Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

mikhaila wrote:In many ways, it doesn't matter. They'll sell hobbits until they run out of the little vermin, then move on to something else, and sell that. For video games, they don't have to sell any, never have. They let other people do that and rake in the cash. I expect they won't have a problem going forward having royalties coming in from on game or another. The franchise is started, and backed up by the games and black library.

I realise I'm moving off on a tangent here, but say, for sake of argument, that you wanted to add some video games to your store. Say it was something small - a small section of your wall that only sold the latest AAA titles (ie. not a comprehensive stock of games, just the big games) for 360/PS3/Wii, maybe 10 titles for each platform. Would that cost you more to set up than it would be worth in profits, or would it be worthwhile?

I want to try answering that xD

No its not worthwhile, unless the customer have no budget limit.
If the customer is going to spend set amount of money, I would rather them buy something thats related to the store's main focus,
which the product will travel back to the store. e.g larger mini war game base.

let me know if i got the concept / idea right mik :3

I found a pretty depressing graph last year. It is a Google Trends representation of GW's internet footprint, based on the average worldwide traffic of the term "Games Workshop" (redone here by me):



When one uses the term "Warhammer" instead (which of course is less GW-Warhammer spesific) one gets this graph:



...which shows the same decline while simultaneously illustrating how small the miniatures gaming scene is: the 2008 spike (A to E) is directly related to Warhammer Online and the buzz it generated in mainstream media, and the F spike is related to the Wrath of Heroes annoucement.

It is really important to turn this slow fall around, both for the sake og GW itself and the fantasy/scifi miniatures gaming hobby in general. It may not be a direct parallell to sales and hobby mainstream presence, but it is not a good trend. It also doesn't look like GW as a brand name really gets all that much help from its computer game licences - I suspect most computer game players relate Warhammer Online to Mythic and Wrath of Heroes to Bioware/EA...

"40k" doesn't work as a trend search (most references are to the number) but "warhammer 40,000" nets this:



which also has a slow decline...I do wonder what the 2011 spike is related to...it is to late the be the teaser and to early to be the rumours of cancellation.

Space Marine FPS probably?

TPS and likely yes it would have had something to do with it.

Well, those graphs look pretty worrying

Same old, same old really. I expect it to repeat the brief boost when the Hobbit comes out then to start to slump back to where it is now. They need a more long term fix than these short term patches.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

mikhaila wrote:In many ways, it doesn't matter. They'll sell hobbits until they run out of the little vermin, then move on to something else, and sell that. For video games, they don't have to sell any, never have. They let other people do that and rake in the cash. I expect they won't have a problem going forward having royalties coming in from on game or another. The franchise is started, and backed up by the games and black library.

I realise I'm moving off on a tangent here, but say, for sake of argument, that you wanted to add some video games to your store. Say it was something small - a small section of your wall that only sold the latest AAA titles (ie. not a comprehensive stock of games, just the big games) for 360/PS3/Wii, maybe 10 titles for each platform. Would that cost you more to set up than it would be worth in profits, or would it be worthwhile?

Not sure.

Video games have a distribution system that doesn't tie into any of the comic/game/hobby distributors that I work with. From what I've researched, the money in video games is in the used ones. New titles have a thin margin, usually 20% or less. Used stuff usually has 60-80% profit margin. Thus the push to get people to trade in their games when done with them, for other stuff. I know of several comic shops that have gone to what is called an "Entertainment Model" where they buy and sell used video games, systems, dvds, cds etc. I've explored the idea, but I've got 3 places in my mall selling new and used games and video right now, so I'd be in a horribly competitive enviorment.

For my suburban store, your idea has more chance of succeeding, since I don't have established competition literally 50 ft away. Wouldn't take up much space at all. The main hurdle is finding a distributor that would have low enough ordering minimums. Might be a better idea to simply sell used games, and make a deal with an another store to stock those games in my shop and get a percentage of sales. Used has such a better profit margin that there is more to share. People are already done with the Space Marine game and trading it in.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

n0t_u wrote:Same old, same old really. I expect it to repeat the brief boost when the Hobbit comes out then to start to slump back to where it is now. They need a more long term fix than these short term patches.

So does Greece and the slumping economy of many large nations. A big chunk of everyone's problems is the overall state of the world economy. Short term fixes are what you slap on while either creating, or waiting for, a long term fix.

Kanluwen wrote:

As another note:
The idea that Games Workshop targets children has been done to death. We know it isn't really true, despite what people like to say.

