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If it helps, I was originally referring to it's use by the Romans, not it's scientific use. Should have made that clear.

If you're translating the word from Latin to English, "canis" means "dog." In the nominative case.

However, since Gothic is not Latin, but a made-up language based on badly butchered Latin, Canis means "Wolf" because GW sez so.

Less latin, internet advances, and dog vs wolves, more codex ranking God darn it!

Manchu wrote:CSM are getting a pretty raw deal ITT. Even the lame "BT are okay but not really" argument is more convincing, IMO.

I thought my opinions on CSMs were far clearer and far more... coherent than most of the rankings that came after it, ESPECIALLY the Black Templars. I dislike CSMs. I dislike their models, I dislike their fluff, I dislike their rules for being yet another MEQ army. At least their rules have variety and competitiveness, which puts them above Necrons, but it's quite clear that I don't like them. At all.

I fail to see how this is not "convincing". I know my opinions better than you know my opinions, I would think...


As for writing the next part, that will have to wait until tomorrow. After a long day of studying and so on, I'm going to bed. I have a chem test tomorrow, and a lab as well.

Canis is now a genus of the family Canidae, which includes dogs and wolves.

In latin it just meant dog though, the latin for wolf was lupus I believe.

Now the proper names for dogs and wolves is Canis Familiaris and Canis Lupus respectively.

ive gotten into an arguement with my wife about reading this....and im willing to sacrifice my time with her to follow the leader on the listings (just cant spare my time with my daughter...shez only 17 months and she knows what a crisis suit is...there is hope for her yet!!!)...but....yeah....besta luck 2 you on ur chem test, and i whole heartedly agree about the necrons....i just wish GW would quit the bull, and drop all the codices at once...that would make life so much easier...and theyd b richer to boot...but alas, companies dont have brains....and THE MAN wantz 2 keep a brutha down...(lol)

Good god 24 hours, 3 pages later and still no DA :(

They should of named Canis Varg.

Varg is wolf in Norwegian and sounds cool then Canis.

"Varg Wolfborn"

People under 12 wouldn't get he was like, a wolf or whatever.

calling it, Sisters are #1 because they are super women in space and that other crap

Hang on i'll grab you some salsa for that chip on your cold, living metal shoulder.

Ordo Dakka is slowly becoming one of my favorite people on Dakka.

You just don't see quality snarkery like that these days.

Ordo Dakka wrote:Hang on i'll grab you some salsa for that chip on your cold, living metal shoulder.

Haha, good one

Kurgash wrote:calling it, Sisters are #1 because they are super women in space and that other crap

And they're hot!

But if you say that to their face, they'll kill you.

SaintHazard wrote:Ordo Dakka is slowly becoming one of my favorite people on Dakka.

You just don't see quality snarkery like that these days.

definitely agree with the bottom part, I havent seen enough to justify Ordo Dakka being a favourite, but that post is a start...

Mr Nobody wrote:But if you say that to their face, they'll kill you.

Which is why they're hot!

/ducks and covers

Melissia wrote:I fail to see how this is not "convincing". I know my opinions better than you know my opinions, I would think...

Wait, it's not that I'm not convinced that what you posted are your true opinions. I'm not actually concerned about your opinions simply as opinions but rather as points in a discussion. And as points, I don't find that they build a convincing case for CSM being either a low-end faction or a low-end codex. Although your arguments against CSM were certainly far more fleshed-out than those against the Black Templar faction/dex, I find that I can agree more with your take on the latter than the former.

Manchu wrote:

Melissia wrote:I fail to see how this is not "convincing". I know my opinions better than you know my opinions, I would think...

Wait, it's not that I'm not convinced that what you posted are your true opinions. I'm not actually concerned about your opinions simply as opinions but rather as points in a discussion. And as points, I don't find that they build a convincing case for CSM being either a low-end faction or a low-end codex. Although your arguments against CSM were certainly far more fleshed-out than those against the Black Templar faction/dex, I find that I can agree more with your take on the latter than the former.

Does she have to convince you? Is that a thing she has to do?

You had this problem in Dave's thread too. Chill, kick back, and enjoy the ratings.

SaintHazard wrote:Does she have to convince you? Is that a thing she has to do?

You had this problem in Dave's thread too. Chill, kick back, and enjoy the ratings.

It's a forum. On a forum, we discuss things. If all I wanted to do was read Melissa's opinions without comment (or with making numerous off-topic comments), I would urge her to start a blog. I don't understand why you seem to have such trouble with this concept. Just to be clear, I'm not going to argue with you any further about this again.

