Switch Theme:

Chaos needs a lot of work.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Chaos needing to pay CP for their vehicles and GW refusing to FAQ them to +1 wounds is the biggest thing turning me off right now.
I had a lot of fun up to pre-thousand sons with my Night lords but now that i've tasted the glory of marines not dying to incidental firepower, i dont think i can go back to NL until the codex is out

Admech Lucius
Drukhari
Craftworld Yme-Loc
Thousand sons
Tzeentch Demons
Slaanesh Demons
Night Lords
Imperial knights

 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

Now I don't play Chaos, but i'd love to see some kind of 'Winds of Chaos' mechanic, selected turn by turn, which provide army-wide buffs on the turn they are active, with improved buffs for CORE units, or units keyed to a particular god....or maybe units with appropriate chaos marks? I don't know however what exactly these buffs could entail.

So, for a 5 turn game you get...
Undivided
Khorne
Tzeentch
Slaanesh
Nurgle

Then, throw in additional wounds on the models that have been needing it.

I think that Chaos should be deadlier in melee than Loyalists, and be more powerful in the psychic phase, while being.....slightly above average in shooting, which is probably about where they are... Just need to elevate the dex to 9th edition otherwise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/14 18:53:25


Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in ca
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 iGuy91 wrote:
Now I don't play Chaos, but i'd love to see some kind of 'Winds of Chaos' mechanic, selected turn by turn, which provide army-wide buffs on the turn they are active, with improved buffs for CORE units, or units keyed to a particular god....or maybe units with appropriate chaos marks? I don't know however what exactly these buffs could entail.

So, for a 5 turn game you get...
Undivided
Khorne
Tzeentch
Slaanesh
Nurgle

Then, throw in additional wounds on the models that have been needing it.

I think that Chaos should be deadlier in melee than Loyalists, and be more powerful in the psychic phase, while being.....slightly above average in shooting, which is probably about where they are... Just need to elevate the dex to 9th edition otherwise.


I'm not a fan of weird rules like that tbh, i'd rather we get our wounds and marks that actually do something.

Admech Lucius
Drukhari
Craftworld Yme-Loc
Thousand sons
Tzeentch Demons
Slaanesh Demons
Night Lords
Imperial knights

 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






On potential rules, I’m once again gonna delve into the wonderful rules of 2nd edition Epic Space Marine.

There, Chaos would receive bonuses if they were up on VPs. Being behind reverted you to your standard profile.

It basically represented the favour of the Gods. Whilst the exact mechanic would need transposing and translation (in Epic, both players raced to a target VP total. Objectives gave 5 VP whilst you held them, so scores would fluctuate)

But I think something could be adapted. Perhaps bonuses to Prayers and Psychic Powers, or perhaps additional CPs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or….and I know this might prove controversial…..

A chart you roll on each turn, which generates an optional Secondary Objective, representing the whims of the Gods?

The rewards needn’t be especially high, as I don’t envisage them replacing your existing Secondaries in any way, but being relatively random ways to bag some extra VPs? So not something you can necessarily plan around, but can absolutely exploit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/14 19:40:45


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

Table wrote:
Not be caustic, but its cute that you guys think Worldeaters and Emps Children are getting books in the next few years (if ever). People have been wish listing it since KDK. Has yet to happen and wont imho, not anytime soon at least.


You know Thousand Sons and Death Guard have received releases/books in the time since KDK was first brought out........right?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A chart you roll on each turn, which generates an optional Secondary Objective, representing the whims of the Gods?

The rewards needn’t be especially high, as I don’t envisage them replacing your existing Secondaries in any way, but being relatively random ways to bag some extra VPs? So not something you can necessarily plan around, but can absolutely exploit.


How exactly would a system like this work in a game where the amount of VPs you can accumulate are strictly capped?

Would really prefer to avoid random nonsense like this.

Emperor's Children
The Fourth Seal
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And sure, I assumed too much
 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

A system similar to the AoS Battle Tactics for Chaos would be fun.

