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That all sounded pretty plausible for early rumours until you detailed the Kraken, and not only for the ridiculous hit everything in a 72" line part. 72" S10 AP1 Lance weapon? Honestly, I can't see it happening.

Wow, that's an interesting post Guyperson! Can I ask if you saw any mention of Demiurg (unless it's the 'centaur like creatures that no one will use'?)

Vladamyr wrote:

Kanluwen wrote: Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!

This comment really angers me, because its what everyone says when Tau FW BS 3 is brought up....I am sorry but thats what we have the best technological equipment....to make up for that......


Rant over

And that puts you on par with a normal Guardsman in terms of shooting. Yes, Veterans have higher--but that's because they've been fighting longer than most Tau will live. Tau lifespans are looking to be equivalent to what human lifespans were during the pre-Industrial Revolution.

Technology by itself can only boost your biological stats so far. Skill and training will push it even further, experience even further, etc.

What you'll likely see is a "Veteran" Fire Warrior unit that can take Rail Rifles and gets BS4.

And even that will be pushing it, assuming they're veteran AND have technological enhancements to their ability to track fast-moving targets or targets at a distance (which is the weak part of their sight).

Kraken seems fine rules wise, but under priced by far - maybe 265pts or something close to a LR etc. I would bet a variety of things listed will have different rules and pricing, but if the theme of this content is real then it looks like a very nice direction for Tau.

Please please Battlesuits as troop
and New model of battlesuit, or when I have done this army. it would be freakishly expensive (All FW army?)

guyperson5 wrote:
OK then, Brother SRM
(rumors aplenty)

Now that's a post! This still seems fairly playtesty, and there are some things that sound a bit iffy to me, but this is pretty substantial. The Kraken sounds like it could use some tweaking, but most of this seems plausible at this stage. Thanks for sharing!

Brother SRM wrote:

guyperson5 wrote:
OK then, Brother SRM
(rumors aplenty)

Now that's a post! This still seems fairly playtesty, and there are some things that sound a bit iffy to me, but this is pretty substantial. The Kraken sounds like it could use some tweaking, but most of this seems plausible at this stage. Thanks for sharing!

Most of it sounds more like wishlisting to me.

The Kraken especially, since that's what gets proposed anytime a Tau player talks about "tweaking railguns".

guyperson5 wrote:
OK then, Brother SRM

*rumours*

It does sound very fan-dexy to me. I'll be taking lots of salt with this.

Some of it sounds kind of interesting.

Well if rumors are true the same guy that wrote the Guard Codex will write the Tau.

If that's the case get ready for an insane buff to Tau.

Anyone who thinks that 60 point 3 wound Crisis suits with every weapon system would be bad needs to sit back and rethink their life.

Fetterkey wrote:Anyone who thinks that 60 point 3 wound Crisis suits with every weapon system would be bad needs to sit back and rethink their life.

Agreed. You pay 62 for a Fireknife right now.

Yeah, those 'rumors' were believable until you got to the Kraken. Thats a superheavy vehicle if I ever saw one....

Also, the fact that sniper teams are 0-1 kinda confuzzles me, considering no other unit in any 5th ed. book retained a 0-1 restriction.

hmmm a "kraken heavy grav tank" I think GW has been spying on me.....



oh well, won't be the first time...( checks room for bugs...)

Or you've been spying on them.

Chapter Approved 2004 had a "heavy grav tank" in there, the Swordfish with twin-linked Railguns.

yeah I remember that model, the extended engine mounts with the twin Rails, I liked its paintjob, but never been a fan of 2 big identical guns in a turret only granting you a re-roll to hit...seemed kinda wasteful

But pretty sure I'm not spying on them, since unfortunatly I get most my news here on Dakka

Also, am I the only one who thinks the Kraken is not really that good? For 70 points over a Hammerhead, you get +1 BS and a somewhat improved railgun vs. vehicle lineups, but lose submunitions. Two ion cannons don't make up for no submunitions in my book, though it does make you more resilient to weapon destroyed results. I might take it, but I'm not sure if it's worth 50% more than an ordinary Hammerhead when its weapons are similar or perhaps worse. Maybe if it has at least 14/13 armor?

Kanluwen wrote:

Vladamyr wrote:

Kanluwen wrote: Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!

This comment really angers me, because its what everyone says when Tau FW BS 3 is brought up....I am sorry but thats what we have the best technological equipment....to make up for that......


Rant over

And that puts you on par with a normal Guardsman in terms of shooting. Yes, Veterans have higher--but that's because they've been fighting longer than most Tau will live. Tau lifespans are looking to be equivalent to what human lifespans were during the pre-Industrial Revolution.

Technology by itself can only boost your biological stats so far. Skill and training will push it even further, experience even further, etc.

What you'll likely see is a "Veteran" Fire Warrior unit that can take Rail Rifles and gets BS4.

Tau see in Infrared and Ultraviolet.


