Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

1hadhq wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:


The BT's are loyal to *their* interpretation of their duty to the Emperor, nobody will deny that. It doesn't necessarily mean they are loyal to the Imperium or it's greater well being.

The Imperium cannot be separated from the Emperor. The BT answer first and foremost to the Emperor, like every space marine did pre-heresy. Their interpretation may be 1 millenia old, still its not as twisted as the imperial cause was from the imperial truth to the
actual way the Imperium operates. Therefore loyality to the Emperor = loyality to the Imperium.
To question the Emperor never turned out well for those who did.

The BT are loyal to the Imperiums well beeing, as seen in the apostasy.
They actively hunt down threats to the Imperium.

NO, the Imperium is run by the high lords, and the big E rules in name alone. To be against the Imperium does not mean you are against the Emperor, and vice versa. The Soul Drinkers are as pure as it gets, and as loyal to the emperor as a custode, but they are declared traitors by the IoM, and view it as corrupt.

Or the Alpha Legion. Loyal to the Emperor, but not the IoM. The only difference being that the Alpha Legion is Chaos.

Kroothawk wrote:How about a thread fantasizing about the Black Templer chapter completely extinguished and maimed by a Tyranid fleet. Not out of hate of course, just to check facts

Then make a new thread about that topic every 4 weeks, just to check the facts again

Sure, I'll bite!

Fly in battle-barge.
Detonate warp-engines.
????
PROFIT!

Dominus Astra FTW

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Sure, I'll bite!

Fly in battle-barge.
Detonate warp-engines.
????
PROFIT!

Dominus Astra FTW

All praise the martyrs from Astra...
Long they live in glory...

I've actually read through the whole thread, including the rather silly references to Cuba and sharks.

Here's a different take on the situation: if the IoM gathered sufficient forces to ensure victory over the Tau, how many IoM worlds elsewhere would the IoM lose to other threats?

Or, if you'd like a different way of asking the question: could the IoM even afford to wipe the Tau out?

Tau, as such, aren't a very large threat. They are comparatively small and lack warp travel, and as such spread rather slowly. They also tend not to bring overwhelming forces to conquer worlds where they aren't welcome or commit equivalent of exterminatus, and as such by large can be afforded to live.
Their biggest threat, I'd imagine, is subjugating IoM worlds into switching sides.
Essentially, they can be contained without a great cost of resources.

Mahtamori wrote:
Tau, as such, aren't a very large threat. They are comparatively small and lack warp travel, and as such spread rather slowly. They also tend not to bring overwhelming forces to conquer worlds where they aren't welcome or commit equivalent of exterminatus, and as such by large can be afforded to live.
Their biggest threat, I'd imagine, is subjugating IoM worlds into switching sides.
Essentially, they can be contained without a great cost of resources.

That's not a good strategy either...
If we contain them, they will only go more advanced than they already are.
And since when containment don't require massive amount of forces?

Mahtamori wrote: They also tend not to bring overwhelming forces to conquer worlds where they aren't welcome or commit equivalent of exterminatus, and as such by large can be afforded to live.

Afforded to live? Black Templars, bless your swords and bolters, The Great Crusade will never end. Suffer not the Alien to Live! For The Emperor!

In all seriousnees, it's the Black Templars so resources or 'the big picture' don't usually come into it.

TBH if the Templars actually somehow manage to gather all their forces at one place without their previous deployments missing them the Tau wouldn't stand a chance. The main issue is that the Tau don't have good enough inter-system communications (assuming that what has been said in this thread is true), which means that the massive Templar fleet would annihilate anything in their path before they're able to call in reinforcements. When the Tau finally managed to mount a counter-offensive, they will already be massively weakened.



And yes, I'm biased (just look at my Avatar ) but I don't care. Shoot me.

another thing to consider is that Marine chapters, as a rule, don't take orders from the Inquisition or the High Lords.

the High Lords COULD order a marine chapter about, but they have better things to do.

the Inquisition's authority, in practice, doesn't extend to Space Marine chapters. on the books, its anyone's guess as they seem to be of the same level of authority with the Inquisition just being the one that actually uses its authority and as such has the illusion of greater power.


so, what the BTs do can't really be considered renegade because they are doing what other marine chapters do. just they do it on a larger scale.

