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Life is also a game, only without save...

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Nah, Nurgle would stay.

And the Grey Knights are infinitely better at fighting Daemons than the Custodes are.

No. They aren't. Custodes are better in every respect, and are even harder to corrupt than GK are. When a GK (Alaric) recieved the collar of khorne, he lost his psychic shield, and became as resistant to corruption as any other space marine. The Custodes are always incorruptible, having spent 13,000 years by the Emperor's side. They also fight daemons literally every day, as the Portal Magnus destroy is an enormous warp-rift that is contained by 300 Custodians. Custodes are bigger, better equipped, fast, stronger, better trained, and more experienced.

GK can [Mod Edit - Whoa! Language, please.]

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard today. The Custodes are not better at fighting Daemons than the Grey Knights.

How can you use that as an example? Was he corrupted? NO. The only protection Custodes have is their conviction, no psychic shields, metal conditioning, or souls that are literally painful to Daemons.

Where's the other 3000 years from?

And no they don't fight Daemons every day. The Emperor is on the Golden Throne to keep that portal closed, he does this using his psychic might, protecting the human section. The Companions are the only ones that can stand in the Emperors presence they do not fight Daemons all the time.

Bigger isn't an advantage.
Terminator plus Aegis is better than Custode Armour, Nemesis weapons are better than their Halberds. Psycannons?
Only marginally faster and stronger,
Not against Daemons and today's enemies the Imperium faces, Grey Knights have been trained to fight them all.
They've spent the last 10,000 years standing around, with the occasional foray out into the Noble Houses or Blood Games, so no they aren't more experienced, especially against Daemons.
Plus, they aren't psykers and they don't work together, thus the only advantage they have is that they're slightly faster and stronger, not really that much of one against Daemons.

iproxtaco wrote:Feth me, why is it difficult for people to understand? It is not out of character. It is very IN CHARACTER. Plus, there is no bathing. Read the passage, if you actually have the book.

I've read it, but I don't have it in front of me at work.

The Bloodtide would have killed the Grey Knights. They are immune from the spiritual side, not from the physical. Thus, to defeat it, they needed an extra layer of physical protection.

Which could have been provided by willing and very capable allies apparently highly resistant to the blood tide.

To defeat the Warp, the most effective tool is sorcery. The Sisters were there, so they used their pure and innocent blood to enact a ritual

which is really not something one would typically picture the GK's doing. It just doesn't fit. Blood rituals and the blood of innocents really sounds like a Chaos thing, not something which the Grey Knights would engage in, lest it be twisted to the use of Chaos. It really just doesn't fit the character of the army. Blood rituals are a Chaos thing, not that of the anti-Chaos.

which they ANOINTED their armour with, NOT BATHED IN.

They're smearing blood all over themselves. Either way, not that different.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Harkens back to the point I made earlier. People and fine with the Grey Knights using any means necessary to defeat their enemies, until for some reason they actually use any means necessary, in which it then for some reason becomes not fine.

Lets be honest, the factions in this game run on themes and stereotypes. Ritually butchering innocents and using their blood to gain power is a Chaos thing, not a Grey Knight thing.

Mat Ward explained exactly the point he wanted to make with that story in WD, which was to show that the GK's will go to any lengths to accomplish their mission. While yes, this does that, it breaks the theme and stereotype of the faction in doing so. It's not something most Grey Knights players would imagine or like their army doing, which is a big no-no, hence the stink about it. Had they defeated the blood tide with the help of the sisters than turned upon them to keep hidden all knowledge of the event, that would have accomplished the same thing in a far more thematic way.

Actually, no, bathing and anointing are very, very different. Bathing is not used.

It's still entirely within the theme and stereotype of the Grey Knights, if that proposed theme and stereotype is if they use whatever methods and do whatever is necessary to achieve their goals.

Vaktathi wrote:I've read it, but I don't have it in front of me at work.

Read it again. 'The innocent blood thus spilled is mixed with blessed oils and used to anoint the GK's armour and weapons So shielded the GK are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of corruption.'

Which could have been provided by willing and very capable allies apparently highly resistant to the blood tide.

Inconclusive from the text.

which is really not something one would typically picture the GK's doing. It just doesn't fit. Blood rituals and the blood of innocents really sounds like a Chaos thing, not something which the Grey Knights would engage in, lest it be twisted to the use of Chaos. It really just doesn't fit the character of the army. Blood rituals are a Chaos thing, not that of the anti-Chaos.

GK have used sorcery for a loooong time. Index Astartes: "...furnished them with blasphemous knowledge painstakingly pieced together by the Inq of the OM. This damned collection of knowledge is gathered together on Titan in the Librarium Daemonica.""Each warrior of the GK carries a copy of the sacred Liber Daemonica... The book contains the essential tenets of lore culled from the Librarium Daemonica by psychically monitored servitors." In fact that lore is so dangerous that it also says "These servitors are permanently wired to toxin dispensers that can be activated immediately..."

They're smearing blood all over themselves. Either way, not that different.

From webster, 'to apply oil to as a sacred rite especially for consecration'. Yeah...

Lets be honest, the factions in this game run on themes and stereotypes. Ritually butchering innocents and using their blood to gain power is a Chaos thing, not a Grey Knight thing.

According to you. The whole schtick of the inquisition has always been that sometimes you use the weapons of the enemy to combat that enemy.

It's not something most Grey Knights players would imagine or like their army doing, which is a big no-no, hence the stink about it.