It takes them longer to focus on a target that is farther away, it has nothing to do with their accuracey, just the rate at which they fire at long range. Their weapons fire farther than human weapons can accurately aim in terms of Bolters or Lasguns. Tau BS being 3 is a joke.

Tau are described as having good eyesight and being as strong as a Guardsman. The only reason they aren't good in CC is because they find it beneathe them in terms of modern warfare. They are represented on TT as the same STR and Toughness as a guardsman with superior armor.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Vladamyr wrote:

Kanluwen wrote: Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!

This comment really angers me, because its what everyone says when Tau FW BS 3 is brought up....I am sorry but thats what we have the best technological equipment....to make up for that......


Rant over

And that puts you on par with a normal Guardsman in terms of shooting. Yes, Veterans have higher--but that's because they've been fighting longer than most Tau will live. Tau lifespans are looking to be equivalent to what human lifespans were during the pre-Industrial Revolution.

Technology by itself can only boost your biological stats so far. Skill and training will push it even further, experience even further, etc.

What you'll likely see is a "Veteran" Fire Warrior unit that can take Rail Rifles and gets BS4.

Tau see in Infrared and Ultraviolet.

...And?

It takes them longer to focus on a target that is farther away, it has nothing to do with their accuracy, just the rate at which they fire at long range. Their weapons fire farther than human weapons can accurately aim in terms of Bolters or Lasguns. Tau BS being 3 is a joke.

"Taking longer to focus on a target that is farther away" will "have something to do with their accuracy".

The "rate at which they fire at long range" is more dependent on the weapon and training of the individual, not their visual acuity.
Also:
You realize that Lasguns and Bolters are just as accurate as Pulse Rifles, right?
I mean, if you're really wanting to go into the fluff about accuracy--all three are fairly inaccurate when compared to Eldar weaponry. Even Shuriken Pistols are more accurate than a sniper variant longlas or a rail rifle.

The "accurate aim" part that you were talking about earlier though, that comes into effect when you consider how the weapons are used.
Bolters are fired, generally, by Astartes moving at a full run and pouring fire on to suppress a target--which is what the Tau do with their Pulse Carbines. The goal for that kind of fire isn't accuracy. It's suppression--keeping the enemy's head down.

Lasguns are fired, generally, as withering hails of lasfire to thin out targets rushing their lines--once again, same with Tau utilizing their Pulse Rifles.
The goal there, once again, isn't accuracy. It's to try to stagger the enemy and keep them ducking, preventing them overrunning your position.

Tau are described as having good eyesight and being as strong as a Guardsman. The only reason they aren't good in CC is because they find it beneath them in terms of modern warfare. They are represented on TT as the same STR and Toughness as a guardsman with superior armor.

They may "be as strong as a Guardsman", but brute force doesn't mean diddly overall when it comes to CC.
Remember that weapon skill isn't based off strength alone. It's finesse, experience, or just sheer dirty tricks.

Personally though, I would be allowing for Tau and Imperial Guard to opt to use their BS in lieu of WS in CC and use their weapons at close quarters.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:hmmm a "kraken heavy grav tank" I think GW has been spying on me.....



oh well, won't be the first time...( checks room for bugs...)

Is that something you made on your own? A FW kit? Based on a IA book?

chaos0xomega wrote:Yeah, those 'rumors' were believable until you got to the Kraken. Thats a superheavy vehicle if I ever saw one....

Also, the fact that sniper teams are 0-1 kinda confuzzles me, considering no other unit in any 5th ed. book retained a 0-1 restriction.

I believe the 0-1 restriction that he was talking about was the 0-1 restriction on taking 3 teams as only 1 slot.

--As to that giant load of rumor that was just dropped--
Well, I'm having a hard time believing these rumors, but this IS GW we're talking about... *cough*DEEPSTRIKINGLANDRAIDERS*cough*

Some of the changes suggested sound good, as they force you to choose which direction your army takes. If markerlight drones are now that cheap, they'd be a boon to any fire warrior team. But if you can't take drones AND the new kroot hound attachment (I really hope that if that is true, they'll at least release a box of hounds, even if it's not the right number), so you'd have to choose between surviving an assault, or being better at shooting.
And I'm guessing those "permanent markerlight hit on unit" missiles would cost a helluva lot more than that, if they're made.

But some of those rumors, mostly the "either/or" options, of which both are good, seem like good ideas that would lead to many different ways to configure your army. I like, and I look forward to what comes.

as much as I think that Tau should be WS 2 BS 4 (that's right I play Tau and actually want them to be worse at CC than they already are) the weapons themselves aren't any more of less accurate than lasguns or shuriken rifles(a gun can only be as good as the person firing it), but the better eyesight/increased accuracy/training of the tau is evidenced in their longer than average single shot distance(30" as opposed to 24") and the technological power of the gun comes into play as a strength 5 base.

