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Gwar! wrote:
And thinking even more about this, I think this might be a "GW BROKE THE RULES AGAIN" moment, as I cannot think of another unit that could have 2 different barrage weapons in the same unit at once (please correct me if I am wrong, it makes me all tingly inside).

You are right to get tingly...

Can see the next additions to my Guard army...A griffon and two Bombar...errr I mean Collosus'es.

Griffon will be called: Spot of Tea
Colossus #1 will be called: One Lump
Colossus #2 will be called: Or Two?

Having just come from the shitstorm that was on Warseer:

EMPERORS BOWELS INFANTRY SERGEANTS CANNOT TAKE LASGUNS ANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!

time to crack out the paints boys, as of May, all your Infantry Sergeants must have Laspistol and CCW. And you lose the lasgun from the heavy weapon team too! So you've gone from 9 Lasguns to 7. Thats 6 Shots (with orders) per squad per turn lost. That's pretty messed up.

not to mention all those people who have Lasgun Sergeants modelled who now have to crack out the clippers lest TFG go all nutty.

Gwar! wrote:Having just come from the shitstorm that was on Warseer:

EMPERORS BOWELS INFANTRY SERGEANTS CANNOT TAKE LASGUNS ANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!

time to crack out the paints boys, as of May, all your Infantry Sergeants must have Laspistol and CCW. And you lose the lasgun from the heavy weapon team too! So you've gone from 9 Lasguns to 7. Thats 6 Shots (with orders) per squad per turn lost. That's pretty messed up.

not to mention all those people who have Lasgun Sergeants modelled who now have to crack out the clippers lest TFG go all nutty.

We've been over this. I believe at least one poster informed us helpfully that complaining about that was simply nerdrage.

Seriously though, that's pretty lousy, although to be fair IG have only had the that options since the Black Codex in 1994, so it's hardly a surprise that GW would take it away arbitrarily.

Gwar! wrote:Having just come from the shitstorm that was on Warseer:

EMPERORS BOWELS INFANTRY SERGEANTS CANNOT TAKE LASGUNS ANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!

time to crack out the paints boys, as of May, all your Infantry Sergeants must have Laspistol and CCW. And you lose the lasgun from the heavy weapon team too! So you've gone from 9 Lasguns to 7. Thats 6 Shots (with orders) per squad per turn lost. That's pretty messed up.

not to mention all those people who have Lasgun Sergeants modelled who now have to crack out the clippers lest TFG go all nutty.

Edit: , ninja'd by Polonius. The cumulative effect really does hurt ordinary squads. It bothers me less because I'm using H.Vet. squads, whose sergeants can take a shotgun instead of CCW and laspistol. I don't expect to use a lot of FRFSRF orders. I do expect to use Bring it Down, Fire on My Target, and Get Back in the Fight. I'm also less bothered because I kept all of my CCW/laspistol sergeants on the shelf and simply made new sergeants with lasguns. They finally get a chance to see the light of day again for fun games and Apoc.

I can't help but wonder if Robin Cruddace is a fan of Turn Signals on a Land Raider. This IG Codex is looking a lot like the guard humor in that webcomic. All we need now is a sergeant (Cavendish?) with a WWI British 'dish' helmet, puttees, and a re-release of Praetorian infantrymen.

I was already using pistolero sergeants and heavy weapons lose one lasgun. No big deal tactically but I can understand why a lot of people would be pissed about the modeling.

On a related note, I recently noticed that rough rider sergeants can take plasma pistols but not bolt pistols. And of course I'm glad I abandoned the idea of converting stormbolters.

Creed, 2nd CCS in a chimera, Astropath
Orgyns in Chimera outflanking thanks to Creed, Stormies in Chimera outflanking
4 Vet squads with a mix of Lascannons, HB, GL, Flamers and Demo packs...forming the line
3 LRBT with LC / HB sponsons.

2000 pts.

Will I win a lot...probably not...but it fits the minis I own now and the theme of the army (all having BS4 execpt the tanks and orgyns), and I'll have a heck of a lot of fun.

Creed PLUS a Second CCS? That's just being Greedy

I would drop the Heavy Bolter Sponsons. I've never seen why people like them. You Can only fire one of them (cause they are not defensive any more) and you already have the lascannon. With the lumbering behemoth rule you can move 6" and still fire off your BC and LC, so the Heavy Bolters are a bit of a waste IMO.

Gwar! wrote:Creed PLUS a Second CCS? That's just being Greedy

I would drop the Heavy Bolter Sponsons. I've never seen why people like them. You Can only fire one of them (cause they are not defensive any more) and you already have the lascannon. With the lumbering behemoth rule you can move 6" and still fire off your BC and LC, so the Heavy Bolters are a bit of a waste IMO.

Yeah. I agree...but they are already on the models...so I'll take them. 66 models and 3 tanks...think my eldar army fields more at this many points...lol!

Are voxes really worth taking?

MikeK wrote:Are voxes really worth taking?

Most Certainly. I would bother getting into math-hammer but I actually cannot remember the % values. Just be sure that rerolling your Poor Ld is very very useful.

Gwar! wrote:Creed PLUS a Second CCS? That's just being Greedy

I would drop the Heavy Bolter Sponsons. I've never seen why people like them. You Can only fire one of them (cause they are not defensive any more) and you already have the lascannon. With the lumbering behemoth rule you can move 6" and still fire off your BC and LC, so the Heavy Bolters are a bit of a waste IMO.

Lumbering behemoth overrules the defensive thing you can move and still shoot the heavy bolters and battle cannon.

sonofruss wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Creed PLUS a Second CCS? That's just being Greedy

I would drop the Heavy Bolter Sponsons. I've never seen why people like them. You Can only fire one of them (cause they are not defensive any more) and you already have the lascannon. With the lumbering behemoth rule you can move 6" and still fire off your BC and LC, so the Heavy Bolters are a bit of a waste IMO.

