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Nulipuli2 wrote:Dark Reapers: 18 points per model
WS BS S T I W A Ld Sv
4 5 3 3 5 1 1 9 3+
Reaper Launcher:
48" Str: 5 AP:3 Heavy 2
or
48" Str: 7 AP:4 Heavy 1
Special Rules:
Slow and Purposeful
Exarch Powers:
Fast Shot-every dood in the unit gets +1 shot if the unit did not move
Crack Shot-enemy gets a -1 modifier on cover saves made

Fast shot in this version is incredibly powerful, for about 200 points you could have a unit that lays down 30 S5 AP3 shots at 48". I know Reapers are over costed at the moment but I think 18 points is too few. A unit of 10 would basically guarentee you kill a full SM squad each turn.

Edit: 20 points, both guns are Heavy 1, hows that?

I don't think the matter is the heavy 2 for S5, The problem as I see it is the exarch power and the point cost per model. If it was S5 Heavy 2 or S7 Heavy 1 with S+P they would be in the 20-25 point range, Then we'd just need a 2nd Exarch power.

Gorechild wrote:
Fast shot in this version is incredibly powerful, for about 200 points you could have a unit that lays down 30 S5 AP3 shots at 48".

There's another problem; Reapers should be 3-5.

The only time they were any other size was when they were a squad of 3 exactly (no changes allowed).

3-5 with Eldar Missile Launchers. Still can't give them Crack Shot or Fast Shot though. GW might consider something so absurd, since that's the new standard, but I could never live implementing it.

What if they simply had S5 Ap3 Heavy 3? Give more incentive to standing still and laying down a barrage.

I don't see the purpose of forcing AT on them if it is possible to get it elsewhere in the army (which is the aim of most of what we suggest - make AT options other than Fire Dragons viable)

Given the improvements we've suggested for the heavy weapons, Eldars ranged AT would be in a much better state than it is now. Giving an AT option would stop them being a "one trick pony", but when thinking about it, isn't that what aspect warriors are meant to be? If the squad was limited to 5 models then an exarch power to give +1 shot would be okay I guess, but on a unit of 10 it becomes too powerful. If they were kept with 1 fire type then I think 48" Heavy 2 S5, with Slow and Purposeful and Fast shot (+1 shot if they dont move) and crack shot (cover saves reduced by 1) would make them viable. Then it would just be a matter of costing them appropriatly.

I don't know, (if the Exarch is armed with a default reaper launcher) Heavy 2 with SnP and FS... 10 shots on the move, 15 stationary?

Currently you get 0 on the move, 11 stationary... i don't see the price dropping that much if your beefing up the shots and the whole unit gets crack shot (-1 to cover saves)

I prefer my Snap shot approach... 5 on the move, 10 stationary.

How about just relentless... 10 on the move, 10 standing still.

dayve110 wrote:I don't know, (if the Exarch is armed with a default reaper launcher) Heavy 2 with SnP and FS... 10 shots on the move, 15 stationary?

Currently you get 0 on the move, 11 stationary... i don't see the price dropping that much if your beefing up the shots and the whole unit gets crack shot (-1 to cover saves)

I prefer my Snap shot approach... 5 on the move, 10 stationary.

It depends if you want them reduced in points more than you want them to have more dakka.
I think that either opion is an improvement on the current set up though

relentless, 10 moving and 10 standing still, is best, though we should find another exarch power if we make that the case.

On the other hand, a unit which puts out 15 S5 Ap3 shots is still way overpriced at 35ppm.

They're still T3 3+ models, no matter how you slice it, and long ranged low Ap weapons are not great.

Would be interesting if they fully negated cover save as well (going to the fluff about how they pride themselves being some of the most accurate, even by Eldar standards)

A complete negation of cover saves would make them more effective against more targets, and I think it would be better to include than a cover save modifier.

On the other hand, if there is any model in the codex which should ignore cover, it would be pathfinders.

I also still feel that reapers are a prime place to buff the long ranged AT of the codex. They are still a one-trick pony set up with S5 ap3, an it doesn't go against fluff to make them effective against multiple targets - they are still murdering from far away.

