Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Ultramarines should have been destroyed in the heresy and save us aload of trouble.
Tali'Zorah: I appreciate what you're doing here, Shepard.
Commander Shepard: Well, I care deeply about the quarian people.
Tali'Zorah: It's good to be back on the Normandy.
Commander Shepard: Let me know if it's too quiet for you to sleep, and I'll find you someplace louder.
Tali'Zorah: Hmm.
Garrus Vakarian: Uh, I was there when you two had your thing, remember? Just get a room and work it out.
Tali'Zorah: I appreciate what you're doing here, Shepard.
Commander Shepard: Well, I care deeply about the quarian people.
Tali'Zorah: It's good to be back on the Normandy.
Commander Shepard: Let me know if it's too quiet for you to sleep, and I'll find you someplace louder.
Tali'Zorah: Hmm.
Garrus Vakarian: Uh, I was there when you two had your thing, remember? Just get a room and work it out.
Oh, and the Knights of Blood. But they're bad in the best way possible.
Pirate Vampire Counts - WIP
Feastmaster Ogre Kingdoms - WIP
Fire Lords Space Marines - working towards 1500pts
Word Bearers Chaos Space Marines - Modelling project
DR:90+S-G+M+B+I++Pwhfb09#-D+A+/eWD354R+++T(S)DM+
black templar wrote:Ultramarines should have been destroyed in the heresy and save us aload of trouble.
Pray tell, what 'bother' has the Ultramarines caused 'us'?
What trouble? Every space marine video game (save dawn of war thank the gods) and other spin off has been about these vanilla unisteresting jerk offs who, despite being the face of the franchise, totally fail to emphasize the awsome baroque/grimdark/faux-medieval gothicness of the 40k setting to people who are new to it.
A person who's never seen anything involving 40k before who see's something involing the ultramarines is just going to think "Oh blue super soldiers, guess this is just some sci-fi thing." and that's a shame, especially if the product had involved any of a number of other chapters (Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, Silver skulls, Imperial Fists, hell thell the list goes on and on) that really bring that touch of the medieval that so defines the setting.
That's why the Ultramarines can suck start their bolters for all I care.
(Also pardon the spelling/gramar as I wrote this at work- work being a patrol car)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/20 21:16:37
To be fair, I always thought the Ultras catch a lot of undeserved flak simply because they were the first and they're perceived as the "standard" ("vanilla") - but someone 's gotta be, right?
It's not that they have no defining features. In fact, the strict, even dogmatic adherence to the Codex is very much an identifying aspect in itself. They would not even have needed this Roman image that GW is trying to pin onto them now after decades of being fine without.
It's just that compared to certain other Chapters they do not appear to be as "SPESHUL". It's all very subjective, obviously. Some may think they not "cool/badass/snowflake enough". I think, for me personally, it is precisely this what makes them look better, as by being more "down to earth" they also seem to fit in better.
That said, there's certainly many Chapters in-between the extremes - it's really not as if the Ultras are the only ones I'd deem fitting. That said, most of the other "non-snowflake" Chapters seem to carve out their existence in the background, only played by few enthusiasts. I daresay the Ultras were only so popular because they were pretty much the poster boys for 40k for so many years, but by now the focus seems to shift.
As for the video games, I kinda agree, but then again we could just as well complain that almost all video games focus on Space Marines regardless of Chapter.
And for what it's worth, DoW by far isn't the only exception. Blood Angels and Dark Angels starred in the Space Hulk games, and the upcoming MMO will feature the Black Templars.
Salamanders-No, they couldn't just have someone with a dark skin color! They had to have their skin LITERALLY BURNT BLACK by the sun! Yeah, that's pretty stupid. However, the rest of their fluff is good and stuff to distinguish them from other Chapters, so they aren't the worst.
Blood Angels-Alright, every Loyalist Primarch has died, yet this is the only Chapter who went emo as a result. The explanation behind it is generally vague and poorly thought out, but to be honest that can be said about a lot of things in 40k. This is their defining trait, so that makes them a candidate for worst Chapter, but it isn't too bad so they're a Dark House.
Ultramarines-These guys were built off of a fine concept; mostly generic Marines with a Roman Theme. But they made them into ultra Mary Sues. I can't think of a single time they suffered a major defeat and didn't still win whatever war/overall battle they were in. Hell, I can only think of a single defeat they had. Due to this, they're a strong candidate for worst Chapter.