(For those unaware: beginning of your turn pick from a short list of things to accomplish. If you succeed 2 VP. If you fail nothing and you can't try that one again)

It feels thematic to have Chaos characters be able to choose to seek the attention of their gods through specific acts.

It doesn't have to be VP. It could be stat/ability unlocks or restoring wounds etc.

Can have a set of punishments if they fail in their efforts but I'd hope the rewards would be quite strong if they went this way
(Unlike the recent trend of daemonic rewards being roughly analogous to other races options but with added punishments for "flavour")

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/14 21:46:28


 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Ugh. No random nonsense please. And no "vying for the Gods attention" stuff unless it's optional. Just like Champion of Chaos and the Chaos Boon Table, that stuff is about as fluffy as a cement block for Night Lords. If I wanted to play a bunch of religious nuts I'd have chosen Word Bearers or Black Templars back in the day.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Since we're seeing factions with more and more layered rules, I think they absolutely could do something more. Give us Legion rules, yes, but then also let us choose "Favored God". So, different keywords will change based on which "Favored God" you follow. Pick Slaanesh and get Noise Marines as troops, for a start. Pick Nurgle and you can make a Death Guard detachment with less of a CP penalty, for another thing they could do.

or take "Undivided" and get Terminators as troops, or something.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I'd rather just have Marks that do something...

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd rather just have Marks that do something...

Agreed. And "something" means more than access to a single stratagem and psychic power, or just +1 to a single stat. For reference, please see: Chaos Space Marines 3.5: The Books of Chaos. Marks should do that.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Something something there's no way they'll ever let you take Lords of War like Baneblades in 40k...

Pepperidge Farm Remembers.


Must be pretty oldschool for this. They made rules for Baneblades in standard games all the way back in 3rd edition from memory.
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





Jarms48 wrote:
Something something there's no way they'll ever let you take Lords of War like Baneblades in 40k...

Pepperidge Farm Remembers.


Must be pretty oldschool for this. They made rules for Baneblades in standard games all the way back in 3rd edition from memory.
Yes but they like Special Characters required your opponents permission to field at the time. It was never an assumed thing at the time.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Jarms48 wrote:
Something something there's no way they'll ever let you take Lords of War like Baneblades in 40k...

Pepperidge Farm Remembers.


Must be pretty oldschool for this. They made rules for Baneblades in standard games all the way back in 3rd edition from memory.
Yes but they like Special Characters required your opponents permission to field at the time. It was never an assumed thing at the time.


Correct. It wasn't until like... 5th edition or 6th edition that they introduced the idea of taking Baneblades in a Matched Play sort of list and had a slot for it in the Force Organization Chart.

Oh the raging at the time was sublime. You had the camp split between people that just wanted to play with Baneblades, and grognards that thought it would be the thing that finally kills GW.

Now here we are, with Baneblades that few competitive players would even consider taking since they're just so bad on the table.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Agreed. And "something" means more than access to a single stratagem and psychic power, or just +1 to a single stat. For reference, please see: Chaos Space Marines 3.5: The Books of Chaos. Marks should do that.
Here's a hypothetical then:

Marks of Chaos vs Cult Troops

1. Cult Troops are just CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark. They are one and the same. For example, give a Mark of Khorne to a Chaos Marine, he's now a Berzerker.

2. Cult Troops are different to CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark. They represent two different things. For example, give a Mark of Nurgle to a Chosen Marine and he does not become a Plague Marine. He has some Nurgle-related buffs, but maybe not the same levels of Plague Marine-specific equipment, and not the full suite of rules that actual Plague Marines receive.

3. Cult Troops are just CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark but the Cult Legions get additional bonuses. So a CSM with a Mark of Slaanesh is the same thing as a Noise Marine, but an Emperor's Children Noise Marine is somehow better than them with slightly better rules.

I'm wondering what people prefer. Also, two caveats here are that 1KSons are 1KSons regardless. Mark of Tzeentch on CSM/Terminator = Rubric/Scarab Occult. They're not something you can separate, and that I'm just talking about basic units (CSM/Termies/Chosen, not vehicles, characters and the like).

