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middle wrote:

tomguycot wrote:60 points for a 3 model heavy weapon squad that will die to three multi-laser wounds?

Yes I did say that.

middle wrote:Only 3 models in the squad.

However the next sentence says:

middle wrote:2W each as with all HW teams now.

And conscripts are 4pts.

Gestalt: All Chimera have it.

Yes, they might as well have 100 wounds because 3 multilaser shots will still kill all three due to instant death.

Edit: double post

Fast Attack. Scout sentinel. 35. 1-3. Open topped, Scouts, Move through cover. MLaser. HF / Auto5. Missile launcher 10. Lascannon 15. Searchlight 1. Hkiller 10. Entire squad: SMoke launchers for 5 per model. Camo netting for 10 per model.

Armoured sentinel. 55. 1-3. Mlaser. Extra armour. Same weapon costs and also a PC for 20. Same upgrades. ( So Camo PC's / LC in a wood you say? 3+ cover save you say? Hard to shift you say? Unless you are fighting guard and then they just order you out of the cover while they shoot you and then you can walk back in when they're done with you. )

Rough Riders with S5 I5 Power weapons on the charge. 1+4 for 55. +5 at 10 each. ( Cheaper ? ). All have Hunting lances = S5 I5 Power weapons on the charge. MUST USE IN FIRST CHARGE. Pistol or CCW (your choice - I know which i'm having ). Frag+krak. Sergeant may have Mbombs 5. PW 10. One may have Flamer/Grenadelauncher 5. Melta 10. Plasma 15.

Mogul Kamir. 40. Replaces sergeant. Squad has rage. He has +D3+1 attacks on the charge.

Hellhounds. 1-3 any combo. HH 130 with Inferno cannon. DD 120 with Melta cannon. BW 130 with chem cannon. All have a hull HB. HB may be a HF for free. HB may be a MultiMelta for 15. ( Uber ). Searchlight 1. SB / HS 10. HK 10. Extra armour 15. Entire Squadron: Smoke 5 per model. Camo netting 20 per model.

( Insert sound effects here )

Valkrie. 1-3. 100 bang on. transport 12. No Ogryns ( They don't like the dark and i'm guessing they don't like flying either. ). MLAser. 2 Hellstrikes ( S8 Ap3 Ordnance. NO blast. One use only ). Searchlight. Extra armour. DeepStrike. Scout. MLaser can be a lascannon for 15. Swap both Hellstrikes for 2 multiple missile pods 30pts ( S4 Ap6 Heavy 1 Large blast ). +Pair of "sponson" HB's 10.

( I can not remember who asked but there are NO Vendetta parts in the Valkrie box )


Vendetta. 1-3. 130. Transport 12. No Ogryns. 3 TL Lascannon. Searchlight. Extra armour. Deepstrike. Scout. Can swap 2 TL Lascannons for 2 Hellfury missiles EDIT: for free ( S4 Ap5 large blast. ). +Pair of "sponson" HB's 10.

Why god did they have the PW and PF for the Vet Squad so hellaciously over priced?

Its like they decided to point out the Book in a complete vacuum, which while some things _should_ be priced according to their value in the codex itself. There's also effectiveness and usability they seem to have overlooked completely. 15pts for a PF? really? 10pts, sure...

Argh. So many good things, and so many little terrible things that annoy me.

Don't get me wrong - I believe that conscripts have a good place and could be very useful. Just not in my army. I think if you go for a very infantry heavy army then conscripts is a good way to go. I just don't know how I'd balance them with armor.

tomguycot: I see your point. Sorry just thought you'd missed the 2W bit and was in the middle of writing the FA while looking for questions.

middle wrote:( I can not remember who asked but there are NO Vendetta parts in the Valkrie box )

Vendetta. 1-3. 130. Transport 12. No Ogryns. 3 TL Lascannon. Searchlight. Extra armour. Deepstrike. Scout. Can swap 2 TL Lascannons for 2 Hellfury missiles EDIT: for free ( S4 Ap5 large blast. ). +Pair of "sponson" HB's 10.

Thanks for the continuing excellent rundown middle. Just a question - did you see any pics of the Vendetta (model, art or diagram). Just curious where and how the LC's mounts might be 'officially'.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Don't get me wrong - I believe that conscripts have a good place and could be very useful. Just not in my army. I think if you go for a very infantry heavy army then conscripts is a good way to go. I just don't know how I'd balance them with armor.

Lots of ordinance! Blast away dammit! Who cares if some of them die?