Kan you know if you are making a sarcastic comment, you're supposed to use a winking emote afterwards right?

'Not targeted at children?', of course it is their target, and it's something they have been extremely successful with.

That any adults (veterans) continue to play their games is a nice added bonus for the company, but it's obvious in the way that the games have changed, the background, and marketing strategy (of customers spending a large amount of money in a relatively short time, then quitting) that it's primarily aimed at children, and more importantly the wallets of their parents.

mikhaila wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Same old, same old really. I expect it to repeat the brief boost when the Hobbit comes out then to start to slump back to where it is now. They need a more long term fix than these short term patches.

So does Greece and the slumping economy of many large nations. A big chunk of everyone's problems is the overall state of the world economy. Short term fixes are what you slap on while either creating, or waiting for, a long term fix.

Yes, but not when your long term fix appears to be "keep using short term patches"

Pacific wrote:
'Not targeted at children?', of course it is their target, and it's something they have been extremely successful with.

And they are quite open about it, so I am somewhat surprised people think it is controversial.

not a controversy but more like confusion to me

GW continues to target kids but if anything, the lore is anything BUT kid-friendly (Slaanesh? Chaos? I'm surprised there arent more GW-burning movements than Harry Potter ones)

Seems more like an example of a young impressionability than a 'new fanatic'.

Bakerofish wrote:GW continues to target kids but if anything, the lore is anything BUT kid-friendly (Slaanesh? Chaos? I'm surprised there arent more GW-burning movements than Harry Potter ones)

The day the 40k universe equals Harry Potter in public presence, those Abaddon effigies will be burning in the streets soon enough

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:GW continues to target kids but if anything, the lore is anything BUT kid-friendly (Slaanesh? Chaos? I'm surprised there arent more GW-burning movements than Harry Potter ones)

The day the 40k universe equals Harry Potter in public presence, those Abaddon effigies will be burning in the streets soon enough

Or maybe the day those Abaddon effigies are burning in the streets, the 40k universe will equal Harry Potter in public presence.

Quick, somebody find Jack Chick and tell him about this "game" that uses idols of false gods.

I failed :( couldn't watch past 30 seconds

It probably would help a bit more if the video hadn't been posted before Finecast released

Was it? Really?

I've been chewing at this entire thread over the past 2+ hours while doing some work at work. I must say this is one of the best, interesting, entertaining threads I've read in a year. Brava!

Still waiting for kanluwen's accurate source of Finecast release date. he keeps track of those stuff more than I do.

Harriticus wrote:GW probably has an Arbites Judge with a bolt pistol pointed at the kids head off camera. Hence the clear distress and confusion in his eyes.

He should have been flashing the "captured" hand signal- but that begs the question, did he do this willingly?

Just gotta say one thing here, GW minis are really not overpriced, I've bought some aweful models for more than GW models. And I'm seeing most people who really are upset are in AUS, and yeah GW prices there are terrifying.
As for targeting kids.
Have you seen the AOBR kit? HURDUR We made them orks four pieces so anyone can put them together! yew like spass mahrens? these are one piece, barely even a choking hazard! The AOBR kit was such a child aimed box. I've gotten the boyz and Deff Koptas from it for my brother, but I haven't touched those SMs, I despise those SMs. I like actually modeling my models too much.

Haven't read all the posts about this video, so sorry if I repeat a comment.

I can't help but imagine GW has this kid hostage and is forcing him to read a prepared statement. Do we know what their demands are yet?

Bakerofish wrote:GW continues to target kids but if anything, the lore is anything BUT kid-friendly (Slaanesh? Chaos)?

That’s because the fluff was developed before GW’s current kid focus. I’m sure if the fluff was developed today, Chaos would be more like the moustache twirling villains seen on Captain Planet.

Redaxe13 wrote:Just gotta say one thing here, GW minis are really not overpriced

This made me lol. $2.9 per model in plastic versus the $1.84 they were not even a year ago(Orc boys being the model used in this price example) and they didn't even resculpt the models.

And lets look at finecast. $49.50 for 3 fell bats! Are you joking?

GW minis are in so many ways overpriced. Even at my discount of 30% off they cost a pretty penny.

n0t_u wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Same old, same old really. I expect it to repeat the brief boost when the Hobbit comes out then to start to slump back to where it is now. They need a more long term fix than these short term patches.

So does Greece and the slumping economy of many large nations. A big chunk of everyone's problems is the overall state of the world economy. Short term fixes are what you slap on while either creating, or waiting for, a long term fix.

