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The easiest answer is that no matter how you look at if, if the original squad the unit was deployed with was NOT teleported, then they do not get extra WBB's as technically your opponent has now received a kill point for that squad even though there are remaining members, you now have 1 squad of X instead of 2 squads of X.

In the situation you described grog, the necron player would HAVE to portal squad 1 of the warriors for the extra WBB even if those downed necrons would have joined squad 2 had they made their WBB rolls. The dead necrons do technically still belong to squad 1 until they make or fail their WBB rolls and as long as they were allowed to make a roll they can make a re-roll regardless to what unit they would have joined, it still has to be their original unit that gets ported through the lith for the re-roll to happen.

The Grog wrote:I would venture that you have to declare which unit the dead would join if they stood up

You HAVE to join the nearest unit of the same type when you stand back up from the first WBB roll. There is no declaring or choosing the unit.

and then if a unit it portaled then the reroll affects all units that would join that unit if they stand up.

What?

Kevin949 wrote:The easiest answer is that no matter how you look at if, if the original squad the unit was deployed with was NOT teleported, then they do not get extra WBB's as technically your opponent has now received a kill point for that squad even though there are remaining members, you now have 1 squad of X instead of 2 squads of X.

In the situation you described grog, the necron player would HAVE to portal squad 1 of the warriors for the extra WBB even if those downed necrons would have joined squad 2 had they made their WBB rolls. The dead necrons do technically still belong to squad 1 until they make or fail their WBB rolls and as long as they were allowed to make a roll they can make a re-roll regardless to what unit they would have joined, it still has to be their original unit that gets ported through the lith for the re-roll to happen.

True and false.

codex states that the downed units will roll to join the closest unit, and if the closest unit is then pulled, they are still rolling to join that unit, so they will therefor re-roll and just make 1 BIG squad.

EXAMPLE:

2 squads of wraiths

111 222

1 squad gets wiped out, another loses 1 unit

*** 22*

if the 2's are close enough to the downed 1's, the 1's will roll to join the 2's Making it:

222 222 (assuming they all pass)

if they fail, they still rolled to JOIN, therefor they are now part of that squad for the purpose of monolith teleporting and re-rolling.

and the 1's that do pass will make a large squad, and will move and assult as a single squad

222222

I'm running no destroyers; I'm running 9x wraiths.

I hadn't thought about the C'tan discouraging people from closing with me....you might have something there.

*edit* I have extra points....might as well put them on a destroyer lord.

He's got destroyer body and rez orb....(and a separate warscythe) - what do you guys think the most useful wargear would be to fit in there? He's running with wraiths.

*edit again* I'm leaning towards Phase shifter for a 4++, or Phylactory for my WBB goodness.

omg funny story

i had lord with scythe, phase shifter, res orb, and phylactry.

we were playing appocolypse 10k pts, with 2 6x4 boards next to each other (it was a BIG battle)

i boosted my lord and wraiths over to my opponet's field 2 times before i finally got there. all the while the opponet had some time to fire on me. wounded a wraith and lord, etc etc...

finally i got close enough that i broke the wraiths and lord off, sent the lord after a LR with TL Las. of course the LR moved cruising speed. lord did nothing to the LR...blah blah blah...Opponet's turn, he shoots a horde of lascannons and stuff at me, he takes out the lord... :(

YAY RES ORB AND WBB!

lord gets up with 1 wound, and the land raider didnt move!

he swings!

EXPLODES!

lord is hit by the explosion...

opponet rolls....

6! WTF!

i roll save....

2! WTF!

after that the lord didnt get back up...but it sure was funny he made his points up plus some.

I played a game this weekend with my new Necrons. I have played against Necrons a bunch of time but only played as Necrons twice and this was the first time at a Destroyer Wing. At 1750 I ran

1 Lord (veil, gaze)
10 Immortals
10 Warriors
10 Warriors
5 Destroyers
5 Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers
1 Monolith

Don't have enuff Destroyers to do 15 Destroyers so I figure what the hell and used Heavies. I played against a Salamander list

Vulcan
Lysander
5 Assault Terminators w/ Crusader
2x10 Man Tacticals w/Razorbacks
1x5 Man Tactical w/Razorback
2 Land Speeder (MM,HF)
2 Dreadnoughts (MM,HF)

To my surprise, Turn 6 I had him tabled and I seriously had 2 Immortals and 1 Warrior in my dead pile at the end!