I'd love to tarpit with those and then rain ordinance down on them and my enemy indiscriminately and THEN refresh them using Chenkov's rule. SO sweet....

then I guess some Vets in Valks to grab objectives after that?

middle wrote:Hellhounds... HB may be a HF for free. HB may be a MultiMelta for 15. ( Uber ).

Wow, first I've heard of that. Interesting.

middle wrote:Valkrie. 1-3. 100 bang on. transport 12. No Ogryns ( They don't like the dark and i'm guessing they don't like flying either. ).

It's a B.A. Baracus thing.

middle wrote:Vendetta. 1-3. 130. Transport 12. No Ogryns. 3 TL Lascannon. Searchlight. Extra armour. Deepstrike. Scout. Can swap 2 TL Lascannons for 2 Hellfury missiles EDIT: for free ( S4 Ap5 large blast. ). +Pair of "sponson" HB's 10.

Okay, we've postulated that this is just silly, but now we have confirmation that it's silly. Damn, dude. 3 TL Lascannons for 130 points. And because the TL Lascannons can be replaced by Hellfury missiles, you can bet that the conversion is a simple wing-mount of the TL lascannons. Nice and easy. We're going to be seeing a lot of these bad boys. Say hello to the broken model of the new codex.

The Vendetta... 3 lascannon shots + 6 HB shots for 140pts.
Hrm. I can't argue with that at all. Damn nice.
Edit: ARM12, right? As long as you bring additional Armor, your opponent won't know what to shoot at.

I'm saddened by the amount of "not for Ogryns" exceptions in the book.

- Commissars: Not for Ogryns
- Valkyries: Not for Ogryns.
- Priests: Not for Ogryns.

It's like they're being forced to wear yellow armbands.

Yes, they might as well have 100 wounds because 3 multilaser shots will still kill all three due to instant death.

But will be hard to kill with a 2+ possible cover save.

Capt K

Sorry if someone else has already posted this already, but does anyone KNOW if Platoon Drill is in there?


-A.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm saddened by the amount of "not for Ogryns" exceptions in the book.

- Commissars: Not for Ogryns
- Valkyries: Not for Ogryns.
- Priests: Not for Ogryns.

It's like they're being forced to wear yellow armbands.

They are the sneetches without stars of the IG Codex.

Oh hey, middle - one thing I've noticed missing both from your write up as well as the other detailed rumors I've seen lately: Track Guards for vehicles. Are these no longer available? I mean, they're a cheap way to keep from getting the Immobilised=Destroyed result in squadrons which is what everyone wants. Thusly, GW does not offer them. Even for an exorbitant price.

It's like they are trying as hard as possible to make us not want them.

did they remove the rule for hunting lances about not being able to use an additional CC weapon?

Vendetta. 1-3. 130. Transport 12. No Ogryns. 3 TL Lascannon. Searchlight. Extra armour. Deepstrike. Scout. Can swap 2 TL Lascannons for 2 Hellfury missiles EDIT: for free ( S4 Ap5 large blast. ). +Pair of "sponson" HB's 10.

Wow, this seems worse than lootas for pricing. Thats just... Well 50 points less than it should be.

Funny how the vendetta with missile pods and a nose TL lascanon is cheaper then the valk with a nose regular lascanon and missile pods. This single fast attack entry ruins this book. The vendetta is too good, and by an idiotic margin.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Vendetta. 1-3. 130. Transport 12. No Ogryns. 3 TL Lascannon. Searchlight. Extra armour. Deepstrike. Scout. Can swap 2 TL Lascannons for 2 Hellfury missiles EDIT: for free ( S4 Ap5 large blast. ). +Pair of "sponson" HB's 10.

Wow, this seems worse than lootas for pricing. Thats just... Well 50 points less than it should be.

Funny how the vendetta with missile pods and a nose TL lascanon is cheaper then the valk with a nose regular lascanon and missile pods. This single fast attack entry ruins this book.

Yep. The Vendetta is at least 50 points less than it should be.

@middle - can we assume that Valks and Vendettas are Skimmers and Fast?

So, wait. It's actually 17 points for the first 5 STs. 16 points per ST if you take more after that, right? And that can't be because of the Sarge, there's no benefit is there?

ShumaGorath wrote:Funny how the vendetta with missile pods and a nose TL lascanon is cheaper then the valk with a nose regular lascanon and missile pods. This single fast attack entry ruins this book. The vendetta is too good, and by an idiotic margin.

Vendetta can't be upgraded to take missile pods, only Hellfury missiles.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Vendetta. 1-3. 130. Transport 12. No Ogryns. 3 TL Lascannon. Searchlight. Extra armour. Deepstrike. Scout. Can swap 2 TL Lascannons for 2 Hellfury missiles EDIT: for free ( S4 Ap5 large blast. ). +Pair of "sponson" HB's 10.

