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Grey Templar wrote:remember people that Advanced =/= Better.



I will concede that the Sparten's armor is more advanced then Power Armor, but that really means nothing.


an On Board energy shield. cool, but since it can only take a couple of direct hits before failing it really doesn't do much.

AI system. again, its cool. it allows him to fire weaponry more accuratly. Space Marine PA has a similer system.



Protection. its quite obvious that the primary protection element the armor offers is the shield. the armor itself is a last resort defense. this is plain because Sparten's use cover. if the armor was truely as awsome as is claimed they wouldn't hug cover so much.

Space Marines hug cover too, but thats only because there are plenty of weapons in the 40k universe capable of cracking ceramite.




the Space Marine relys on his incredibly sturdy armor against things which can't penetrate it and cover for things that can.

Spartens seem alot more vulnerable to small arms fire and hug cover to match.

I don't think anyone is trying to convince people that the armour is more advanced or that its more awesome. It's incredibly advanced for the setting, and would certainly be a very high-end piece of tech in 40k, but Power Armour that Space Marines use would give more protection. The more advanced part of the armour is the liquid crystal layer which doubles strength and increases reaction time by a factor of five. The AI I have to say is also a fairly big advantage. Much better tactical awareness, as well as increasing reaction speeds again.

so the AI might give him a slight advantage in reaction time.


PA also has an on board computer. it might not be AI, but it does allow for the tracking of multiple targets and combat awarness.


the Space Marine's super human brain also gives him an advantage in processing.


the Sparten doesn't recieve anywhere near the changes a SM gets so the difference is probably small.



and hitting a missile out of the air. thats just a simple calculation. if I knew exactly when and where to do it, i could knock a missile down. its just being in the right place at the right time and its the AI doing the work and has nothing to do with the sparten's reaction time.

Grey Templar wrote:
the Space Marine's super human brain also gives him an advantage in processing.

and hitting a missile out of the air. thats just a simple calculation. if I knew exactly when and where to do it, i could knock a missile down. its just being in the right place at the right time and its the AI doing the work and has nothing to do with the sparten's reaction time.

When is a Space Marine's brain altered to allow for faster processing of information?

The AI can't control the SPARTAN's body. It's not one or the other; it's a team effort. The AI's processing, combined with the SPARTAN's speed, strength, and reaction time, is what let them do it.

Sorry I'm sure you must have meant something else when you said you could hit a missile out of the sky with your fist. It's not a simple calculation as to when to hit it's a difficult one especially when you have only a few seconds to calculate it all the factors, it's also another thing entirely to have the muscle strength and reaction time to actually side step it and whack it away. You should try it, good luck to you is all I can say.

Space Marines have no neural enhancements. The AI aids a SPARTAN in this.

Depends on the type of combat, but in the end, the only point where a Spartan could win is speed/reflexes. (boosted by augmentation, armor, and optional additional boost through use of an AI).

Otherwise, they are in a completely different weight class.

Anyone know the weight of a fully armored SM btw? Spartans are about 700+ Kilo's (depending on your source)

The Chief weighs 270 Lbs, the armour when active weighs 1000Lbs. They're still nimble and incredibly agile even with this incredible weight on them, gives an idea about strength.

The HALO datasheet from the first game says that a SPARTAN weighs in at a standard ton, but absolutely nothing in the game reflects that. Not only do small plastic and cardboard boxes not instantly flatten or shatter when you jump on them, it takes quite a few whacks to kill a Grunt in melee... rather than instantly shattering its skull with the weight and force of the attack as it should when someone weighing a ton decides to smack you around.

Just the same as Space Marines are not reflected as they are in canon in the game, it would break it.

good point, both are games so have to be within confides of balance. with my orks it would take alot by fluff to take out 1 space marine... unless you say that each of my ork models represent 10 or 20 ork boys same with everythgin else... fluff != game practices

Yeah, the halo novels are canonny in this too

"grabs his Halo encyclopedia"

Remember guys, most spartans dont have an onboard AI, so it really should not be put into the argument, otherwise SM side will just start breaking out the SMs who have survived insane stuff with little problem.

Draigo vs. all the surviving SPARTANs led by Master Chief.

Master Chief Vs the Emperor..... Pretty sure the chief would lose that

Crom wrote:Master Chief Vs the Emperor..... Pretty sure the chief would lose that

Pfft doubt it, what would the emperor do? think him to death? he is a shadow of the god he once was

Crom wrote:Master Chief Vs the Emperor..... Pretty sure the chief would lose that

You think? The Emperor would look at him, burn his soul with his mind and go away...

destroy him with a psychic blast...EMPEROR WINS THE TITLE!

Samus_aran115 wrote:The spartan, because space marines don't exist. They're made-up.

I just spat everything I've ever drank onto my monitor, thank you.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

themocaw wrote:Screw this, as long as we're playing, "My fiction can beat your fiction," I'm taking the nuclear option:

How many SPESS MEHREENS would it take to defeat Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

One. His fluff is written by Mat Ward.

I admit, I laughed.

themocaw wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

themocaw wrote:Screw this, as long as we're playing, "My fiction can beat your fiction," I'm taking the nuclear option:

How many SPESS MEHREENS would it take to defeat Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

One. His fluff is written by Mat Ward.

I admit, I laughed.

I'll take this to it's natural conclusion:

DBZ > ALL when it comes to stupid power.