My target priority was taking out his mobility, lucky I stole initiative, by turn two he was on foot. He made a mistake by putting his Crusader on a flank. After immobilizing that his terminators had to walk. I pushed everything to the other flank and just focus fired on units left to right, the last unit I killed was Lysander and the Assault Terminators. With the amount of mobility this list give you (normally I play Orks and SM) it's amazing. He did not get any Assaults the entire game.

Stick and move, cut and run is the best way to describe the tactics for this list

Let me make a more clear crappy graphic.

111111222222

are seperate units of warriors. A bunch of unit 1 gets downed.

1*****222222

One model (C) from unit one is no longer within 6" of the remaining living model in unit one. If it stands up, it has to join unit two. (I realize that half the models would end up joining unit two due to the 'closest unit restriction' but I'm picking a single model to illustrate the point.)

1****C222222

Which unit, if put through a portal, makes model C reroll it's WBB roll? Saying that you would have to portal unit one to do that doesn't make sense to me, especially since model C won't follow the unit through the portal.

I would say that you would divide the models based on which unit they would join if they stood up, thus ensuring that only models that would actually go through the portal and deploy from it get the reroll. Putting unit one through the portal would only let you reroll WBB for the models that would actually join that unit once they stood up.

Kyric wrote:True and false.

codex states that the downed units will roll to join the closest unit, and if the closest unit is then pulled, they are still rolling to join that unit, so they will therefor re-roll and just make 1 BIG squad.

EXAMPLE:

2 squads of wraiths

111 222

1 squad gets wiped out, another loses 1 unit

*** 22*

if the 2's are close enough to the downed 1's, the 1's will roll to join the 2's Making it:

222 222 (assuming they all pass)

if they fail, they still rolled to JOIN, therefor they are now part of that squad for the purpose of monolith teleporting and re-rolling.

and the 1's that do pass will make a large squad, and will move and assult as a single squad

222222

Not really, they don't join the unit until after they are up and repaired, rolling for WBB does not imply they joined that unit yet at all. Look closer at the WBB rule and you'll see that is says, in order, "the repaired necron will immediately be placed in coherency with the nearest unit of the same type. Once joined with a unit, the necron moves and fights with it for the rest of the game. Once joined with a unit..." and so on. So, until they are repaired they can't join any other squad other than the one they were a part of initially. Which is why it is very important to pay attention to which models you assign wounds to and which ones you roll WBB for first.

Kevin949 wrote:Not really, they don't join the unit until after they are up and repaired, rolling for WBB does not imply they joined that unit yet at all. Look closer at the WBB rule and you'll see that is says, in order, "the repaired necron will immediately be placed in coherency with the nearest unit of the same type. Once joined with a unit, the necron moves and fights with it for the rest of the game. Once joined with a unit..." and so on. So, until they are repaired they can't join any other squad other than the one they were a part of initially. Which is why it is very important to pay attention to which models you assign wounds to and which ones you roll WBB for first.

This is correct if you look at the FAQ

Q: When do you remove Necrons that fail there WBB roll?
A:Necrons that fail there WBB roll are removed unless you intend to use the Monolith Portal to telport the unit during the current move.

A Necrons only joins a squad when it is repaired

ideas to ponder







Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the one I was looking for




At the bottom of page 21 of the necron codex the power matrix rule says that If you have no eligible reserves you can phase out a unit within 18" to reemerge from the monolith portal then (This is word for word) "Any models in the unit that, although eligible to self-repair, failed their 'We'll be back' roll at the start of the turn and were removed, may re-roll once they emerge from the portal." Then it goes on to say if you are going to do this then leave the downed models on the table.

thats a nice profile pic
there seems to be a cat pic thing going around

Hi all, I'm setting up my 1750 pts crons on follow setup and would seek opinions from fellow members to comment and further improving it.

1 destroyer lord (phylactery, lightning field, warscythe, phase shifter)
10 immortals
20 warriors
2 tomb spyders
11 scarab swarms
6 wraiths
3 destroyers
3 heavy destroyers

Although I do love the 9 wraith wings and 19 scarab swarms idea in this case by removing immortals off from the lists

1 destroyer lord (phylactery, lightning field, warscythe, phase shifter)
20 warriors
2 tomb spyders
19 scarab swarms
9 wraiths
3 destroyers
3 heavy destroyers

Appreciate to advice on further improvement. Thx.