Yes, but not when your long term fix appears to be "keep using short term patches"

If 10 short term patches gets you through a decade, then it's a long term solution.) And not actually saying that's what GW is doing. Just sort of laughing at this thread, ( and many others) who disparage any company for 'Not having a long term fix",

We aren't privy to their strategy, or most of what goes on within their accounting and manufacturing. It's quite possible the short term plans are part of longer term fixes, or in addition to them.

Aerethan wrote:

Redaxe13 wrote:Just gotta say one thing here, GW minis are really not overpriced

This made me lol. $2.9 per model in plastic versus the $1.84 they were not even a year ago(Orc boys being the model used in this price example) and they didn't even resculpt the models.

And lets look at finecast. $49.50 for 3 fell bats! Are you joking?

GW minis are in so many ways overpriced. Even at my discount of 30% off they cost a pretty penny.

Find me equal quality models for a lower price. oh and that come with as many extra bits as GW models come with.

Be careful what you wish for Redaxe 13. It might just come true.

that kid needs to keep his mouth away from the rubber cement bottle


he seems to have 100 braincells left

candy.man wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:GW continues to target kids but if anything, the lore is anything BUT kid-friendly (Slaanesh? Chaos)?

That’s because the fluff was developed before GW’s current kid focus. I’m sure if the fluff was developed today, Chaos would be more like the moustache twirling villains seen on Captain Planet.

I agree, if Marines were made today there is no way in hell they would be able to spit acid, or eat brains to learn things from their enemies. I was looking through the old Realms of Chaos/Slaves to Darkness books the other day for another thread on the forum (about old sci-fi art) and I had forgotten how incredibly weird it was. It's funny, I could look at pictures of screaming guys surrounded by skulls all day, and not be in the least bit perturbed by it, but some of the pictures in those old chaos books used to freak me out. Even though they were obviously intended for adults, I think at the same time they intrigued the child psyche - what the hell were those things? Why is that guy riding a massive worm with 50 eyes, and who is the dude suspended upside down by what looks to be a tail made out of faces? It gave the impression of massive depth to the universe, and of hidden truths.

Personally when I was a kid, regarding marines I thought the aforementioned 'powers' were the coolest, rather than the more mundane ones such as not having to sleep or changing skin colour. I'm glad that in his latest book Aaron Dembski-Bowden had one of the Nightlords spit at someone in the face, utterly disgusting but I bet if you asked kids about it they would find that 100 times cooler than any scene in the entire Ultramarines omnibus, or the almost comical descriptions of Draigo in the Grey Knights book. Having read some of the comments on his blog, it's obvious that he still understands the roots of the game universe, and what made it evocative to him when he first found out about it. In some ways ADB's writing reminds me of the old 'Space Marine' novel, the bit where the marines eat the brains of the titan crew and then hijack it. The way it is described, in gory detail, was almost stomach turning.

As you say Candy.man, just as Chaos has been changed from it's original concept (of being weird, not understandable, rather than two-dimensional clichés of guys with black circles round their eyes stroking white cats, and writing rude messages to go inside fortune cookies) it's un-doubtable that this has been done to make it more accessible to children. However, at the same time, I think if we were all honest the more 'adult' elements were the bits which were the most appealing to us, and sadly I think something lost to the newcomers coming into Warhammer 40,000 today.

@candyman & pacific

I understand that well enough. I was just commenting on the disconnect between the marketing and "actuality" of the GW IPs.

and its not a recent development either. I have a 15 year-old "mini-magazine" that GW used to give out in their stores and the "kid-targeted" marketing is fairly evident there.

Now I normally wont comment on this especially since we're talking about toys. God knows there are far too many things that are designed for kids that adults constantly try to shoe-horn themselves in (Transformers and Pokemon anyone?)

Its just for this case it seems to be the reverse. Its kinda like if White-wolf made a Saturday morning cartoon about your friendly neighborhood Malkavian.

MightyGodzilla wrote:I've been chewing at this entire thread over the past 2+ hours while doing some work at work. I must say this is one of the best, interesting, entertaining threads I've read in a year. Brava!

I agree. I'm trying to figure out which is the most absurd - the video or the majority of the comments in this thread.

I'm leaning towards the latter, since the kid at least has youth and dyslexia as an excuse, and his response conceded that there are quality issues while making some sort of effort to try and internally rationalise GW price rises as being down to inflation and the UK economy being weak.