30ppm (3-5 models)
WS/BS/S/T/A/I/W/Ld/Sv
Dark Reaper
4/4/3/3/1/5/1/9/2+
Dark Reaper Exarch
5/5/3/3/2/5/1/10/2+

Relentless
Reaper Launcher:
S5 Ap3 R48" Heavy 2
Or
S7 Ap5 R48" Heavy 1

Tempest Launcher:
S4 Ap3 R48" Heavy 2 small blast (as now, +12")

The real question is, what do we want to do about cover?
Relentless fixes them in DoW deployment, gives them some mobility. The 2+ armor makes them less vulnerable to having only 5 models in a squad (a necessary change, in my opinion). The S7 shot allows them some diversification and buffs the codex's ranged AT.

Cover is a major problem for R48" shots - especially AP3 shots. -1 modifier isn't bad, is a complete removal of cover overpowered? It would parlay nicely into ignoring obscured for shooting at those fast movers or other AV12- hulls (S7 is, lets face it, anti-AV11 or worse, which is fine).

We could do a few things, all with a piece of wargear:
targeting vanes:
Cover and obscured saves taken against wounds inflicted by the reapers in shooting are modified by -1 (i.e., a 4+ becomes a 5+).
or
Cover and obscured saves may not be taken against wounds inflicted by the reapers in shooting.
or
Successful cover and obscured saves taken against wounds inflicted by the reapers in shooting must be rerolled.

or, we can not do anything about it. Even forcing marines to roll on 4+ is moving them from a 16ptish save to a 8-12pt ish save.

What about something similar to the tyranid hive guard, i.e. they ignore cover saves granted by intervening models and terrain but if the target is in area terrain then they still get their cover save.
Of the other options I think a -1 modifier is the better way to go.

I also don't see anything wrong with having the second firing mode be S7 AP 5 heavy 2, that's just an autocannon with worse AP. For a 2+ save with two firing modes and a cover reduction ability they should probably have SnP instead of relentless and cost 35 points easily.

I think ignoring all cover saves would be over the top without increasing their point cost, I do like the re-roll sucessful cover saves and -1 modifier though. With the re-roll you'd (on average) kill 3.3 marines with a squad of 5, the modifier would kill 2.2. For a 200 point unit, is that ok?

Re-rolling saves in general (i.e. power weapon light) is something I'd like to explore.

I'm sorry if I bounce back to Guardians slightly, but I promise not to deal with Defenders.

Re-rolling cover saves for Reapers is a good middle ground. Being Relentless isn't inherently something necessary if they are good enough to merit standing exposed.

With Guardian Storms you have them squeezed in a situation where they are either too much like Scorpions if you give them +1 attack or too much like Banshees if you give them power weapons (not to mention power weapons being classically reserved for more elite models).
What about Reactive Swords or Vibration Swords or whatever you want to call them? Re-roll successful armour saves (i.e. bone swords?)

Maybe combine the re-roll with the -1.

Cover save taken at -1. Re-rolled with normal save if passed?

phyrephly wrote:Maybe combine the re-roll with the -1.

That would average 3.93 wounds Vs MEQ. Seem's okay I guess, it all depends on how many points they would be (especially the exarch powers). Keeping them as they are but improving it to a 2+ save and giving S+P I think 25-30 would be okay, probably closer to 30.

Could have (sticking with the same format) 2 Dark Reapers + Exarch for 100 points, Up to 2 extra reapers may be added for 30 points each. May purchase Crack shot exarch power for 20 points (modifies all enemies cover saves 1, re reroll all sucessful cover saves. and Snap shot for 10 points, allows them to move normally (not with S+P) but all weapons count as assault 1.

I'm sticking with S5 Heavy2 and S7 heavy2 with the snap shot rule.
Its not as OP as relentless or SnP but still gives the option to fire on the move.

As for cover saves, i think a -1 is more than acceptable, a re-roll on saves could be a new farseer power (the opposite of fortune? Curse?)

With -1 modifier and snap shot i'd put them at about 25 points. (20 each, 3 points ea for crackshot, 2 points ea for snap shot) Or there abouts.

I'd be wary of putting too much reliance on the Farseers again. Although it is a nice unit to have around, it shouldn't be essential for Eldar success, the current edition is way beyond the 1+ restrictions from past editions.

Mahtamori wrote:I'd be wary of putting too much reliance on the Farseers again. Although it is a nice unit to have around, it shouldn't be essential for Eldar success.