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Table wrote:
Not be caustic, but its cute that you guys think Worldeaters and Emps Children are getting books in the next few years (if ever). People have been wish listing it since KDK. Has yet to happen and wont imho, not anytime soon at least.
And they'll never put Primarchs in 40k either.


That has nothing to do with you getting a WE or EC codex. I promise you, it is not coming this year. Or next year. Keep wishing however. It will make it come faster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
Table wrote:
Not be caustic, but its cute that you guys think Worldeaters and Emps Children are getting books in the next few years (if ever). People have been wish listing it since KDK. Has yet to happen and wont imho, not anytime soon at least.


You know Thousand Sons and Death Guard have received releases/books in the time since KDK was first brought out........right?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
A chart you roll on each turn, which generates an optional Secondary Objective, representing the whims of the Gods?

The rewards needn’t be especially high, as I don’t envisage them replacing your existing Secondaries in any way, but being relatively random ways to bag some extra VPs? So not something you can necessarily plan around, but can absolutely exploit.


How exactly would a system like this work in a game where the amount of VPs you can accumulate are strictly capped?

Would really prefer to avoid random nonsense like this.


Again, what does that have to do with anything I have said. I said, and I will repeat, that I think it is cute that you are still waiting for a WE codex (I mean, how do you even have a WE codex? The legion disintegrated long ago) or EC codex. The fact that DG and TK got codexs means very little. But time will tell who is correct in this matter. Im stating it will be at least , at very best, two years out...and I would say never, but I am trying to be optimistic here!

Edit : KDK was a codex made to push the bloodthrister model but you have a far better chance at seeing a new codex for them than WE.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 05:21:40


 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





One thing IMHO GW needs to do with future models etc from a visual standpoint is lean a bit into the Hellbrute a bit, by that I mean the hellbrute is something whose orgins are clear. but at the same time it's been mutated and corrupted by Chaos. GW needs to take some stuff from the HH line and give it the "hellbrute treatment"

heck here's an idea, take the scimitar pattern jetbike, replace the heavy weapon mounted in the front with some some of demonic mouth (that can spit acid OR do a melee attack) give it wings and some demonic growth where mechanic bits should be, and boom chaos has a new type of jetbike unit that is clearly something new and chaosy but whose orgins CLEARLY lie in the heresy.

do this with a few chaos units and suddenly you can have a wide array of useful units filling niches that where left empty (just because something orginated as a old HH unit doesn't mean it will be filling the same role once chaos is done with it) and suddenly not only have you filled the gaps in the chaos line of battle, but you've made all the people who feel the old HH legions are poorly represented happier


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Table wrote:
That has nothing to do with you getting a WE or EC codex. I promise you, it is not coming this year. Or next year. Keep wishing however. It will make it come faster.
Sure thing buddy.

We'll just ignore the rumours of a WE Codex that come from a source that's yet to be wrong so far because you think it's "cute" that people might want such a thing. I mean, getting a WE Codex is just impossible. Like getting a DG Codex or 1KSons book, right? Or Primarchs. Or plastic Baneblades. Or any of the other things that people used to think utterly impossible and yet, here they are, real as anything. That's the point you missed, BTW. Completely missed. Over your head like a supersonic jet, it seems. Well done.

Unless you actually know something more than the rumours have suggested, then by all means tell us, or stow the attitude and take a hike, okeydokey?



This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 05:52:54


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

The plague burst crawler is an arquitor bombard from 30k. We just got the model in 8th ed(m41/2) while 30k got it afterwards.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Agreed. And "something" means more than access to a single stratagem and psychic power, or just +1 to a single stat. For reference, please see: Chaos Space Marines 3.5: The Books of Chaos. Marks should do that.
Here's a hypothetical then:

Marks of Chaos vs Cult Troops

1. Cult Troops are just CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark. They are one and the same. For example, give a Mark of Khorne to a Chaos Marine, he's now a Berzerker.

2. Cult Troops are different to CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark. They represent two different things. For example, give a Mark of Nurgle to a Chosen Marine and he does not become a Plague Marine. He has some Nurgle-related buffs, but maybe not the same levels of Plague Marine-specific equipment, and not the full suite of rules that actual Plague Marines receive.