Those GK players evidently are not very aware of the history and fluff for their army.

Had they defeated the blood tide with the help of the sisters than turned upon them to keep hidden all knowledge of the event, that would have accomplished the same thing in a far more thematic way.

But they would have been consumed by the Bloodtide in the process.

iproxtaco wrote:Actually, no, bathing and anointing are very, very different. Bathing is not used.

End result either way, they're smearing blood all over themselves. The difference is pedantic.

It's still entirely within the theme and stereotype of the Grey Knights, if that proposed theme and stereotype is if they use whatever methods and do whatever is necessary to achieve their goals.

Again not really. The slaughter of innocents for Blood Rituals is not really what most would consider something they see the Grey Knights doing. World Eaters? Emperor's Children? Sure. But Grey Knights? No. And that's why most people don't like that story. It doesn't fit the theme, it's not what people would imagine them doing. Hence the outrage about it.

pretre wrote:Read it again.

Once more...it's not directly in front of me at work...

'The innocent blood thus spilled is mixed with blessed oils and used to anoint the GK's armour and weapons So shielded the GK are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of corruption.'

Except aren't they already immune to the corruption?

Inconclusive from the text.

It could have easily been written that way, and having a force of resistant Sisters to battle alongside, providing a shield and additional firepower would have likely made more sense. Mat Ward just chose to make it intentionally derpy.

GK have used sorcery for a loooong time. Index Astartes: "...furnished them with blasphemous knowledge painstakingly pieced together by the Inq of the OM. This damned collection of knowledge is gathered together on Titan in the Librarium Daemonica.""Each warrior of the GK carries a copy of the sacred Liber Daemonica... The book contains the essential tenets of lore culled from the Librarium Daemonica by psychically monitored servitors." In fact that lore is so dangerous that it also says "These servitors are permanently wired to toxin dispensers that can be activated immediately..."

yes, they have the knowledge so they can fight it, that doesn't mean they enact what's in it.

From webster, 'to apply oil to as a sacred rite especially for consecration'. Yeah...

See above

According to you.

I'm not exactly alone in that opinion, there's a widespread dislike of that story for a reason.

The whole schtick of the inquisition has always been that sometimes you use the weapons of the enemy to combat that enemy.

Yes, in some ways, but it's usually daemonhosts and daemon weapons, I've never heard of the INQ doing something like this, and at the same time the GK's are not the inquisition.

Those GK players evidently are not very aware of the history and fluff for their army.

I'd wager this isn't the case.

But they would have been consumed by the Bloodtide in the process.

Only because Mat Ward wrote it so that they had to butcher the sisters instead of use their faith and innocence to fight it.

Sorcery is not new with the Grey Knights, unless you give us a source with contradicts this.

Did I say the use of psychic powers was new? No, only that butchering innocents for blood rituals in the manner of the World Eaters or Word Bearers is not in the theme of the GK's.

Vaktathi wrote:Did I say the use of psychic powers was new? No, only that butchering innocents for blood rituals in the manner of the World Eaters or Word Bearers is not in the theme of the GK's.

You are adding something to the text that is not there. There is no 'butchering innocents for blood rituals in the manner of the WE or WB'.

Again, READ THE PASSAGE.
"Needing a talisman of purity to protect against the Bloodtide's taint, the GK's first act is to turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle. The innocent blood thus spilled is then mixed with blessed oils and used to anoint the GK's armour and weapons."

Where does it say they butchered them? It is even an assumption that the sisters were killed. Stop applying your own filter to it and read it for what it is.

They turned their blades on the SOB and then mixed some of the blood with blessed oils and anointed their stuff. That's it. No dance party for Khorne.

You're twisting it to form an argument. I said sorcery, not psychic powers. There's a difference. Any source which says that they didn't use sorcery? Because there's a fair few which say the did. Read pretre's posts, there's a few. I have the their sources as well.

pretre wrote:
Where does it say they butchered them? It is even an assumption that the sisters were killed. Stop applying your own filter to it and read it for what it is.

And what I was saying all this time? maybe they didn't kill them, maybe they just get a little blood from them to make this talisman and use it to defend them.
There is no mention whatsoever about them dying.

Brother Coa wrote:

pretre wrote:
Where does it say they butchered them? It is even an assumption that the sisters were killed. Stop applying your own filter to it and read it for what it is.

And what I was saying all this time? maybe they didn't kill them, maybe they just get a little blood from them to make this talisman and use it to defend them.
There is no mention whatsoever about them dying.

They killed them. That's exactly what he's talking about, you're applying your own filter to it. THEY KILLED THE SISTERS. That is not up for debate.

But he has a point, it don't say that they killed them. It is only state that they turned "their blades toward them", that may also meant hat they simply wound them to get some blood...

Wrong, it states exactly that they "turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle." That means the Grey Knights killed the Sisters of Battle. Killed. IT IS NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION.

iproxtaco wrote:Wrong, it states exactly that they "turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle." That means the Grey Knights killed the Sisters of Battle. Killed. IT IS NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION.

In explanation of this, to, "turn one's blade/weapon on someone," means to kill them. It's a subtle euphemism in English that's different from, "turn one's blade/weapon toward someone," which means to point the weapon at them and nothing further.

Pouncey wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Wrong, it states exactly that they "turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle." That means the Grey Knights killed the Sisters of Battle. Killed. IT IS NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION.

