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this makes me angry. Where am I supposed to get all of these 60mm bases for my metal heavy weapon teams?
Once more, arbitration rules the day.

CplPunishment wrote:this makes me angry. Where am I supposed to get all of these 60mm bases for my metal heavy weapon teams?
Once more, arbitration rules the day.

GW dont care, really. Just make it out of cardboard if you really have to. Not ideal but it will stop TFG from having at you.

HAVE AT YOU!

CplPunishment wrote:this makes me angry. Where am I supposed to get all of these 60mm bases for my metal heavy weapon teams?
Once more, arbitration rules the day.

Direct sales? A compass and some plasticard?

Kujo wrote:So if I empty a chimera and put a culexis in it, then drive that chimera next to the psyker chimera, the choir will use its -Ld power while the culexis can use his 11-shot pistol of sickness out of his chimera's firepoint, right? He's like an anti-MEQ gatling gun.

I know this post was six pages ago, but that serves me right for being offline for two days.
You can't put any of the Assassins into a transport Vehicle, just as they cannot join squads (Daemonhunters p26). So you will just have to move it a bit more carefully, and live with Ld7 on the psykers, unfortunately.

Another Weaken Resolve use: A fleeing unit that is assaulted must make a morale test to regroup, or they are destroyed. Shouldn't be too hard to cause that.

Another Weaken Resolve use: A fleeing unit that is assaulted must make a morale test to regroup, or they are destroyed. Shouldn't be too hard to cause that.

Stated a bunch of pages back, but QFT. Rough riders seem quite appealing all of a sudden. . They're also one of the few units that didn't get nerfed, and you can now offically add meltaguns in a lance squad. They seem prime candidate for Creed's 'add scout to anything' rule; pop up on a flank, waste a tank, charge some support troops (devastators/ broadsides anyone?) withy S5 I5 power weapons. Better then taking Kamir, that's for sure...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:What's the reasoning behind that brilliant decision?

I think you'll find it's a combination of things, and none of them are malice-related.

1. Apathy - They don't care and/or it is simply not important to them.
2. Incompetence - They haven't realised that they made the change.
3. By Design - Not malice related, but they designed the rules to fit around the new Command Squad sprue, rather than the other way around, so no Storm Bolter on sprue = no Storm Bolter in CHQ.

Point 2 there is by far the most worrisome to me.

Nah.

It's #4. Arrogance - GW believes the way THEY play is the way everyone should. If they think that heroic characters should not have rifles and should beat people with sticks then that's the way it will be. Never mind that other players might feel differently, never mind that GW itself has said otherwise in the past, that's how they feel this week and that's how it's gonna be.

Till Codex IG v6 comes out in 2013.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:It's #4. Arrogance - GW believes the way THEY play is the way everyone should.

That means that one day when a [certain member of these boards] and GW have a disagreement, we'll finally see what immovable object/irresistible force actually looks like!

CplPunishment wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:What's the reasoning behind that brilliant decision?

I think you'll find it's a combination of things, and none of them are malice-related.

1. Apathy - They don't care and/or it is simply not important to them/
2. Incompetence - They haven't realised that they made the change.
3. By Design - Not malice related, but they designed the rules to fit around the new Command Squad sprue, rather than the other way around, so no Storm Bolter on sprue = no Storm Bolter in CHQ.

Point 2 there is by far the most worrisome to me.

Number two reminded me of something funny. There is a picture of a catachan wielding a bolter. The words underneath him say "Catachan Sergeant". The rules do not state bolters as an option for sergeants.
So I'm inclined to believe that number two is the case.

I vote for #2. In the May White Dwarf, on page 21 the guy (who shall not be named) that wrote the new IG Codex states that "Another order that will be popular will be 'First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire,' which gives lasgun-armed Guardsmen an extra shot, so a squad of ten with lasguns are rolling 20 dice at targets over 12" away and a massive 30 dice at anything closer!" What's wrong with his statement? Hmmm...seems that the writer of the codex (who also plays IG) forgot that he nerfed the sergeants so there are never 10 lasguns in a 10 man squad. It's his first - and hopefully last - codex but perhaps he'll learn from his errors in this one and do better on the next one he writes (Dark Eldar ).

I also noticed that in the modeling section the Standard Bearer was modeled with a power weapon. I might have missed it, but I'm pretty sure that's not an option for the veterans in the company command squad.