I think the other HQ's being rubbish is the real problem. Sure Farseers are good, but we only depend on them because 90% of the time the other HQ's are pointless. The only point to play with an Autarch is if your using yo-yo hawks or full mech all in reserve. An Avatar is pointless unless your all on foot and even then it REALLY benifits from having a farseer to help it survive.

I think the best option would be to improve the farseer and boost its cost considerably so that you'd only ever really need 1, but it can become the psychic powerhouse that it should be. They can hold the roll of psychic defence and epic buff's for your army. Autarch take care of the logistical side of things (entering from reserve, how you deploy, hindering opponents deployment ect) with some combat ability, a sort of all rounder. The Avatar should be the complete and utter master of CC.

If Reapers are properly discussed then I'd like to get busy with the HQ's.

Well i'm happy with reapers being H2 with snap shot and a 2+ save, were not going to agree on every little detail... or we'll be here for weeks on each unit, but we know roughly the general idea (-1 to cover, some sort fire+move, better save, less points)

For HQ's

Avatar
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
X 5 6 6 4 5 4 10 3+

SPECIAL RULES
Daemon: To all intents and purposed, an Avatar is a Daemon and will therefore be affected by weapons and abilities that affect Daemons. He benefits from a 4+ invulnerable save as well as his 3+ armour save and has the USR: Eternal War and USR: Fearless
God of War: The Avatar will always hit on a 3+ in close combat and will always be hit on 5+.
Inspiring: When led by their Avatar, the craftworld Eldar are filled with thoughts of bloodshed, and its presence inspires them to great acts of valour. Any Eldar unit with a model within 12” of the Avatar has the USR: Fearless and USR: Furious Charge
Molten Body: The Avatars body is fashioned from burning iron flooded with glowing magma. Melta weapons (all weapons with the melta type) and flamers (including heavy flamers, flamestorm cannons, etc) cannot wound the Avatar.
Monstrous Creature: The Avatar is a huge and fearsomely strong opponent and therefore has the USR: Monstrous creature.

WARGEAR
The Wailing Doom: The Wailing Doom is a weapon of immense power that may take the form of a vicious spear, a mighty sword or a many-bladed axe; it can be used to project a nimbus of burning energy, using the following profile:
Range: 12” S: 8 AP: 1 Assault 1, Melta

----------

Autarch
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 3 3 3 6 3 10 3+

SPECIAL RULES
Infantry/Jump Infantry, Fleet of Foot, Independent Character.
Master Strategist: Autarchs are superb strategists, able to command the Eldar units in perfect synchronicity. While the Autarch is alive, you may choose to add or subtract 1 to your rolls for reserves, regardless of whether he is in play or not (a roll of a 1 always counts as a failure and a roll of a 6 always counts as a success)...
In addition one unit in your army may gain scout for every Autarch in your force.

WARGEAR
Assault and defensive grenades.
Haywire grenades.
Shuriken pistol.
Forceshield: The Eldar favour sleeve-mounted field projectors over the clunky and restrictive armour used by other races. A forceshield confers a 4+ invulnerable save.
Normal weapon optoins (as is now)

----------

Farseers and warlocks will need to be done on their own, And Pheonix Lords will need to be done as a seperate group also. For now it should be more than enough work with these two

A few thoughts on preceding.

Avatar: Basically I like it with a couple suggestions. Put the WS at 10. Things like Lilith come to mind. With a WS of X how many extra attacks does she get? Possible enhancements - it is living molten metal. I could see granting it Regen. Not a guarantee but the ability to regenerate means shoot it quick or risk it going back to full strength. I like the melta spear added in the last codex. Perhaps add to that with a heavy flamer template (breath weapon) or a small blast weaker form of the thrown spear. Not allowing more than one being used but providing flexibility.

Edit add: Fluff defines it as daemonic nature. Give it the daemonic advantage. Immune to instant death.

Autarch: This would need to be looked at in detail for some brokeness. Standard values as given but add to it taking any two exarch powers along with any special exarch weapons. Say heavy flamer and executioner with defend and acrobatics as an example. Allow these autarch abilities to be shared with the unit he is attached to. This makes the autarch an extreme combat general offering a different kind of force multiplier than the farseer.

