penetrating hit and smoke launchers were extra, but now with smoke launchers on everything for free and pen' stunned only occurs on one result, why pay 15pts to mitigate something that occurs only 1/6 times?

And it's not as if the IG won't be able to field a ton of them. When your army has only 2-4 transports like many other armies, one not getting to move can be critical. When you are fielding 6-16 of them, it's not so much. Hell, I don't even take it for my CSM's anymore.

Extra Armor (which really isn't descriptive of the upgrade at all) isn't needed to make mech IG work, not at all.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

JB wrote:Two things about the current Codex made Mech Infantry less than desirable:
1. The point cost of Chimeras
2. The requirement to buy every single guard infantry unit a Chimera if you choose the Mechanized doctrine
The combination of these two conditions made the list less fun and less competitive

So you're really just complaining about current competitiveness of Mech Guard, not playability or options? OK, but the new Chimeras won't be so much better, as Guard will now be paying 15 pts for Extra Armor to make Mech work.

I'm really not complaining at all. Just answering HBMC's question. I guess I should point out that I was originally fielding a 1000 point list and then a 1500 point list. Giving every single infantry unit (HQ, PL HQ, HWS, SWS, ST, and regular squads) a Chimera at 100 points each (multilaser, hull HF/HB, smoke, pintle HS) was crippling.

As for EA, I don't plan to take it at all. With eight Chimeras and two LRBT, I don't expect a crew stunned result to unhinge my tactics enough to warrant the 15 point cost. It might be different if I had a single (rubber) hammer IG squad in a lone Chimera to try to seize/contest objectives.