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Very nice. I think with that combination you can make every single Necron army known to man... excepting the C'tans. Their total amount of unit choices is shamefully small, innit?

oh dash, just to let you know the Heavy D s come with regular guass cannons. So if you wanted to buy those they can be magnetized for either, I did that on a few, or each half of those cannons with a little work turn into a decent warrior converted immortal. I have pics in my gallery of my shoddy work, but just some ideas to help.

This is the thread that brought the mono deep striking issue to my attention: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/304580.page#1734482

It's actually OT from the original question so you have to filter a bit. INAT ruled in favor of RAI, but of course not every tournament uses INAT so just be armed going in with the knowledge that you could get nailed by it. As to how it should be played, that's an argument for YMDC, and probably one that won't end well.

I just had my first game with Necrons.

16 points under a 2k list:

Deceiver, Necron Destroyer Lord, 3 wraith squads, 3 monoliths, 2 units of 12 warriors.

Blood angel player with two redeemer land raiders and two terminator squads (thunderhammers), two predators and some deep striking assault marines.


He wins the roll and makes me go first. Then steals initiative. =p

Triple monoliths make a line, screening wraiths, destroyer, C'tan behind; warriors in reserve. One of his land raiders immobilizes itself in his rear, the other moves up 12 and smokes. He opens up and bounces off of monoliths. My turn monoliths edge forward and make a 3 sided box, C'tan, destroyer lord and wraiths go inside. Monoliths immobilize his unimmobilized land raider.

His turn, TH terminators get out of immobilized land raider and charge leading monolith (lascannons bounce off everywhere). He gets two glances and a penetrate, causing two weapon destroyed results and shaken. Lol.

My turn, C'tan wanders through my monolith and eats his terminators, monoliths template land raider and wreck it, Wraiths and Destroyer lord boost 24" across field towards predators.....no invul save on his terminators, he declares Necrons broken and concedes.

LOL.

Dashofpepper wrote:I just had my first game with Necrons.

16 points under a 2k list:

Deceiver, Necron Destroyer Lord, 3 wraith squads, 3 monoliths, 2 units of 12 warriors.

Blood angel player with two redeemer land raiders and two terminator squads (thunderhammers), two predators and some deep striking assault marines.


He wins the roll and makes me go first. Then steals initiative. =p

Triple monoliths make a line, screening wraiths, destroyer, C'tan behind; warriors in reserve. One of his land raiders immobilizes itself in his rear, the other moves up 12 and smokes. He opens up and bounces off of monoliths. My turn monoliths edge forward and make a 3 sided box, C'tan, destroyer lord and wraiths go inside. Monoliths immobilize his unimmobilized land raider.

His turn, TH terminators get out of immobilized land raider and charge leading monolith (lascannons bounce off everywhere). He gets two glances and a penetrate, causing two weapon destroyed results and shaken. Lol.

My turn, C'tan wanders through my monolith and eats his terminators, monoliths template land raider and wreck it, Wraiths and Destroyer lord boost 24" across field towards predators.....no invul save on his terminators, he declares Necrons broken and concedes.

LOL.

Hah! Funny that the blood angels player had the gall to call your 3rd edition codex broken.

El Oh El, grats on the win although it kinda sounds like he did most of the work for you

Yeah, get used to the "broken necrons" comments. You'll get them sometimes even after a loss.

Hang on a sec, did he not have a HQ choice?

Probably a good idea avoiding the Immortals. That arm/gun/arm assembly in metal was a giant paint to assemble.

That guy you played took a really bad matchup, didn't he?

Dashofpepper wrote:I just had my first game with Necrons.

16 points under a 2k list:

Deceiver, Necron Destroyer Lord, 3 wraith squads, 3 monoliths, 2 units of 12 warriors.

Blood angel player with two redeemer land raiders and two terminator squads (thunderhammers), two predators and some deep striking assault marines.