Manchu wrote:It's a forum. On a forum, we discuss things. If all I wanted to do was read Melissa's opinions without comment (or with making numerous off-topic comments), I would urge her to start a blog. I don't understand why you seem to have such trouble with this concept. Just to be clear, I'm not going to argue with you any further about this again.

So 1) everything has to be an argument, but 2) you're not going to argue with me over whether everything has to be an argument?

Hypocrite much?

The discussion should be on-topic. If you want a thread where you and I argue about how people should post on Dakka, we can start a thread in OT about it.

So you two should start a thread arguing about arguing to not argue? I think that's a triple negative.

Lets get at least halfway through before the thread gets locked, shall we?

SaintHazard wrote:If you're translating the word from Latin to English, "canis" means "dog." In the nominative case.

However, since Gothic is not Latin, but a made-up language based on badly butchered Latin, Canis means "Wolf" because GW sez so.

Point, I guess, though my other statements still stand.

Anyway, any other ranking predictions for us?

To get this back on track, I'll summarize Melissa's post about CSM and why I find it unconvincing:

Paragraphs 1 & 2: Confusing the HH books with the fluff in C:CSM. Yes, the CSM origin is the HH. But the current book is not about the HH-era Legions at all. Discussion of CSM fluff should entail discussion of M41-42, esepcially the Black Legion and Huron's Red Corsairs. Some people don't like/cannot accept the idea of motley CSM warbands and just want evil SM chapters. That might be a valid point but it isn't even discussed here. I agree that the characterization of Horus's motives by BL authors has been pretty weak thus far. That however, has little to do with C:CSM. A review of the dex should focus not on Horus, Magnus, and Fulgrim but rather Abaddon, Ahriman, and Lucius.

Paragraphs 3 & 4: Melissa says the Codex is actually great and derides those who whine about it as basically spoiled. I totally agree with this. But if that's the case, then why is C:CSM second-to-last? Maybe people who deride the book deserve this criticism but then . . . isn't Melissa deriding the book? And at the same time praising it? This is pretty confusing. What is clear, however, is that this is not an argument supporting the low rank she gave this book.

So why is C:CSM ranked so low by Melissa? Well, to be fair, she tells us at the beginning of her post on them:

Melissia wrote:I just don't like them.

And I've seen that same unsupported sentiment echoed throughout the thread ever since. So, yes, an argument like "the Black Templars fluff seems somehow off" ends up being a more interesting and convincing point than "I just don't like CSM."

kronk wrote:

Kurgash wrote:calling it, Sisters are #1 because they are super women in space and that other crap

And they're hot!

Damn Kronk where did you get that picture? That costume is fantastic. Though you can see the wood grain on the storm bolter in her left hand...

One of the main reasons I dont care for the new CSM codex was taking out the fluffy demons and replacing it with generic ones. I love the World Eaters and now not being able to take bloodletters and bloodthirsters all but killed my will to keep building that army.

To counter the "chaos has bad fluff" argument. Read the old chapter approved they are awesome. One of the main reason I like the traitor legions are most of the primarchs that are evil are there because they were duped by horus OR the emperors own ignorance. Angron of the world eaters for example just wanted to die with his fellow gladiators on his home world. The emperor basically kidnapped him and Angron had to watch as his people were butchered without him.

So in finalizing while I do think 15 is a bit low I certainly wouldnt fault anyone for putting it that low...except its lower then Dark angels and thats just mean lol

In addition, it's the fact that many genuinely don't care any more about the "mission" of Horus that makes them cool in my mind. Some have no real reason for doing the things they do, other than a Joker-like urge to just do it. The World Eaters, for example, love killing - it's not revenge or a way to a better human empire, but a way of life for them, and that's what makes them cool. The Iron Warriors were always paranoid and hateful, and never truly trusted the Emperor; to them, Horus' claims made sense, so it also made sense to ally with him for the short term. Cold, brutal logic.

However, I can also see why people would dislike them, and I certainly don't begrudge Melissia her opinion, as i expect she has good reason for it. In any case, roll on the next Codex!

@Gorskar: Disagreeing with someone and explaining that disagreement is not begruding them their opinion. Perhaps everyone has good reasons to think whatever they think. But without stating what they are . . . well, we could see all of Melissa's ranks in just one post as a list, right? No explanation needed. Ouze did this last page. You just described a really great point in favor of CSM from the actual CSM dex so I don't have to assume you have a good reason to say you like CSM. You explained it. Now if you said "I like CSM because they are stupid and lame" I would wonder what was going on.