Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If Guard take off in the tournament scene, it seems like the psyker squad will necessitate other players having some kind of psychic defense or risk the horrific effects of the squad.

1.) Pick nastiest assault squad the enemy has.
2.) Reduce leadership of said squad to 2.
3.) Hit it with pinning weapons (probably Basilisks or Griffions, but it's not that important), or do 25% casualties.
4.) Laugh

Seems like two psyker squads, in Chimeras, weakening the resolve of two squads/turn could one of those builds that gets sportsmanship tanked (I've been waiting for something like that for the Guard). It's not that many points, and it is potentially devastating. The laughter probably wouldn't help sportsmanship either.

middle wrote:Onwards to the next section. I know you've all got questions but they'll hopefully be in the section for that unit if you can bare to wait. Saves me writing things twice.

****snip****

Stormtroopers. 1+4 for 85 then 5 more at 16 each. Hotshot lasgun + hotshot laspistol + ccw + frag and krak each. No Targeters. Deepstrike. Chimera.

Sergeant can have a PW. Two can have SW. Didn't make a note of MBombs. Safe to assume the sergeant can at least because an inf squad sergeant can, and RR sergeant can ( but not his squad now ).

Pick a style for them. Recon: Scout and move through cover.

Airborne deployment. If DS then re-roll scatter.

Behind enemy lines. Inf and first time they shoot their weapons cause pinning. Even if you save it all game until the last turn or something bonkers like that.

Also: in the wargear section for hotshot lasguns '.... powerpacks make the lasguns more powerful. This allows the hellgun to shoot .... ' I think there was only two sentences and it mentions hellgun like it has been the only thing mentioned in the book so far.

Flavour text I know, but it is lasgun flavour.


_______________

Master of ordnance. His shooting is the earthshaker round just like a marine chapter master.

thanks for the info. so stormtroopers don't get an option for the vox? also, just to clear this comparison up, the master of ordanance gets to "fire" every round when stationary and not the once per game that the chapter master gets?

Fire every round even if 3D6 scatter if can't see is nasty for 30 points

Biophysic wrote:If Guard take off in the tournament scene, it seems like the psyker squad will necessitate other players having some kind of psychic defense or risk the horrific effects of the squad.

Doesn't Lash do that already? And doesn't help against things that are fearless, which are the nasty assault units. Not sure its something you want to build an army around, nice but not a power build because of reliability.

Gestalt wrote:

Biophysic wrote:If Guard take off in the tournament scene, it seems like the psyker squad will necessitate other players having some kind of psychic defense or risk the horrific effects of the squad.

Doesn't Lash do that already? And doesn't help against things that are fearless, which are the nasty assault units. Not sure its something you want to build an army around, nice but not a power build because of reliability.

The really nice thing about the psyker squad is that it offers anti-pskyer defense for the IG, within their own codex. Handy, that.

Gestalt wrote:

Biophysic wrote:If Guard take off in the tournament scene, it seems like the psyker squad will necessitate other players having some kind of psychic defense or risk the horrific effects of the squad.

Doesn't Lash do that already? And doesn't help against things that are fearless, which are the nasty assault units. Not sure its something you want to build an army around, nice but not a power build because of reliability.

Yes, I think you're somewhat correct, but I was thinking that the Psyker Battle Squad might be more difficult to defend against, as it has an extra 12" of range, meaning it is less susceptible to firepower based psychic defenses. Maybe I'm wrong.

Troops: Platoon. Platoon Command + 2-5 squads + 0-5 HWS + 0-2 SWS + 0-1 Conscript platoon.

PCS. 1+4 for 30. Same weapon options as for CCS except no regimental banner ( they get Platoon banner +1 combat res. If Only 4 ranks and a musician too. If only. ) and can not have carapace and camo cloaks. No advisors and no bodyguards. Commissar for 35
( obviously the Company Commander thinks highly of himself that he doesn't need a commissar for himself. That and he doesn't want to get shot. ). Chimera.