He wins the roll and makes me go first. Then steals initiative. =p

Triple monoliths make a line, screening wraiths, destroyer, C'tan behind; warriors in reserve. One of his land raiders immobilizes itself in his rear, the other moves up 12 and smokes. He opens up and bounces off of monoliths. My turn monoliths edge forward and make a 3 sided box, C'tan, destroyer lord and wraiths go inside. Monoliths immobilize his unimmobilized land raider.

His turn, TH terminators get out of immobilized land raider and charge leading monolith (lascannons bounce off everywhere). He gets two glances and a penetrate, causing two weapon destroyed results and shaken. Lol.

My turn, C'tan wanders through my monolith and eats his terminators, monoliths template land raider and wreck it, Wraiths and Destroyer lord boost 24" across field towards predators.....no invul save on his terminators, he declares Necrons broken and concedes.

LOL.

Sounds like you played an lol terribad player. I beat a grey knight player with my sanguard ba too. Far as declaring necrons broken, yeah it happens. And sometimes for good reason. They can do some really obnoxious stuff with wbb and what not. Busting your balls to kill half a squad only to get it to stand back up can just get annoying.

Dashofpepper wrote:I just had my first game with Necrons.

16 points under a 2k list:

Deceiver, Necron Destroyer Lord, 3 wraith squads, 3 monoliths, 2 units of 12 warriors.

Blood angel player with two redeemer land raiders and two terminator squads (thunderhammers), two predators and some deep striking assault marines.


He wins the roll and makes me go first. Then steals initiative. =p

Triple monoliths make a line, screening wraiths, destroyer, C'tan behind; warriors in reserve. One of his land raiders immobilizes itself in his rear, the other moves up 12 and smokes. He opens up and bounces off of monoliths. My turn monoliths edge forward and make a 3 sided box, C'tan, destroyer lord and wraiths go inside. Monoliths immobilize his unimmobilized land raider.

His turn, TH terminators get out of immobilized land raider and charge leading monolith (lascannons bounce off everywhere). He gets two glances and a penetrate, causing two weapon destroyed results and shaken. Lol.

My turn, C'tan wanders through my monolith and eats his terminators, monoliths template land raider and wreck it, Wraiths and Destroyer lord boost 24" across field towards predators.....no invul save on his terminators, he declares Necrons broken and concedes.

LOL.

What do you mean by "wanders through my monolith"? You didn't teleport the Deceiver, did you?

Eidolon wrote:Sounds like you played an lol terribad player.

Seriously...

Congrats on winning versus Blood Angels with Necrons and all, but that dude seriously had no clue whatsoever.

Your longest range shooting was 24 inches. What was the mission?

YES he had an HQ choice; I skimmed the details. The C'tan didn't teleport through the monolith, he walked through the corner of it.

I just played Gwar's Space Wolves, and Gwar's not a shabby player. =p I did beat up on him too.

Several lessons learned:

1. C'tan probably isn't worth using. Life is full of mechanized lists, and the Deceiver is easy to avoid.

2. The Necron Force Org sucks. Taking out the Deceiver frees up 300 points. I can add an HQ, troops and elites (My Fast Attack and Heavies are full). That means a necron Lord and....crap. 200 points later, I can't really afford a unit of immortals. Maybe I should run dual necron lords and pair one of each with a unit of wraiths.

Dashofpepper wrote:YES he had an HQ choice; I skimmed the details. The C'tan didn't teleport through the monolith, he walked through the corner of it.

I just played Gwar's Space Wolves, and Gwar's not a shabby player. =p I did beat up on him too.

Several lessons learned:

1. C'tan probably isn't worth using. Life is full of mechanized lists, and the Deceiver is easy to avoid.

2. The Necron Force Org sucks. Taking out the Deceiver frees up 300 points. I can add an HQ, troops and elites (My Fast Attack and Heavies are full). That means a necron Lord and....crap. 200 points later, I can't really afford a unit of immortals. Maybe I should run dual necron lords and pair one of each with a unit of wraiths.

