Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'd be more curious to see what you feel "GT that includes drinking" means. I've never been to any that really encourage drinking, so I'm not sure how prevelent the practice is.

That said, if a person politely requests that you stop a behavior, I don't see how that's incredibly disrespectiful.

Let me at least offer a scenario. What if it's a GT that allows BYOB, but not a lot of people are drinking, and you're opponent says "Hey, just so you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I'd prefer it if you didn't drink."

Would that be disrespectful to you?

I'd also point out that doing things for other that rules don't allow is part of gentlemanly behavior. Going without a drink for a round might suck, but showing active respect for an opponent is simply good behavior.

Whenever I'm out with somebody, I always ask if they'd mind if I had a drink before I order one. That's how I'd approach 40k drinking: I'd ask if they minded me drinking, and if they don't, I'd offer a round.

wileythenord wrote:So does drinking a few drinks turn someone into a drunkard?

Even if they claim they don't feel it, even a few drinks can alter someone's state of mind and turn them into ass-hats. Everyone's body reacts differently to drugs of course, but just because you THINK it's not effecting you doesn't mean it isn't.

I don't know these random strangers at a tournament, and I don't trust them sober. I especially don't trust them drunk.

wileythenord wrote:So does drinking a few drinks turn someone into a drunkard?

Personally I can drink quite a few drinks before I even become "buzzed". So at a tournament unless I've had more than 4 drinks in the past 1 hr you probably wouldn't even notice.

Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:Are people forcing you to not drink? Then shut up about force. If you have the right to drink, then somebody else has the right to ask you not to. So, it sounds like you want people to respect your right to free choice while not respecting the right of others to make a request.

In other words, people have to deal with your drinking, but you don't like dealing with people's feelings on the matter.

That's right. If you show up across the table from me at a GT that includes drinking, and I've got a cup of booze in front of me, and you say "Please don't drink during our game" I'm going to respond with "Please don't open your mouth again." If you or someone else is not emotionally stable enough to be in the presence of an adult having a drink (do not confuse this with being blitzed) because of personal issues involving alcohol, then you should have stayed home.

Doesn't requiring alcohol to enjoy oneself at an event constitute a "personal issue involving alcohol" making the inverse also true?

From what I am seeing in this thread, people just have personal problems with drinking, regardless of the person doing it. Which is fine, but if you find yourself at an event that allows drinking, you shouldn't get upset if your opponent has had a few drinks.

At Adepticon 2010 I pretty much had a drink in my hand from 11 am until they closed down the hall. And never during any of my games did an argument arise, I had one guy complain because my Dark Eldar was killing his plague marines and he didn't like Dark Lance spam....but that had nothing to do with the drinking.

I have also never had anyone tell me that drinking turned me into an "ass-hat" or that I seemed to have some sort of "altered state of mind". If the person you are playing is belligerent, then you probably have a good case to stand on, but if the dude is just sipping a jack and coke and surveying the battlefield, you don't have much that can be said.

All of this is assuming the tournament you are playing at allows drinking. If it doesn't then you shouldn't be drinking at the tournament, even if its concealed, that is lame.

Frazzled wrote:Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

I most definately weigh 300 lbs, thanks for noticing!

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:Are people forcing you to not drink? Then shut up about force. If you have the right to drink, then somebody else has the right to ask you not to. So, it sounds like you want people to respect your right to free choice while not respecting the right of others to make a request.

In other words, people have to deal with your drinking, but you don't like dealing with people's feelings on the matter.

That's right. If you show up across the table from me at a GT that includes drinking, and I've got a cup of booze in front of me, and you say "Please don't drink during our game" I'm going to respond with "Please don't open your mouth again."

-One's a request.
-Your reply is much more along what I'd expect from a drunk actually and would end the game right there. You just put it into a threat situation.

So it seems like it comes down to two things:

Does the venue allow alcohol?

Does the TO allow Alcohol at the event?

If the answer to both of these is YES - then people can and probably will drink. If you don't like that - then you should either not go - or go with caution - because the other people have the OK to have a brew.