In explanation of this, to, "turn one's blade/weapon on someone," means to kill them. It's a subtle euphemism in English that's different from, "turn one's blade/weapon toward someone," which means to point the weapon at them and nothing further.

Here it is the same thing... to point any weapon, blade, knife... means that you are threating him. We have no difference when it comes to this quote.

Brother Coa wrote:

Pouncey wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Wrong, it states exactly that they "turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle." That means the Grey Knights killed the Sisters of Battle. Killed. IT IS NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION.

In explanation of this, to, "turn one's blade/weapon on someone," means to kill them. It's a subtle euphemism in English that's different from, "turn one's blade/weapon toward someone," which means to point the weapon at them and nothing further.

Exactly, they point their weapon toward SoB. They knew what must be done and let them wound them just to have a little blood for the talisman.

Upon in this case means 'on,' not 'toward.' Can it even mean 'toward?'

The SoB are dead.

It's not 'towards' though, it's UPON! They 'turned their blades UPON the surviving Sisters of Battle'. This means they killed them. Killed, there is no other explanation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

Pouncey wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Wrong, it states exactly that they "turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle." That means the Grey Knights killed the Sisters of Battle. Killed. IT IS NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION.

In explanation of this, to, "turn one's blade/weapon on someone," means to kill them. It's a subtle euphemism in English that's different from, "turn one's blade/weapon toward someone," which means to point the weapon at them and nothing further.

Here it is the same thing... to point any weapon, blade, knife... means that you are threating him. We have no difference when it comes to this quote.

Yes there is still a very big difference. 'Upon' means they killed them. It does not say 'toward' like you for some very strange reason think it does or means.

Vaktathi wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Actually, no, bathing and anointing are very, very different. Bathing is not used.

End result either way, they're smearing blood all over themselves. The difference is pedantic.

It's still entirely within the theme and stereotype of the Grey Knights, if that proposed theme and stereotype is if they use whatever methods and do whatever is necessary to achieve their goals.

Again not really. The slaughter of innocents for Blood Rituals is not really what most would consider something they see the Grey Knights doing. World Eaters? Emperor's Children? Sure. But Grey Knights? No. And that's why most people don't like that story. It doesn't fit the theme, it's not what people would imagine them doing. Hence the outrage about it.

pretre wrote:Read it again.

Once more...it's not directly in front of me at work...

'The innocent blood thus spilled is mixed with blessed oils and used to anoint the GK's armour and weapons So shielded the GK are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of corruption.'

Except aren't they already immune to the corruption?

Inconclusive from the text.

It could have easily been written that way, and having a force of resistant Sisters to battle alongside, providing a shield and additional firepower would have likely made more sense. Mat Ward just chose to make it intentionally derpy.

GK have used sorcery for a loooong time. Index Astartes: "...furnished them with blasphemous knowledge painstakingly pieced together by the Inq of the OM. This damned collection of knowledge is gathered together on Titan in the Librarium Daemonica.""Each warrior of the GK carries a copy of the sacred Liber Daemonica... The book contains the essential tenets of lore culled from the Librarium Daemonica by psychically monitored servitors." In fact that lore is so dangerous that it also says "These servitors are permanently wired to toxin dispensers that can be activated immediately..."

yes, they have the knowledge so they can fight it, that doesn't mean they enact what's in it.

From webster, 'to apply oil to as a sacred rite especially for consecration'. Yeah...

See above

According to you.

I'm not exactly alone in that opinion, there's a widespread dislike of that story for a reason.

The whole schtick of the inquisition has always been that sometimes you use the weapons of the enemy to combat that enemy.

Yes, in some ways, but it's usually daemonhosts and daemon weapons, I've never heard of the INQ doing something like this, and at the same time the GK's are not the inquisition.

Those GK players evidently are not very aware of the history and fluff for their army.

I'd wager this isn't the case.

But they would have been consumed by the Bloodtide in the process.

Only because Mat Ward wrote it so that they had to butcher the sisters instead of use their faith and innocence to fight it.

I usually agrue with you... But considering I agree with you on every point you have made. I honor you.

The entire Grey Knight Codex is Terribad.

After reading the fluff, I felt like scratching my eyes out. My brother literally told me this book is crap and threw it onto the ground and said I am not going to play grey knights anymore. And he has been playing them since the eye of terror campaign. He did not like that book, the entire thoughts of the Grey Knights going to any lengths to stop a daemon horde is good,but smearing blood on-themselves is satanic its not something a holy soldier would do.

Grey Knights would not need blood to purify themseleves they are already in armor that purifies them.

It is utterly useless to put blood on you.

I would understand if they slaughtered the sisters after they both defeated the Blood Tide, (Which by itself was defeated by lots of forces.) that would of been perfectly acceptable.

Also the Dreadknight looks like something stolen from the movie alien.

And Inqusitiors with Plasma Syphon??!?!?! Which Literally make all of their units around them invulnerable to plasma weapons????? What??!?????? BS1????

And Jakero with 49 lascannon shots is kinda of uhhhh broken....

I have heard the lists the grey knights produce are abostuley horrendously hard to beat.

After reading more in depth lots and lots of people hate the grey knight book.

The Space Marine Codex is the only reasonable book he has produced....

I believe he is CS. Goto. Though this is a theory, not actually based on anything apart from he is that bad, that it Makes Me feel like Goto would try to reclaim 40k and want to kill Ward with a hobby knife.

If you have ever heard of Zeist it is stolen from Highlander......

