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Semi off topic , but wolf related: ( no idea whats going on but its interesting sculptures )

Im kind of sad to see the the third codex for 5th edition be yet another imperial one but honestly if it had to be an imperial one the space wolves needed one.

EDIT - Ignore this, it was supposed to follow on from Manchu's post, but Blaktoof got in the way.

@ Blaktoof, yes it is annoying that GW are so Imperium focused, but as already pointed out, Imperium stuff sells. Presumably because we buyers identify more with the human models. Thinking about it, most of my armies (incl. fantasy) are human.

Lunahound, I saw that pic on 4chan last night, did you post it there or get it from there?

I don't see why they could not use the same layout that SW currently has in the other army lists to speed things up. By that I mean put hte individual Chapter specific traits/units/fluff in a seperate codex. Use the vanilla codex to store all vehicle stats, as well as units available to all chapters that are not Mech. These are just a few things that GW and consumers would like.

1. Causes people to buy 2 codices off the bat if they want to play a specific chapter, legion, or the like.
2. You would have the option as a player to play your chosen chapter, or a generic list as you would have two books. Which in turn helps to move more models.
3. There would never be a "DA" situation where your codex vehicles/units are worse than what is standard in the current edition. Everyone would be using the same vehicles throught the life of the base codex. They would really only need to make sure they balanced the 3-4 special units for each breakout codex.

This could apply to Imerium, Eldar, Chaos, and pretty much any of the breakout lists you all mentioned. The specific books would take little time to write if you had 60-70% of the units covered in the main book. I know there are holes in this idea, but not near as bad as the current setup. Some people are just not happy unless "their" army is unique and individual with it's own book, and special rules, and pretty fluff. These are sadly the same people usually that think GW is not getting the job done on getting to their codex fast enough.

Demogerg wrote:Lunahound, I saw that pic on 4chan last night, did you post it there or get it from there?

neither saw it while googling space wolfs. its done by some chinese artist.

Kaotik wrote:I don't see why they could not use the same layout that SW currently has in the other army lists to speed things up. By that I mean put hte individual Chapter specific traits/units/fluff in a seperate codex. Use the vanilla codex to store all vehicle stats, as well as units available to all chapters that are not Mech. These are just a few things that GW and consumers would like.

1. Causes people to buy 2 codices off the bat if they want to play a specific chapter, legion, or the like.
2. You would have the option as a player to play your chosen chapter, or a generic list as you would have two books. Which in turn helps to move more models.
3. There would never be a "DA" situation where your codex vehicles/units are worse than what is standard in the current edition. Everyone would be using the same vehicles throught the life of the base codex. They would really only need to make sure they balanced the 3-4 special units for each breakout codex.

This could apply to Imerium, Eldar, Chaos, and pretty much any of the breakout lists you all mentioned. The specific books would take little time to write if you had 60-70% of the units covered in the main book. I know there are holes in this idea, but not near as bad as the current setup. Some people are just not happy unless "their" army is unique and individual with it's own book, and special rules, and pretty fluff. These are sadly the same people usually that think GW is not getting the job done on getting to their codex fast enough.

This!

Imo, gimping the different craftworlds was the best idea for the Eldar ever. Too many subchapters-codeci is annoying for everyone not playing those subchapters. Especially the suggestion for 6 different legion codeci for chaos -> egoistic!
Don't get me wrong, the Choas codex was horrible as was the split in Chaos Marines and daemons. It just took away the possibility to make proper legion chapters (Alpha legion to name one). The Eldar codex is sometimes also pretty restricting in this regard but it is at least possible.

So if GW scrape the Marine chapters together in one Codex, it had to be tested well and be complex enough to satisfy the players who played and love their army. And because we know how hard this is for GW sometimes, its the worst case scenario for most of the SM chapter players out there.

Greets
Schepp himself

Please don't let the new Grey Hunter picture become the new Dark Eldar greens pic.

There's a new Space Wolves pic? Ooh, could somebody post it?

Flashman wrote:In Fantasy, you might get the odd army book that is arguably more powerful, but at least they stick to roughly the same formula for each book. In 40K, they move the goal posts with each Codex.