Al'Rahem. 70. 2 orders. 12" range ( a big reason to upgrade if nothing else is the extra orders and the range ). His WHOLE PLATOON MUST OUTFLANK, HWS and all.

Power sword that causes instant death.

Chenkov. 50. 2 orders. 12" range. Onwards you dogs!=Friendly's in 12" get stubborn. Next wave! Any conscripts in the army may have for 75 points the ability to remove them in your turn and they come on at the start of your next turn rule.

Infantry squad. 50. Commissar 35. Entire squad krak for 10. Sergeant MBombs 5. One SW. One HW team ( SW and HW costs are the same for CCS ). 'One other' vox5. Chimera

HWS. 60. Comes with mortars. Lasguns. Frags. HB/Auto 5. Missile 10. Lascannon 15. Krak 5 for the entire squad!!! ( now thats dedication for you. Your AT team brings kraks with them ). No Chimera. No vox.

Only 3 models in the squad. 2W each as with all HW teams now.

SWS. 35 for 6. 3 can choose to replace lasgun withFlamer/Grenadelauncher/sniper 5. Melta 10. Plasma 15. Demolition charge and keep your lasgun 20. Demo charge has no limit to how many in the squad / how many can fire each turn. Still one use only. No Chimera.

6" range with 2d6 scatter-3. x3 .You have been warned.

Conscripts. 80 for 20. Just lasguns and one ccw. 4 points each after that upto a cap of 50. EG: no more buying in tens, you may now have 49 if you feel the need / save a few points for a vox somewhere else. No SW / HW. No Chimera ( they wouldn't fit but that doesn't stop chaos marines. )

Vets. 70pts for a full 10. No 5-10 anymore makes me sad. Lasguns and frag + krak. 3SW and one HW. Can have shotguns for free. Same weapon costs as for everyone else but one of the Sw per squad may be a Heavy Flamer for 20. Chimera.

Sergeant POWER FIST 15. PW 10.

May have any of the following "Doctrines" ( The only time you'll hear it )for 30pts a time. ( all three if you must. )

Grenadiers - Carapace.

Forward sentries - stealth + snare mines ( Defensive grenades )

Demolitions - MBombs and one has a Demolition charge + his other normal kit.

Can replace the Vet sergeant with Harker. 55. Relentless with a Heavy Bolter ( him only ). Has FNP ( him only). He and his squad are Catachan Devils=Stealth and move through cover. May not have the Grenadiers "doctrine".

Can replace the Vet sergeant with Bastonne. 60. Hotshot pistol + PW + carapace ( him only). His squad can always regroup ' regardless of normal restrictions, IE: under half strength / enemy nearby. Cadian noble so he may issue orders like a Platoon Commander. Possibly no range on the orders though, i'll have to check. It could well be just his squad.

Penal legion. 80 for 1+9. Lasgun, ccw custodian has a pistol and no lasgun. Scouts. Stubborn.

1-2 = Gunslingers. Assault 2 lasguns.
3-4 = Psychopaths. Counter Attack, Fleet and Furious Charge.
5-6 = Knife fighters. +ccw and cc attacks are Rending. No rending lasguns.


Chimera. 55. MLaser + HBm, Searchlight and smoke launchers ( see 40k rulebook = 4+ cover )

MLaser for a HB / HF for free. HB for a HF for free. Pintle Stormbolter / Stubber 10. Hunter killer 10. Dozer 10. Extra armour 15.

Camo netting. EDIT: 20. Stealth if you stay still. So +1 cover save to your smoke if you don't move.

Amphibious. 5 fire points ( Stick whatever you've got out of them )

Mobile Command. May give orders from inside. Still can't receive orders if mounted in a vehicle even if it is a chimera. Measure order range from the hull.

EDIT: Camo netting is 20. Added it in.

Wait, so vets have no way of infiltrating?

middle wrote:Chimera.

Amphibious.

Well, that's a relief. I was afraid they'd nerf this!