Vassal isn't really a good test.

1. If you're spamming Destroyers, like you probably should be, they won't be mechanized for long.

2. If you're going to run two HQs at high point levels you might as well have a C'Tan. Otherwise your opponents will have no compunction about charging straight at you.

I'm running no destroyers; I'm running 9x wraiths.

I hadn't thought about the C'tan discouraging people from closing with me....you might have something there.

*edit* I have extra points....might as well put them on a destroyer lord.

He's got destroyer body and rez orb....(and a separate warscythe) - what do you guys think the most useful wargear would be to fit in there? He's running with wraiths.

*edit again* I'm leaning towards Phase shifter for a 4++, or Phylactory for my WBB goodness.

Dashofpepper wrote:I hadn't thought about the C'tan discouraging people from closing with me....you might have something there.

I've been playing Necrons for a long time! It really does help. And when the gak does hit the fan it's nice to have a giant, save ignoring monster with a bunch of special powers.

Dashofpepper wrote:He's got destroyer body and rez orb....(and a separate warscythe) - what do you guys think the most useful wargear would be to fit in there? He's running with wraiths.

I like the Warscythe. Ignoring invulnerable saves and 2d6 armor penetration is definitely worth 10 points. Oh, and the Phase Shifter. The Res Orb could make your Wraiths live a bit longer as well.

Don't miss out on the Veil of Darkness though.

I always run my destroyer lords with warscythe, phase shifter, and res orb. Phylactery is nice on the 5s and 6s, but you are only going to make use of it if you go down, and even then only 1/3 of the time. Phase shifter comes into play far more often in my experiance. EDIT: VoD on a walking lord is nice for zapping troops onto an objective once you clear the way. I don't recomend taking them on destroyer lords though. One way or another, you'll be paying points for a method of transportation that you will not be making the most of, and points are a very precious commodity for us.

Trying to use C'tan as an offensive unit in the age of mech is almost an exercise in futility. Put them down in a place that you want to control and use them as counter charge or area denial. The same pretty much goes for anything in the codex that is stuck with 6" movement and no other options such as teleporting, deepstrike, infiltrate, outflank, etc.

Dashofpepper wrote:
1. C'tan probably isn't worth using. Life is full of mechanized lists, and the Deceiver is easy to avoid.

2. The Necron Force Org sucks. Taking out the Deceiver frees up 300 points. I can add an HQ, troops and elites (My Fast Attack and Heavies are full). That means a necron Lord and....crap. 200 points later, I can't really afford a unit of immortals. Maybe I should run dual necron lords and pair one of each with a unit of wraiths.

The point of a C'tan is to play goalie for your infantry. Closing to melee gets a lot harder with one hiding out of LOS somewhere waiting to savage incoming assault units.

I never liked a phylactery. It only has a 1 in 3 chance of doing anything at all. I prefer a phase shifter.

A lot of people are still highly unfamiliar with Necrons. Your regular opponents will learn soon enough.

How did the Wraiths do against SW?

Maelstrom808 wrote:I always run my destroyer lords with warscythe, phase shifter, and res orb. Phylactery is nice on the 5s and 6s, but you are only going to make use of it if you go down, and even then only 1/3 of the time. Phase shifter comes into play far more often in my experiance. EDIT: VoD on a walking lord is nice for zapping troops onto an objective once you clear the way. I don't recomend taking them on destroyer lords though.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting it for the Destroyer Lord. Forgive me if it seemed so.

I'd just always recommend a foot lord with the Veil. It's won me so many games, and saved me from phasing out even more.

The Monolith wall technique works great for Necrons in almost all of the games you will play. If played correctly, you can go very far with a build based around that many monoliths, a C'tan, and a destroyer lord. However, there will be that rare game, where killing AV 14 is no problem for your opponent and things become a bit more complicated.