Really, now, is this the case?

I started playing 40k at the end of third edition, using the (then new) Chaos codex.

Since then, every single codex released has been weaker. And I'm of the general opinion that the same applies to the 4th edition Eldar codex (especially if I'm allowed to forget about the designed-for-5e Ork codex's performance in 4e). If anything, there's been a slight downward trend in codex power since late third edition.

Iorek wrote:Please don't let the new Grey Hunter picture become the new Dark Eldar greens pic.

o rly?

Iorek wrote:Please don't let the new Grey Hunter picture become the new Dark Eldar greens pic.

What are these 'elusive' pics you refer to?....



regards,
Grim.

Sarigar wrote:IIRC, GW advised this would indeed be the case some time ago. I think once the Space Wolves are released, that would be the last codex that relies on an additional codex in order to play the army.

Depends upon your definition of "relies on." DH and WH both refer to outside codices.

True, but DH and WH can be fielded as standalone armies.

If WH goes back to being a standalone Sisters army without Allies rules, then that leaves just DH / Inquisition as the only Allies army book, further reducing confusion.

DFK! wrote:

Sarigar wrote:IIRC, GW advised this would indeed be the case some time ago. I think once the Space Wolves are released, that would be the last codex that relies on an additional codex in order to play the army.

Depends upon your definition of "relies on." DH and WH both refer to outside codices.

Yeah, but the DH and WH can make an army out of their book without the need for another one, all of the relevant information is in it.

It's only if you want to add the extras you need the other books. Where as the 3rd ed Wolf book couldn't really be used with out the Marine dex, you needed it not only for vehicles but quite a bit of wargear as well.

Unless GW has again changed their stance, SW will not require the Space Marine Codex. GW has been asked about this sort of cross linking. They don't like it.

Sorry, just had to cleanse the pallet after that anime smegma. Nothing better than Adrian Smith to remind people why Space Wolves are the bee's knees. (And that has nothing to do with pre-pubescent girls in a plate-mail bikini)

ChrisAsmadi wrote:

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:
And don't insist Marine factions could fit in one codex. Its stupid and idiotic, and almost insulting. If I told you to share codex space with another completely different army, even if you both wear power armor, you would get upset too. The color of the armor does not make an army, its the character and background. If more people would realize this there would be less fighting.

Eh, Dark Angels and Blood Angels could easily fit in the main codex. It's not like they have much unique to them.

Space Wolves and Black Templars should be separate, though.

As for Space Wolves, it's sounding like it'll be awesome.

Nope, not much at all, except the Deathwing, Ravenwing, and rich lore for the Dark Angels. I know there are alot of unique aspects for the Blood Angels along with thier lore as well, I just don't know what it's called. Both of those chapters along with the Templars and Wolves are worthy of their own codex. Like the quote in there says "The color of the armor does not make an army, its the character and background."

Mastiff wrote:Sorry, just had to cleanse the pallet after that anime smegma.

If you've got the taste of smegma on your palate, I think that's TMI for Dakka.

Not that there's anything wrong with what you do as a consenting adult in the privacy of your own home...

Tyras wrote:
Nope, not much at all, except the Deathwing, Ravenwing, and rich lore for the Dark Angels. I know there are alot of unique aspects for the Blood Angels along with thier lore as well, I just don't know what it's called. Both of those chapters along with the Templars and Wolves are worthy of their own codex. Like the quote in there says "The color of the armor does not make an army, its the character and background."

I mean unit wise, not lorewise.

Rules wise, the only major unique things that are not either messing with the type(HQ, Troops, ect) of a unit or a special character are:

Dark Angels:
*Mixed Ravenwing Squadrons
*A few weapon and squad options

Blood Angels:
*Death Company
*Baal Predators

All these things, plus any special characters that are actually unique (because, let's face it, most of them are not unique enough that they really need to stay as special characters) and some generic character options (Captains in Terminator armour make terminators troops, Captains with Jump packs make Assault Marines troops) and you've got both lists covered by the main codex.