Soladrin wrote:

themocaw wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

themocaw wrote:Screw this, as long as we're playing, "My fiction can beat your fiction," I'm taking the nuclear option:

How many SPESS MEHREENS would it take to defeat Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

One. His fluff is written by Mat Ward.

I admit, I laughed.

I'll take this to it's natural conclusion:

DBZ > ALL when it comes to stupid power.

Only if it's over 9000

Toastedandy wrote:

Crom wrote:Master Chief Vs the Emperor..... Pretty sure the chief would lose that

Pfft doubt it, what would the emperor do? think him to death? he is a shadow of the god he once was

its the other way around.


the Emperor isn't constrained by his body as much as before so his power is all but unchecked by reality.


think of it like this,


the Emperor is like a massive scary Pit Bull.

when he was alive, this ficticious person called Reality was holding his chain.


when the Emperor's body was dealt that blow by Horus, Reality took the Emperor's chain and nailed it into the ground by a door. this door is the gateway between the Warp and the physical universe.

the Emperor is keeping most of the deamons from entering the physical universe(he can't stop them all, but he can stop most)

Soladrin wrote:

themocaw wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

themocaw wrote:Screw this, as long as we're playing, "My fiction can beat your fiction," I'm taking the nuclear option:

How many SPESS MEHREENS would it take to defeat Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

One. His fluff is written by Mat Ward.

I admit, I laughed.

I'll take this to it's natural conclusion:

DBZ > ALL when it comes to stupid power.

DBZ never used galaxies as shuriken or flung the power of a creating universe at each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOOCp6sdzJc

themocaw wrote:

Soladrin wrote:

themocaw wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

themocaw wrote:Screw this, as long as we're playing, "My fiction can beat your fiction," I'm taking the nuclear option:

How many SPESS MEHREENS would it take to defeat Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

One. His fluff is written by Mat Ward.

I admit, I laughed.

I'll take this to it's natural conclusion:

DBZ > ALL when it comes to stupid power.

DBZ never used galaxies as shuriken or flung the power of a creating universe at each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOOCp6sdzJc

ya hard to beat i hid you with the universe

or my favorite form the series im going to blast ever thing from the last 50 years and the next 50 years in a second

Yeah, but if Goku had to fight that guy he'd figure out a way to do it. He'd get his ass kicked and come back as some newer, previously undiscovered form of Saiyan!

That video was pretty badass.

Isn't obvious? a Space SPARTAN would kick everyone's ass. And the Hero to lead them would be known as Master Chief Librarian.

Grey Templar wrote:the Sparten simply has his armor.


it might be impressive, but even giving it massive leeway and saying its the equal of the SMs PA wouldn't help him.

the Marine would just rip the Sparten apart at the seams assuming he couldn't actually crack the plates.


the sparten wouldn't be able to do anything in return and it would just be a matter of time untill his armor gave way.

?

You realise that is wrong right. Spartans are gentically modified and surgically altered super humans sans their armor. They could effectively becompared physically to a space marine prior to putting on their armor (enhanced neural synapses and reaction times, enhanced musculature, grafted bone and metal/ceramic skeletal structure rendering it virtually unbreakable, etc). They can't spit acid like a marine, but outside of that there isn't really anything a marine has that would matter in combat that a Spartan doesn't have.

A Spartan's armor will kill or cripple a normal human if they wear it, do to how much it amplifies strength and reflexes. You can't say that about Astartes Power Armor. Plus the Spartan packs a built in shield generator, which can ping off bolter rounds pretty handedly.

My money would be on the Spartan. Physically he's at least the Astartes' equal, he has better and faster armor, better reaction times, and doesn't have a lot of the goofy mental baggage 40k imparts on it's people.

from what I have seen of Spartens they simply look like slightly taller and buffer humans.


they still have Human proportions meaning they have muscle mass comperable to a normal human of the same size and height.


Space Marines are altered to the point where they are no longer the same species(Homo Astartes)


the Marine ends up being 8ft tall.

the Sparten is about a head taller then the humans around him.

not all that impressive of a modification.



I would say the modification, while it might be considerable compared to a normal human, isn't much compared to a space marine.




like was said before, the Sparten's shield is wimpy. it goes down to a few hits.

the Space Marine doesn't have a energy shield which is easy to take down. his protection level is always the same.





Space Marine bone structure isn't just stronger, its completely different.

their Ribs fuse into a single bone mass(with built in space for lung movement) in addition to being strengthened with ceramic compounds.




the Space Marine can also absorb the memories of a dead person by eating their brain. they can also breath underwater and are immune to poison, not to mention extreme lowlight visability with the naked eye as well as supurb hearing.

G00fySmiley wrote:to quote Duke Nukem in duke nukem forever when given the option to wear armor (which looked like UNCS spartan armor) "armor's for pussies"

but in actuality if you read the halo books they go through some very rigerous genetic enhancments and training as well It is hard to say for certain, but i think if they met it wouldn't be a fight I think they'd like eachother then do try to squish some xenos

Except a Spartan doesn't hate Xenos. He/She has no prejudice against aliens. They only fight the enemies of the UNSC. A Spartan can and will ally with Xenos readily if it is friendly.

Phototoxin wrote:Marine... the USMC Spartan moves slower and basically isn't an Angel of Death..

You're wrong on slower, and yes, they aren't angels of death, they're Demons From Hell that are the spooky scare your troops into line (i.e. the boogeyman) stories of the Covenant and Innies.

another point is this,



the Spartens have taken 66% casualities since their inception.


Space Marines are still at full strength(Casualities are replaced)



a Marine can be replaced, a Sparten can't.