Space Sharks and Rainbow Warriors-Alright, these names are terrible. However, they are so over the top and were down that way on purpose so that I don't think the names are actually that bad. As a result they aren't a contender, but they easily could've been.
Space Wolves-I've explained earlier that they're hipsters. I don't feel like explaining it again, but I'm sure I'll do it if someone asks. In addition, they use the word "Wolf" way too much. This puts them as a strong contender alongside the Ultramarines.
Hawk Lords-Even Slaanesh worshippers aren't allowed to have a colorscheme this bad. However, they have no bad fluff, so they're only a moderate contender.
Grey Knights-Similar to the Ultramarines, they were built on a fine concept and were indeed done well for awhile, but with their recent Codex they've strayed into Mary Sue territories. These guys are a strong contender aswell.
Doom Eagles-They're like the Rainbow Warriors, except their name wasn't a satire on terrible names. It actually was a terrible name. But that's their only flaw, making these guys a weak contender.
Mantis Warriors, Lamenters and Executioners-Heretics are never let off. Yeah, I know they were treated badly, but normally the Imperium would've obilterated them and then obilterated the dust. Thus these three Chapters are a moderate contender.
Dark Angels-Used to be good, but their secret is stupid and uncreative at all. Woop de doo, some of your Chapter fell to Chaos, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE ACCEPT THE GREY KNIGHTS. You aren't unique. Having their defining thing be something stupid makes the Dark Angels a strong contender. And the winner is....
Spoiler:
My own fanmade Chapter I made when I first started playing 40k. Mary Sue, Unoriginal and Terrible Color Scheme all in one. It was years ago, so hopefully I'm better now. Hopefully.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/20 22:41:27
LoneLictor wrote:Dark Angels-Used to be good, but their secret is stupid and uncreative at all. Woop de doo, some of your Chapter fell to Chaos, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE ACCEPT THE GREY KNIGHTS. You aren't unique. Having their defining thing be something stupid makes the Dark Angels a strong contender.
Not true. No other loyalist legion has had any documented case of Marines siding with traitors. Traitor legions had marines remain loyalist, but the Dark Angels were the only loyal legion that had marines turn traitor, which could, and would in the current timeline, be seen as a severe geneseed flaw by the High Lords. Hence, they keep it a secret and try to hunt down the remaining traitors.
I tried being normal but it's boring so now I'm back to being insane
http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/adoptables/10375-flamminggaunt.htm
Level up Adoptable!
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Many chapters have fallen to chaos.
You missed the point about them being the only loyal legion to have members turn traitor during the heresy. All of the other loyal legions were loyal to a man, but not the Dark Angels. It's their dirty secret, being the only first founding loyal legion to have harboured traitors during those times.
And with all secrets, it gets worse the longer you keep it. Having known, and not spoken about, having had traitors in their legion at the time of the heresy sounds really bad for a first founding legion.
I'm not a Dark Angels fan by any stretch, but that part of their story is pretty unique among the firsst founding legions.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/09/21 06:14:54
sorry just tying to keep it simple I should've elaborated more.
I tried being normal but it's boring so now I'm back to being insane
http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/adoptables/10375-flamminggaunt.htm
Level up Adoptable!
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Many chapters have fallen to chaos.
You missed the point about them being the only loyal legion to have members turn traitor during the heresy. All of the other loyal legions were loyal to a man, but not the Dark Angels. It's their dirty secret, being the only first founding loyal legion to have harboured traitors during those times.
And with all secrets, it gets worse the longer you keep it. Having known, and not spoken about, having had traitors in their legion at the time of the heresy sounds really bad for a first founding legion.
I'm not a Dark Angels fan by any stretch, but that part of their story is pretty unique among the firsst founding legions.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Many chapters have fallen to chaos.
You missed the point about them being the only loyal legion to have members turn traitor during the heresy. All of the other loyal legions were loyal to a man, but not the Dark Angels. It's their dirty secret, being the only first founding loyal legion to have harboured traitors during those times.
And with all secrets, it gets worse the longer you keep it. Having known, and not spoken about, having had traitors in their legion at the time of the heresy sounds really bad for a first founding legion.