I don't really understand why would Necrons and Blood Angels team up again????? I Would think the Former Legion would slaughter the necrons afterwards by blowing a hole in their robotic skulls.

After playing a few games against the grey knights I do have to say the Grey Knights lists are hard to beat even against my plasma list, which literally was useless against the inqusitior. AS the only effective way was to kill termiantors is with plasma weaponry. I relied on military tactics (Favorablely the Pincer Maneuver which was fun.) and crushed the opponent, which everyone should do,

The Planet of the Apes list isn't that hard...
Not enough battles have been fought to find THE broken builds yet.

Probably good for you to read the Codex before forming a baseless opinion like that, Asherian Command

Asherian Command wrote:
He did not like that book, the entire thoughts of the Grey Knights going to any lengths to stop a daemon horde is good,but smearing blood on-themselves is satanic its not something a holy soldier would do.
Grey Knights would not need blood to purify themseleves they are already in armor that purifies them.
It is utterly useless to put blood on you.

Also the Dreadknight looks like something stolen from the movie alien.


After playing a few games against the grey knights I do have to say the Grey Knights lists are hard to beat even against my plasma list, which literally was useless against the inqusitior. AS the only effective way was to kill termiantors is with plasma weaponry. I relied on military tactics (Favorablely the Pincer Maneuver which was fun.) and crushed the opponent, which everyone should do,

Technically, it's not satanic.

They obviously needed the blood, otherwise they wouldn't have used it. Regardless of who writes their fluff, Grey Knights are not idiots.

Designs are changed and reused all the time. The Dreadknight is not the first, nor so similar that it qualifies as 'stolen.'

Why are you complaining about the strength of a Grey Knight list that you played directly into the hands of?

Asherian Command wrote:
After reading the fluff, I felt like scratching my eyes out. My brother literally told me this book is crap and threw it onto the ground and said I am not going to play grey knights anymore. And he has been playing them since the eye of terror campaign. He did not like that book, the entire thoughts of the Grey Knights going to any lengths to stop a daemon horde is good,but smearing blood on-themselves is satanic its not something a holy soldier would do.

Read everything pretre and myself have posted and be enlightened. I HIGHLY doubt any of the above is true.

Grey Knights would not need blood to purify themseleves they are already in armor that purifies them.

It's against the physical effects of the Bloodtide, not the spiritual.

It is utterly useless to put blood on you.

See above.

Also the Dreadknight looks like something stolen from the movie alien.

That was not only Mat Ward, it was the entire Design team.

And Inqusitiors with Plasma Syphon??!?!?! Which Literally make all of their units around them invulnerable to plasma weapons????? What??!?????? BS1????

First I've seen it complained about. Not really that bad.

And Jakero with 49 lascannon shots is kinda of uhhhh broken....

Nope, not really.

I have heard the lists the grey knights produce are abostuley horrendously hard to beat.

Riiiiiight. I haven't. Never heard of any that are.

After reading more in depth lots and lots of people hate the grey knight book.

No, a small minority of people actually hate the Grey Knight Codex. The rest are bandwagoners or have baseless arguments to are excluded as morons.

The Space Marine Codex is the only reasonable book he has produced....

Aside from the Blood Angels Codex and Grey Knight Codex.

I believe he is CS. Goto. Though this is a theory, not actually based on anything apart from he is that bad, that it Makes Me feel like Goto would try to reclaim 40k and want to kill Ward with a hobby knife.

C.S Goto breaks the fluff in everything he writes, Mat Ward does not.

If you have ever heard of Zeist it is stolen from Highlander......

And?

I don't really understand why would Necrons and Blood Angels team up again????? I Would think the Former Legion would slaughter the necrons afterwards by blowing a hole in their robotic skulls.

They don't, they pause in fighting each other to fight the Tyranids, no alliance is made. They then go their separate ways, fighting each other would have destroyed them both.

After playing a few games against the grey knights I do have to say the Grey Knights lists are hard to beat even against my plasma list, which literally was useless against the inqusitior. AS the only effective way was to kill termiantors is with plasma weaponry. I relied on military tactics (Favorablely the Pincer Maneuver which was fun.) and crushed the opponent, which everyone should do,

So your plasma list was negated simply because you were fighting an ANTI-PLASMA list? Astounding.

Baseless argument is baseless.

iproxtaco wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
After reading the fluff, I felt like scratching my eyes out. My brother literally told me this book is crap and threw it onto the ground and said I am not going to play grey knights anymore. And he has been playing them since the eye of terror campaign. He did not like that book, the entire thoughts of the Grey Knights going to any lengths to stop a daemon horde is good,but smearing blood on-themselves is satanic its not something a holy soldier would do.

Read everything pretre and myself have posted and be enlightened. I HIGHLY doubt any of the above is true.
Sadly that is the truth. I am the old grey knight player, and you agrued against the custodes, So I feel no symphony for you.

Grey Knights would not need blood to purify themseleves they are already in armor that purifies them.

It's against the physical effects of the Bloodtide, not the spiritual.
SO the already pure grey knights need more purity? ITs a double postive which in the context of reading is utterly useless like purifiers....

It is utterly useless to put blood on you.

See above.
How about you listen to opinons more often eh? Everyone is entitled to one.

Also the Dreadknight looks like something stolen from the movie alien.

That was not only Mat Ward, it was the entire Design team.
Maybe so but he is also the project leader so in terms of who is to blame, you blame the head guy for the stupidity of his team.