Gwar! wrote:Well actually, you have gone from having 9 Lasguns + Heavy Weapon to having 6 Lasguns, a Las Pistol and a Heavy Weapon. So without orders, thats 5 Shots less per squad. Thats 25 a Platoon, over 3 Platoons thats 75 Shots gone. A Turn. Factor in orders and thats 135 Missing shots A TURN. 135 Lasbolts will feth up anythings day

Uh, what? We are going down by 2 shots per squad at 12.1 - 24" without orders:

Old: 10 models -special -loader = 8
New: 9 models -special -HWT -sergeant = 6

That's a difference of 2 shots per squad, or 6-8 per STC platoon, and perhaps ~21 shots over three platoons per turn. Of course this doesn't change the fact that it was a ridiculous decision.

CplPunishment wrote:this makes me angry. Where am I supposed to get all of these 60mm bases for my metal heavy weapon teams?
Once more, arbitration rules the day.

I got lucky and landed a 15 pack at my LGS for $5. Currently just mounting the weapons on them with recessed areas for the metal minis to go in.
Like mini display trays. Raised areas for the las cannons and a place for the two crew to slide in and out. Easy way to track wounds too.

I'll post some pics to my blog later today hopefully.

This has maybe been done to death but I thought I'd put in my ten cents on Creed and Kell (and particularly Creed).

My opinion on the matter is that he is far from mandatory. For 90 points (I think, don't have the book in front of me) you are essentially getting a 24" command radius and an extra 2 orders for a command squad plus a couple of other goodies.

Frankly I don't think that paying 90 points for some extra orders is even in the ball park of being competitively priced. Let me break down why I think that is the case.

Realisticly I think that there are about two different core competitive builds for IG. The first is a largely mechanized force with guys in Chimeras (or possibly Valkyries/Vendettas). In either case this army is largely unable to benefit from orders and certainly not worth sinking an extra 90 points into them that doesn't get you any extra tanks or guns in return. Yes, your command HQ will ocassionaly tell squads that were pinned after their vehicle was destroyed to get back into the fight or use bring it down on its own melta guns but in both of these cases the normal two orders per turn should suffice. I think this will be the most popular build (and it is what I am working on) and it is a real shame that orders interact so poorly with transports.

The second core build that I can see people building around is the blob platoon. This build will be able to get some use out of Creed but frankly I think you'd be much better off just buying a second command squad (for 40 points less) and then using those points that you saved for voxes to make your orders more reliable (probably cheaper than buying Kell too) and from there either regimental standards or comissars to keep the blobs in place. The 24" range here should be redundant as well since all you'll have to do is position each of your command squads to where they are within 12" of at least one model from a couple of differnt blobs. You also don't have all of your eggs in one basket here and it will be much harder for your opponent to take out your command structure.

Now I'm not saying you could never get any benefit from Creed, particularly, in the secondc configuration, but except for the very largest games with lots of platoons spread over a great distance I think that there are better more efficient ways to get the extra orders and command radius. The free scout move is nice but once again I am having trouble seeing how it would be worth tacking an extra 90 points onto one of your command squads.

So what's the best way to go for company command? I always did bare bones before because I just wanted them for the LD. But now there's a lot of nice sounding toys and you can easily get the squad over 150 pts, the one I was planning was 180 with a medic, ordinance and 2 bodyguards.

My first plan was to have a platoon with 2 lascannon squads, and have my HQ nearby along with a comissar lord so that I could give my lascannons bring it down and have them count as twin linked, always rolling off the Commissar's LD 10 bubble. I would probably leave them behind and the rest of the platoon would go about their bidness. I also wanted to add some vets in chimeras so they can go out capture objectives, but things are getting real pricey real quick. I always do 2000 pt games, but still.

So whats a better way to go? cheapy HQ or price elite killing machine HQ?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:It's #4. Arrogance - GW believes the way THEY play is the way everyone should.

That means that one day when a [certain member of these boards] and GW have a disagreement, we'll finally see what immovable object/irresistible force actually looks like!

Are my ears burning, or is it really a Stalagmite in my pocket?

As for Cheap HQ vs Uber HQ, I say go for the 2 Cheap HQ's. Extra Redundancy and harder to kill tbh. Just remember to take Voxes with everything

yeah I do have all voxes, always modeled them that way for looks anyway.

I guess 2 cheapy HQ squads could work. But then, do we still get a LD bubble for our officers? Maybe I missed that part. The only reason I was going to take the commissar lord other than the cool model is so he can give his LD 10 to HW squads, but if they can use the company commander's LD also, then I'd just use that and skip the commissar. +1 LD isn't worth 70 pts to me.

No you cannot use the Ld of your officer anymore, but you have a Vet Sarge in each squad now, which mitigates it somewhat.