You can't have 3 squads of wraiths and squad of destroyers... And imo even if you could i wouldn't field only one squad of anything with necrons... That way if opponent shoots down your entire squad, and that is quite eas since you have 3 of them in it, no wbb rolls... Oh and scarabs are fast attack... So you're packing 5 fa
unfortunatly, necrons can't mix good units... You'll have to specialize to be competitive

I agree with Chinchilla. Specialization is the way to go. And ur heavy on fast attack choices on both lists. I know it sucks to have to choose between them, but if it helps, the lighning field scarab combo isn't fantastic, might work on occassion but unless ur tying up blob guardsmen those S3 hits back usually don't do enough to make much difference in combat resolution. Do let us know on what you decide to take and the battle report after! Also, I thought I would add, the guys in the youtube videos are off on a few occassions with the WBB statements. The confliction as to teleportation and the monolith and double WBB is a tough one for sure. I don't have my codex or faq handy atm... but I will do some posting on the topics this weekend for sure. Sorry to be delayed, I know there was a question on the lith and deepstriking I still have to answer as well. I am hoping Saturday I ll have more argument material for you all

deepstrikerz wrote:Hi all, I'm setting up my 1750 pts crons on follow setup and would seek opinions from fellow members to comment and further improving it.

1 destroyer lord (phylactery, lightning field, warscythe, phase shifter)
10 immortals
20 warriors
2 tomb spyders
11 scarab swarms
6 wraiths
3 destroyers
3 heavy destroyers

Although I do love the 9 wraith wings and 19 scarab swarms idea in this case by removing immortals off from the lists

1 destroyer lord (phylactery, lightning field, warscythe, phase shifter)
20 warriors
2 tomb spyders
19 scarab swarms
9 wraiths
3 destroyers
3 heavy destroyers

Appreciate to advice on further improvement. Thx.

Chinchilla wrote:You can't have 3 squads of wraiths and squad of destroyers... And imo even if you could i wouldn't field only one squad of anything with necrons... That way if opponent shoots down your entire squad, and that is quite eas since you have 3 of them in it, no wbb rolls... Oh and scarabs are fast attack... So you're packing 5 fa
unfortunatly, necrons can't mix good units... You'll have to specialize to be competitive

This.

themrsleepy wrote:I agree with Chinchilla. Specialization is the way to go.

And this.

Redundancy is key for maximizing WBB potential.

So I had a game tonight vs. General Grog's Orks - Ghazghkull, KFF Mek, dual battlewagons, nob squad, burnas....much like my own Orks.

Bottom of turn two, I assaulted six of my wraiths into his 9 man diversified Nob squad.

I don't know WHAT the hell I was thinking. >< My other three wraiths were tied up with a deffkopta unit more than 6" away. I assaulted them there too. Seriously have no clue what I was thinking. >< Poof went my wraiths, and the nobs wrapped into my Deceiver and Destroyer Lord, who had just killed Ghazghkull.

Fortunately, the following turn the Lord went down (and later came back up) while the Deceiver consolidated out of assault, leaving the nobs to get particle whipped until they ran away.

But damn....I need to remember that wraiths are basically souped up space marines.

It was bound to happen sooner or later. The only thing that can stand up to Nobz in CC in the Necron codex is a C'Tan.

Yup. They're tough, but brittle. Just 6 wounds at T4, and when they all go down that's the end of them.

Well lets be honest Dash, it was bound to happen sooner or later. after your win rate I'm not surprised you got a bit cocky to be fair! Even so, look at the positives from it:

Never again will you over-estimated your (until then well performing) Wraiths and you now know (better) that against such death-star type units, that it's best to particle whip through sacrificing Wraiths or hit and running the deciever. Live and learn man, you still did well. Keep it up!

Just Dave wrote:Well lets be honest Dash, it was bound to happen sooner or later. after your win rate I'm not surprised you got a bit cocky to be fair! Even so, look at the positives from it:

Never again will you over-estimated your (until then well performing) Wraiths and you now know (better) that against such death-star type units, that it's best to particle whip through sacrificing Wraiths or hit and running the deciever. Live and learn man, you still did well. Keep it up!

Notice how he never said how the game ended...

EDIT before I EDIT: Can't we let this thread die????

