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But for 90% of gun owners out there it seems a bit... odd.

Why? Second rifle can be handed to a buddy or used for a backup in case of parts failure. Or a second pistol, identical to the first, in the event that it is ever confiscated as evidence should the unfortunate situation occur where you had to USE the first pistol.

SOFDC wrote:

But for 90% of gun owners out there it seems a bit... odd.

Why? Second rifle can be handed to a buddy or used for a backup in case of parts failure. Or a second pistol, identical to the first, in the event that it is ever confiscated as evidence should the unfortunate situation occur where you had to USE the first pistol.

wouldnt they give it back if it was proven it was self defense?

So it finally happened
Now half of my jokes are true

Eventually. Eventually might mean days, or eventually might mean Years. It all depends on the particulars of the case and how bad a day the powers that be have had. In my fathers case, he got a vaguely gun shaped lump of rust returned to him after 3 years. Once your weapon goes into that evidence bag, no human hands will touch it....for better or worse. No cleaning, no oiling, nothing.

SOFDC wrote:Eventually. Eventually might mean days, or eventually might mean Years. It all depends on the particulars of the case and how bad a day the powers that be have had. In my fathers case, he got a vaguely gun shaped lump of rust returned to him after 3 years. Once your weapon goes into that evidence bag, no human hands will touch it....for better or worse. No cleaning, no oiling, nothing.

wow..that sucks..and is kinda unfair.

It's better than the alternative, annoying as it is. I certainly wouldn't want them cleaning and oiling the forensic evidence right off the weapon in a case where people have died, it's just an eventuality that one should be prepared for.

Skycrawler wrote:@Sckitzo: Thanks, the closest thing to a rifle I have fired is a pellet gun so I'll definitely look into the Ruger.


Another thing I wanted to ask was; What about pawn shops? Would it be preferable to get a cheaper rifle from a pawn shop or a more expensive one from a gun&ammo shop? Thanks for answering all my questions.

Pawn shops are very hit or miss, most of the guys know what their selling, with everyone being on the internet their going to run a couple quick checks on any guns they get in to get a value for, if you find a great deal at a pawn shop, I'd be very wary, be sure you know what your looking for and if it's going to be safe to fire (very important with old milsurp guns) you are going to pay a premium at a brick and mortar gun shop, but they normally have checked the guns out and would tell you if it was going to explode in your face (normally....still check it your self or a buddy you trust who knows what he is doing).

Gun shows you can find some good deals at, but with the ticket to get in anymore it almost isn't worth the effort.

If your buying say the ruger, pawn shops should be fine, there so many of those guns floating around that their going to be fairly cheap, just look it over closely, hell WalMart sells em for like two or three hundred, if that normally.

I buy from brick and mortar when I can, normally I find a small shop in my area, and start doing my business there, you develop a rapport with the guys that work there, which can help later on down the road, it may cost you a bit more, but if you need to get a gun fixed they could hook you up with "good customer" discounts and stuff like that. I've gotten free ammo and magazines before, and your helping a small business out.

SOFDC wrote:It's better than the alternative, annoying as it is. I certainly wouldn't want them cleaning and oiling the forensic evidence right off the weapon in a case where people have died, it's just an eventuality that one should be prepared for.

i mean,after your proven innocent,they should give it back. if they know it was self defense,why keep it? its your property and you paid for it. guess they probably have a good reason,but it just seems unfair.

Guns, eh? Dashed unsporting, old chap. We Brits are rather fond of the old longbow, though. One in the eye for Johnny Frenchman! Pip pip.

Ahh, see I just keep spare parts around, and if I use a gun in self defense I have others to go to while the police do their thing. In that situation I can understand having two, I was thinking more along the lines of "I just bought a 92FS, next week I'm buying another"

But I'm more a collector then anything, so having two of the same guns cuts into my budget way to much. I mean I have my self defense guns, but those are separate.

i mean,after your proven innocent,they should give it back. if they know it was self defense,why keep it? its your property and you paid for it. guess they probably have a good reason,but it just seems unfair.