If the answer to either of these is a NO - then you shouldn't drink. If you don't want to game without drinking - don't go to this tournament - because it's NOT ok to have a brew. The expectation is that you are playing a sober person - and we as the tournament go'ers should respect that and conform - or not go.

Melissa - if drunk gamers come on to you - you must be a hot gamer chick! That's a rare and precious commodity in our little hobby world! HOO-HAH!

Frazzled wrote:

wileythenord wrote:So does drinking a few drinks turn someone into a drunkard?

Personally I can drink quite a few drinks before I even become "buzzed". So at a tournament unless I've had more than 4 drinks in the past 1 hr you probably wouldn't even notice.

Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

Tolerance for alcohol has lots of different factors. Not just body weight and/or "not a good sign" behavior. Weight, for that matter, has a lot of different factors. A person that has a beer/glass of wine/1 shot mixed drink each night when they get home from work, is by no means an alcoholic. They will, however, have a significant tolerance to alcohol as a result.

No it doesn't. Drunk people come on to everyone. It's called beer goggles.

wileythenord wrote:From what I am seeing in this thread, people just have personal problems with drinking, regardless of the person doing it. Which is fine, but if you find yourself at an event that allows drinking, you shouldn't get upset if your opponent has had a few drinks.

At Adepticon 2010 I pretty much had a drink in my hand from 11 am until they closed down the hall. And never during any of my games did an argument arise, I had one guy complain because my Dark Eldar was killing his plague marines and he didn't like Dark Lance spam....but that had nothing to do with the drinking.

I have also never had anyone tell me that drinking turned me into an "ass-hat" or that I seemed to have some sort of "altered state of mind". If the person you are playing is belligerent, then you probably have a good case to stand on, but if the dude is just sipping a jack and coke and surveying the battlefield, you don't have much that can be said.

All of this is assuming the tournament you are playing at allows drinking. If it doesn't then you shouldn't be drinking at the tournament, even if its concealed, that is lame.

Frazzled wrote:Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

I most definately weigh 300 lbs, thanks for noticing!

You are a dead sexy 300 pound gaming machine Wiley!

And you are a happy drunk....and are easier to beat when you are drunk.

Please drink more when we play.....

Well, being able to enjoy oneself without alcohol is never a great sign, generally.

I don't think that's the problem here though. What I think the problem actually is is a lack of empathy. Essentially Dash is saying "if the GT allows drinking, I have a right to drink." Which is a fine and true statement. However, and this is the big however, he feels that somebody asking him to not drink is a personal affront. What that shows is a lack of relation to the feelings of others, essentially placing his desire to drink and/or desire to not be told what to do ahead of the desires of another.

Now, all people put the desires of themselves ahead of others, all the time. But usually they at least note that another persons desires have value. Dash appears to not see that. Which is a lack of empathy (the abillity to relate to others' emotional state). It's consistent with at least some of the conflict that seems to surround him.

It's interesting, because if an event explicitly allows drinking, than a person has every right to respond to request no to drink with a polite "no offense, but I prefer to drink while I play." You can understand a persons feelings without agreeing with them.

wileythenord wrote:From what I am seeing in this thread, people just have personal problems with drinking, regardless of the person doing it. Which is fine, but if you find yourself at an event that allows drinking, you shouldn't get upset if your opponent has had a few drinks.

At Adepticon 2010 I pretty much had a drink in my hand from 11 am until they closed down the hall. And never during any of my games did an argument arise, I had one guy complain because my Dark Eldar was killing his plague marines and he didn't like Dark Lance spam....but that had nothing to do with the drinking.

I have also never had anyone tell me that drinking turned me into an "ass-hat" or that I seemed to have some sort of "altered state of mind". If the person you are playing is belligerent, then you probably have a good case to stand on, but if the dude is just sipping a jack and coke and surveying the battlefield, you don't have much that can be said.

All of this is assuming the tournament you are playing at allows drinking. If it doesn't then you shouldn't be drinking at the tournament, even if its concealed, that is lame.