I'm not a Dark Angels fan by any stretch, but that part of their story is pretty unique among the firsst founding legions.
But eventually every Chapter (which were created from the Legions) has had Traitors. At this point every single loyalist Chapter/former Legion has had Traitors, yet the Dark Angels still cry 'bout it and refuse to admit it. In addition that's their defining character trait; they've had Traitors. They're secret should've been better; maybe something about their Primarch or the C'tan or who knows what, but in anycase it should've been better.
"NO I DONT HAVE TRATORS!"
"It's okay, everyone has had Traitors at one point. Its not your fault."
"NO NONO! I NEVR HAD TRATORS AND NEVR WILL! IM JUST CRYING FOR NO REASON! THATS ALL!"
black templar wrote:Ultramarines should have been destroyed in the heresy and save us aload of trouble.
Pray tell, what 'bother' has the Ultramarines caused 'us'?
What trouble? Every space marine video game (save dawn of war thank the gods) and other spin off has been about these vanilla unisteresting jerk offs who, despite being the face of the franchise, totally fail to emphasize the awsome baroque/grimdark/faux-medieval gothicness of the 40k setting to people who are new to it.
A person who's never seen anything involving 40k before who see's something involing the ultramarines is just going to think "Oh blue super soldiers, guess this is just some sci-fi thing." and that's a shame, especially if the product had involved any of a number of other chapters (Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, Silver skulls, Imperial Fists, hell thell the list goes on and on) that really bring that touch of the medieval that so defines the setting.
That's why the Ultramarines can suck start their bolters for all I care.
(Also pardon the spelling/gramar as I wrote this at work- work being a patrol car)
40k draws upon a ton of different sources. I personally find the baroque/gothic/psuedo-medieval stuff to be the least interesting. The style of rogue trader was much more sci-fi and with a touch of cyber-punk. Personally I find the barbarian, sci-fi and WWII inspired units the most entertaining. Smurfs might be pretty boring but they do serve as being pretty middle of the road for a universe that sways to a lot of extremes.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Many chapters have fallen to chaos.
You missed the point about them being the only loyal legion to have members turn traitor during the heresy. All of the other loyal legions were loyal to a man, but not the Dark Angels. It's their dirty secret, being the only first founding loyal legion to have harboured traitors during those times.
And with all secrets, it gets worse the longer you keep it. Having known, and not spoken about, having had traitors in their legion at the time of the heresy sounds really bad for a first founding legion.
I'm not a Dark Angels fan by any stretch, but that part of their story is pretty unique among the firsst founding legions.
Yet the Space Wolves harbored traitors far more recently, considering how many of them defected to the Red Corsairs.
The splint among the Dark Angels was all the Lion's fault, anyway. That guy was a dumbass.
worst chapter hmmm....Astral Claws for me...bastards turned traitor after being somewhat of a note worthy chapter.
Its what we do best. We die standing
"The Gods of Chaos are just like real human emotions, I mean when your Khorne your angry, when your Nurgle your sick, when your Slaanesh your horney, and when your Tzeench....YOUR SHOOTING DOOMBOLTS OUT OF YOUR HANDS...
LoneLictor wrote:Hrmm, worst Space Marine Chapter. Let's see.
Salamanders-No, they couldn't just have someone with a dark skin color! They had to have their skin LITERALLY BURNT BLACK by the sun! Yeah, that's pretty stupid. However, the rest of their fluff is good and stuff to distinguish them from other Chapters, so they aren't the worst.
Blood Angels-Alright, every Loyalist Primarch has died, yet this is the only Chapter who went emo as a result. The explanation behind it is generally vague and poorly thought out, but to be honest that can be said about a lot of things in 40k. This is their defining trait, so that makes them a candidate for worst Chapter, but it isn't too bad so they're a Dark House.
Ultramarines-These guys were built off of a fine concept; mostly generic Marines with a Roman Theme. But they made them into ultra Mary Sues. I can't think of a single time they suffered a major defeat and didn't still win whatever war/overall battle they were in. Hell, I can only think of a single defeat they had. Due to this, they're a strong candidate for worst Chapter.