People I have an idea....

Why don't we send Angry Marines with Commissar FuckLaw instead of BT?

What do you say?

im2randomghgh wrote:

NO, the Imperium is run by the high lords, and the big E rules in name alone. To be against the Imperium does not mean you are against the Emperor, and vice versa. The Soul Drinkers are as pure as it gets, and as loyal to the emperor as a custode, but they are declared traitors by the IoM, and view it as corrupt.

Or the Alpha Legion. Loyal to the Emperor, but not the IoM. The only difference being that the Alpha Legion is Chaos.

Seriously?

Sould drinkers and purity =
Alpha legion = prove it.

The high lords rule in HIS name, without an Emperor they got nothing to say.
And last time a heretic like vandire tried to usurp the IoM, the BT opposed this.
So if the high lords aren't serving as they should, they will be replaced.

But why should the BT care for this nonsense of "independent = renegade". ?
The ad mech would be interested in a crusade, just scientifically of course.
The Inquisition will protect the Tau if they serve a purpose against nids, if they don't or this expired, you see the Inquisiton on the front of that crusade and sanctioning it. Remember it was Kryptman who canceled the DGC, but hes no longer in charge.

Grey Templar wrote:another thing to consider is that Marine chapters, as a rule, don't take orders from the Inquisition or the High Lords.

the High Lords COULD order a marine chapter about, but they have better things to do.

the Inquisition's authority, in practice, doesn't extend to Space Marine chapters. on the books, its anyone's guess as they seem to be of the same level of authority with the Inquisition just being the one that actually uses its authority and as such has the illusion of greater power.


so, what the BTs do can't really be considered renegade because they are doing what other marine chapters do. just they do it on a larger scale.

Nothing in the entire IoM is immune to the Inquisition barring the High Lords. Nothing. Not AdMech. Not Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:People I have an idea....

Why don't we send Angry Marines with Commissar FuckLaw instead of BT?

What do you say?

The Tau would die in seconds. Angry marines destroy EVERYTHING. I AM SO fething ANGRY!!!! ALL THE TIME!!!!!

O LOOK, IT'S THE BANNER OF feth YOU! BONUS ATTACKS FOR ALL!

im2randomghgh wrote:
Nothing in the entire IoM is immune to the Inquisition barring the High Lords. Nothing. Not AdMech. Not Marines.

The Custodes are, aren't they? I'd imagine that they'd laugh at an Inquisitor "ordering" them around and then shoo them away out the nearest secret door or something.

1hadhq wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

NO, the Imperium is run by the high lords, and the big E rules in name alone. To be against the Imperium does not mean you are against the Emperor, and vice versa. The Soul Drinkers are as pure as it gets, and as loyal to the emperor as a custode, but they are declared traitors by the IoM, and view it as corrupt.

Or the Alpha Legion. Loyal to the Emperor, but not the IoM. The only difference being that the Alpha Legion is Chaos.

Seriously?

Sould drinkers and purity =
Alpha legion = prove it.

The Soul Drinkers HAVE suffered mutations, but are as loyal (if not more so) than most chapters are to the emperor. The only reason they are Excommunicate Tratoris is that the AdMech tried to steal a chapter relic, and they responded with force.

...Pretty easy, their battle-cry is FOR THE EMPEROR! and the reason they turned traitor was because they were shown a vision in which Horus killed the Emperor and was so remorseful that he launched a crusade that destroyed Chaos. They are loyal to the Emperor and their primarch. No one else...

Also, Lysander.

Also, this subject is completely opinion, but I feel that if instead of 6000 BT it was 5000 BT+1000 IF than it would be auto-win.

Reason #1-Lysander
Reason #2-Dey is good at siege
Reason #3-The Phalanx
Reason #4-the IF rock at duels
Reason #5-Yellow
Reason #6-PRUSSIANS IN SPACE




Automatically Appended Next Post:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Nothing in the entire IoM is immune to the Inquisition barring the High Lords. Nothing. Not AdMech. Not Marines.

The Custodes are, aren't they? I'd imagine that they'd laugh at an Inquisitor "ordering" them around and then shoo them away out the nearest secret door or something.