Frazzled wrote:Unless you weigh 300 lbs, the fact you think that is not a good sign. If you weigh 300 lbs thats also not a good sign.

I most definately weigh 300 lbs, thanks for noticing!

No, if you bother to read the thread the antidrinking crowd are generally talking about drunks.
You started drinking at 11.00AM? Wow I don't stop drinking coffee until about 2.00PM. We would be an interesting combo:
Player A "What you're drinking whiskey at this hour?"
Player B "What you're drinking coffee at this hour?"

blink
blink
(players A and B break out the baileys)
mmm...

Melissia wrote:No it doesn't. Drunk people come on to everyone. It's called beer goggles.

Well...I was trying to be complimentary......just say you are - it's the internet.....

Frazzled wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:That's right. If you show up across the table from me at a GT that includes drinking, and I've got a cup of booze in front of me, and you say "Please don't drink during our game" I'm going to respond with "Please don't open your mouth again."

-One's a request.
-Your reply is much more along what I'd expect from a drunk actually and would end the game right there. You just put it into a threat situation.

Agreed. If someone politely requests that you don't drink, you have every right to politely decline. If you respond like Dash suggests or says that he would to a polite request, that automatically puts you in the wrong. If the venue and tourney allow it and the person asking is a donkeycave, then you can respond likewise in the fashion that Dash suggests.

ps. DCM? Are you still a mod Frazz?

This thread, and some of the arguments in it, utterly confuse me.

I'm no "prude" but I don't think drinking -- much less getting drunk -- really has a place in public outside of bars and restaurants or some traditional venue (such as tailgating parties). Well, maybe I am a prude in DoP's opinion. : insert shrugging orkmoticon :

I can't imagine taking alcohol to a tournament. I'll admit to being prejudiced here but my first thought upon seeing someone drinking -- especially liquor rather than beer -- at a tournament would be "wonder if he's an alcoholic." The next thought would be "weird, I thought alcoholics usually hide their problem." Again, I'm no expert on alcoholism -- those are really the first things that would occur to me.

I also haven't been to more than a couple of tournaments. No one was drinking there. Is this common, though?

Of course, being hung over from the night before is another matter.

Aldonis wrote:

Melissia wrote:No it doesn't. Drunk people come on to everyone. It's called beer goggles.

Well...I was trying to be complimentary......just say you are - it's the internet.....

And I'm being self-effacing, welcome to the internet

Polonius wrote:Let me at least offer a scenario. What if it's a GT that allows BYOB, but not a lot of people are drinking, and you're opponent says "Hey, just so you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I'd prefer it if you didn't drink."

Would that be disrespectful to you?

Polonius: I was an abused child. Two broken adoptions, many foster homes, and much worse. I can't watch movies where kids are being abused without going berzerk. Lets say that "A.I" is going to get shown at the local club for movie night, and I read a review that says it is about a robot that thinks it is a child. And gets abused.

Should I stay home and avoid the movie because I know I'll have an issue watching it? Or should I show up at the club and ask them to turn the movie off because I don't like it?

If a recovering alcoholic shows up at a tournament that advertises BYOB and doesn't have the self-discipline to contain his urges....then he shouldn't have come. And no, I'm not going to put my booze away. I'm going to tell him to pretend it is apple juice.

MMMMM tasty apple juice!

Manchu: At some irish tournaments with a bar, you would see a good few people with a pint or something beside them. Stronger stuff is not common.
I have rarely seen anyone really drunk though. Just a pint or two over the course of the day.

warboss wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:That's right. If you show up across the table from me at a GT that includes drinking, and I've got a cup of booze in front of me, and you say "Please don't drink during our game" I'm going to respond with "Please don't open your mouth again."

-One's a request.
-Your reply is much more along what I'd expect from a drunk actually and would end the game right there. You just put it into a threat situation.

Agreed. If someone politely requests that you don't drink, you have every right to politely decline. If you respond like Dash suggests or says that he would to a polite request, that automatically puts you in the wrong. If the venue and tourney allow it and the person asking is a donkeycave, then you can respond likewise in the fashion that Dash suggests.

ps. DCM? Are you still a mod Frazz?