Space Sharks and Rainbow Warriors-Alright, these names are terrible. However, they are so over the top and were down that way on purpose so that I don't think the names are actually that bad. As a result they aren't a contender, but they easily could've been.
Space Wolves-I've explained earlier that they're hipsters. I don't feel like explaining it again, but I'm sure I'll do it if someone asks. In addition, they use the word "Wolf" way too much. This puts them as a strong contender alongside the Ultramarines.
Hawk Lords-Even Slaanesh worshippers aren't allowed to have a colorscheme this bad. However, they have no bad fluff, so they're only a moderate contender.
Grey Knights-Similar to the Ultramarines, they were built on a fine concept and were indeed done well for awhile, but with their recent Codex they've strayed into Mary Sue territories. These guys are a strong contender aswell.
Doom Eagles-They're like the Rainbow Warriors, except their name wasn't a satire on terrible names. It actually was a terrible name. But that's their only flaw, making these guys a weak contender.
Mantis Warriors, Lamenters and Executioners-Heretics are never let off. Yeah, I know they were treated badly, but normally the Imperium would've obilterated them and then obilterated the dust. Thus these three Chapters are a moderate contender.
Dark Angels-Used to be good, but their secret is stupid and uncreative at all. Woop de doo, some of your Chapter fell to Chaos, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE ACCEPT THE GREY KNIGHTS. You aren't unique. Having their defining thing be something stupid makes the Dark Angels a strong contender. And the winner is....
Spoiler:
My own fanmade Chapter I made when I first started playing 40k. Mary Sue, Unoriginal and Terrible Color Scheme all in one. It was years ago, so hopefully I'm better now. Hopefully.
In the Blood Angels defense, they don't choose to be emo like DA. The Rage is caused by a psychic backlash from Sanguinus's death. They are actually proud of their primarch's death as the chink in the armor story goes.
Omegus wrote:Yet the Space Wolves harbored traitors far more recently, considering how many of them defected to the Red Corsairs.
The splint among the Dark Angels was all the Lion's fault, anyway. That guy was a dumbass.
Still missing the point. Lots of Marines turn traitor at this point in the 40k history.
During the Heresy, the Dark Angels were the only loyal legion to have traitors amongst them. They kept that hidden from their brothers, and the Imperium, and have done so for 10,000 years. Knowing there were traitors in the legion would have brought about a lot of distrust towards at the time of the Heresy, possibly even excommunication. At that point the Imperium wasn't really looking to play nice with people suspected of heresy. After keeping the secret for 10,000 years, it just makes it look like they have even more to hide from the outside.
Damn it -Loki- i just wasted my time looking for info you literally just posted
well i was going to say that anyone who thinks the Dark Angels are just crybaby little emos hasn't really read anything about them...
From Lexicanum, its kinda long so as a courtesy
Spoiler:
The Great Betrayal
The Dark Angels returned to Caliban after the war, but they were fired upon by the planetary defences. They were forced to assault their own homeworld, where they found that their brethren had betrayed them. In a duel which mirrored that of the Emperor and Horus, Luther and Lion El'Jonson fought, resulting in Luther mortally wounding his former friend. Luther went insane upon realizing he had struck down his close friend and was captured. In a fit of rage at being defeated once again, the Chaos Gods opened a warp rift in the planet which scattered the traitorous "Fallen Angels" throughout the galaxy.1 One of the "Fallen Angels" who escaped is Cypher, who reportedly took with him the Lion Blade, the sword of El'Jonson, when he was sent through the warp.
The Dark Angel space fleet also bombarded the planet mercilessly, and this caused the structure of the planet to collapse. The bombardment, combined with the newly formed warp rift, broke the planet up and it is now an asteroid field.
This betrayal has tainted their honour in the eyes of the Dark Angels themselves. Given that the event was purely within the Legion itself, and was on a world far from Terra, nobody outside of the Legion knows it occurred. Within the Chapters itself, only the elite veterans are permitted this knowledge - in the modern Dark Angels Chapter, only the Deathwing and senior officers know this secret. The Chapter leadership will go to great lengths to ensure that this knowledge does not reach the Imperium at large, even at times going so far as to disobey direct orders from Inquisitors and cause overly curious individuals to "disappear".