The point is moot, since they are 100% immune to corruption and are to guard the Emperor and never leave to Terra by order of the Emperor, so they can't be moved elsewhere, wouldn't be moved elsewhere, and would never, ever face corruption.

I still think it would be epic though-the march of the Custodes. 10,000 near-primarch powerful being marching into the eye, coming back with khorne's head on a platter


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the reason they stopped making custodes was that it was too time-consuming, but I wonder why they haven't made any since the HH? They've had plenty of time...

This will happen as soon as the Tau insult a black templar, this is what happened to the last person who did so.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:TBH if the Templars actually somehow manage to gather all their forces at one place without their previous deployments missing them the Tau wouldn't stand a chance. The main issue is that the Tau don't have good enough inter-system communications (assuming that what has been said in this thread is true), which means that the massive Templar fleet would annihilate anything in their path before they're able to call in reinforcements. When the Tau finally managed to mount a counter-offensive, they will already be massively weakened.



And yes, I'm biased (just look at my Avatar ) but I don't care. Shoot me.

Again, 6000 troops and a couple dozen starships designed for orbital assault are going to prevail over even several billion trained Tau soldiers (i.e. each Space Marine is going to have to match a million or more Fire Warriors... ) with advanced weaponry and a navy of hundreds of vessels designed for ship to ship combat? that's a wee bit silly.

Vaktathi wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:TBH if the Templars actually somehow manage to gather all their forces at one place without their previous deployments missing them the Tau wouldn't stand a chance. The main issue is that the Tau don't have good enough inter-system communications (assuming that what has been said in this thread is true), which means that the massive Templar fleet would annihilate anything in their path before they're able to call in reinforcements. When the Tau finally managed to mount a counter-offensive, they will already be massively weakened.



And yes, I'm biased (just look at my Avatar ) but I don't care. Shoot me.

Again, 6000 troops and a couple dozen starships designed for orbital assault are going to prevail over even several billion trained Tau soldiers (i.e. each Space Marine is going to have to match a million or more Fire Warriors... ) with advanced weaponry and a navy of hundreds of vessels designed for ship to ship combat? that's a wee bit silly.

QFT

Hmm... The first problem is the nature of the Damocles Gulf itself. Imperial ship losses to hazards would be, given what little we know, approx 15% of the total ships sent due to warp events.

Also, scattering appears to be a serious issue exiting the warp in the gulf, meaning that depending on if they encounter tau ships on returning to the Materium, they may suffer additional looses due to being destroyed in detail before they can reform into a fleet.

A BT only force would be dead before it could land someplace. Remember that current SM ships are glorified troop transports, as opposed to the giant fleets they commanded during the Great Crusade. The Kor'vattra would tear them apart.


Even with full Imperial support, it would be easier to cleanse the Eye of Terror. Literally. The astrogeography of the gulf would force the Imperium to fight across a very narrow front, unable to bring it's full power to bare. It would turn into a meat grinder in the vein of Thermopylae. Particularly since the Tau have superior weaponry for the majority of their forces.

BaronIveagh wrote:Hmm... The first problem is the nature of the Damocles Gulf itself. Imperial ship losses to hazards would be, given what little we know, approx 15% of the total ships sent due to warp events.

Also, scattering appears to be a serious issue exiting the warp in the gulf, meaning that depending on if they encounter tau ships on returning to the Materium, they may suffer additional looses due to being destroyed in detail before they can reform into a fleet.

A BT only force would be dead before it could land someplace. Remember that current SM ships are glorified troop transports, as opposed to the giant fleets they commanded during the Great Crusade. The Kor'vattra would tear them apart.


Even with full Imperial support, it would be easier to cleanse the Eye of Terror. Literally. The astrogeography of the gulf would force the Imperium to fight across a very narrow front, unable to bring it's full power to bare. It would turn into a meat grinder in the vein of Thermopylae. Particularly since the Tau have superior weaponry for the majority of their forces.

QFT

Unless the IF lent them the Phalanx, which alone would be able to hold a mid-sized kor'vattra on more or less even grounds.

It is a small moon, filled with guns, and 1,000 SMs.