Nope just a secretagentman.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:Let me at least offer a scenario. What if it's a GT that allows BYOB, but not a lot of people are drinking, and you're opponent says "Hey, just so you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I'd prefer it if you didn't drink."

Would that be disrespectful to you?

Polonius: I was an abused child. Two broken adoptions, many foster homes, and much worse. I can't watch movies where kids are being abused without going berzerk. Lets say that "A.I" is going to get shown at the local club for movie night, and I read a review that says it is about a robot that thinks it is a child. And gets abused.

Should I stay home and avoid the movie because I know I'll have an issue watching it? Or should I show up at the club and ask them to turn the movie off because I don't like it?

If a recovering alcoholic shows up at a tournament that advertises BYOB and doesn't have the self-discipline to contain his urges....then he shouldn't have come. And no, I'm not going to put my booze away. I'm going to tell him to pretend it is apple juice.

Interesting, you didn't answer my question. I asked if it would be disrespectful. In you example, I think if you gave your history, most people would change what they were watching. Maybe if it were new, or somebody needed to write a paper on it or something, but if they're just watching it because they want to watch something, I think most people would understand. Which seems to be what you're missing: most social enviroments actually want people to feel welcome, and have a good time. Sacrificing non-essentials to cater is something that friends, and just plain polite people, do all the time.

That's the crux of the matter: you are putting drinking ahead of making sure your opponent is comfortable, which whether you like it or not, says a lot about you as a person.

You also have a poor understanding of addiction recovery, as it's not really a matter of self discipline. There's behavior modification and whatnot, but rarely will pure willpower win over addiction.

In that example, I wasn't asking you to put your booze away either. I think you're perfectly in your rights to keep drinking. I just find it interesting that you'd be offended by a person even asking, yet you seem not to understand why a person would be uncomfortable with you drinking.

Polonius wrote:Which is a lack of empathy (the abillity to relate to others' emotional state). It's consistent with at least some of the conflict that seems to surround him.

You are correct, I do not empathize. The horrors of the first half of my life make the book, "A Boy Called It" seem like vacation. I've struggled and fought and overcome every step of the way. And if I can do it and HAVE done it, I have no sympathy for people who make mountains out of molehills. If someone has the brainpower to dedicate thought and feeling into being offended by someone doing ANYTHING in their presence that is not directly harmful, then I generally consider them inexperienced, naive to the world, and prissy.

Thin-skinned; that's the best descriptor to be honest. And since I *do* empathize so little with people who don't have bigger issues to worry about in their life....I'm feeling like this thread has turned into mostly a circle-jerk with an occassional differentiating voice (aside from me). I'll bow out.

Ah but Dash, almost no tournaments (with the exception of the one event they are holding in a pub up here in MN) advertise drinking. They don't have rules against it but none of them advertise drinking as allowed at an event. Example is A-Kon. Doesn't say it's going to allow, doesn't say it isn't going to. So if someone shows up and kindly asks you, with good reason, not to drink during a game why are they in the wrong?

Bear in mind I drink at any event that doesn't forbid it (since it's really the only time outside of major holidays that I drink). A few beers throughout the day (Like 2-4 over 12 hours, I'm a lightweight ) is fine. But if I have an opponent who is genuinely upset at the idea then cool, I'll pack it away and ask them if they wanna grab me a soda while we play. It's happened exactly once and oddly, i gots a soda out of it . In this case it's just like Polonius said. It's about empathy. I could say no, but why would I? It's a level of courtesy I'd expect out of others so I try to make sure I give it.

Just my two cents on it.

Good for you and all. But you ain't the only one that's had a hard life, and yours gives you no privileges to be rude to anyone else.

Polonius wrote:You also have a poor understanding of addiction recovery, as it's not really a matter of self discipline. There's behavior modification and whatnot, but rarely will pure willpower win over addiction.