The voxes let you reroll the test for Orders, and there's no limits to commissars now, so you can buy one for each squad if you so wish, or go the sneaky route and buy 4 Squads with 2 Commissars and meld them together for Delicious 20 man LD 9 Stubborn Squads with a Handy Reroll should you fail that important morale check.

Well the whole thing is I wanted better LD for the heavy weapon squads not the regular infantry. Since the HW squads don't have sergeants and I don't think I can add a regular comissar to a HW squad, it looked like the only way to do that was with a Commissar lord's LD bubble

Necros wrote:Well the whole thing is I wanted better LD for the heavy weapon squads not the regular infantry. Since the HW squads don't have sergeants and I don't think I can add a regular comissar to a HW squad, it looked like the only way to do that was with a Commissar lord's LD bubble

You could always take a canoness with a book, that costs 20 points less than a commissar lord while having 3+ save over 5+, the ability to always use the unmodified ld 10, and gain 1 more initiative and better weapons options and faith powers.

Yeah sadly Heavy Weapons teams only have LD7 and cannot have a vox either. Best thing to do is use Colour Seargent Krell to have the tests done on the officers LD and not the squads.

that could work but then Krell is 85 pts but the comissar lord is 70, and I dunno if I'd have much else within the 12" order radlus. I was planning to keep the CCS and 2 LC squads back hiding somewhere, but all the other units running around. But then, for the 200 pts I had originally planned for 1 full HQ and a lord, I guess I could do krell in a bare bones CCS (does he replace a vet or get added on?) and then have a 2nd CCS moving around with the other troops.

Gwar! wrote:Yeah sadly Heavy Weapons teams only have LD7 and cannot have a vox either. Best thing to do is use Colour Seargent Krell to have the tests done on the officers LD and not the squads.

That seems like the only reason to take kell in my eyes, and if you're doing that might as well buy creed, LD10 tests are nice, especially if you've got a reroll around (in other squads of course).

I like the name of the special rule though "Listen up you maggots" Hurrah for fluff and rules combined!!! ...for once in this codex........

Edit: Dang beaten to the punch.....

ph34r wrote:You could always take a canoness with a book, that costs 20 points less than a commissar lord while having 3+ save over 5+, the ability to always use the unmodified ld 10, and gain 1 more initiative and better weapons options and faith powers.

There's no doubt that the Book Cannoness is better than the Commissar Lord. But I believe that both units abilities increase leadership for morale and pinning tests, and not leadership tests.

The test to understand orders is a leadership test, but it is neither a morale test nor a pinning test.

Another case of 3rd edition books+5th edition books (and rules)= Odd cases

Dave is correct. Morale and Pinning tests are a type of Leadership test, but a very specific type.

Dave47 wrote:

ph34r wrote:You could always take a canoness with a book, that costs 20 points less than a commissar lord while having 3+ save over 5+, the ability to always use the unmodified ld 10, and gain 1 more initiative and better weapons options and faith powers.

There's no doubt that the Book Cannoness is better than the Commissar Lord. But I believe that both units abilities increase leadership for morale and pinning tests, and not leadership tests.

The test to understand orders is a leadership test, but it is neither a morale test nor a pinning test.

Nice catch Dave. Canonss with book is morale and pinning...

Commissar lord is very specific, his rule says...

"...uses his leadership for morale tests, pinning tests, and leadership tests to receive orders."

Looks like comlord wins

Why not go for an epic combo of Creed, krell, Comilord and Chimera?

Cause thats way too many points....

And imagine the number of 5 point meat-shields ahem... Guardsmen... you can get for that!

Ciaphas-Cain wrote:Cause thats way too many points....

And imagine the number of 5 point meat-shields ahem... Guardsmen... you can get for that!

Better yet, Imagine the amount of 4 point MeatWhiteshields you can get for that

Uber HQ of too much squishy

Creed +90
Kell +85
Nork +110
Astropath +30
MoO +30
OotF +30
Medi-Pak Vet +30
2x plasma vets +30
Krak +5
Carapace +20
Camo +20

Commissar Yarrick +185

Ministorium Priest +45
eviscerator +15

by my count thats
creed
kell
nork counts as 2 people
3 vets
3 advisors
yarrick
priest
12 people.....which all fit into....

Chimera +55
extra armor +15
dozer blade +10

total pts: 805

everyone has FNP
20 wounds int he squad

i wanna play it just for fun one time.

Duuuuuude I want that squad LOL. If only to hit it with my own demolisher shell by accident