Watch out for thunderwolves with power fists and manticores. Other than that, you will have all the tools you need to beat most opponents. But with only 2 troops, wich cannot really be avoided now, getting a massacre victory will be very very difficult.

Alright....adding a phase shifter it is.

Dashofpepper wrote:

I just played Gwar's Space Wolves, and Gwar's not a shabby player. =p I did beat up on him too.

If he did lose to your Necrons, he is definitely a shabby player. Like you said before, you had never lost to a Necron army before.

My personal 2 cents on the nightbringer in a Necron all comers list in a tournament setting.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If you take the nightbringer you're going to run into sternguard+Null zone, a tyranid list with a bazillion poisoned attacks, or once 5th ed Dark eldar come out with poisoned ranged attacks guess who's coming to dinner? The end result is he's a waste of points and the loss of a res orb.

If you leave the nightbringer at home you're either going to end up getting paired off with a FNP army such as chaos PM, or BA, or run into a horde of TH/SS termies. As soon as you leave that bad boy home you'll end up needing him against armies where he will be well worth his points.

That type of situational usefulness on the necron's most powerful and sometimes needed unit is one of the many reasons I don't play them. It seems almost every game necrons are in they either have the advantage, or they are screwed.

I played another game tonight, this time with Tomb Spyder wing.

9x Tomb Spyders, 10x Immortals with a Lord / rez orb / veil...

30x Scarabs, 20 warriors, destroyer lord with warscythe, rez orb, lightning field.

I played against Black Templar. I ultimately won (and tabled him) but a few issues arose.

1. Is the Destroyer Lord / Lightning Field trick worth it? My lord and scarabs boosted across the field and then got assaulted by terminators, who did 16 wounds to my scarabs. The lightning field caused 8 wounds back and dropped two terminators (one lightning claw, one Thunderhammer), but I ended up ultimately losing by 18 or so, and the lord took 4 fearless saves (and the scarabs took the rest) dropping 3 wounds onto my Lord. He ended up dying (then getting back up) then dying (and getting back up), and dying (and getting back up a third time).

2. Tomb Spyders: At the beginning of the game, all nine spyders pooped out a scarab. Tomb spyders hover, but move like infantry, while scarabs ignore terrain. So if I have a scarab in front of a tomb spyder, and I assault a unit in cover, such that only the scarab can make it into base...

3. Destroyer Lord is STR5, I4, 3 attacks base. I'm not sure I should be throwing him into assaults. 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound - he whiffed a lot for me.

Dashofpepper wrote:I played another game tonight, this time with Tomb Spyder wing.

9x Tomb Spyders, 10x Immortals with a Lord / rez orb / veil...

30x Scarabs, 20 warriors, destroyer lord with warscythe, rez orb, lightning field.

I played against Black Templar. I ultimately won (and tabled him) but a few issues arose.

1. Is the Destroyer Lord / Lightning Field trick worth it? My lord and scarabs boosted across the field and then got assaulted by terminators, who did 16 wounds to my scarabs. The lightning field caused 8 wounds back and dropped two terminators (one lightning claw, one Thunderhammer), but I ended up ultimately losing by 18 or so, and the lord took 4 fearless saves (and the scarabs took the rest) dropping 3 wounds onto my Lord. He ended up dying (then getting back up) then dying (and getting back up), and dying (and getting back up a third time).

2. Tomb Spyders: At the beginning of the game, all nine spyders pooped out a scarab. Tomb spyders hover, but move like infantry, while scarabs ignore terrain. So if I have a scarab in front of a tomb spyder, and I assault a unit in cover, such that only the scarab can make it into base...

3. Destroyer Lord is STR5, I4, 3 attacks base. I'm not sure I should be throwing him into assaults. 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound - he whiffed a lot for me.

1) I've never been able to make the lightning field/destroyer lord combo pile in enough extra wounds to work for me. I think it's better used on a foot support lord...but only if you are using a second foot lord as the first should be packing a VoD and Res Orb.