3. Cult Troops are just CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark but the Cult Legions get additional bonuses. So a CSM with a Mark of Slaanesh is the same thing as a Noise Marine, but an Emperor's Children Noise Marine is somehow better than them with slightly better rules.

I'm wondering what people prefer. Also, two caveats here are that 1KSons are 1KSons regardless. Mark of Tzeentch on CSM/Terminator = Rubric/Scarab Occult. They're not something you can separate, and that I'm just talking about basic units (CSM/Termies/Chosen, not vehicles, characters and the like).


I believe the 2 option is the more correct going by fluff and allows the greater flexibility ingame.

One chaos marine can be favoured by khorne and not be a berzerker. A berzerker is an specific thing, a marine with the butcher nails even if it isn't from the World Eaters Legion. One khorne marine can "go berzerker" but not be a proper "berzerker". The same goes for a plague marine. A Nurgle favoured chaos marine could end up reaching the point of being basically a plague lord or a plague marine but not just by being marked from nurgle.

That creates the conumdrun were you can have "Normal" chaos marines marked by a god that are more favoured by their god than a "cult troop". A 2000 yeard old nurgle chaos marine that has been following his god will be more relevant than a 100 yeard old recently created plague marine in barbarus factories. And he can have nurgle blessings but that doesnt mean he needs to be all bloated and plaguey. I mean look at Abaddon but in a smaller scale. You can have the god blessings and still be """"normal"""

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 06:20:09


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Are there non-WE with Butcher's Nails?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

Table wrote:
Again, what does that have to do with anything I have said.


Because you're not saying anything worth considering. WE and EC will inevitably get books; it's only a matter of time, whether it takes 6 months or 6 years. Stick your head in the sand all you want.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Are there non-WE with Butcher's Nails?


Yes - e.g. the Black Legion have their own berzerker surgeons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 06:49:55


Emperor's Children
The Fourth Seal
 ClockworkZion wrote:
And sure, I assumed too much
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Oh cool. I didn't know that.

That changes how I view things. Thank you.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh




Chaos does need a lot of work and it seems like beyond the four god aligned legions we won’t be getting much of it in terms of rules, beyond a handful of hit or miss strats an extra wound on the profile and a swollen points cost for meq’s across the board. Maybe if we are really lucky they’ll give us the crappy half of the space marine chapter traits.
At this point I am hoping to encounter a gaming group that Is willing to experiment with home brewed rules until we make something fun for both players, or if I get real desperate, counts as everything I can as loyalists. That way I can have my spikes without paying the spike tax. We already are just loyalists except worse... but with dinobots.
I saw someone else saying that when their army is full of underperforming units and the power mismatch is too big they just start making their own objectives for themselves that don’t actually influence the games outcome in any way so they can feel good about how they played their army, and that is something I am considering doing as well.

Are there any ideas in terms of what you can do as a chaos space marine player? I think it’s generally a safe assumption that GW is going to miss the mark on the CSM codex and given how long I have spent watching my units explode and run away, I’m not keen on hoping that this time it will be different.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Rhinox Rider




 Galas wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


2. Cult Troops are different to CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark. They represent two different things. For example, give a Mark of Nurgle to a Chosen Marine and he does not become a Plague Marine. He has some Nurgle-related buffs, but maybe not the same levels of Plague Marine-specific equipment, and not the full suite of rules that actual Plague Marines receive.
.


I believe the 2 option is the more correct going by fluff and allows the greater flexibility ingame.

. The same goes for a plague marine. A Nurgle favoured chaos marine could end up reaching the point of being basically a plague lord or a plague marine but not just by being marked from nurgle.


For gameplay this seems to be not at useful. It’s not just having unmarked, marked, and cult versions of everything, there are also things that have nothing to do with the big four like the raptor and obliterator cults.

I find this thing with everything having multiple grades of god affiliation for each for to be reductive. I think many things in any given army have identity totally unrelated to what god they are. These things should not have their own rules-palette swap from red rules to pink to blue to green rules, because some of them don’t qualify for the attention a god, and some of them have something else going on that actually excludes the his.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Are there non-WE with Butcher's Nails?


