Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

purplefood wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

yankees4life3 wrote:As for this whole Spirit vs Body debate, If you are pure of spirit than your body will be pure also, so the body being morphed by chaos wouldn't make much sense if they are so pure in spirit.

How do you figure? If it's a physical sickness, their mind and spirit aren't going to protect them.

"We shield ourselves with the armour of contempt"
A thinking among Imperial scholars that a strong and faithful mind can resist physical taint.
It also seems to work to a point...

To a point, yeah, up until that Chosen of Nurgle points his finger at you and says, "blurgrblhubl."

Nerivant wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

yankees4life3 wrote:As for this whole Spirit vs Body debate, If you are pure of spirit than your body will be pure also, so the body being morphed by chaos wouldn't make much sense if they are so pure in spirit.

How do you figure? If it's a physical sickness, their mind and spirit aren't going to protect them.

"We shield ourselves with the armour of contempt"
A thinking among Imperial scholars that a strong and faithful mind can resist physical taint.
It also seems to work to a point...

To a point, yeah, up until that Chosen of Nurgle points his finger at you and says, "blurgrblhubl."

Well it might work...
Depends how strong your mind is.
You might not be corrupted by Chaos taint though you will be dissolved by so many diseases the NHS would simply quit their day job.
At any rate i think it is supposed to apply to passive Chaos taint as opposed to bolts of warp lightning being flung around the place.

Well the plague of undeath doesn't affect the pure of spirit.

Also, flying librarian dreadnoughts.

purplefood wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

yankees4life3 wrote:As for this whole Spirit vs Body debate, If you are pure of spirit than your body will be pure also, so the body being morphed by chaos wouldn't make much sense if they are so pure in spirit.

How do you figure? If it's a physical sickness, their mind and spirit aren't going to protect them.

"We shield ourselves with the armour of contempt"
A thinking among Imperial scholars that a strong and faithful mind can resist physical taint.
It also seems to work to a point...

To a point, yeah, up until that Chosen of Nurgle points his finger at you and says, "blurgrblhubl."

Well it might work...
Depends how strong your mind is.
You might not be corrupted by Chaos taint though you will be dissolved by so many diseases the NHS would simply quit their day job.
At any rate i think it is supposed to apply to passive Chaos taint as opposed to bolts of warp lightning being flung around the place.

I thought Battle Sisters had a special rule that sometimes negated psychic powers due to their faith in the Emperor to keep them safe.

Not sure...
They might have a faith power that does it...
If they don't they should.

Movac wrote:He's an incompetent nerd. I really hope he has nothing to do with the BT codex.

Who has a crappy beard and what appears to be a small amount facial mutilation.

purplefood wrote:Not sure...
They might have a faith power that does it...
If they don't they should.

It's a passive effect called Shield of Faith.

It's more of a disruption effect against psychic powers though, preventing them from being used under some circumstances rather than providing defense from the power's effects after it's been used. Of course, I dunno if it's been removed in the PDF, or if it was errata/FAQed out.


One of their Acts of Faith gives them an invulnerable save equal to their armor save or something like that, though.

I think it might need a tiny boost considering the general power of psychic powers today.
I like that one... a giant f**k you to Bloodletters and their power weapons.

Nerivant wrote:It's not everyone being pissed at Mat Ward, it's Mat Ward pissed at everyone for adding an extra 't' to his first name.

They do so because of the association with the double-T in pr...
although the single-T in tw.. works just as well.

Please note that I am merely surmising what others are thinking, and not expressing my own opinion.
Just picking up on the gestalt is all. I am sure he is a jolly decent sort who is good to his mother and kind to small fluffy animals.
I am also reliably informed that he has a particular fondness for pickles, which marks him out as a singular man of good taste.

Who has a crappy beard and what appears to be a small amount facial mutilation.

but that could equally apply to many a gamer including myself.

Oh hey...
That rhymes...
I never realised that...

I like most of the 5th edition main rules. that I'll admit. From what I've seen with the fluff, he needs to leave that to someone else. Dan Abnett could write circles around him.

I'm just tired of marines getting codex after codex, while armies like armored company are a fringe element, when guard armies are so dependant on tanks. That one i'll never understand.

As for the "ultramarines are the awesomeness" argument, I tend to disagree. They're vanilla marines. I'm sorry but I'd take any other marine codex over vanilla marines.

As for the new stuff that's gonna be pumped out, I'm just waiting for half of the people to go "awesome!" and the other half to go "Damn you Matt!"

i'd be more concerned witht he guy if i wasn't more pressed to just hate GW for their general policies, prices, and business tactics. I love 40k, but despise the company that makes it.

Backfire wrote:

Tarkand wrote:
This one jumps out at people more because the books keep harping on and on about how pure and perfect the GK are, about how none have ever fallen, about how they mind is made of iron and did we mention just how damn pure they are? If a GK bathes in a cesspool, after 5 minutes, the water is perfectly drinkable and smell faintly of lavender.