My other change is to restrict the eldar codex again (e.g. Pathfinders removed as standard troop, Jetbikes moved back to Fast Attack, Wraithguard strictly elites, etc.)
Do the new GW way and lift these restrictions by playing a named autarch to get past one of these. (i.e. A named Alaitoc autarch upgrades rangers to pathfinders, a named Saim Hann autarch releases the Jetbikes as troops, etc.)

Between the generic autarch enhancements and the named autarchs, I think autarchs will be desirable for the eldar player.

Phoenix Lords: As a starting point. The easy change is make their costs reasonable. Compared to all other codex, phoenix lords are too costly and offer no benefits to make them an option over an autarch or most certainly a farseer.

The other simplistic change would be to make all of their aspect fearless. The scary one is qualify their aspect to be fielded as troops or more mellow Pedro Kantor-like and qualify their aspect as being able to hold objectives. I like the first option best but live in fear of Fuegan led Fire Dragon armies. It would be desirable to make to allow for the old Beil-tan Scorpion or Howling Banshee cores but again I will turn green if Dakka becomes filled with Fuegan lists or some exploit of Maugan Ra or Baharroth. (The yo-yo army... yuck.) If changing the aspect to troops is allowed that handles everyone but Asurmen as DA are already troops so some unique buff for Asurment would be needed say the SM chapter banner bonus where all DA within 12" qualify for +1 A and being eldar perhaps +1 S or furious charge or perhaps preferred enemy.

dayve110 wrote:Avatar
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
X 5 6 6 4 5 4 10 3+

SPECIAL RULES
Daemon: To all intents and purposed, an Avatar is a Daemon and will therefore be affected by weapons and abilities that affect Daemons. He benefits from a 4+ invulnerable save as well as his 3+ armour save and has the USR: Eternal War and USR: Fearless
God of War: The Avatar will always hit on a 3+ in close combat and will always be hit on 5+.
Inspiring: When led by their Avatar, the craftworld Eldar are filled with thoughts of bloodshed, and its presence inspires them to great acts of valour. Any Eldar unit with a model within 12” of the Avatar has the USR: Fearless and USR: Furious Charge
Molten Body: The Avatars body is fashioned from burning iron flooded with glowing magma. Melta weapons (all weapons with the melta type) and flamers (including heavy flamers, flamestorm cannons, etc) cannot wound the Avatar.
Monstrous Creature: The Avatar is a huge and fearsomely strong opponent and therefore has the USR: Monstrous creature.

WARGEAR
The Wailing Doom: The Wailing Doom is a weapon of immense power that may take the form of a vicious spear, a mighty sword or a many-bladed axe; it can be used to project a nimbus of burning energy, using the following profile:
Range: 12” S: 8 AP: 1 Assault 1, Melta

I was thinking more along the lines of turning the avatar into a 250+ point moster rather than just tweaking its current profile. It is the incarnation of the god of war he should be crazy, Skarbrand (the dishonoured ex-bodyguard of Khorne that has now been replaced by another far stronger bloodthirster) is 300 points, you'd thing the avatar of an actual god would atleast compare to him. I'd want WS10 (always hits on 2+) S6 (re-roll fails to wound) and a load of buff's would be more than reasonable.

dayve110 wrote:
Autarch
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 3 3 3 6 3 10 3+

SPECIAL RULES
Infantry/Jump Infantry, Fleet of Foot, Independent Character.
Master Strategist: Autarchs are superb strategists, able to command the Eldar units in perfect synchronicity. While the Autarch is alive, you may choose to add or subtract 1 to your rolls for reserves, regardless of whether he is in play or not (a roll of a 1 always counts as a failure and a roll of a 6 always counts as a success)...
In addition one unit in your army may gain scout for every Autarch in your force.

WARGEAR
Assault and defensive grenades.
Haywire grenades.
Shuriken pistol.
Forceshield: The Eldar favour sleeve-mounted field projectors over the clunky and restrictive armour used by other races. A forceshield confers a 4+ invulnerable save.
Normal weapon options (as is now)

Just going to throw forward a few ideas from the old thread that I really liked incase anybody missed them first time round...
1) any units kept in reserve can be grouped togeter. Instead of rolling for an individual unit to enter from reserve, you roll for a whole group. For example
an autarch in a unit of warp spiders, a unit of swooping hawks and a squad of vypers are group 1,
3 units of dire avengers in wave serpents are group 2,
3 fire prisms are group 3.