I know what you mean. It took 3 years to prove my father was not in the wrong. Sometimes it takes longer than others.

Ahh, see I just keep spare parts around, and if I use a gun in self defense I have others to go to while the police do their thing.

I do both with my AR15s. Though I am having to rebuild them into CA-Legal formats, which is going to take a while. At least I have a pissy little SU-16CA while I do it.

I've heard that the best type of gun for self defense - and particularly carrying - is a spurless revolver with a barrel no bigger than 2.5" and .357 rounds. Revolver so you don't have to worry about mag issues (springs, etc.), no spur means it won't catch on anything, the small size makes it easy and comfortable to conceal and carry, and the .357 still packs a punch. Any thoughts?

I've heard great things about Brownings - especially to do with reliability and price.

SOFDC wrote:You may want to consider some sort of hand to hand training in addition to everything else, and look up the Tueller drill.

Maybe it's overkill, but I'm learning Krav Maga, myself. Mostly specifically because it teaches defense against knives.

snake wrote:I've heard that the best type of gun for self defense - and particularly carrying - is a spurless revolver with a barrel no bigger than 2.5" and .357 rounds. Revolver so you don't have to worry about mag issues (springs, etc.), no spur means it won't catch on anything, the small size makes it easy and comfortable to conceal and carry, and the .357 still packs a punch. Any thoughts?

Their not a bad choice, but they are very unpleasant to shoot and practice with due to their small size and big round, alot of police have something similar as a backup pistol. For me, I would carry one if I needed a backup, but not as my primary.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

SOFDC wrote:You may want to consider some sort of hand to hand training in addition to everything else, and look up the Tueller drill.

Maybe it's overkill, but I'm learning Krav Maga, myself. Mostly specifically because it teaches defense against knives.

We were doing Krav at work, I like it because it's very basic and fluid, it's not fancy or flashy. It's a dirty way to fight and teaches you to do whatever you have to get away from the person trying to hurt you, be that taking out knee joints or going for the eyes/genitals. It's also a hell of a work out, if you can find a place you can take it at I'd say go for it.

This would be a pretty good gun

Melissia wrote:Maybe it's overkill, but I'm learning Krav Maga, myself. Mostly specifically because it teaches defense against knives.

If you want to learn how to fight with, and against, knives look into Eskrima.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sckitzo wrote:
We were doing Krav at work, I like it because it's very basic and fluid, it's not fancy or flashy. It's a dirty way to fight and teaches you to do whatever you have to get away from the person trying to hurt you, be that taking out knee joints or going for the eyes/genitals. It's also a hell of a work out, if you can find a place you can take it at I'd say go for it.

Krav Maga is good, but because its so brutal its also predictable. You always know where the guy who has only trained in Krav is going. This is opposed to other systems that use misdirection (Eskrima, Wing Chun, Aikido) as a deliberate tactic.

"Not as clumsy or random as a blaster, a more elegant weapon from a more civilized era."

I've trained in other martial arts, mostly the basics of them. but the thing is, for self defense, you don't want anything flashy. You want to get the job done as fast as possible, and get the hell out of there.

More importantly, I'm naturally aggressive, and Krav Maga is also naturally aggressive

On a similar note, what is your firearms background exactly Melissia?

dogma wrote:

Sckitzo wrote:... if you follow the basics rules of firearms safety it's no more dangerous then a large club.

That's an exaggeration. I know 2nd Amendment guys like to minimize the danger of firearms, but they really are more dangerous than knives, swords, clubs, and most other weapons due to ease of use, range of effect, and extent of damage to target.

There's a reason the world's militaries use them in lieu of other options.

Sit a gun and a knife on a table and see which one kills a person sitting in a chair across from it first.

Guns and knives are both dangerous but you don't have to load a knife for example, its just that guns are more effective than knives.