And then they go ahead and commit a rather evil act so they won't get corrupted. Which make most people go 'Wait, what?'. The whole thing makes about as much sense as setting yourself on fire to avoid getting cold. I mean, yeah, it'll work, but nobody should need to tell you why it's a bad idea. Not to mention that SoB's faith comes from their belief in the Emperor... I don't really get how their blood would work as a 'corruption retardant' - if anything you'd think killing SoBs would be a pretty terrible act that takes you closer to corruption...

No, it actually makes perfect sense. GK are pure and uncorruptible, because they are ready to do anything to avoid being corrupted. Including some acts which might seem terrible and heinous when taken out of context, but in the end it's all for Greater Good. Er, I mean 'greater good'.

Really, I don't see what's the problem here. I guess some people think GK should be saints. They aren't, they are just bunch of people who have very serious job to do, and are ready to do pretty much anything to get the job done. They can't afford empathy.

This reminds me of the second half this video


It really doesn't make sense
The whole book contradicts itself constantly


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:And yet the use of sorcery inverted in purpose to fight the forces of the Warp is also entirely in-keeping with the general concept if the Grey Knights, in the past and now. They use whatever methods that are effective, regardless of what it is. It's something a lot of people just seem to miss no matter how many times they 'read their codex' or read it on a post

Umm let me just explain this to you
When you use sorcery, your making a pact with daemons
DAEMONS

Now think about that for a minute
Now explain to me how they are incorruptible and can't be tempted by daemons and the Chaos gods if they are actively making pacts with them?


Yeah thats what I thought...
Might wanna think things through before you say things like that

Asuron wrote:

Backfire wrote:

Tarkand wrote:
This one jumps out at people more because the books keep harping on and on about how pure and perfect the GK are, about how none have ever fallen, about how they mind is made of iron and did we mention just how damn pure they are? If a GK bathes in a cesspool, after 5 minutes, the water is perfectly drinkable and smell faintly of lavender.

And then they go ahead and commit a rather evil act so they won't get corrupted. Which make most people go 'Wait, what?'. The whole thing makes about as much sense as setting yourself on fire to avoid getting cold. I mean, yeah, it'll work, but nobody should need to tell you why it's a bad idea. Not to mention that SoB's faith comes from their belief in the Emperor... I don't really get how their blood would work as a 'corruption retardant' - if anything you'd think killing SoBs would be a pretty terrible act that takes you closer to corruption...

No, it actually makes perfect sense. GK are pure and uncorruptible, because they are ready to do anything to avoid being corrupted. Including some acts which might seem terrible and heinous when taken out of context, but in the end it's all for Greater Good. Er, I mean 'greater good'.

Really, I don't see what's the problem here. I guess some people think GK should be saints. They aren't, they are just bunch of people who have very serious job to do, and are ready to do pretty much anything to get the job done. They can't afford empathy.

This reminds me of the second half this video


It really doesn't make sense
The whole book contradicts itself constantly


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:And yet the use of sorcery inverted in purpose to fight the forces of the Warp is also entirely in-keeping with the general concept if the Grey Knights, in the past and now. They use whatever methods that are effective, regardless of what it is. It's something a lot of people just seem to miss no matter how many times they 'read their codex' or read it on a post

Umm let me just explain this to you
When you use sorcery, your making a pact with daemons
DAEMONS

Now think about that for a minute
Now explain to me how they are incorruptible and can't be tempted by daemons and the Chaos gods if they are actively making pacts with them?


Yeah thats what I thought...
Might wanna think things through before you say things like that

Explain how it's a contradiction AT ALL. There's really nothing in the book which is contradicted in another part. By that I mean, instead of just saying it, give us proof, quotations plox.

Eh, no. Sorcery is not making a pact with Daemons. It's usually ASSOCIATED with worshippers of Chaos, but it is not about making a pact with Daemons, thus the Grey Knights are not making pacts with Daemons. It's a process associated with ritual and sacrifice fueled by the powers of the Warp (NOT DAEMONS OR CHAOS) or psychic powers in order to have a powerful effect on the Warp or the Material realm. The Thousand Sons and many Loyalist Librarians before the Heresy, and possibly even today, used sorcery, they did not make pacts with Daemons.

The rituals the Grey Knights use are used to destroy Daemons, stop the powers of the Warp in general, and close openings to the Warp. Their rituals are not trying to tempt them to Chaos.

They killed the sisters as a reagent in a ritual to stave off the physical effects of the Bloodtide. No pacts were made.

Actually them killing the Sisters was more along the lines of

"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR SKULL THRONE!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But yeah, sorcery is not making pact with daemons. The warp is an elemental force, and it is not all evil. Chaos exists within the warp, in the same way that humanity exists within the materium. If you enter the materium, you will probably find them, but it doesn't mean that 100% of the materium IS humanity.