Only the most senior members, known as the Inner Circle, know the greatest secret - that Luther, the great traitor, is still alive and insane, living in a cell deep within the Rock. Lion El'Jonson's body was supposedly never found; Luther claims, in his near-senseless mutterings, that the Lion is near and will return and forgive him. The Lion actually sleeps in the most secret chamber in the rock, his presence known only by the Watchers in the Dark and the Emperor himself, until the time he will awaken and lead his chapter on a new and even greater crusade.
Controversy of 'The Great Betrayal'
In the novel 'Angels of Darkness' by Gav Thorpe, a different version of the events of Caliban is presented. Here it is presented that a Terran Dark Angels 'Chapter Master Astelan' is the one that ordered the planetary defenses to shoot at the returning Dark Angels. This terrible truth is uncovered by the Dark Angels Chaplain Boreas.
This controversy is furthermore reinforced in the novel 'Fallen Angels' by Mike Lee, where Luther is portrayed as the 'savior of Caliban', the betrayal is pictured as a liberation from the empire for the sake of Caliban. Furthermore Astelan is put in charge of Caliban's entire defense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/22 00:40:15
Joetaco wrote:Damn it -Loki- i just wasted my time looking for info you literally just posted
well i was going to say that anyone who thinks the Dark Angels are just crybaby little emos hasn't really read anything about them...
From Lexicanum, its kinda long so as a courtesy
Spoiler:
The Great Betrayal
The Dark Angels returned to Caliban after the war, but they were fired upon by the planetary defences. They were forced to assault their own homeworld, where they found that their brethren had betrayed them. In a duel which mirrored that of the Emperor and Horus, Luther and Lion El'Jonson fought, resulting in Luther mortally wounding his former friend. Luther went insane upon realizing he had struck down his close friend and was captured. In a fit of rage at being defeated once again, the Chaos Gods opened a warp rift in the planet which scattered the traitorous "Fallen Angels" throughout the galaxy.1 One of the "Fallen Angels" who escaped is Cypher, who reportedly took with him the Lion Blade, the sword of El'Jonson, when he was sent through the warp.
The Dark Angel space fleet also bombarded the planet mercilessly, and this caused the structure of the planet to collapse. The bombardment, combined with the newly formed warp rift, broke the planet up and it is now an asteroid field.
This betrayal has tainted their honour in the eyes of the Dark Angels themselves. Given that the event was purely within the Legion itself, and was on a world far from Terra, nobody outside of the Legion knows it occurred. Within the Chapters itself, only the elite veterans are permitted this knowledge - in the modern Dark Angels Chapter, only the Deathwing and senior officers know this secret. The Chapter leadership will go to great lengths to ensure that this knowledge does not reach the Imperium at large, even at times going so far as to disobey direct orders from Inquisitors and cause overly curious individuals to "disappear".
Only the most senior members, known as the Inner Circle, know the greatest secret - that Luther, the great traitor, is still alive and insane, living in a cell deep within the Rock. Lion El'Jonson's body was supposedly never found; Luther claims, in his near-senseless mutterings, that the Lion is near and will return and forgive him. The Lion actually sleeps in the most secret chamber in the rock, his presence known only by the Watchers in the Dark and the Emperor himself, until the time he will awaken and lead his chapter on a new and even greater crusade.
Controversy of 'The Great Betrayal'
In the novel 'Angels of Darkness' by Gav Thorpe, a different version of the events of Caliban is presented. Here it is presented that a Terran Dark Angels 'Chapter Master Astelan' is the one that ordered the planetary defenses to shoot at the returning Dark Angels. This terrible truth is uncovered by the Dark Angels Chaplain Boreas.
This controversy is furthermore reinforced in the novel 'Fallen Angels' by Mike Lee, where Luther is portrayed as the 'savior of Caliban', the betrayal is pictured as a liberation from the empire for the sake of Caliban. Furthermore Astelan is put in charge of Caliban's entire defense.
None of this contradicted the cry baby feel I get from them, in fact most of it is the information that makes me think they are cry babies.
Joetaco wrote:Damn it -Loki- i just wasted my time looking for info you literally just posted
well i was going to say that anyone who thinks the Dark Angels are just crybaby little emos hasn't really read anything about them...