Now you're actually starting to piss me off. You have no idea.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:Let me at least offer a scenario. What if it's a GT that allows BYOB, but not a lot of people are drinking, and you're opponent says "Hey, just so you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I'd prefer it if you didn't drink."

Would that be disrespectful to you?

Polonius: I was an abused child. Two broken adoptions, many foster homes, and much worse. I can't watch movies where kids are being abused without going berzerk. Lets say that "A.I" is going to get shown at the local club for movie night, and I read a review that says it is about a robot that thinks it is a child. And gets abused.

Should I stay home and avoid the movie because I know I'll have an issue watching it? Or should I show up at the club and ask them to turn the movie off because I don't like it?

If a recovering alcoholic shows up at a tournament that advertises BYOB and doesn't have the self-discipline to contain his urges....then he shouldn't have come. And no, I'm not going to put my booze away. I'm going to tell him to pretend it is apple juice.

Wait, when have you been to a tournament that advertised as 'BYOB?'

Da Boss wrote:Manchu: At some irish tournaments with a bar, you would see a good few people with a pint or something beside them. Stronger stuff is not common.
I have rarely seen anyone really drunk though. Just a pint or two over the course of the day.

I can't call foul on drinking pints at an Irish tournament when no one even gets drunk. Well, can't call foul on anyone being disrespectful that is.

The US is by and large a protestant and "post-protestant" country with a national prohibition law in our not-at-all-distant past. We have a ton of people who grew up with at least the unconscious propaganda (if not the explicit condemnation of many Baptists) that alcohol is a social evil -- I'm thinking DARE and Driver's Ed. here, folks, not just someone's particular church. A helpful rule of thumb is: when you're the only one who's upset, it's unlikely that it's everyone else that has the problem. Similarly, when you're the only one who's drinking, it's not necessarily because everyone else is a prude.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:You also have a poor understanding of addiction recovery, as it's not really a matter of self discipline. There's behavior modification and whatnot, but rarely will pure willpower win over addiction.

Now you're actually starting to piss me off. You have no idea.

For someone not trying to pick fights in this thread, you're doing a miserable job not looking like you're trying to pick fights.

Bunker wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

offering to buy someone a beer who isn't drinking one at a beer event is poor behavior....and shows a lack of respect.

There's nothing disrespectful about offering someone a beer, or a soda, or a coffee, or whatever their drink of choice, in fact it's downright generous. I don't think anyone is saying that.

The issue as I see it is that people have problem with the drunken/belligerent behavior often associated with drinking, which is a legitimate concern. Calling that bs is akin to sticking your head in the sand.

Having a couple beers during a game is fine, but what if I'm that person's 5th opponent for the day and they're on beer number 11+? Am I allowed to be concerned then? I think I am, you seem to think I have no right.


Also, on a side note, these poll options are stupid, and very black and white. According tot he OP, you're either in the camp where drinking is absolutely fine or it absolutely isn't, when a lot of the responses here seem to be in a grey area somewhere in the middle. Personally, I don't care if you're going to drink during our game, I only care if you're going to be a belligerent moron while you do it, and I reserve the right to ask for a different opponent if I get paired against your poor-judgement having ass in the event that the latter is true.

1. You dont like drinking
2. Your ok with a little drinking
3. your ok with a lot of drinking
4 your ok with drinking but mabey at lunch or after.

you said you didnt get the poll twice to I cleared it up for you, I was trying to be lightharted when I wrote it and thought it coverd the spectrum very well.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Polonius wrote:You also have a poor understanding of addiction recovery, as it's not really a matter of self discipline. There's behavior modification and whatnot, but rarely will pure willpower win over addiction.

Now you're actually starting to piss me off. You have no idea.

Why? Because he pointed out, rightly so, that you don't know much about addiction (at least from what you've posted)? Your posts on the subject were pretty offensive.

Also, by your reasoning, why should he care if he's pissing you off? Shouldn't you just deal with what he has to say as a by-product of you engaging in this discussion?

Melissia wrote:Good for you and all. But you ain't the only one that's had a hard life, and yours gives you no privileges to be rude to anyone else.

QFT.