As far as antique and older guns go, ordering online usually requires you to be 21. Owning a rifle is set at 18 and owning a pistol is set at 21, buying pistol ammo is also illegal to those under 21. I tried buying some .45 acp for my dad's reproduced thompson and was turned away before I was 21.

As far as rifles go, Mosin Nagants are usually the cheapest followed by Kar98's and then M1 Garands. Sniper variants are always more expensive than their non-sniper variants. The cheapest I've seen for a 91/30 nagant was $70.00 for the rifle, bayonet, ammo pouch, sling, and oil can/cleaning kit. The site sells surplus weapons, which were used at some point but were fixed up and then stored away. The one I have has the original bolt and factory markings along with a depot marking, but has a barrel clearly marked as made in N.C.. Kar98's will almost never have matching serial numbers, and some later produced ones lacked them altogether. There are added benefits to buying in person over buying online, the biggest being you can actually see the weapon before buying it, but in stores 91/30 nagants sell for about $125.00 with no accessories.

91/30's kick like a mule, Kar98's kick like a mule, M1s kick like a sick mule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

warpcrafter wrote:

"Not as clumsy or random as a blaster, a more elegant weapon from a more civilized era."

"Hockey religons and ancient weapons are no match for a blaster by your side. "

SOFDC wrote:On a similar note, what is your firearms background exactly Melissia?

First time I held a gun was about ten, my father's hunting rifle. The gun wasn't meant for someone that size obviously, and the kick when he had me shoot at a target rather scared the sense into me and made me treat it with the respect it deserved. After that, I've periodically gone to shooting ranges with him, firing various weapons from a small purse gun to a glock to (I think) .45 semi-autos, or if not .45, an only slightly smaller cartridge.

Pretty normal I suppose given that my father was in the military and I'm from Texas.

Well, this is just a thought, perhaps you should also look into a .22 pistol or .22 conversion kit for whatever pistol you set your eyes on. Never hurts to have the ability to practice 5 or 6 times more than normal.

I think she's a bit used to things larger than a .22 from what she's said. If she's considering getting one then she might as well get used to ammo prices anyways.

halonachos wrote:Sit a gun and a knife on a table and see which one kills a person sitting in a chair across from it first.

Guns and knives are both dangerous but you don't have to load a knife for example, its just that guns are more effective than knives.

A story about a man who took on six gun armed men with a knife comes to mind...

It all really depends on the skill of the weapon user, there's and adage that its "Better to put a bad gun in the hands of am experienced shooter than it is to put a good gun in the hands of an inexperienced shooter..."

However in Russia/China/North Korea's case, you overcome this by having millions of inexperienced, bad gun toting guys...

halonachos wrote:I think she's a bit used to things larger than a .22 from what she's said. If she's considering getting one then she might as well get used to ammo prices anyways.

Besides, I would want to use the ammunition the weapon is designed for, even if the weapon is made to be modified (like many SIG weapons are from what I can tell) it was likely still designed with a specific bullet size in mind.

Melissia wrote:

halonachos wrote:I think she's a bit used to things larger than a .22 from what she's said. If she's considering getting one then she might as well get used to ammo prices anyways.

Besides, I would want to use the ammunition the weapon is designed for, even if the weapon is made to be modified (like many SIG weapons are from what I can tell) it was likely still designed with a specific bullet size in mind.

Precisely.

The suggestion was not to imply a lack of ability. The suggestion was to lessen the wallet impact and still be able to shoot. I cannot speak for anyone else, but when I have an active year I am going through around 1000 rounds a month. Shooting rimfire with the same grip to put my hand on, the same trigger pull, and the same sight picture is invaluable, and still a step up from dryfire practice. If you can painlessly drop the coin for that much shooting, or you do less, by all means.

This is probably what I'd be using if I got the P250:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_SIG

From what I gather, it's about ~15-20 USD for a 50 round box. Dunno if that's pricey, but I know peopel spend more on far less enjoyable entertainment (like going to the movies) for a day.

I pay 5 or 2 dollars when I go to the movies.