I feel that the thing people don't seem to bring up is the Tau's reliance on their technology. a regular Tau Firewarrior in a shooting tournament with a regular imperial guardsman should win hands down, in my opinion. however, in battle they are looking for and counting on markerlight hits to guide them. it's not that they can't shoot better, but they are trained to shoot a certain way.

based on that I believe that the fix is to make marker drones a little less expensive( both in points cost and in availability on the real world market [the only way to buy them is with stealth suits and you only get one? what?]) and or to allow the Shas'ui to use his markerlight to light up his own teams targets( I.E.: all markerlights are networked). or make it so that drones are still relentless when with infantry squads.

OnDebit wrote:as much as I think that Tau should be WS 2 BS 4 (that's right I play Tau and actually want them to be worse at CC than they already are) the weapons themselves aren't any more of less accurate than lasguns or shuriken rifles(a gun can only be as good as the person firing it), but the better eyesight/increased accuracy/training of the tau is evidenced in their longer than average single shot distance(30" as opposed to 24") and the technological power of the gun comes into play as a strength 5 base.

You clearly don't know very much about weapons. There is a difference in weapon accuracy, moreso than just the accuracy of a user. There are only a handful of weapons in existence that can consistently hit the same spot when mounted in a firing rig (a machine that eliminates the effect of weapon recoil/user skill by keeping it fixed in place, usually used in an environmentally controlled room to mitigate atmospheric effects). Most weapons fire in a spread. Some weapons (such as .50 heavy mg's) are actually engineered to fire in a cone pattern in order to provide better suppressing fire. To say that a pulse rifle is no more or less accurate than a lasgun or shuriken rifle is a fallacy. Theoretically a lasgun would have perfect accuracy (it fires a beam of light in a straight line) not counting things such as atmospheric distortion, etc., while a shuriken rifle would be effected by 'bullet drop' as well as aerodynamics (its a super thin disk). I don't know exactly how a pulse rifle works, but I would assume it would also have its own related accuracy modifiers.

Depending on what kind of ammunition the Pulse rifle fires. If I remember it was suppose to be some sort of energy, which would in theory make it just as accurate as a lasgun (unless specifically designed to shoot in a cone fasion), which also fires energy instead of solid slugs.

Personally I would love to see Tau gain a section of wargear similar to the Arcane Wargear of the Dark Eldar, although less on "arcane" and more on technological achievements, mainly to migate the fact that they do not possess psykers. As opposed to weapons it could be mroe akin to Eldar psychic powers, which enhances their own troops rather than hamper enemies (which would also be in line with their whole "I'm practical" schtick).

Pulse rifles use bundles of graviton energy to make the bullets suck their way onto targets by a kind of warp vacuum effect.

There's no such thing as a near miss, because it becomes a hit.

Anyway, enough "fluff" crap about why Tau should or shouldn't be this, that and the other.

They should work in the game. They should have an equal chance with other armies.

Considering the disadvantages of rubbish melee and no space magic, this means Tau need improved movement and firepower, and/or some kind of melee and space magic defence systems. All this can be done in a fluffy way.

Those rumors seem oddly similar to these...
http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html

"the pulse rifle uses an induction field to propel a particle, which reacts by breaking down to create a plasma pulse as it leaves the barrel."

I'm not sure how that would react to physics, but there is also the fact that light (from a lasgun lets say) diffuses the farther it gets from it's source. the lasgun shot is concentrated when it leaves the barrel, but it's still going to cone out and get weaker the farther away the target is. either way all of these guns, lasgun, shuriken rifle, bolter, pulse rifle, etc. are close enough, accuracy wise, that I still feel it's safe to say that they are equal in that regard even if they are balanced in slightly different ways.

03b wrote:Those rumors seem oddly similar to these...
http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html

Good find! And the author acknowledged it to be an April's fool joke:

Kroxitau wrote:
Looking over the current BA codex, it appears I was too conservative with the power level of the "5th edition Tau codex"

I do like a lot of the ideas in this version (all modesty aside)

OSH- yeah stealth USR makes a lot of sense on those units

I really think that dark eldar are going to be the best out flankers, and with blood angels being the best deep strikers (landraiders!? dreadnought troops with fleet!?) the next codices to come out are going to have a bunch of anti-null deployment in them. Ways to attack deep strikers as they come in or delay or mess around with deep striking and out flankers. IG have some elements of this, as do Nids, but I think Tau are gonna be all about preventing the enemy from effectively using null deployment tactics. We will see.

Personally i think the Ethereal needs to be seriously looked at in terms of game play effectiveness. Although an April Fool's joke, i think blind to the warp is an awesome ability (stupid lash...)

So the attempt to make a substantial post here turned out to be a blatant fraud and copied from someone else.
Posts like this give you a bad reputation here!

Way to make me happy, then prank me. Thanks a lot, Guyperson.

If people want to discuss possible Tau Codex ideas there are several threads in the Proposed Rules forum.

Starting with this one...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326557.page

IMO there are heaps of good ideas already available. GW could make a good codex by taking and refining some of the things that have been suggested in the different threads.

One thing that's always bugged me about the Tau is Pulse Carbines.

They're the perfect place to start compensating for Tau's lack of CC ability.