Instead of rolling 9 dice for reserves you roll 3. If you pass the roll for for group 1 but fail the other two all of the fast attack arrives together, the troops and heavy support stay in reserve. It allows you to deploy units that compliment each other at the same time and avoid odd units coming in on their own to be wiped out.

2)Any board edge not specified as belonging to your opponent count as your own, this means you can enter from reserve from them, and will also fall back towards whichever edge is closest.

just throwing them out there as little interesting additions to consider

DAaddict wrote:A few thoughts on preceding.

Avatar: Basically I like it with a couple suggestions. Put the WS at 10. Things like Lilith come to mind. With a WS of X how many extra attacks does she get? Possible enhancements - it is living molten metal. I could see granting it Regen. Not a guarantee but the ability to regenerate means shoot it quick or risk it going back to full strength. I like the melta spear added in the last codex. Perhaps add to that with a heavy flamer template (breath weapon) or a small blast weaker form of the thrown spear. Not allowing more than one being used but providing flexibility.

Edit add: Fluff defines it as daemonic nature. Give it the daemonic advantage. Immune to instant death.

Change to WS X
Special Rule: God of War: The Avatar will always hit on a 3+ in close combat and will always be hit on 5+. In Instances where a WS value is needed for a special rule, count it as 10.

Regen could be a possibility, but that would be very nasty indeed... I do like the option to use the template or blast, treating the template as a heavy flamer like you said. The blast is more tricky, it can't be too high AP, and it would have to be short range, so im not sure on stats for that one.

I gave him Eternal Warrior (which is immune to Instant Death)

DAaddict wrote:Autarch: This would need to be looked at in detail for some brokeness. Standard values as given but add to it taking any two exarch powers along with any special exarch weapons. Say heavy flamer and executioner with defend and acrobatics as an example. Allow these autarch abilities to be shared with the unit he is attached to. This makes the autarch an extreme combat general offering a different kind of force multiplier than the farseer.

I Don't think Autarchs should recieve Exarch powers.
Exarchs are lost on the path of the warrior and are pretty much bound into their certain aspect for life. An Autarch would have studied each aspect, but not have become lost upon it, therefore would not have learnt the Exarch powers or recieved the Exarch weapons.
This is why he currently has 0 powers and only standard Aspect weaponry. I think it should remain that way and the Autarch gives buffs for deployment and reserves and such.

DAaddict wrote:My other change is to restrict the eldar codex again (e.g. Pathfinders removed as standard troop, Jetbikes moved back to Fast Attack, Wraithguard strictly elites, etc.)
Do the new GW way and lift these restrictions by playing a named autarch to get past one of these. (i.e. A named Alaitoc autarch upgrades rangers to pathfinders, a named Saim Hann autarch releases the Jetbikes as troops, etc.)

Complicated. With the Pheonix lords and a named Autarch for each craftworld (along with people like Eldrad and any non-autarch charecters) the special charecter pages will be overflowing with unused models.
I think its good as it is now being able to take certain units as troops without having to buy a special charecter. If i wanted a Seer/Avatar combo i'd be stuck with DA and Guardians... not good.

DAaddict wrote:Phoenix Lords: As a starting point. The easy change is make their costs reasonable. Compared to all other codex, phoenix lords are too costly and offer no benefits to make them an option over an autarch or most certainly a farseer.
The other simplistic change would be to make all of their aspect fearless. The scary one is qualify their aspect to be fielded as troops or more mellow Pedro Kantor-like and qualify their aspect as being able to hold objectives. I like the first option best but live in fear of Fuegan led Fire Dragon armies. It would be desirable to make to allow for the old Beil-tan Scorpion or Howling Banshee cores but again I will turn green if Dakka becomes filled with Fuegan lists or some exploit of Maugan Ra or Baharroth. (The yo-yo army... yuck.) If changing the aspect to troops is allowed that handles everyone but Asurmen as DA are already troops so some unique buff for Asurment would be needed say the SM chapter banner bonus where all DA within 12" qualify for +1 A and being eldar perhaps +1 S or furious charge or perhaps preferred enemy.

Interesting, i'll leave my ideas baking in my oven until the Avatar and Autarch are sorted to comment fully.