From Lexicanum, its kinda long so as a courtesy
Spoiler:
The Great Betrayal
The Dark Angels returned to Caliban after the war, but they were fired upon by the planetary defences. They were forced to assault their own homeworld, where they found that their brethren had betrayed them. In a duel which mirrored that of the Emperor and Horus, Luther and Lion El'Jonson fought, resulting in Luther mortally wounding his former friend. Luther went insane upon realizing he had struck down his close friend and was captured. In a fit of rage at being defeated once again, the Chaos Gods opened a warp rift in the planet which scattered the traitorous "Fallen Angels" throughout the galaxy.1 One of the "Fallen Angels" who escaped is Cypher, who reportedly took with him the Lion Blade, the sword of El'Jonson, when he was sent through the warp.
The Dark Angel space fleet also bombarded the planet mercilessly, and this caused the structure of the planet to collapse. The bombardment, combined with the newly formed warp rift, broke the planet up and it is now an asteroid field.
This betrayal has tainted their honour in the eyes of the Dark Angels themselves. Given that the event was purely within the Legion itself, and was on a world far from Terra, nobody outside of the Legion knows it occurred. Within the Chapters itself, only the elite veterans are permitted this knowledge - in the modern Dark Angels Chapter, only the Deathwing and senior officers know this secret. The Chapter leadership will go to great lengths to ensure that this knowledge does not reach the Imperium at large, even at times going so far as to disobey direct orders from Inquisitors and cause overly curious individuals to "disappear".
Only the most senior members, known as the Inner Circle, know the greatest secret - that Luther, the great traitor, is still alive and insane, living in a cell deep within the Rock. Lion El'Jonson's body was supposedly never found; Luther claims, in his near-senseless mutterings, that the Lion is near and will return and forgive him. The Lion actually sleeps in the most secret chamber in the rock, his presence known only by the Watchers in the Dark and the Emperor himself, until the time he will awaken and lead his chapter on a new and even greater crusade.
Controversy of 'The Great Betrayal'
In the novel 'Angels of Darkness' by Gav Thorpe, a different version of the events of Caliban is presented. Here it is presented that a Terran Dark Angels 'Chapter Master Astelan' is the one that ordered the planetary defenses to shoot at the returning Dark Angels. This terrible truth is uncovered by the Dark Angels Chaplain Boreas.
This controversy is furthermore reinforced in the novel 'Fallen Angels' by Mike Lee, where Luther is portrayed as the 'savior of Caliban', the betrayal is pictured as a liberation from the empire for the sake of Caliban. Furthermore Astelan is put in charge of Caliban's entire defense.
None of this contradicted the cry baby feel I get from them, in fact most of it is the information that makes me think they are cry babies.
They're keeping Luther one of the biggest traitors alive that's a pretty big secret, and you know a little heretical.
I tried being normal but it's boring so now I'm back to being insane
http://www.heresy-online.net/daemons/adoptables/10375-flamminggaunt.htm
Level up Adoptable!
black templar wrote:Ultramarines should have been destroyed in the heresy and save us aload of trouble.
Pray tell, what 'bother' has the Ultramarines caused 'us'?
What trouble? Every space marine video game (save dawn of war thank the gods) and other spin off has been about these vanilla unisteresting jerk offs who, despite being the face of the franchise, totally fail to emphasize the awsome baroque/grimdark/faux-medieval gothicness of the 40k setting to people who are new to it.
A person who's never seen anything involving 40k before who see's something involing the ultramarines is just going to think "Oh blue super soldiers, guess this is just some sci-fi thing." and that's a shame, especially if the product had involved any of a number of other chapters (Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, Silver skulls, Imperial Fists, hell thell the list goes on and on) that really bring that touch of the medieval that so defines the setting.
That's why the Ultramarines can suck start their bolters for all I care.
(Also pardon the spelling/gramar as I wrote this at work- work being a patrol car)
They've been in Space Marine, which has placed 40k as it should be into the mainstream, and the Ultramarines movie, which was a failure. So that's two spin offs, a major success and a failure.
black templar wrote:Ultramarines should have been destroyed in the heresy and save us aload of trouble.
Pray tell, what 'bother' has the Ultramarines caused 'us'?
What trouble? Every space marine video game (save dawn of war thank the gods) and other spin off has been about these vanilla unisteresting jerk offs who, despite being the face of the franchise, totally fail to emphasize the awsome baroque/grimdark/faux-medieval gothicness of the 40k setting to people who are new to it.
