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That was quite an arrogant statement. I would live to see you say that to their faces.

G

G/L against that guard army...

Hulksmash wrote:No offense GBF but you seem to play against some fairly unintellegent people in your area. Based on you "battle-reports" people in your area really don't seem to know how to play the game but hey, it makes your list look good

Sorry But I have to agree with this based on the last few Bat Reps you posted.

It's the internet and from what I've determined your somewhere in florida (a continent away from me). Though look on the bright side. If you get a hurricane then i'll be in the area and we can get a game in.

I was just letting you know based the facts you've reported you have yet to play a competent opponent but do crow the greatness of the list. Just my two cents.

I am just reporting the batreps as requested. I haven't said any of my opponents are veteran gamers. The purpose of the battles is to playtest the army - that is all. I am sure when I eventually take the army to a few tournaments I'll probably come up against some tough competition.

I am curious what you would have done differently if you had been playing the same exact Nidz list. Nidz are just not that great when it comes to cracking AV14. He got into assaults but the 3+ storm shield save nerfed the rending attacks from the genestealers.

G

Well, I also think your opponent made a lot of mistakes, but he might have just been caught off guard. For starters, it seems like he wasted a ton of genestealers isntead of wating for the Zoanthropes to crack one of the LRS. And depending on where your Rhinos were, I don't see why he focused no attention on them at all, especially with the Stealers. I still think the list has potential. I'd like to see how you'd do with Tigurius.

I kept the rhinos behind the big tanks the first few turns. They were well hidden from the Zoaps and gunfexes. Towards the end I had to charge in the tactical Marines to support the HQ and dwindling termies.

The genestealers had to assault as that is all they are good for... Until they could assault they were simply bolter fodder. They did okay in assault but there was not enough of them left to swing the tide. I did make a game of it by charging out though. The Zoaps just had some bad shooting versus AV14 which really is not that surprising to me. Carnifexen could only shoot the LRCs and can only glance at best... He tried to assault the LRCs and then they were assaulted by thunder hammers.

If someone is simply going to say that my opponents suck arse and say this is okay because it is the Internet but not offer any tactical support to their argument I am going to tend to ignore what they have to say as it just comes across as bitterness really. That's my 2c.

G

Part of my statement about that guy not being a veteran gamer is precisely because of the list he fielded.

But in his situation my genestealers would have been behind the carnifex's to help with cover saves. I'd have made you come to me while attempting to immobilize your LRC's with the venom cannons. That would give me 2 turns of shooting before the zoap's or you had range since you whole army only has a 24" range and my range with the big guns is much longer you'd have to come to me. I sure as hell wouldn't have moved toward you and given you shots against my genestealers

That is just the general strategy I'd use since i don't know the terrain or the way you set up or moved but the main thing is that your opponent brought a non competetive list.

I read about 2/3 of this thread, so maybe this issue already came up:

calgar is from the ultramarines, lysander is imperial fists. It really annoyed me reading the SM codex that gw didn't make more of an effort to highlight that fact, or at least make a rule allowing you to use only one special character per list.

SM players (maybe this guy too) will probably even paint them the same colour. It's really repulsive if you enjoy the atmosphere of fighting in the 40k universe which is usually quite rich and coherent.

@ Hulksmash

It's obvious you did not closely read the batrep as I did move my army towards him and he did try his best to take out my LRCs as soon as he had the chance.

This Nid list was copied exactly from one that made it to the Ard Boyz finals last year. Do yourself a favor and stop beating yourself up over this.

G

First off he moved closer to you and actually ran his big bugs at you.

Second how did his zoaps start that close in Dawn of war, they should have been coming in off his table edge.

And as for 'Ard Boyz I'm not really that impressed with most ard boy builds since what works at 2500 doesn't at 1850-2000 and the list you posted is a very, very weak lower level tourney list.

You spent a long time thinking how to respond.

G

Vaul wrote:I read about 2/3 of this thread, so maybe this issue already came up:

calgar is from the ultramarines, lysander is imperial fists. It really annoyed me reading the SM codex that gw didn't make more of an effort to highlight that fact, or at least make a rule allowing you to use only one special character per list.

SM players (maybe this guy too) will probably even paint them the same colour. It's really repulsive if you enjoy the atmosphere of fighting in the 40k universe which is usually quite rich and coherent.

There are plenty of reasons why Marneus and Lysander would fight side by side. On top of that, it specifically says in the codex that every single character can and SHOULD be used as a 'counts as' for a build your own chapter. And finally, this is a power build, not a fluffy build. Who cares what is being run?

Why would not Marneus and Darnath not fight together? They obviously compliment each other... Both attack typically at I1, have the EW rule and come with 4W apiece.

Something that a lot of people overlook in regards to Marneus is that he also has a power sword that rerolls failed wounds... basically a pair of lightning claws. I have used the sword often enough when he is solo versus a warboss on a bike that has lost a wound or two. I will put his rerollable sword up against a lot of enemy HQs any day of the week.