ChrisAsmadi wrote:

Tyras wrote:
Nope, not much at all, except the Deathwing, Ravenwing, and rich lore for the Dark Angels. I know there are alot of unique aspects for the Blood Angels along with thier lore as well, I just don't know what it's called. Both of those chapters along with the Templars and Wolves are worthy of their own codex. Like the quote in there says "The color of the armor does not make an army, its the character and background."

I mean unit wise, not lorewise.

Rules wise, the only major unique things that are not either messing with the type(HQ, Troops, ect) of a unit or a special character are:

Dark Angels:
*Mixed Ravenwing Squadrons
*A few weapon and squad options

Blood Angels:
*Death Company
*Baal Predators

All these things, plus any special characters that are actually unique (because, let's face it, most of them are not unique enough that they really need to stay as special characters) and some generic character options (Captains in Terminator armour make terminators troops, Captains with Jump packs make Assault Marines troops) and you've got both lists covered by the main codex.

That is a really good point.

I'd think most marines could be covered by a single codex. Most of the SM codex is fluff now anyway. If you want moar fluff you can go buy a novel and read up on your favorite chapter of marines.

Typeline wrote:
That is a really good point.

I'd think most marines could be covered by a single codex. Most of the SM codex is fluff now anyway. If you want moar fluff you can go buy a novel and read up on your favorite chapter of marines.

One could probably argue that Space Wolves (maybe) and Black Templars (almost certainly) are unique enough to warrant separate codexes, just like Chaos Space Marines or Grey Knights are.

Considering I like 5th and like the new books, as long as they are consistent in terms of quality rules and fluff, I say the more the merrier.

How about some actual rumors rather than the endless debates as to whether or not certain armies require a codex...huh?

Kaotik wrote:I don't see why they could not use the same layout that SW currently has in the other army lists to speed things up. By that I mean put hte individual Chapter specific traits/units/fluff in a seperate codex. Use the vanilla codex to store all vehicle stats, as well as units available to all chapters that are not Mech. These are just a few things that GW and consumers would like.

1. Causes people to buy 2 codices off the bat if they want to play a specific chapter, legion, or the like.
2. You would have the option as a player to play your chosen chapter, or a generic list as you would have two books. Which in turn helps to move more models.
3. There would never be a "DA" situation where your codex vehicles/units are worse than what is standard in the current edition. Everyone would be using the same vehicles throught the life of the base codex. They would really only need to make sure they balanced the 3-4 special units for each breakout codex.

This could apply to Imerium, Eldar, Chaos, and pretty much any of the breakout lists you all mentioned. The specific books would take little time to write if you had 60-70% of the units covered in the main book. I know there are holes in this idea, but not near as bad as the current setup. Some people are just not happy unless "their" army is unique and individual with it's own book, and special rules, and pretty fluff. These are sadly the same people usually that think GW is not getting the job done on getting to their codex fast enough.

This is what they did in 3rd edition, and it did not work. We had to swap between two codexes, or three if you had 13th company or other variant armies, and the rules quickly became moot when a base codex bumped versions. You can see the problem in the SW codex now with SW drop pods and counter charge. Keeping armies all in one book, and giving the book the flexibility to cover the major variants, is a better approach.

wyomingfox wrote:How about some actual rumors rather than the endless debates as to whether or not certain armies require a codex...huh?

Keeps the thread bumped.

Typeline wrote:Keeps the thread locked.

Fixed your post

[quote=ChrisAsmadiI mean unit wise, not lorewise.

Rules wise, the only major unique things that are not either messing with the type(HQ, Troops, ect) of a unit or a special character are:


Blood Angels:
*Death Company
*Baal Predators

All these things, plus any special characters that are actually unique (because, let's face it, most of them are not unique enough that they really need to stay as special characters) and some generic character options (Captains in Terminator armour make terminators troops, Captains with Jump packs make Assault Marines troops) and you've got both lists covered by the main codex.

Even with relentless, I see them being shot to death. I would have prefered an option that allowed Long Fang squads to purchase wolves (much like a HQ could in the old dex, with a minor exception that the wolves DON'T run away when the pack leader is killed).