And Inqusitiors with Plasma Syphon??!?!?! Which Literally make all of their units around them invulnerable to plasma weapons????? What??!?????? BS1????

First I've seen it complained about. Not really that bad.
True But it is very annoying and considering horde lists are the only true way to beat grey knights now, unforunately my custodes list and my Small squad lists cannot do that.

And Jakero with 49 lascannon shots is kinda of uhhhh broken....

Nope, not really.
Yes it is. Do you play guard? If so you will see your entire army dead in the next turn.

I have heard the lists the grey knights produce are abostuley horrendously hard to beat.

Riiiiiight. I haven't. Never heard of any that are.
Uhhhhh YEAh About that, you really don't understand the fact that the Imperial players hate the fact that the grey knights have almost everyweapon to bench rape any player. After playing a few games I saw that they were kinda of rigged, Feel no pain with 2 wound models, force weapons, +2 armor and +4 invulnerable save... YEs this sounds like an aboustely brilliant idea. Making most fan made rules look like cannon fodder.

After reading more in depth lots and lots of people hate the grey knight book.

No, a small minority of people actually hate the Grey Knight Codex. The rest are bandwagoners or have baseless arguments to are excluded as morons.
NO not really clearly you have not talked to people outside of your district, everyone at my store, which is a gw store, Hate the new codex.

The Space Marine Codex is the only reasonable book he has produced....

Aside from the Blood Angels Codex and Grey Knight Codex.
Not really, The Original Grey Knight Codex, It is alot better than the current version. Let me rephrase that, Compared to the current version, the Older grey knight codex is 300000x better than the current as the fluff does not contradict other sources... Also they are down to 1,000 marines which for the grey knights sucks. IT was better when they were spread thinly.

I believe he is CS. Goto. Though this is a theory, not actually based on anything apart from he is that bad, that it Makes Me feel like Goto would try to reclaim 40k and want to kill Ward with a hobby knife.

C.S Goto breaks the fluff in everything he writes, Mat Ward does not.
Are you joking? Or are you high?

If you have ever heard of Zeist it is stolen from Highlander......

And?
Its funny that he can't think of a good name by himself.

I don't really understand why would Necrons and Blood Angels team up again????? I Would think the Former Legion would slaughter the necrons afterwards by blowing a hole in their robotic skulls.

They don't, they pause in fighting each other to fight the Tyranids, no alliance is made. They then go their separate ways, fighting each other would have destroyed them both.
Uhhh, You know the Space Marines literally say, Death to Xenos right? So that also means even if they all die and take out the necrons it was worth it in the end. Such does say the Codex Astrates.

After playing a few games against the grey knights I do have to say the Grey Knights lists are hard to beat even against my plasma list, which literally was useless against the inqusitior. AS the only effective way was to kill termiantors is with plasma weaponry. I relied on military tactics (Favorablely the Pincer Maneuver which was fun.) and crushed the opponent, which everyone should do,

So your plasma list was negated simply because you were fighting an ANTI-PLASMA list? Astounding.

Baseless argument is baseless.

Baseless Argument eh? Well I got something for ya.
After playing for 10 years, I have learned that the Grey knights were awesome. Now lets picture this, The Grey Knights were 3,000 strong and could take on a horde of daemons without the aid of giant robot gundams, now they need Gundams, As they believe that putting more useless armor upon them selves and using daemonic weapons which are utterly against their basis of being pure soldiers that kill other chapters for containing just a single daemonic object like a pin pong ball they will go out to destroy the chapter and take the object and use it for their own means. Yeah. If that isn't chaos, I don't know what is.

The Grey knights under Mat Ward's Fluff make them into Chaos Space Marine Champions. Sorry but the evidence points to them being well evil, the grey knights are corrupted so much so, I believe it would make C.S. Goto forfiet his salary, It also makes some chaos space marines look absolutely better in comparison.

Also I believe your opinion is negated as you are kinda of talking to a custodes player that has seen the grey knights slaughter a Custodian Guard Squad, Then get aboustely owned by my walking tanks that I like to call overlords.

Also read some of the old fluff, you will learn that the Grey Knights utterly refused to use daemon weapons and Daemon Hosts in anyway, as they saw them as evil and would rather stab them to death. The Grey Knights will not use chaos to counter chaos, doesn't that make them chaos then?!?!??

By the way the Sisters of battle are part of the inqusition and they do have knowledge of daemons.... Hence... The Ordo Heretics.... Which investigates hersey and corruption and daemons within the imperium. Just imagine what would happen if the ordo herectics learned that an entire order was slaughtered? By daemon weapons.... used by the grey knights.... who are using sorcery. Yeah I am sensing another Thousand Sons Reference right there. Damn Magnus would be pissed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
He did not like that book, the entire thoughts of the Grey Knights going to any lengths to stop a daemon horde is good,but smearing blood on-themselves is satanic its not something a holy soldier would do.
Grey Knights would not need blood to purify themseleves they are already in armor that purifies them.
It is utterly useless to put blood on you.

Also the Dreadknight looks like something stolen from the movie alien.


After playing a few games against the grey knights I do have to say the Grey Knights lists are hard to beat even against my plasma list, which literally was useless against the inqusitior. AS the only effective way was to kill termiantors is with plasma weaponry. I relied on military tactics (Favorablely the Pincer Maneuver which was fun.) and crushed the opponent, which everyone should do,

Technically, it's not satanic.