WarOne wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Well lets be honest Dash, it was bound to happen sooner or later. after your win rate I'm not surprised you got a bit cocky to be fair! Even so, look at the positives from it:

Never again will you over-estimated your (until then well performing) Wraiths and you now know (better) that against such death-star type units, that it's best to particle whip through sacrificing Wraiths or hit and running the deciever. Live and learn man, you still did well. Keep it up!

Notice how he never said how the game ended...

EDIT before I EDIT: Can't we let this thread die????

Oh you can knock us down...

But We'll Be Back!

Did I just say that?

Thanks for the advice guys, kin'er rework my 1750pts list as follow:

1 destroyer lord
15 necron warriors
15 necron warriors

3 destroyers
30 scarab swarms

3 heavy destroyers
1 monolith
2 tomb spyder

Hope to get opinion of it

deepstrikerz wrote:Thanks for the advice guys, kin'er rework my 1750pts list as follow:

1 destroyer lord
15 necron warriors
15 necron warriors

3 destroyers
30 scarab swarms

3 heavy destroyers
1 monolith
2 tomb spyder

Hope to get opinion of it

First thing,you have 4 fast attack squads here as Scarab Swarms can go in, at max, groups of 10 bases and you have 30 total plus the destroyers. IMO I'd take off two of those and then make a second group of Destroyers so you can have the WBB if a unit gets wiped. For your Warriors, why have 15? Take the standard 10 and invest those extra points in some upgrades for your Lord or maybe even filling out those Destroyer units. If you've still got points after all that then throw Disruption Fields at people or even fill out the Tomb Spyder squad by adding the third to it.

Warriors should always come in groups of 10, unless you have leftover points. More units = more locations = harder to sweep them all

Ok, appreciate above comment. my initial though is having more warriors would reduce the phase out situation.

How effective exactly a disruption field work on warrior? If you roll D6 on 6 you straight away penetrate your opponent and they have to roll for invul. save (if available) or taking wounds like normal?

Some questions here:
For WBB roles if Destroyer lord didn't have resurrection orb,

Scenario 1
2 of same units are within 6" range can they do the WBB for it but cant role if its Mawed down by normal weapon as long as the unit are within 18" of monolith they get another WBB shall they fail the first one but they have to come out from monolith, is that correct?

Scenario 2
2 of same units are within 6" range they cant role 1st WBB for its Mawed down by power weapon or twice the strength or toughness and they only entitled to 2nd WBB if they're within 18" of monolith they get another WBB shall they fail the first one but they have to come out from monolith.


Here's the rework list

HQ
1 destroyer lord (100pts)
- Destroyer body (30pts)
- Phase Shifter (30pts)
- Lightning Field (25pts)
- Phylactery (15pts)
Total : 200pts

TROOPS
15 necron warriors (160pts)
15 necron warriors (160pts)

FAST ATTACK
5 destroyers (250pts)
10 scarab swarms (160pts)
10 scarab swarms (160pts)

HEAVY SUPPORTS
2 heavy destroyers (130pts)
2 heavy destroyers (130pts)
1 monolith (235pts)

TOTAL : 1745PTS

OR

HQ
1 destroyer lord (100pts)
- Destroyer body (30pts)
- Phase Shifter (30pts)
- Lightning Field (25pts)
- Phylactery (15pts)
Total : 200pts

TROOPS
10 necron warriors (200pts)
10 necron warriors (200pts)

FAST ATTACK
5 destroyers (250pts)
5 destroyers (250pts)
10 scarab swarms (160pts)

HEAVY SUPPORTS
2 heavy destroyers (130pts)
2 heavy destroyers (130pts)
1 monolith (235pts)

TOTAL : 1755PTS (5pts excess though)

Hope to get opinion of it

If there is no orb, you can't ever have wbb against power weapon, not even with monolith...
If it is normal weapon, then you get first wbb and second only if you teleport them to monolith...

As for list, second one is much better... I'd drop the. Scarabs and add 4 more destroyers... You can make other destroyers squad of 4 to get pts... And your lord needs warschyte... I'd give him res orb to keep destroyers alive, phase shifter, destroyer body and warschyte...

Second list. Drop the phylactery and lightning field on the lord, give him a res orb and warscythe and run him with your destroyers to keep them up. Judging from your points cost it looks like you are running d-fields on your warriors and scarabs...get rid of them (never ever ever ever ever take d-fields on warriors....ever). Either keep the scarabs and run them as a roadblock/tarpit to protect your warriors, or trade them in for 4 destroyers (+ the points for dumping all the disruption fields) and adjust your groups so you have 5x dest, 4x dest, and 4x dest.