Except its not along those lines in any way, shape or form. They kill many other factions because they do what is necessary. This time it happened to be Sisters of Battle. That doesn't make it any different.

"For the Emperor, we do what we must. We are Humanity's Shield!"

iproxtaco wrote:Except its not along those lines in any way, shape or form. They kill many other factions because they do what is necessary. This time it happened to be Sisters of Battle. That doesn't make it any different.

"For the Emperor, we do what we must. We are Humanity's Shield!"

...or they could march the Custodes into the EoT and destroy everything there. Just sayin'. 10,000 warriors, each and every one better than a GK...

Or they could go get some sniffer dogs and find all the trees Leman Russ has peed on over the last 10,000 years. Should lead you right to him. Then get that fruit thing he was looking for and tell the big E to stop hittin' snooze on his alarm clock, and go save the galaxy.

Or throw a stink-bomb in the EoT. THAT will make the daemons go away

Nah, Nurgle would stay.

And the Grey Knights are infinitely better at fighting Daemons than the Custodes are.

iproxtaco wrote:Except its not along those lines in any way, shape or form. They kill many other factions because they do what is necessary. This time it happened to be Sisters of Battle. That doesn't make it any different.

Except it does. Yes, the GK's will turn on their allies and destroy the, and yes the GK's will kill innocents so tens of billions of others may live. But the way this story was done was just so awful and out of character for the GK's that it just doesn't make sense. It sounds more like a Khornate blood ritual than anything else.

Again, had it been "yay we beat the daemons, now unfortunately you know too much and we have to kill you" that would have fit far better and read much better. Most people would have probably thought that a fairly cool story of the means and methods of the Inquisition and their Chamber Militant. But the whole "bathing in the blood of innocents to protect us from things that bathe in the blood of innocents and that we're already pretty protected against" just reads again like...bad internet fan fiction. Like the Frodo-Sam love stories that weird chick in 3rd period math would read back in ye old days of high school a decade ago.

Feth me, why is it difficult for people to understand? It is not out of character. It is very IN CHARACTER. Plus, there is no bathing. Read the passage, if you actually have the book.

The Bloodtide would have killed the Grey Knights. They are immune from the spiritual side, not from the physical. Thus, to defeat it, they needed an extra layer of physical protection. To defeat the Warp, the most effective tool is sorcery. The Sisters were there, so they used their pure and innocent blood to enact a ritual, which they ANOINTED their armour with, NOT BATHED IN.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Harkens back to the point I made earlier. People and fine with the Grey Knights using any means necessary to defeat their enemies, until for some reason they actually use any means necessary, in which it then for some reason becomes not fine.

Aside from the fluff, I really dislike every codex he has written (as well as the Daemons army book).

He clearly doesn't have the same sense for internal balance as the other two main writers of the moment (Kelly and Cruddace). And his books seem to lack a kind of creativity lends personality to lists. For him, creativity means an over-the-top special character and random reorganisations of the FoC. First Land Radiers are Heavy, then Dedicated, then Heavy. Stormravens are Heavy then Fast, etc. You just don't get the sense that he has a focused vision.

With GK he has made rules that jeopardize the fun of the game (warp quake, cleansing flamer) in the name of the rule of cool (or his idea of it).
This is all aside from the travesty that is his background fluff.

I really do find it incredible that he is still being given the keys by GW. I feel certain there are hundreds of people in the hobby all over the world who would willingly take his place and do a better job.

TutorialBoss wrote:He clearly doesn't have the same sense for internal balance as the other two main writers of the moment (Kelly and Cruddace). And his books seem to lack a kind of creativity lends personality to lists. For him, creativity means an over-the-top special character and random reorganisations of the FoC. First Land Radiers are Heavy, then Dedicated, then Heavy. Stormravens are Heavy then Fast, etc. You just don't get the sense that he has a focused vision.

You mean like making Scouts Elite (Kelly), Elites Troops (Wolf Guard, Kelly), OTT SC like Canis and Creed(Kelly), etc.

With GK he has made rules that jeopardize the fun of the game (warp quake, cleansing flamer) in the name of the rule of cool (or his idea of it).

JOTWW (Kelly), Vendettas (Cruddace), etc.

Attributing your dislike of what is in the codeci to Ward is just fooling yourself. GW has always added new things, subtracted others and moved things around. It is what they do.

Adding to the fact that his codices are very well balanced internally, and do not ruin the overall balance of 40k, with some admittedly bizarre rules.

Whoohoo! 500 posts on Dakka

iproxtaco wrote:Nah, Nurgle would stay.

And the Grey Knights are infinitely better at fighting Daemons than the Custodes are.