They obviously needed the blood, otherwise they wouldn't have used it. Regardless of who writes their fluff, Grey Knights are not idiots.

Designs are changed and reused all the time. The Dreadknight is not the first, nor so similar that it qualifies as 'stolen.'

Why are you complaining about the strength of a Grey Knight list that you played directly into the hands of?

To me and a few others that is.
Its not really stolen its just annoyingly bad model that I could see better from gw.


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iproxtaco wrote:Probably good for you to read the Codex before forming a baseless opinion like that, Asherian Command

I have read the codex. And maybe you should learn to read other fluff first.

I doubt you feel symphony for anyone Ash...

There are 2 divisions when it comes to immunity through purity.
1)A pure mind will keep your body pure. This is the kind of thinking the old GK were based on.
2)A pure mind does not necessarily mean a pure body.

Jokaero aren't that over-powered so just calm down about them. They are weak and have a BS of 3 IIRC(May be wrong)

Sisters aren't a part of the Inquisition they are just used by the Hereticus a lot, they are a part of the Ecclesiarchy.

Matt Ward wrote a passable Vanilla codex with not that many faults...

Not all SM are dogmatic, some are pragmatic.

Did it ever occur to you that he chose that name on purpose? Not everything has to be original. There is a meaning in names...
You know Zelda from the Zelda games? Her name originally came from the wife of Scott Fitzgerald.
My DIY chapter commander is called Iago Wynter. Iago is a character from Othello who decieved Othello and tricked him into killing his wife, Othello later killed himself out of guilt. Wynter is merely a place holder.

purplefood wrote:I doubt you feel symphony for anyone Ash...

There are 2 divisions when it comes to immunity through purity.
1)A pure mind will keep your body pure. This is the kind of thinking the old GK were based on.
2)A pure mind does not necessarily mean a pure body.

Jokaero aren't that over-powered so just calm down about them. They are weak and have a BS of 3 IIRC(May be wrong)

Sisters aren't a part of the Inquisition they are just used by the Hereticus a lot, they are a part of the Ecclesiarchy.

Matt Ward wrote a passable Vanilla codex with not that many faults...

Not all SM are dogmatic, some are pragmatic.

Did it ever occur to you that he chose that name on purpose? Not everything has to be original. There is a meaning in names...
You know Zelda from the Zelda games? Her name originally came from the wife of Scott Fitzgerald.
My DIY chapter commander is called Iago Wynter. Iago is a character from Othello who decieved Othello and tricked him into killing his wife, Othello later killed himself out of guilt. Wynter is merely a place holder.

I don't feel symphony for anyone on the internet XD
But yes I can see that. Your opinion was presented better than the pervious user.
Jokaero Are just uhhh...... useless. they should only actually be used by the Ordo Xenos.... Not the Ordo Malleus.....
Also I am still pissed at The team Designers getting rid of Storm Troopers.

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:I doubt you feel symphony for anyone Ash...

There are 2 divisions when it comes to immunity through purity.
1)A pure mind will keep your body pure. This is the kind of thinking the old GK were based on.
2)A pure mind does not necessarily mean a pure body.

Jokaero aren't that over-powered so just calm down about them. They are weak and have a BS of 3 IIRC(May be wrong)

Sisters aren't a part of the Inquisition they are just used by the Hereticus a lot, they are a part of the Ecclesiarchy.

Matt Ward wrote a passable Vanilla codex with not that many faults...

Not all SM are dogmatic, some are pragmatic.

Did it ever occur to you that he chose that name on purpose? Not everything has to be original. There is a meaning in names...
You know Zelda from the Zelda games? Her name originally came from the wife of Scott Fitzgerald.
My DIY chapter commander is called Iago Wynter. Iago is a character from Othello who decieved Othello and tricked him into killing his wife, Othello later killed himself out of guilt. Wynter is merely a place holder.

I don't feel symphony for anyone on the internet XD
But yes I can see that. Your opinion was presented better than the pervious user.
Jokaero Are just uhhh...... useless. they should only actually be used by the Ordo Xenos.... Not the Ordo Malleus.....
Also I am still pissed at The team Designers getting rid of Storm Troopers.

Well i wanted an all Inquisition codex but MEQ took the stage and made it all about them...
I do agree that Jokaero should have been limited in some way, a limit on numbers or how they can be taken.

purplefood wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:I doubt you feel symphony for anyone Ash...

There are 2 divisions when it comes to immunity through purity.
1)A pure mind will keep your body pure. This is the kind of thinking the old GK were based on.
2)A pure mind does not necessarily mean a pure body.

Jokaero aren't that over-powered so just calm down about them. They are weak and have a BS of 3 IIRC(May be wrong)

Sisters aren't a part of the Inquisition they are just used by the Hereticus a lot, they are a part of the Ecclesiarchy.

Matt Ward wrote a passable Vanilla codex with not that many faults...

Not all SM are dogmatic, some are pragmatic.

Did it ever occur to you that he chose that name on purpose? Not everything has to be original. There is a meaning in names...
You know Zelda from the Zelda games? Her name originally came from the wife of Scott Fitzgerald.
My DIY chapter commander is called Iago Wynter. Iago is a character from Othello who decieved Othello and tricked him into killing his wife, Othello later killed himself out of guilt. Wynter is merely a place holder.