The Berzerker Lord of actually two different allied berzerker war bands from the Siege of Vraks, Zhufor, started out in the loyalist Storm Lords. He was captured, given berserker surgery, fought his way to the top of that war and, then gained control of another one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


2. Cult Troops are different to CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark. They represent two different things. For example, give a Mark of Nurgle to a Chosen Marine and he does not become a Plague Marine. He has some Nurgle-related buffs, but maybe not the same levels of Plague Marine-specific equipment, and not the full suite of rules that actual Plague Marines receive.
.


I believe the 2 option is the more correct going by fluff and allows the greater flexibility ingame.

. The same goes for a plague marine. A Nurgle favoured chaos marine could end up reaching the point of being basically a plague lord or a plague marine but not just by being marked from nurgle.


For gameplay this seems to be not at useful. It’s not just having unmarked, marked, and cult versions of everything, there are also things that have nothing to do with the big four like the raptor and obliterator cults.

I find this thing with everything having multiple grades of god affiliation for each for to be reductive. I think many things in any given army have identity totally unrelated to what god they are. These things should not have their own rules-palette swap from red rules to pink to blue to green rules, because some of them don’t qualify for the attention a god, and some of them have something else going on that actually excludes the his.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Are there non-WE with Butcher's Nails?


The Berzerker Lord of actually two different allied berzerker war bands from the Siege of Vraks, Zhufor, started out in the loyalist Storm Lords. He was captured, given berserker surgery, fought his way to the top of that war and, then gained control of another one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 07:45:04


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Table wrote:
That has nothing to do with you getting a WE or EC codex. I promise you, it is not coming this year.
Being out-of-touch enough to not know GW explicitly stated weeks ago there would be no Chaos codex of any type this year speaks poorly to one's credibility.

Table wrote:
Not be caustic, but
It was.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Agreed. And "something" means more than access to a single stratagem and psychic power, or just +1 to a single stat. For reference, please see: Chaos Space Marines 3.5: The Books of Chaos. Marks should do that.
Here's a hypothetical then:

Marks of Chaos vs Cult Troops

1. Cult Troops are just CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark. They are one and the same. For example, give a Mark of Khorne to a Chaos Marine, he's now a Berzerker.

2. Cult Troops are different to CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark. They represent two different things. For example, give a Mark of Nurgle to a Chosen Marine and he does not become a Plague Marine. He has some Nurgle-related buffs, but maybe not the same levels of Plague Marine-specific equipment, and not the full suite of rules that actual Plague Marines receive.

3. Cult Troops are just CSMs/Terminators/Chosen with the Mark but the Cult Legions get additional bonuses. So a CSM with a Mark of Slaanesh is the same thing as a Noise Marine, but an Emperor's Children Noise Marine is somehow better than them with slightly better rules.

I'm wondering what people prefer. Also, two caveats here are that 1KSons are 1KSons regardless. Mark of Tzeentch on CSM/Terminator = Rubric/Scarab Occult. They're not something you can separate, and that I'm just talking about basic units (CSM/Termies/Chosen, not vehicles, characters and the like).

Personally, I'd prefer number 2. If CSM, Chosen, etc with a mark are just Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, etc, then what's the point in those actual units? It should be entirely possible for a CSM, Chosen, or Havoc to carry the Mark of a Chaos God without being a full Cult Marine. Basically, I'd make Marks work for units in the way they did in 3.5, minus the rule that CSM become the Cult Marines of that particular God when taking that Mark. It worked that way in 3.5 because Cult Marines weren't distinct units in that codex, but they are now, and they should remain distinct.