This list was specifically designed to beat down nob bikers and it can do it on a consistent basis. It is not a fluff list by any stretch of the imagination nor have I ever billed to be as such really.

I personally love a fluffy list that can win but in a competitive environment you have to load up if you want to walk away with the W against lists such as lash spam and nob bikers. This is specifically what this list is designed to do and nothing else.

G

Looks like I will have a shot at either IG or lash spam tonight.

G

If you are going to switch one squad of termies to a shooty then stick them with lysander for the bolter drill. Plus then the shooty squad has at least one storm shield from lysander for the better invuln save.


Ive used a similiar list at 1500. Only one raider, but 2 troops got razorbacks with twin las. Annihilation scenarioes are an issue, but actually does nicely in objectives becuase the eternal warriors are VERY hard to kill.

Just looking at the list I have to ask some questions?

Why Marneus and Lysander??? Is it really just because Marneus can't be oblited and Lysander is ok in hth???

Your spending 400 points on thunder hammer termies, why no vulkan??? He makes the list much more punchy.

Also, why the land raider crusaders? Why not an something like a redeemer? The only reason to use LRCs is the cargo room.

Finally, I think a librarian would go a long way in this list. The hood would give you some protection from lash and the re roll invulnerable saves helps against armies like daemons.

Pete

Lysander and Marneus are both Eternal Warrior, which is extremely important when you're matching them up against T5(6) Ork Warbosses with str10 powerklaws because the boss can't just squish them before they get a chance to fight back.

Vulkan is not in the list because he dies to a str8 weapon in one shot, which is not durable enough by any stretch. He would increase the effectiveness of the hammers greatly, but he'll also die fast and his cc ability is mediocre at best.

LRCs... the Hurricane Bolters are defensive weapons, so you get the max amount of shots while on the move from the LRC as opposed to the other options. This is important because its constant pressure on opposing units. Redeemer is tough because you basically ahve to park it on top of an opposing unit to use the template, and even then it can only fire 1-2 weapons max when it moves (and good luck lining up both template weapons in 1 shooting phase due to the size of the LR and placement of the weapons around the hull). Normal LRs give Lascannons for more help with big/high AV targets which is very nice, but they come at the expense of much needed anti-horde firepower.

I still really like the Tigerius idea, though its tough to call since Tiggy can be punked in one shot. The versatility he brings to the army could very well outweigh the relative weakness to high str weapons though.

Ummm... Eternal warrior is great and all but we're talking about Vulkan giving you 5 more Thunder hammer HITS per turn. Plus Vulkan is not a wet sock. He does have a 3+I save which gives you a fighting changes. Plus the relic weapon (hitting at Inititative) and hvy flamer is a perfectly fine config to deal with the rest of the Ork army. IF you don't want to sacrifice him, leave him in the LR... Same with Tiggy. He works just as well in the landraider than outside and helps deal with armies other than nob bikers.

10 re rolling storm shield / thunder hammer termy squads with the charge from the landraider are going to beat the bikes by themselves.

Seriously, this list is supposed to be for most wins not most win against nob bikers right?

Put my list with Vulkan and Tiggy up against this one with Marneus and lysander and you'll see mine wins everything. The combo of re rolling thunder hammers and you having to re roll successful Invulnerable saves swing the pendulum way in my direction....

It's not like Marneus and lysander have a ton of wounds. I see the strength of the combo, I just have a tough time believing it's the strongest build.

Pete

remember that marneus and darnath hit on 3+ and marneus rerolls wounds. Darnath is an absolute necessity since he insta kills the warbosses.

Flamers are right nexy to worthless against nob bikes since they still get two saves.

We're not saying the curent list is best. If you read the thread (seems like you didn't) you'd notice that Tiggy will be playtested at some point. I think Vulkan was mentioned at some point as well, however its obviously easier to guage the effect of changes by making them one at a time.

Personally, I like Vulkan a lot. He's my favorite character in the SM book and I'd be inclined to play him. He's just so squishy in comparison to Eternal Warrior. Leaving him in the LR makes it basically 195pts to mastercraft 10 Thunder Hammers, I'm pretty sure thats not worth it.

Honestly I think Lysander is necessary for that str10, which does make a huge difference. Marneus can go though, we've established that and are more than willing to playtest other options (right now Tiggy or maybe a normal Epistolary Librarian is the main focus of that).

Since this thread is back up top...

GBF. You still in love with LRCs?

I just keep moving 12" over and over, every time I play. There seems to always be a melta-bomb sarge, a rending bloodcrusher or a shoota boy unit within 12" of where I want to be. And I'm the defenition of a conservative player, especially when I play low model count armies.

I suppose when get that matchup where there are no close combat threats to the LRC then you get that sweet 6" move with all the bullets going one way and POMS multi-melta picking a different target. That is actually pretty respectable shooting from any vehicle.

Basically, have you thrown the redeemeer in yet? If not, just keep track of how many times you go 12" and have more than one unit within 8".