Basically the Death Star.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing I can see being a one-on-one challenge to the phalanx is a blackstone fortress, and even then terms would be even enough.

im2randomghgh wrote:

QFT

Unless the IF lent them the Phalanx, which alone would be able to hold a mid-sized kor'vattra on more or less even grounds.

It is a small moon, filled with guns, and 1,000 SMs.

Basically the Death Star.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing I can see being a one-on-one challenge to the phalanx is a blackstone fortress, and even then terms would be even enough.

Given the Tau's proclivities for attack craft, the Phalanx would be in trouble (remember that Tau battleships are primarily carriers. Yamato, anyone?). Unlike most Fleets in 40k, they don't 'do' line of battle. And blackstones fall easy enough. Activated or not. (On pairs or trios or not, just avoid the beam)

Vaktathi wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:TBH if the Templars actually somehow manage to gather all their forces at one place without their previous deployments missing them the Tau wouldn't stand a chance. The main issue is that the Tau don't have good enough inter-system communications (assuming that what has been said in this thread is true), which means that the massive Templar fleet would annihilate anything in their path before they're able to call in reinforcements. When the Tau finally managed to mount a counter-offensive, they will already be massively weakened.



And yes, I'm biased (just look at my Avatar ) but I don't care. Shoot me.

Again, 6000 troops and a couple dozen starships designed for orbital assault are going to prevail over even several billion trained Tau soldiers (i.e. each Space Marine is going to have to match a million or more Fire Warriors... ) with advanced weaponry and a navy of hundreds of vessels designed for ship to ship combat? that's a wee bit silly.

thats the problem,

the Tau don't HAVE billions and billions of troops.

the 3rd sphere expansion had 1 million Fire Caste Warriors at its heart. that isn't alot.

the Tau only have a few dozen planets and only about half are fully populated, meaning their population couldn't be more then 10-20 billion.

the Fire Caste isn't the most numerous(thats the Earth Caste) so we can only put the number of Tau Fire Caste at somewhere in the 2-5 billion range.

once casualities begin to pile up the Tau will fall.


the Tau are insignificant and idealistic parasites in a galaxy that punishes such weakness with extinction. the timing is unknown, but their fate is certain. to be nothing more then a chapter in Imperial History books and stuffed museum specimens kept behind stasis fields.

Grey Templar wrote:

thats the problem,

the Tau don't HAVE billions and billions of troops.

the 3rd sphere expansion had 1 million Fire Caste Warriors at its heart. that isn't alot.

the Tau only have a few dozen planets and only about half are fully populated, meaning their population couldn't be more then 10-20 billion.

the Fire Caste isn't the most numerous(thats the Earth Caste) so we can only put the number of Tau Fire Caste at somewhere in the 2-5 billion range.

once casualities begin to pile up the Tau will fall.


the Tau are insignificant and idealistic parasites in a galaxy that punishes such weakness with extinction. the timing is unknown, but their fate is certain. to be nothing more then a chapter in Imperial History books and stuffed museum specimens kept behind stasis fields.

Again, you forget that you have to deliver those ground troops. If they're destroyed en route, it doesn't matter if they outnumber the Tau by billions to one. And the Gulf is an idea shooting gallery for defenders, since, due to the differences between Tau and In warp drives, they can move through the area freely, while IN cannot.

Further, IN DOES NOT outnumber the Tau in space the same way they do on the ground. IG may have billions of guardsmen, but an entire sector of Imperial Space is lucky to have five battleships with maybe one hundred warships grand total. This means that, as far as battleships go, the Tau outnumber the combined fleets of the Ultima Segmentum, since their primary battleship is also their primary exploration vessel and primary trade ship, just fitted differently. And since they're modular, thsi means that with very little effort, they can hold the Gulf indefinitely.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Again, you forget that you have to deliver those ground troops. If they're destroyed en route, it doesn't matter if they outnumber the Tau by billions to one. And the Gulf is an idea shooting gallery for defenders, since, due to the differences between Tau and In warp drives, they can move through the area freely, while IN cannot.

Further, IN DOES NOT outnumber the Tau in space the same way they do on the ground. IG may have billions of guardsmen, but an entire sector of Imperial Space is lucky to have five battleships with maybe one hundred warships grand total. This means that, as far as battleships go, the Tau outnumber the combined fleets of the Ultima Segmentum, since their primary battleship is also their primary exploration vessel and primary trade ship, just fitted differently. And since they're modular, thsi means that with very little effort, they can hold the Gulf indefinitely.

What? Source of this claims. I have hear everything now. Not only that Tau Fire Cast outnumber IG, their fleet is biiger than the Imperial one....
I have read on Lexicanum that for every lost Imperial battle ship 8 more are already stand to replace him. Further more, how can Tau have bigger fleet than entire Ultima? And further more Ultima Segmentum - biggest of all? Tau DO not outnumber Imperial when it comes to ships ( well, at least they outnumber them at Taros and Nimbosa ), if That kind of Crusade happened at least several thousand ships will be send, along with several hundred battleships.... I know that because that's standard Imperial space force when it comes to crusade ( see Badab War or Black Crusade for reference ), they will send even less to fight Tau...

Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, page 100

Because the Explorer, the basic Tau battleship, is also their basic every other ship. Every freighter, hauler, etc is all the same class. And since it's modular, any of them can be switched over to 'battleship'. It proved so successful that they really never considered building anything else until Ork terrorships swarmed a few under due to their slow speed, so now they also build smaller ships to protect it.

And, the loss of even one battleship can be crippling to an IN fleet. The loss of the Tempest's Child helped extended the Angevin Crusade by decades.

Taros was an Experimental fleet that the Tau were testing against IN, according to the section on that. IA:3 has several fluff conflicts with BFG and BL. Most notably the tau transport and the battles of the Damocles Gulf Crusade. These were partially sorted out in the BFG FAQ 2010, but since that has not yet been 'officially' adopted by GW by putting it on their site we can only say 'fluff conflict' and shrug.

Grey Templar wrote:thats the problem,

the Tau don't HAVE billions and billions of troops.

the 3rd sphere expansion had 1 million Fire Caste Warriors at its heart. that isn't alot.

the Tau only have a few dozen planets and only about half are fully populated, meaning their population couldn't be more then 10-20 billion.

the Fire Caste isn't the most numerous(thats the Earth Caste) so we can only put the number of Tau Fire Caste at somewhere in the 2-5 billion range.

once casualities begin to pile up the Tau will fall.


the Tau are insignificant and idealistic parasites in a galaxy that punishes such weakness with extinction. the timing is unknown, but their fate is certain. to be nothing more then a chapter in Imperial History books and stuffed museum specimens kept behind stasis fields.

The Tau are insignificant beside the Imperium, yes, but they're still more powerful than the entirety of the Space Marines. The scale goes something like:

Chaos Space Marines (few tens of thousands; each more or less equal to a Space Marine)< Space Marines (one million; each equal to twelve real humans in physical ability and training) < Tau (hundreds of millions to low billions of soldiers on the outside; slightly inferior to Guardsmen in training, equipment, and support) < Tyranids (hard to quantify, but soundly beaten by Eldar fleets, as well as conventional Imperial forces, at every turn) < Eldar (military forces unknown, total population in the hundreds of billions to low trillions; individual strength difficult to quantify due to lack of descriptive fluff) < Dark Eldar (roughly the same total population as Eldar, almost entirely militarized; individual strength difficult to quantify due to lack of descriptive fluff) < Imperial Guard (numbers in excess of ten trillion; elite, well equipped and supported, forces fielded in large numbers, expected to soundly defeat still more numerous forces, generally succeed) < Imperial Navy (larger than the Guard in terms of manpower, have more ships capable of reducing worlds to charred wastelands in a matter of days than there are space marines, smaller warships are practically numberless)

Daemons and Necrons don't really fit on the scale, since the first exist almost entirely in another dimension and so are largely irrelevant and the latter has unknown forces, due to still being in a state of hibernation. Orks would top the scale were they unified through sheer numbers alone, but spend more time fighting amongst themselves than they do fighting anyone else, and most ork forces encountered are small enough for small contingents of Guard to put down.