2) Hmmm, that's one for YMDC. First reaction is no, but I'd have to read over it a little better.

3) The Codex isn't exactly overflowing with great combat units. Generally you have to pick on units that are weak to mid-level in combat ability. If you try and tackle strong melee units at thier own game, you'll get eaten alive...er whatever the case may be for crons. Pretty much the Crons are mediocre shooters and mediocre assaulters so you need to be pretty careful in your choices of what and where you apply them. Mainly I use the D-Lord against vehicles and shooty units that need to die early in the game.

Good to see you having success with Wraiths. They are a really cool unit and highly underrated.

Dashofpepper wrote:I played another game tonight, this time with Tomb Spyder wing.

9x Tomb Spyders, 10x Immortals with a Lord / rez orb / veil...

30x Scarabs, 20 warriors, destroyer lord with warscythe, rez orb, lightning field.

I played against Black Templar. I ultimately won (and tabled him) but a few issues arose.

1. Is the Destroyer Lord / Lightning Field trick worth it? My lord and scarabs boosted across the field and then got assaulted by terminators, who did 16 wounds to my scarabs. The lightning field caused 8 wounds back and dropped two terminators (one lightning claw, one Thunderhammer), but I ended up ultimately losing by 18 or so, and the lord took 4 fearless saves (and the scarabs took the rest) dropping 3 wounds onto my Lord. He ended up dying (then getting back up) then dying (and getting back up), and dying (and getting back up a third time).

2. Tomb Spyders: At the beginning of the game, all nine spyders pooped out a scarab. Tomb spyders hover, but move like infantry, while scarabs ignore terrain. So if I have a scarab in front of a tomb spyder, and I assault a unit in cover, such that only the scarab can make it into base...

3. Destroyer Lord is STR5, I4, 3 attacks base. I'm not sure I should be throwing him into assaults. 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound - he whiffed a lot for me.

On point 1, Necrons outside of the Wraiths and C'Tan are not CC beasts. If you face a true dedicated CC unit (such as a souped up Terminator squad), watch the Necrons go OM NOM NOM NOM'ed. For Necron Lords on Destroyer Bodies, I take the 10 Scarab Swarm units with the Necron Lord and boost towards his shooty units as a harassment tactic. With a Warscythe, make sure the Lord gets locked in combat with things that cannot outright kill your Scarabs (Str 6 or above) or have higher I than your lord, as the Warscythe ignores ALL saves, and thus is the main punch of your Destroyer Lord retinue. Lightning Field is added gravy against units like Ork boyz who add in a few extra shots and because of their low saves, can be felled by quite a few Lightning Field hits.

As for the unit as a whole, I expect all of them to die a horrible, horrible death. One game, I boosted turn 1, ate bolter fire from a combat squad Marine unit, destroyed them in combat on turn two (between 30 some-odd hits from the Scarabs, a few Warscythe smacks, and finally a few Lightning Field hits), boosted towards two other CS Marine units, got flamered inbetween by a passing Land Speeder, engaged in combat turn 4, and finally was felled when he brought along two more CS Marine units in Rhinos to do so mop-up work. But in between, the unit made back it points on 3 Marine squads and tied up another two from engaging my Necron Warriors, who congalined to take up 2 objectives.


2. Spyders and spyderlings are one unit, so everything would hit last in combat as both would get engaged into CC and if assaulting through cover, while Scarabs ignore difficult terrain tests, I believe that they would still swing last in combat. However, they are I2 anyway, so there is a good chance they will still probably swing last anyway. And the Spyder is I2 as well.

3. If you give the Destroyer Lord a warscythe, it changes EVERYTHING. He plows through units with amazing speed...PROVIDED that the Necron Lord in question does not get CCed by CC dedicated units.

