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I remain unconvinced of Calgar + 5 Assault Terminators.

For example, Cassius + 7 Assault Terminators (405pts). In assault you get 21 TH attacks + 4 PW (all with re-roll to hit) hits from Cassius vs 15 TH + 5 PF attacks from Calgar's, and only Calgar's has re-roll and it's to-wound with S8. So Cassius' will hit harder, as long as he doesn't lose 2 models. Calgar's can't suck up wounds forever either.

Same ammount of wounds but with more models at 2+/3++ and Cassius is T6 so there goes Eternal Warrior against PK Boss. Granted, Calgar will save you from more of those hits.

So are those 45 extra points worth it? The Gauntlets? (you're losing God of War with Lysander). I personally don't think so.

Hell, even with a regular Chaplain you save 70 points in exchange for the S8+ wound buffer (you'll still hit harder). 70Pts is what a MM/HF Speeder costs.

Beerfart hahahahaha awesome report, just awesome.

EDIT: You lost 1.5 Oblits... your army sucks!!!!!

My sergeants have power fists.

G

Got in a game versus lash spam... Will post batrep tomorrow... Tough game!

G

We can't wait.

Green Blow Fly wrote:If I was playing nob bikes versus vindis I would combo the chinese fire drill plus turbo boost. One turn shooting max with minimal number under template then power klaw to AV10. That is an equation for disaster.

I chose LRC for many reasons. One template that needs PotMS and brings the vehicle into charge range is not my style but maybe milaege varies for other Rambos out there.

G

was this for me?

I can assume it was since you are talking about vindicators. My list is having NO problems beating nob bikers, either when they charge the land raiders or when they charge the vindis. But I was talking about your choice of land raider, not nob bikers...

As to your "being in charge range" comment. You are going to be in charge range against nob bikers period. Who cares if you are in charge range if you moved cruising speed? Let people charge you and need 6s to hit. Its an assault vehicle. Are you hanging back and firing bolters? Really?

I'm trying to be constructive here and open discussion with you about this list. But you are so dismissive of things you don't want to hear, I'm done with this thread... your list needs serious work... and you just aren't interested in discussing it.

I was pointing out why I don't consider vindis that big a threat to nob bikers. Even if they do hit on 6+ with 4-6 power klaws per squad they will probably still wax the tanks.

G

Hey Beerfart I was wondering if you would be up for a game on Vassal. You seem to think you are good.

G

okay so finally a rematch versus lash prince. Same opponent as the last time and he is looking to get his revenge finally. His list:

2x Lash Prince/wings
3x 3x Oblit
4x 6x PM/2x melta, fist - rhino

Mission was kill points again with the split table setup. I won the roll to go first and setup with my rhinos rolling in behind the LRCs and crowding his DZ. My opponent sets up like a puss hugging his table edge.

First turn the LRCs both roll into his line with all termies disembarking along with HQ. Two of three Oblit units and one lash prince can be combi charged. PotMS on donkey cannons vap the other prince.

TBC

G

Like I said, you need a librarian or the SM list is not competitive with armies like lash, daemons etc.

Also Vulkan would have likely been with the tac marines and would have done some good damage to the oblits.

Pete

Green Blow Fly wrote:okay so finally a rematch versus lash prince. Same opponent as the last time and he is looking to get his revenge finally. His list:

2x Lash Prince/wings
3x 3x Oblit
4x 6x PM/2x melta, fist - rhino

Mission was kill points again with the split table setup. I won the roll to go first and setup with my rhinos rolling in behind the LRCs and crowding his DZ. My opponent sets up like a puss hugging his table edge.

First turn the LRCs both roll into his line with all termies disembarking along with HQ. Two of three Oblit units and one lash prince can be combi charged. PotMS on donkey cannons vap the other prince.

TBC

G

Your pants are on fire sir. At least 24 inches in between you and your enemy for pitched battle Land raider moves 12, get out 2, assault 6 thats 20 inches. How you assaulting him first turn unless he moved up especially if you say he is hugging his edge there would be more than 24 inches.

Green Blow Fly wrote:okay so finally a rematch versus lash prince. Same opponent as the last time and he is looking to get his revenge finally. His list:

2x Lash Prince/wings
3x 3x Oblit
4x 6x PM/2x melta, fist - rhino

Mission was kill points again with the split table setup. I won the roll to go first and setup with my rhinos rolling in behind the LRCs and crowding his DZ. My opponent sets up like a puss hugging his table edge.