My thunder hammer list has been running godhammers. It is primarily because I run two vindicators that I don't need the horde thinning. But the standard LR is still an awesome choice if you want more transport take-down. One lascannon all the time, and two at different targets when you slow down a bit is sweet.

Great list. lots of 'advice' on how to improve this list...

My advice on how to beat this list - go for the rhinos 1st turn to stop & possibly kill those tac-squads & let those I1 Termies (&I4 God of war dude) come to you.

Any chance of adding a small scout squad in there som-where - or are the points really that tight?

If I was playing nob bikes versus vindis I would combo the chinese fire drill plus turbo boost. One turn shooting max with minimal number under template then power klaw to AV10. That is an equation for disaster.

I chose LRC for many reasons. One template that needs PotMS and brings the vehicle into charge range is not my style but maybe milaege varies for other Rambos out there.

G

There are no spare points. The list comes out to exactly 1850 points.

G

Yes. Thanks. I did read the whole thread. I'm actually agreeing with the Tiggy option suggested earlier in the thread.

And while I see you your point on the S10 obliting the warboss, I think there are better configurations.

Consider this. Hitting on a 4+ re rollable is better than hitting on a 3+. And taking damage against a termi with a 3+i is cheaper taking damage against a special character with a 3+i.

I'm saying keep the characters out of hth. If you really want to optimize the list take vulkan and drop one of the special characters and buy 5 more termies.

For the same points you could have 15 termies with re rolling thunder hammers, which is far superior to the current build mentioned.

Or... Alternatively take a librarian, as the librarian really helps you deal with other top tier lists (ie, fate weaver blood crushers, dual lash, or other termi hvy SM builds).

As for my other point. When I say leave the character in the tank. I'm not saying waste the character. send him off to deal with other parts of the Ork list, for example with a tac squad in a rhino.

Pete

Vulkan and more termies is a good idea. I will try it tonight. Thanks for the tip.

G

I just playtested AGAINST this list, the funny thing is, my battle report is SO like one of GBF's its surreal.

My Lash army vs this list....I'll just give a rundown of what happened.

Kill point mission, 12" deployment. He chooses to go first and chooses table side. Sets up on the line in order to get to me fast.

I steal Initiative.

TURN 1

Oblits pop loaded LR Crusader...no terminators die.

HIS TURN 1

Everything rolls forward Crusader and Rhino's all pop smoke. Marneus joins squad on other Crusader.

TURN 2

During movement make sure nothing of mine is beyond 6" from my board edge

Oblits unleash on LR Crusader...Immobilised.

HIS TURN 2

Terminators Marneus and Lysander begin the long walk toward my army, still about 12" away from my lines....Rhino's come forward another 12" blocking line of sight to terminators as best they can. Pop hatches and take meltagun shots at Oblits...I make my invulnerable save after a single hit.

TURN 3

One Daemon Prince moves for line of sight on Superfails. Oblits stomp toward rhino's.

Oblits all easily Melta Rhino's wrecking one, exploding the other. Wrecked rhino's has marines deploy on other side trying to hide. Lash one unit of marines (the ones from the exploded rhino) closer to Oblits....6 oblits charge (these oblits annihilated the X-port). I get lucky and roll all 5's and 6's to hit with fists. All marines die, but not before the sargeant manages to power sword 1 Oblit for 1 wound.

Daemon prince lashes Superfails 12" back toward Immobile LR.

HIS TURN 3

Moves tactical squad around wrecked rhino to engage Oblits, Superfails move forward 6" run 4". Other terminators now across the feild.

Tacticals rapid fire oblits killing 1...my opponent forgets that he cannot charge after rapid firing.

So far I've lost only 1 oblit and 1 wounded....my army must be awesome! If you argue this I'll get mad and defend it while throwing cliche' comebacks at you.

TURN 4

Lash Superfails back again...they're still hanging back by the immobilised LR that my opponent in his frustration keeps forgetting to shoot. Lash the other unit of terminators back.

Oblits plasma cannon all tacticals into next week.

So far 5 kill points earned...he has none.

HIS TURN 4

Superfails move/run forward 9". Other terminators 7". He remembers his LR and fires melta's hurricane bolters and Assault cannon into Oblits with 2 guys. I take one wound thanx to cover saves.

MY TURN 5

Oblits Lascannon the Crusader...wrecking it.

Lash Superfails and other terminator squad back 6"....twice.

HIS TURN 5

Superfails and Terminators both move forward 10", he tells me I'm a coward for not charging them. My soda goes down the wrong pipe as a result.


Roll for game continuance....game stops.

My opponent starts flailing on the ground as if having a seizure.

After I stop laughing at my 6-0 Kill point game I realise that I forgot to deploy the rest of my army. I only played with two lash princes and 9 oblits.


My lash army must be awesome...playtesting it against a sister army tomorrow based on Repentia, and archo-flagellents.

My revised "Lash Power list"(designed to win as many tournement games as possible)

two princes with lash

9 oblits

Who cares what else.

Oh, I forgot, we go get wasted drinking beer after the fun game...Yahoo!

That made my night