Anyone else disappointed in the apparently arbitrary restrictions in the list? Priests would make Ogryns semi-useful. Naturally they don't work on Ogryns. Techpriests can't get Chimeras for no reason. Stormtroopers were overpriced, and are now even more overpriced. Powerfists cost 5 points more in this book than they do for Chaos Terminators. So many pointless decisions that it makes my head spin. Not that there isn't good in the book, but there is quite a bit of "what was Robin thinking" going on.

middle wrote:Grenadiers - Carapace.

Forward sentries - stealth + snare mines ( Defensive grenades )

Demolitions - MBombs and one has a Demolition charge + his other normal kit.

Can replace the Vet sergeant with Harker. 55. Relentless with a Heavy Bolter ( him only ). Has FNP ( him only). He and his squad are Catachan Devils=Stealth and move through cover. May not have the Grenadiers "doctrine".

Wait, so Harker and Forward Sentries provide Stealth, and neither provide Infiltrate or Outflank?

Also, thanks for doing this, middle!

OMG Yarrick ....T4 Reroll wounds Eternal Warrior stand back up on 3+, makes necons look weak....

I wonder what'd happen if you put Demo SWS in valks....nukes in a plane! (though it probably would hit oneself more often than not...but it'd be fun)

Wow, the special Vet Sgts are something of a steal. If Harker gives the squad a "doctrine" and has a heavy bolter, he only pays 20 points + cost of Sgt. for his FNP and Relentless, plus whatever other buffs he has.
I don't know about Bastonne, but he might be cool too, if not so much of a steal.

Wierd that HWS and SWS can't get chimeras, but otherwise isn't looking too bad!


Edit: Does Stealth USR allow for outflanking? I kind of thought it did, but I might be wrong.

I can't waits to model me up a Jesse Ventura-looking Sgt. Harker with a mini-gun HB. In fact, if I weren't a lousy painter and it weren't nearly the end of March already, I'd make myself up a Vet Squad looking like the cast of Predator for the Jungle Warfare contest!

Incredibly sorry. It's a massive difference but the Vets have CAMO CLOAKS and Not STEALTH. OOPS. Means +2 to cover saves marine style.

Nice catch MinMax.

And Death By Monkeys, ' Whats the matter? The CIA got you pushing too many pencils? ' and then he mows him down with a heavy bolter and then assaults him just because he can.

Wow, I am underwhelmed. A few things that really irk me.

60 points for a 3 model heavy weapon squad that will die to three multi-laser wounds?

No transports for heavy weapon or speacial weapon squads and on top of that no option to take a vox on the two units that could probably most benefit from one (and the two units I would consider buying a vox for since they can't start in a Chimera). Looks like my heavy weapons will be staying in 10 man line squads only.

Veterans 10 man only, 8 points apiece for penal legionaires, 16 points apiece for storm troopers. All pre-existing non-chimera vehicles more expensive?

Ogryns still pretty much useless.

Lots of arbitrary restrictions on what can take a comissar, what can take a power fist. It's almost like they took each frequently unused option from the current book and decided how it could best be used in the new book and then specifically forbid it from being used that way. Wow.

So basically it looks like all I will be buying new for my guard army will be some Griffons (probably from Ebay or some 2nd hand source) and maybe some more Chimeras. I was hoping I might be able to spice my list up a bit more than that, very disappointing.

middle wrote:Can replace the Vet sergeant with Harker. 55. Relentless with a Heavy Bolter ( him only ).

So what you're saying is we get Ox(who was already conveniently sculpted to look like a Catachan) back, but not any of the OTHER Last Chancers(even Schaeffer)?

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if when they "release" Harker, it's just the Ox mini.

Scottywan82 wrote:Wait, so vets have no way of infiltrating?

Second that. WTF? So correct me if I am wrong, only the Space Hobbits and the Glory Boys have Infiltrate now in a Guard army? Oh boy. My regiments fluff and doctrine seems to going down the toilet. Drop Troops + Light Infantry gives me a highly thematic airborne regiment that I enjoy playing. I can retain the Drop Troop- theme by shoveling a big pile of cash for the new fancy transports but thats it apparently .

middle wrote:
Mobile Command. May give orders from inside. Still can't receive orders if mounted in a vehicle even if it is a chimera. Measure order range from the hull.