First turn the LRCs both roll into his line with all termies disembarking along with HQ. Two of three Oblit units and one lash prince can be combi charged. PotMS on donkey cannons vap the other prince.

TBC

G

I think he means split table is -> dawn of war, with 18 inches in between
And "donkey cannons" is some way of saying "assault cannons"

However in dawn of war, you set up a max of 18 inches away from your opponent if you won the roll to go first (at the 50 yard line essentially) and you only set up 1 hq and 2 troops. That means 0 LRC's start on the board, and will have to trundle across the entire board, if he's on his edge, in order to do what you said. Also, if it is dawn of war, he'd only have 1 DP and 2 troop selections on the board, not his oblits or anything else, until they walk on in his turn.

Unless of course split table meant pitched battle, in that case, Avariel called you out correctly in saying that you couldn't possibly achieve a first turn charge on turn 1 from land raiders in the pitched battle scenario.

And 2 "Donkey cannons" killing 1 prince?

Here's the math on 2 assault cannons versus 1 prince:

8 shots, 6 hit, 7 after twin linked.

7 Hits, 4 wounds, 1 of which is probably a rend.

The rend causes .667 wounds (he gets his 5+ save)
The other 3 wounds he gets a 3+ save on, taking 1

Total wounds from two twinlinked assault cannons = 1.667, or realistically, 1-2 wounds.

Beerfart wrote a better batrep, more realistic too

There were forward members of units in the first rank off the table edge. One of the princes could not table hug where he deployed. I forced him to pick the side with some impassable terrain along some of the edge. I should have said hugging the table as much as possible... of course the haters will just keep hating.

G

Avariel wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:okay so finally a rematch versus lash prince. Same opponent as the last time and he is looking to get his revenge finally. His list:

2x Lash Prince/wings
3x 3x Oblit
4x 6x PM/2x melta, fist - rhino

Mission was kill points again with the split table setup. I won the roll to go first and setup with my rhinos rolling in behind the LRCs and crowding his DZ. My opponent sets up like a puss hugging his table edge.

First turn the LRCs both roll into his line with all termies disembarking along with HQ. Two of three Oblit units and one lash prince can be combi charged. PotMS on donkey cannons vap the other prince.

TBC

G

Your pants are on fire sir. At least 24 inches in between you and your enemy for pitched battle Land raider moves 12, get out 2, assault 6 thats 20 inches. How you assaulting him first turn unless he moved up especially if you say he is hugging his edge there would be more than 24 inches.

But regardless its impossible for you to ever be closer than 24 inches to him in pitched battle, or 18 inches in dawn of war

24 inches is too far for a LRC assault.

18 inches in this scenario your LRC's can't start on the board and trundle on from 42 inches away.

Space marines cannot, ever, ever, perform a first turn charge unless they use some oddity with shrike I'm not thinking of or your opponent sets up infiltrators closer to you somehow.

Edit: And liars will keep on lying.

Dang you really are a dim wit. Some of his units had models in my charge arc.

G

Thats impossible, for the above regions.

You went first. He hasn't moved yet. He has to, by the rules be AT LEAST 18 inches away in dawn of war (making it impossible for your LRC's to even be on the board) or AT LEAST 24 inches away.

With every, every model. Nothing of his army, is within 24 inches, of your army. Its an impossibility, unless you cheated and set up to close, or did what we here call a "stewie shuffle" where you move the LRC front to back, gaining an extra tank length on your move (also illegal).

There is no legal way, none, zero, zilch, any one of his models was closer than 24 inches to you at the start of your turn.

LRC moves MAXIMUM 12 inches. Then the terminators get out within TWO INCHES of the transport and have a SIX inch charge range.

12 + 2 + 6 = 20.

You're 4 inches short.

So take your pick: You're a cheater, or You're a liar.

I'll also accept C: All of the above.

Nice insult though, backpedaling after you make up yet another batrep and then insulting people who call you on it.

But no, I'm the dimwit, I know, my apologies.

