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DarkHound wrote:Yes, but the fact remains that the Laspred is the best source of Lascannons in Codex CSM.

It's debateable whether lascannons are worth it with that sort of price tag.

I used a las pred on the weekend, and whilst it was good (until it got melta'd by stormtroopers), it really struggled to get more than a couple of shaken results on the AV14 front of a LR. My infiltrating Melta Chosen squad tore them up tho.

I have a much smaller game coming up, and shall be trialing a couple of Oblits (cos I havent had them out for a while), and on the basis of whats been discussed here. For lower points, I want more 'generalist' models, and Oblits are great all rounders!

I wouldn't recommend using anything but Melta's on AV14, but we have so much of that available. The moral of that story I guess is know your target. Like I said before, Lascannons chew up transports at a range Melta weapons can't. That range makes all the difference; the sooner you kill the transport, the more exposed his infantry are and the longer it'll take them to reach their objective.

One idea is a Havoc Squad with two Lascannons to fire out of the top hatch of a Rhino, and then two Melta to hit incoming Land Raiders and to go hunting heavy tanks, and two combi-meltas (one on the Aspiring Champion and one on the Rhino).

With that loadout you're bordering on the cost of 3 Oblits with less firepower.

sourclams:

Actually it's ten points more than a full squad of Obliterators if the Havoc squad is run at bare minimum numbers.

In raw number the Obliterators get one more Lascannon, and about the same number of Melta Guns. I'd factor in the value of the Rhino as transport, cover, vehicle spam, and so on, as well as the close combat abilities of the Havocs themselves.

If you're counting on a by-model basis, you get twice as many models for your points...

Can't say I agree with that havoc setup. Obliterators ARE very good, and the only way Havocs should be used over them is is if they are cheaper.

The lascannons on the havocs are a joke. 50 Points each, with the upgrade being nearly twice as expensive as missles/autocannons. 25 points more you get a TEQ with nearly every gun and deepstriking.

I wouldnt take havocs unless I used autocannons, missles, and in the rare, rare case where you know you are playing orks/nids and you know theyre footslogging, heavy bolters.

Looking at it now, I realize that these are 3 guns that the oblits simply dont have.

Autocannons - Damage vehicles up to AV13 better than anything the oblits have outside of 12". Have the range and shots to take down those lootas in cover. Is anti-horde as well, causing less than one less wound than heavy bolters.

Missles - Strg 8, or blast template. Oblits can do it better with lascannons (Strg 9) and plasma cannons (ap2), but theyre also twice as expensive. You get two missles havocs for 1 oblit. Can still take down vehicles, and can still take down horde. Not a bad pick (though Id never run them over missles personally).

Heavy Bolters - Simply the most shots you can get with a single unit, and S5, Ap4 isnt too bad either. Have a very niche role (footslogging orks, eldar banshees, and so on). Rarely used though.

Personally, my favorite HS choices are Vindicator, Oblits, and Land Raider. Las Preds are good for ranged anti-armour work, but you have to sit still, which can be a death sentence. I don't care much for Havocs, and the Defiler is tricky at best.

DarkHound wrote:If you have a Predator with Lascannons, it shouldn't be shooitng at infantry unless there is literally no other target.

It is personal preference. I agree, if you need more mech, that 35 points is too much to spend on pushing the Predator's anti-tank over the edge. However, my list has far too little long ranged firepower (without the Predator) and a third of my bodies coming down through Deepstrike. I need less Rhinos for my army to be effectively mechanized. I can't carve out the points for a second Predator, but those extra 35 points make the one Predator I do have vastly more effective.

Besides, having all Lascannons makes it easier for you to take on things you "shouldn't." Obviously Lascannons aren't the best choice for killing AV13+, but can do the job. If you need that side-exposed Leman Russ dead, and your Oblits have yet to come down, you'll be glad you payed for the Lascannon over that Autocannon.

Is it over-priced, especially when you compare it to other codicies scaling? Yes, but the fact remains that the Laspred is the best source of Lascannons in Codex CSM.

Yeah i ran out of Targets :( although in a way thats a good sign...

I can see how Trilas fits into your army much better than mine... fielding a squad of havocs (shoot me i know) and a pred give me a shooty hold the ground unit and a shooty can go hunt unit. And totally agreed, its overpriced especially against other codicies, but it is the best source of lascannon we've got atm. Its a great support unit and i've gotten my points worth out of every game i've fielded it

i would use a land raider and 3 oblits. oblits could stand behind the land raider

I use Oblits and a Havoc squad. The Havocs pack 2 HB and 2 AC and make a great anti-infantry squad or light vehicle killers. The versatility of the Oblits lets me do whatever my opponents list dictates. I like the Havocs even though they are not the most points efficient, on more than a few occasions they have counter-charged (with 3 attacks each on the charge) to clear my home objective. When it comes down to it, the Havocs are still Chaos Marines and can hold thier own. Great thread!