Gorechild wrote:

dayve110 wrote:Avatar
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
X 5 6 6 4 5 4 10 3+

SPECIAL RULES
Daemon: To all intents and purposed, an Avatar is a Daemon and will therefore be affected by weapons and abilities that affect Daemons. He benefits from a 4+ invulnerable save as well as his 3+ armour save and has the USR: Eternal War and USR: Fearless
God of War: The Avatar will always hit on a 3+ in close combat and will always be hit on 5+.
Inspiring: When led by their Avatar, the craftworld Eldar are filled with thoughts of bloodshed, and its presence inspires them to great acts of valour. Any Eldar unit with a model within 12” of the Avatar has the USR: Fearless and USR: Furious Charge
Molten Body: The Avatars body is fashioned from burning iron flooded with glowing magma. Melta weapons (all weapons with the melta type) and flamers (including heavy flamers, flamestorm cannons, etc) cannot wound the Avatar.
Monstrous Creature: The Avatar is a huge and fearsomely strong opponent and therefore has the USR: Monstrous creature.

WARGEAR
The Wailing Doom: The Wailing Doom is a weapon of immense power that may take the form of a vicious spear, a mighty sword or a many-bladed axe; it can be used to project a nimbus of burning energy, using the following profile:
Range: 12” S: 8 AP: 1 Assault 1, Melta

I was thinking more along the lines of turning the avatar into a 250+ point moster rather than just tweaking its current profile. It is the incarnation of the god of war he should be crazy, Skarbrand (the dishonoured ex-bodyguard of Khorne that has now been replaced by another far stronger bloodthirster) is 300 points, you'd thing the avatar of an actual god would atleast compare to him. I'd want WS10 (always hits on 2+) S6 (re-roll fails to wound) and a load of buff's would be more than reasonable.

Well, it is only a fragment of the God, and as such should not be OMG-PWNAGE, if he was that good i see no reason why the craftworlds simply don't re-unite his seperate parts and make him even stronger.
Nothing (i can think of) hits on a 2+ in combat, Even WS10 vs WS1 is a 3+. My God of War rule lets him hit anything on a 3+ which seems decent to me, hitting your opponents 'oh so mighty combat beasties' on a 3.
S6 with re-rolls... Perhaps each Avatar could be equipped differently depending on the craftworld (his fluff does say he could be carrying a sword, axe, spear, whatever) with each weapon conferring different abilities. One could be S8 and 2H for instance. The choice of weapon could also affect the wailing doom attack DAddict suggested (melta, flamer, blast varieties)

For a normal game of 40k, 155 (current) to 200, maybe 225, seems more than enough to spend on one unit (considering how expensive everything else is in our codex)
For an uber combat beasty, maybe he belongs in Apoc (where 2+ craftworlds have joined forces and their Avatar temprarily meld into one all-powerful killing machine)

Gorechild wrote:

dayve110 wrote:
Autarch
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 3 3 3 6 3 10 3+

SPECIAL RULES
Infantry/Jump Infantry, Fleet of Foot, Independent Character.
Master Strategist: Autarchs are superb strategists, able to command the Eldar units in perfect synchronicity. While the Autarch is alive, you may choose to add or subtract 1 to your rolls for reserves, regardless of whether he is in play or not (a roll of a 1 always counts as a failure and a roll of a 6 always counts as a success)...
In addition one unit in your army may gain scout for every Autarch in your force.

WARGEAR
Assault and defensive grenades.
Haywire grenades.
Shuriken pistol.
Forceshield: The Eldar favour sleeve-mounted field projectors over the clunky and restrictive armour used by other races. A forceshield confers a 4+ invulnerable save.
Normal weapon options (as is now)

Just going to throw forward a few ideas from the old thread that I really liked incase anybody missed them first time round...
1) any units kept in reserve can be grouped togeter. Instead of rolling for an individual unit to enter from reserve, you roll for a whole group. For example
an autarch in a unit of warp spiders, a unit of swooping hawks and a squad of vypers are group 1,
3 units of dire avengers in wave serpents are group 2,
3 fire prisms are group 3.

Instead of rolling 9 dice for reserves you roll 3. If you pass the roll for for group 1 but fail the other two all of the fast attack arrives together, the troops and heavy support stay in reserve. It allows you to deploy units that compliment each other at the same time and avoid odd units coming in on their own to be wiped out.