Everyones knows that targetawg is a flunky of Stelek. Time to hit the IGNORE button again.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Everyones knows that targetawg is a flunky of Stelek. Time to hit the IGNORE button again.

G

1) I've never met stelek in my life.
2) I've been in like...2 threads involving him, and only a member of Dakka for a few months.
3) He lives somewhere in the Mid-west or west coast I think. I'm in eastern Pennsylvania.
4) Instead of acknowledging that you're a GBL (great big liar) you just ignore.

This calls for a roflcopter...

lol all this Stelek crap... he's gone and it won't go away. Seems like a supremely stupid bit of babbling to me.

Also, targetawg is right on this one I think, there isn't any way those LRCs could make it across the board like that for a turn 1 charge. I would be more than happy to admit I'm wrong if you can disprove this.

I like this list idea and I want it to work, thats why I keep posting in this thread. I'm still a bit skeptical, but I see potential in the basic design of the list.

I will read the rulebook tonight and see if we made any mistakes in the deployment.

G

Caffran

Here is the answer from Clay Williams, a judge for GW GTs:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/227292.page#519759

The deployment was completely legal. Either targetawg is very confused or he trying his best to mislead people in this thread. That is my 2c.

G

This whole thread is an April fools joke in January. Don't take it seriously.

Dawn of War, the deployment type that splits the table in half, only allows you to start with 1 HQ choice and 2 Troops Choices.

This being the case, your terminators, your landraiders and one of your HQ choices could not be deployed at the beginning of the game, they would have had to come on from reserve and been on the other side of the table.

So you (and your opponent if one did indeed exist) both deployed illegally.

So actually targetawg is spot on and you are tying to mislead people.

Read the rules. Its all there in the book. It seems that you make a big mistake like this all to often.

We did not play DoW. If we had I would have started everything in reserve and moved on turn 1. It pays to know your trigonometry!

G

Haha, pretending you know things...good one.

Its like pretending you know the 3 deployment types. That ones cracks me up.

Looks like your either a liar or a cheat or both!

Time to hit the ignore button!

1) How about helping us out to tell us what you did play.
2) The thread you linked, people are telling you you're wrong and it was illegal.

You said not DOW, so I'm assuming when you said split table, you meant pitched battle.

That still presents the 24 inch problem.

Now if somehow you're saying you did spearhead now...

Trigometry wouldn't matter, as you stated he deployed against his table edge.

But if it did.

The center of the table is your point. 12 inches from it horizontally and verticcally represents the extent of the "bubble" in the center of the table you can't deploy in. This is a right triangle.

A right triangle goes with your good friend, the pythagorean theorem, a2+b2=c2

Meaning 12 squared, plus 12 squared, equals the length of the hypotenuse squared (this is the shorted possible distance in between the two of you).

c in this instance, equals 17.

However, this is 17 inches point to point. There is no possible way to fit a land raider (or even a standard base) with its edge exactly on that point, due to the 90 degree angle formed by the bubble/the halfway line of the board.

Of course, this is all a moot point, as you stated he deployed on his table edge "like a puss" (you're incredibly charming). In order for this to work he would have had to a model at the closest point towards you, the absolute closest, as the land raiders width pushes him backwards roughly 2-3 inches from this 17 inch line, and your MAXIMUM range is 20 inches.

This would also make a multiple assault as you stated against 3 units (two oblit units and a daemon prince) completely ludicrous as well, as theres no way you could have range.

You done yet?

Actually the closest you can get in Spearhead deployment is ~17 inches.

If a model with a one inch base is placed directly on the table edge at the short center line and an opposing model is placed along the long center line 12" away from the center point then this is still only 25" of space.

Granted that this was the scenario it is quite possible that Green was able to assault first turn given his opponent did not have every model directly touching the table edge.

It is possible to get into assault on the first turn in spearhead.

*edit - beat to it

*edit again - there is no min distance that models have to be apart in Spearhead deployment.

His opponent would have not only had to not have all of his models not touching his table edge, he'd have to have them at he EXACT closest point to GBF.

The exact. closest. point.

Also, a multi assault is completely impossible, for the above reasons.

I wont get into the semantics of the discussion. I am only trying to help by providing facts.

Thanks Clay. I really appreciate your posting here.

Like I said Clay is an official judge for the GW GT circuit and has years of experience under his belt.

G