I don't feel symphony for anyone on the internet XD
But yes I can see that. Your opinion was presented better than the pervious user.
Jokaero Are just uhhh...... useless. they should only actually be used by the Ordo Xenos.... Not the Ordo Malleus.....
Also I am still pissed at The team Designers getting rid of Storm Troopers.

Well i wanted an all Inquisition codex but MEQ took the stage and made it all about them...
I do agree that Jokaero should have been limited in some way, a limit on numbers or how they can be taken.

If you take Cortez you can literally get squads of them thats what ticks me off. Though it would be funny to see that not Going to lie.
If they limited that I would of been a little fine with new inqustiorial Troops not just grey knights. I was looking forward to making a huge Inqustiorial Army. Now I can't Sad face : (
Though the fluff about the sisters made me face palm not as bad as the Dragio. Of course this is coming from me where, I have one of my characters punching through the head of a chaos space marine using their clawed armored hands... Oh wait that is possible never mind.
Though I do have some ridicilous lore. There are some lore out there that aren't ridiculous.

Asherian Command wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
After reading the fluff, I felt like scratching my eyes out. My brother literally told me this book is crap and threw it onto the ground and said I am not going to play grey knights anymore. And he has been playing them since the eye of terror campaign. He did not like that book, the entire thoughts of the Grey Knights going to any lengths to stop a daemon horde is good,but smearing blood on-themselves is satanic its not something a holy soldier would do.

Read everything pretre and myself have posted and be enlightened. I HIGHLY doubt any of the above is true.

Sadly that is the truth. I am the old grey knight player, and you agrued against the custodes, So I feel no symphony for you.

Was it this thread or the other? At least I had reasons for my argument in both.

Grey Knights would not need blood to purify themseleves they are already in armor that purifies them.

It's against the physical effects of the Bloodtide, not the spiritual.

SO the already pure grey knights need more purity? ITs a double postive which in the context of reading is utterly useless like purifiers...

Did you read my reply? They are immune to the spiritual side of it, not the physical, hence they used an extra layer to protect themselves so they could defeat the Bloodtide.

It is utterly useless to put blood on you.

See above.

How about you listen to opinons more often eh? Everyone is entitled to one.

And yet here we are.

Also the Dreadknight looks like something stolen from the movie alien.

That was not only Mat Ward, it was the entire Design team.

Maybe so but he is also the project leader so in terms of who is to blame, you blame the head guy for the stupidity of his team.

But he wasn't was he? He is not a sculptor, so there is someone or some persons to blame for the actual model.

And Inqusitiors with Plasma Syphon??!?!?! Which Literally make all of their units around them invulnerable to plasma weapons????? What??!?????? BS1????

First I've seen it complained about. Not really that bad.

True But it is very annoying and considering horde lists are the only true way to beat grey knights now, unforunately my custodes list and my Small squad lists cannot do that.

There's a thread in the tactics section that would very much like you to see it.

And Jakero with 49 lascannon shots is kinda of uhhhh broken....

Nope, not really.

Yes it is. Do you play guard? If so you will see your entire army dead in the next turn.

No I don't, nor have I seen any Guard player complain about it.

I have heard the lists the grey knights produce are abostuley horrendously hard to beat.

Riiiiiight. I haven't. Never heard of any that are.

Uhhhhh YEAh About that, you really don't understand the fact that the Imperial players hate the fact that the grey knights have almost everyweapon to bench rape any player. After playing a few games I saw that they were kinda of rigged, Feel no pain with 2 wound models, force weapons, +2 armor and +4 invulnerable save... YEs this sounds like an aboustely brilliant idea. Making most fan made rules look like cannon fodder.

Looks like you need to adapt your tactics. Missing the fact that powerful units are belied by a high points cost and very low model count.

After reading more in depth lots and lots of people hate the grey knight book.

No, a small minority of people actually hate the Grey Knight Codex. The rest are bandwagoners or have baseless arguments so are excluded as morons.

NO not really clearly you have not talked to people outside of your district, everyone at my store, which is a gw store, Hate the new codex.

Then you're local is part of that minority.

The Space Marine Codex is the only reasonable book he has produced....

Aside from the Blood Angels Codex and Grey Knight Codex.

Not really, The Original Grey Knight Codex, It is alot better than the current version. Let me rephrase that, Compared to the current version, the Older grey knight codex is 300000x better than the current as the fluff does not contradict other sources... Also they are down to 1,000 marines which for the grey knights sucks. IT was better when they were spread thinly.

Please, explain what sources is this up to date Codex contradicting? Not to mention that those sources have now been retconned, and cannot now be contradicted.

I believe he is CS. Goto. Though this is a theory, not actually based on anything apart from he is that bad, that it Makes Me feel like Goto would try to reclaim 40k and want to kill Ward with a hobby knife.

C.S Goto breaks the fluff in everything he writes, Mat Ward does not.

Are you joking? Or are you high?

No, you must be. Nothing Ward has written has broken the fluff of 40k. In fact, it has been made more 40k.

If you have ever heard of Zeist it is stolen from Highlander......

And?

Its funny that he can't think of a good name by himself.

Yes, because it's the only example of a name in 40k that's been taken from another source. Zeist isn't exactly common or iconic either, and it doesn't seem to bother people.

I don't really understand why would Necrons and Blood Angels team up again????? I Would think the Former Legion would slaughter the necrons afterwards by blowing a hole in their robotic skulls.

They don't, they pause in fighting each other to fight the Tyranids, no alliance is made. They then go their separate ways, fighting each other would have destroyed them both.