No. They aren't. Custodes are better in every respect, and are even harder to corrupt than GK are. When a GK (Alaric) recieved the collar of khorne, he lost his psychic shield, and became as resistant to corruption as any other space marine. The Custodes are always incorruptible, having spent 13,000 years by the Emperor's side. They also fight daemons literally every day, as the Portal Magnus destroy is an enormous warp-rift that is contained by 300 Custodians. Custodes are bigger, better equipped, fast, stronger, better trained, and more experienced.

GK can [Mod Edit - Whoa! Language, please.]

pretre wrote:

TutorialBoss wrote:He clearly doesn't have the same sense for internal balance as the other two main writers of the moment (Kelly and Cruddace). And his books seem to lack a kind of creativity lends personality to lists. For him, creativity means an over-the-top special character and random reorganisations of the FoC. First Land Radiers are Heavy, then Dedicated, then Heavy. Stormravens are Heavy then Fast, etc. You just don't get the sense that he has a focused vision.

You mean like making Scouts Elite (Kelly), Elites Troops (Wolf Guard, Kelly), OTT SC like Canis and Creed(Kelly), etc.

With GK he has made rules that jeopardize the fun of the game (warp quake, cleansing flamer) in the name of the rule of cool (or his idea of it).

JOTWW (Kelly), Vendettas (Cruddace), etc.

Attributing your dislike of what is in the codeci to Ward is just fooling yourself. GW has always added new things, subtracted others and moved things around. It is what they do.

TO be fair he broke WHFB horribly when he touched the rules for daemons. He also made flying librarian Dreads and BA+NECRON love affair.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mat_Ward#Gallery_of_Disaster

im2randomghgh wrote:TO be fair he broke WHFB horribly when he touched the rules for daemons. He also made flying librarian Dreads and BA+NECRON love affair.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mat_Ward#Gallery_of_Disaster

I don't play fantasy, so can't speak to that.

Great, you're quoting 4chan. That lends great weight to your opinion. BA+Necron love affair is overblown. What's wrong with flying librarian dreads?

pretre wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:TO be fair he broke WHFB horribly when he touched the rules for daemons. He also made flying librarian Dreads and BA+NECRON love affair.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mat_Ward#Gallery_of_Disaster

I don't play fantasy, so can't speak to that.

Great, you're quoting 4chan. That lends great weight to your opinion. BA+Necron love affair is overblown. What's wrong with flying librarian dreads?

What's wrong with flying librarian dreads? Are you kidding? That's like saying what's wrong with making a reaver titan 35 points! It is completely brokenness and utter crap! When you see that blood angels player on the other side of the Table pull out his flying librarian dreadnought just concede defeat and put your models away.

im2randomghgh wrote:What's wrong with flying librarian dreads? Are you kidding? That's like saying what's wrong with making a reaver titan 35 points! It is completely brokenness and utter crap! When you see that blood angels player on the other side of the Table pull out his flying librarian dreadnought just concede defeat and put your models away.

Yeah, hyperbole much?

How is a dread that moves 12" and takes dangerous terrain tests if it passes a psychic test 'completely brokenness and utter crap'? Did you get beaten by a player with one and now you hate them?

Of all the things in the game, that's the one you're going to single out for OMFG BORKEN!!!ONE

/slowclap

pretre wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:What's wrong with flying librarian dreads? Are you kidding? That's like saying what's wrong with making a reaver titan 35 points! It is completely brokenness and utter crap! When you see that blood angels player on the other side of the Table pull out his flying librarian dreadnought just concede defeat and put your models away.

Yeah, hyperbole much?

How is a dread that moves 12" and takes dangerous terrain tests if it passes a psychic test 'completely brokenness and utter crap'? Did you get beaten by a player with one and now you hate them?

Of all the things in the game, that's the one you're going to single out for OMFG BORKEN!!!ONE

/slowclap

Dreads are already hugely powerful. Make it fly and it becomes about 2x deadlier. Then give it psychic powers and you've broken a codex.

They need to fix it. This is worse than that whole "Fish o' Fury" thing.

I think everyone should just settle down. It's a game. This topic is brought up so ofter and it is getting quite annoying. Don't mean to troll, and I know I should just keep my mouth shut instead of griping, but honestly people- IT'S A GAME! Once you get a job at GW, you can write all the fluff you want. You realize that supervisors at GW have to approve the rules and fluff he writes correct? It's not all on him, though a lot of it is.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Dreads are already hugely powerful. Make it fly and it becomes about 2x deadlier. Then give it psychic powers and you've broken a codex.

They need to fix it. This is worse than that whole "Fish o' Fury" thing.

hahahahahaha

Okay, sorry I didn't notice you were pulling my leg until you brought up Fish o' Fury as being broken. I should have known you were joking when you brought up libdreads instead of Meph or Blood Talons, but didn't. Props.