A person who's never seen anything involving 40k before who see's something involing the ultramarines is just going to think "Oh blue super soldiers, guess this is just some sci-fi thing." and that's a shame, especially if the product had involved any of a number of other chapters (Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, Silver skulls, Imperial Fists, hell thell the list goes on and on) that really bring that touch of the medieval that so defines the setting.
That's why the Ultramarines can suck start their bolters for all I care.
(Also pardon the spelling/gramar as I wrote this at work- work being a patrol car)
They've been in Space Marine, which has placed 40k as it should be into the mainstream, and the Ultramarines movie, which was a failure. So that's two spin offs, a major success and a failure.
BLUHD REHVENS and Black Templar made cameos in SPESS MEHREEN. Imperial Fists made cameos in ULTRAMEHREENS. And honestly, their portrayal in both works is pretty spot on re: Space Marines as warrior monks as opposed to generic supersoldiers.
Joetaco wrote:Damn it -Loki- i just wasted my time looking for info you literally just posted
well i was going to say that anyone who thinks the Dark Angels are just crybaby little emos hasn't really read anything about them...
From Lexicanum, its kinda long so as a courtesy
Spoiler:
The Great Betrayal
The Dark Angels returned to Caliban after the war, but they were fired upon by the planetary defences. They were forced to assault their own homeworld, where they found that their brethren had betrayed them. In a duel which mirrored that of the Emperor and Horus, Luther and Lion El'Jonson fought, resulting in Luther mortally wounding his former friend. Luther went insane upon realizing he had struck down his close friend and was captured. In a fit of rage at being defeated once again, the Chaos Gods opened a warp rift in the planet which scattered the traitorous "Fallen Angels" throughout the galaxy.1 One of the "Fallen Angels" who escaped is Cypher, who reportedly took with him the Lion Blade, the sword of El'Jonson, when he was sent through the warp.
The Dark Angel space fleet also bombarded the planet mercilessly, and this caused the structure of the planet to collapse. The bombardment, combined with the newly formed warp rift, broke the planet up and it is now an asteroid field.
This betrayal has tainted their honour in the eyes of the Dark Angels themselves. Given that the event was purely within the Legion itself, and was on a world far from Terra, nobody outside of the Legion knows it occurred. Within the Chapters itself, only the elite veterans are permitted this knowledge - in the modern Dark Angels Chapter, only the Deathwing and senior officers know this secret. The Chapter leadership will go to great lengths to ensure that this knowledge does not reach the Imperium at large, even at times going so far as to disobey direct orders from Inquisitors and cause overly curious individuals to "disappear".
Only the most senior members, known as the Inner Circle, know the greatest secret - that Luther, the great traitor, is still alive and insane, living in a cell deep within the Rock. Lion El'Jonson's body was supposedly never found; Luther claims, in his near-senseless mutterings, that the Lion is near and will return and forgive him. The Lion actually sleeps in the most secret chamber in the rock, his presence known only by the Watchers in the Dark and the Emperor himself, until the time he will awaken and lead his chapter on a new and even greater crusade.
Controversy of 'The Great Betrayal'
In the novel 'Angels of Darkness' by Gav Thorpe, a different version of the events of Caliban is presented. Here it is presented that a Terran Dark Angels 'Chapter Master Astelan' is the one that ordered the planetary defenses to shoot at the returning Dark Angels. This terrible truth is uncovered by the Dark Angels Chaplain Boreas.
This controversy is furthermore reinforced in the novel 'Fallen Angels' by Mike Lee, where Luther is portrayed as the 'savior of Caliban', the betrayal is pictured as a liberation from the empire for the sake of Caliban. Furthermore Astelan is put in charge of Caliban's entire defense.
None of this contradicted the cry baby feel I get from them, in fact most of it is the information that makes me think they are cry babies.
They're keeping Luther one of the biggest traitors alive that's a pretty big secret, and you know a little heretical.
They're keeping him alive to be interrogated and tortured every few years they wake him up. The Inquisition does this all the time. Even from you point of view that is still redeemable, or could have been fixed long ago and very easily instead of being all sad and secretive about it.
LoneLictor wrote:Hrmm, worst Space Marine Chapter. Let's see.