Good perception, didn't see that
df is useless on warriors.. Why would you charge into vehicle when you can shoot it
it is ok on scarabs if you play scarab heavy list, but don't like it still...
Just vo full destroyer list, keep warriors in reserves and use destroyers to bring mayhem

Maelstrom808 wrote:give him a res orb and warscythe and run him with your destroyers to keep them up

Keep them up? The only thing you need to worry about with your Destroyers is something str 10 which should be first on your target prority other than that if you getting assaulted your doing something wrong

Judging from your points cost it looks like you are running d-fields on your warriors and scarabs...get rid of them (never ever ever ever ever take d-fields on warriors....ever).

I agree on not taking disruption fields on warriors but it's just about mandatory for scarabs. With the amount of attacks and speed Scarabs have they make really nice anti-tank units

General_Chaos wrote:I agree on not taking disruption fields on warriors but it's just about mandatory for scarabs. With the amount of attacks and speed Scarabs have they make really nice anti-tank units

Well it depends... If you try to catch cruising vehicle (like eldars) it's no good... If you try to catch combat speeding vehicles it's fine (10 scarabs = cca 3 glancing hits)... Only brutal thing is if you charge unmoved vehicle (then it is cca 6 glancings)... But if something charges into scarabs, they're dead meat... Stupid fearless

General_Chaos wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:give him a res orb and warscythe and run him with your destroyers to keep them up

Keep them up? The only thing you need to worry about with your Destroyers is something str 10 which should be first on your target prority other than that if you getting assaulted your doing something wrong

Judging from your points cost it looks like you are running d-fields on your warriors and scarabs...get rid of them (never ever ever ever ever take d-fields on warriors....ever).

I agree on not taking disruption fields on warriors but it's just about mandatory for scarabs. With the amount of attacks and speed Scarabs have they make really nice anti-tank units

Str 10 is not that uncommon. Broadsides, Manticores, Medusas, Demolishers, Vindicators. All can do very nasty things to destroyers, and since you are putting so many of your eggs into that one basket, you better protect them.

If you are using scarabs as screens, there is no real point in putting D-fields on them. If you have 40 points left over, sure it's not a bad place to drop it, but it's not vital depending on how you are using them.

hi guys, again thank for the valuable inputs to improve the army lists. Here goes:

HQ
1 destroyer lord (100pts)
- Destroyer body (30pts)
- Phase Shifter (30pts)
- Resurrection Orb (40pts)
- Warscythe (10pts)
Total : 210pts

TROOPS
10 necron warriors (180pts)
10 necron warriors (180pts)

FAST ATTACK
5 destroyers (250pts)
5 destroyers (250pts)
10 scarab swarms (160pts)

HEAVY SUPPORTS
2 heavy destroyers (130pts)
2 heavy destroyers (130pts)
1 monolith (235pts)

TOTAL : 1725PTS

For Res. orb, if the lord is not within 6" in range with units which killed by power weapons. Is the unit are entitle for WBB roles?

What is the most effective way to kill an IC with str 10 or toughness 8 onwards, aware my list doesn't come with tanker (Night bringer or deceiver). I tried my luck before with 3 heavy destroyers on it and due to poor roll and poor odds plus only 1 attack per unit, over 3 turns i cant even put an end to that IC.

For scarab swarms, i'm using it as IC and tanks killer for its vast no. of attacks and able to absorb lots of wounds (30 wounds) prior its get nailed down.

For destroyer and destroyer lord, isn't it better if he's equipped with Staff of Light if were to travel together and shoot from distance? but again with 12" shoot range its not a very effective as until you get near enough. The odds of wounding character with toughness more than 8 is proven to be difficult and ineffective not mentioned vehicle with AV of 10-14.

For warscythe is effective against vehicle but when against tyranids like hive tyrant or other monstrous creature especially non-mechanical units, it will be useless against it totally right?

For necrons the most biggest challenge seems to be creating sufficient amount of attacks per squad. Each lesser no. of attacks are reducing the odds of wounding enemies especially those with not less than 20 units per squads (e.g. imperials guards, orks, tyranids, etc.)

As many reviews who never like swarms, i sees the vast amount of attacks that would turn the odds away as to eliminate more enemies on CC compare to any range attack.

Not to offend anyone, but i faced this bottlenecks over my battles with glob troops strategies.

Hope to get ways to tackle it.