BrianDavion wrote:One thing IMHO GW needs to do with future models etc from a visual standpoint is lean a bit into the Hellbrute a bit, by that I mean the hellbrute is something whose orgins are clear. but at the same time it's been mutated and corrupted by Chaos. GW needs to take some stuff from the HH line and give it the "hellbrute treatment"

heck here's an idea, take the scimitar pattern jetbike, replace the heavy weapon mounted in the front with some some of demonic mouth (that can spit acid OR do a melee attack) give it wings and some demonic growth where mechanic bits should be, and boom chaos has a new type of jetbike unit that is clearly something new and chaosy but whose orgins CLEARLY lie in the heresy.

do this with a few chaos units and suddenly you can have a wide array of useful units filling niches that where left empty (just because something orginated as a old HH unit doesn't mean it will be filling the same role once chaos is done with it) and suddenly not only have you filled the gaps in the chaos line of battle, but you've made all the people who feel the old HH legions are poorly represented happier


You do realize that a lot of CSM players don't use Hellbrutes because they're mutated, right? They want the HH Legions represented with actual HH units, not something that resembles them with tentacles growing out of it. Those jetbikes you just described sound suspiciously like Plague Drones. If you like daemon engines, you should be able to play daemon engines, and if you like Legion vehicles, you should be able to play Legion vehicles. I don't see any reason to combine the two.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I honestly have no idea how they are going to treat CSM. I actually really like how they have done Tsons and Deathguard. I picked up both armies seriously when their 9th edition codex dropped and I haven't looked back.

Years of loyalty to CSM, and in the end, I found that Tsons and Deathguard are so cool and fun to play now. And what's more, they are fluffy too. The lists I make for Tsons and Deathguard all feel very fluffy to their lore. I am having a blast playing with Deathshroud, Blightlords, Occults, Rubrics marines, Plague marines. After so many years, I am finally able to play a chaos space marines army and not feel like I am playing CSM cultists, or CSM Daemon Engines, or inferior spiky marines (1W? No Transhuman?, using AP 0 bolters? A Chaplain on a bike with litany of hate and fury will chop up any chaos lord I can field against it. I don't even know what CSM marines have going for them... they are outfought, less durable, and outshot. They are just "cheap" in points and that's about it...).

I honestly don't know how they are going to treat the CSM codex, and I have no idea how to make it work either. I will just play Tsons and Deathguard in the meantime while waiting.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/16 02:40:32


 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Gadzilla666 wrote:

You do realize that a lot of CSM players don't use Hellbrutes because they're mutated, right? They want the HH Legions represented with actual HH units, not something that resembles them with tentacles growing out of it. Those jetbikes you just described sound suspiciously like Plague Drones. If you like daemon engines, you should be able to play daemon engines, and if you like Legion vehicles, you should be able to play Legion vehicles. I don't see any reason to combine the two.


the horus heresy was ten thousand years ago. expecting chaos not to have changed in ten thousand years is absurd.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

BrianDavion wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

You do realize that a lot of CSM players don't use Hellbrutes because they're mutated, right? They want the HH Legions represented with actual HH units, not something that resembles them with tentacles growing out of it. Those jetbikes you just described sound suspiciously like Plague Drones. If you like daemon engines, you should be able to play daemon engines, and if you like Legion vehicles, you should be able to play Legion vehicles. I don't see any reason to combine the two.



the horus heresy was ten thousand years ago. expecting chaos not to have changed in ten thousand years is absurd.

Oh, they have. Many have fully embraced the Chaos Gods, and become everything from Cult Marines to full on Possessed. And many have traded their tanks and dreadnoughts for daemon engines. Others have stuck to the Old Ways, while others are somewhere in between. Having both daemon engines and Heresy era units allows for players to choose which they want to represent. Making everything effectively a daemon engine takes away that choice.

And all CSM aren't 10,000 years old, because time doesn't work the same in the Eye.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







BrianDavion wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

You do realize that a lot of CSM players don't use Hellbrutes because they're mutated, right? They want the HH Legions represented with actual HH units, not something that resembles them with tentacles growing out of it. Those jetbikes you just described sound suspiciously like Plague Drones. If you like daemon engines, you should be able to play daemon engines, and if you like Legion vehicles, you should be able to play Legion vehicles. I don't see any reason to combine the two.


the horus heresy was ten thousand years ago. expecting chaos not to have changed in ten thousand years is absurd.


And yet the loyalists still have their Cataphractii/Tartaros and we don't. Riddle me that.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: