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Hey folks!

This is not a joke, I'm starting Necrons!

Over the next week, I plan on buying:
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1x Deceiver
1x Destroyer Lord
1x Regular Lord
9x Wraiths
20x Immortals
40x Warriors
2x Heavy Destroyers
3x Monoliths
9x Tomb Spyders
20x Scarab Swarms
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There are three army types I had considered at the 2k level:

#1: Destroyer Lord with 9x Wraiths + 3x Monoliths keeping 20 warriors in reserve.

#2: Destroyer Lord with 9x Wraiths + Lord on Foot + 20 Immortals + 2 heavy destroyers.

#3: Lord on Foot with 20 warriors (reserve?) + 9x Tomb spyders + Scarabs galore.

A friend let me borrow a few necrons / proxy scenario #1 in a game against Mech IG. Three vendettas, 5 chimeras, 3 leman russ.....my wraiths weathered two turns of shooting without a loss; I couldn't seem to roll a 1 or a 2. I don't pretend to believe this will happen consistently, and was looking for some advice.


1. Thoughts on these three list types? Suggestions on changes?

2. I like the idea of wraiths + Destroyer Lord. Thoughts on that configuration in particular?

3. General thoughts on massed scarabs? Probably with Disruptor fields?

4. Thoughts on the Deceiver? In my game he moved up behind the monoliths until turn three, then broke free....and took three vendettas worth of lascannons to the face and died without doing anything the whole game. Obviously I should have used him better. And while my wraiths survived miraculously, one of my monoliths immobilized itself on dangerous terrain while a second got immobilized from a lascannon.

Well, as a mech IG player, I can tell you that Scarabs with disruption fields wreck my vehicles by glancing, especially with a destroyer lord. 2+ cover save makes me want to die.

Although, Hellhounds wreck them handily.

I am still in disbelief... however, I will ask my friend friday for Necron advise...

I have always been a fan of the Wraiths with their ability to turboboost through terrain...

My other necron friend has used the Deceiver for his ability to rearrange his side of the board, pin enemy units, and annoying IC by declining fights on the count that he does not feel like it.

Mass Scarbs leave me uneasy because, they are not necrons, they are toughness 3... I am also not sure what happens if you are wounded by a Blast that is S6+, do you lose two models? I could see one slot of scarabs w/distruption and 2 slots of wraiths... (although my friend runs destroyers because of the wound saturation from a full squad)

Despite the invulnerable save Wraiths are incredibly fragile, pretty much any decent army should be able to kill a single Tactical Squad in a single round of shooting and thats essentially all they are once the bullets start flying (if you drop them all they aren't getting WBB). They don't exactly put out a huge amount of damage either (ala Eldar syndrome, hit hard then fall over to return attacks). Both the first and second lists are built heavily around Wraiths and I really don't think they will do particularly well. The first is probably better than the second, at least you can hide behind the Monolith Wall as you move up but doing this means you are moving pretty slowly. You also have very little shooting, particularly anti tank firepower, which means more often than not those Wraiths are going to be forced to try and open up transports before being shot in the face. The second one has more firepower but with nothing to hide behind those Wraiths are going to disappear pretty quickly.

The third list I think has potential, not going to be incredibly competitive (but you have decided to play Necrons so hopefully realise thats out of the question from the start) but dealing with all those Spyders is going to be a real pain. While they aren't as mobile as the Wraiths they can take far more punishment before dying and hit quite a bit harder as well.

Destroyer Lords are pretty good, they can be a real pain to deal with for many armies as he can't be ID which make running him around by himself a viable option. Throw in the upgrade which makes him able to WBB with full wounds (can't remember what its called) and he can spend the whole game chasing tanks with his Warscythe without really worrying about dying. I would probably make sure you have a more support based Lord (with Res Orb etc) first though.

The most effective Necron lists I have seen have all been based heavily around Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers. Necrons are never going to have a great time dealing with a heavily Mech list but massed S6 shooting (which can still glance AV12+) is probably your best bet to do it. The mobility of Destroyers helps keep them out of combat and negates the quickest way to kill off Necrons, Sweeping Advance. T5 and WBB means they can generally take a decent amount of shooting as well, particularly if you can keep a Res Orb nearby.

First, +1 to everything Powerguy said. Couple of things to add:

- As he said, Wraiths can be fairly fragile, but a unit of Wraiths attached to a Destroyer Lord equipped with a Warscythe, Phase Shifter (4++ save), and Res Orb can make for a pretty nasty CC unit.

- If I take a foot lord, I usually put a Res Orb and VoD on him. It can make for some nice last minute objective grabs, or in conjunction with a scarab screen, it provides a handy GTFO ability if your opponent is about to engage your warriors in CC.

- If I use C'tan, I usually use them as counter charge units. Strong CC, but limited mobility makes them especially suited for this role.

- heavy Destroyers are highly unreliable in my experiance. You usually need at least a unit of threee to make sure you damage what you are shooting at.

I am very sceptical...

If you have a destroyer lord together with wraiths, he will not be together with his warriors, because he would tie himself up in the enemy line.
so the enemy has a good chance to get an easy sweep against the warriors and that is the game. Monoliths have the problem, they are damn solid, but slow and they dont do very much damage. Their main strength is blocking the enemy and dragging necs around.
If you play the wraiths more cautious, I would go for a few destroyers to back them up with shooting and nec models. They can snipe between monoliths pretty good.

Against ork mek lists you will have about 0,0 fun, the bugiies will block the monoliths out the wraiths will get killed soon by ork counters, and deathrollas take out monoliths quickly.
Against well deployed mech guard, you will get grinded to death by templates (Manticore Executioner, the trick with shooting on monolith and scattering behind it into the infantry, you know... ) and lascannons and outmanoeuvred by the quicker chimeras. Against mass orks you could have fun with monolith ordnance and concentrated wraith power.
Against wolves the wraith should have trouble even with grey hunters because of counter attack. SW Scouts are not really your friend either concerning warriors in reserve... And thunderwolves will slaughter the monoliths with ease not to speak about jaws against warriors

no, I think the problem is, your offensive is not punchy enough against most opponents, and your defensive is once reached most likely to break apart soon or just too slow to bother your opponent. So what I think will happen is either the opponent will drive quickly around the wraiths ignoring the harrassment or tieing them up with unimportant units and go for your bunker quickly or he will totally crush the wraith offensive and then wait for you to get close.

The problem with 9 spyders is the extremely low speed and the lack of power against fast driven vehicles. so they can be easily ignored and 20 warriors vs an army is a hard hiding game The second lists lacks troops at all

Here is a trick with the tomb spyder.

If you have a lone tomb spyder, have him summon a scarab swarm. Now, when he is being shot at, you use the higher toughness of two models (spyder) for rolling to wound. Afterwords you can allocate the wound on the scarabs.

This does not work if your wounded 2 times, but if there are 3 you can allocate an extra wound to the scarabs, etc...

Wraiths are not fragile. 3 Wraiths alone in a corner is fragile. 9 Wraiths moving up together with there great speed is not fragile and on top of that they are only 369pts. Hardly the entire army and a nice side force to the main Necron thrust. Add in a Destroyer Lord with Res Orb (only thing that can keep up with them) and you have your WWB role no matter what you attack. People, rightly, worry about CC monster tearing into the Warriors, well the Wraiths stop those CC monsters and at str 6 they can take down some tanks to. Keep them, as my former Gov used to say "they are bleepin' goldin'."

You have your fast moving assault element and now you need your firebase. I'd look at the Immortals next. Two squads of 8-10 form a solid base. They will get their WWB roll vs. many ranged guns and don't need an Orb nearby to survive. The HQ choice with them is Lord with Veil or Deceiver. I'd go with the Veil to increase the mobility of the army. I'm not sure if the Deveiver can stand up to the IG or SW shooting you'd likely see in 2k. The Veil Lord has the option of remaining out of site with a unit and then deep striking across the board and away from the Battlewagons or T-wolves.

Finally the Heavy Destroyers, with the changes to the vehicle damage table, aren't what they used to be. I'd go with 1-2 Monoliths in the heavy slot. These won't be the backbone of the army, but they can serve to give you mobile cover from shooting, a source to bring your warriors/immortals out of combat and another res orb.

I'd vote for a modified version of list #2.

HQ - Destroyer Lord, orb, phylactory
HQ - Lord, Veil
EL - 8 Immortals
EL - 8 Immortals
TR - 10 warriors
TR - 10 warriors
FA - 3 wraiths
FA - 3 wraiths
FA - 3 wraiths
HV - Monolith
HV - Monolith

I like it. It gives you the flexibility, with deep strking mono's and veil, to concentrate on one small section of the board instantly. It gives you tactical flexibility in that all your points aren't tied up in one type of unit and reduces the rock/paper/scissors effect and will make your games multidimensional (Necrons sometimes suffer from having to be played the same way every game which can get boring)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I found a codex. The destroyer lord would have to take Destroyer body, res orb, phylactory and you'd have the points for two squads of 8 Immortals. Phylactory is an acceptable sub for phase shifter and no warscythe since in 5th edition we hit vehicles on the rear now.

Dashofpepper,

From what I found, here is the balance I struck for my 1850 point army:

HQ-
The Deceiver-300 points
Necron Lord on Destroyer Body, Lightning Field, Nightmare Shroud, and Phylactery with Warscythe-210 points

Troops-
10 Necron Warriors-180 points
10 Necron warriors-180 points

Fast Attack-
10 Scarab Swarms with Disruption Fields-160 points
4 Destroyers-200 points
3 Destroyers- 150 points

Heavy Support-
Monolith-235
Monolith-235

Target saturation is the key. I have two juicy Necron Warrior squads as bait for opponents to go after, and six other units that can pack a solid punch.

General set up- Throw the Necron Destroyers in cover and use them as needed as a distraction until.

Set up the Necron Destroyer Lord with the Scarabs. His Lightning Field combo is simply amazing coupled with the speed his unit moves down a field with. Turn 2 assaults with a Warscythe attack that rips anything apart.

The final set up is depending on the opponent. If I am facing ALOT of high Str weaponry, the Monoliths form a mobile wall from which the Necron Warriors fall in behind, and the Deciever backs up the warriors.

In essence, if an opponent is looking to go in for the kill, he will go for the Warriors, BUT he has to go through the murder alley of the Deceiver, Monoliths, and Destroyers to get there.

I have found splitting the Necron Warriors up and placing them at opposite ends of a table (when not expecting flankers or DE levels of speed) forces an opponent to divide up in order to go after them, and dedicate significant resources to eliminating them.

If it is an objectives game, nothing says denial like a Monolith hogging an objective. Place objectives within close proximity of one another and use the Necron Monoliths and Warriors. While true dedicated CC units will mop up the Warriors, if you pressure the opponent correctly, they will be hard pressed to defend their side of the field and take yours.

The only thing I would like to add, is to be wary of the chimera hiding a psyker battle squad. It will make your destroyer lord and squad of wraiths bounce around and be useless. If you attach the lord to a squad of scarabs, he gains fearless and negates this ability, but that psyker battle squad will be your bane if you fight it. Everyone so far has not mentioned deep striking monoliths! I love doing that and scattering the opponents army off a good deep strike. It is also the most effective LOS block of all time. Sometimes that's the only reason I do it. But, in general I like your lists Dash, I would say though 9 wraiths is effective, 6 wraiths 5destroyers is better. Oh and sorry about not being able to piecemeal stuff. I'm really either trying to sell it all or wait for a new codex.

I like the Nightbringer a lot more than the Deceiver.

Etheric Tempest is a very underrated ability.

Here's my pretty damn effective 2000 list:

The Nightbringer
Lord with Veil of Darkness, Res Orb

10 Warriors X2

4 Pariahs

3 Destroyers X2
10 Scarabs with D-Fields

2 Monoliths

___________________________________________

People will say that Pariahs are full of fail, and for the most part I would agree, but combining their soulless ability with the LD affecting goodness of the C'Tan(and the prevalence of Psykers in the game anymore) makes a small squad hiding behind a Monolith seem pretty bitchin'.

And you never know when 8 S5 Attacks that ignore every type of save will come in handy...

Edited for point value.

I favor a foot lord with veil and rez orb leading 10 immortals, 2 x10 warriors, 2 x5 destroyers, 2 monoliths, and a "filler" unit for fun - wraiths, scarabs, H. destroyers are all likely candidates.

I'll hold the warriors in reserve and deploy the liths as a wall for the immortals with the lord to advance with, and keep the destroyers on the flanks to provide covering fire and slow/pop transports. I advance one lith and particle whip with the other, alternating to advance up the battlefield, using the flux arcs on the moving lith to glance vehicles and pepper squads.

When the warriors come on, they stay behind the liths and get ported up to grab objectives. Use the direction your portal faces to your advantage for this!

Immortals and the Lord counter deep strikers and form a nice firebase. The filler unit does whatever it does best - anti-vehicle with disruptor scarabs usually. I like the wraiths too, but haven't used that many of them before.

tips for trying to survive till new codex.


1 unit of 10 warriors per 500pt

All the destroyers you can afford.....they are our money makers.

Wraiths I only use with a wraith lord set up.

An effective tactic versus me recently was using a monolith for los blocking.
it's huge, hard to kill, and can fit half your army behind it while it moves into position.

sharkticon wrote:An effective tactic versus me recently was using a monolith for los blocking.
it's huge, hard to kill, and can fit half your army behind it while it moves into position.

Haha seconded on this! I just posted this exact thing in another thread

WarOne wrote:Dashofpepper,

From what I found, here is the balance I struck for my 1850 point army:

HQ-
The Deceiver-300 points
Necron Lord on Destroyer Body, Lightning Field, Nightmare Shroud, and Phylactery with Warscythe-210 points

Troops-
10 Necron Warriors-180 points
10 Necron warriors-180 points

Fast Attack-
10 Scarab Swarms with Disruption Fields-160 points
4 Destroyers-200 points
3 Destroyers- 150 points

Heavy Support-
Monolith-235
Monolith-235

That's almost exactly what my army is turning into - how funny is that! About the only difference is that I have 3 'liths (saving $ towards the third), no deciever, a hand full more destroyers (can never have enough destroyers), and 7 scarabs who run with the destroyer lord to form a screen.

I played a match against an ork player who had everyone piled into two trukks and a warwagon. It was my very first match ever and I was annilated. I wasn't playing the army I'm building now and didn't relize how good the orks are at cc and how bad warriors are at cc. He just sort of drove up, unloaded his boyz and slaughtered everyone in cc and I phased out. Won't let that happen again.

Where are the flayed ones?

oh my gawd the successes i have had with flayed ones!

as an experienced necron player, i would say that all 3 lists that you have posted would pose not a single problem to beat. Why? Phase out.

Phase out

PHASE OUT...

Is there an echo in here? why yes! i think there is. Phase out is the demise of necrons honestly. Necrons would be FINE in 5th edition if it weren't for this damn rule.

at the 2k point level, you should be taking about 30 necron warriors, and another 20 of any other necron unit. (make your necron number AT LEAST 55-60.) But wait a minute? thats a lot of points right?

yea, its going to be. which means 1 thing...Bye bye C'tan.

a LOT of good players will totally ignore any C'tan a necron player brings to a game. Why? kill enough warriors, and the C'tan goes away before it has a chance to do any REAL damage.

a C'tan will NEVER earn its worth in points in ANY game. i have TRIED and TRIED and TRIED and TRIED some more!the most i can do with a C'tan is maybe make up 1/2 of his points. they are just too weak in this version...

and not to add...did you know that the C'tan can be insta killed? GK Force weapons will take the T8, S10/9, 5W character and say....what c'tan? 300 pts down the drain in a single CC...

My successes with necrons: Flayed ones, Wraiths, Warriors and Destroyers.

Immortals...Where to start with immortals? i like them. wonderful unit, lots of shots, WBB, good weapon but once again, they are cut down easily because of their pts cost, and low initiave.

Flayed ones:Fantastic Melee unit. Has the ability to kill even Terminators in CC! One of my Favorite things to do is put a lord with Viel and res-ord with my flayed ones. its usually one of the most threatening combo's i have. why? because flayed 1's are the exact same cost as a necron warrior, but IMO, is much more survivable, has some special rules (Infiltrate, Deep strike, MTC, and The visage that makes enemies hit on 6+ regardless). on top of that, if you have some points to spare, and you are going against a mech type army, then you could easily put D-fields on them for 30 pts per squad. (21 pts per model...Which is sstill relatively cheap in the necron world)

Wraiths make good cheap point investments. one of my favorite things to do is Infiltrate flayed 1's and turbo 3 squads of wraiths at the opponets while leaving my necron warriors to enjoy the slaughter. highly effective as this can make an opponet panic pretty bad. Even out flanking with the flayed ones can be just amazing.

Spyders...ah, i like spyders. infact, i <3 spyders.but there is 1 problem....field lots of spyders? you field lots of kill points. your opponet will almost always beat you if you have a lot of spyders just out of KP's...


Anywho, not sure if this will help you with necron army decisions or not, but gl let meh know!

Gotta disagree on the C'Tan, buddy. The Nightbringer in particular. With proper deployment and play, he can make it impossible for things like Ork Boyz and seer councils to assault your stuff. Throw a couple sacrificial speed bumps in your opponent's way and they won't be able to ignore him, and you can hide him from threatening shooting behind a Monolith. The C'tan ignore terrain with makes them somewhat faster than your average non-winged MC.

The Nightbringers ability is not that great, you roll 2d6 IF most of the models are not 4 str, and ONLY the closest model has to move away all the other models just have to remain in coherency to that model.

Now the Deceiver... there's some nasty combos with Nightmare shrouds, pariahs, and the Golden Boy that can make people cry

General_Chaos wrote:The Nightbringers ability is not that great, you roll 2d6 IF most of the models are not 4 str, and ONLY the closest model has to move away all the other models just have to remain in coherency to that model.

You really need to read that again. It's if any of the models in the unit are less than strength four. And they all have to move 2d6 away from the Nightbringer. It also affects all units within 6 inches. You've got that very, very wrong.

I tabled an entire IG horde 1850 with three liths and the nightbringer. Dawn of war deployment, deep strike all three liths to block him running away and etheric tempested everything else out of the way while ctan moved and ran so he could assualt vehicles. a few destroyers to pop the chimeras, and my warriors never even got shot at. Nightbringer has his purpose, he is not a save all games by any means, but he will always take double or triple his points value in shooting before he goes down, save a few terrible things like sternguard in a drop pod... learned that lesson the hard way Flayed Ones have purpose, I agree, but not so much as I would field them routinely. If they had fleet, then yes, more often, it would be a much cheaper counter assualt unit. But generally my tactics of shoot them as they get close and use my army's strengths of WBB and guass to my advantage, make the enemy play my game rather then them call the shots, makes it more effective. 9 wraiths 30 flayed ones and two destroyer lords sounds fun though, I do admit

I played Necrons back in 4th edition mainly but i did play a wraith wing. If I remember correctly the Monolith can teleport a unit of Necrons from anywhere with in 18" and the Monolith counts as stationary for disembarking purpose's. I used to run one Lith for every squad of wraiths. My strategy was fairly simple, move Lith 6", disembark 2", move 12" assault 6" for a total of 26" range on the first turn. My 1500 point list usually used 2 squads with a destroyer lord in each. Not to many armies think is fun to have 6 wraiths and two lords in there line on the first turn. And once your opponent becomes wise to the idea, and tries to hide in the back of their deployment zone just move slowly behind the lith until you are ready to reach out and strike. I used the 3rd FA slot for a unit of scarabs as a tarpit against assault armies or extra assault against the shooting army, very flexible unit. I have done the all 3 squads and liths at 1850 even tho one runs with out the lord. One of the lords has to have a res orb, if you run into any good close combat unit they will have a way around your WWB roles with out one. Hopes this helps.

themrsleepy wrote:I tabled an entire IG horde 1850 with three liths and the nightbringer. Dawn of war deployment, deep strike all three liths to block him running away and etheric tempested everything else out of the way while ctan moved and ran so he could assualt vehicles. a few destroyers to pop the chimeras, and my warriors never even got shot at. Nightbringer has his purpose, he is not a save all games by any means, but he will always take double or triple his points value in shooting before he goes down, save a few terrible things like sternguard in a drop pod... learned that lesson the hard way Flayed Ones have purpose, I agree, but not so much as I would field them routinely. If they had fleet, then yes, more often, it would be a much cheaper counter assualt unit. But generally my tactics of shoot them as they get close and use my army's strengths of WBB and guass to my advantage, make the enemy play my game rather then them call the shots, makes it more effective. 9 wraiths 30 flayed ones and two destroyer lords sounds fun though, I do admit

So you are saying that you played against an IG player who looked at the big scary things, and proceeded to waste his turns of shooting at things that didn't matter? On top of that you deepstriked all 3 liths on the same turn? How lucky. Or did you deepstrike when you came on for the dawn of war deployment? (if you did, you cheated, but I've seen people try to pull it, so that is why I'm asking, deep striking is only allowed if you go into reserves, which is different than DoW deployement)

At 1850 with 3 liths and a Ctan, you have no army left. Against a competent general with a even average list, you WILL be tabled in short order.

Necrons have a number of issues, mostly that they don't have many choices in what you can take. Then with almost half of what you can take being terrible. Things that I know work: destroyers, heavy destroyers, immortals, necron lords. Things that can work, but take a bit of effort: scarabs, tomb spiders. Things that only work against newer players, or players unfamiliar with crons: monoliths, Ctan, flayed ones. Things that don't work unless you are lucky, or when they do work are underwhelming (things that really suck) Pariahs, wraiths. The thing that you MUST take, which doesn't suck, but isn't good for its points: warriors.

I know I'll have quite a bit of disagreement with people over the 'tiths especially, but I have NEVER lost to a multiple lith list, and only lost once to a single lith list. I HAVE lost multiple games against destroyer wing lists. Why? Destroyer lists are much faster and responsive to enemy movement. They have a much better chance of demobilizing the enemy, and they can play keep away unit they do. They don't have huge point sink units that take away too much and only get 1-2 turns in offensively. (liths and ctan) Destroyer lists can keep the engagement range long, a foot based list or lith based list cannot. How well do even CC units in necrons fare? not very well I've seen.

Hmmm, I'll pm you when I get home of a sucessful and out of the box player I know who has enjoyed his 'Close Combat Necrons' over in 40K Online(linkies to bat reps and such).

It contains Deceiver, max pariahs, Tomb Spyderes en mass, 20 Warriors and some other odd trimmings.

Yes it's really wierd and different, but I've played against it and it's pretty cool. Not sure how competitive it is for you or the environments you play at but hopefully it will be useful.

i would deffinitley add 4-5 destroyer to the list, i run with 2 squads of wriaths and a destroyer lord and one squad of 5 destroyers. it gives you another 15 S6 attacks but you dont have to worry about bad dice rolls and suddenly your being swept away. its a little isurance just in case.

CC Necron armies don't work for me, but 2 Lord's VoDing with 10 Immortals each can shoot most units to death. Expensive but tough and powerful.

Tomb spyders are handy and I like to take 4 or 5 Pariahs to keep any TH/SS Termies in check. Hitting first is nice for a change!!

Monolith is handy to re-roll wbb if you are unlucky, and can soak up a lot of fire in the first few turns.

If you are in a position as a Necron player who uses Monoliths to turtle can find that it is easy to do so.

As an army that must secure objectives, you need Destroyer body Necrons in order to achieve some sort of victory in that regard. Monoliths and Warriors walking behind Monoliths won't do that for you.

However, I do like my list because it incorporates Monoliths and Destroyers.

Monster Rain wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:The Nightbringers ability is not that great, you roll 2d6 IF most of the models are not 4 str, and ONLY the closest model has to move away all the other models just have to remain in coherency to that model.

You really need to read that again. It's if any of the models in the unit are less than strength four. And they all have to move 2d6 away from the Nightbringer. It also affects all units within 6 inches. You've got that very, very wrong.

It say exactly what i just posted, move the nearest model in the unit away first, then move the rest of unit to remain in coherency with it...

General_Chaos wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:The Nightbringers ability is not that great, you roll 2d6 IF most of the models are not 4 str, and ONLY the closest model has to move away all the other models just have to remain in coherency to that model.

You really need to read that again. It's if any of the models in the unit are less than strength four. And they all have to move 2d6 away from the Nightbringer. It also affects all units within 6 inches. You've got that very, very wrong.

It say exactly what i just posted, move the nearest model in the unit away first, then move the rest of unit to remain in coherency with it...

Exactly as though you're falling back.

Monster Rain wrote:Exactly as though you're falling back.

and it states how you do that... third edition codex = third edition rules

Bottom line either way is the power sucks because you can't push any type of Marine around. The Deceiver is just better.