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including spartan 3's? because there is that gray team, MC, the 3 or 4(or 6) in that tomb. I forget, how many Spartan 3's survived, like 4? from ghosts of onyx. srry, my halo history is getting rustier everyday...

A lot lower, maybe only those three or four. They were effectively designed to die on their missions. There are two with unconfirmed fates.

i know that they got owned on their first one, werent there like 300 and 4 got out... on their mission assaulting that factory...that was a good use of funds and resources UNSC, kudos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i know that they got owned on their first one, werent there like 300 and 4 got out... on their mission assaulting that factory...that was a good use of funds and resources UNSC, kudos.

In the first total of 11/14, it included only SPARTAN IIs. There are potentially 3/5 SPARTAN IIIs, with potentially surviving SPARTAN Is.

Agreed, that is sound logic, now lets do the numbers game... 25 Spartans(giving them some leeway) vs. around 1,000,000 SM (maybe 2,000,000 if counting chaos). I think that factor leans in SM favor. but this is a battle between a Spartan and a SM, also, it was never specified as Master chief in the OP, and most of the other spartans arent nearly as awesomly bada** as Master Chief, imo. So if we take your average Spartan vs average SM, its close...but i think i gotta give it to space marines just because their tech is around 38000 years more advanced

dajobe wrote:Agreed, that is sound logic, now lets do the numbers game... 25 Spartans(giving them some leeway) vs. around 1,000,000 SM (maybe 2,000,000 if counting chaos). I think that factor leans in SM favor. but this is a battle between a Spartan and a SM, also, it was never specified as Master chief in the OP, and most of the other spartans arent nearly as awesomly bada** as Master Chief, imo. So if we take your average Spartan vs average SM, its close...but i think i gotta give it to space marines just because their tech is around 38000 years more advanced

As I pointed out on page one, if we're to compare MC to a marine it'll have to be the equivalent awesome-dude in the marines, so Master Chief vs., for example, Mephiston. My money's on Meph.

Mine too.

I have to say that whilst Power Armour is older, and more complicated, that doesn't necessarily mean that its more advanced or better. I believe that it offers better base protection, far better, but a SPARTANS energy shields are a fairly advanced piece of tech that narrows the gap by a significant margin.

iproxtaco wrote: I believe that it offers better base protection, far better, but a SPARTANS energy shields are a fairly advanced piece of tech that narrows the gap by a significant margin.

I believe you are severly overestimating the advantage offered from those shield. The first or second Horus Heresy books has Marines fighting a human "high-tech" civilization that utilizes a form of "powered armour" that includes energy shields that offer both ballistic protection and invisibility. Marines bone them anyhow.

i dont think you can take it from table top rules, the spess mahreens are powered down in the TTG so that other people don't need a lorry to transport their models to make it even, if (and i know i risk being hated for this) CSM and SM are considered equal, we can take from fluff that CC Gaunt a mere Humie can hold his own against an aspiring champ in single combat ( first book of the lost omnibus) however gaunt is augmented by having a magical power sword that vibrates when he's in fanger ( necropolis) so i would say that speed wise a SPARTAN ans a SM/CSM are equal, strength, surely goes to the SM, whislt combat ability is equal due to rigouras training on both parties, i would say that in unarmed combat it would be say 7/10 for the SM however in unarmed un armoured combat, i would say 9/10 for the SM as he is still pretty solid whislt a spartan is mere flesh

On a somewhat related note, can anybody tell me where i can read about SPARTAN training and creation? The wiki seems quite vague on this.

fall of reach book, its pretty good, its tells of spartan II, ghosts of onyx tells of spartan III training

Fairfeldia wrote:combat ability is equal due to rigouras training on both parties

Maybe a neophyte, but a full-fledged Battle Brother will have decades (if not centuries) more experience, against a far more varied collection of foes.

Guys, you are all missing the point. It's not matter how much advanced shields SPARTAN has. His armor is not more advanced than that of Space Marine, not because it's 38.000 years in the future - but because it can take huge amount of punishment. And you are all forgetting that this is in melee combat, what chance SPARTAN has in melee against warrior who is trained for around 200 years to fight in both melee and range with weapons that makes our's today look like stick and stones.
The question is also: "without weapons". So in pure melee who has the most chance of winning. Here we must count training, strength and armor. And beside the fact that SPARTAN is faster then a Marine ( he is not after all a ton heavy ) Marine is superior in all other aspects. One punch from his fist in SPARTAN is enough to kill him ( genetically modified body with superior reflexes means that he can hit him, and hit him hard ).

Prove me wrong.

1) for not heavy, his armor does weigh around 1.5 tons if i remember correctly
2) for the armor lock people: spartan armor locks, space marine walks behind him and donkey punches him the second it stops
3)shields: since heroic is intended to be real in halo, and elites own spartans with 1-2 hits, and SM are a ton stronger than elites, SM KO's spartan 1 hit
4) Spartan being faster: not really sure how to measure this one, both are enhanced by their armour, and people that say MC dodged bullets, sidestepping out of the way of a gun is different than starting to move once the bullet has left the barrel

SM, no contest

zxwarrior wrote:Well you all need to see that spartans are actualy faster and have a personal shield. That can be hit by a small nuclear explosion and still be working if set to max. Master never does that because when he does set it that high the shield would make hitting and grabbing things impossible because it causes him to have no friction. Space marine has strength and armor but is slightly slower and has a blind spot. which is his back. Spartans don't have this problem. Also the old saying that "a suit of armor is olny as good as its weakest point" holds great truth in this fight. both have lightly armored joints. But the spartan has a shield to help deflect hits to these regions for a time before it shuts down.

I agree with the above but in a fire fight, the Spartan may have a personal shield that can only protect him while not under fire for projectiles and energy weapons, (or small nukes) but frag grenade in game will knock out half of the shields and don't space marine bolters have explosive rounds? and if they did't they are basically larger than a 50cal round while the Spartan assault rifle fires much smaller rounds. in Close Combat if the space marine lands a blow no dought the spartan is out of the park but if the spartan has an energy sword than the marine would have a problem.

I love 40k as much as i love the Halo universe but i have to side with the Space Marine

this thread is assuming that is hand to hand, no weapons, because if spartan had access to energy sword, then marine would have access to power sword or thunder hammer, or lightning claws, and i'd take those over energy sword

dajobe wrote:this thread is assuming that is hand to hand, no weapons, because if spartan had access to energy sword, then marine would have access to power sword or thunder hammer, or lightning claws, and i'd take those over energy sword

Energy sword is a covenant weapon though. So standard loadout would be assault rifles, battle rifles, pistols, rocket launcher and maybe Spartan laser



I dont know why people are saying how the Spartan would win because he has a shield, when I play online, 2 shots to the head from a rifle and its down, another 2 shots and I'm dead.

Toastedandy wrote:
I dont know why people are saying how the Spartan would win because he has a shield, when I play online, 2 shots to the head from a rifle and its down, another 2 shots and I'm dead.

Because gameplay =/= fluff.

Zweischneid wrote:

iproxtaco wrote: I believe that it offers better base protection, far better, but a SPARTANS energy shields are a fairly advanced piece of tech that narrows the gap by a significant margin.

I believe you are severly overestimating the advantage offered from those shield. The first or second Horus Heresy books has Marines fighting a human "high-tech" civilization that utilizes a form of "powered armour" that includes energy shields that offer both ballistic protection and invisibility. Marines bone them anyhow.

I can see nothing that implies an energy shield. Powered armour yes, invisibility yes, that's if we're thinking of the same enemy. That said, I've not really said too much about the energy shield, just that it's fairly advanced. A brute Shot is the closest equivalent to the Bolter. So, if the shield can take 4-5 hits from that at medium range, it could take maybe 4 from a bolter before failing. The shield plus the armour certainly doesn't give the same amount of protection as Power Armour, but it's not an absolutely huge gap between the two.