Wow, this seems worse than lootas for pricing. Thats just... Well 50 points less than it should be.

Funny how the vendetta with missile pods and a nose TL lascanon is cheaper then the valk with a nose regular lascanon and missile pods. This single fast attack entry ruins this book. The vendetta is too good, and by an idiotic margin.

Hey, look on the bright side. GW should sell a truck load.

Vendetta is cheaper than a Lascannon Squad in a Chimera, cheaper than 3 Scouting Sentinals with Lascannons, much better than both. Way to sell a new kit!

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm saddened by the amount of "not for Ogryns" exceptions in the book.

- Commissars: Not for Ogryns
- Valkyries: Not for Ogryns.
- Priests: Not for Ogryns.

It's like they're being forced to wear yellow armbands.

Aww. I think an Ogryn Commissar (converted out of the Ogre Kingdoms plastics and lots of greenstuff) would be an awesome model. Maybe I'll make one in 6th ed.

Her Majesty's Buxom Commissar wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Funny how the vendetta with missile pods and a nose TL lascanon is cheaper then the valk with a nose regular lascanon and missile pods. This single fast attack entry ruins this book. The vendetta is too good, and by an idiotic margin.

Vendetta can't be upgraded to take missile pods, only Hellfury missiles.

Then what is the str 4 large blast he mentioned? Or is that the hellfury missiles stats? Why would you ever switch to a one shot missile with stats like that...? Not that it means much, nothing is going to survive 9 TL lascanons (as one god damn killpoint) and after that they get to zoom around tank shocking everything on the table at the same time.

The first time I see someone put nine of these down across from me I'll punch them. This thing is now the single most underpriced model in this game.

Vendetta is cheaper than a Lascannon Squad in a Chimera, cheaper than 3 Scouting Sentinals with Lascannons, much better than both. Way to sell a new kit!

You can't even make this with the kit! Christ this games designers are stupid. It's like they just have a bunch of drunk monkeys slapping keyboards and screaming in the back of their offices. I could do a better job than this in my sleep.

Why would you ever bring a Valk when for 30 more points you exchange a Multi-Laser & 2 Rockets for three TL-Lascannons?

And on that thought, why would you ever bring a Valk, period, when it's 100 points and two of its main weapons can only be ever used once.

And I think Johnathan Crudance just got his nickname:

"Arbitrary", or perhaps just "Arby". This book seems to be so full of restrictions that just don't make sense (no Chimera for SWS for... some reason, no Power Fists for Commissars despite there being models with Power Fists, no one can join Ogryn because... uhh... just because!!).

And 75 point Plasma Sentinels? feth off. Yeah the AV12 is nice... but 75 points? Come on...

And 'Doctrines' in Vet squads for 30 points per squad? That's insane. The prices in this Codex just seem so completely out of whack, almost like Arby made all the squads cheaper, then freaked out that it was too powerful, so made all the upgrades negate the cheapness of the squads.

ShumaGorath wrote:You can't even make this with the kit! Christ this games designers are stupid.

Proving that the Vendetta was a complete afterthought made well after the kit had been finalised. *sigh* I'm thinking a few of the things in this Codex will be an 'after the fact' affair.

ShumaGorath wrote:Then what is the str 4 large blast he mentioned? Or is that the hellfury missiles stats? Why would you ever switch to a one shot missile with stats like that...? Not that it means much, nothing is going to survive 9 TL lascanons (as one god damn killpoint) and after that they get to zoom around tank shocking everything on the table at the same time.

Yup, that's the Hellfury.

So what's the armour on a Vendetta?

And 75 point Plasma Sentinels? feth off. Yeah the AV12 is nice... but 75 points? Come on...

And 'Doctrines' in Vet squads for 30 points per squad? That's insane. The prices in this Codex just seem so completely out of whack, almost like Arby made all the squads cheaper, then freaked out that it was too powerful, so made all the upgrades negate the cheapness of the squads.

I pay twice that for a dread with a single plasmacanon, it's not that bad. Same frontal armor and you get two plasma shots vs my close combat ability.

I agree though, the restrictions and pricing in this book are non sensical. I mean, this is going to be a power book for certain given some of its builds and the prices of a few of its units (base infantry, LRBT, vendettas, vets, penal legions) but it's immensely bi polar. How can ogryns be that bad and the vendetta be that good in the same damn book? Its like the chaos codexes badly playtested special abilities and units mixed with the undercosting of the ork book.

So what's the armour on a Vendetta?

12/12/10