The one big thing that Necrons lack is a true CC specialist unit. Wraiths are more or less a hit and run kind of unit, being able to get the jump on small units that cannot take a brutal half dozen wounds or so and then swing back with decent hits. Flayed ones are in the same boat. They don't have the stamina to go toe to toe with say Khorne Berserkers.

The Grog wrote:
Wraithwing seems fragile to me. 9 Wraiths with a D.lord sounds good on paper. 9 S6I6 attacks on the most mobile unit in the game with a 3++?

i know im a little late in the game here but, the wraithwing with 9 wraitsis acually 27 S6 I6 attacks, 36 S6 I6 attacks on the charge which is what you should be doing with wraiths and a dest lord. that is absolutly devistating!

I wouldn't call that devastating, considering it's eating all 3 FA slots and has no power weapons or rending.

I generally find the Lightning Field worthless, since it only goes on unsaved wounds. Even if you take 10 unsaved wounds, you are only getting 3 wounds reflected onto T4 targets (S3).

Lords are not good close combat units. You get 1 wound per round on average, a little more on WS3 or T3 targets. Yes, that one is with a warscythe, but just one. You got really lucky on the WBB roll there.

I can't comment on the Spyder question.

Dashofpepper wrote:I played another game tonight, this time with Tomb Spyder wing.

9x Tomb Spyders, 10x Immortals with a Lord / rez orb / veil...

30x Scarabs, 20 warriors, destroyer lord with warscythe, rez orb, lightning field.

I played against Black Templar. I ultimately won (and tabled him) but a few issues arose.

1. Is the Destroyer Lord / Lightning Field trick worth it? My lord and scarabs boosted across the field and then got assaulted by terminators, who did 16 wounds to my scarabs. The lightning field caused 8 wounds back and dropped two terminators (one lightning claw, one Thunderhammer), but I ended up ultimately losing by 18 or so, and the lord took 4 fearless saves (and the scarabs took the rest) dropping 3 wounds onto my Lord. He ended up dying (then getting back up) then dying (and getting back up), and dying (and getting back up a third time).

I've never had it be worth it. I'd much rather have just about anything besides lightning field these days. Phase shifter for one, and nightmare gaze for another.

Dashofpepper wrote:
2. Tomb Spyders: At the beginning of the game, all nine spyders pooped out a scarab. Tomb spyders hover, but move like infantry, while scarabs ignore terrain. So if I have a scarab in front of a tomb spyder, and I assault a unit in cover, such that only the scarab can make it into base...

The scarab ignores terrain, the tomb spyder is infantry but he's also a monstrous creature. You always take the "slowest" movement characteristic for a unit. Which means you use the monstrous creature rules, so he get's 3d6 pick the two highest. However the scarab still has to make a dangerous terrain test.

Dashofpepper wrote:
3. Destroyer Lord is STR5, I4, 3 attacks base. I'm not sure I should be throwing him into assaults. 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound - he whiffed a lot for me.

The destroyer lord is about "quality" wounds not a mass of wounds. Being on a jetbike gives him the mobility that he needs to apply pressure. They are good for taking out dreadnaughts, other people's ic's, and other vehicles (as long as he has a warscythe, and the phase shifter). Him with a squad of wraiths will finish off th+ss terminators. Him + scarab's can take down farseer council's (you need to limit their attacks back). Him paired with immortal's is good for wading through marine squads (tougher for them to wound back. It seems fairly boring but lord + destroyer body + phase shifter + warscyhe + resurrection orb just seems to make him good for all targets.

I appreciate all the continued advice! The Lightning field will go away never to return.

I don't suppose anyone has wraiths or Tomb Spyders to trade? I have destroyers, warriors and a Big Trade Thread aimed at fleshing out my army.

I wouldn't count on a Destroyer Lord killing ICs. Admittedly, most combat ICs will have trouble getting wounds on him unless they are at least S5 or have a powerfist. But you won't be doing wounds back very fast either, and it is likely that some other enemy unit will come help.