BaronIveagh wrote:Again, you forget that you have to deliver those ground troops. If they're destroyed en route, it doesn't matter if they outnumber the Tau by billions to one. And the Gulf is an idea shooting gallery for defenders, since, due to the differences between Tau and In warp drives, they can move through the area freely, while IN cannot.

Further, IN DOES NOT outnumber the Tau in space the same way they do on the ground. IG may have billions of guardsmen, but an entire sector of Imperial Space is lucky to have five battleships with maybe one hundred warships grand total. This means that, as far as battleships go, the Tau outnumber the combined fleets of the Ultima Segmentum, since their primary battleship is also their primary exploration vessel and primary trade ship, just fitted differently. And since they're modular, thsi means that with very little effort, they can hold the Gulf indefinitely.

Tau warships are, in a word, terrible. They're small troop transports with tiny railguns duct taped to them. They're inferior to the run of the mill Naval warships, which outnumber them, to say nothing of the smallest Navy warships, which still pack more firepower and are yet more numerous still.

BaronIveagh wrote:Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, page 100

Because the Explorer, the basic Tau battleship, is also their basic every other ship. Every freighter, hauler, etc is all the same class. And since it's modular, any of them can be switched over to 'battleship'. It proved so successful that they really never considered building anything else until Ork terrorships swarmed a few under due to their slow speed, so now they also build smaller ships to protect it.

And, the loss of even one battleship can be crippling to an IN fleet. The loss of the Tempest's Child helped extended the Angevin Crusade by decades.

Good fluff, but still that doesn't mean anything...
Tau Fleet still is not bigger than IoM fleet...
And reason because that crusade is extended for so long is because it was manor and it was not give any reinforcements. If your statement if Imperium lose one battleship and fail to replace him, then Cadia would fall right after the heresy, and Macragge would be eaten by Tyranids and so on....
And even if Tau have that magic trick of turning it into the most basic ship into the most basic warship doesn't mean nothing. IN still outnumber Tau gravelly, and in case of crusade - on 1 Tau ship would come 10 Imperial Battleships minimum ( not counting other ships ).

indeed, the Tau navy, while its vessels do have powerful weaponry, is poorly armored and has no boarding capabilities.

Tau weapons are capable of damaging IoM warships, but IoM warships are meant to take horrendous damage.


if a Tau warship is boarded the ship is basically destroyed.


the Tau have only recently been building dedicated warships and these are barely keeping up with existing races ships in term of capabilities. all their previous ships have been civilian craft with guns slapped on.

Well I have a thought....
Why don't they just declare exterminatus and go nuke happy?
Cheap, effective, and you don't even need to get on the ground.

StormRaven wrote:Well I have a thought....
Why don't they just declare exterminatus and go nuke happy?
Cheap, effective, and you don't even need to get on the ground.

Because that's no fun.

Brother Coa wrote:

Good fluff, but still that doesn't mean anything...
Tau Fleet still is not bigger than IoM fleet...
And reason because that crusade is extended for so long is because it was manor and it was not give any reinforcements. If your statement if Imperium lose one battleship and fail to replace him, then Cadia would fall right after the heresy, and Macragge would be eaten by Tyranids and so on....
And even if Tau have that magic trick of turning it into the most basic ship into the most basic warship doesn't mean nothing. IN still outnumber Tau gravelly, and in case of crusade - on 1 Tau ship would come 10 Imperial Battleships minimum ( not counting other ships ).

Dragging out my copy of Codex: Eye of Terror...

Um, no. Neither side fields more then 100 battleships. And this is the 13th Black Crusade!

Battlefleets Cadia, Scarus, Agrippa, and Coronus are the largest and most supplied battlefleets in the Imperium outside of Terra itself. Cadia has 12 battleships. Corona has 7, Scarus only has 5.

By comparison, Battlefleet Gothic itself, as the supposedly 'average' sector fleet, has 3 (Divine Right, Bloodhawk, and Cardinal Boras)

The Explorer has 24 different mks alone.

those are massive Battleships.

the Imperium has thousands of Cruisers, heavy cruisers, and light cruisers.

then millions of escort class vessels.


a Cobra Class escort can be built in a day. the Tau can't match that kind of production schedule.