Lumbering behemoth overrules the defensive thing you can move and still shoot the heavy bolters and battle cannon.

You misunderstand the what I was getting at.

You can Move 6" and Fire the Turret Plus One Main weapon and all Defensive (So either the LasCannon, the Hull Heavy Bolter or a Single Sponson Heavy Bolter).
You cant fire both sponsons as one weapon system

So Why bother taking the Heavy Bolters if you are gonna move and shoot the Battlecanon+Hull Mounted HB or LC, but unable to fire the Sponson heavy bolters

It kinda sucks to lose 2 lasguns per squad with the new srg and HW team rules, but at least I can model my sgts as being a bit more distinct/interesting now, because I have to

Gwar's right. The rule is worded quite specifically:

Lumbering Behemoth: A Leman Russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapon it is usually allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!). However, a Leman Russ travelling at crusing speed can only move D6+6" - roll every time it moves at this speed. - Codex: Arbitrary, Page 48

Emphasis mine. You can't move and fire Heavy Bolters normally, and this rule does not allow you to do that.

With all the cool stuff we'll be getting, I really feel kind of stupid for saying this, but here it goes anyway: Whoever wrote this codex should smack himself for making all sorts of arbitrary weapon limitations!
Sergeants can't take bolters or even lasguns (LASGUNS!) anymore? What's the reasoning behind that brilliant decision? My commander can't take a storm bolter. what is up with that? Seriously, It would have taken ten minutes tops to add a few entries in that would save cumulative days of conversion work for consumers. It's not really a huge deal, but I still find it inconsiderate and annoying. of course, with all this cool stuff they had to find a way to be a jerk somehow.

I'm also crying about the loss of master crafted plasma pistols. (at least I didn't notice any way to master craft weapons)

CplPunishment wrote:I'm also crying about the loss of master crafted plasma pistols. (at least I didn't notice any way to master craft weapons)

Nope, master crafting is now only for special characters

CplPunishment wrote:What's the reasoning behind that brilliant decision?

I think you'll find it's a combination of things, and none of them are malice-related.

1. Apathy - They don't care and/or it is simply not important to them.
2. Incompetence - They haven't realised that they made the change.
3. By Design - Not malice related, but they designed the rules to fit around the new Command Squad sprue, rather than the other way around, so no Storm Bolter on sprue = no Storm Bolter in CHQ.

Point 2 there is by far the most worrisome to me.

Do you mean officers exclusively, or are sergeants included?

Sergeants would fall into the "Number 2" category. Chances are Arby assumed that you had to build the Sergeants with LP/CCW because there weren't enough Lasguns on the sprue to do otherwise.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:What's the reasoning behind that brilliant decision?

I think you'll find it's a combination of things, and none of them are malice-related.

1. Apathy - They don't care and/or it is simply not important to them/
2. Incompetence - They haven't realised that they made the change.
3. By Design - Not malice related, but they designed the rules to fit around the new Command Squad sprue, rather than the other way around, so no Storm Bolter on sprue = no Storm Bolter in CHQ.

Point 2 there is by far the most worrisome to me.

Number two reminded me of something funny. There is a picture of a catachan wielding a bolter. The words underneath him say "Catachan Sergeant". The rules do not state bolters as an option for sergeants.
So I'm inclined to believe that number two is the case.

Oh, sorry for the confusion HBMC, but I was asking if only officers were considered special characters. I want to know if sergeants are included as well

I'm thinking that they either fuxxed up big time, or that its a clever way of counterbalancing the "First Rank Fire" order.

Yeeeeeah who honestly thinks its the second one?

One to two less las shots per squad? Yeah, that really makes up for it! hahaha

Gwar! wrote:Creed PLUS a Second CCS? That's just being Greedy

I would drop the Heavy Bolter Sponsons. I've never seen why people like them. You Can only fire one of them (cause they are not defensive any more) and you already have the lascannon. With the lumbering behemoth rule you can move 6" and still fire off your BC and LC, so the Heavy Bolters are a bit of a waste IMO.

Firing 3 heavy bolters and the battlecannon while stationary though adds a lot of firepower, and if the main gun goes bye-bye, you've still got an AV14 mobile heavy weapons squad. I'd never, ever take a Leman Russ without sponsons.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Sergeants would fall into the "Number 2" category. Chances are Arby assumed that you had to build the Sergeants with LP/CCW because there weren't enough Lasguns on the sprue to do otherwise.

I wonder if he's ever touched clippers and plastic glue?

CplPunishment wrote:One to two less las shots per squad? Yeah, that really makes up for it! hahaha

Well actually, you have gone from having 9 Lasguns + Heavy Weapon to having 6 Lasguns, a Las Pistol and a Heavy Weapon. So without orders, thats 5 Shots less per squad. Thats 25 a Platoon, over 3 Platoons thats 75 Shots gone. A Turn. Factor in orders and thats 135 Missing shots A TURN. 135 Lasbolts will feth up anythings day

Speaking of heavy weapons, what about those of us who do not keep both guardsmen on the same base? (the 90mm base is a nightmare!) Is it legal to have a two wound model represented with two separate bases?

CplPunishment wrote:Speaking of heavy weapons, what about those of us who do not keep both guardsmen on the same base? (the 90mm base is a nightmare!) Is it legal to have a two wound model represented with two separate bases?

No, it's not. You are going to have to either mount them on a single 60mm base (I suggest using Blue Tac or Magnets and having the loader as a removable wound counter) or not use them.

90mm base? WTF! What witchcraft is that!

oops
meant to say 60mm