Salamanders-No, they couldn't just have someone with a dark skin color! They had to have their skin LITERALLY BURNT BLACK by the sun! Yeah, that's pretty stupid. However, the rest of their fluff is good and stuff to distinguish them from other Chapters, so they aren't the worst.
That makes them badass, they have grown a mutation that basically makes them badasses. I love the Salamanders You cannot deny the awesome within them
Blood Angels-Alright, every Loyalist Primarch has died, yet this is the only Chapter who went emo as a result. The explanation behind it is generally vague and poorly thought out, but to be honest that can be said about a lot of things in 40k. This is their defining trait, so that makes them a candidate for worst Chapter, but it isn't too bad so they're a Dark House.
Agreed, except it is the Vampires in space that makes me dislike them. I like them when they were better
Ultramarines-These guys were built off of a fine concept; mostly generic Marines with a Roman Theme. But they made them into ultra Mary Sues. I can't think of a single time they suffered a major defeat and didn't still win whatever war/overall battle they were in. Hell, I can only think of a single defeat they had. Due to this, they're a strong candidate for worst Chapter.
Agreed
Space Sharks and Rainbow Warriors-Alright, these names are terrible. However, they are so over the top and were down that way on purpose so that I don't think the names are actually that bad. As a result they aren't a contender, but they easily could've been.
Correction they are now called the Carcharodons (which if translated correctly = massive shark) Rainbow warriors were annihalted and don't exist anymore so they aren't a contender.
Space Wolves-I've explained earlier that they're hipsters. I don't feel like explaining it again, but I'm sure I'll do it if someone asks. In addition, they use the word "Wolf" way too much. This puts them as a strong contender alongside the Ultramarines.
The only real attraction to the Space Wolves was when they were vikings, not wolves.
Hawk Lords-Even Slaanesh worshippers aren't allowed to have a colorscheme this bad. However, they have no bad fluff, so they're only a moderate contender.
Grey Knights-Similar to the Ultramarines, they were built on a fine concept and were indeed done well for awhile, but with their recent Codex they've strayed into Mary Sue territories. These guys are a strong contender aswell.
agreed
Doom Eagles-They're like the Rainbow Warriors, except their name wasn't a satire on terrible names. It actually was a terrible name. But that's their only flaw, making these guys a weak contender.
Thats now why people dislike them .It is because they are truely the most emo chapter ever...
Mantis Warriors, Lamenters and Executioners-Heretics are never let off. Yeah, I know they were treated badly, but normally the Imperium would've obilterated them and then obilterated the dust. Thus these three Chapters are a moderate contender.
Those chapters are really good. Executioners redeemed themselves and killed alot of astral claws, and were given less punishment because they helped the salamanders out big time.
Dark Angels-Used to be good, but their secret is stupid and uncreative at all. Woop de doo, some of your Chapter fell to Chaos, SO DID EVERYONE ELSE ACCEPT THE GREY KNIGHTS. You aren't unique. Having their defining thing be something stupid makes the Dark Angels a strong contender. And the winner is....
yup Agreed. Color scheme = ftw though.
Spoiler:
My own fanmade Chapter I made when I first started playing 40k. Mary Sue, Unoriginal and Terrible Color Scheme all in one. It was years ago, so hopefully I'm better now. Hopefully.
I have seen alot worse trust me. At my store some kid made a copy and paste Space Marine chapter that had the ultramarines as their main best buddies, their chapter symbol was poke-a-dots, and they had pink shoulder pads and their chapter master had dual thunder hammers and wings, and a terminator helmet for a head.... Mary Sues..... To the MAX! They had yet to lose a battle, and they won ever battle they went to and they have been around since the great crusades. arghhhh. Now that is a bad chapter not to make fun of the kid, but he kept calling my chapter slowed. But anyway i have proven my point the worst chapters are the Blood Angels and the Death Knights.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/09/23 01:19:00
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Pirate Vampire Counts - WIP
Feastmaster Ogre Kingdoms - WIP
Fire Lords Space Marines - working towards 1500pts
Word Bearers Chaos Space Marines - Modelling project
Fluff for the Fluff God! 
Cadian 901st "Rust Dogs" (1850)
Emperor's Crusaders (585)