2)Any board edge not specified as belonging to your opponent count as your own, this means you can enter from reserve from them, and will also fall back towards whichever edge is closest.

just throwing them out there as little interesting additions to consider

1) The grouping together idea was origionally mine, can't recall if everyone decided on it being Autarch specific or simply a race-specific rule. I like the idea of it being Autarch specific.
2) Hmm. It may be OP, especially combined with point 1. Essentially your entire army can outflank and arrive in one big group. Possibly make it so units arriving this way cannot be grouped (so its a tactical choice) Or opening up the scout-giving abilites (say 1/3 of your force, calculated by KP) can outflank

Nothing (i can think of) hits on a 2+ in combat, Even WS10 vs WS1 is a 3+. My God of War rule lets him hit anything on a 3+ which seems decent to me, hitting your opponents 'oh so mighty combat beasties' on a 3.

Several things have this, units all over the pace have the ability via special rules. The first that comes to mind is Kharn the Betrayer and the rules for Gorechild (obviously ). Its not uncommon for CC specialists.

Gorechild wrote:

Nothing (i can think of) hits on a 2+ in combat, Even WS10 vs WS1 is a 3+. My God of War rule lets him hit anything on a 3+ which seems decent to me, hitting your opponents 'oh so mighty combat beasties' on a 3.

Several things have this, units all over the pace have the ability via special rules. The first that comes to mind is Kharn the Betrayer and the rules for Gorechild (obviously ). Its not uncommon for CC specialists.

Well there are certain... Downsides.
Effectivly Kharn cannot miss in his thirst for the spillage of blood, any blood.
The Avatar of Khaine, being the Eldar incarnation of the God of War, should fight with more... finesse, rather than brute force or insane bloodlust.

Things seem to have gone a bit quiet so I'll crack on with some suggestions. As far as the Avatar goes there are two ways forward, tweaking the current set up and keeping him around the 150-160 point mark, or cranking him up to make him special character standard. A few things I'd ike to see either way is some way of the Avatar giving stubborn to the army, either in a bubble like fearless or maybe army wide? The only gripes I have with the current set up for the avatar is the molten body only protecting from flamer + heavy flamers, not things like that SM land raider (can't remember name ). I'd also like to see a toughness boost (but his may only apply if we boost the points).

My prefered idea would be to go for something along the lines of.

Avatar of Khaine - .....points

BS WS S T I A W Ld Sv
-5--10--8-8-8-6-4--10-2+

Incarnation of a God-
The Avatar of Khaine is the physical manifestation of the God of war, hence he has a 4++ save. The Avatar is also treated as a Deamon in all respects.

Wailing Doom-
R12" S8 AP1 Assault 1, Melta. Always Strikes at S8 I8 in combat, regardless of any penalties inflicted by enemy rules/wargear.

Inspiring-
Whilst the Avatar is on the board all friendly units have the stuborn USR. In addition, any friendly model within 12" of the Avatar is fearless.

The Bloody Handed God-
Any enemy unit that attempts to assault the Avatar first pass a leadership test, if failed the assaulting unit may not assault the avatar or any other unit this turn. All Ld tests taken within 12" of the Avatar must do so with a -2 modifier to their leadership.

If he gets T8 and 2+ save, I honestly think that whatever his cost, he must have a special rule denying him the benefit of Fortune. Otherwise it'd be ridiculous.

I like your suggestion, except I strongly disagree with T8. He could have a rule saying Wailing Doom always strikes at S8, but T8 is hardly the way to go for such a combat monster.

The special rules are nice, but I'd add that should any creature wants to engage The Avatar in the assault, they need to pass a leadership check(with that -2 modifier you proposed). That lets him control the flow of the battlefield in addition to granting Fearless and Stubborn to the army.

But Seer powers should have no effect on him.

Updated my last post to include some of your suggestions
I just want a couple more opinions. On the toughness or immunity to friendly psychic powers thing. I can think of a decent way to incorporate the latter if we need. If not it could just be a matter of dropping his toughness to 7 so MEQ's can hurt him.

The only change I would make to the existing Avatar is BS 10. He's a god of war after all and should have a BS higher than the guys who represent aspects of him.

I see no reason to change anything else. He already works well.