On strength, how strong is a Space Marine? Spartans are incredibly strong, they can lift near two tons in armour. I would guess at Space Marines being stronger, anyone have any idea?

I propose that the battle take place inside of a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

iproxtaco wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:

iproxtaco wrote: I believe that it offers better base protection, far better, but a SPARTANS energy shields are a fairly advanced piece of tech that narrows the gap by a significant margin.

I believe you are severly overestimating the advantage offered from those shield. The first or second Horus Heresy books has Marines fighting a human "high-tech" civilization that utilizes a form of "powered armour" that includes energy shields that offer both ballistic protection and invisibility. Marines bone them anyhow.

I can see nothing that implies an energy shield. Powered armour yes, invisibility yes, that's if we're thinking of the same enemy. That said, I've not really said too much about the energy shield, just that it's fairly advanced. A brute Shot is the closest equivalent to the Bolter. So, if the shield can take 4-5 hits from that at medium range, it could take maybe 4 from a bolter before failing. The shield plus the armour certainly doesn't give the same amount of protection as Power Armour, but it's not an absolutely huge gap between the two.

Carapace Armour can take a few hits from a bolter before going down. Power Armour is vastly superior to Carapace Armour. A bolter can fire 4 rounds in well under a second, meaning that it'd tear through that level of protection. Thus the SPARTAN:s are either fethed or we've got the wrong assumptions of the capability of their armour.

remember people that Advanced =/= Better.



I will concede that the Sparten's armor is more advanced then Power Armor, but that really means nothing.


an On Board energy shield. cool, but since it can only take a couple of direct hits before failing it really doesn't do much.

AI system. again, its cool. it allows him to fire weaponry more accuratly. Space Marine PA has a similer system.



Protection. its quite obvious that the primary protection element the armor offers is the shield. the armor itself is a last resort defense. this is plain because Sparten's use cover. if the armor was truely as awsome as is claimed they wouldn't hug cover so much.

Space Marines hug cover too, but thats only because there are plenty of weapons in the 40k universe capable of cracking ceramite.




the Space Marine relys on his incredibly sturdy armor against things which can't penetrate it and cover for things that can.

Spartens seem alot more vulnerable to small arms fire and hug cover to match.

Screw this, as long as we're playing, "My fiction can beat your fiction," I'm taking the nuclear option:

How many SPESS MEHREENS would it take to defeat Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

Space Marine PA resists Radiation.


the Space Marine himself can also survive a massive radiation dose.

Grey Templar wrote:
AI system. again, its cool. it allows him to fire weaponry more accuratly. Space Marine PA has a similer system.

if the armor was truely as awsome as is claimed they wouldn't hug cover so much.

It also greatly increases their reaction time, among other things.

They use cover because it is intelligent to do so, regardless of the strength of your armor.

themocaw wrote:Screw this, as long as we're playing, "My fiction can beat your fiction," I'm taking the nuclear option:

How many SPESS MEHREENS would it take to defeat Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

/thread

Or if he's too busy, put my money on the Daleks.

and how does an AI system decrease your reaction time?


is it using a neural interface to directly project the information in his brain?


because a simple warning in the HUD is actually going to make your reaction time longer as you have to read the info, process it, and then react.

themocaw wrote:Screw this, as long as we're playing, "My fiction can beat your fiction," I'm taking the nuclear option:

How many SPESS MEHREENS would it take to defeat Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

One. His fluff is written by Mat Ward.

Grey Templar wrote:and how does an AI system decrease your reaction time?


is it using a neural interface to directly project the information in his brain?

The Fall of Reach says that they transfer the impulses in the brain directly to the suit, greatly increasing their reaction time.

To the point where the MC and Cortana were able to slap an anti-tank missile out of the air.