Do all chimera have this? A rumor said only one for CHQ or something.

Gestalt wrote:

middle wrote:
Mobile Command. May give orders from inside. Still can't receive orders if mounted in a vehicle even if it is a chimera. Measure order range from the hull.

Do all chimera have this? A rumor said only one for CHQ or something.

Nope, all Chimera have it.

I think they all have mobile command, but only command squads can use it, really...

tomguycot wrote:Veterans 10 man only, 8 points apiece for conscripts, 16 points apiece for storm troopers. All pre-existing non-chimera vehicles more expensive?

4 points a piece for conscripts. They're 20 for 80 points, not 10. I still doubt I'd take them, though.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

tomguycot wrote:Veterans 10 man only, 8 points apiece for conscripts, 16 points apiece for storm troopers. All pre-existing non-chimera vehicles more expensive?

4 points a piece for conscripts. They're 20 for 80 points, not 10. I still doubt I'd take them, though.

Oops, I mean the penal legionaires. I will edit the above post.

Not even with a priest attached? Would love to swamp over some poor donkey-cave's unit with unwashed conscripts...

Death By Monkeys wrote:

tomguycot wrote:Veterans 10 man only, 8 points apiece for conscripts, 16 points apiece for storm troopers. All pre-existing non-chimera vehicles more expensive?

4 points a piece for conscripts. They're 20 for 80 points, not 10. I still doubt I'd take them, though.

They can be leadership 10 stubborn if you attach a commissar lord. That is basically gaunt + conscripts but buffed (no "no retreat" wounds)

Seems like its the best or one of the best tarpits in 40k.

Not really my style to run tarpits... but as long as you can physically keep bodies around the commissar, then its not falling back, and its not crumbling.

middle wrote:Ratlings. 30 for 3. 7 moer at 10 each. Laspistols. Inf and stealth.

Slightly cheaper than before. Shame about the Ld6.

Psyker battle squad. Missed out earlier at the start of the thread, Weaken Resolve. 36" Enemy Ld is reduced by the number of psykers in the squad. So full 1+9 squad = -9 Ld ( down to a minimum of Ld2 [ See Storm troopers: Behind enemy lines. You'll like it ] ).

Plus the large blast Ap d6 S=number of psykers. Chimera. Pick one to be the caster for LoS purposes.

Depending on the cost that could be really scary. Can you move and use Weaken Resolve? Nice to hear confirmation that you can get the entire squad's strength through the Chimera's sunroof.

Only with Chenkov. And then only if I could max the army with them. And that would mean I would have to paint waaaaaay more minis than I want to.

And add Chenkov and you can refresh the unit, too.

Just keep a priest in reserve, so to speak, lol

No transports for heavy weapon or speacial weapon squads and on top of that no option to take a vox on the two units that could probably most benefit from one (and the two units I would consider buying a vox for since they can't start in a Chimera).

SWS teams can take a vox. Additionally, your squads can "borrow" transports from other units.

Looks like my heavy weapons will be staying in 10 man line squads only.

Looks like my HWS will be shooting out of the 5 fire points of some other units chimera.

Veterans 10 man only

Yeah, but they score...and they have access to PF's

8 points apiece for conscripts

Conscripts are only 4pts a piece.

16 points apiece for storm troopers.

Meh. Jury is still out on them. Some of the combos you can do with them and some of your orders has me thinking though.

All pre-existing non-chimera vehicles more expensive?

Basic russes are only 10pts more, but gain Lumbering Behemoth...well worth the 10pt increase.

Capt K

tomguycot wrote:60 points for a 3 model heavy weapon squad that will die to three multi-laser wounds?

Yes I did say that.

middle wrote:Only 3 models in the squad.

However the next sentence says:

middle wrote:2W each as with all HW teams now.

And conscripts are 4pts.

Gestalt: All Chimera have it.

Scottywan82: Yeah vets get no inf. But then again they are troops now, part of the battle line like a real man.