Uhhh, You know the Space Marines literally say, Death to Xenos right? So that also means even if they all die and take out the necrons it was worth it in the end. Such does say the Codex Astrates.

Yeah, do you have a copy of that fictional book? Forgetting that Space Marines are not idiots, they can do whatever they want, and that they were being lead by Dante, the wisest of all Space Marines, who knew that his force of Blood Angels is more valuable to the Imperium than a few more dead Necrons.

After playing a few games against the grey knights I do have to say the Grey Knights lists are hard to beat even against my plasma list, which literally was useless against the inqusitior. AS the only effective way was to kill termiantors is with plasma weaponry. I relied on military tactics (Favorablely the Pincer Maneuver which was fun.) and crushed the opponent, which everyone should do,

So your plasma list was negated simply because you were fighting an ANTI-PLASMA list? Astounding.

Baseless argument is baseless.

Baseless Argument eh? Well I got something for ya.
After playing for 10 years, I have learned that the Grey knights were awesome. Now lets picture this, The Grey Knights were 3,000 strong and could take on a horde of daemons without the aid of giant robot gundams, now they need Gundams, As they believe that putting more useless armor upon them selves and using daemonic weapons which are utterly against their basis of being pure soldiers that kill other chapters for containing just a single daemonic object like a pin pong ball they will go out to destroy the chapter and take the object and use it for their own means. Yeah. If that isn't chaos, I don't know what is.

They don't need Dreadknight, it's there as a more effective way of taking on a Greater Daemon or Daemon Prince, it doesn't mean the Grey Knights can't do it by themselves any more. The holy protection given by the Sisters was quite clearly not useless. Grey Knights are not pure soldiers in the same sense you think they are.
I don't understand, are you saying the Grey Knights now destroy Chapters of Space Marines? Since when? Did the purple Dragon give you this source? They mind-wipe any they come across.

The Grey knights under Mat Ward's Fluff make them into Chaos Space Marine Champions. Sorry but the evidence points to them being well evil, the grey knights are corrupted so much so, I believe it would make C.S. Goto forfiet his salary, It also makes some chaos space marines look absolutely better in comparison.

They fight for humanity, against Daemons, they're whole purpose in life is to fight them, not at all like a Chaos Champion. Evil they are none, therefore stop, I see thee knowest them not.

Also I believe your opinion is negated as you are kinda of talking to a custodes player that has seen the grey knights slaughter a Custodian Guard Squad, Then get aboustely owned by my walking tanks that I like to call overlords.

In what way does that make my opinion that the Grey Knight codex is not bad negated by that strange example? Or are you talking about my thoughts on the Grey Knights being superior to Custodes? Becasue those Custodes just got killed by the Grey Knights apparently.

Also read some of the old fluff, you will learn that the Grey Knights utterly refused to use daemon weapons and Daemon Hosts in anyway, as they saw them as evil and would rather stab them to death. The Grey Knights will not use chaos to counter chaos, doesn't that make them chaos then?!?!??

No, they still don't use Chaos to counter Chaos. Sorcery is not Chaos. Sorcery is a process which involves ritual and sacrifice in which power is sourced from a psyker or from the Warp, in order to have a certain effect. In this case, they used the sacrifice given by the Sisters of Battle, using their psychic powers, in order to enact a ritual which would anoint their armour to protect them from the Bloodtide.

By the way the Sisters of battle are part of the inqusition and they do have knowledge of daemons.... Hence... The Ordo Heretics.... Which investigates hersey and corruption and daemons within the imperium. Just imagine what would happen if the ordo herectics learned that an entire order was slaughtered? By daemon weapons.... used by the grey knights.... who are using sorcery. Yeah I am sensing another Thousand Sons Reference right there. Damn Magnus would be pissed.[/quote
What order was slaughtered? This from the same source the Dragon gave you? No Daemon weapons were used against the Sisters of Battle in the Bloodtide story, just the Nemesis Force Weapons the Grey Knights use, which are not Daemon Weapons in any way. Magnus would be pissed. However, The Emperor has instructed the Grey Knights to use sorcery. Argument undermined.

iproxtaco wrote:Probably good for you to read the Codex before forming a baseless opinion like that, Asherian Command

I have read the codex. And maybe you should learn to read other fluff first.

I have, all of it. Not really seeing why I had to though, it's just the same but with less details.
That took a lot of editing to try and obtain a semblance of order.


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You may be able to make one when the Siters of Battle codex come out, depending on what Inquisition forces they have in it. You could always adapt your own Stormtroopers I think a few people on the forum have done this.
Don't get me started on Draigo. His fluff and the use of Daemonhosts in a Grey Knight army are the two bits I don't like in the Codex.

pretre wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Dreads are already hugely powerful. Make it fly and it becomes about 2x deadlier. Then give it psychic powers and you've broken a codex.

They need to fix it. This is worse than that whole "Fish o' Fury" thing.

hahahahahaha

Okay, sorry I didn't notice you were pulling my leg until you brought up Fish o' Fury as being broken. I should have known you were joking when you brought up libdreads instead of Meph or Blood Talons, but didn't. Props.

They fixed the fish O' fury, but they used to be tournament-breakingly good.

Then, for the first time ever, GW decided to fix one of it's problems!.

Seriously, before the being stationary made them land thing came into play, extreme heavy weapons were the only way to deal with it. And even then, not very easy to do. 54 str5 shots a turn without being able to assault is just...scary.